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Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Hmmmmm
()
Date: January 15, 2014 07:34AM
Was watching TV this morning and there was a comment that French and Belgian workers are more productive per hour than Americans. Now, it was pointed out that American workers are more productive overall because they work more hours, but the per hour producting data showed that French and Belgians accomplished more than Americans.
Now how can that be? American work force has been touted as the most productive in the world for as long as I can remember (and that's a long time).
And consider this, we have all these undocumented workers here so wonder if their efforts are included in the data.
Think about it, if we reduced the work week to say 32 hours instead of 40 we could potentially emply 20% more workers and more prodcution. Win - Win! Fewer people on unemployment and ultimately more productive!
Now how can that be? American work force has been touted as the most productive in the world for as long as I can remember (and that's a long time).
And consider this, we have all these undocumented workers here so wonder if their efforts are included in the data.
Think about it, if we reduced the work week to say 32 hours instead of 40 we could potentially emply 20% more workers and more prodcution. Win - Win! Fewer people on unemployment and ultimately more productive!
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Uwdu3
()
Date: January 15, 2014 07:47AM
Hmmmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was watching TV this morning and there was a
> comment that French and Belgian workers are more
> productive per hour than Americans. Now, it was
> pointed out that American workers are more
> productive overall because they work more hours,
> but the per hour producting data showed that
> French and Belgians accomplished more than
> Americans.
>
> Now how can that be? American work force has been
> touted as the most productive in the world for as
> long as I can remember (and that's a long time).
>
> And consider this, we have all these undocumented
> workers here so wonder if their efforts are
> included in the data.
>
> Think about it, if we reduced the work week to say
> 32 hours instead of 40 we could potentially emply
> 20% more workers and more prodcution. Win - Win!
> Fewer people on unemployment and ultimately more
> productive!
Of course, you'd take a 20% pay cut as business would need that money to employ the new workers. Not many folks can afford a 20% pay cut. If I can decrease my hours by 20% and still keep my same annual salary, I'm all in.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was watching TV this morning and there was a
> comment that French and Belgian workers are more
> productive per hour than Americans. Now, it was
> pointed out that American workers are more
> productive overall because they work more hours,
> but the per hour producting data showed that
> French and Belgians accomplished more than
> Americans.
>
> Now how can that be? American work force has been
> touted as the most productive in the world for as
> long as I can remember (and that's a long time).
>
> And consider this, we have all these undocumented
> workers here so wonder if their efforts are
> included in the data.
>
> Think about it, if we reduced the work week to say
> 32 hours instead of 40 we could potentially emply
> 20% more workers and more prodcution. Win - Win!
> Fewer people on unemployment and ultimately more
> productive!
Of course, you'd take a 20% pay cut as business would need that money to employ the new workers. Not many folks can afford a 20% pay cut. If I can decrease my hours by 20% and still keep my same annual salary, I'm all in.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Hmmmmmm
()
Date: January 15, 2014 08:21AM
Uwdu3, good point.
If workers were more productive then one would hope the company's revenue would increase as well, so if (and a big "if") company's were making more money they would be willing to pay the same. Probably not realistic because company's want to increase revenue and reduce costs.
If workers were more productive then one would hope the company's revenue would increase as well, so if (and a big "if") company's were making more money they would be willing to pay the same. Probably not realistic because company's want to increase revenue and reduce costs.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Statistics
()
Date: January 15, 2014 08:37AM
In the past 20 years, the US economy has grown nearly 60 percent. This huge increase in productivity is partly due to automation, the internet, and other improvements in efficiency. But it's also the result of Americans working harder—often without a big boost to their bottom lines. Oh, and meanwhile, corporate profits are up 20 percent. (Also read our essay on the great speedup and harrowing first-person tales of overwork.)
You have nothing to lose but your gains
Productivity has surged, but income and wages have stagnated for most Americans. If the median household income had kept pace with the economy since 1970, it would now be nearly $92,000, not $50,000.
The wage freeze
Increase in real value of the minimum wage since 1990: 21%
Increase in cost of living since 1990: 67%
One year's earnings at the minimum wage: $15,080
Income required for a single worker to have real economic security: $30,000
Working 9 to 7
For Americans as a whole, the length of a typical workweek hasn't changed much in years. But for many middle-class workers, job obligations are creeping into free time and family time. For low-income workers, hours have declined due to a shrinking job market, causing underemployment.
Dude, Where's My Job?
More and more, US multinationals are laying off workers at home and hiring overseas.
Attachments:
You have nothing to lose but your gains
Productivity has surged, but income and wages have stagnated for most Americans. If the median household income had kept pace with the economy since 1970, it would now be nearly $92,000, not $50,000.
The wage freeze
Increase in real value of the minimum wage since 1990: 21%
Increase in cost of living since 1990: 67%
One year's earnings at the minimum wage: $15,080
Income required for a single worker to have real economic security: $30,000
Working 9 to 7
For Americans as a whole, the length of a typical workweek hasn't changed much in years. But for many middle-class workers, job obligations are creeping into free time and family time. For low-income workers, hours have declined due to a shrinking job market, causing underemployment.
Dude, Where's My Job?
More and more, US multinationals are laying off workers at home and hiring overseas.
Attachments:
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Hmmmmmm
()
Date: January 15, 2014 08:55AM
Statistics, wow! Great info and pretty much supports what I thought.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Solo_poke
()
Date: January 16, 2014 07:27AM
The current energy system as a whole is based on profit for a few by the consumption of many. The transimision loses in central electric generation are not insignificant, neither is the amount of resources required to build and maintain the system. Add environmental concerns such as fraking, mountain top removal, nuclear waste and the actual cost of our energy is significant to the environment and subsequently human health.
I built my own windturbine from scavanged parts, then converted my Jeep to electric drive, it was quite simple and return on investment is less then 2 years. Microenergy production is the answer, since recycling the current grid based system would free up enough resources to power the world for the next generation. The impediment to this system is the greed of the elites.
My freedom from reliance on a failing grid system is priceless.
I built my own windturbine from scavanged parts, then converted my Jeep to electric drive, it was quite simple and return on investment is less then 2 years. Microenergy production is the answer, since recycling the current grid based system would free up enough resources to power the world for the next generation. The impediment to this system is the greed of the elites.
My freedom from reliance on a failing grid system is priceless.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Huffington
()
Date: January 16, 2014 07:00PM
I blame the poor. If we didn't have so many ungrateful poor refusing to join us blue bloods, we would have a more productive society.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Richie Rich
()
Date: January 16, 2014 07:24PM
Huffington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I blame the poor. If we didn't have so many
> ungrateful poor refusing to join us blue bloods,
> we would have a more productive society.
+1
-------------------------------------------------------
> I blame the poor. If we didn't have so many
> ungrateful poor refusing to join us blue bloods,
> we would have a more productive society.
+1
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Ludwig
()
Date: January 16, 2014 07:38PM
This argument has been going on since the 70s.
Stop wasting peoples time.
Stop wasting peoples time.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
JGbWF
()
Date: January 16, 2014 08:08PM
The rich need skilled workers and WANT to pay them more. But we just don't have these people.
We have a huge shortage in the STEM department. If people gained the skills needed, the disparity would reduce.
We have a huge shortage in the STEM department. If people gained the skills needed, the disparity would reduce.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Fox
()
Date: January 16, 2014 08:24PM
Americans twerk too much.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
absurd
()
Date: January 17, 2014 08:40AM
JGbWF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The rich need skilled workers and WANT to pay them
> more. But we just don't have these people.
>
> We have a huge shortage in the STEM department. If
> people gained the skills needed, the disparity
> would reduce.
That's baloney, they need the skilled workers and DON't WANT to pay them.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The rich need skilled workers and WANT to pay them
> more. But we just don't have these people.
>
> We have a huge shortage in the STEM department. If
> people gained the skills needed, the disparity
> would reduce.
That's baloney, they need the skilled workers and DON't WANT to pay them.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
real deal
()
Date: January 17, 2014 10:12AM
What most people don't realize is that STEM is not some holy grail its just another skill that can be easily gained and is ultimately a commodity. The only reason people like STEM so much is because its one of the few areas of the economy that is actually growing and the elite liberal arts people don't understand it.
On the larger point above technology creates very few jobs compared to other industries. That's the employment problem. You need less people to do more. Since more is being accomplished upper management is rightfully getting paid more money but there are less workers that are also getting paid.
More random points.
The middle class is disappearing. There are very few jobs that pay in the 40-70k range anymore.
There are plenty of jobs for people overall and in most areas you can live fine on 30k a year (yes even in Fairfax county there are 1 million people and a fair chunk of people make it work just think who works at all the service businesses around here stores, restaurants, etc Also Fairfax county one of the richest counties in the US average wages are still only around 62k)
On the larger point above technology creates very few jobs compared to other industries. That's the employment problem. You need less people to do more. Since more is being accomplished upper management is rightfully getting paid more money but there are less workers that are also getting paid.
More random points.
The middle class is disappearing. There are very few jobs that pay in the 40-70k range anymore.
There are plenty of jobs for people overall and in most areas you can live fine on 30k a year (yes even in Fairfax county there are 1 million people and a fair chunk of people make it work just think who works at all the service businesses around here stores, restaurants, etc Also Fairfax county one of the richest counties in the US average wages are still only around 62k)
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
eLester
()
Date: January 17, 2014 10:18AM
Hmmmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was watching TV this morning and there was a
> comment that French and Belgian workers are more
> productive per hour than Americans. Now, it was
> pointed out that American workers are more
> productive overall because they work more hours,
> but the per hour producting data showed that
> French and Belgians accomplished more than
> Americans.
>
> Now how can that be? American work force has been
> touted as the most productive in the world for as
> long as I can remember (and that's a long time).
>
> And consider this, we have all these undocumented
> workers here so wonder if their efforts are
> included in the data.
>
> Think about it, if we reduced the work week to say
> 32 hours instead of 40 we could potentially emply
> 20% more workers and more prodcution. Win - Win!
> Fewer people on unemployment and ultimately more
> productive!
Going to part-time workers would not affect it.
Labor productivity is measured per hour.
Since they're only talking about output per hour, the numbers can be easily manipulated by low-balling inflation or exaggerating output. Some goods, such as real estate, aren't adjusted for inflation in GDP. Services, such as medical care and education, are probably understating the impact of inflation. As much as 5% or more of GDP may be phantom because of the use of hedonic adjustments.
The biggest factor they leave out is the impact of leveraging on output. Obviously, you can sell more things at a higher price if you make it easier to finance. Labor productivity doesn't incorporate the level of credit creation. Multifactor productity is the real measure of productivity in the economy.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was watching TV this morning and there was a
> comment that French and Belgian workers are more
> productive per hour than Americans. Now, it was
> pointed out that American workers are more
> productive overall because they work more hours,
> but the per hour producting data showed that
> French and Belgians accomplished more than
> Americans.
>
> Now how can that be? American work force has been
> touted as the most productive in the world for as
> long as I can remember (and that's a long time).
>
> And consider this, we have all these undocumented
> workers here so wonder if their efforts are
> included in the data.
>
> Think about it, if we reduced the work week to say
> 32 hours instead of 40 we could potentially emply
> 20% more workers and more prodcution. Win - Win!
> Fewer people on unemployment and ultimately more
> productive!
Going to part-time workers would not affect it.
Labor productivity is measured per hour.
Since they're only talking about output per hour, the numbers can be easily manipulated by low-balling inflation or exaggerating output. Some goods, such as real estate, aren't adjusted for inflation in GDP. Services, such as medical care and education, are probably understating the impact of inflation. As much as 5% or more of GDP may be phantom because of the use of hedonic adjustments.
The biggest factor they leave out is the impact of leveraging on output. Obviously, you can sell more things at a higher price if you make it easier to finance. Labor productivity doesn't incorporate the level of credit creation. Multifactor productity is the real measure of productivity in the economy.
Re: American Work Too Much
Posted by:
Econ 201
()
Date: January 17, 2014 11:06AM
Hmmmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was watching TV this morning and there was a
> comment that French and Belgian workers are more
> productive per hour than Americans. Now, it was
> pointed out that American workers are more
> productive overall because they work more hours,
> but the per hour producting data showed that
> French and Belgians accomplished more than
> Americans.
>
> Now how can that be? American work force has been
> touted as the most productive in the world for as
> long as I can remember (and that's a long time).
>
> And consider this, we have all these undocumented
> workers here so wonder if their efforts are
> included in the data.
To a large degree it's a result of different measures used. And by many/most they aren't higher than the US. In fact, well behind by more meaningful measures. Also it reflects the nature of GDP which simply measures economic activity and not necessarily the real productive value of that activity. It's fine for its intended purpose as a top-line number assuming that you understand what's implied in GDP/GNI, but in order to get to 'productivity' in the way that you're and most think of it, you really need to look to more granular and specific measures.
A very large percentage of France's GDP is based on government spending/employment versus private sector industrial/technological output. So a person 'pushing paper' is counted in an equivalent way to a factory worker making a product for export, even if the economic activity generated is funded by taxes and/or debt.
>
> Think about it, if we reduced the work week to say
> 32 hours instead of 40 we could potentially emply
> 20% more workers and more prodcution. Win - Win!
> Fewer people on unemployment and ultimately more
> productive!
Nope. Your hypothesis is fundamentally flawed even by more gross economic measures. Apparently you're unaware that unemployment in France is much higher as an associated effect/reflection of their higher 'productivity' numbers. Even going by the more favorable measures, more productive workers mean less workers/unit of production needed = less workers and greater numbers of less-skilled/less-experienced/younger/older/etc. workers out of luck.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was watching TV this morning and there was a
> comment that French and Belgian workers are more
> productive per hour than Americans. Now, it was
> pointed out that American workers are more
> productive overall because they work more hours,
> but the per hour producting data showed that
> French and Belgians accomplished more than
> Americans.
>
> Now how can that be? American work force has been
> touted as the most productive in the world for as
> long as I can remember (and that's a long time).
>
> And consider this, we have all these undocumented
> workers here so wonder if their efforts are
> included in the data.
To a large degree it's a result of different measures used. And by many/most they aren't higher than the US. In fact, well behind by more meaningful measures. Also it reflects the nature of GDP which simply measures economic activity and not necessarily the real productive value of that activity. It's fine for its intended purpose as a top-line number assuming that you understand what's implied in GDP/GNI, but in order to get to 'productivity' in the way that you're and most think of it, you really need to look to more granular and specific measures.
A very large percentage of France's GDP is based on government spending/employment versus private sector industrial/technological output. So a person 'pushing paper' is counted in an equivalent way to a factory worker making a product for export, even if the economic activity generated is funded by taxes and/or debt.
>
> Think about it, if we reduced the work week to say
> 32 hours instead of 40 we could potentially emply
> 20% more workers and more prodcution. Win - Win!
> Fewer people on unemployment and ultimately more
> productive!
Nope. Your hypothesis is fundamentally flawed even by more gross economic measures. Apparently you're unaware that unemployment in France is much higher as an associated effect/reflection of their higher 'productivity' numbers. Even going by the more favorable measures, more productive workers mean less workers/unit of production needed = less workers and greater numbers of less-skilled/less-experienced/younger/older/etc. workers out of luck.