These thoughts are in reference to the person who walked into a Kroger in Charlottesville today with an openly carried AR-15 rifle.

Given the recent public mass killings committed by firearms users, wouldn't a reasonable bystander's reaction to seeing someone walk into a grocery store with a visible AR-15 be of great concern? Of course it would be, especially among those people who actually care about public safety.

So how far would or should a concerned citizen go to ensure the safety of her/his self and compatriots if near to someone with an exposed rifle in a public setting (other than a firing range, gun show)? Wouldn't it be reasonable to ask the armed person some questions?

Would doing nothing until potentially the person aims and starts shooting (assuming the weapon is Condition 1) a reasonable approach?

What would be an appropriate reaction among us if the firearm-bearer inserts a magazine?

What would be an appropriate reaction among us if the firearm-bearer inserts a magazine and loads the chamber with a round?

What would be an appropriate reaction among us if the firearm-bearer flicks the safety switch (the average citizen will not know the difference between SAFE or not)

What would be an appropriate reaction if the firearm-bearer completes all steps to make the weapon Condition 1 while pointing the muzzle at the floor?

Would like to read your thoughts, thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2013 10:15PM by Berdhuis.

It's legal in the VA skippy!

ROCKO MEATS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's legal in the VA skippy!

But what would you do if you saw someone complete one or more of these steps in public?

I would call the manager. It's private property and they could tell him to GTFO with his lack of manhood.

There is nothing you can do. If you call the police they won't show up unless you outright lie and say they are doing something illegal. Good luck with that when witnesses contradict you and the cops are wondering if you made a false statement(s) to them.

Don't be stupid. A person going on a rampage isn't going to just be walking around opening carrying.

Nutjobs who are going to shoot up the place operate with an element of surprise, so it likely will not be someone open carrying -- that is likely just an open carry activist.

It isn't a crime for him to open carry. People will call the cops and the cops will be forced to respond and assess whether he poses a threat. The person open carrying will not think it is reasonable that you are asking questions because he does not feel he is doing anything illegal -- and he isn't, though he is doing something that makes you uncomfortable.

It is a crime for him to do anything else you describe in your post -- it becomes brandishing a weapon if loads a magazine, etc.

A little off the original subject but if I owned a store I would not allow anyone to carry a weapon into it. Not because I hate guns but because I hate lawyers. If the guy fires the weapon for whatever reason the store is sure to be sued. A lawyer will point out that the store should not have allowed the weapon inside in the first place.
Like I said I dont hate guns I hate lawyers. If you think they will not sue over anything ask Subway about their 12 inch subs.

BrandonG.M.U. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Don't be stupid. A person going on a rampage isn't
> going to just be walking around opening carrying.

Why not? That person will have reveal the weapon in order to fire, right?

CitizenX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nutjobs who are going to shoot up the place
> operate with an element of surprise, so it likely
> will not be someone open carrying -- that is
> likely just an open carry activist.
>
> It isn't a crime for him to open carry. People
> will call the cops and the cops will be forced to
> respond and assess whether he poses a threat. The
> person open carrying will not think it is
> reasonable that you are asking questions because
> he does not feel he is doing anything illegal --
> and he isn't, though he is doing something that
> makes you uncomfortable.
>
> It is a crime for him to do anything else you
> describe in your post -- it becomes brandishing a
> weapon if loads a magazine, etc.

Thank you, but what would you do?

As for your reaction, it may be of great concern to you because you are letting fear control your thoughts and not probability. The probability of a mass shooting occurring where you are at any given moment (whether weapons are present or not) is infinitesimally small. Also, the chance you would actually see the weapon being carried openly before being turned on bystanders is even smaller since I don't know of a single mass shooting where the shooter attempted to peacefully open carry before shooting people. The types of people who open carry are not typically the ones who engage in mass shootings.

The number of mass shootings that have taken place is minuscule compared to the number of weapons that have been openly carried. So is the number of people who have been killed in mass shootings compared to the number of weapons owned. Statistically speaking, you have an equal or greater chance of being struck by lightning than dying in a mass shooting. Again, probability tells us that we should not be concerned but our emotions, which are irrational, magnify the odds of events like this (and terror attacks too).

What would I do?

Absolutely nothing, unless he did something to indicate he wasn't mentally stable like mumble weird shit or make a threat. He is basically trolling and wants attention. Don't give it to him.

CitizenX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for your reaction, it may be of great concern
> to you because you are letting fear control your
> thoughts and not probability. The probability of a
> mass shooting occurring where you are at any given
> moment (whether weapons are present or not) is
> infinitesimally small. Also, the chance you would
> actually see the weapon being carried openly
> before being turned on bystanders is even smaller
> since I don't know of a single mass shooting where
> the shooter attempted to peacefully open carry
> before shooting people. The types of people who
> open carry are not typically the ones who engage
> in mass shootings.
>
> The number of mass shootings that have taken place
> is minuscule compared to the number of weapons
> that have been openly carried. So is the number of
> people who have been killed in mass shootings
> compared to the number of weapons owned.
> Statistically speaking, you have an equal or
> greater chance of being struck by lightning than
> dying in a mass shooting. Again, probability tells
> us that we should not be concerned but our
> emotions, which are irrational, magnify the odds
> of events like this (and terror attacks too).

^Got your answer above, thanks. So you would do nothing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2013 10:57PM by Berdhuis.

For the same reason a bank robber doesn't just stand in line with a ski mask on. If your goal is to kill people why would you do anything that brings attention to yourself? If you are about to commit murder, illegally concealing a weapon isn't something you'd have much of a moral objection to. The whole point of a rampage is a quick attack that kills as many people as possible. The goal isn't to stand around and hope someone calls the cops.

Another thing is that many people open carrying are off-duty police or armed guards.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BrandonG.M.U. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Don't be stupid. A person going on a rampage
> isn't
> > going to just be walking around opening
> carrying.
>
> Why not? That person will have reveal the weapon
> in order to fire, right?

BrandonG.M.U. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the same reason a bank robber doesn't just
> stand in line with a ski mask on. If your goal is
> to kill people why would you do anything that
> brings attention to yourself? If you are about to
> commit murder, illegally concealing a weapon isn't
> something you'd have much of a moral objection to.
> The whole point of a rampage is a quick attack
> that kills as many people as possible. The goal
> isn't to stand around and hope someone calls the
> cops.
>
> Another thing is that many people open carrying
> are off-duty police or armed guards.
>
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BrandonG.M.U. Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Don't be stupid. A person going on a rampage
> > isn't
> > > going to just be walking around opening
> > carrying.
> >
> > Why not? That person will have reveal the
> weapon
> > in order to fire, right?

But what would you do?

Nothing, which is the appropriate response. Nobody is going to walk arlund with an empty pistol then load it in a public place or just cycle a round into the chamber while people watch.

I would do nothing provided: (1) he didn't show signs of being mentally unstable; (2) he didn't point, hold, or brandish the weapon; (3) he wasn't making threats.

If he did any of the above, I would call the police because a crime is either being committed or reasonably likely to be committed.

What would you do?


Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ^Got your answer above, thanks. So you would do
> nothing.

CitizenX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would do nothing provided: (1) he didn't show
> signs of being mentally unstable; (2) he didn't
> point, hold, or brandish the weapon; (3) he wasn't
> making threats.
>
> If he did any of the above, I would call the
> police because a crime is either being committed
> or reasonably likely to be committed.
>
> What would you do?
>
>
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > ^Got your answer above, thanks. So you would do
> > nothing.

Re your point (2), the person would already be holding the weapon, which is legal. Do you mean say that '(2) he didn't point, or brandish the weapon'?

I would call 911 immediately upon viewing anyone with an openly carried firearm in a public setting such as a grocery store. I would then continue observing the weapon bearer until either:
1. the police arrive, if they do.
2. the weapon bearer leaves the store.
3. the weapon bearer convinces me that he/she is law enforcement by providing ID after I ask.

BrandonG.M.U. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing, which is the appropriate response. Nobody
> is going to walk arlund with an empty pistol then
> load it in a public place or just cycle a round
> into the chamber while people watch.

Why not?

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if


IMMEDIATELY MOVE TO MARYLAND. Thats what you should do.

It isn't a lawful open carry if he is holding the weapon:

§ 18.2-282: It shall be unlawful for any person to point, *hold* or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance,whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured.

Also, there could be town ordinances that forbid open carry anyway, so I would also need to know that information.




Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Re your point (2), the person would already be
> holding the weapon, which is legal. Do you mean
> say that '(2) he didn't point, or brandish the
> weapon'?
>

Why are there so many liberal pussies in this area?

CitizenX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It isn't a lawful open carry if he is holding the
> weapon:
>
> § 18.2-282: It shall be unlawful for any person
> to point, *hold* or brandish any firearm or any
> air or gas operated weapon or any object similar
> in appearance,whether capable of being fired or
> not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear
> in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any
> air or gas operated weapon in a public place in
> such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the
> mind of another of being shot or injured.
>
> Also, there could be town ordinances that forbid
> open carry anyway, so I would also need to know
> that information.
>
>
>
>
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > Re your point (2), the person would already be
> > holding the weapon, which is legal. Do you mean
> > say that '(2) he didn't point, or brandish the
> > weapon'?
> >

There is a qualifier to holding the weapon. It has to be held in a manner "in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured."

So someone could legally hold the weapon if he/she did not induce any fear in someone according to the above guidelines. An example might be if that person kept the muzzle pointed at the ground, notwithstanding any expression the weapon bearer might be making otherwise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2013 11:44PM by Berdhuis.

No, because then you are "pointing" it. There really isn't a loophole there in practice. A cop will arrest you if you are holding a firearm in public and you will more than likely be convicted under § 18.2-282. The courts have upheld that holding a weapon is sufficient to "reasonably induce fear in the mind of another."

Open carry activists are told not to hold their weapons; they must be holstered.


Berdhuis Wrote:
>
> So someone could legally hold the weapon if he/she
> did not induce any fear in someone according to
> the above guidelines. An example might be if that
> person kept the muzzle pointed at the ground,
> notwithstanding any expression the weapon bearer
> might be making otherwise.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These thoughts are in reference to the person who
> walked into a Kroger in Charlottesville today with
> an openly carried AR-15 rifle.

Was he wearing it slung over his shoulder or holding it in both hands? The former is considered carrying, but the latter could be considered brandishing. The former is legal, the latter is not.

> So how far would or should a concerned citizen go
> to ensure the safety of her/his self and
> compatriots if near to someone with an exposed
> rifle in a public setting (other than a firing
> range, gun show)? Wouldn't it be reasonable to ask
> the armed person some questions?

The reasonable thing if it's slung over his shoulder is to go tell one of the store employees that some guy with a scary gun is making you feel upset feelings. The reasonable thing if he's carrying it in his hands is to tell one of the store employees that there's a guy walking around carrying a gun and you can't tell his intent.

Either way, if you feel concerned for your safety or your family's safety, you should probably leave the area. Please note that feeling scared is not a sufficient reason to call the cops. Someone breaking the law is a reason to call the cops.

> Would doing nothing until potentially the person
> aims and starts shooting (assuming the weapon is
> Condition 1) a reasonable approach?

Again, if it's on his shoulder, there's nothing you can or should do except wear a diaper in case a little pee comes out of you. If it's in his hands, then yes, you should probably express your concerns about the man brandishing a weapon.

> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if
> the firearm-bearer inserts a magazine?

Call the cops.

> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if
> the firearm-bearer inserts a magazine and loads
> the chamber with a round?

Call the cops.

> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if
> the firearm-bearer flicks the safety switch (the
> average citizen will not know the difference
> between SAFE or not)

Call the cops.

> What would be an appropriate reaction if the
> firearm-bearer completes all steps to make the
> weapon Condition 1 while pointing the muzzle at
> the floor?

Call the cops.

> Would like to read your thoughts, thanks.

I think this is a transparent attempt to push your own stupid agenda and make a big deal out of nothing.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Also, § 15.2-915 states that localities cannot make gun ordinances; state law reins supreme. I learned something there.

CitizenX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, because then you are "pointing" it. There
> really isn't a loophole there in practice. A cop
> will arrest you if you are holding a firearm in
> public and you will more than likely be convicted
> under § 18.2-282. The courts have upheld that
> holding a weapon is sufficient to "reasonably
> induce fear in the mind of another."
>
> Open carry activists are told not to hold their
> weapons; they must be holstered.
>
>
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> >
> > So someone could legally hold the weapon if
> he/she
> > did not induce any fear in someone according to
> > the above guidelines. An example might be if
> that
> > person kept the muzzle pointed at the ground,
> > notwithstanding any expression the weapon
> bearer
> > might be making otherwise.

Would slinging a rifle over the shoulder or across the back be considered a 'holstered' weapon? If so, then must the muzzle be pointed up or down?

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would slinging a rifle over the shoulder or across
> the back be considered a 'holstered' weapon? If
> so, then must the muzzle be pointed up or down?

This indicates that you don't know much about the subject material that you're trying to debate.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Either way, if you feel concerned for your safety
> or your family's safety, you should probably leave
> the area. Please note that feeling scared is not a
> sufficient reason to call the cops. Someone
> breaking the law is a reason to call the cops.

Not everyone is going to know the law as it is written, or even generally. Why should that bar someone from calling the police if they fear for their lives?


> I think this is a transparent attempt to push your
> own stupid agenda and make a big deal out of
> nothing.

False.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Would slinging a rifle over the shoulder or
> across
> > the back be considered a 'holstered' weapon? If
> > so, then must the muzzle be pointed up or down?
>
> This indicates that you don't know much about the
> subject material that you're trying to debate.

I'll admit that I don't know everything. Do you have an accurate answer to the question?

Keep wasting police resources and making up your own qualifiers for legal open carry. Because you must be right, and the laws are wrong, right? Your parents must be proud.

Berdhuis Wrote:

> I would call 911 immediately upon viewing anyone
> with an openly carried firearm in a public setting
> such as a grocery store. I would then continue
> observing the weapon bearer until either:
> 1. the police arrive, if they do.
> 2. the weapon bearer leaves the store.
> 3. the weapon bearer convinces me that he/she is
> law enforcement by providing ID after I ask.

Not 100% sure on that, but I surmise if it is in a sling or on your shoulder it isn't being held, pointed, or brandished so it does not violate §18.2-282. I don't think it matters which direction the barrel is pointing once secured but I think the preferred direction is down.


Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would slinging a rifle over the shoulder or across
> the back be considered a 'holstered' weapon? If
> so, then must the muzzle be pointed up or down?

CitizenX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not 100% sure on that, but I surmise if it is in a
> sling or on your shoulder it isn't being held,
> pointed, or brandished so it does not violate
> §18.2-282. I don't think it matters which
> direction the barrel is pointing once secured but
> I think the preferred direction is down.
>
>
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Would slinging a rifle over the shoulder or
> across
> > the back be considered a 'holstered' weapon? If
> > so, then must the muzzle be pointed up or down?

Thank you, CitizenX.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not everyone is going to know the law as it is
> written, or even generally. Why should that bar
> someone from calling the police if they fear for
> their lives?

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. If you call the police on someone you're scared of and they're not breaking the law, the cops are going to have more things to say to you than they are the guy with the rifle on his back.

Personally, I think open-carry in an inappropriate setting is stupid and borderline dangerous, even though I know it's completely legal.

> False.

You have a history of taking a strong anti-gun stance, so I can't help but think this is a way for you to proe some sort of point.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll admit that I don't know everything. Do you
> have an accurate answer to the question?

I don't know about assault rifles, but it's uncomfortable to holster my shotgun on my shoulder with the barrel pointed down. It also takes longer and more movement to pull it into the "ready" position with the barrel pointed down. Also, one of the prime rules of gun safety is to always keep the barrel pointed in a safe direction, which depends on the situation. Indoors I'd use barrel-up to avoid a ricochet off the hard floor. Outdoors I'd use barrel down so the misfire would just go into the dirt.

I'm sure the military has its own specific guidelines, but most gun owners know to carry the weapon in such a way that it won't hurt anyone in case of an accident.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Good discussion. This is a good topic. I am not sure what to make of open carry activists. I understand their point, but they create a public nuisance in making it. They come off as self-centered because they don't consider their effect on those around them. They are often frowned upon by concealed carriers for drawing unnecessary attention to firearms. Perhaps there are things I could do that make people around me uncomfortable but are not illegal. I choose not to do them because I don't get pleasure from making those around me uncomfortable. Rather, it makes me uncomfortable as well.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These thoughts are in reference to the person who
> walked into a Kroger in Charlottesville today with
> an openly carried AR-15 rifle.
>
> Given the recent public mass killings committed by
> firearms users, wouldn't a reasonable bystander's
> reaction to seeing someone walk into a grocery
> store with a visible AR-15 be of great concern? Of
> course it would be, especially among those people
> who actually care about public safety.
>
> So how far would or should a concerned citizen go
> to ensure the safety of her/his self and
> compatriots if near to someone with an exposed
> rifle in a public setting (other than a firing
> range, gun show)? Wouldn't it be reasonable to ask
> the armed person some questions?
>
> Would doing nothing until potentially the person
> aims and starts shooting (assuming the weapon is
> Condition 1) a reasonable approach?
>
> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if
> the firearm-bearer inserts a magazine?
>
> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if
> the firearm-bearer inserts a magazine and loads
> the chamber with a round?
>
> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if
> the firearm-bearer flicks the safety switch (the
> average citizen will not know the difference
> between SAFE or not)
>
> What would be an appropriate reaction if the
> firearm-bearer completes all steps to make the
> weapon Condition 1 while pointing the muzzle at
> the floor?
>
> Would like to read your thoughts, thanks.


link please?

Was he carrying it with a sling and the rifle was on his back? i know with a pistol and open carry, if you pull the pistol out of the holster, that's Brandishing a Firearm in Public and you will be arrested. So, I'd suspect that if he even had the rifle in his hand in public, that would be enough to charge him.

What should you do if you see a black man in a store? Everyone knows they commit 95% of all murders. Should you call the police immediately? This question is every bit as valid, if not more so, than the original question.

There was a big (insert you race of choice) (insert you gender of choice) at the (insert you place of choice) last night. Give the instablity in (insert you race of choice) home country, wouldn't a reasonable bystander's reaction to this be of great concern?

Just to be clear it is not considered brandishing just because you are afraid of guns. There must be some act to put you in fear other than just you being a pussy.

"But what would you do if you saw someone complete one or more of these steps in public"

Maybe look @ said firearm for a couple of seconds to, as they say, "check it out".
That's about it.

Oh, and yes, you're pushing an agenda. And a low grade fool, as others have correctly pointed out.

Be prepared for a stern lecture if you call the cops on someone lawfully and peacefully carrying. VA law is pretty clear on where citizens can carry, get familiar with it.

Or worse, you could end up getting sued for violating someone's rights.

@OP,

Dude, your messiah has already told you to back off. Your side is losing the argument and the great divider has directed his useful idiots to stand down and stop attacking/whining until the media can swing opinion behind him. This might take 6 months or more, so until then, STFU as ordered.


http://news.yahoo.com/obama-gun-control-advocates-listen-more-060727333--politics.html

http://www.nbc29.com/story/20719160/man-walks-in-to-hydraulic-road-kroger-with-assault-rifle

So, looks like he was just trying to make a point about his second amendment rights. Although he could have chosen a better way to get his point across.

Guaranteed that 99% of open carry activists will know the law better than you do. I'd never OC because of all the liberal dumbfucks in this area who can't tell the difference between an assault rifle and their own rear end.

The best thing you can do when encountering an open-carry monkey is laugh. It'll drive them nuts. :-)

Usually the cops harass or talk to (depending on the cop and his or her mood) the open carrier, not the person(s) who called police (who have the option of remaining anonymous). It doesn't violate the open carrier's rights to call the police and tell them someone is open carrying. (If I call the cops because my neighbor is on the edge of his roof and appears like he might be jumping, I won't get arrested if it turns out he was just up there fixing his gutter.) It is up to the cops to determine whether a reported event constitutes a threat to public safety that warrants investigation. They might ask the caller whether the open carrier is doing anything that suggests he or she is a threat and then decide based on that information whether to dispatch an officer. Or they might send an officer to ask the carrier a couple questions to be sure he or she is mentally sound and not a felon.




CHP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Be prepared for a stern lecture if you call the
> cops on someone lawfully and peacefully carrying.
> VA law is pretty clear on where citizens can
> carry, get familiar with it.
>
> Or worse, you could end up getting sued for
> violating someone's rights.

CitizenX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Usually the cops harass or talk to (depending on
> the cop and his or her mood) the open carrier, not
> the person(s) who called police (who have the
> option of remaining anonymous). It doesn't violate
> the open carrier's rights to call the police and
> tell them someone is open carrying. (If I call the
> cops because my neighbor is on the edge of his
> roof and appears like he might be jumping, I won't
> get arrested if it turns out he was just up there
> fixing his gutter.) It is up to the cops to
> determine whether a reported event constitutes a
> threat to public safety that warrants
> investigation. They might ask the caller whether
> the open carrier is doing anything that suggests
> he or she is a threat and then decide based on
> that information whether to dispatch an officer.
> Or they might send an officer to ask the carrier a
> couple questions to be sure he or she is mentally
> sound and not a felon.
>



Wrong. Usually the dispatcher tells you they'll have someone come out and then no one shows up or a cop will drive by 15 - 20 minutes later (if there's one in the area) who will look around as they slow down and then keep going. More than half the time, no cop will show up unless the call indicates a threat.

Interesting.

Several of you make the point that it would't be "rational" for a mass shooter to walk into a store with an openly displayed assault rifle.

1. So, you are saying that a person intent on committing the grossly irrational act of a mass shooting would not be carrying openly because that would not be the RATIONAL thing to do?

2. If open carrying assault rifles into stores becomes commonplace, then that will be the BEST way for a mass shooter to easily get an assault rifle into a store.

3. Legal or not, unless the rifle is being returned, or turned in for repair, or there is an ongoing crime situation, there is no RATIONAL reason to carry an assault rifle into a store. A holstered and snapped pistol, maybe, but carrying a loaded long gun into a store to blow away shoplifters is just plain stupid.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These thoughts are in reference to the person who
> walked into a Kroger in Charlottesville today with
> an openly carried AR-15 rifle.
>
> Given the recent public mass killings committed by
> firearms users, wouldn't a reasonable bystander's
> reaction to seeing someone walk into a grocery
> store with a visible AR-15 be of great concern? Of
> course it would be, especially among those people
> who actually care about public safety.
>
> So how far would or should a concerned citizen go
> to ensure the safety of her/his self and
> compatriots if near to someone with an exposed
> rifle in a public setting (other than a firing
> range, gun show)? Wouldn't it be reasonable to ask
> the armed person some questions?
>
> Would doing nothing until potentially the person
> aims and starts shooting (assuming the weapon is
> Condition 1) a reasonable approach?
>
> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if
> the firearm-bearer inserts a magazine?
>
> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if
> the firearm-bearer inserts a magazine and loads
> the chamber with a round?
>
> What would be an appropriate reaction among us if
> the firearm-bearer flicks the safety switch (the
> average citizen will not know the difference
> between SAFE or not)
>
> What would be an appropriate reaction if the
> firearm-bearer completes all steps to make the
> weapon Condition 1 while pointing the muzzle at
> the floor?
>
> Would like to read your thoughts, thanks.


Walk up to them and slap the shit out of them and see what happens!

How many open carry incidents have you witnessed that you know this to be a fact? I haven't witnessed a single one, but most of the news stories and videos posted online contradict your post. I have never heard of someone being arrested for calling the police about an open carrier. Perhaps you could point me to some examples?

The cops showed up for the incident yesterday at Kroger and detained the open carrier. He wasn't acting strangely or making threats. The cops just verified he wasn't a felon and owned the gun. If enough people call the police, they will show up to investigate.


Gunga Fin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Wrong. Usually the dispatcher tells you they'll
> have someone come out and then no one shows up or
> a cop will drive by 15 - 20 minutes later (if
> there's one in the area) who will look around as
> they slow down and then keep going. More than
> half the time, no cop will show up unless the call
> indicates a threat.

If they catch you making stuff up in order to get them out there they can charge you with filing a false police report. The dispatcher is going to ask you what the person is doing that warrants your call. If you say, he's just walking around they'll either tell you its perfectly legal or they'll just do what the British call being fobbed off. They'll tell a cruiser that its a low priority and if one wants to do a drive by whenever they get a chance they can. The last thing an officer wants is to have his time wasted for something that will more likely result in a complaint for police harassment filed against him/her than actually accomplish anything.

Sorry Gunga Fin, the part about arresting someone who calls the police doesn't apply to your post.

True, but if 10 people call the police about someone with a gun at Kroger, the cops are damn sure going to show up and investigate even though it could be completely legal. They are going to want to know why someone is there with a gun because it isn't a common or normal occurrence.


Yup Yup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they catch you making stuff up in order to get
> them out there they can charge you with filing a
> false police report. The dispatcher is going to
> ask you what the person is doing that warrants
> your call. If you say, he's just walking around
> they'll either tell you its perfectly legal or
> they'll just do what the British call being fobbed
> off. They'll tell a cruiser that its a low
> priority and if one wants to do a drive by
> whenever they get a chance they can. The last
> thing an officer wants is to have his time wasted
> for something that will more likely result in a
> complaint for police harassment filed against
> him/her than actually accomplish anything.

Walk up to the person with the gun, laugh at them and then take their picture to post here. We would all like a good laugh.

Sounds like another small penis guy.

It sounds very reasonable to be suspicious. That is why the Godfather said keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I'd be following the guy closely enough that if he reached for the rifle, I'd immediately prevent him from using it. 50/50 I'd wind up dead or a hero. Anyone who open carries an AR-15 rifle without intentions of being the next mass murderer is just trying to insight people and dare them or police to question him/her.

Errf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Walk up to the person with the gun, laugh at them
> and then take their picture to post here. We
> would all like a good laugh.
>
> Sounds like another small penis guy.

Sounds like you have done extensive research on penises.

Did you fondle the penises in your research or just look at them?

Are we talking flacid or hard?

If hard did you make them hard yourself?

Can you tell us what calibur weapons associate with penis size through your extensive study of penises? Would a large penis have a red ryder bb gun while a small penis has a 50 cal?

Please share your research methodology for your extensive study of the male organ.

Sneak up on him and put him in a rear naked choke or guillotine lock. Try to to break his neck as quickly as possible.

Generally speaking from memory (may not be 100% accurate):

In VA it is legal to open carry a pistol w/o a permit. That is a pistol holstered view able from all sides, as long as that person is 21 and allowed to own a firearm. Private property can restrict then if they please. They cannot be taken to airports or jails or courthouses or schools or places of worship without good reason (with a very minor caveat of it can be in a car secured in a school if you do not leave your vehicle, like dropping your kid off). It is also legal in VA to have a loaded pistol in your car w/o a permit (as long as it is in "common observation".

This state has preemption so this is true in all counties/cities and supersedes all local laws.

Given a conceal carry permit you can open carry in excess of 20 rounds. If this applies to an ar15 or not I do not know but the person doing it is obviously asking for the police to be called on him.

I have open carried but prefer conceal carrying (I have a permit to do such).

if you start seeing this on the street on a regular basis, i'd suggest you (and me) move to a more civilized country that doesn't allow demonstrably deranged people to walk-around town with dangerous weapons. Next we'll be having shoot-outs outside grocery stores concerning parking edict. if these people want to walk around the woods blasting animals to death to prove, well, i'm not sure what, i guess i have to live with that. but stalking around Krogers, that's a different story.

Do you trust yourself not to shoot people with a gun? Why not your neighbor?

beavis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you start seeing this on the street on a
> regular basis, i'd suggest you (and me) move to a
> more civilized country that doesn't allow
> demonstrably deranged people to walk-around town
> with dangerous weapons. Next we'll be having
> shoot-outs outside grocery stores concerning
> parking edict. if these people want to walk
> around the woods blasting animals to death to
> prove, well, i'm not sure what, i guess i have to
> live with that. but stalking around Krogers,
> that's a different story.

Same holds true for other dangers, such as Blacks. If you start seeing them on a regular basis, you should move somewhere more civilized/safe. While this may seem like negative stereotyping, it's statistically more valid than worrying about someone who's open-carrying (but granted, less politically correct than stereotyping gun owners).

You are absolutely right to point out that this is a very very scary situation and shows the ludicrous nature of a lack of a law that prohibits this. Plenty of crazy people, in fact the majority, have guns. (by definition, if you need a gun you are either extremely insecure or have very small junk) So someone walking around with a weapon of any kind, I would flee.

beavis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you start seeing this on the street on a
> regular basis, i'd suggest you (and me) move to a
> more civilized country that doesn't allow
> demonstrably deranged people to walk-around town
> with dangerous weapons. Next we'll be having
> shoot-outs outside grocery stores concerning
> parking edict. if these people want to walk
> around the woods blasting animals to death to
> prove, well, i'm not sure what, i guess i have to
> live with that. but stalking around Krogers,
> that's a different story.

We've had open carry for quite a while now and what you're saying just isn't happening. Sounds like you're paranoid.

I go to the same restaurant usually every Sunday. There is a guy who open carrys a pistol. I guess the owners are ok with it since he is in there. My issue is he has it in a cheap ass holster with the grip sticking way out. His back is to the other customers, I guess he likes letting everyone know he has a gun. The problem is if someone wanted to take the gun it would be easy to do. The holster doesnt even have a strap just an old leather case something like you would see on a western movie, I doubt weapon retention enters his mind.

beavis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you start seeing this on the street on a
> regular basis, i'd suggest you (and me) move to a
> more civilized country that doesn't allow
> demonstrably deranged people to walk-around town
> with dangerous weapons. Next we'll be having
> shoot-outs outside grocery stores concerning
> parking edict. if these people want to walk
> around the woods blasting animals to death to
> prove, well, i'm not sure what, i guess i have to
> live with that. but stalking around Krogers,
> that's a different story.


I thought you and butthead always said guns were cool? Whats the problem??

@Berd -It's not really something you see a lot of..............and the ppl who you do see open-carry arent ever really doing anything wrong. And the BIGGEST reason for me that I dont bitch about open carry anymore: you NEVER hear of someone who's open-carrying causing any trouble, y'know?

I used to freak about open-carry. But i've chilled out on it ALOT........and it's one of the opinions I have changed my mind about DIRECTLY because of input I received from Fairfax Underground about open-carry ppl. Cause truthfully, you a) dont hear about them causing trouble and b) when you see them, you can tell immediately that they are NOT a bother

If you see someone with a gun, you look at them. If they are acting as normal as pie, leave them alone. If they are acting wierd, get away and CALL THE POLICE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!

other than that, I mean what's the big deal? If you are in a store and the business is cool with it, then let the person be.

But still, if you are in public and see a gun and have ANY problem with it, CALL THE POLICE - let them deal with it. Dont EVER second-guess yourself, or hesitate cause you think it'll shame someone or cause trouble - it REALLY wont, and open-carry ppl................well they are grown people so they can handle themselves so dont worry they wont be mad LoLz

Better safe than sorry, that's for F**KING SURE!

Suggestions:

- Get up close and take his picture with your cellphone

- Walk around behind him with your hands in the air, saying "Please don't shoot!"

- Grovel on the floor at his feet and beg him not to kill you

- Tell him to "stick 'em up" and point your fingers like pretend guns

- Call the police if you feel threatened

Pop a cap in his ass. JUSTIFIED.