http://s9.zetaboards.com/sasquatchwatch/topic/7010809/1/#new

Name of witnesses: McKenzie & Kyle
Date of sighting: Monday January 19, 2009
Location: Nokesville, VA
Time: Approx 10:30 pm
Near intersection of Owls Nest Rd & Fox Hound

On the date above, the two mentioned witnesses observed what appeared to be a large, hairy bipedal creature in the middle of Owls Nest Road. The witnesses were in an automobile immediately behind a red Dodge Dakota at the time of the sighting. The truck was in front of them and in closer view of the creature. As both vehicles came to a sudden stop, the creature walked backwards back into a small patch of pines alongside the road. According to the witnesses, the creature was approximately 7 feet in height and brownish red in color. After a few minutes, the witnesses returned to the area to find the red Dodge Dakota at the intersection. They pulled up beside the truck and spoke to the gentleman inside. When they asked him if he saw that and what was it...he responded, I have no idea, I think it was Bigfoot. The gentleman in the truck was aiming is headlights in the area the creature retreated.

The next morning, Sasquatch Watch investigator Charlie Polizzi visited the site and found the area to be a low lying area with some thick pines/cedars and a small creek. That same afternoon, Sasquatch Watch investigator Billy Willard arrived on the site with one of the witnesses to learn the exact location of the sighting. The sighting location occurred right at the intersection of Owls Nest Rd and Fox Hound. The creature, when seen, back up and retreated to the north side of Owls Nest Rd according to the witness. The area was investigation and Billy Willard discovered a small pile of feces which turned out to be dog feces. On the south side of Owls Nest, a clump of black and white hair was discovered. This hair turned out to be skunk hair. No other observations or evidence was discovered.

Both witnesses are upstanding members of Nokesville and were very sincere about their encounter.

Sasquatch Watch of VA will attempt to locate the owner of the red Dodge Dakota since they had a closer look at the creature. If anything further information is gathered, we will update this page.

Name: Bob
Date of Sighting: November 10, 2008
Location: Catharpin, VA
Time: 6:20 am.
Location: Side yard of the house

I came out of the house and turned to get into the van and saw a Sasquatch walk across the neighbors yard toward the woods. I would guess he/she was 8 foot tall 400 pound reddish brown hair pointed head. No smell or sounds noticed. It acted as if I was not there but was moving like I startled it.

Were there any other witnesses?:
no

Is there anything you would like to add?:
Wife has heard something around the outside of the house

Sasquatch Watch of VA is currently investigating this sighting. (As of Nov 2008)

Investigation Report submitted by Charlie Polizzi (Sasquatch Watch of VA Investigator)

Investigators: Billy Willard and Charlie Polizzi

Date of Investigation: 11/22/2008

On 11/22/2008 this Investigator and Investigator Billy Willard responded to an address in Catharpin, VA for an Investigation of a reported sighting. The Complainants last name and address will be kept confidential at this time as the investigation is ongoing.

The Complainant advised that at 06:15 a.m. on 11/10/2008 he was walking out to his vehicle which was parked in front of his residence when he observed a reddish brown figure approximately 7 feet tall, covered with hair walking on two legs across the yard. The distance was about 90 feet. The Complainant did not detect any odor nor did he make eye contact with the creature. The Complainant lost sight of it after it walked behind some bushes and trees.

The Complainant has not heard any vocalizations or tree knockings.

The area consisted of a small field with waist high grass which leads to a sloping hillside covered in dense pine trees. The hillside slopes to a small stream valley. There were numerous game trails throughout the wooded area (presumably deer trails).

No tracks were found due to the hardness of the ground.

Two noteworthy things were discovered during the investigation. Two tree branches were found broken at the site where the Complainant said he saw the creature and the remains of what appeared to be a chicken or duck were discovered at the edge of the field where it turns into woods.

This investigation will remain active.

Name: Billy Willard
Date of Sighting: June 23, 2006
Location: Prince William Forest Park on Rt. 619
Time: 9:40 pm.

On Friday June 23, 2006, I was driving northwest on Rt. 619 (Joplin Road) that passes between Prince William Forest Park and the Quantico Marine Base. The time was 9:40 pm. As I executed a curve to the right, I came across a large bipedal creature heading into the woods. The creature was within 30-50 feet of my vehicle. I first saw the creature at the white solid line on the right side of the highway. The legs were VERY large, probably the size of my waist. I saw what appeared to be skin on the bottom of the feet as the creature quickly made its way into the woods and off the highway. The hair was black and pretty long and shaggy looking. The animal moved with an extreme amount of speed. My sighting lasted for about 2-3 seconds. The creature entered into the Prince William Forest Park area. I stopped immediately and shined a flashlight into the woods and saw nothing.

Seriously?

Makes you wonder if any of the park rangers at the battlefield have ever seen anything there.

Makes you wonder Wrote:
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> Makes you wonder if any of the park rangers at the
> battlefield have ever seen anything there.


If you mean at Manassas National Battlefield Park, no. None of us has seen any Bigfoot (Bigfoots? Bigfeets? Bigfootses?) There has been some park visitors from Jersey that could pass for one but...nope. Bear, coyote, fox, deer etc. etc. yes, plenty of the regular critters.

NPS says... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Makes you wonder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Makes you wonder if any of the park rangers at
> the
> > battlefield have ever seen anything there.
>
>
> If you mean at Manassas National Battlefield Park,
> no. None of us has seen any Bigfoot (Bigfoots?
> Bigfeets? Bigfootses?) There has been some park
> visitors from Jersey that could pass for one
> but...nope. Bear, coyote, fox, deer etc. etc. yes,
> plenty of the regular critters.

Have you seen any of those chulpacabras? They're a mangy looking critter known to frequent Taco Bell and other areas with significant locust populations.

Stop the childish delusions, Billy.

It's all the right-wing assholes know. Without stupid, they've got nothing.

NPS says... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Makes you wonder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Makes you wonder if any of the park rangers at
> the
> > battlefield have ever seen anything there.
>
>
> If you mean at Manassas National Battlefield Park,
> no. None of us has seen any Bigfoot (Bigfoots?
> Bigfeets? Bigfootses?) There has been some park
> visitors from Jersey that could pass for one
> but...nope. Bear, coyote, fox, deer etc. etc. yes,
> plenty of the regular critters.

Bear? What do you guys do if you see a bear out there near one of the monuments or the cannons? Do you shoo them off or just watch?

Has anyone verified if this was actually a black person that escaped from Triangle or Woodbridge.

I find it suspicious that the thing was eating chicken. If watermelon seeds were found too……..

BradtheWhiteGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone verified if this was actually a black
> person that escaped from Triangle or Woodbridge.
>
> I find it suspicious that the thing was eating
> chicken. If watermelon seeds were found
> too……..


kinda like the pale guy who sees the light and gets all members of his congregation killed in a gun fight with atf because hey he is the new jesus.

or

maybe the white guy who takes his congregation to chile to poison themselves.

or no how bout the white who flooded america with cocaine because hey the spanish wasnt smart nor sophisticated enough to deal drugs properly so they need massa white man to step in and shit on this country because hey whitey is so smart he's dumb.

Food for thought.

Stop hating

The Story of Boojum and Hootin' Annie
http://www.northcarolinaghosts.com/mountains/boojum-hootin-annie.php

Eagle Nest Mountain stands at the southern edge of the Balsam mountain range and was once home to the luxurious Eagle Nest Hotel, built in 1900 by a Mr. S.C. Satterthwait of Waynesville. Guests at the hotel soon began to hear the story of a strange creature who lived in the area. The thing was not quite a man and not quite an animal — it stood about eight feet tall and every inch of its body was covered with shaggy grey hair, except for its human face. The creature was named Boojum, and he seemed to be harmless enough, but he did have two all-too human habits.

The first of these was the Boojum was greedy and he loved to hoard gems. Rubies and emeralds are found naturally throughout the mountains of North Carolina, and Boojum loved to hunt for these pretty, precious stones and hide them away in his own treasure hoards. Being a thrifty mountain type, he would scoop up the discarded liquor jugs thrown away by tourists and fill these with his gems. He would then bury them in one of the secret caves on the mountain that only he knew the whereabouts of.

Boojum's second habit that made him a little more man than animal was that he loved to look at pretty girls. Back in those days, a young woman who wanted to have a bath might head off into the woods to find a secluded bond at the base of a waterfall. There, safe from human eyes, she could strip down to her naturalness and go about getting herself clean. But Boojum seemed to have some kind of sense about what was going on, and a young woman enjoying herself in the water would often hear a rustle in the bushes and look up to see his hairy face peering down at her.

Now, most of these girls would quickly gather up their clothes and run off back home as soon as they saw him. But one young woman named Annie was braver than most, and one day when she was bathing in a stream deep in the balsam groves on Eagle Nest, she looked up and saw Boojum staring down at her. But Annie didn't run, in fact, she looked into Boojum's sorrowful eyes and saw that above all else he was just another lonely soul living on the mountain. Annie fell in love with those sad eyes, and she fell in love with Boojum, and she left her home and her family to go and live with Boojum deep in the mountain woods as his wife.

As much as Boojum loved Annie, and as much as Annie loved Boojum, Boojum still hung on to his love of jewels. On certain nights, he would leave his bride alone and go searching for jewels on the mountain. Annie, growing lonely, would go out in search of Boojum, and she developed a peculiar holler, something that sounded like a cross between a monkey and a hooting owl, that she would use to call out to Boojum. Boojum would use the same cry to call back to her, and eventually the two calls would come closer together until they came together on the hills.

Annie and Boojum calling to each other was often heard by guests at the Eagle Nest Hotel. Folklorist John Parris has said that Annie's owl-like holler was the source of the term "Hootenanny," which appeared in the language around the turn of the twentieth century and meant any kind of party or get-together. It was in the 1960s when the term was introduced to the wider public by Pete Seeger and Woodie Guthrie that it came to mean specifically a gathering of folk musicians.

That Annie's approach to encountering a giant shaggy beast was to marry him is testament to the well-known friendliness of North Carolinians. It may be that Annie and Boojum had children. for occasionally, even to this day, a shaggy, ape-like creature is seen in the balsam groves of Haywood County.

As much as I find this subject to be at least interesting, I don't see how something like Bigfoot could live out there. Other than deer, rabbits, and raccoons (and maybe fish) how could it possibly survive?

7UcuC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As much as I find this subject to be at least
> interesting, I don't see how something like
> Bigfoot could live out there. Other than deer,
> rabbits, and raccoons (and maybe fish) how could
> it possibly survive?

Isn't that how the American settlers lived in the wild....on deer, rabbits, fish, berries, etc? IF it is there, then it is there. If I wanted to live in the woods and not been seen, you wont see me either. You never know. We know there are thousands of bears in VA but if you go looking for one, you might never see one. So if Bigfoot exists (and it is intelligent) and doesn't want to be seen, you wont see it. Watch A&E, there are thousands of sightings each year nationwide. Some are on video. But I guess all of them are liars.

Im a bigfoot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 7UcuC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As much as I find this subject to be at least
> > interesting, I don't see how something like
> > Bigfoot could live out there. Other than deer,
> > rabbits, and raccoons (and maybe fish) how
> could
> > it possibly survive?
>
> Isn't that how the American settlers lived in the
> wild....on deer, rabbits, fish, berries, etc? IF
> it is there, then it is there. If I wanted to
> live in the woods and not been seen, you wont see
> me either. You never know. We know there are
> thousands of bears in VA but if you go looking for
> one, you might never see one. So if Bigfoot
> exists (and it is intelligent) and doesn't want to
> be seen, you wont see it. Watch A&E, there are
> thousands of sightings each year nationwide. Some
> are on video. But I guess all of them are liars.

Well that's a good point too. I just wish more of them were around to be seen if they exist. I've read old stories of Bigfoot attacks or where they've run off with indian women. I also noticed that there are alot of missing people in my area and I start to wonder...Did they runaway or did something get them?

Oh Please,
If there were "bigfoots" roaming around NoVA, surely at least one would have been hit by a car by now.

How come no credible person ever sees a "Bigfoot", a ghost, god or an Alien ? It is always some stupid Bubba with something to gain by the sighting.

Like an honest politician, it it just a myth for gulible people.....

>How come no credible person ever sees a "Bigfoot", a ghost, god or an Alien ?

I wonder if this is a 'first world' thing. I've had occasion to swap stories with folks in Africa about such things and they were adamant that bigfoots and aliens sound like hilarious nonsense to them. They were especially ticked that many of my folk believe little people come from the sky and visit them at night - who'd believe such crap? This although ghosts sounded perfectly reasonable to them, although seeing one sounded creepy even to folks wholly used to the notion of asking their dead relatives for help and advice. They were surprised to hear that curses, magic, and healing powers are apparently absent in america.

I tried google search of dead bigfoots awhile back. There are lots of stories going back decades of reputable people making statements of seeing bigfoots fighting each other, burying another bigfoot, hunters getting into a firefight with bigfoots and all in the party having their heads ripped off except one witness who escaped. Most of the dead bigfoot bodies stories have the witnesses saying that they called the gov't and the gov't threatened them and carted away the bodies. Try the search yourself.

Here is one. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread860318/pg1

Well, people told me that ghosts and UFO's don't exist and yet I have lived in a haunted house and seen a UFO up close. That doesn't mean I'm skeptical, but when it comes to Bigfoot, I think we've got it all wrong about them (if they exist at all). Maybe they aren't these animals we think they are.

I've seen some strange shit too, yXMFU, but never a UFO up close - wanna tell us the story? Here's as good a thread as any.

There's a school of thought in the bigfoot lore that they are in fact aliens themselves, or transdimentional beings of some sort. There're reports from abductees of meeting bigfoots on UFOs, which are (amusingly) ignored by both the bigfoot guys and the UFO guys as simply too crackpot to be true.

It is true though, I think, that if these were simply large primates we'd find signs of them everywhere. Thing that big's gotta eat, and shit, and move about. I've spent time in a place with actual large predators moving around who are incredibly stealthy but even so, when they're around, everyone knows. Something as big as a bigfoot would leave traces a blind man could find, traces that'd be pretty much impossible to conceal.

abelard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've seen some strange shit too, yXMFU, but
> never a UFO up close - wanna tell us the story?
> Here's as good a thread as any.
>
> There's a school of thought in the bigfoot lore
> that they are in fact aliens themselves, or
> transdimentional beings of some sort. There're
> reports from abductees of meeting bigfoots on
> UFOs, which are (amusingly) ignored by both the
> bigfoot guys and the UFO guys as simply too
> crackpot to be true.
>
> It is true though, I think, that if these were
> simply large primates we'd find signs of them
> everywhere. Thing that big's gotta eat, and shit,
> and move about. I've spent time in a place with
> actual large predators moving around who are
> incredibly stealthy but even so, when they're
> around, everyone knows. Something as big as a
> bigfoot would leave traces a blind man could find,
> traces that'd be pretty much impossible to
> conceal.


Hi abelard, I'm the same guy that told you about that UFO sighting out in Amissville, some months ago on another thread.

> It is true though, I think, that if these were
> simply large primates we'd find signs of them
> everywhere. Thing that big's gotta eat, and shit,
> and move about. I've spent time in a place with
> actual large predators moving around who are
> incredibly stealthy but even so, when they're
> around, everyone knows. Something as big as a
> bigfoot would leave traces a blind man could find,
> traces that'd be pretty much impossible to
> conceal.

My co-worker at my part-time job is convinced that they live underground and at one time served some kind of purpose (maintaining ancient technology or service humans). While I don't suscribe to that, they definitely seem to be something more than a primate or an animal for that matter.

Ah yes - forgot about that. Close enough to be sure it wasn't anything normal, if I recall.

Well I haven't seen a bigfoot or anything that'd suggest to me this stuff isn't all a hoax, but I do know folks 'in the biz' who do believe, or want to. They haven't seen anything either but the notion of an unknown relic biped is just too good for them. Still waiting on evidence though.

Dinosaurs existed millions of years ago and we stumbled across proof of them a long time ago. Here we are, apparently living amongst something, that nobody in the world has ever been able to justify.

I get the whole mystique and almost humor behind it, but it's sad that some people genuinely believe it's out there. Especially the ones that actually spend money in an effort to find our boy, bigfoot.

I don't know. There are sightings worldwide of giant primates like Bigfoot. In the past 50 to 60 years several new species of primates have been discovered (Oragantans and a new monkey species in the African Congo). I know that Jane Goodall thinks there's an American primate running around, but like you said there are many hoaxes and very little proof.

Here's an interesting thread that someone started today...

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1577845.html

The 2nd posting of the foot that was found was of some interest.

>I know that Jane Goodall thinks there's an American primate running around,

This gets passed around all the time but what Goodall actually said (if I recall correctly) was that she wasn't opposed to the idea of bigfoot on principal, and who knows? That's far from a ringing endorsement and what the fuck does she know - she lives in Africa and studies chimps. Nice lady but this has nothing to do with her studies.

And Orangs have been known to science for 200 years at least, and to the locals long before that. Discovering a living bigfoot wouldn't be like finding a new species of monkey in an obscure forest, it'd be like discovering a rhino in your living room. Unlikely.

Not to change the subject too much, but here's something you all might be interested in. It's not Bigfoot but a mysterious tribe that lived in North Carolina, believed to have been an early Welsh expedition...

The Moon-Eyed People
http://www.northcarolinaghosts.com/mountains/moon-eyed-people.php

In the mountains of the Southern Appalachians, from North Carolina down through Georgia and Alabama, the remains of ancient stone structures line the ridges. Some of these are additions to natural rock formations, others are entirely man-made. Who built these structures? Are they the remains of an ancient war fought in the Appalachians? Are they all that's left of the Moon-Eyed People?

The Moon-Eyed People are a race of small men who, according to Cherokee legend, once lived in the Southern Appalachians. The Moon-Eyed People were said to being physically very different from the Cherokee, being bearded and having pale, perfectly white skin. They were called Moon-Eyed because they were unable to see in daylight, their sensitive eyes being blinded by the sun. For this reason, they were strictly nocturnal, and lived in underground caverns.

Perhaps the most famous structure associated with The Moon-Eyed People is just over the North Carolina border in Georgia at Fort Mountain. Now a state park, Fort Mountain gets its name form the 850 foot long stone wall that varies in height from two to six feet and stretches along the top of the ridge. This stone wall is though to have been constructed around 400 - 500 C.E.

According to one Cherokee legend, this wall is a remnant of a war that the Moon-Eyed people fought and lost against the neighboring Creek nation. The Creeks drove the Moon-Eyed People from their homeland during a full moon, which even the pale light of is blinding to these nocturnal people.

Another version of the story has is that it was the Cherokee themselves who waged war against the Moon-Eyed People, driving them from their home at Hiwassee, a village near what is now Murphy, North Carolina, west into Tennessee. Both versions of the story say the Moon-Eyed People began living underground after losing the war.

Cherokee cosmology is complex and fascinating, and describes a universe where humans share the world with other, non-human, supernatural peoples. In the traditional Cherokee concept of the world, races such as the Nunnehi or the Yunwi Tsudi are a part of the natural world who interact with humans at their own discretion, similar to the traditional idea of fairies in the British Isles. However, what's interesting is that The Moon-Eyed People are never described as being supernatural, but are remembered as another group of humans who were physically very different than the Native Americans.

Because the description of the Moon-Eyed People is that they are pale-skinned and bearded, this has led to some amount of speculation, quite a bit of it wild, that the legend of the Moon-Eyed People represents a Cherokee folk memory of contact with a group of European settlers who made it to the new world before Columbus. Particularly, the Cherokee legend of the Moon-Eyed People has been matched up with the Welsh legend of Prince Madoc.

Acording to the Welsh story, Madoc ab Owain Gwynedd was a Welsh prince who, disenchanted with the civil war wracking his homeland, set sail with his brother Rhirid and a few followers in 1170 across the Atlantic Ocean and landed somewhere around Mobile Bay, Alabama. After some exploring up and down the rivers of southern America, Madoc decided he liked the place well enough and decided to move in. Leaving Rhirid and some of his fellow Welshmen behind, Madoc returned to his native country and recruited enough followers to fill ten ships. He and his colonists set sail back to America and was never heard from in Wales again. Some have speculated that the Moon-Eyed People are the descendants of Madoc's colonists, and that it was these Welshman who fought a war with the Cherokee, and these Welshmen who built the stone forts that dot the ridges of the mountains.

Driven out by the Cherokee, Madoc's descendants found their way South to Florida and Alabama, where they continued to live in, slowly absorbing bits of Native American culture, until they became a strange tribe of pale Indians, living and dressing in Native ways but speaking Welsh.

There is absolutely no historical or archaeological evidence to support the tale of Prince Madoc. King Owain Gwynedd was a real enough historical figure, but no contemporary source names either a Madoc or a Rhirid as his son. The story of Madoc's journey seems to have arisen around 1580 as a piece of propaganda to bolster England's claim to the new world, which needed some bolstering because at that time England's arch-rival Spain was doing most of the actual colonization in the Americas. Spreading the idea that someone from the British Isles had gotten there first painted the Spanish as Johnny-Come-Lately's usurping the rightful English claim to the Americas. Of course, the legitimacy of either claim would have been very correctly questioned by the vast number of people who happened to be living in the "New" World at the time.

Stories of European settlers who encountered Welsh-speaking Indians began circulating in the late 17th Century. A Reverend Morgan Jones claimed to have been captured by a people called the Doeg in present-day South Carolina in 1666, who he was astonished to learn spoke Welsh. According to Jones' account, he preached Christianity to the Doeg for a few months before being set free. Amazingly, Jones seems not to have told anyone of this interesting experience until twenty years after it happened.

Another story tells of a Welsh sailor named Steadman, who was shipwrecked somewhere on the Gulf Coast of Alabama or Florida in in the 1660s, and was astonished to discover a group of Welsh-speaking Natives. Steadman's account failed to be published until 1777, and its authenticity is somewhat suspect.

In the 18th and 19th centuries these stories of Welsh Indians were extremely popular. Govenor Robert Dinwidde of Virginia even put forth the staggering sum of £500 to finance an expedition to find the Welsh Indians he believed to be west of the Mississippi. Lewis and Clark even kept an eye out for the Welsh Indians on their famous expedition.

This idea of Welsh Indians persisted long enough that, for a good part of the twentieth century, a historical maker commemorating Prince Madoc's journey and donated by the Daughters of the American Revolution stood on the beach in Mobile bay until it was removed by a more historically conscientious member of the park service.

When James Mooney published Myths and Legends of the Cherokee in 1902 and introduced the Cherokee legend of the Moon-Eyed People to a larger audience seems to be when the Cherokee story and the story of Prince Madoc began to be conflated.

The idea of Welsh Indians was just one of several popular ideas of pre-Columbian contact with the New World that were circulating in America at the time. The notion that the Lost Tribes of Israel somehow also managed to find their way to North America even found its way into the first new American religion when Joseph Smith published The Book of Mormon.

Many of these stories seem to have risen up from the concept that the citizens of the new American nation had of Native Americans, as opposed to the historical reality of the continent. The romantic idea of Indians as primordial, timeless, and having lived in essentially the same manner for centuries before European contact began to be prevalent in America as the new nation emerged. Ideas about the pre-contact size of the population of America at the time were also grossly underestimated. Americans saw the Indians as being scattered in small populations, unaware that these were the remnants of once populous nations whose ranks had been devastated by European diseases in the early years of contact. Modern estimates say as much as 90% of the native population of North America may have died from disease in the 16th and 17 centuries.

These civilizations left behind physical remains which Europeans encountered. Particularly, the mound-building Cahokian culture left behind the remains of cities and temple complexes across the Southeastern United States along the Mississippi valley, stretching as far east as Town Creek Mound in North Carolina.
At its height around 1200, the city called Cahokia near modern St. Louis was twice the size of contemporary London, and larger than any other city in North America would be again until the 20th century. Encounters with the abundant evidence of this civilization led to wild speculation about who built the mounds and what their purpose was.

Unable to reconcile the physical evidence with their perceptions of the Native Americans, combined with the insidious assumptions of European superiority in all things, wildly speculative ideas about ancient European visitors rose up to fill the gaps. But, except for a brief period of Viking contact in the 10th and 11th Centuries, there is no evidence that such contact ever happened, and quite a bit of evidence that it didn't happen.

So the hill forts that stretch across the Southern Appalachians, and the Cherokee legend of a conflict with some other people, may very well be related. It could all be evidence of a war that seas fought on an impressive scale on North American soil a very long time ago. We may never know the parties involved in the conflict, but we can be fairly certain that none of them were Welsh.
Attachments:

Interesting articles to be sure. I think it's commonly agreed upon by most these days that the vikings, asians, etc. had all been visiting the America's centuries if not thousands of years before Columbus.

We are NOT descended from Neanderthals, but are descended from the same branch as about (13 to 14) other primitive man/evolved primates. The closest living relatives of humans are bonobos and chimpanzees (both genus Pan) and gorillas (genus Gorilla). With the sequencing of both the human and chimpanzee genome, current estimates of the similarity between their DNA sequences range between 95% and 99%. By using the technique called the molecular clock which estimates the time required for the number of divergent mutations to accumulate between two lineages, the approximate date for the split between lineages can be calculated. The gibbons (family Hylobatidae) and orangutans ( genus Pongo) were the first groups to split from the line leading to the humans, then gorillas followed by the chimpanzees and bonobos. The splitting date between human and chimpanzee lineages is placed around 4-8 million years ago during the late Miocene epoch.

Genetic evidence has also been employed to resolve the question of whether there was any gene flow between early modern humans and Neanderthals, and to enhance our understanding of the early human migration patterns and splitting dates. By comparing the parts of the genome that are not under natural selection and which therefore accumulate mutations at a fairly steady rate, it is possible to reconstruct a genetic tree incorporating the entire human species since the last shared ancestor.

Each time a certain mutation (Single-nucleotide polymorphism) appears in an individual and is passed on to his or her descendants a haplogroup is formed including all of the descendants of the individual who will also carry that mutation. By comparing mitochondrial DNA which is inherited only from the mother, geneticists have concluded that the last female common ancestor whose genetic marker is found in all modern humans, the so-called mitochondrial Eve, must have lived around 200,000 years ago.

Some studies in the US, the UK and elsewhere have done DNA testing of both bones we have in museums as well as modern populations. So far, that testing has revealed the presence of Neanderthal DNA. As it turns out there is, so at some point our ancestors intermarried with Neanderthals. I suspect with other early humans as well although further testing is needed to confirm that.

One of the problems with Bigfoot DNA, when it is found and tested, is that it either comes back inconclusive or further testing is needed. Some labs have come back with some evidence of it being from a primate of some kind. Because we don't have a body, with bones, flesh, and DNA to study, the scientific effort is severely hampered.

>So far, that testing has revealed the presence of Neanderthal DNA.

A surprising amount of this argument illustrates how poorly we understand the population structure of ancient humans. Did we interbreed with Neandertals? Probably. How much of our DNA did we get from Neandertals? Don't hang your hat on any numbers just yet.

>Some labs have come back with some evidence of it being from a primate of some kind.

Yep, and the reason is that the guy who found (and contaminated) the sample was some kind of primate. As was the tech who ran the sample, who also may have contaminated it. Without contamination the samples come back as 'bear' (or whatever) and are quietly dropped or 'inconclusive', meaning the sample was stuck into a plastic bag and kept in a hot car. The really interesting samples react to human gene cutters, mostly because they've been contaminated by humans - they're the 'primate of some kind' samples, just enough ambiguity to be 'interesting'.

abelard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >So far, that testing has revealed the presence of
> Neanderthal DNA.
>
> A surprising amount of this argument illustrates
> how poorly we understand the population structure
> of ancient humans. Did we interbreed with
> Neandertals? Probably. How much of our DNA did
> we get from Neandertals? Don't hang your hat on
> any numbers just yet.
>
> >Some labs have come back with some evidence of it
> being from a primate of some kind.
>
> Yep, and the reason is that the guy who found (and
> contaminated) the sample was some kind of primate.
> As was the tech who ran the sample, who also may
> have contaminated it. Without contamination the
> samples come back as 'bear' (or whatever) and are
> quietly dropped or 'inconclusive', meaning the
> sample was stuck into a plastic bag and kept in a
> hot car. The really interesting samples react to
> human gene cutters, mostly because they've been
> contaminated by humans - they're the 'primate of
> some kind' samples, just enough ambiguity to be
> 'interesting'.

To clarify further...

Did we interbreed with Neandertals?

The answer is yes, and also with other early humanoids as well. It's not known how much of this went on. We also know that our ancestors had conflicts with them as well (as well as between each other).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Some labs have come back with some evidence of it being from a primate of some kind.

Yep, and the reason is that the guy who found (and contaminated) the sample was some kind of primate. As was the tech who ran the sample, who also may have contaminated it. Without contamination the samples come back as 'bear' (or whatever) and are quietly dropped or 'inconclusive', meaning the sample was stuck into a plastic bag and kept in a hot car. The really interesting samples react to human gene cutters, mostly because they've been contaminated by humans - they're the 'primate of some kind' samples, just enough ambiguity to be 'interesting'.

This is true in most of the cases, however there have been a scant few where proper safeguards were taken and samples collected that came back inconclusive or belonging to some kind of primate. Without a corpse to dissect and assimilate its biological information (DNA, bones, flesh, etc.) It's going to be very difficult to match. Bottom line, we need a corpse.

yXMFU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, people told me that ghosts and UFO's don't
> exist and yet I have lived in a haunted house and
> seen a UFO up close. That doesn't mean I'm
> skeptical, but when it comes to Bigfoot, I think
> we've got it all wrong about them (if they exist
> at all). Maybe they aren't these animals we think
> they are.


Please elaborate...You lived in a haunted house? How do you know it was haunted?

Same for UFO.......

Do you drink and or do drugs to excess?

>Bottom line, we need a corpse.

Nay, one tooth, one decent bone fragment, bit of hair, one gram of shit - if it yielded any actually odd DNA, it'd be case closed. A dead body would also be nice but it'd be way overkill. I'd settle for one decent photograph that wasn't a fake.

Skeptical Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yXMFU Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, people told me that ghosts and UFO's
> don't
> > exist and yet I have lived in a haunted house
> and
> > seen a UFO up close. That doesn't mean I'm
> > skeptical, but when it comes to Bigfoot, I
> think
> > we've got it all wrong about them (if they
> exist
> > at all). Maybe they aren't these animals we
> think
> > they are.
>
>
> Please elaborate...You lived in a haunted house?
> How do you know it was haunted?
>
> Same for UFO.......
>
> Do you drink and or do drugs to excess?

LOL, I get that question asked alot. The house is in Annandale located very near the Annandale NOVA Campus in Wakefield forest. There were things happening in the house for years (almost all of it positive). The problem was the ghost was starting to show itself after my brother and I were born. My parents had enough of it after an incident where I came home from school and was locked out of my house. The ghost let me into the house and was standing in the kitchen. It scared me alot, even though the ghost was friendly and I always believed just trying help us and all the people on our street out. (He haunted almost all the houses on our street). He was soldier from the Civil War that had died there apparently (the area was huge civil war field hospital). To give you an idea of what he looked like, go google those old pictures of dead gunfighters, with the dead eyes/stare. Now imagine that face on a shot up Civil war soldier. That's what made my parents decide to move.

Now for the UFO you can go read about it in this thread in detail where I am the user "Curious about the tape". The interesting thing about this UFO is that is shows up about every 50 years or so (according to our old deceased neighbor) and has been coming to the area for at least 200 years.

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1439381/1447710.html#msg-1447710

abelard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Bottom line, we need a corpse.
>
> Nay, one tooth, one decent bone fragment, bit of
> hair, one gram of shit - if it yielded any
> actually odd DNA, it'd be case closed. A dead
> body would also be nice but it'd be way
> overkill. I'd settle for one decent photograph
> that wasn't a fake.

A tooth or bone fragment won't cover it on this one. That's because Bigfoot is a highly controversial subject in the scientific community. No one and especially no respectable institution will put their credibility on the line without a body being found. Some of this due to the hoaxes in the past and the embarrassment that went along with that. Some are due to early mistakes made with misidentifications of other animals such as the pig tooth that was discovered back in the 60's or 70's I believe. That particular pig tooth was believed to have belonged to a previously undiscovered primitive man, and did in fact belong to a prehistoric pig. So nothing short of a full body will due for Bigfoot. Same is true with the Loch Ness Monster, and so on.

I am open to whether there really is an undocumented large primate in the U.S. or anywhere in the world. But...I know these clowns are in it for the fame and money.

I grew up in the late 50's and early 60's in an area of Black Rock Forest which is about 3830 acres and West Point Military Academy which covers many square miles of posted land. I secretly hunted and trapped these areas for almost ten years and only one time did I see another person (they never saw me) when I was in stealth mode.

I spent so much time in the woods that everyone who knew me joked that I would go to my Senior Prom with a chipmunk on my shoulder. I want to be clear that I have never seen a Bigfoot nor anything that I would consider a possibility of one; but I have seen just about everything else from Bobcats, gray foxes, red foxes, raccoons, skunks, coyotes & coy dogs, deer and a bear; and most didn't even know I was there observing.

I camped out in these areas for 4 or 5 days at a time, sometimes in the summer but mostly in the fall and early winter when the foliage was greatly thinned. After I have been in the woods for a day or two with no sounds of civilization, I became aware of every 'strange' sound around me. If a squirrel rustles some leaves 100 yards away, I heard it. If a raccoon shuffles around slowly in the leaves or brush looking for mice or berries, I heard it. If a deer 200 feet away snaps a twig while browsing, I heard it.

There are natural sounds in the woods that you become accustomed to like the squeaking of one tree or branch against another when the wind blows or the occasional limb that breaks off and falls to the ground. My eyes would become so sensitive that I could see the movement of a small tree or bush, in my peripheral vision, from a browsing deer. Or the sudden movement of a gray fox that came into view. I even saw a male ruffed grouse on a dead log beating his wings in the air marking his territory and calling for a mate.

My point is that except for birds calling and singing, the woods is a very quiet place and if any animal makes a sound or overt movement every other animal in the vicinity is very aware and cautious of it, until it is proven to be non-threatening. There is a rule in the woods; you are cautious or you are dinner.

I drink six beers, put gold bond on my ballsack, then spend my weeknights in the woods around suburban developments looking for bigfoot.

Has there ever been any sightings in Northern VA of Bigfoot?

yPDKU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has there ever been any sightings in Northern VA
> of Bigfoot?

Yes, the Mount Vernon Monster is considered to be Bigfoot. There are also several sightings in Southern VA now, most likely due to the increased amount of fracking/mining being down in the Southwestern part of VA.

Finding Bigfoot just did a story on it...
http://www.animalplanet.com/tv-shows/finding-bigfoot/videos/bigfoot-in-virginia.htm
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