http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/10/AR2008111002066.html?hpid=topnews

Leaders of the region's two largest school systems outlined yesterday their grimmest scenarios to date for how looming budget shortfalls could play out in classrooms, with Fairfax County facing an average increase of 2 1/2 students per class and Montgomery County forced to renegotiate teacher pay increases or cut positions....."It will take decades to recover" from such cuts, Dale said in an interview. "We hope this is the worst-case scenario." .......

It begs the question of why we are cutting education to meet budget shortfalls.

Which, of course, begs the question of what we should cut instead. Roads are important, but I think education is more important.

Over the year the Fairfax County School System became a big fat slob lazy, it is about time to put it on a treadmill to get fit.

COPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Over the year the Fairfax County School System
> became a big fat slob lazy, it is about time to
> put it on a treadmill to get fit.


Really? Why do you think this?

NOVA_Resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2008/11/10/AR2008111002066.html?hpid=topnews
>
> Leaders of the region's two largest school systems
> outlined yesterday their grimmest scenarios to
> date for how looming budget shortfalls could play
> out in classrooms, with Fairfax County facing an
> average increase of 2 1/2 students per class and
> Montgomery County forced to renegotiate teacher
> pay increases or cut positions....."It will take
> decades to recover" from such cuts, Dale said in
> an interview. "We hope this is the worst-case
> scenario." .......

Dale and the SB what to spend $300 million on Gatehouse II with all of the above cuts that have to take place. CRAZY OFFICIALS. CUT THEIR PAY.

The school board has been the last one to cut their budget. Other county agencies have been making cuts for the last two years. Until two weeks ago the SB had their head in the clouds and weren't prepared to make cuts.

Have no fear, the Democrats are here!!!! They will solve all of our problems
within 24 hours after Inauguration Day! And....with Connolly in the Congress
we will all wake up in the morning to the sound of birds chirping and
there will be rainbows all along I-66 every morning during your commute!
Our children are going to be so happy they will rather skip to school instead
of riding a bus. Lets all sing along shall we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw6H3crLzpg&feature=related

Our kids are guaranteed a free public education. Does that mean they need AP or IB classes? Immersion programs?

Cut stuff like that--unnecessary items-- so we can keep our basic education (what students are entitled to) program going. I graduated from FCPS; though taking ceramics, guitar, auto mechanics, and Honors English classes were nice, they certainly weren't necessary to my education.

MBF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our kids are guaranteed a free public education.
> Does that mean they need AP or IB classes?
> Immersion programs?
>
> Cut stuff like that--unnecessary items-- so we can
> keep our basic education (what students are
> entitled to) program going. I graduated from FCPS;
> though taking ceramics, guitar, auto mechanics,
> and Honors English classes were nice, they
> certainly weren't necessary to my education.

So I gather from your post here that you feel spending on special needs students should be reduced, correct? In that case, I take it you are supportive of eliminating Teaching Aides for physically/mentally disabled students. Also, I guess you really don't think we should be spending money on students with learning/social disabilities or behavior problems?

You see, you can't support special education funding without supporting education for the gifted. Fact be known, my personal feelings are that spending of advanced students should exceed the spending on deficient students. It just seems that an advanced student has more potential of contributing to the public good than deficient students.

The reality however, is that we are nation based on standards based education that fully discredits the possibilities of any alternate methods of education, which has the ability to benefit both groups of special needs students.

I never said nor implied such a thing, though I do wonder how my reference to ap/ib/honors/ceramics/auto mech/guitar led you down that road.What part of "unnecessary" wasn't understood?

I didn't suggest getting rid of any special ed (or TAs), any GT programs or even the GT centers. Immersion programs and AP/IB courses are not necessary in any way shape or form, nor are they federally required (to my knowledge). Sure, they're nice to have, but in a budget situation like we are in now, these "gold plated' services (as Supervisor Bulova would call them) should be cut until we can afford them again. The priority should not be on things like this.

In a similar vein, I don't think that funding for the Enterprise School ( for at-risk students wtih substance, behavioral, or mental health problems) which is on the chopping block, should be cut either (though isn't school funding anyway--it's partially through the courts and partially user-paid, or so I read in the Board of Supervisors Line of Business review).

I framed my original post as a question because I was hoping you would explain your position further. As you have now elaborated on your position, I can see that - as I assumed - you are of the opinion that special education money is better spent on those with "disabilities" than it is being spent on gifted students, i.e. those who find little challenge in a traditional curriculum.

I guess the short answer, is the part of "unnecessary" that wasn't understood is how you feel AP/IB is "unnecessary." You say you don't suggest reduction in GT programs, yet according to:
http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/gt/levelsofservice.html

AP/IB is addressed in both Level 2 and Level 4 of the FCPS GT program. Additional AP/IB is a critical part in both the maintanance of a challenging curriculum and competitive FCPS students.

So though it was a bit of a tirade, which ventured of topic, I stand by my position that you, like most people, put an overemphasis on bringing deficient students to the standard, while belittling efforts to assist in the exceeding of standards.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2008 12:36AM by strates.

Go ahead keep painting me as a pro-special ed/anti-GT poster though it's not true. Keep in mind I took honors english and AP history in HS and was in the GT program in ES...not to mention both of my parents spent their entire careers (both are retired now) as ES teachers in FCPS. So as much as you'd like to pigeon hole me as being one-way and lacking in knowledge on the GT-side of the situation, it's completely not the case. As for your argument that I support the extra attention given to students that are "deficient" at the expense of those who are exceptional, I disagree...I got a lot of extra attention both in ES and HS being a "GT" student.

I think the child/student that loses the most in this situation is the average, keeps-to-himself kid, unfortunately.

How many of these "special needs" students are truly "special," or simply out-of-hand kids who are the result of irresponsible non-parenting parents without a spine. I'm talking about the Attention-Deficit kids, for crying out loud, now you can make a co-payment and any quack will come up with a special "disorder" to explain why Johnny or Jane is such a wise-crackin' snot...and need I go on about the meds? Parents are pathetic these days. I see more kids around our school and neighborhood who walk over their teachers, and their parents, and get away with it.

And even more pathetic is that everyone expects the schools to fix something that they should have set right in their own household. I feel sorry for the kids who are raised without any sense of self-respect, discipline and boundaries. The parents end up screwing them up before the kids even have a chance, and then when they get to school, they wonder why they can't sit in class and pay attention for more than 3 minutes. Then counselors, "special needs" classes are designed and take away from the funding that should go to basic education.

And yes, I'm an "old school" parent. Strangers and neighbors constantly comment on how pleasant, happy and polite our kids are. Why? Because we parent them!

People forget, it all starts at home.

Millions of dollars are spent for ESOL, meals and after school programs for children of illegal aliens, which costs Fairfx County tax payers an additional $3,500 per ESOL student.

The vast majority of legal immigrants already read, write and speak English. Because they are sponsored, they are not entitled to meals and after school care.

Some may argue that anchor babies are American citizens, but fail to acknowledge minor American citizens can not enter into any legal and binding agreement such as application for government programs or enrollment in the school system. Nor can an illegal alien parent legally apply for these services on behalf of their anchor babies. We have court-appointed child advocates for this purpose. But, in Fairfax County (and throughout Maryland), local politicians pick and choose which laws will be enforced and which are ignored.

The next time you hear an illegal alien say they are only here to work, ask how many are living on their earnings, or receiving tax funded benefits (to which they are not entitled) from local, state and federal coffers.

If illegal aliens are held to the same standard as legal immigrants, the Fairfax County budget deficit would be easily be cut in half.

strates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I framed my original post as a question because I
> was hoping you would explain your position
> further. As you have now elaborated on your
> position, I can see that - as I assumed - you are
> of the opinion that special education money is
> better spent on those with "disabilities" than it
> is being spent on gifted students, i.e. those who
> find little challenge in a traditional curriculum.
>
>
> I guess the short answer, is the part of
> "unnecessary" that wasn't understood is how you
> feel AP/IB is "unnecessary." You say you don't
> suggest reduction in GT programs, yet according
> to:
> http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/gt/levelsofservice.html
>
> AP/IB is addressed in both Level 2 and Level 4 of
> the FCPS GT program. Additional AP/IB is a
> critical part in both the maintanance of a
> challenging curriculum and competitive FCPS
> students.
>
> So though it was a bit of a tirade, which ventured
> of topic, I stand by my position that you, like
> most people, put an overemphasis on bringing
> deficient students to the standard, while
> belittling efforts to assist in the exceeding of
> standards.

hey strates. Spend some hours reading the program budget and detail sheets. Compute the per pupil cost for regular ed students who are not in schools with special programs. Why should any school have a class size increase when some schools get exhorbitant amounts of extra funds? Why pay for fles and immersion when your high school's alg 2 might have 34 kids? Or your second grader have 31-34 for reading? Would you rather some get japanese or have 25 in a class for core subjects? The hundreds of thousands spent on each magnet program eual about 10-12 teachers. Stick your kid in with 35 students while another gets an extra art teacher. Bull $hit.

Those deficient kids you speak of have disabilities or simply do poorly in school sometimes for NO reason parents or FCPS can help. If deficient is caused by a disability or a risk factor like poverty or ESL then there are mandated remedies. Do I care if the money to fullfill mandates coes out of my local, state, or federal taxes? NO.

Now explain why I should pay for IB out of my money if AP is cheaper. Also expalin why I should pay for AP tests at schools where parents live in mansions and the kid drives it's OWN car to school. The OP said keep GT and guess what? tecahers are something PTA or parenst CANNOT fund.

Usually most of the kids in IB or AP is from higher income bracket families.

My kids with my lower end salary couldn't get in because the school counselor always said the class is full ?????????????? but they can always get in auto mechanic or drafting or go to JROTC ..

MEANwhile FCPS spends money on Cameras in LUNCH LINES, and not only that, they use $300+ fancy 22" 1680x1050 TFT LCD Display panels as monitors for them. These cameras do not have even CLOSE to the quality that the LCD's are capable of displaying.. we have tons of little old TV's lying around the school that could do the job, but they decided they wanted freaking HDTVs (they are, practically HDTVs) instead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2008 05:56PM by Awakened.

how much money would we save be cutting funding for sports in half?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."