Any other schools experience serious testing problems for the Phase II TJ Essay Test today? It went two hours longer than expected because the computers wouldn't save the students' work. FCPS reports students will be notified January 31st of their options for retakes. What a headache. Hope we find out what happened. Hacking or tech staff screw-up?

Yeah I had to go pick up my son 3 times at 11; then they said come back at 11:30; then 12:30 which turned into 1pm. All I can say is that Debbie the TJ Liaison at Longfellow was far from helpful or understanding of the Parents concerns. From what I heard the issues were system wide across all the testing locations. Basically the "Save" function wasn't working and kids were losing work and having to redo it.

oops

Obamacare Part Deux.

All this for a portion of the application process that is crap.

I heard children have to return to their testing site after 10 pm tomorrow,when the stars are in alignment.

Mr. Clean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this for a portion of the application process
> that is crap.

+1

Kids were done and outside at Rocky Run at 11 with no problems during or any need to return.

I don't see what the essay questions have to do with science or technology. One Q was focused on ethics so that made sense. The others, to me, sounded like they came out of an Interview 101 course. 1-What is your worst characteristic and what would you do to change it? 2-Can leadership be taught? 3-What goal do you no longer pursue that was a focus for you in the past? What a I missing here? It is not what I expected for a TJ admissions Part II test.

Make it Right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't see what the essay questions have to do
> with science or technology....

Wah, wah, wah, well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.
Attachments:

Regarding the importance of the essay part of the admissions process, you may want to consider a few things --

1. The word "math" does not appear in the name of the school.
2. Under the mission statement on TJ's website is a list of beliefs, number 7 states: "Effective communication is often the only difference between a good idea and a successful initiative."
3. It is possible that since the school's education is "...focused on math, science and technology..." (from mission statement) that maybe they need the students to have some level of writing skills BEFORE they enter the school.
4. Regarding the topic of the questions asked yesterday, they appear consistent with the regulations governing admissions, to me. Specifically, regulation 3355.10 (3) (d) states "Background, skills, or experience that promote the School Board's goal of providing diversity in the student body to enhance a unique learning experience and to develop future LEADERS will be determined by:" the essays and the SIS. These questions could be consistent with the goal of leadership. (emphasis added)
5. Lastly, I agree with the idea that the SIS and essay are more like interview questions. I think they are meant to be. Interviews are conducted with individuals who apply in their Junior year, but there are just too many people in the freshman application pool for that to be feasible. Thus, the SIS and essay could be designed to address that issue, so the fact that the questions seem like Interview 101 questions -- could, just possibly -- be on purpose.

In short, there may be method to their maddness, if you think about it.

Dear All,

I suggest that in the future, the parents take the TJ admissions test instead of the student, since TJ is a family affair.

I was admitted to TJ, I mean my son son was, but we found the course work too difficult for me. Fortunately as it turned out, my son Was actually able to complete the course work on his own. What a lucky break.

Janet

My son did very well at TJ thanks to my constant vigilance. the problem is I have been banned from Harvard due to my stalking. Now he is on academic probaton
WTF

Maybe there is a method to their madness Nina B. Thanks for your perspectives. HI IQ and Banned4 - not sure of the point or added value of your comments. This wasn't about parents taking the test or assisting their children. This thread was about the problems students faced in taking the test due to technical failures on FCPS' part.

Curious about people's ideas for a fair solution. Maybe everyone option to redo with new questions. And they take the student's best score. What do you think?

Not sure yet what would be a "Fair Solution". Sounding like the debacle didn't happen at every testing location so it was really unfair to the locations that took 5+ hours to do the SIS & Essays. A lot of kids lost their work and had to do it again, that might have been detrimental.

I will be interested to hear what the TJ Admissions office communicates on Friday 1/31 as they have promised to address this issue by that date.

I agree. I'm so shocked this happened. They had the week off prior to the test to run the system for bugs. Their website is very impressive and works fine - maybe it was just on overload Saturday? I hope they can provide satisfactory answers as to what occurred and can offer some viable solutions that appease all the student test takers.

Nina B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regarding the importance of the essay part of the
> admissions process, you may want to consider a few
> things --
>
> 1. The word "math" does not appear in the name of
> the school.
> 2. Under the mission statement on TJ's website is
> a list of beliefs, number 7 states: "Effective
> communication is often the only difference between
> a good idea and a successful initiative."
> 3. It is possible that since the school's
> education is "...focused on math, science and
> technology..." (from mission statement) that maybe
> they need the students to have some level of
> writing skills BEFORE they enter the school.
> 4. Regarding the topic of the questions asked
> yesterday, they appear consistent with the
> regulations governing admissions, to me.
> Specifically, regulation 3355.10 (3) (d) states
> "Background, skills, or experience that promote
> the School Board's goal of providing diversity in
> the student body to enhance a unique learning
> experience and to develop future LEADERS will be
> determined by:" the essays and the SIS. These
> questions could be consistent with the goal of
> leadership. (emphasis added)
> 5. Lastly, I agree with the idea that the SIS and
> essay are more like interview questions. I think
> they are meant to be. Interviews are conducted
> with individuals who apply in their Junior year,
> but there are just too many people in the freshman
> application pool for that to be feasible. Thus,
> the SIS and essay could be designed to address
> that issue, so the fact that the questions seem
> like Interview 101 questions -- could, just
> possibly -- be on purpose.
>
> In short, there may be method to their maddness,
> if you think about it.

The essay section is the most worthless part of the admission process in schools in college, post graduate or law school as well. TJ isnt better than any of those. I have a bridge to sell you if you think theyre honestly reading every essay that every kid wrote.

Why all the charades? Here's how you get admitted to TJ;

1. Asian and IQ>140
2. White and IQ>120
3. Hispanic and IQ>100
4. Black and IQ>80

Irving had the problems too. The Admissions Office must have an incredible collective headache.

I'm not sure how much weight the essays are or should be given, but communication skill are critical in all fields, not just law and arts and sciences. Try becoming a sucessful research scientist without the ability to write a persuasive grant application. So, stop giving Nina grief over her well written post.

This from a Mom who doesn't do her kids' homework.

DEFUND TJHS!!!!!!!

Simpler Process Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why all the charades? Here's how you get admitted
> to TJ;
>
> 1. Asian and IQ>140
> 2. White and IQ>120
> 3. Hispanic and IQ>100
> 4. Black and IQ>80

Yet ironically there are a number of students from groups one and two that are in need of remediation.

You fools. It was a test!

If you couldn't figure out the way around the problems, then you fail!

Losers.

I heard FCPS hired contractors to administer the essay portion of the test.

OTOH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Simpler Process Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why all the charades? Here's how you get
> admitted
> > to TJ;
> >
> > 1. Asian and IQ>140
> > 2. White and IQ>120
> > 3. Hispanic and IQ>100
> > 4. Black and IQ>80
>
> Yet ironically there are a number of students from
> groups one and two that are in need of
> remediation.

Yet, not ironically, all the students in groups three and four are in need of remediation.

The issue made the Washington Post today. www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/computer-glitches-plague-Jefferson-highs-entrance-exam

My son was effected, He was told to save his work and then when he did, he got logged off, and lost all that he had typed in. He said kids were crying.
In my opinion the only fair thing to do is have everybody take the test again with differant questions.
On the plus side. He knows what to excpect on the next one.

and restonnow


http://www.restonnow.com/2014/01/27/prospective-tj-students-may-get-do-over-after-testing-issues/

The Washington Post is saying that Garza will let parents look at their kids essay online with their child. Then they can determine if they want to retake it. What about the kids that didn't get to take it in the first place because their was session cancelled due to the apparent computer glitches? Are they going to be the given the same questions - that, by now, are public? wow - this process is really SCREWED up and soooo subjective. Do other magnet schools in the US do an essay portion too?

Laura Q Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My son was effected, He was told to save his work
> and then when he did, he got logged off, and lost
> all that he had typed in. He said kids were
> crying.
> In my opinion the only fair thing to do is have
> everybody take the test again with differant
> questions.
> On the plus side. He knows what to excpect on
> the next one.


Hopefully your son knows the difference between 'effected' and 'affected' and how to spell different.

Re: TJ Phase II Testing Debacle
Posted by: Laura Q ()
Date: January 28, 2014 12:38PM

My son was effected, He was told to save his work and then when he did, he got logged off, and lost all that he had typed in. He said kids were crying.

-----------------------------------------

when i was in school i had a feminist who was giving all the boys bad grades and all the girls good grades

we challenged her on that fact. she told us shut up.

i also had teachers who said "buy a damn hearing aid" and downgrade me for hearing problems. parents would not buy one.

on and on with them.

--------------------------------------
i don't give any creedence to democrat testing

a standards VA test no one can cheat on i'd like to see. internet bullshit the democrats f'ing cheated. at that and at voting.

and they are going to design computers to fail as long as you pay them to do it. dock their pay and buy a pencil.

-----------------------------------
whatever the democrats say the grade is they are racists, 3x spending, assholes and nepatistic. 3x worse than the people they were complaining of.

FYI --

Dear Semi-finalists and Parents/Guardians,

Thank you for your patience as FCPS has evaluated the technical issues and the implications from the administration of the Student Information Sheet (SIS) and the essay. Once again, we apologize for the technical difficulties that were experienced from Saturday's administration (January 25, 2014).

We had hoped that semi-finalists could have reviewed their work, but it was determined the only way to ensure fairness to all students is to re-administer the SIS and essay. Knowing this is a burden on semi-finalists and their parents/guardians, the SIS and essay can be completed at home between February 6 and February 11, 2014. The SIS/essay will be available via a fillable PDF form on February 6, 2014 at 4:00PM. This format should reduce the chances of technical issues.

To ensure fairness and reduce stress, TJ admissions office will be providing the practice prompts from Saturday's administration in a fillable PDF form. This will allow all students to prepare for the re-administration and become familiar with the PDF format. Additional details and the link to the practice prompts will be sent to semi-finalists and parents/guardians no later than Monday, February 3, 2014. Students who have been approved for accommodations will be contacted. If you need help in finding a computer to complete the SIS/essay, please contact the admissions office.

We have appreciated the feedback we have received from your calls and emails. It provided valuable information as we moved forward with the admissions process. We will continue to work with the vendor to correct the technical issues so that these difficulties do not happen again. If you have any questions, please contact the TJ Admissions Office at tjadmissions@fcps.edu or 571-423-3770.

Jeremy Shughart, ED.S.
Director of Admissions
Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology
Department of Professional Learning and Accountability
Fairfax County Public Schools
571-423-3770

We are not interested in having our daughter's essay compared to something an adult has written. This solution may be the best answer fir the kids who are unhappy with what they did last weekend and for the admission's office. However for the student who is happy with what she submitted this stinks. I think we are going to continue to pursue admission to this school. It may have been great at one point, but I am no longer impressed. I spent today looking at the classes the students take and it wasn't all that different than our base school, and had fewer options. In addition I couldn't figure out how to get all the classes in without taking summer school. Seems silly to me there teenagers.

Sorry for typos, hit wrong button...

I meant to say -- we are not going to continue to pursue admissions.

How will this fairly evaluate the kids when parents could offer to help write? This is REALLY a strange decision.

Go back to Texas, no one cares about testing there, and your love of turf will make you a wild success. We're not a bunch of assholes like they are in Texas.

Are we evaluating students or parents here with this take-home SIS/essay test? What are the school officials thinking? It is a no-brainer.....

I guess they could not coordinate computers and space to do the whole thing again. They have a time crunch so they can read the applications and make decisions by the March 28th deadline. Also according to the wash post article thus is the first year the students were asked NOT to do them at home.

I took an online grad school class and our exams were timed. Once you opened the test the clock started running and it locked you out. You had to submit before time ran out. If they do something like this, parents could do them for the kids but having too many people involved will delay things and not help.

I don't know the details I just speculating.

I was looking forward for my Daughter to having the Essays completed in a proctored environment. I know this is the first year they were doing it that way but I feel it would have really benefited her since she can actually write. From what she told me I thought her approaches to the questions last Saturday were all great. I really wish those results could have stood for her.

Now we are going to have Parents and even worse; teachers from the TJ Prep Classes writing the answers for the kids that can't come up with suitable content on their own. If my daughter ends up not getting in I will be left to wonder if this debacle is what did her in.

so what another thing they broke so they can damage usa

so what they do it all the damn time

As a parent, if you are disturbed by the decision to re-administer the test at home, rather than in a proctored setting, please voice your concern and send a message to tjadmissions@fcps.edu, which was listed in the email sent to the parents today. I just did.

This testing at home has no meaning- how will the kids aptitude be tested at home when they will be helped by their parents/teachers- how is this a fair judgement for the deserving kids?

Either it's important to have the tests proctored or not. This is another example of FCPS saying one thing, doing another.

- Instruction time is precious - but let's keep the scheduled days off for teacher 'work' days despite multiple snow days
- Admissions tests must be proctored - unless we screw it up and decide to punt
- We won't hire felons - unless of course we do

Tiger mom's gonna to be cheating like a mofo. lol

I wrote to tjadmissions@fcps.edu to express my concern on the fairness, and got a response. Please write your opinions to tjadmissions@fcps.edu NOW...



Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:43:44 -0500
From: no-reply@fcps.edu
Subject: TJ Admissions SIS/Essay Next Steps

Dear Semi-finalists and Parents/Guardians,
Thank you for your patience as FCPS has evaluated the technical issues and the implications from the administration of the Student Information Sheet (SIS) and the essay. Once again, we apologize for the technical difficulties that were experienced from Saturday's administration (January 25, 2014).
We had hoped that semi-finalists could have reviewed their work, but it was determined the only way to ensure fairness to all students is to re-administer the SIS and essay. Knowing this is a burden on semi-finalists and their parents/guardians, the SIS and essay can be completed at home between February 6 and February 11, 2014. The SIS/essay will be available via a fillable PDF form on February 6, 2014 at 4:00PM. This format should reduce the chances of technical issues.
To ensure fairness and reduce stress, TJ admissions office will be providing the practice prompts from Saturday's administration in a fillable PDF form. This will allow all students to prepare for the re-administration and become familiar with the PDF format. Additional details and the link to the practice prompts will be sent to semi-finalists and parents/guardians no later than Monday, February 3, 2014. Students who have been approved for accommodations will be contacted. If you need help in finding a computer to complete the SIS/essay, please contact the admissions office.
We have appreciated the feedback we have received from your calls and emails. It provided valuable information as we moved forward with the admissions process. We will continue to work with the vendor to correct the technical issues so that these difficulties do not happen again. If you have any questions, please contact the TJ Admissions Office at tjadmissions@fcps.edu or 571-423-3770.
Jeremy Shughart, ED.S.
Director of Admissions
Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology
Department of Professional Learning and Accountability
Fairfax County Public Schools
571-423-3770

I really wish this to be timed and proctored test.

Johndoe2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wrote to tjadmissions@fcps.edu to express my
> concern on the fairness, and got a response.
> Please write your opinions to
> tjadmissions@fcps.edu NOW...
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:43:44 -0500
> From: no-reply@fcps.edu
> Subject: TJ Admissions SIS/Essay Next Steps
>
> Dear Semi-finalists and Parents/Guardians,
> Thank you for your patience as FCPS has evaluated
> the technical issues and the implications from the
> administration of the Student Information Sheet
> (SIS) and the essay. Once again, we apologize for
> the technical difficulties that were experienced
> from Saturday's administration (January 25,
> 2014).
> We had hoped that semi-finalists could have
> reviewed their work, but it was determined the
> only way to ensure fairness to all students is to
> re-administer the SIS and essay. Knowing this is a
> burden on semi-finalists and their
> parents/guardians, the SIS and essay can be
> completed at home between February 6 and February
> 11, 2014. The SIS/essay will be available via a
> fillable PDF form on February 6, 2014 at 4:00PM.
> This format should reduce the chances of technical
> issues.
> To ensure fairness and reduce stress, TJ
> admissions office will be providing the practice
> prompts from Saturday's administration in a
> fillable PDF form. This will allow all students
> to prepare for the re-administration and become
> familiar with the PDF format. Additional details
> and the link to the practice prompts will be sent
> to semi-finalists and parents/guardians no later
> than Monday, February 3, 2014. Students who have
> been approved for accommodations will be
> contacted. If you need help in finding a computer
> to complete the SIS/essay, please contact the
> admissions office.
> We have appreciated the feedback we have received
> from your calls and emails. It provided valuable
> information as we moved forward with the
> admissions process. We will continue to work with
> the vendor to correct the technical issues so that
> these difficulties do not happen again. If you
> have any questions, please contact the TJ
> Admissions Office at tjadmissions@fcps.edu or
> 571-423-3770.
> Jeremy Shughart, ED.S.
> Director of Admissions
> Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and
> Technology
> Department of Professional Learning and
> Accountability
> Fairfax County Public Schools
> 571-423-3770


Not sure that a canned, non-responsive reply really counts as a 'response.'

According to the Washington Post article on this topic sited above, this was the first year of the proctored format. In addition, the article indicated that one Fairfax school dismissed all the student due to the problems without giving the students a chance to do the essay.

I would have liked to have had the option to go with what my daugher had already submitted but I can see why that is problematic. It is hard to compare an essay of two students when one did it under last Saturday's conditions and the other did it at home.

I think we have decided to complete the process, since we have already asked the teachers for recommendations.

The ones who took and completed the SIS/essay at Rocky Run Middle School apparently experienced no problems. The kids there were out at 11:00 and no one was complaining. Regardless of the fact that anyone may have completed the SIS/essay, is it fair that this even be a take-home "test" which will most likely be done by parents or even professionals that those parents hire? FCPS has provided plenty of notice now to allow this to happen. I don't understand how those admissions people can consider this solution to be any sort of an example of fairness. For the kids who were able to complete the SIS/essay in a supervised environment, does Shughart expect them to re-do it by themselves and possibly compete against adults? Hopefully, someone is looking into a class action suit.

Nina B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the Washington Post article on this
> topic sited above, this was the first year of the
> proctored format. In addition, the article
> indicated that one Fairfax school dismissed all
> the student due to the problems without giving the
> students a chance to do the essay.
>
> I would have liked to have had the option to go
> with what my daugher had already submitted but I
> can see why that is problematic. It is hard to
> compare an essay of two students when one did it
> under last Saturday's conditions and the other did
> it at home.
>
> I think we have decided to complete the process,
> since we have already asked the teachers for
> recommendations.

So if they completed the SIS/essay under supervision on Saturday, can/should they do and submit the other PDF version? And if they do, how do they know for sure which version will be evaluated for admission? This is such bullshit!

I emailed the admissions office and asked. Here is the conversation --

From me --

I just want to be clear. My daughter's results from last weekend don't count, right?

If she doesn't do this new PDF version she won't be considered for admissions, correct?

They responded --

Good Afternoon,

Due to the extent of the technical problems from January 25, all semifinalists will need to complete the SIS and Essay at home. We cannot use any of the submissions from the original testing on Saturday. Even though some students were able to submit, the technical problems that occurred make it so we cannot guarantee that the work they submitted was turned in correctly.

We sincerely apologize for this situation and any inconvenience this may have caused your child. At the same time, the decision to move to providing the SIS and Essay at home was deemed the best solution given the conditions resulting from the January 25 administration.
______________________________________________________________________________

This made me think that some submitted materials didn't get attached to the correct child's application. In essence they have written responses with no names on them. This makes some sense to me, since my daughter said there were a number of students who needed temporary passwords.

I wonder how many submissions will be copied from other Googled essays. Some competition.

Fillable PDF? That's the best FCPS can do - fillable PDF? What the hell kind of testing system uses fillable PDF?

I'm guessing this means more weight will be placed on grades, teacher rec's and the Phase I math test. They have too because their is no guarantee these essays will actually be done by the students themselves. I bet most kids will be honest but surely not all will. Parental pressure may be too great and they will influence the essays too much - or write them for the kid - especially if their English skills are subpar. FCPS can only use these essays in a minimal sense - to see if a kid can write and put together their thoughts in a decent fashion, and to gauge their interest or passion for a TJ education. The weight on these should be minimal, however, and FCPS should be honest with students and parents about how much they intend to weight them in the final admissions process.

Should have spell checked:

I'm guessing this means more weight will be placed on grades, teacher rec's and the Phase I math test. They have to because there is no guarantee these essays will actually be done by the students themselves. I bet most kids will be honest but surely not all will. Parental pressure may be too great and they will influence the essays too much - or write them for the kid - especially if their English skills are subpar. FCPS can only use these essays in a minimal sense - to see if a kid can write and put together their thoughts in a decent fashion, and to gauge their interest or passion for a TJ education. The weight on these should be minimal, however, and FCPS should be honest with students and parents about how much they intend to weight them in the final admissions process.

To the snow plow parents of Fairfax County, any take home assignment is just another opportunity to be 'engaged' in their kids education - that is, do it for them. Throw in the high stakes of TJ - the kids will be lucky if one sentence remains from the first draft - if they are allowed to do any of the work at all.

Have some experience with IT development and testing. I'd be interested in knowing what kind of testing was done with this sytem.

There's all kinds of stuff they could have done to ensure it worked. Wonder if it was doen in-house or contracted. If contracted someone had to sign off on acceptance. If done in-house someone had to give it the go-ahead.

This is just basic stuff. I suspect some TJ grads could have done a better job.

The parts at our testing site all said they should let the TJ students run it and according my daughter the kids in the test also said it.

The essay is 25% according to web site. I have heard nothing indicating this will change.

If the students don't have some verbal skills I don't know how they made it to the semis. You have to get some points on the verbal section of the test.

1,500 Kids wasted 5 hours = 7,500 hours wasted
1,500 Parents wasted an avg of 3 hours on drop off and pickup = 4,500
12,000 Total wasted hours on the TJ test this last Saturday. Next thing you know your talkin about a real Debacle!

At least we got a bunch of "very sorries" out of it by Mr. Shughart the Director of Admissions..

Well my daughter had orientation at her base high school this week. If she goes there she can take More AP history. TJ requires that the 4 mandatory history not be AP.

She can also get two AP science classes instead of One at TJ because Geosystem isn't required at her base school. She can also get AP calculus and a second AP math course without taking any summer classes!

Oh and she can do band all four years!

Not a bad alternative. TJ has some cool things but I do not see how anyone gets all the required classes and prerequisite classes done without summer school.

IT Dev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have some experience with IT development and
> testing. I'd be interested in knowing what kind
> of testing was done with this sytem.
>
> There's all kinds of stuff they could have done to
> ensure it worked. Wonder if it was doen in-house
> or contracted. If contracted someone had to sign
> off on acceptance. If done in-house someone had
> to give it the go-ahead.
>
> This is just basic stuff. I suspect some TJ grads
> could have done a better job.

It was contracted. They are not saying the vendor.

Remember however, that for the SOL's, which are required to be adminisitered online, the vendor is Pearson. The problems Pearson has with large numbers of simultaneous test takers are well documented.

Well, at first you just search for information from different sources. The essay needs to be useful and informative. More than that, you need to waste A LOT of time in order to write a great essay. If you don't have enough time for this, you can just... buy it, you know. Some guys and organisations similar to write my research paper on https://essaystudio.org/write-my-research-paper-for-me can do it for you. It will cost you something, of course, but you can save a lot of time instead. It works if you don't have enough talent to write essay on your own too. But I think, you have. Anyone have. That's not a rocket science.