why is Fairfax County still collecting car tax after all these years? shouldn't it be zero by now? what happened to Gov. Gilmore's no-car-tax deal?

It turns out that--contrary to claims made by Mr. Gillmore--there is no such thing as a free lunch, afterall. I'm embarrassed to admit that I voted for Gillmore because of this issue--I think property taxes are a terrible way to collect revenue. Gillmore promised that magic fairies would replace all the revenue that used to come from the car tax and that we would all live happily ever after. The state didn't have the funds to replace the tax and the phase out was frozen to avoid futher budget catastrophies. It's time to put to rest the idea that Republicans are fiscally responsible.


no_soup Wrote:
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> why is Fairfax County still collecting car tax
> after all these years? shouldn't it be zero by
> now? what happened to Gov. Gilmore's no-car-tax
> deal?

Because Gilmore lied. It was never zero and it was never permanent. That's why Mark Warner is handing his ass to him in the Senate race. Jim Gilmore sucks.

Gilmore and Allen totally f*cked and raped the Commonwealth IMO...repealing the car tax was a great sound bite, but it didn't take more than an 8th grade education to figure out that this wasn't sustainable. Of course, this means that a lot of Virginians had no idea what was going on.

People wonder why such a large percentage of income tax revenue leaves NoVA for RoVA and this may be one of the reasons. The car tax, as hated as it was, was LOCAL revenue and now Richmond has to find a way to keep counties like Brunswick, Wise, Russell, Giles, Bath, Page and Pulaski solvent.

Mike Sorce Wrote:
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The car tax, as hated
> as it was, was LOCAL revenue and now Richmond has
> to find a way to keep counties like Brunswick,
> Wise, Russell, Giles, Bath, Page and Pulaski
> solvent.


They should find ways to keep themselves solvent. I don't mind giving the other guy a hand up but enough is enough. We're about to hit a huge budget crunch here - its time to look after our own schools and services.

Keep NoVa taxes in NoVa - secede from RoVa if necessary

I didn't see the real reason listed, so I will try to give it. Gilmore's plan called for a phased implementation of the car tax up to an eventual 100% reimbursed to the counties of Virginia. The phasing started under Gilmore, but was halted at 70% or whatever the number was under Warner. It was never raised, so now what you have is a 70% discount on the car tax.

I'm not Gilmore's biggest fan, but it is hard to blame him when subsequent administrations and legislative bodies don't implement the phasing plan. At least it's 70% off now, which is better than zero percent. I remember having to cough up a grand to two every year for that thing.

If the counties managed the tax money properly, there would be no need for the car tax, period!
You pay tax for the car when you purchase it.
You pay tax on every gallon of gas to drive it.
You pay inspection fee (which is just another word for tax).

The car tax is yet another way for the irresponsible governing parties to rape you of even more money.
Think about this for a second. They want us to pay tax merely for owning a vehicle and the more the vehicle is worth, the more you pay. This is no different from pirates boarding your ship and taking your money because they can. Why are we being punished for having a vehicle?

Our state taxes alone should be based on the yearly required budget needed for the operation of the state run organizations and programs. They do it this way in most of the states in this country, including MD, so why doesn't it work here?
Because they are mismanaging our money and involved in criminal activity such as sneaking this beltway toll road project in, and then handing it to a company in Australia.

For those of you that actually feel the car tax is needed, enjoy your steadily increasing state tax, federal tax, food tax, toll road tax, gas tax, sewer and water tax, personal property tax, fishing tax, real estate tax, sales tax, business license tax, phone bill tax and all the "essential" taxes yet to come.

Haven't you had enough of this shit?

You properly identify many taxes, but don't mention where those taxes go and it is relevant. The car tax went to the counties. But gasoline taxes go to the feds (highway trust fund) and to the state, safety inspection fees go to the servicing station (I believe) and (again, I believe) the emissions test fees are split between the servicing station and the state. The Car Tax reduction is an arrangement where the state reimburses the counties for what they otherwise would have gotten, and if they managed their budget down to zero it wouldn't get rid of taxes that go to the state or to the feds.

All of your examples are mixing County, State, and Federal government pots of money and programs, all who have different people who are responsible for the management. This is a necessary evil to preserve local control of money. It is bad enough only a quarter or so of what NoVA produces in state tax revenue comes back up here... hard to manage when the rest of the state is milking the area to the tune of 75%.

pgens Wrote:
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It is bad enough
> only a quarter or so of what NoVA produces in
> state tax revenue comes back up here... hard to
> manage when the rest of the state is milking the
> area to the tune of 75%.


and what are our elected officials doing about it? Sweet FA

Obviously not as much as they should be. The NoVA delegation, regardless of party affiliation, should do us a favor and form a voting block that will put some teeth back into NoVA's rightful influence.

Once you've been thoroughly ass raped by your car tax, the government spits in your face by adding another $25 for a fucking $.01 sticker to show that you paid your car tax.

We should be able to do what other states do which is pay a yearly State tax and let them decide which counties and agencies get what. This is their job, for Christ's sake. This nickel and dime here and there is just a way to make it seem less painful and a way to keep adding to it so it's not that noticeable.

A friend of mine recently got a traffic ticket and the fine was $30, but the "court cost's" were $61. Where does that money go to?

Again, when I do the math on all this, it just doesn't seem possible that this state could possibly have a shortfall. In 2006 there were 7,642,884 people in Va. Of that amount, lets assume half of those people pay $100 per year in state taxes. That adds up to 3,821,442,000 (for those of you that can't fathom that number it's close to 4 billion dollars). The majority of us pay far more than that per year and that does NOT include all these other bullshit taxes such as car tax( average of $4-500 per year per vehicle). Lets do some math on that.
Population of Fairfax county in 2006 was 1,037,311. Lets say that one third of that number own one vehicle with a car tax of $200. That comes to $69,154,066 per year of revenue on top of what they get from the state.

Most of us in this area have reasonably nice cars with a much higher tax rate than $200 and many of us have more than one car, so do that math and tell me if you truly believe that you're getting your money's worth out of all these taxes you pay.

Don't even get me started on the constantly increasing real estate tax (equally as fraudulent as the car tax), sales tax or the 4% meals tax.

Folks, add up ALL these taxes and you can clearly see we're being ass raped and our schools aren't getting better, their getting worse and more crowded. Our roads are old and outdated and they'd rather build toll roads so you get raped twice. The only subway system we have to speak of is the orange line that only runs from DC to Vienna, and that was built decades ago and is in shambles. We still have nothing going north and south except a fucking Choo Choo train running on tracks built around a hundred years ago. We still have no bridge across the potomac river south of the Wilson bridge. Christ, they wouldn't even build the dulles greenway to help us out and had to have a private company do it and then charge us out the ass for the "privledge to drive on it.
The police are constantly wasting our money on new paint jobs for the cruisers and all these other bullshit vehicles they'll never use. The county paid a million dollars of tax money for a fucking conference table and even more for the building it resides in which remains half empty. Then there was the fire truck that cost's out the ass that was too heavy to drive on the roads. Oh, and the genius idea of changing the name of Rt. 50 through Fairfax to Fairfax boulevard (which costed a fortune just for the signs to be replaced).

It's bullshit like this causes the state and local government to run out of money and make us pay a "car tax".
BTW, my car tax this year is $550 so I get raped and don't even get lubed up.

Don't forget the AMBULANCE Tax. The fire department charges $1000 for an ambulance transport. That is for ALL county employees too EXCEPT fire department personnel.

Ol' Dog Wrote:
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> Don't forget the AMBULANCE Tax. The fire
> department charges $1000 for an ambulance
> transport. That is for ALL county employees too
> EXCEPT fire department personnel.


Oh that is right about the ambulance fee. I thought it cost $300 from before? Now they have raised the ambulance transport fee to $1000?

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once you've been thoroughly ass raped by your car
> tax, the government spits in your face by adding
> another $25 for a fucking $.01 sticker to show
> that you paid your car tax.

Huh? These went away some time ago, to include the fee.

You're acting like Gilmore put in place some fabulous plan that Warner just didn't happen to implement. Once the budget went to shit they had to choice but to freeze the phaseout. Gilmore was just a typical Republican--promising something for nothing.


pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't see the real reason listed, so I will try
> to give it. Gilmore's plan called for a phased
> implementation of the car tax up to an eventual
> 100% reimbursed to the counties of Virginia. The
> phasing started under Gilmore, but was halted at
> 70% or whatever the number was under Warner. It
> was never raised, so now what you have is a 70%
> discount on the car tax.
>
> I'm not Gilmore's biggest fan, but it is hard to
> blame him when subsequent administrations and
> legislative bodies don't implement the phasing
> plan. At least it's 70% off now, which is better
> than zero percent. I remember having to cough up
> a grand to two every year for that thing.

Here... here! I second that.

PGens: I am impressed, you do have a brain. A thousand pardons 4 thinking you were the "Scarecrow" from "Oz".

Where do we meet and when to protest? I'm in.

Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're acting like Gilmore put in place some
> fabulous plan that Warner just didn't happen to
> implement. Once the budget went to shit they had
> to choice but to freeze the phaseout. Gilmore was
> just a typical Republican--promising something for
> nothing.

I didn't characterize Gilmore like that at all, I simply stated the sequence of events and that in phased plans you can't blame the guy who set up the plan but must leave office before the phasing is done... it's just a fact of life when phasing is necessary to cushion the state's fiscal shock of such a massive tax cut. I believe the step(s) that advanced the car tax reduction to 70% happened under Warner but I could be wrong and in no way faulted him in my posts for not bringing the total to 100%.

As for "promising something for nothing," my total car tax bill due this October is around $350. Without the 70% discount, that would have been almost $1200. I'd hardly count a break of $850 in this year alone "nothing." It is definitely something.

If you think the taxes you pay in VA are so bad, then move. No taxes are popular, and the car tax generates a lot of complaints but in the end, the total amount of tax you pay here versus any other state is about the same, Take MD for instance, they have no car tax, but what you save there will be cancelled out by higher state income tax rates, which includes a county piggy back tax that doesn't exist in VA, a higher tax rate on gasoline, etc. etc.

I agree that the state legislature, or whoever makes government spending decisions, could cetainly do a better job, but it's no worse here than in any other state.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree that the state legislature, or whoever
> makes government spending decisions, could
> cetainly do a better job, but it's no worse here
> than in any other state.

...and that makes it OK with you?

By your wisdom, It's not the people making the poor decisions on how best to spend our tax dollars that should shape up or ship out, it's us, the people they work for.
Brilliant!
Enjoy being a lemming and accepting everything as wonderful as long as other people like you are in the same boat.

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ...and that makes it OK with you?
>
> By your wisdom, It's not the people making the
> poor decisions on how best to spend our tax
> dollars that should shape up or ship out, it's us,
> the people they work for.
> Brilliant!
> Enjoy being a lemming and accepting everything as
> wonderful as long as other people like you are in
> the same boat.

Numbers, show me where I said it was ok. Total tax paid in Virginia is comparable to any other state. That was my point.

so what should we do?

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't see the real reason listed, so I will try
> to give it. Gilmore's plan called for a phased
> implementation of the car tax up to an eventual
> 100% reimbursed to the counties of Virginia. The
> phasing started under Gilmore, but was halted at
> 70% or whatever the number was under Warner. It
> was never raised, so now what you have is a 70%
> discount on the car tax.
>
> I'm not Gilmore's biggest fan, but it is hard to
> blame him when subsequent administrations and
> legislative bodies don't implement the phasing
> plan. At least it's 70% off now, which is better
> than zero percent. I remember having to cough up
> a grand to two every year for that thing.

PGENS is exactly right, Mark Warner halted the gradual repeal and it slowly increasing every year. It's just like his b*llS#$ campaign ads where he states he fixed Virginia's budget. What that douche did was draw up a new budget including all his fluff social programs the Republicans wouldn't fund and then called it a shortfall. He then pushed through THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN VIRGINIA HISTORY to fund it all. Lame duck Kaine is up to similar nonsense, namely purposely cutting the VDOT maintenance budget so that when the roads fall apart everyone is forced to pass his huge increases.

In 1977, Virginia ranked #34 in its tax burden (#1 was a tax hell hole called New York).

In 2008, Virginia is #18. Moving up towards the tax burden hell hole (which is now called New Jersey).

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/336.html

The car/personal property tax was a great tax. Its one of the few that you can truly control how much you pay. Buy a new car every 3 years like an idiot..pay more...buy more car then you really need...pay more! The car tax encourages people to keep their cars running as long as possible (the only way to make the purchase of a car even closer to a smart investment). The bulk of the cost of repairs is spent locally helping your neighbors and owners of small businesses stay afloat.

The problem with the tax is the way it is/was paid. In the olden days it was due Dec 5th...right before holidays! Talk about bah-humbug! It also is payable all at once...rather then built into the price of everything we buy. You see it..it hurts to pay all at once. This of course is a real problem for the bulk of people who are routinely making poor economic decisions...buying more car then they need...and not saving for rainy days and annual taxes.

As long as I have been paying the tax (fifteen years?) it has been due in early October, not in December.

The tax structure still has all the benefits you described. Amounts over $20k in value are taxed at the 100% level with no discount, while older vehicles valued at less than $500 or something like that are totally except from the tax.

I remember when the tax was due December 5. That sucked.

Then you got another bill in the Spring for the County sticker. It really was a cumbersome process.

Hell, I remember when they had County TAGS, not stickers. It was a metal tag about 12 inches by 2 inches and you bolted it to your front State licennse plate.
I think the Town of Clifton still has them.


I agree with Vince about the car tax. It IS one of the few taxes you can control. I pay VERY little car tax because to me, a car is strictly transportation, not an extension of my dick!

It's true that the tax was being phased out and was supposed to go to zero IF it didn't adversely effect the state's finances/budget. Any moron could tell you it would since they didn't cut any services. They were relying on the economic boom to cover their asses, and the stupid ass voters bought their shit; hook, line and sinker.

But voters are notorious for only hearing what they want to hear. Most people currently thing Obama is going to raise taxes, but in fact, if you make less than 250K your taxes will be reduced under his plan.

And everyone is jumping on Palin for supporting the 'bridge to nowhere' project in Alaska when she's one one that finally killed it. (Yes, she did support it initially)

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H. L. Mencken

why can't we just borrow trillion$$$$$ from China/Japan to finance our state gov't and leave our grandkids to pay our expenses with interest? worked for the Bush admin. Borrow and spend is painless and we get a free lunch on the grandkids.

I think if you look at the record, you will see that the Virginia State Budget went south under Gilmore. His whole car tax plan had brakes on it to stop it from phasing in if certain budget thresholds were not met in the Governor's budget projection each year.

In Gilmore's final budget, he simply made up a budget that included bond revenue that had no hope of passage by the Republican Legislature so that the budget thresholds for the next phase of the car tax would be met. This blew a huge hole in the budget, because the car tax was based on the Governor's projections, not on any reasonable reality. Then Warner came in a cleaned up the mess that was left behind.

So sure, Warner "froze" the car tax. But only because he had an honest budget. If you look at what Warner wanted to do as Governor, he didn't do it. The whole four years was spent putting the state on a solid fiscal footing - which included income tax reform - Virginia's income tax wasn't very progressive prior to the Warner-Chichester rewriting of the code.

Say what you will about Warner, but he was a responsible steward of the Commonwealth's budget. He made tough decisions and worked with the Legislature to have a solid budget. One that didn't rely on gimmicks, huge bond issues, etc. to balance the books.

I am a State of Virginia retiree.

I wouldn't vote for Gilmore for dogcatcher.

My check would be more if his mama had flushed that motherfucker down the shitter.

I'm glad he ain't gotta chance to win.