I found a brief article about police using a taser to subdue a cafeteria manager in Arlington County interesting. It contrasted sharply with what likely would have happened had it involved police in neighboring Fairfax or Loudoun. In Arlington, police were called to a school to respond to “threatening behavior” by a cafeteria manager. The woman said she had a gun in her bag. When she reached into it, an Arlington police officer stunned her with a taser and subdued her. An appropriate, effective response. Yet, a few months ago when a tiny Filipino-American woman waved a pair of scissors at Sheriff’s deputies in a Costco in Loudoun County, she died in a hail of bullets. The officers had tasers, but preferred guns. After a brief internal review, the deputies involved were absolved of any wrongdoing.
In Springfield last summer, John Geer, an unarmed man was gunned down by a still unidentified Fairfax County cop as he stood in the doorway of his home surrounded by a SWAT unit armed for duty in Afghanistan. The killing seemed not even remotely a matter of self defense. In any normal, civilized jurisdiction, the killer would have been suspended pending a genuine investigation, followed by charges and a trial. However, in the 72 years the FCPD has existed, lots of folks have been killed in the line of duty, but no officer has even been charged. `

In the case of John Geer's killing, on February 2, after six months of silence, the Fairfax Commonwealth Attorney Ray Morrogh announced the was referring the matter to U.S. Attorney’s office. No one has been charged, and Mr. Morrogh says he’s stuck because there is a “conflict of interest that has arisen”, AND “there is a second potential conflict of interest that has arisen out of my office.” He declined to give any further information because “the investigation” is ongoing.

I have to give Morrogh credit. At least he is admitting conflicts of interest—as if there were none in the first 72 years of fellow officers investigating shooters! In many cases in recent years, there has been public outcry, and in some cases, quiet out-of-court, 7 figure cash settlements with families of the dead. There have been appeals by organizations such as the NAACP and the Citizens Coalition for Police Accountability (CCPA) to the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors to let the sun shine into the FCPD shroud of secrecy and to establish an objective citizens review board to look into killings when complaints are made. To no avail.

To date, the Fairfax Chairman and Supervisors have refused to act, failed to do their jobs. They are unwilling to make the police accountable under the laws that govern the rest of us. Some say they are intimidated by the police, or the police union (imagine anyone fearing a union these days!).

Hundreds of jurisdictions around the United States have created successful civilian review boards which bring justice not only to the public, but also to the vast majority of police who use lethal force only when absolutely unavoidable.

For more information and background, google Citizens Coalition for Police Accountability or email virginiaccpa@aol.com for more information.

Tl;dr

John l Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tl;dr
Attachments:

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2014 08:55AM by chuckhoffmann.

i recently reported to the police a missing person reported dead by a third person and possible theft of $20,000+ dollars from the person - which i thought might be connected with him being missing. a good friend.

-----------------------------------
i get a call back from fairfax police:

we didn't bother to see if the guy is dead and the $20k thing is a civil matter so the police don't care

-------------------------------------
nice work! fuck you.

The op is cherry picking parts of the articles. In the Loudoun incident a taser was used by not effective per the post so they switched to guns. In the Arlington incident they did the same thing but the taser worked. If the worker had a fun would you have wanted them to use a taser or a gun?

I am sure there are more details that haven't come out in the Springfield shooting.

As for VTWKp take your meds or provide some more information.

VTWKp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i recently reported to the police a missing person
> reported dead by a third person and possible theft
> of $20,000+ dollars from the person - which i
> thought might be connected with him being missing.
> a good friend.
>
> -----------------------------------
> i get a call back from fairfax police:
>
> we didn't bother to see if the guy is dead and the
> $20k thing is a civil matter so the police don't
> care
>
> -------------------------------------
> nice work! fuck you.

I think I remember hearing about this. Can you please post the name of the victim and I will post what information I can find on him/her?

80% of the cops are corrupt and there is no one overseeing their actions. They are getting away with murder, literally! They are finger-raping men and women left and right for innocent crimes like jaywalking or littering.

Let's face it the US is slowly evolving into a police state. There is no American dream left, all hope is gone.

E had armed Afghans on our FOB, one day Achmel the dumb ass got pissed and started to raise his AK47AK47 rifle towards us. I had a shotgun and an M4. I tackled the douche bag, and me, my boys, Afghan and American, beat his ever loving ass, then turned his zip tied ass in. Long story short, I could have killed him, no sweat, but had the balls to realize I didn't need to go to my guns. Brave cops do this too.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2014 08:56AM by chuckhoffmann.

John Lovaas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In Springfield last summer, John Geer, an unarmed
> man was gunned down by a still unidentified
> Fairfax County cop as he stood in the doorway of
> his home surrounded by a SWAT unit armed for duty
> in Afghanistan. The killing seemed not even
> remotely a matter of self defense. In any normal,
> civilized jurisdiction, the killer would have been
> suspended pending a genuine investigation,
> followed by charges and a trial. However, in the
> 72 years the FCPD has existed, lots of folks have
> been killed in the line of duty, but no officer
> has even been charged. `
>
> In the case of John Geer's killing, on February 2,
> after six months of silence, the Fairfax
> Commonwealth Attorney Ray Morrogh announced the
> was referring the matter to U.S. Attorney’s
> office. No one has been charged, and Mr. Morrogh
> says he’s stuck because there is a “conflict
> of interest that has arisen”, AND “there is a
> second potential conflict of interest that has
> arisen out of my office.” He declined to give
> any further information because “the
> investigation” is ongoing.

This is BS. Greer was erratic that morning over a domestic related issue and when the police showed up, he refused to cooperate with them. The police were told by his wife/girlfriend that he had a gun. That gun on the stairs behind him (which was behind the front door where he was standing. The thread below has the 911 call, and the video shot by the neighbors.

Another Police Shooting in Fairfax Co.(West Springfield)
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1291922/1293083.html#msg-1293083

Guess what? It's against the law to NOT cooperate with police. Does this mean you should get shot? No, not necessarily, but when the cops show up that you have a gun, threatening your common-law wife, and won't come out of your house and you have a gun sitting behind you, yeah you might get your dumbass shot. So for this particular example you are completely wrong.
Attachments:

John Lovaas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found a brief article about police using a taser
> to subdue a cafeteria manager in Arlington County
> interesting. It contrasted sharply with what
> likely would have happened had it involved police
> in neighboring Fairfax or Loudoun. In Arlington,
> police were called to a school to respond to
> “threatening behavior” by a cafeteria manager.
> The woman said she had a gun in her bag. When she
> reached into it, an Arlington police officer
> stunned her with a taser and subdued her. An
> appropriate, effective response. Yet, a few months
> ago when a tiny Filipino-American woman waved a
> pair of scissors at Sheriff’s deputies in a
> Costco in Loudoun County, she died in a hail of
> bullets. The officers had tasers, but preferred
> guns. After a brief internal review, the deputies
> involved were absolved of any wrongdoing.

Hhahahahahhahaah! The lady shot at Cosco didn't have scissors she had the large pizza cutter knife. Jesus where did you do your research? They tried to subdue her, and they had problems so they shot her. Guess what? Brandishing a weapon at cops...BAD IDEA. Good riddance to both of these nut cases. This lady at Costco supposedly went nuts because she went off her meds.

Shooter at Costco in Sterling?
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1203081/page-1.html

Liberal Nonsense Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guess what? It's against the law to NOT cooperate
> with police.

That's not true. It's perfectly legal to refuse to cooperate with the police. Please show me the law that states otherwise: http://leg1.state.va.us/000/src.htm
It's not clear to me that the police had reasonable suspicion to detain this man or to enter his home. Simple claims of a domestic disturbance and legal weapon possession does not rise to the standard.

Rule of Law Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liberal Nonsense Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guess what? It's against the law to NOT
> cooperate
> > with police.
>
> That's not true. It's perfectly legal to refuse
> to cooperate with the police. Please show me the
> law that states otherwise:
> http://leg1.state.va.us/000/src.htm
> It's not clear to me that the police had
> reasonable suspicion to detain this man or to
> enter his home. Simple claims of a domestic
> disturbance and legal weapon possession does not
> rise to the standard.

How about...

prev | next


§ 18.2-460. Obstructing justice; penalty.

A. If any person without just cause knowingly obstructs a judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, any law-enforcement officer, or animal control officer employed pursuant to § 3.2-6555 in the performance of his duties as such or fails or refuses without just cause to cease such obstruction when requested to do so by such judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, law-enforcement officer, or animal control officer employed pursuant to § 3.2-6555, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. Except as provided in subsection C, any person who, by threats or force, knowingly attempts to intimidate or impede a judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, any law-enforcement officer, or an animal control officer employed pursuant to § 3.2-6555 lawfully engaged in his duties as such, or to obstruct or impede the administration of justice in any court, is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

C. If any person by threats of bodily harm or force knowingly attempts to intimidate or impede a judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, any law-enforcement officer, lawfully engaged in the discharge of his duty, or to obstruct or impede the administration of justice in any court relating to a violation of or conspiracy to violate § 18.2-248 or subdivision (a) (3), (b) or (c) of § 18.2-248.1, or § 18.2-46.2 or § 18.2-46.3, or relating to the violation of or conspiracy to violate any violent felony offense listed in subsection C of § 17.1-805, he shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony.

D. Any person who knowingly and willfully makes any materially false statement or representation to a law-enforcement officer or an animal control officer employed pursuant to § 3.2-6555 who is in the course of conducting an investigation of a crime by another is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-310; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1976, c. 269; 1984, c. 571; 1989, c. 506; 1993, c. 747; 1996, c. 718; 1999, cc. 770, 800; 2002, cc. 527, 810, 818; 2003, cc. 111, 149; 2004, cc. 396, 435; 2007, cc. 220, 282; 2009, c. 242.)

Just what the liberals needed, a cold splash of reality.

I'll take that challenge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> § 18.2-460. Obstructing justice; penalty.

There's no indication that Geer obstructed anyone.
Geer was at the threshold of his own home, communicating with police. That's more than the man was obligated to do.
Geer wasn't obligated to allow police into his home, to open his door, or to speak with the police.
Everyone has the right to refuse to interact with the police: http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/05/can-you-refuse-to-answer-police-questions.html

If the police had enough evidence, they could have presented Geer with an arrest warrant, taken him to the ADC, and attempted to force Geer to speak in the discomfort of confinement.

Rule of Law Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll take that challenge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > § 18.2-460. Obstructing justice; penalty.
>
> There's no indication that Geer obstructed anyone.
>
> Geer was at the threshold of his own home,
> communicating with police. That's more than the
> man was obligated to do.
> Geer wasn't obligated to allow police into his
> home, to open his door, or to speak with the
> police.
> Everyone has the right to refuse to interact with
> the police:
> http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/05/can-you-r
> efuse-to-answer-police-questions.html
>
> If the police had enough evidence, they could have
> presented Geer with an arrest warrant, taken him
> to the ADC, and attempted to force Geer to speak
> in the discomfort of confinement.

He refused to cooperate with police after they arrived and was acting erratically for hours. Hours! I'm with the police on this one.

Rule of Law Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll take that challenge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > § 18.2-460. Obstructing justice; penalty.
>
> There's no indication that Geer obstructed anyone.
>
> Geer was at the threshold of his own home,
> communicating with police. That's more than the
> man was obligated to do.
> Geer wasn't obligated to allow police into his
> home, to open his door, or to speak with the
> police.
> Everyone has the right to refuse to interact with
> the police:
> http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/05/can-you-r
> efuse-to-answer-police-questions.html
>
> If the police had enough evidence, they could have
> presented Geer with an arrest warrant, taken him
> to the ADC, and attempted to force Geer to speak
> in the discomfort of confinement.

This is ridiculous, they were told he was armed and wouldn't step away from his front door. Quite honestly, they should have gassed him and taken him into custody.

Liberals abound! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rule of Law Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'll take that challenge Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > § 18.2-460. Obstructing justice; penalty.
> >
> > There's no indication that Geer obstructed
> anyone.
> >
> > Geer was at the threshold of his own home,
> > communicating with police. That's more than
> the
> > man was obligated to do.
> > Geer wasn't obligated to allow police into his
> > home, to open his door, or to speak with the
> > police.
> > Everyone has the right to refuse to interact
> with
> > the police:
> >
> http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/05/can-you-r
>
> > efuse-to-answer-police-questions.html
> >
> > If the police had enough evidence, they could
> have
> > presented Geer with an arrest warrant, taken
> him
> > to the ADC, and attempted to force Geer to
> speak
> > in the discomfort of confinement.
>
> This is ridiculous, they were told he was armed
> and wouldn't step away from his front door. Quite
> honestly, they should have gassed him and taken
> him into custody.

So he is standing in his Front Door, obviously unarmed, video and eyewitnesses tell us this, both hand are visible, palms facing the cops on the door frame, he moves his hands from above his head to shoulder level, palms still facing cops on the door frame, FIRE! Cop hits him in the chest, no one else fires their weapon, SWAT is on the scene, an eyewitness screams you just shot an unarmed man!

I won't even go into the fact that they let him bleed out for over an hour before they attempted to enter the house.

If this is not murder than what is? This was 9 months ago! I agree this is ridiculous!

The citizenry, safe in the comfort of their own homes or their offices, behind their keyboards, never having to place themselves in the situations any of these officers have put themselves in are all qualified to judge. Experts. All of you. Have you ever considered a ride along or going through the Citizens Police Academy? Nah. Too hard for you. Much easier to do what you do.

What you fail to understand because you aren't educated enough and, again, you've never been through anything other then a traffic stop (cops fault), is that there already is accountability (Internal Affiars), and "civilian review boards" in the form of a jury. When an officer commits an agregious act he/she will go through an internal investigation which, I'm sure because of your vast experiences, you think is a joke. Personally I'd rather be arrested then go through an IA review. If its criminal then he/she will be charged, will go in front of a jury, and then that "civilian review board" will decide what their punishment is. Because this is America this can and does happen. You just choose to, as another poster put it "cherry pick" what you want for your arguement.

You also fail to understand that, since Robert Peel conceived the idea of the modern police force 200 years ago, police work has come a long way from the days of possees and lynchings. The Supreme Court of the United States, another "civilian review board" has ruled, long ago, that the court (and thus the public) must view the actions of the officer through the eyes of that officer - not as someone in a third party situation. If, after reviewing all of the evidence and hearing the testimony of those involved, its found that an officer acted recklessly and committed murder (which seems to be the hot topic here) then he or she will go to jail. Simple as that (or as simple as the justice system is here in the States).

Whats also interesting is that people call for the heads of these officers in these situations knowing full well that if the Po-lice made an arrest without doing a full investigation they'd scream "POLICE STATE!" and "WHERE ARE HIS/HER RIGHTS?" Guess what - those of you who talk about the cops not having more rights then you (while wrong) forget that the Officers also have the SAME rights as you. Its called due process. Justice isn't immediate. It could be but I really don't think you'd enjoy that system of government.

I never know whether its depressing or laughable when people start these threads. I do know its depressing when people just blindly follow along. Do a google search of Fairfax County officers being arrested and you'll find enough articles to show then when cops commit crimes they get arrested too.

I do take solace in the fact that not everybody blindly follows along and that the vast majority of citizens out there are supportive of their first responders.

suckaJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 80% of the cops are corrupt and there is no one
> overseeing their actions. They are getting away
> with murder, literally! They are finger-raping
> men and women left and right for innocent crimes
> like jaywalking or littering.
>
> Let's face it the US is slowly evolving into a
> police state. There is no American dream left,
> all hope is gone.

80%? come on. All of you fucking alarmists are ridiculous. Life is short, stop worrying about your county becoming a police state. I deal with a police officer like once a year and walk away thinking about how much their job must suck.

What is everyone doing that this "police state" can't know about? Quit fucking bitching all the time and do something productive.

Ridiculous Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The citizenry, safe in the comfort of their own
> homes or their offices, behind their keyboards,
> never having to place themselves in the situations
> any of these officers have put themselves in are
> all qualified to judge. Experts. All of you.
> Have you ever considered a ride along or going
> through the Citizens Police Academy? Nah. Too
> hard for you. Much easier to do what you do.
>
> What you fail to understand because you aren't
> educated enough and, again, you've never been
> through anything other then a traffic stop (cops
> fault), is that there already is accountability
> (Internal Affiars), and "civilian review boards"
> in the form of a jury. When an officer commits an
> agregious act he/she will go through an internal
> investigation which, I'm sure because of your vast
> experiences, you think is a joke. Personally I'd
> rather be arrested then go through an IA review.
> If its criminal then he/she will be charged, will
> go in front of a jury, and then that "civilian
> review board" will decide what their punishment
> is. Because this is America this can and does
> happen. You just choose to, as another poster put
> it "cherry pick" what you want for your
> arguement.
>
> You also fail to understand that, since Robert
> Peel conceived the idea of the modern police force
> 200 years ago, police work has come a long way
> from the days of possees and lynchings. The
> Supreme Court of the United States, another
> "civilian review board" has ruled, long ago, that
> the court (and thus the public) must view the
> actions of the officer through the eyes of that
> officer - not as someone in a third party
> situation. If, after reviewing all of the
> evidence and hearing the testimony of those
> involved, its found that an officer acted
> recklessly and committed murder (which seems to be
> the hot topic here) then he or she will go to
> jail. Simple as that (or as simple as the justice
> system is here in the States).
>
> Whats also interesting is that people call for the
> heads of these officers in these situations
> knowing full well that if the Po-lice made an
> arrest without doing a full investigation they'd
> scream "POLICE STATE!" and "WHERE ARE HIS/HER
> RIGHTS?" Guess what - those of you who talk about
> the cops not having more rights then you (while
> wrong) forget that the Officers also have the SAME
> rights as you. Its called due process. Justice
> isn't immediate. It could be but I really don't
> think you'd enjoy that system of government.
>
> I never know whether its depressing or laughable
> when people start these threads. I do know its
> depressing when people just blindly follow along.
> Do a google search of Fairfax County officers
> being arrested and you'll find enough articles to
> show then when cops commit crimes they get
> arrested too.
>
> I do take solace in the fact that not everybody
> blindly follows along and that the vast majority
> of citizens out there are supportive of their
> first responders.


What the hell is your argument? If you cant dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with Bullshit? Stick to the case in question and if you want to join the discussion speak to the facts of this case. I agree with you, 99.9% of the police officers out there are doing an unbelievable job, a job, I would never want. However, how can it be that not one police officer in the history of Fairfax County has ever been found to be guilty of involuntary homicide, when we have all these Police shootings with civilians killed and then officers fired and or demoted? How can the public trust a Police force that sits on this case for over nine months and then hands it off to the Feds, and will not comment on it because it is an ongoing investigation!

This case in particular is so obvious that the FCPD is causing a public uproar by not ruling on the shooting. This is exactly why a civilian review board is required! How can anyone with an impartial mind not see that this cop used excessive force when not needed. The man was standing in his doorway with his hands clearly visible, NO WEAPON, SWAT positioned all over the place, other cops positioned feet away, and one cop decides to open fire! Please tell me how this is not an illegal use of deadly force!

Speak to that issue and do not tell me how hard the cops job is and how if you do not walk in his shoes you do not have the right to judge. This guy was anyone of our neighbors, who had just broken up with his common law wife, they had 2 kids together, he lives in a nice townhouse in a nice neighborhood. He posed no danger to the cops and he is shot in the chest at point blank range in front of friends and his family. His friend is standing there and screams you just shot an unarmed man when the officer fires.

What in the world could take nine months to investigate this?

Exactly. And Internal Affairs is a joke as well. They are waiting to see what the Commonwealth Attorney is going to do. It is all politics. It goes something like this:

1-If there are going to be criminal charges against the officer, Internal Affairs will sustain a violation. Therefore, the County can distance themselves from the officer and simply blame him and say it was never because of training, etc.

2-If there are no criminal charges against the officer, Internal Affairs will say that the officer was in compliance with policy. Why? Because if IA says that that the officer violated policy, then they just affirmed a future Civil Case against the Department.

Bottom line: Don't believe anything that the County says against an employee whether it is right or wrong. They just do things for politics. There have been many employees screwed for doing nothing wrong. On the other hand, many employees have been protected for screwing up. It all involves money, reputation, and whether or not some incompetent Commander has it out for the employee. Sad, but true.

In this case, there is clearly an issue involving liability on the officer. That is why the Commonwealth refused to make a decision and pawned it off to another agency to make a decision (politics again). That on it's face reveals that the shooting was not justified.

The notion that this guy was armed is also in question. The dispatcher will always ask whether the person has guns. That is a loaded question. Most people have guns. They could be in a safe or wherever. People will always tell the dispatcher that they have guns. Meaning they OWN guns. It does not mean that they are currently brandishing a weapon. So I am sure that the dispatcher entered into the dispatched event that this guy HAS WEAPONS. So that is what the officer knows in the back of his head. However, each officer knows that you treat every situation as if the person has a weapon. A person is allowed to carry weapons on his own property. You can not brandish a weapon at a person or police officer. If you do, the officer can perceive that as a threat and take action. Simply not listening to officer commands and moving your hands down if not an justified action to shoot a person. AN OFFICER MUST BE ABLE TO ARTICULATE THAT THEIR LIVE, OR OTHER PERSONS LIFE, WAS IN IMMEDIATE DANGER IN ORDER TO USE DEADLY FORCE AGAINST THEM. Simply moving your hands in not good enough. If the officer clearly saw a firearm and the guy was moving his hands towards the weapon, that is a different story. Assuming that there was a weapon in the doorway does not make this a legal shooting.

This guy did not commit any obstruction of justice. You can yell, argue, carry a weapon, tell the police to F**K themselves, and many other things in your own house and THAT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW. The law also says that you can use force against the police to prevent an unlawful arrest. The big question is this, what law did the guy break? If there is no law, the police will usually get the mental health people down there and try to get a "Mental Petition" on the guy and then serve him with that in order to take him into custody. Did that happen, who knows? However, that still does not justify the shooting a person for not listening to commands; and his hands going down to his side. It boils down to whether the officer saw a weapon and perceived a threat. It is not good enough to say I thought he had a gun because that is what the dispatcher said.

-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly. And Internal Affairs is a joke as well.
> They are waiting to see what the Commonwealth
> Attorney is going to do. It is all politics. It
> goes something like this:
>
> 1-If there are going to be criminal charges
> against the officer, Internal Affairs will sustain
> a violation. Therefore, the County can distance
> themselves from the officer and simply blame him
> and say it was never because of training, etc.
>
> 2-If there are no criminal charges against the
> officer, Internal Affairs will say that the
> officer was in compliance with policy. Why?
> Because if IA says that that the officer violated
> policy, then they just affirmed a future Civil
> Case against the Department.
>
> Bottom line: Don't believe anything that the
> County says against an employee whether it is
> right or wrong. They just do things for politics.
> There have been many employees screwed for doing
> nothing wrong. On the other hand, many employees
> have been protected for screwing up. It all
> involves money, reputation, and whether or not
> some incompetent Commander has it out for the
> employee. Sad, but true.


And you wonder why there is no Police Oversight Committee, corruption, and incompetence. But Weiss Rasool (Weiss Russell) still got a job with the IRS. Wonder what he knew about the Department that he is hands off?????

The officer in the above video kind of looks like Mike Mazik from behind.

Liberals abound! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rule of Law Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'll take that challenge Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > § 18.2-460. Obstructing justice; penalty.
> >
> > There's no indication that Geer obstructed
> anyone.
> >
> > Geer was at the threshold of his own home,
> > communicating with police. That's more than
> the
> > man was obligated to do.
> > Geer wasn't obligated to allow police into his
> > home, to open his door, or to speak with the
> > police.
> > Everyone has the right to refuse to interact
> with
> > the police:
> >
> http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/05/can-you-r
>
> > efuse-to-answer-police-questions.html
> >
> > If the police had enough evidence, they could
> have
> > presented Geer with an arrest warrant, taken
> him
> > to the ADC, and attempted to force Geer to
> speak
> > in the discomfort of confinement.
>
> This is ridiculous, they were told he was armed
> and wouldn't step away from his front door. Quite
> honestly, they should have gassed him and taken
> him into custody.

EXACTLY RIGHT! But instead they shot him in the chest! Don't you think everyone involved wishes they had gassed him, or tazed him, or fired a rubber bullet or bean bag or pepper sprayed him, ANYTHING BUT DEADLY FORCE.

Ridiculous Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The citizenry, safe in the comfort of their own
> homes or their offices, behind their keyboards,
> never having to place themselves in the situations
> any of these officers have put themselves in are
> all qualified to judge. Experts. All of you.
> Have you ever considered a ride along or going
> through the Citizens Police Academy? Nah. Too
> hard for you. Much easier to do what you do.
>
> What you fail to understand because you aren't
> educated enough and, again, you've never been
> through anything other then a traffic stop (cops
> fault), is that there already is accountability
> (Internal Affiars), and "civilian review boards"
> in the form of a jury. When an officer commits an
> agregious act he/she will go through an internal
> investigation which, I'm sure because of your vast
> experiences, you think is a joke. Personally I'd
> rather be arrested then go through an IA review.
> If its criminal then he/she will be charged, will
> go in front of a jury, and then that "civilian
> review board" will decide what their punishment
> is. Because this is America this can and does
> happen. You just choose to, as another poster put
> it "cherry pick" what you want for your
> arguement.
>
> You also fail to understand that, since Robert
> Peel conceived the idea of the modern police force
> 200 years ago, police work has come a long way
> from the days of possees and lynchings. The
> Supreme Court of the United States, another
> "civilian review board" has ruled, long ago, that
> the court (and thus the public) must view the
> actions of the officer through the eyes of that
> officer - not as someone in a third party
> situation. If, after reviewing all of the
> evidence and hearing the testimony of those
> involved, its found that an officer acted
> recklessly and committed murder (which seems to be
> the hot topic here) then he or she will go to
> jail. Simple as that (or as simple as the justice
> system is here in the States).
>
> Whats also interesting is that people call for the
> heads of these officers in these situations
> knowing full well that if the Po-lice made an
> arrest without doing a full investigation they'd
> scream "POLICE STATE!" and "WHERE ARE HIS/HER
> RIGHTS?" Guess what - those of you who talk about
> the cops not having more rights then you (while
> wrong) forget that the Officers also have the SAME
> rights as you. Its called due process. Justice
> isn't immediate. It could be but I really don't
> think you'd enjoy that system of government.
>
> I never know whether its depressing or laughable
> when people start these threads. I do know its
> depressing when people just blindly follow along.
> Do a google search of Fairfax County officers
> being arrested and you'll find enough articles to
> show then when cops commit crimes they get
> arrested too.
>
> I do take solace in the fact that not everybody
> blindly follows along and that the vast majority
> of citizens out there are supportive of their
> first responders.


I hope you are not a cop! Your blind allegiance to this cop who killed this poor bastard is scary if you are, and exactly why an independent review board is required in Fairfax County.

In your little manifesto you tell us citizens we are to stupid to understand what you do and are not worthy to judge cops. There is the problem! The fact that not one cop has been charged with homicide in the history of FCPD tells you the mentality of the force. I will use a popular tactic used by cops on kids in the County on traffic stops, why not let us review your actions? If you have nothing to hide it should be no problem. Sounds like you got something to hide if you are so adamant against a review board. You talk about due process, how long can the investigation of the Geer shooting take? So far it's been ten months and they just handed it off to the Feds. Really how hard is this? The cop shot him point blank in the chest, the guy was unarmed, even the police admit this. What justification can the cop have for shooting an unarmed man standing twenty feet away who made no move against him? How can anyone in their right mind defend that!

You guys will be on your deathbeds saying "man, I'm glad I spent all that time getting my panties in a twist over something that never came close to affecting me on a personal level."

You all feel so good about yourselves, feeling righteous and aware for not being a "follower". You're still in the same boat as the people that don't lose sleep over it. Most others aren't followers, they just have a better grasp of how to spend their time and which battles are worth fighting. I agree with you in theory but shit will always be corrupt and fucked up. I'm laughing at you thinking that you can do anything about it.

Unless you're someone who's going to do something to get yourself in a situation like this....

Who the fuck cares?

Live your life like a normal citizen and this isn't an issue for you. What do you have to hide?

Those complaining about a police state battle the same small dick complex as the corrupt cops.

t9LE4: Unless you're someone who's going to do something to get yourself in a situation like this....Who the fuck cares?

____________

We do, Prickboy and we are called CITIZENS. Also, don't hold your breath waiting for that "Citizen of the Year" award in the mail...LOL.

"In your little manifesto you tell us citizens we are to stupid to understand what you do and are not worthy to judge cops."

Given that I never once said anybody was too stupid to understand anything it is a given that you are indeed too stupid to read and henceforth judge cops (or anybody else for that matter).

I'll break my original post down for you and the other jackass that didn't get it either: there already are citizen review boards. They are called juries. There is also the Supreme Court (one in VA and that of the United States) which is made up of citizens. These courts have already made rulings which have guided Police policy for years. I think its fair to say that those who sit in either Supreme Court are there for a reason and, most likely, are smarter then those of us who read Fairfax Underground.

I'll elaborate even more on my position: There are shitty cops out there. There are also shitty waitresses, service technicians, doctors, etc. You have an avenue to complain about all of them without wasting tax payer dollars on unnecessary comittees and "boards." You just choose not to like those avenues.

Lastly, for those of you who keep bitching about the investigation taking 9 months you show even more of your ignorance of due process and any knowledge of what goes into an investigation. A murder investigation, just like a sexual assault, can take a very long time to investigate. Real life isn't Law and Order, 48 Hours, etc, etc, etc. When a cop shoots someone there is a lot more involved then when Johnny shoots Billy on the corner.

Ridiculous Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "In your little manifesto you tell us citizens we
> are to stupid to understand what you do and are
> not worthy to judge cops."
>
> Given that I never once said anybody was too
> stupid to understand anything it is a given that
> you are indeed too stupid to read and henceforth
> judge cops (or anybody else for that matter).
>
> I'll break my original post down for you and the
> other jackass that didn't get it either: there
> already are citizen review boards. They are
> called juries. There is also the Supreme Court
> (one in VA and that of the United States) which is
> made up of citizens. These courts have already
> made rulings which have guided Police policy for
> years. I think its fair to say that those who sit
> in either Supreme Court are there for a reason
> and, most likely, are smarter then those of us who
> read Fairfax Underground.
>
> I'll elaborate even more on my position: There
> are shitty cops out there. There are also shitty
> waitresses, service technicians, doctors, etc.
> You have an avenue to complain about all of them
> without wasting tax payer dollars on unnecessary
> comittees and "boards." You just choose not to
> like those avenues.
>
> Lastly, for those of you who keep bitching about
> the investigation taking 9 months you show even
> more of your ignorance of due process and any
> knowledge of what goes into an investigation. A
> murder investigation, just like a sexual assault,
> can take a very long time to investigate. Real
> life isn't Law and Order, 48 Hours, etc, etc, etc.
> When a cop shoots someone there is a lot more
> involved then when Johnny shoots Billy on the
> corner.

So Officer how the hell is your civilian review board, a jury, render any decision if the cop never gets in front of them? Again, no cop in the history of Fairfax County has ever been brought to a jury for homicide. EXPLAIN THAT and how a jury can be a civilian review board if the FCPD never charges one of their own with an illegal shooting.

Your idiotic example of comparing bad cops with any other profession is so ludicrous it is embarrassing you are allowed to carry a gun and badge. Any profession where the job allows them to kill people legally should be monitored by more than their own. Cops are legally able to take away a persons freedom and life, to try and compare them to waitresses and electricians is asinine.

And lastly "When a cop shoots someone there is a lot more
involved then when Johnny shoots Billy on the corner". Why is there more involved when a cop shoots and kills someone than when anyone shoots and kills anyone? What the hell does that mean? When someone is shot and killed by anyone I would expect the person who shot and killed that person to be investigated and charged with the crime they committed. Why would it matter if it is a cop or anyone else? Your examples again show why we need an outside unbiased review board to review FCPD!

You are allowed to defend yourself from cops. People have killed SWAT faggots who raided the wrong home, and walked free.

remember pigs, a lot of vets with a lot more training and experience are around these days. Better keep it on the up and up.

http://manassas.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/police-father-arrested-in-babys-death

Wait...this murder investigation took almost a year? Must be a police cover up! Quick! Get the Civilian Review Board on the phone!

There ya go, Fucktards.

WTFAYTA, I posted this in another thread but you did not respond. Maybe you can give some answers in this thread.

What experience, training, or expertise do you have to sit and review what police officers do to determine what the officers did was right or wrong?

Please explain who YOU want to be sitting on this "citizen review board" and just what would their training, experience, expertise would these people have? Just what role would this board play? What power would the board have? What type of information would they have access? What would happen to if the board members misused the information they were provided access to?

He was "erratic"? He was in his own home, moron, There is no law against being "erratic" BTW. He threatened and/or hurt no one.

Fairfax cops are just a bunch of thugs, pure and simple.

The FCPD accepts officers with GEDs. Fairfax County has one of the most educated populations in the country.

Tell us again how your "training and experience" makes you somehow more qualified to judge than people who are way, way smarter than you.

Your moronic attitude is typical of FCPD; just like the idiot who crashed his car, blamed it on a citizen, and was then fired for lying about the whole thing. And of course, this board was full of buzz-cut idiots such as yourself shrieking about how "your fellow officer" was so fucking honest and we mere citizens had no right to question his integrity.

Get a real job somewhere other than that thug outfit known as FCPD.

"Wait...this murder investigation took almost a year? Must be a police cover up! Quick! Get the Civilian Review Board on the phone!"

Why; was his name kept a secret too?

What a bunch of pussies - can't even man-up to accept esponsibility when you shoot someone. Just go run behind mommy's skirts, like a bunch of little girls.

Fedup FFX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He was "erratic"? He was in his own home, moron,
> There is no law against being "erratic" BTW. He
> threatened and/or hurt no one.
>
> Fairfax cops are just a bunch of thugs, pure and
> simple.


Well actually...he did make some threats. Go back and read the original news reports.

"I'll break my original post down for you and the other jackass that didn't get it either: there already are citizen review boards. They are called juries."

And your little corrupt deal with the prosecutor's office has insured that not a single officer has ever appeared before a jury. I guess they don't prosecute because they've never been to the police academy, right? WHO ARE THEY TO JUDGE THE POLICE?

I've got more security clearances than you've got teeth in your head, Bubba. You idiots play cop, prosecutor, and jury every day. Everyone in this county is smarter than you. You just don't want review because you know what would happen - your stupidity would be laid bare for all to see.

FedUp Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The FCPD accepts officers with GEDs. Fairfax
> County has one of the most educated populations in
> the country.
>
> Tell us again how your "training and experience"
> makes you somehow more qualified to judge than
> people who are way, way smarter than you.
>
> Your moronic attitude is typical of FCPD; just
> like the idiot who crashed his car, blamed it on a
> citizen, and was then fired for lying about the
> whole thing. And of course, this board was full
> of buzz-cut idiots such as yourself shrieking
> about how "your fellow officer" was so fucking
> honest and we mere citizens had no right to
> question his integrity.
>
> Get a real job somewhere other than that thug
> outfit known as FCPD.

Not even sure what you are trying to say here. If you think there are any officers hired by Fairfax pd with GEDs then you are the idiot. Just because that's listed as the minimum hiring standard does not mean that's what they are hiring. Most officers have 4 year degrees with several having masters. There are still some with no college but most of these are ex-military. Do you have something against veterans?

FedUp Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I'll break my original post down for you and the
> other jackass that didn't get it either: there
> already are citizen review boards. They are called
> juries."
>
> And your little corrupt deal with the prosecutor's
> office has insured that not a single officer has
> ever appeared before a jury. I guess they don't
> prosecute because they've never been to the police
> academy, right? WHO ARE THEY TO JUDGE THE
> POLICE?
>
> I've got more security clearances than you've got
> teeth in your head, Bubba. You idiots play cop,
> prosecutor, and jury every day. Everyone in this
> county is smarter than you. You just don't want
> review because you know what would happen - your
> stupidity would be laid bare for all to see.


Yet another nut case with a security clearance. Just because you have a security clearance does not mean a thing. Plenty of people with security clearances have mental health issues. Navy yard shooter? He is not one example.

"To be considered for employment you must meet the following standards:


High school graduate or possess a valid G.E.D. certificate recognized by the Commonwealth of Virginia."

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/jobs/police-officer.htm

My point is that FCPD suffers from a a serious inferiority complex and makes up for it by acting like unprofessional dicks.

>Navy yard shooter? He is not one example.

Ha..typing too fast again. Meant to say --He is just one example...

"Nut case"?

Point out one innaccuracy in my post; just one.

You're the one who claimed FCPD is above reproach, simply because you say so.

Answers Please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WTFAYTA, I posted this in another thread but you
> did not respond. Maybe you can give some answers
> in this thread.
>
> What experience, training, or expertise do you
> have to sit and review what police officers do to
> determine what the officers did was right or
> wrong?
>
> Please explain who YOU want to be sitting on this
> "citizen review board" and just what would their
> training, experience, expertise would these people
> have? Just what role would this board play? What
> power would the board have? What type of
> information would they have access? What would
> happen to if the board members misused the
> information they were provided access to?

I want an unbiased, peer group that could be ex cops from different jurisdictions, ex military police types, former FBI, we can put together a peer group in 5 minutes in this area. There role would be to be the publics voice in cases just like this, where there is a question of how the FCPD is handling complaints and cases. Can you really provide a plausible argument that Fairfax County could not put together a review board made up of high quality individuals that would be worthy of reviewing police cases in the County?

They would have full access to all information in any individual case brought before them, again these are peers and would be unbiased and not beholden to brother FCPD cops. If they find in their review that something is amiss they would issue a PUBLIC report back to the Board of Supervisors.

Ridiculous Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://manassas.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p
> /police-father-arrested-in-babys-death
>
> Wait...this murder investigation took almost a
> year? Must be a police cover up! Quick! Get the
> Civilian Review Board on the phone!
>
> There ya go, Fucktards.

Well there you go making my argument for me again. Your idiotic post shows me you lack the brains to make a coherent argument against this case or a civilian review board. PLEASE tell us you are not a FCPD Officer? With your lack of mental aptitude it would be dangerous for you to be out there with a gun and badge. If you can muster the mental power to try and provide a clear point against what has been posted previously about this case please try and do so below. If you cannot, then just leave the argument to the grown ups!

Learn to read: "without just cause " is right in front of youyr face.

Obviously you believe that anything a cop says constitutes "just cause", even if he is standing at your door without a warrant.

The guy at the forefront of the citizens review panel is a retired D.C. detective, aka, "A real cop", fucktard.

To me, a Fairfax County home owner, and taxpayer, I believe the answer is simple. We need citizen oversight. The only people who don't want citizen oversight is the FCPD itself. We also have to get rid of the useless unions.

At my last count, the FCPD has only fired one officer for killing an innocent Fairfax resident, and that was Amanda Perry (a woman, not yet part of the boys club).

All the other murders committed by Fairfax County officers, all male, have gone uncharged.

Some police officers who should be in prison right now are actually collecting paychecks and still on the streets. (Detective Baucom and the others.)

If we had citizen oversight, we'd start right at the top and say, "Chief Roessler, you need to fire those criminals, or we fire you and your $300,000/year salary (with benefits) will go to someone who will follow the County's sensibilities.

"The guy at the forefront of the citizens review panel is a retired D.C. detective, aka, "A real cop", fucktard."

1) Glad to hear you survived your time in Metro - not something I'd advertise though...

2) If I was a product of the MPD I'd probably want a civilian review board too. Do you guys even go through an Academy yet?

WTFAYTA - I've addressed your issues. I even gave you a specific example of a murder investigation taking almost a year for a civilian. You clearly lack the brains for basic reading comprehension.

Either that or you choose to ignore counterpoints to a position which is against your own which shows a clear lack of maturity (this from someone who recognizes his lack of maturity with the use of the term "fucktard".) Perhaps you should leave the discussion to the grownups - either that or accept when someone presents a FACT that goes against your OPINION.

A direct quote from WTFAYTA "What in the world could take nine months to investigate this?" - in reference to the police shooting.

Now, when confronted with the case of a civilian who's charged, ten months LATER, in the death of an infant he ignores it and states that I'm somehow proving his argument (mine being that investigations take time...his, not so much).

Here's my last statement on this issue because, frankly, you can't have an intelligent discussion with people who are as uneducated as most of you are. The Supreme Court has sided with cops, time and time again. When a cop commits a crime, he's arrested and goes to jail. I even offered a solution for you to look those up (you clearly declined and instead, once again, base your argument off of OPINION).

Keep on wearing your heart on a sleeve and praying that all of your perceived injustices of the world (or county) will be solved by your incessant braying. I find you really and truly pathetic.

Ridiculous Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The guy at the forefront of the citizens review
> panel is a retired D.C. detective, aka, "A real
> cop", fucktard."
>
> 1) Glad to hear you survived your time in Metro -
> not something I'd advertise though...
>
> 2) If I was a product of the MPD I'd probably want
> a civilian review board too. Do you guys even go
> through an Academy yet?
>
> WTFAYTA - I've addressed your issues. I even gave
> you a specific example of a murder investigation
> taking almost a year for a civilian. You clearly
> lack the brains for basic reading comprehension.
>
> Either that or you choose to ignore counterpoints
> to a position which is against your own which
> shows a clear lack of maturity (this from someone
> who recognizes his lack of maturity with the use
> of the term "fucktard".) Perhaps you should leave
> the discussion to the grownups - either that or
> accept when someone presents a FACT that goes
> against your OPINION.

Are you really this stupid? First I never used the term "Fucktards" that is from a different persons post. So you are wrong again!

Second to try to compare a guy shaking a baby to death and the length of that investigation to that of a guy shooting another guy in broad daylight in front of eyewitnesses is not worth commenting on. Two completely different cases needing different lengths of time and resources. You are still lacking an argument.

Now you go and disrespect another police department to try and make a point, you really are not only stupid but have no class. Seriously, if you want to try and debate this in an adult manner, I would love to hear your answer to your jury "fact" in that FCPD has never in their history charged a FCPD officer with an illegal shooting? How can a jury do anything if the offending officer never goes to trial?

I know you said this was your last word on this and if I were making the stupid comments you are making I would do the same thing.

Ridiculous Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A direct quote from WTFAYTA "What in the world
> could take nine months to investigate this?" - in
> reference to the police shooting.
>
> Now, when confronted with the case of a civilian
> who's charged, ten months LATER, in the death of
> an infant he ignores it and states that I'm
> somehow proving his argument (mine being that
> investigations take time...his, not so much).
>
> Here's my last statement on this issue because,
> frankly, you can't have an intelligent discussion
> with people who are as uneducated as most of you
> are. The Supreme Court has sided with cops, time
> and time again. When a cop commits a crime, he's
> arrested and goes to jail. I even offered a
> solution for you to look those up (you clearly
> declined and instead, once again, base your
> argument off of OPINION).
>
> Keep on wearing your heart on a sleeve and praying
> that all of your perceived injustices of the world
> (or county) will be solved by your incessant
> braying. I find you really and truly pathetic.



Had to make this point again, are you really trying to equate a man who shook a baby to death and the following investigation with a cop who shot an unarmed guy in front of witnesses and video evidence and that investigation? REALLY!! Are you that naive or that biased that you cannot admit that one is a complicated case to make and needs to be handled very deliberately versus a open and shut case where we have eyewitnesses and video of the cop killing an unarmed man. The only reason this is taking this long is because the guy who shot the unarmed guy is a cop.

I also understand that you do not want to make anymore comments on this because you have not made an intelligent one yet? Your diatribes and asinine Supreme Court arguments hold no water, "The Supreme Court has sided with cops, time and time again. When a cop commits a crime, he's arrested and goes to jail." What the hell does this mean? If the Supreme Court has sided with cops again and again, why would they go to jail? You want to try that one again, and this time try and make some sense with your statement.

I am truly afraid that you might actually be a Fairfax County Police Officer! It terrifies me to think that someone as stupid as you might be out there with a badge and a gun. Please assure us that you are either a Mall cop or a Night Security guy who wants to be a cop but couldn't pass the mental aptitude test. Can you do that for all of our benefits?

FedUp Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Nut case"?
>
> Point out one innaccuracy in my post; just one.
>
> You're the one who claimed FCPD is above reproach,
> simply because you say so.


Um..I never said they were beyond reproach

FedUp Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The guy at the forefront of the citizens review
> panel is a retired D.C. detective, aka, "A real
> cop", fucktard.


Your right, he was. If I recall the article the Washington Post did on him, the retired as a detective from the DC sex assault unit. The article did not talk much about his job at the DC police. I may have that name wrong but this is the same unit that has been in the papers the last few years for all the fuck ups and mishandling of 100s, yes 100s, of rape and sexual assault cases going back to the 80s.Sounds like the guy I want heading a review board here in Fairfax.

WTFAYTA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answers Please Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WTFAYTA, I posted this in another thread but
> you
> > did not respond. Maybe you can give some
> answers
> > in this thread.
> >
> > What experience, training, or expertise do you
> > have to sit and review what police officers do
> to
> > determine what the officers did was right or
> > wrong?
> >
> > Please explain who YOU want to be sitting on
> this
> > "citizen review board" and just what would
> their
> > training, experience, expertise would these
> people
> > have? Just what role would this board play?
> What
> > power would the board have? What type of
> > information would they have access? What would
> > happen to if the board members misused the
> > information they were provided access to?
>
> I want an unbiased, peer group that could be ex
> cops from different jurisdictions, ex military
> police types, former FBI, we can put together a
> peer group in 5 minutes in this area. There role
> would be to be the publics voice in cases just
> like this, where there is a question of how the
> FCPD is handling complaints and cases. Can you
> really provide a plausible argument that Fairfax
> County could not put together a review board made
> up of high quality individuals that would be
> worthy of reviewing police cases in the County?
>
> They would have full access to all information in
> any individual case brought before them, again
> these are peers and would be unbiased and not
> beholden to brother FCPD cops. If they find in
> their review that something is amiss they would
> issue a PUBLIC report back to the Board of
> Supervisors.


That would not be a bad idea. Who picks the "peer review board"? The board of supervisors? The police department? I don't think I would trust either one.

Where would the money come from? I highly doubt a ex FBI agent or police chief would do this for free. Who decides which cases they review? If my car was stolen and I do like how the case was handled, would the review board review my case?

Again, you did not address release of information. As a parent, I do not want my child's information being released to the public. So if say a girl (I have 2 boys) gets raped in a school bathroom and this case makes in front of the review board, are you saying this should be open to the public? Including details of my child personal life?

About another case, the suicide of the woodson high school student from last year. A lot of details of that case were never made public because it was a suicide. A lot of people think there was a cover up with that case. So should all the families private stuff be released to the news?

Under what you suggest, this would all be made public because such details are normally included in police investigations. Not to release all information would lead us back to where we are now, people upset because only some information is being released.

You are not very well informed on several subjects. Let me point them out to you.

Citizen Oversight Committee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To me, a Fairfax County home owner, and taxpayer,
> I believe the answer is simple. We need citizen
> oversight. The only people who don't want citizen
> oversight is the FCPD itself. We also have to get
> rid of the useless unions.

I am also a resident and tax payer. I do not want a review board as described by the group pushing it. They are a mess in several other parts of the county.

Also not sure what a union has to do with anything in this discussion. I hate unions but Virginia is a right to work state. A union has no power in Virginia. Talk with an officer and they will tell you their unions really do not do much in Fairfax. Maybe you think you live in Maryland or DC where the unions do have some power.
>
> At my last count, the FCPD has only fired one
> officer for killing an innocent Fairfax resident,
> and that was Amanda Perry (a woman, not yet part
> of the boys club).

Well you are wrong. Perry was not fired for the accident. I believe it was some kind of theft or fraud.

The officer that was fired for shooting somebody was the one on Richmond highway in Alexandria.

> All the other murders committed by Fairfax County
> officers, all male, have gone uncharged.

Well you are wrong here also. None of these have been murders according to the commonwealth attorney.

Also, one of the cases involving a police officer in Fairfax county shooting somebody was a WOMAN back in the late 80's or in the 90's. If I recall correctly, she shot an unarmed drug dealer, never charged. I am sure there are more but that was just I one I read about here.

> Some police officers who should be in prison right
> now are actually collecting paychecks and still on
> the streets. (Detective Baucom and the others.)

Who did he kill or why should this officer be in prison??


> If we had citizen oversight, we'd start right at
> the top and say, "Chief Roessler, you need to fire
> those criminals, or we fire you and your
> $300,000/year salary (with benefits) will go to
> someone who will follow the County's
> sensibilities.

Um there is such a board or group. Its could your elected county board of supervisors.

Yet another nut case..... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WTFAYTA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Answers Please Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > WTFAYTA, I posted this in another thread but
> > you
> > > did not respond. Maybe you can give some
> > answers
> > > in this thread.
> > >
> > > What experience, training, or expertise do
> you
> > > have to sit and review what police officers
> do
> > to
> > > determine what the officers did was right or
> > > wrong?
> > >
> > > Please explain who YOU want to be sitting on
> > this
> > > "citizen review board" and just what would
> > their
> > > training, experience, expertise would these
> > people
> > > have? Just what role would this board play?
> > What
> > > power would the board have? What type of
> > > information would they have access? What
> would
> > > happen to if the board members misused the
> > > information they were provided access to?
> >
> > I want an unbiased, peer group that could be ex
> > cops from different jurisdictions, ex military
> > police types, former FBI, we can put together a
> > peer group in 5 minutes in this area. There
> role
> > would be to be the publics voice in cases just
> > like this, where there is a question of how the
> > FCPD is handling complaints and cases. Can you
> > really provide a plausible argument that
> Fairfax
> > County could not put together a review board
> made
> > up of high quality individuals that would be
> > worthy of reviewing police cases in the County?
> >
> > They would have full access to all information
> in
> > any individual case brought before them, again
> > these are peers and would be unbiased and not
> > beholden to brother FCPD cops. If they find in
> > their review that something is amiss they would
> > issue a PUBLIC report back to the Board of
> > Supervisors.
>
>
> That would not be a bad idea. Who picks the "peer
> review board"? The board of supervisors? The
> police department? I don't think I would trust
> either one.
>
> Where would the money come from? I highly doubt a
> ex FBI agent or police chief would do this for
> free. Who decides which cases they review? If my
> car was stolen and I do like how the case was
> handled, would the review board review my case?
>
> Again, you did not address release of information.
> As a parent, I do not want my child's information
> being released to the public. So if say a girl (I
> have 2 boys) gets raped in a school bathroom and
> this case makes in front of the review board, are
> you saying this should be open to the public?
> Including details of my child personal life?
>
> About another case, the suicide of the woodson
> high school student from last year. A lot of
> details of that case were never made public
> because it was a suicide. A lot of people think
> there was a cover up with that case. So should all
> the families private stuff be released to the
> news?
>
> Under what you suggest, this would all be made
> public because such details are normally included
> in police investigations. Not to release all
> information would lead us back to where we are
> now, people upset because only some information is
> being released.


I think we are getting into a lot of details that I am confident would be fairly easy to work through. They are all good questions and the fact that there are hundreds of Civilian Review Boards out there already, I am sure a model can be found that would fit our area and demographic.

I am also fairly confident that this Board would be a volunteer position, I have to believe there are enough good citizens in this area who are qualified to sit on the board who would volunteer their time to make sure their police force was performing above reproach. I would think that the criteria for reviewing a case would be that the immediate family or person who had the complaint would bring the case before the board and ask that it be reviewed. If someone does not want their case made public I would not be reviewed.

Now this is how a topic is supposed to be discussed or debated, no need for name calling or questioning ones education or motives.... a simple question and answer and if you do not agree with the answer you disagree and list facts that support your argument. Some people on here can learn a lot from reading and learning from this encounter.. I am talking to you ridiculous

Article from the Wash Post at 7 month mark of investigation. Couple of points really jump out are, previous 2 shootings by FCPD took less than 3 months to investigate and rule on. Fact that everyone agrees he was unarmed at time of shooting and what's the hold up?


The clock keeps ticking, and that’s about the only sound emanating from the investigation into the death of John Geer. Geer, 46, was unarmed when he was shot to death by a Fairfax County police officer on Aug. 29. It has now been seven months and there is still no explanation from the Fairfax police, prosecutors or federal investigators about how and why this happened, and whether or not it was legally justifiable.
Geer was standing in the doorway of his home in Springfield, speaking to an officer who had his service weapon drawn. Geer’s girlfriend and two daughters had fled the home. Geer was distraught, had thrown his girlfriend’s clothes out of the house and had been drinking, witnesses have told The Post, and there was a gun in his townhouse on Pebble Brook Court. But he did not have the gun on him, a fact which was clearly visible as he stood with his hands high on a door frame, dressed in shorts. As Geer stood speaking to the still unnamed officer, the officer fired one shot into Geer’s chest, witnesses told The Post. Geer staggered back into the house and closed the door. Police waited another hour before going in, where they found Geer dead.
The unanswered questions are the same as they were on Aug. 29, as is the silence from Official Fairfax. Why did the police create a “barricade situation” with one man alone in a townhouse? Why did the officer shoot? And why did the police take so long to render aid to a man they knew had been shot in the chest at close range? We can speculate as to the answers, but the taxpayer-funded Fairfax County police and prosecutor absolutely owe clear, definitive answers to the public and to Geer’s family, and it is utterly baffling that this has turned into the most drawn-out police shooting case in Fairfax County history.
Also waiting for an answer is the still-unnamed officer. He has been on desk duty for seven months. Maybe he was perfectly justified in his actions. He also deserves an answer, one way or the other. Once a ruling is issued on criminal charges, the police internal investigation will begin, drawing out his process even further.
In February, at the five-month mark of the investigation, Fairfax Commonwealth’s Attorney Ray Morrogh said he was passing the case to the U.S. attorney’s office in Alexandria, because of a possible conflict of interest. He would not specify the conflict, and said he had not intentionally delayed the case for five months. Of the three previous most notorious police shootings in Fairfax, Morrogh and his predecessor Robert Horan took no more than two-and-a-half months to rule on the criminal liability of a shooting. Each time, they found none.
Fairfax County Police Chief Edwin Roessler said in February that he had been in touch with the family and promised accountability. Both he and Morrogh declined to comment Tuesday as the case passed the seven-month mark, as did acting U.S. Attorney Dana Boente in Alexandria.
Geer’s family has been notably quiet throughout this seven-month period. Their lawyer, Mike Lieberman of Alexandria, declined to comment Tuesday. In February, after Morrogh announced he was handing the case to the feds, Geer’s father, Don Geer, told The Post: “I don’t know whether that’s good or bad — if I had a better idea of why they are doing it, I could form an opinion.”

Brian Buchner is president of the National Association for Civilian Oversight of Law Enforcement, a large group of local police oversight groups. Of the Fairfax case, Buchner said: “While not typical, there are cases where a prosecutor’s decision in an officer-involved shooting case has taken seven months or longer to make.” Buchner works for the Los Angeles Police Commission’s inspector general, and L.A. has literally dozens of police shootings every year. So he should know.
It is cases like the death of John Geer that led to the formation of the Virginia Citizens Coalition for Police Accountability, in particular the 2009 Fairfax police killing of unarmed motorist David Masters on Route 1 in the Alexandria area. The coalition has continued to press for some sort of formal civilian oversight on police actions, as is done in many other large jurisdictions, including the District. When the police shoot and kill someone, and then remain completely silent for seven months, it’s hard to vouch for the reliability of the current system where the police investigate the police.

WaPo stuff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Article from the Wash Post at 7 month mark of
> investigation. Couple of points really jump out
> are, previous 2 shootings by FCPD took less than 3
> months to investigate and rule on. Fact that
> everyone agrees he was unarmed at time of shooting
> and what's the hold up?

Well from how I read into this and from my knowledge of how police investigations and prosecutor's work in Virginia...

The police investigation HAS BEEN DONE for a while now.

The case was turned over to the county prosecutor to review and determine to file charges or not.

After several months of having the case, the county prosecutor saw something he did not like and decided to request federal assistance in the case. There maybe several reasons here for what the prosecutor did.

The case is now being investigated/reviewed by the feds.

Why don't you call the feds and ask them what is taking so long. My bet the feds will not decide on this for at least another year.

I love it when people blame the cops for how long this is taking. The police role in this has been done for a while now. They are probably waiting and wishing it was done also. One reason is because they can not finish their internal investigation until the criminal case has been finished. Meaning they can not fire or discipline the officer until then.

Interesting thread and here is a good Question: Who will be in charge of the Civilian Review Board? If they are not County employees or law enforcement, the FCPD will NOT release any investigative findings to them. That means they will be paid County employees and therefore, not rule against the County.

If they are just citizens, then you have FOIA hurdles to cross. The Civil Service Board is made up of citizens. But here is the catch. The director of Civil Service is a County employee. So the County trains these citizens to be on the board and can influence their decisions. There are no posted rules for Civil Service Board to follow which is what makes them a joke and always pro-County and anti-employee.

Who pays and runs the other jurisdictions Civilian Oversight groups? Are those biased or fair? What authority do they have when their findings are in contradiction to a police department finding? And isn't there already a mechanism in place when a police department violates somebody's Civil Rights (just as shooting them dead unjustified), it is called the FBI. Has Geer's family formally complained to the FBI yet?

wondering on this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting thread and here is a good Question:
> Who will be in charge of the Civilian Review
> Board? If they are not County employees or law
> enforcement, the FCPD will NOT release any
> investigative findings to them. That means they
> will be paid County employees and therefore, not
> rule against the County.
>
> If they are just citizens, then you have FOIA
> hurdles to cross. The Civil Service Board is made
> up of citizens. But here is the catch. The
> director of Civil Service is a County employee. So
> the County trains these citizens to be on the
> board and can influence their decisions. There
> are no posted rules for Civil Service Board to
> follow which is what makes them a joke and always
> pro-County and anti-employee.
>
> Who pays and runs the other jurisdictions Civilian
> Oversight groups? Are those biased or fair? What
> authority do they have when their findings are in
> contradiction to a police department finding? And
> isn't there already a mechanism in place when a
> police department violates somebody's Civil Rights
> (just as shooting them dead unjustified), it is
> called the FBI. Has Geer's family formally
> complained to the FBI yet?


My best guess is that the Geer family has come to terms with the fact that there son was murdered by the FCPD and they are laying low waiting to see what the County is going to do criminally as they wait for the opportunity to sue in civil court for millions. In the article above it makes it clear that they have an attorney and they are waiting for a ruling. Either way they will get paid millions for this cops wrongful shooting and I am sure their attorney is telling them not to make any public comments.

As far as the Civilian Review Board is concerned if they are reporting back to the Board of Supervisors they should have access to any and all evidence when it comes to any case brought before them. They will be working on behalf of the Board and should have full autonomy in their review. If the police do not cooperate they will be sanctioned and careers will die in the process. This needs to happen if not only to save lives but to save the County millions in Civil suits.

Yet another nut case..... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WaPo stuff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Article from the Wash Post at 7 month mark of
> > investigation. Couple of points really jump out
> > are, previous 2 shootings by FCPD took less than
> 3
> > months to investigate and rule on. Fact that
> > everyone agrees he was unarmed at time of
> shooting
> > and what's the hold up?
>
> Well from how I read into this and from my
> knowledge of how police investigations and
> prosecutor's work in Virginia...
>
> The police investigation HAS BEEN DONE for a while
> now.
>
> The case was turned over to the county prosecutor
> to review and determine to file charges or not.
>
> After several months of having the case, the
> county prosecutor saw something he did not like
> and decided to request federal assistance in the
> case. There maybe several reasons here for what
> the prosecutor did.
>
> The case is now being investigated/reviewed by the
> feds.
>
> Why don't you call the feds and ask them what is
> taking so long. My bet the feds will not decide on
> this for at least another year.
>
> I love it when people blame the cops for how long
> this is taking. The police role in this has been
> done for a while now. They are probably waiting
> and wishing it was done also. One reason is
> because they can not finish their internal
> investigation until the criminal case has been
> finished. Meaning they can not fire or discipline
> the officer until then.


So according to you they have ruled this a bad shooting and handed it to the DA and he is the one delaying the charges? OR they ruled it a clean shoot and he does not feel comfortable with that, and is looking to the Feds for help. Which do you believe it is?

CPRB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>>So according to you they have ruled this a bad shooting and handed it to the DA and he is the one delaying the charges? OR they ruled it a clean shoot and he does not feel comfortable with that, and is looking to the Feds for help. Which do you believe it is?

Sorry CPRB...I am not following your question.

If you are asking if the police ruled if the shooting is justified? Its not the role of the police to rule if the shooting was justified, its the prosecutor's job to decide. Talking criminally here. I would guess the prosecutor has an issue with something and that is why he turned it over to the feds. As far I have read, the prosecutor has not publicly decided if the shooting was a criminal act or not. Again, the prosecutor decides if this is a crime or not, just like if you walked in and shot your wife right now. They do not decide to charge with murder, the prosecutor does.

Now if you are talking about the internal investigation the police should be doing to determine if there were any violation of department rules...again...the police can not conduct that investigation until the CRIMINAL case is complete including the prosecutor ruling if this was a criminal act or not. Only once that ruling is made can the internal investigation take place. So no, there has been no ruling if any rules were broken either if the department is following the rules.

Guessing here Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as the Civilian Review Board is concerned
> if they are reporting back to the Board of
> Supervisors they should have access to any and all
> evidence when it comes to any case brought before
> them. They will be working on behalf of the Board
> and should have full autonomy in their review. If
> the police do not cooperate they will be
> sanctioned and careers will die in the process.
> This needs to happen if not only to save lives but
> to save the County millions in Civil suits.

Well this raises more questions or goes back to some of the same ones I have asked before. Also nobody has said what legal authority this board would have? At what point would it take place in the criminal/civil/discipline process.

Lets use the Greer case as an example. If there was a review board, at what point do they review the case? While the police are doing their investigation? While the prosecutor is reviewing the case? While the police are doing their internal investigation? After the civil case is over?

Still way more questions about such board then answers.

Name one jurisdiction in Virginia with a working review board.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2014 08:32AM by chuckhoffmann.

Yet another nut case..... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CPRB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >>So according to you they have ruled this a bad
> shooting and handed it to the DA and he is the one
> delaying the charges? OR they ruled it a clean
> shoot and he does not feel comfortable with that,
> and is looking to the Feds for help. Which do you
> believe it is?
>
> Sorry CPRB...I am not following your question.
>
> If you are asking if the police ruled if the
> shooting is justified? Its not the role of the
> police to rule if the shooting was justified, its
> the prosecutor's job to decide. Talking criminally
> here. I would guess the prosecutor has an issue
> with something and that is why he turned it over
> to the feds. As far I have read, the prosecutor
> has not publicly decided if the shooting was a
> criminal act or not. Again, the prosecutor decides
> if this is a crime or not, just like if you walked
> in and shot your wife right now. They do not
> decide to charge with murder, the prosecutor
> does.
>
> Now if you are talking about the internal
> investigation the police should be doing to
> determine if there were any violation of
> department rules...again...the police can not
> conduct that investigation until the CRIMINAL case
> is complete including the prosecutor ruling if
> this was a criminal act or not. Only once that
> ruling is made can the internal investigation take
> place. So no, there has been no ruling if any
> rules were broken either if the department is
> following the rules.


This is biggest catch 22 BS I have ever heard. They can't investigate this until this is ruled on but this can't be ruled until they are presented the findings of an investigation.... WHAT?

Let's wrap some common sense around this whole thing and charge the cop with an illegal shooting, make a deal with the family on move on to the next FCPD fuck up. Hopefully the next one won't cost someone their life.

DaTruth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yet another nut case..... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > CPRB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >>So according to you they have ruled this a
> bad
> > shooting and handed it to the DA and he is the
> one
> > delaying the charges? OR they ruled it a clean
> > shoot and he does not feel comfortable with
> that,
> > and is looking to the Feds for help. Which do
> you
> > believe it is?
> >
> > Sorry CPRB...I am not following your question.
> >
> > If you are asking if the police ruled if the
> > shooting is justified? Its not the role of the
> > police to rule if the shooting was justified,
> its
> > the prosecutor's job to decide. Talking
> criminally
> > here. I would guess the prosecutor has an issue
> > with something and that is why he turned it
> over
> > to the feds. As far I have read, the prosecutor
> > has not publicly decided if the shooting was a
> > criminal act or not. Again, the prosecutor
> decides
> > if this is a crime or not, just like if you
> walked
> > in and shot your wife right now. They do not
> > decide to charge with murder, the prosecutor
> > does.
> >
> > Now if you are talking about the internal
> > investigation the police should be doing to
> > determine if there were any violation of
> > department rules...again...the police can not
> > conduct that investigation until the CRIMINAL
> case
> > is complete including the prosecutor ruling if
> > this was a criminal act or not. Only once that
> > ruling is made can the internal investigation
> take
> > place. So no, there has been no ruling if any
> > rules were broken either if the department is
> > following the rules.
>
>
> This is biggest catch 22 BS I have ever heard.
> They can't investigate this until this is ruled on
> but this can't be ruled until they are presented
> the findings of an investigation.... WHAT?
>
> Let's wrap some common sense around this whole
> thing and charge the cop with an illegal shooting,
> make a deal with the family on move on to the next
> FCPD fuck up. Hopefully the next one won't cost
> someone their life.

Its not double talk. The homicide cops do a criminal investigation for police shootings. Just like they would for anybody killed by another person. The homicide cops then gives all the case material to the prosecutor for them to decide if there should be criminal charges. The prosecutor then decides to file charges. This is the same way its done for every homicide.

The IA cops do their investigation into if the cop broke any department rules. This is an IA investigation. There are two different investigations done by two different groups for two different reasons. The IA case takes place after the criminal investigation. Or this is how it should work. The cop has all the same rights as you do when it comes to the criminal case. The cop does not have to say a word during this investigation. In the IA case, the cop has to make a statement and has no rights to have an attorney. If the cop refuses or lies then they are fired. However, anything they say during this statement can not be used against them in a criminal case. This is why it is important to have separate investigations. If they don't keep them separate, then a good defense lawyer could get the whole entire criminal case tossed out

DaTruth is what you need ... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the IA case, the cop has to make
> a statement and has no rights to have an attorney.
> If the cop refuses or lies then they are fired.
> However, anything they say during this statement
> can not be used against them in a criminal case.
> This is why it is important to have separate
> investigations. If they don't keep them separate,
> then a good defense lawyer could get the whole
> entire criminal case tossed out.

Correct. However, do not ever think the IA case is remotely fair. If they want you gone for whatever reason, the Department will manufacture reasons (or make them up) just to get rid out you. System is on their side. Officers do not have fair rights in these proceedings.

And if they want to cover up something illegal, they simply will say the officer was in compliance with policy. That way they are not liable in civil court.

wants accountability when blacks get arrested not when whites get mexicans stealing tax dollars

screw off that's not the kind of accountability an accountant does

if you go in a black neighborhood (a rich one funded by democrats, townhouises) like miss priss without a gun thinking

without a gun thinking everythign is peachy your safe there

you've never been held at gunpoint by them at least once

you haven't been stolen from many times. or really: you have your an idiot they got away with it

why does the officer have a gun drawn ?

because they are cop killers you fool

DaTruth isnt what you always get Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DaTruth is what you need ... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In the IA case, the cop has to make
> > a statement and has no rights to have an
> attorney.
> > If the cop refuses or lies then they are fired.
> > However, anything they say during this
> statement
> > can not be used against them in a criminal
> case.
> > This is why it is important to have separate
> > investigations. If they don't keep them
> separate,
> > then a good defense lawyer could get the whole
> > entire criminal case tossed out.
>
> Correct. However, do not ever think the IA case is
> remotely fair. If they want you gone for whatever
> reason, the Department will manufacture reasons
> (or make them up) just to get rid out you. System
> is on their side. Officers do not have fair rights
> in these proceedings.
>
> And if they want to cover up something illegal,
> they simply will say the officer was in compliance
> with policy. That way they are not liable in
> civil court.


Are you trying to say the Police in this case will not get a fair investigation by IA? If anything the FCPD IA department is owned by the rank and file cops how else can you explain not one illegal shooting in the County history?

>
> Are you trying to say the Police in this case will
> not get a fair investigation by IA? If anything
> the FCPD IA department is owned by the rank and
> file cops how else can you explain not one illegal
> shooting in the County history?


You have it all wrong. IA does their investigation. It is what happens with the file that nobody ever gets to see. The Command Staff / Chief then make decisions based on whatever they feel like doing. Whether there is evidence for or against the officer. It is all politics. Many investigators get influenced by Command Staff to change their findings. Get this clear. NOBODY SEES THE IA FILE...to include attorneys, officers, or hearing boards. The County gives them parts of the file (what they want them to see). There are examples of hearing boards ordering the County to give up the files and the County refuses to do so because there is no accountability (The County runs the hearing and break their own rules with no consequences). So nobody sees or can verify the IA findings.

There are examples of Officers getting recommended to termination for not doing a thing wrong. The officer resigns instead of getting terminated. Then you have the head of IA telling somebody that the officer should have fought it because he would still have his job because there was no evidence against him. Bottom line is that they make up lies. Now, there are more examples of officers fighting the charges...and Command Staff admits that their decisions are subjective with no evidence. They make stuff up and the system protects them.

FCPD is not owned by the rank and file. The rank and file are furious over the system because it is stacked against them. The rank and file's morale have never been lower because of Command Staff for several years now. IA is owned by the Majors and the Chief of Police.

Fairfax County Police will NEVER admit that they did an illegal shooting. Once again, the IA file is protected. That is why the County tries to settle out of court without the case going to public court. The example above was the Route 1 shooting where the officer resigned instead of being terminated. The IA case cleared him. But because of all the public pressure and politics, they recommended termination and scared the young officer into resigning. And that was only after the case was settled with the family. They recommended termination as a concession to the family? Politics.

So no, the officers do not get a fair investigation simply for the fact that the Chief will never uphold anything that goes against the County. He wants to protect his job. The Chief gets lifetime health insurance if he lasts his term (usually 5 years). Therefore, he will never EVER go against the Board of Supervisors and put the County on the line. Also, the system of grievances is stacked against the officer.

The internal process of IA is a joke. They (Command Staff) do whatever they feel like. They wont go against another Commander's decision because that would create waves and possibly prevent them from future promotion.

As far as this shooting case, it is the prosecutor office's job to bring criminal charges. In prior years, they never decided to bring charges against an officer. That has nothing to do with the police department. In this case, the prosecutor saw something that concerned him. So instead of bringing the case to trial (scared to because of politics), he deferred the decision to another agency. That way, the political decision to bring charges or not...does not rest him him and make him look bad. It is all politics.

So yes, if it is an illegal shooting and the County is liable, then IA will screw the officer. If the County can somehow portray this as a good shooting, IA will say the officer is in compliance to avoid liability. Then the County will offer the family a minimal amount to drop the civil law suit.

If it were me, I would file a Civil Suit and go to court to get all the corrupt procedures out in media. I would also file a complaint with the FBI to investigate any Civil Rights violations by the FCPD. Then it would be a fair investigation.

so so sad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Are you trying to say the Police in this case
> will
> > not get a fair investigation by IA? If
> anything
> > the FCPD IA department is owned by the rank and
> > file cops how else can you explain not one
> illegal
> > shooting in the County history?
>
>
> You have it all wrong. IA does their
> investigation. It is what happens with the file
> that nobody ever gets to see. The Command Staff /
> Chief then make decisions based on whatever they
> feel like doing. Whether there is evidence for or
> against the officer. It is all politics. Many
> investigators get influenced by Command Staff to
> change their findings. Get this clear. NOBODY
> SEES THE IA FILE...to include attorneys, officers,
> or hearing boards. The County gives them parts of
> the file (what they want them to see). There are
> examples of hearing boards ordering the County to
> give up the files and the County refuses to do so
> because there is no accountability (The County
> runs the hearing and break their own rules with no
> consequences). So nobody sees or can verify the
> IA findings.
>
> There are examples of Officers getting recommended
> to termination for not doing a thing wrong. The
> officer resigns instead of getting terminated.
> Then you have the head of IA telling somebody that
> the officer should have fought it because he would
> still have his job because there was no evidence
> against him. Bottom line is that they make up
> lies. Now, there are more examples of officers
> fighting the charges...and Command Staff admits
> that their decisions are subjective with no
> evidence. They make stuff up and the system
> protects them.
>
> FCPD is not owned by the rank and file. The rank
> and file are furious over the system because it is
> stacked against them. The rank and file's morale
> have never been lower because of Command Staff for
> several years now. IA is owned by the Majors and
> the Chief of Police.
>
> Fairfax County Police will NEVER admit that they
> did an illegal shooting. Once again, the IA file
> is protected. That is why the County tries to
> settle out of court without the case going to
> public court. The example above was the Route 1
> shooting where the officer resigned instead of
> being terminated. The IA case cleared him. But
> because of all the public pressure and politics,
> they recommended termination and scared the young
> officer into resigning. And that was only after
> the case was settled with the family. They
> recommended termination as a concession to the
> family? Politics.
>
> So no, the officers do not get a fair
> investigation simply for the fact that the Chief
> will never uphold anything that goes against the
> County. He wants to protect his job. The Chief
> gets lifetime health insurance if he lasts his
> term (usually 5 years). Therefore, he will never
> EVER go against the Board of Supervisors and put
> the County on the line. Also, the system of
> grievances is stacked against the officer.
>
> The internal process of IA is a joke. They
> (Command Staff) do whatever they feel like. They
> wont go against another Commander's decision
> because that would create waves and possibly
> prevent them from future promotion.
>
> As far as this shooting case, it is the prosecutor
> office's job to bring criminal charges. In prior
> years, they never decided to bring charges against
> an officer. That has nothing to do with the
> police department. In this case, the prosecutor
> saw something that concerned him. So instead of
> bringing the case to trial (scared to because of
> politics), he deferred the decision to another
> agency. That way, the political decision to bring
> charges or not...does not rest him him and make
> him look bad. It is all politics.
>
> So yes, if it is an illegal shooting and the
> County is liable, then IA will screw the officer.
> If the County can somehow portray this as a good
> shooting, IA will say the officer is in compliance
> to avoid liability. Then the County will offer
> the family a minimal amount to drop the civil law
> suit.
>
> If it were me, I would file a Civil Suit and go to
> court to get all the corrupt procedures out in
> media. I would also file a complaint with the FBI
> to investigate any Civil Rights violations by the
> FCPD. Then it would be a fair investigation.


So if all this is true, why hasn't a FCPD cop ever been charged with an illegal shooting? This even more of a reason to have a civilian review board to keep everyone honest.

>
>
> So if all this is true, why hasn't a FCPD cop ever
> been charged with an illegal shooting? This even
> more of a reason to have a civilian review board
> to keep everyone honest.


Are you an idiot? FCPD would never want to charge one on their officers. If they did, then they are automatically admitting fault and opening the County to a major lawsuit. The Commonwealth Attorney Office and the FCPD work very well together and it is all politics. That is why they don't want to charge the cop and never have. Because this case stinks, the CA referred it out.

FCPD would never ever cooperate with a Civilian Review Board and the Board of Supervisors would never allow it. There is no law requiring a Civilian Review Board and no law establishing practices of a Civilian Review Board in VA. Bottom line is that Fairfax County can do as they wish. A Civilian Review board would learn of the secrets, deceit, and unfavorable practices that the FCPD does.

I agree that a Civilian Review Board would be great. I don't think you will ever see it due to political reasons.

If the FBI investigates, they don't care about local jurisdictions. If there is a violation, then they will criminally charge. Question is: has the FBI ever investigation one of these so called "unjustified" shootings?

So if all this is true, why hasn't a FCPD cop ever
> been charged with an illegal shooting? This even
> more of a reason to have a civilian review board
> to keep everyone honest.

helped you with that.

I just truly wonder why if the Civilian Review Board (and are these volunteer or paid positions we are talking about, taxpayers) is such a hot thing, why there hasnt been a public outcry for one ever. Never seen in on the ballot before, is all I'm saying.............................

p.s. if you want to stay alive, dont scare the cop holding a gun at you - unarmed or not :(

Somebody posted the still pictures of the shooting. Why not post the video?

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> p.s. if you want to stay alive, dont scare the cop
> holding a gun at you - unarmed or not :(


Gordon I hope to God you are not trying to justify this cop shooting this guy because he dropped his hands from above his head to shoulder height. What's even worse is they let him lay there and bleed out for an hour before they attempted to enter and help him.

so so sad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somebody posted the still pictures of the
> shooting. Why not post the video?

No video exists of the shooting. The stills posted were from a video that was shown on NBC4 and was recorded by an amateur prior to the shooting who was ordered to go back inside their house by FCPD.

It was offered for sale, but NBC4 declined to purchase it because it didn't show the "weenie", that is, it didn't show the actual shooting.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Shots-Fired-at-Springfield-Va-Home-221693811.html

DaTruth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > p.s. if you want to stay alive, dont scare the
> cop
> > holding a gun at you - unarmed or not :(
>
>
> Gordon I hope to God you are not trying to justify
> this cop shooting this guy because he dropped his
> hands from above his head to shoulder height.
> What's even worse is they let him lay there and
> bleed out for an hour before they attempted to
> enter and help him.

was not trying to justify shit. I barely even know this story so I dont know all the details at all. Kinda curious why y'all see this as news. FCPD got away with killing that dude at the poker game, and that was TOTALLY blatant and none of y'all pushed thru a Civvie Board on the ballot back then.....................this new guy was a psycho that caused a neighborhood lockdown - it's gonna be harder to get more people on your bandwagon on this one than that other one, is my point. But if it's on the ballot, I'd vote for it.

Anyways, all I know is if you find yourself at the business end of a service weapon, you BEST FUCKING BET is to follow police instruction. Q.E.D.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DaTruth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> FCPD got away with killing that dude at the poker
> game, and that was TOTALLY blatant


What dude at a poker game?

Are you talking about the FCPD SWAT team raid on the gambling house in Great Falls where the off-duty Haymarket Police where providing security?

Say what-- Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DaTruth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > FCPD got away with killing that dude at the
> poker
> > game, and that was TOTALLY blatant
>
>
> What dude at a poker game?


Nah, you mean Dr. Sol Culo see, the eye doctor/ bookie/ coke dealer. That was just a str8 up fuck up. A member of a highly trained, released from patrol duty unit broke the cardinal rule about moving with your finger INSIDE the triggerguard. If that was a regular patrol officer that happened to be a member of the normaal demographic makeup of the Dept., the Feds would have charged him for 42 USC 1983 violation.

get your story str8 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Say what-- Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > DaTruth Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> >
> > > FCPD got away with killing that dude at the
> > poker
> > > game, and that was TOTALLY blatant
> >
> >
> > What dude at a poker game?
>
>
> Nah, you mean Dr. Sol Culo see, the eye doctor/
> bookie/ coke dealer. That was just a str8 up fuck
> up. A member of a highly trained, released from
> patrol duty unit broke the cardinal rule about
> moving with your finger INSIDE the triggerguard.
> If that was a regular patrol officer that happened
> to be a member of the normaal demographic makeup
> of the Dept., the Feds would have charged him for
> 42 USC 1983 violation.


So now he was a Coke Dealer as well as a Big Time Bookie? Just another example of the FCPD trashing the victim to try and justify their murders. What should we expect on this latest victim, turns out he had a Meth Lab in his basement and isn't it fortuitous that we were able to kill him before he was able to kill any of our kids with his poison.

Wow you cops are unbelievable, yea it was a straight up fuck up... So what should we anticipate in the FCPD report: yo Dude my bad!

And what happened to the officers involved in the shooting?
-Officer Bullock (later promoted to Sergeant)
-SWAT Leader Lt. Kellam (transferred to cushy IA Investigator job with better hours)
-then Chief of Police Rohrer (promoted to Deputy County Executive).

Nothing will change. People need to file FOIA requests and question them all the time. The internal politics of the Department are just as bad.

fade away Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And what happened to the officers involved in the
> shooting?
> -Officer Bullock (later promoted to Sergeant)
> -SWAT Leader Lt. Kellam (transferred to cushy IA
> Investigator job with better hours)
> -then Chief of Police Rohrer (promoted to Deputy
> County Executive).
>
> Nothing will change. People need to file FOIA
> requests and question them all the time. The
> internal politics of the Department are just as
> bad.


This last one may have turned the tide! They are delaying for a reason and as someone mentioned this CP does not want to be the first one who charges a FCPD officer with an illegal shooting. They can only delay so long before the public will turn to something else besides the FCPD policing themselves.

JusticeFC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fade away Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And what happened to the officers involved in
> the
> > shooting?
> > -Officer Bullock (later promoted to Sergeant)
> > -SWAT Leader Lt. Kellam (transferred to cushy
> IA
> > Investigator job with better hours)
> > -then Chief of Police Rohrer (promoted to
> Deputy
> > County Executive).
> >
> > Nothing will change. People need to file FOIA
> > requests and question them all the time. The
> > internal politics of the Department are just as
> > bad.
>
>
> This last one may have turned the tide! They are
> delaying for a reason and as someone mentioned
> this CP does not want to be the first one who
> charges a FCPD officer with an illegal shooting.
> They can only delay so long before the public will
> turn to something else besides the FCPD policing
> themselves.


Still no word on this case! Do they think we will forget about it. The cop who killed Mr Geer has still not been named and is either on duty or being paid. We have reached the absurd!

So much selective outrage...

WTFAYTA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Still no word on this case! Do they think we will
> forget about it. The cop who killed Mr Geer has
> still not been named and is either on duty or
> being paid. We have reached the absurd!


So call the Justice Department and tell them to hurry the hell up. The ball is in their court and nothing well happen until the Justice Department decides what they are going to do.

So there is the phone...pick it call them.

Until then ....STFU

There's the phone... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WTFAYTA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Still no word on this case! Do they think we
> will
> > forget about it. The cop who killed Mr Geer has
> > still not been named and is either on duty or
> > being paid. We have reached the absurd!
>
>
> So call the Justice Department and tell them to
> hurry the hell up. The ball is in their court and
> nothing well happen until the Justice Department
> decides what they are going to do.
>
> So there is the phone...pick it call them.
>
> Until then ....STFU


What's the matter? You enjoying your paid administrative leave for killing an unarmed man. Well it won't last, sooner or later justice will catch up to you and you are going to cost us all millions due to your reckless illegal behavior. I just hope they throw your ass in jail for killing the guy.