I was jogging today and when it came to cross Guinea Road I noticed no one stopped while I waited on the side of the road in the cross walk. Big lined cross walk with those bright yellow signs on either side of the road. Finally a police cruiser happened by and he did stop so I could cross. Generally speaking cars rarely stop for me when I stand at this or any major cross walk. What is the law on this? Do they have to stop or is it optional. If the law says they have to its a crock because no one ever does. In some cases it would be insane to stop (e.g. 6 lanes on Braddock have one of the cross walks near Inverchapel; I promise you you will never get 6 lanes on that race course to stop for humans).

I know in Europe they take these cross walks very seriously and most all the cars treat a pedestriane

*pedestrian

and here is FFX says:

"What are a pedestrian's legal rights when using crosswalks?

In Virginia, a pedestrian has the right of way if they are not crossing in disregard of oncoming traffic when they are in a crosswalk, or if they are crossing at an unmarked crosswalk on a road that is 35 miles per hour or less. At a traffic signal, a pedestrian must obey the traffic signal. If a pedestrian is crossing and did not disregard oncoming vehicles, a driver that approaches must yield and allow the pedestrian to safely cross the street. Multi-lane roads present a dangerous situation for pedestrians in the crosswalk. A vehicle in one lane may stop for the pedestrian in the crosswalk while another vehicle in the adjacent lane is blocked from seeing that there is a pedestrian in the crosswalk. "

They have to stop, but they are assholes in Fairfax so they don't. You should take down license plate numbers and complain to the police. Arlington has huge signs that say this and people in Arlington generally do stop unlike in Fairfax or in Alexandria. They also almost always stop in DC itself. It's too bad Fairfax is full of rednecks and selfish helicopter parents who only care about the lives of their own worthless brats.


pedexing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was jogging today and when it came to cross
> Guinea Road I noticed no one stopped while I
> waited on the side of the road in the cross walk.
> Big lined cross walk with those bright yellow
> signs on either side of the road. Finally a
> police cruiser happened by and he did stop so I
> could cross. Generally speaking cars rarely stop
> for me when I stand at this or any major cross
> walk. What is the law on this? Do they have to
> stop or is it optional. If the law says they have
> to its a crock because no one ever does. In some
> cases it would be insane to stop (e.g. 6 lanes on
> Braddock have one of the cross walks near
> Inverchapel; I promise you you will never get 6
> lanes on that race course to stop for humans).
>
> I know in Europe they take these cross walks very
> seriously and most all the cars treat a
> pedestriane

pedexing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was jogging today and when it came to cross
> Guinea Road I noticed no one stopped while I
> waited on the side of the road in the cross walk.
> Big lined cross walk with those bright yellow
> signs on either side of the road. Finally a
> police cruiser happened by and he did stop so I
> could cross. Generally speaking cars rarely stop
> for me when I stand at this or any major cross
> walk. What is the law on this? Do they have to
> stop or is it optional. If the law says they have
> to its a crock because no one ever does. In some
> cases it would be insane to stop (e.g. 6 lanes on
> Braddock have one of the cross walks near
> Inverchapel; I promise you you will never get 6
> lanes on that race course to stop for humans).
>
> I know in Europe they take these cross walks very
> seriously and most all the cars treat a
> pedestriane


You have to wait for the crosswalk signal for your turn to cross. You do not have any special rights unless you are already in the crosswalk when the light changes.

Please move to Europe where cars treat a pedestriane

LetsRock Wrote:
>
>
> You have to wait for the crosswalk signal for your
> turn to cross. You do not have any special rights
> unless you are already in the crosswalk when the
> light changes.

I was talking about cross walks NOT at a light (many are not even at an intersection). If you walked or ran or even rode a bicycle you would know about these.

actually the crosswalk at Braddock and Inverchapel is 7 lanes (turn lane included) if you think the jacked-up self-absorbed race car wannabes are going to even slow down for someone walking or waiting in the crosswalk you are high. Yes its the law, yes they should stop but you would be dead in under 4 crossings if you assumed approaching drivers would stop for you...

It's sad though Fairfax won't go after the drivers who don't obey the laws. There is even benefit in it to the selfish pricks because Arlington and DC which is more walkable have enjoyed a pretty stable housing markets, prices in Fairfax tend to be on the roller coaster ride and one that's never gone back up to the peak and one which will soon fall again with the trend to move into more walkable areas especially DC which has seen a huge population increase.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-924




§ 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty.

A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

B. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection A, at intersections or crosswalks where the movement of traffic is being regulated by law-enforcement officers or traffic control devices, the driver shall yield according to the direction of the law-enforcement officer or device.

No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic.

The drivers of vehicles entering, crossing, or turning at intersections shall change their course, slow down, or stop if necessary to permit pedestrians to cross such intersections safely and expeditiously.

Pedestrians crossing highways at intersections shall at all times have the right-of-way over vehicles making turns into the highways being crossed by the pedestrians.

C. The governing body of Arlington County, Fairfax County, Loudoun County and any town therein, the City of Alexandria, the City of Fairfax, and the City of Falls Church may by ordinance provide for the installation and maintenance of highway signs at marked crosswalks specifically requiring operators of motor vehicles, at the locations where such signs are installed, to yield the right-of-way to pedestrians crossing or attempting to cross the highway. Any operator of a motor vehicle who fails at such locations to yield the right-of-way to pedestrians as required by such signs shall be guilty of a traffic infraction punishable by a fine of no less than $100 or more than $500. The Commonwealth Transportation Board shall develop criteria for the design, location, and installation of such signs. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any limited access highway.

(Code 1950, §§ 46-243, 46-244; 1958, c. 541, § 46.1-231; 1962, c. 471; 1968, c. 165; 1972, c. 576; 1976, c. 322; 1989, c. 727; 2000, c. 323; 2002, c. 327; 2004, c. 658; 2007, c. 813; 2012, c. 339.)

In Virginia, a pedestrian has the right of way if they are not crossing in disregard of oncoming traffic when they are in a crosswalk


Key words...if they (the pedestrian) are not crossing in DISREGARD OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC.


Aggressive pedestrians don't seem to get that part...and they think they can defy the laws of physics when they arrogantly step right of the curb in the path of a car...

Bikey! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In Virginia, a pedestrian has the right of way if
> they are not crossing in disregard of oncoming
> traffic when they are in a crosswalk
>
>
> Key words...if they (the pedestrian) are not
> crossing in DISREGARD OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC.
>
>
> Aggressive pedestrians don't seem to get that
> part...and they think they can defy the laws of
> physics when they arrogantly step right of the
> curb in the path of a car...

Yes because pedestrians jumping in front of moving cars is such a problem here in NOVA, You are an asshole troll.

No one was saying walkers had the right to simply walk in front of traffic. asshole. The law says, as the OP stated, that if a pedestrian is standing duitifully at the side of the street waiting for auto traffic to yeild they cars should stop. They dont. The walker stands there for minutes while drivers like you Mr. Fuckface simply break the law. This post wasnt about pedstrians jumping out of traffic - that is a self-limitting practice.

trollfattydouchebagposterface

OP here - the drivers dont know the law. While I waited with the cop stopped on my side several cars rolled through the crosswalk slowly wondering 'gosh should I stop at this crosswalk with the big stripes, dayglo yellow signs and cop already stopped. That didnt happen till the cop came and stopped.

Next time Im going to stand by the sign point at it and chuck rocks at douchys that roll past. 'Huh, must have been a road rock that flipped up and dented your lexus...'

Whenever I'm at Fair City Mall there are signs at the crosswalk that says state law to stop for pedestrians but they hardly ever do. I have yelled at a few and pointed to the sign. They are too important and in too much of a hurry to care.

Yes because pedestrians jumping in front of moving cars is such a problem here in NOVA, You are an asshole troll.

No one was saying walkers had the right to simply walk in front of traffic. asshole. The law says, as the OP stated, that if a pedestrian is standing duitifully at the side of the street waiting for auto traffic to yeild they cars should stop. They dont. The walker stands there for minutes while drivers like you Mr. Fuckface simply break the law. This post wasnt about pedstrians jumping out of traffic - that is a self-limitting practice.

trollfattydouchebagposterface



Aw...did I touch a nerve? Let me file a butthurt report for you while you reread what I wrote, and I'll "walk" it to the courthouse...

I'll try not to run over your Birkenstock-clad foot as you vogue in front of my car.

LOL

"trollfattydouchebagposterface"



What?


You sound like a fudgepackassholegaystarfishpuncher.

It wastes a hell of lot more energy (bigger carbon footprint for you environmentals) to stop 2 tons from >25mph than it does to stop your ass from <3mph. Wait until the cars go by and don't make people waste energy and fossil fuels stopping for you, regardless of the law. The stop lights and excess idling due to the Walk/Don't Walk signs are bad enough at wasting energy. Having to stop at marked crosswalks mid-block for peds just makes the situation worse.

I stop for hot chicks and kids. Screw a dude walking across the street, get a fucking car.

Rules of the road Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I stop for hot chicks and kids. Screw a dude
> walking across the street, get a fucking car.


+1

Hot chicks and kids.

And call the cops all you want. Nothing they can do unless they see it in person. Well unless you want to spend your time to go swear out the charges before the magistrate and then spend at least 1 to 2 days of your own time sitting in court.

Good luck.

Yes because pedestrians jumping in front of moving cars is such a problem here in NOVA, You are an asshole troll.

No one was saying walkers had the right to simply walk in front of traffic. asshole. The law says, as the OP stated, that if a pedestrian is standing duitifully at the side of the street waiting for auto traffic to yeild they cars should stop. They dont. The walker stands there for minutes while drivers like you Mr. Fuckface simply break the law. This post wasnt about pedstrians jumping out of traffic - that is a self-limitting practice.

trollfattydouchebagposterface



This is the funniest (and saddest) post I've read today, in addition to all the mispellings. Angry pedestrian who doesn't know the law versus car...the car wins every time

This is clearly going to be too long, didn't read for most Fairfax Underground readers.

In a nutshell, though, drivers in the 1920's and 1930's were unhappy to have to move at the speed of the horse and buggy and the pedestrian and the laws were changed to the overall and lasting detriment of the pedestrian. The rise of the automobile resulted in legislation to regularize use of roadways and increase the speed of car travel. This legislation acted to the detriment of pedestrians in roadways, and to the benefit of pedestrians at intersections and crosswalks. Since Virginia is one of a few states which still operates under pure contributory negligence (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributory_negligence), it is in your absolute best interest to avoid any non-compliance with the law if you hope to recover damages from a traffic crash. Do not jump in front of traffic too close to stop, and do not get hit, because that would mean you jumped in front of traffic too close to stop.

Questions of who had right of way and right to use the streets and highways were easier when everything moved at a walking pace. Certainly roads were initially built with pedestrians and animal-drawn carts in mind. Rome, anyone? In the very early years of automobiles, everyone had reciprocal rights to use the road, and automobile drivers were highly frustrated because they could not go as fast as they wanted.

This is now only of historical interest, but a 1919 Virginia Supreme Court ruling held:
"The pedestrian and the automobile have equal rights upon the highway, but their capacity for inflicting injury is vastly disproportioned. It follows also from this that the driver of an automobile cannot be said to be using the highway within his rights, or to be in the exercise of due care, if he takes advantage of the force, weight, and power of his machine as a means of compelling pedestrians to yield to his machine superior rights upon the public highway designed for the use of all members of the public upon equal terms. . . . If there is anything in the argument of priority, man was created before the automobile, and, to paraphrase a quotation from Holy Writ, man was not created for the automobile, but the automobile was created for man."

http://archive.org/stream/jstor-1106472/1106472#page/n1/mode/2up

To allow drivers to go faster, legislation expected that drivers could go faster where pedestrians were pushed to the side, but that drivers would be expected to slow down and yield to pedestrians at regularized places where pedestrians would be expected to use the road, like a crosswalk:

"At intersecting streets where there are neither traffic lights nor traffic officers, the pedestrian has a superior right -- that is, the right to cross from one side of the street to the other in preference or priority over vehicles -- and drivers of vehicles must respect this right and yield the right of way to the pedestrian. The pedestrian's right of way extends from one side of the street to the other. It does not begin at any particular point in the intersection nor does it end at any particular point. It begins on one side of the street and extends until the pedestrian has negotiated the crossing." (Lucas v. Craft, Virginia Supreme Court, 1933)
http://va.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19330921_0040039.VA.htm/qx

As a pedestrian, yes, you have clear right of way at most crosswalks, although you must not hazard yourself by jumping in front of cars that are too close to stop.

Why are there minimal Virginia law enforcement effort to set up sting operations to catch motorists who do not yield to pedestrians at crosswalks?

No idea. Maybe it just isn't glamorous enough. Maybe most policemen are drivers first, and have forgotten that there was an exchange of rights-of-way in the 1920's. Maybe pedestrians are just not vocal enough to their politicians.

If you're not going to call someone a poopypantstrolldickbag, how can we take you seriously?

Who taught the locusts in Asiandale to push the button to cross? They are really fucking up traffic on 236 between Hummer and Backlick.

Few of us walk anywhere here in Fairfax and that is the fax. Its almost like a foreign concept. Id stay alert at crosswalks and no dont expect cars to stop and dont expect justice - just try to stay alive.

FineytEhCloWn says open your wallet drivers...

Yield to Pedestrians Program - Fairfax County is one of a few jurisdictions in Virginia allowed to place signs at designated intersections providing for an increased fine for failing to yield to pedestrians. The "Yield to Pedestrians in Crosswalks $100 - $500 Violation Fine" Signs Program is administered by FCDOT. Currently the signs are installed at over 400 intersections in the County. Citizens may request these signs at crosswalks by contacting FCDOT.

standing duitifully Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bikey! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In Virginia, a pedestrian has the right of way
> if
> > they are not crossing in disregard of oncoming
> > traffic when they are in a crosswalk
> >
> >
> > Key words...if they (the pedestrian) are not
> > crossing in DISREGARD OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC.
> >
> >
> > Aggressive pedestrians don't seem to get that
> > part...and they think they can defy the laws of
> > physics when they arrogantly step right of the
> > curb in the path of a car...
>
> Yes because pedestrians jumping in front of moving
> cars is such a problem here in NOVA, You are an
> asshole troll.
>
> No one was saying walkers had the right to simply
> walk in front of traffic. asshole. The law says,
> as the OP stated, that if a pedestrian is standing
> duitifully at the side of the street waiting for
> auto traffic to yeild they cars should stop. They
> dont. The walker stands there for minutes while
> drivers like you Mr. Fuckface simply break the
> law. This post wasnt about pedstrians jumping out
> of traffic - that is a self-limitting practice.
>
> trollfattydouchebagposterface


You are wrong. Cars should not have to slow or stop for people to cross the road. The streets are there for cars. You can play "Frogger" at your own peril.

LetsRock Wrote:

>
> You are wrong. Cars should not have to slow or
> stop for people to cross the road. The streets
> are there for cars. You can play "Frogger" at
> your own peril.


no you are wrong, ignorant and boring...

This is now only of historical interest, but a 1919 Virginia Supreme Court ruling held:
"The pedestrian and the automobile have equal rights upon the highway, but their capacity for inflicting injury is vastly disproportioned. It follows also from this that the driver of an automobile cannot be said to be using the highway within his rights, or to be in the exercise of due care, if he takes advantage of the force, weight, and power of his machine as a means of compelling pedestrians to yield to his machine superior rights upon the public highway designed for the use of all members of the public upon equal terms. . . . If there is anything in the argument of priority, man was created before the automobile, and, to paraphrase a quotation from Holy Writ, man was not created for the automobile, but the automobile was created for man."

http://archive.org/stream/jstor-1106472/1106472#page/n1/mode/2up

To allow drivers to go faster, legislation expected that drivers could go faster where pedestrians were pushed to the side, but that drivers would be expected to slow down and yield to pedestrians at regularized places where pedestrians would be expected to use the road, like a crosswalk:

"At intersecting streets where there are neither traffic lights nor traffic officers, the pedestrian has a superior right -- that is, the right to cross from one side of the street to the other in preference or priority over vehicles -- and drivers of vehicles must respect this right and yield the right of way to the pedestrian. The pedestrian's right of way extends from one side of the street to the other. It does not begin at any particular point in the intersection nor does it end at any particular point. It begins on one side of the street and extends until the pedestrian has negotiated the crossing." (Lucas v. Craft, Virginia Supreme Court, 1933)
http://va.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19330921_0040039.VA.htm/qx

Thank you for this discussion. I consider myself a conscientious driver, but I have always been confused about when a pedestrian's right of way begins. As I read these posts, a pedestrian has a right of way only after entering the crosswalk, so long as the pedestrian has not attempted to cross in disregard of approaching traffic.

I haven't read anywhere that approaching vehicles should stop to allow a pedestrian to enter the crosswalk, only that vehicles should yield to pedestrians already in the crosswalk.

Am I misinterpreting this?

Thank you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Am I misinterpreting this?

Yep, that's the way I see it.

At a crosswalk. . .
Virginia Code § 46.2-924 specifically uses the phrase “at a crosswalk,” in other words the area where the pedestrian is waiting to cross, and not just the striped portion in the roadway. Yes, some signs say yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk, but “at a crosswalk” is in Virginia Code.
. . .does Virginia law require a driver to STOP for a pedestrian at a crosswalk or YIELD to him?

Yes. Sort of. Our Virginia legislators seem to be confused. Both STOP and YIELD are mentioned in the Virginia Code. Personal opinion is not worth anything on this, by the way. A judge's opinion would be of value. That is why those cases are cited below.

One Virginia judge, specifically addressing this, said essentially a driver should stop if he needed to. "if necessary, bring his machine to a stop in time to avoid injury to pedestrians." Sawyer v. Blankenship, Supreme Court of Virginia, 1933

Why is the answer possibly STOP? The title of § 46.2-924 is “Drivers to stop for pedestrians.” Does STOP really mean STOP?
Why is the answer possibly YIELD? The very first line of the law says “The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway. . .”
By the way, Maryland’s unsignalized crosswalk law uses the word “STOP” and not the word yield. Maryland law reads: “The driver of a vehicle shall come to a stop when a pedestrian crossing the roadway in a crosswalk is:
(i) On the half of the roadway on which the vehicle is traveling; or
(ii) Approaching from an adjacent lane on the other half of the roadway.
(b) A pedestrian may not suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.
(c) If, at a marked crosswalk or at an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, a vehicle is stopped to let a pedestrian cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear may not overtake and pass the stopped vehicle.“ http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/maryland/md-laws/maryland_laws_transportation_21-502

So in Virginia, generally the pedestrian/bicycle rider has right-of-way at crosswalks, but the law also imposes a major responsibility on the crosswalk user not to hazard himself by entering in front of traffic too close to stop. Since Virginia is a contributory negligence state, if you were hit, you may have real problems collecting civil damages in proving that you followed that part of the law. Please read more on contributory negligence if that phrase does not alarm you in this context.
In one Fairfax County crash referred to the Virginia Supreme Court in 2004, the jury essentially decided in favor of a driver who did not see a bicyclist in a sidepath along Braddock Road and eased his car out into the crosswalk, hitting and injuring the bicyclist who was proceeding through the crosswalk without having fully ascertained the driver had actually yielded the right of way to him. The jury determined the bicyclist acted with some degree of negligence in his crossing at the unsignalized crosswalk. As the court described it, “The right to proceed is to be tested by whether a person of ordinary prudence would attempt it.” Your peers on the jury are car drivers.

After all that, below are the only comments worth any weight in this discussion.

At a crosswalk Virginia courts have held “the pedestrian has a superior right -- that is, the right to cross from one side of the street to the other in preference or priority over vehicles -- and drivers of vehicles must respect this right and yield the right of way to the pedestrian. The pedestrian's right of way extends from one side of the street to the other. It does not begin at any particular point in the intersection nor does it end at any particular point. It begins on one side of the street and extends until the pedestrian has negotiated the crossing.” (Marshall v. Shaw. Supreme Court of Virginia, 1955) (http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2476417758289562501&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr)

"The duty of a motor vehicle driver on approaching an intersection is to keep a vigilant lookout for pedestrians between curbs on the traveled portion of the highway, and when pedestrians are negotiating the crossing, or about to step from the side into traffic lanes, to operate his car at such speed and under such control that he can readily turn one way or the other, and, if necessary, bring his machine to a stop in time to avoid injury to pedestrians." (Sawyer v. Blankenship, Supreme Court of Virginia, 1933) (http://va.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19330615_0040113.VA.htm/qx)

And pedestrians "never" stop for cars either.

The bigger issue is that pedestrians will step off the curb into the path of a car irregardless of the circumstances and with no regard for their lives or, in many cases, the lives of their children because they have "priority over vehicles" in crosswalks. Many pedestrians feel this is the case no matter when and where they wish to cross the street.


If you are yapping on the phone or texting someone or flat out not paying attention, pedestrians are clearly at risk. When pedestrians just stroll into the street with the expectation drivers will stop, they are not using their brain no matter what the law says.

Thank you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for this discussion. I consider myself a
> conscientious driver, but I have always been
> confused about when a pedestrian's right of way
> begins. As I read these posts, a pedestrian has a
> right of way only after entering the crosswalk, so
> long as the pedestrian has not attempted to cross
> in disregard of approaching traffic.
>
> I haven't read anywhere that approaching vehicles
> should stop to allow a pedestrian to enter the
> crosswalk, only that vehicles should yield to
> pedestrians already in the crosswalk. >
> Am I misinterpreting this?

Yes you are misinterpreting it. There would be no point in a crosswalk if pedestrians had to be in the street for cars to stop - you are never allowed to hit people thus you always must stop for someone in the road to avoid hitting them without exception. While the pedestrian has to excersize ordinary care entering the crosswalk, drivers are required to be able to stop when approaching a crosswalk were pedestrains are present in or about to enter the crosswalk. If a pedestrian is standing on the edge of a crosswalk looking at oncoming traffice with the clear intent to cross the law says approaching drivers must stop.

Ironically if you do not stop and hit them you could argue they did not excercise ordinary caution thus I think the law is pretty flawed. In theory a cop could ticket every car not yeilding to a ped if he were in the intersection and the ticket would be valid yet if the ped gets creamed by the car there is room to argue it was the ped's fault.

I think putting these on 7 lane roads like Braddock and Inverchapel is a good example of the unenforcibility of this law. No way that road is stopping for a ped and no way a cop will ticked people for not stopping there...

These days I walk a lot, simply because of the fact that my house is within walking distance of a Metro station. I own a car but why pay $5 for parking when I can walk for free?

Anyhow the only times I've had problems was when I was crossing over a side street, not the main throughfare. Twice I've almost been hit by cars that were turning left onto the street I was crossing. They saw me crossing in the marked pedestrian crossing but went anyway because there was a gap in the traffic. One of them even charged her SUV straight at me and started yelling that I was in her way.

For anyone keeping statistics both times the drivers were women.

I have never had any issues crossing the main road because I'm pretty careful about that. Not much you can do when little miss pantybritches comes along and decides to left-hook you with her Jeep Cherokee, so she can save herself 5 seconds of time getting to work.

Here is the take away:
1. Drivers SHOULD yield to pedestrians at crosswalks.
2. Many drivers, if paying attention to anything at all, are more attentive to what cars are doing than to what pedestrians might be doing.
3. When a car and a pedestrian come into contact, the law might favor the pedestrian, but the physics will usually favor the car.
4. Some people are just assholes. That applies to drivers, pedestrians and even on occasion people posting on this forum.

I still haven't ready anything to convince me I have misinterpreted the pedestrian right-of-way.

Neville said that Virginia code uses the phrase "at a crosswalk." While that is true, the cited code first says,"The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway." The code then continues to describe the settings where a driver must yield right-of-way.

I don't read that code section the way Neville does.

Intersection wrote, "There would be no point in a crosswalk if pedestrians had to be in the street for cars to stop." I don't think that's true; a crosswalk is just a form of traffic control. It seems to me that it is safer to have pedestrians crossing roadways at a single point, rather than darting across the roadways wherever they want.

Further, I think a pedestrian can enter a crosswalk safely and legally without being "in disregard of approaching traffic" even when vehicle traffic is approaching, as long as the crossing pedestrian does not force the approaching vehicles to abruptly and dangerously change direction or stop.

So, why have situational right-of-way laws for pedestrians when, practically speaking, vehicles must always yield to pedestrians in the roadway? I doubt (or I hope) no one honestly believes it would be okay to run over a pedestrian just because the pedestrian had not yielded right-of-way. Besides establishing liability, right-of-way laws are a form of traffic control written not only for drivers, but for pedestrians.

I like Bill N.'s summary, but I still disagree with the use of "at crosswalks."

*haven't read

Thank you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still haven't ready anything to convince me I
> have misinterpreted the pedestrian right-of-way.
>
> Neville said that Virginia code uses the phrase
> "at a crosswalk." While that is true, the cited
> code first says,"The driver of any vehicle on a
> highway shall yield the right-of-way to any
> pedestrian crossing such highway." The code then
> continues to describe the settings where a driver
> must yield right-of-way.
>
> I don't read that code section the way Neville
> does.
>
> Intersection wrote, "There would be no point in a
> crosswalk if pedestrians had to be in the street
> for cars to stop." I don't think that's true; a
> crosswalk is just a form of traffic control. It
> seems to me that it is safer to have pedestrians
> crossing roadways at a single point, rather than
> darting across the roadways wherever they want.
>
> Further, I think a pedestrian can enter a
> crosswalk safely and legally without being "in
> disregard of approaching traffic" even when
> vehicle traffic is approaching, as long as the
> crossing pedestrian does not force the approaching
> vehicles to abruptly and dangerously change
> direction or stop.
>
> So, why have situational right-of-way laws for
> pedestrians when, practically speaking, vehicles
> must always yield to pedestrians in the roadway? I
> doubt (or I hope) no one honestly believes it
> would be okay to run over a pedestrian just
> because the pedestrian had not yielded
> right-of-way. Besides establishing liability,
> right-of-way laws are a form of traffic control
> written not only for drivers, but for
> pedestrians.
>
> I like Bill N.'s summary, but I still disagree
> with the use of "at crosswalks."


the code may not speak to it but Fairfax County does as cited by FinEyTheCloWn - they even use the phrase in the name of Violation "Yield to Pedestrians in Crosswalks $100 - $500 Violation Fine"

"Yield to Pedestrians Program - Fairfax County is one of a few jurisdictions in Virginia allowed to place signs at designated intersections providing for an increased fine for failing to yield to pedestrians. The "Yield to Pedestrians in Crosswalks $100 - $500 Violation Fine" Signs Program is administered by FCDOT. Currently the signs are installed at over 400 intersections in the County. Citizens may request these signs at crosswalks by contacting FCDOT."

Thanks for contributing, "Yield to Peds in Crosswalks Fine." I realize this may seem frivilous to some, but, to me, it seems the distinction between "at crosswalks" and "in crosswalks" is significant. Even in what you quoted, the phrase is "in crosswalks."

I saw a squirrel vs. bird fight in a crosswalk. A car won.

Thank you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for contributing, "Yield to Peds in
> Crosswalks Fine." I realize this may seem
> frivilous to some, but, to me, it seems the
> distinction between "at crosswalks" and "in
> crosswalks" is significant. Even in what you
> quoted, the phrase is "in crosswalks."

the crosswalk extends to the sidewalk. If you are standing on the curb at a crosswalk you are 'in the crosswalk'

If you dont like that try this:

The governing body of Arlington County, Fairfax County, Loudoun County and any town therein, the City of Alexandria, the City of Fairfax, and the City of Falls Church may by ordinance provide for the installation and maintenance of highway signs at marked crosswalks specifically requiring operators of motor vehicles, at the locations where such signs are installed, to yield the right-of-way to pedestrians crossing or attempting to cross the highway.

Standing on the curb, at a crosswalk, with giant yellow signs and broad white stripes looking forward and at oncoming traffic waiting for cars to stop so you can cross is 'attempting to cross.' You cannot say that a pedestrian both has to fully 'regard' oncoming traffic and yet never be in the act of crossing. Waiting, following the law 'regarding' the dangers of oncoming traffic requires that the first step in attempting to cross at a crosswalk is standing on the curb waiting for traffic to yield. Therefore motorists approaching must be in reasonable control of their MV and must stop if given sufficient time under the law when they see such activity. Do you have slam on the brakes if you and a pedestrian arrive at the crosswalk at the same time - no. Do you have to stop if you are going 25 mph and you are 100 feet away - yes.

The OP's point is that pedestrians stand and wait while processions of cars pass from a 1000 feet on and more. Like you drivers do not understand the laws.

chGHL and others

Say what you want.But here is the truth. It has been said several times over.

In ,,,,,I car is not required to stop for a pedestrian standing on the curb or sidewalk.

Once the pedestrian is in the crosswalk, the vehicle is required to stop. If a pedestrian steps off the curb in front of a car they should have obviously seen, they are at fault not the vehicle. In turn, if a vehicle hits a pedestrian in c crosswalk that the driver should have obviously seen and had enough time to stop, then the vehicle is at fault.

Some of these are judgement calls as to when the pedestrian was actually in the crosswalk, but no where in Virginia does a vehicle have to stop for a pedestrian waiting on the sidewalk to cross.

I am sure there will be many shade tree lawyers that will argue this and call me everything but a white man, but I was a traffic cop for 10 years and handles many of these situations which resulted in wrecks. Trust me.....

Some of these are judgement calls as to when the pedestrian was actually in the crosswalk, but no where in Virginia does a vehicle have to stop for a pedestrian waiting on the sidewalk to cross.


BINGO!


How about some of you zealot activist pedestrians trying to wrap your minds around what he said...

Thank you, None*. That was my understanding. So, my takeaway from this discussion is this: the public needs to be better educated about traffic laws.

Since we were talking about pedestrian right-of-way, why do so many pedestrians walk or run in the middle of the streets in the residential neighborhoods, even when there are sidewalks? I've never understood this phenomenon, and it seems awfully dangerous.

None* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chGHL and others
>
> Say what you want.But here is the truth. It has
> been said several times over.
>
> In ,,,,,I car is not required to stop for a
> pedestrian standing on the curb or sidewalk.
>
> Once the pedestrian is in the crosswalk, the
> vehicle is required to stop. If a pedestrian steps
> off the curb in front of a car they should have
> obviously seen, they are at fault not the vehicle.
> In turn, if a vehicle hits a pedestrian in c
> crosswalk that the driver should have obviously
> seen and had enough time to stop, then the vehicle
> is at fault.
>
> Some of these are judgement calls as to when the
> pedestrian was actually in the crosswalk, but no
> where in Virginia does a vehicle have to stop for
> a pedestrian waiting on the sidewalk to cross.
>
> I am sure there will be many shade tree lawyers
> that will argue this and call me everything but a
> white man, but I was a traffic cop for 10 years
> and handles many of these situations which
> resulted in wrecks. Trust me.....

if true then I guess pedestrians have to take one step down off the curb to the edge of the road. Its sort of interesting they have to be in the road but I guess if you were right on the edge out of harms way that would count. Very different than Europe. Many places there a human at or near a crosswalk is the same as a stop sign or red light and woe be unto him that keeps going in their car.

It would be nice if our area were more pedestrian friendly.

Thank you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you, None*. That was my understanding. So,
> my takeaway from this discussion is this: the
> public needs to be better educated about traffic
> laws.
>
> Since we were talking about pedestrian
> right-of-way, why do so many pedestrians walk or
> run in the middle of the streets in the
> residential neighborhoods, even when there are
> sidewalks? I've never understood this phenomenon,
> and it seems awfully dangerous.

In low traffic areas it can be safer to travel in the road vs. the sidewalk. I often do it in low traffic hoods because its more easy to run uninterrupted. Sidewalks have owners that dont trim bushes and trees so you get smacked. Uneven slabs and joints in the sidewalk can trip you. Worst of all are the noxious fumes from people that have their lawns sprayed with all kinds of nasty stuff to help it 'grow.' Also if you do have allergies you are further from the source on the street when compared to the sidewalk.

pedestrians need to yield to all traffic especially on the WO&D trail...

drivers dont know Wrote, in part:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Next time Im going to stand by the sign point at
> it and chuck rocks at douchys that roll past.
> 'Huh, must have been a road rock that flipped up
> and dented your lexus...'

I've considered putting rice in my pocket and flinging it at cars that don't stop. Won't hurt the car but will get their attention, maybe they'll stop and I can explain the facts of life using VERY SHORT WORDS.

When someone almost hits me, I usually slap the car hard with an open palm--also doesn't damage it, but about half the time they stop to yell at me, which gives me the opportunity tob both explain, and to offer to rearrange their anatomy if male, or to ask "You kiss your kids with that mouth?!" if female :-)

JESUS CHRIST!! - what the heck is WRONG with you people that you cant understand this?

when yr not IN the crosswalk, you have to WAIT. It's like you are a car at a stop sign, ok? YOU HAVE TO WAIT YOUR TURN!

No, you dont step out into traffic - that is STUPID and will cause and accident, SAME WAY you dont have right of way to drive out into traffic from a side street just because you are in a hurry, or cause you are all butthurt cars arent stopping for you to let you in.

@Greybeard - love how you feel how if a vehicle "almost" hits you you feel you have the right to hit that vehicle. Also better you feel the need to yell and threaten to psychically harm someone who at someone who has NOT at that time psychically harmed you. Just something to think about, my friend.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the take away:
> 1. Drivers SHOULD yield to pedestrians at
> crosswalks.
> 2. Many drivers, if paying attention to anything
> at all, are more attentive to what cars are doing
> than to what pedestrians might be doing.
> 3. When a car and a pedestrian come into contact,
> the law might favor the pedestrian, but the
> physics will usually favor the car.
> 4. Some people are just assholes. That applies to
> drivers, pedestrians and even on occasion people
> posting on this forum.

I agree. I'll add a #5

Anyone who places their life in the hands of a (possibly teen-aged/drunk/distracted/fleeing felon) driver they've never met before, by assuming they will follow the crosswalk rules/guidelines, will probably be donating their organs very shortly.

So, good news for all of you on organ transplant lists!!

Greybeard sez...

I've considered putting rice in my pocket and flinging it at cars that don't stop. Won't hurt the car but will get their attention, maybe they'll stop and I can explain the facts of life using VERY SHORT WORDS.

When someone almost hits me, I usually slap the car hard with an open palm--also doesn't damage it, but about half the time they stop to yell at me, which gives me the opportunity tob both explain, and to offer to rearrange their anatomy if male, or to ask "You kiss your kids with that mouth?!" if female :-)



Do you save this rice from gay weddings you attend? You obviously don't have a clue what the law actually is when it comes to crosswalks, which will eventually get your geriatric ass killed. I suggest you listen to (gasp) GordonBlvd.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JESUS CHRIST!! - what the heck is WRONG with you
> people that you cant understand this?
>
> when yr not IN the crosswalk, you have to WAIT.
> It's like you are a car at a stop sign, ok? YOU
> HAVE TO WAIT YOUR TURN!
>
> No, you dont step out into traffic - that is
> STUPID and will cause and accident, SAME WAY you
> dont have right of way to drive out into traffic
> from a side street just because you are in a
> hurry, or cause you are all butthurt cars arent
> stopping for you to let you in.

Really its like being at a 4 way stop intersection where you are the only one that stops. Practically you do have to wait but the other cars, by not stopping, are breaking the law. This is what you do not seem to understand. Further a pedestrian may enter the crosswalk without disregarding oncoming traffic if they stay near the curb allowing enough space for cars to safely pass. Then they are clearly in the crosswalk and therefore approaching are required by law to stop. See that wasnt so hard was it Gay Baby or whatever your dumb scree name is.

you seem to be unable to grasp the difference between a 4-way stop and a 2-way stop. A 4-way stop has ALL FOUR WAYS signed for alternative right of way. All 4 ways stop EVEN WHEN THERE IS NO TRAFFIC IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!!!

People dont do that at crosswalks normally now, do they?

Anyways, at a crosswalk at ANY intersection in the Commonwealth of Virginia, the Pedestrian has right of was WHEN THEY ARE IN THE CROSSWALK.

Yeah, there's a grey area about whether or not you are about to step into a crosswalk. And to be honest with you, all that comes down to is IF you get hit, is a jury of reasonable ppl gonna believe at that point in time, it made sense for you to step into traffic. Depends on the crosswalk, the type of roadway, the amount of traffic at the time, the speed limit of the road, type of neighborhood, all sortas stuff like that.


edit: Bottom line is, YOU LIVE IN A CAR-INFESTED AREA. You can namecall me all you want, thats fine and dandy - I'm more interested this morning in trying to save your life from getting killed. Cause even if you step off into that crosswalk and I KILL YOU, and even if I'm in the wrong when I do it....................................I get a 200-300 dollar ticket. That's it.


Do you understand? You step off into the street and I'm unable to stop and I'm not flying thru when I do this, then the worst I get is a Failure ticket, and a bunch of bad dreams. You die! You FUCKING DIE!!!

Or worse, you DONT die - you just cant walk the same for the rest of your life, or maybe you get real lucky, and only have pain in yr thigh on damp days, something like that.

Either way, driver isnt the loser in that collision - stay out of traffics way, my friend................



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2013 07:43AM by Gordon Blvd.

You guys are awesome. I say go for it. You show those fatties who is boss.

We'll take back the streets of Fairfax.


Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> drivers dont know Wrote, in part:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Next time Im going to stand by the sign point
> at
> > it and chuck rocks at douchys that roll past.
> > 'Huh, must have been a road rock that flipped
> up
> > and dented your lexus...'
>
> I've considered putting rice in my pocket and
> flinging it at cars that don't stop. Won't hurt
> the car but will get their attention, maybe
> they'll stop and I can explain the facts of life
> using VERY SHORT WORDS.
>
> When someone almost hits me, I usually slap the
> car hard with an open palm--also doesn't damage
> it, but about half the time they stop to yell at
> me, which gives me the opportunity tob both
> explain, and to offer to rearrange their anatomy
> if male, or to ask "You kiss your kids with that
> mouth?!" if female :-)

katiesmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys are awesome. I say go for it. You show
> those fatties who is boss.
>
We'll take back the streets of Fairfax.
>
>



let me guess.............you go to St Leo's, eh? LoLz

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Greybeard - love how you feel how if a vehicle
> "almost" hits you you feel you have the right to
> hit that vehicle. Also better you feel the need
> to yell and threaten to psychically harm someone
> who at someone who has NOT at that time
> psychically harmed you. Just something to think
> about, my friend.

Au contraire, they *have* psychically harmed me. Physically, no; psychically, yes. And I never start the threats--they do.

In any case, what I meant was people who think it's OK to zip within slapping distance of a pedestrian. If you think about it, that's way too close for comfort. If I drove that close to you, you wouldn't be happy. And people do it a *lot*, especially in parking lots.

@Krosswalk Killah: I see that I wasn't clear. Indeed, I don't mean cars that just don't stop for the crosswalk. I meant cars that try to intimidate pedestrians who are already in the crosswalk. If you walk or run, you'll know what I mean...the "I'm-too-importnat-to=stop, so if I just don't slow down at all, the pedestrian will leap out of my way" people.

This is all a matter of manners and comity. Both groups can coexist just fine with an injection of both.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you seem to be unable to grasp the difference
> between a 4-way stop and a 2-way stop. A 4-way
> stop has ALL FOUR WAYS signed for alternative
> right of way. All 4 ways stop EVEN WHEN THERE IS
> NO TRAFFIC IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!!!
>
> People dont do that at crosswalks normally now, do
> they?
>

Yes Im sure any living pedestrians with any chance of survival STOP every single time to check traffic. Every single time. S_T_O_P. If they dont they die and deservedly so. So back to the point you deflected, all a ped has to do is step of the curb, 6 inches into the crosswalk and traffic on his side is required to stop - no one does this. As he progresses to the other side of the road the other sides has to stop - some do do this but not all.

btw should I have used bold underline?

My daughter and I used a crosswalk marked with the yellow signs and giant stripes this evening on Wakefield Chapel. We carefully stepped off the curb and waited with our feet in the crosswalk. We were in the crosswalk on the road not the sidewalk. Not a single car stopped. I would say 20 cars zipped by while we waited. The cars are supposed to stop when we are standing in the crosswalk - no?

That's terrible. Worse than that these people want to pretend like they care about children. Yet they have no problem risking running one over who is fully following the law.


nostopping Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My daughter and I used a crosswalk marked with the
> yellow signs and giant stripes this evening on
> Wakefield Chapel. We carefully stepped off the
> curb and waited with our feet in the crosswalk.
> We were in the crosswalk on the road not the
> sidewalk. Not a single car stopped. I would say
> 20 cars zipped by while we waited. The cars are
> supposed to stop when we are standing in the
> crosswalk - no?

lol I jogged to my usual crossing and was gonna record the cars blowing off the crosswalk as I tried to cross and there was no traffic...

I'm glad to have seen this forum, especially getting the actual Virginia Code -
46.2-924.

I was crossing Fair Lakes Parkway northbound in a crosswalk from Rippling Pond Drive. Prior to doing so I looked left, saw no cars, looked right and saw a car far off. I proceeded across. As soon as I was a lane from the end the far off car came to a stop in front of me, honked his horn, gave me the 'bird' and told me "You don't have the Right of Way!".

I was so angry I didn't think to get a picture or his license plate. Arrrgh!

You walking losers are always in my way. I have important places to be so get the fuck off the crosswalks. You might fuck up my car if I hit you.
Bunch of fags.

It's the worst when you have the "walk" light, the little white man is all lit up for you, you cross, and the cars STILL won't wait for you to get across they make their left (your right as the ped crossing the street) coming from the other side of the street. It's like they SEE YOU HAVE THE WALK LIGHT AND ARE CLEARLY IN THE CROSSWALK AND THEY KEEP GOING ANYWAY, making YOU have to stop when THEIR LIGHT IS STILL RED THEY STILL WANT TO MAKE THEIR RIGHT TURN.

Maybe I will keep pennies in my pocket for next time they pull that BS. I try to WALK to my grocery store for the fresh air since it's <1 mile away instead of driving- but shit like this burns me!!!!

It evens out. Go to Washington and even though the light indicates "Don't Walk" pedestrians will continue stepping out in front of you...and every one of them is on their cell phone.

i am a redneck and i always stop.

its the prius with obama stickers (both elections) that will run you over.

lol yesterday I was at a light at Wakefield Chapel and Lttl River and guy just got tired of the light and took a left on red. Fantastic. I did see 4 lanes of Braddock Westbound stop for a woman using the crosswalk I imagine she is still on the island waiting for the east bound lanes to stop for her.

I stop if they are in the crosswalk or just off the curb. If they are across the street and I have room, fuck 'em.

It's a road UNDER 35 mph a motorist must stop.

katiesmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should take down license plate numbers and complain to the police.

And what do you think is going to happen? You realize that the police can/will do nothing, right? For a traffic offense, an officer has to actually witness a crime happening for them to issue a ticket.

#2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rules of the road Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I stop for hot chicks and kids. Screw a dude
> > walking across the street, get a fucking car.
>
>
> +1

What are a pedestrian's legal rights when using crosswalks?

In Virginia, a pedestrian has the right of way if they are not crossing in disregard of oncoming traffic when they are in a crosswalk, or if they are crossing at an unmarked crosswalk on a road that is 35 miles per hour or less. At a traffic signal, a pedestrian must obey the traffic signal. If a pedestrian is crossing and did not disregard oncoming vehicles, a driver that approaches must yield and allow the pedestrian to safely cross the street. Multi-lane roads present a dangerous situation for pedestrians in the crosswalk. A vehicle in one lane may stop for the pedestrian in the crosswalk while another vehicle in the adjacent lane is blocked from seeing that there is a pedestrian in the crosswalk.



Which road in the County has the most pedestrian fatalities and/or injuries as a result of a vehicle?

This data and the location can change from year to year. According to 2006 data, Richmond Highway (Route 1) is at the top of the list for pedestrian fatalities and injuries. The Richmond Highway Public Transportation Initiative is currently addressing safety issues along this corridor to hopefully reduce the possibilities of a fatality or injury. In general, most fatalities occur on high speed roads.