Obama approval rating is while republicans approval rating plummet.

Washington (CNN) - President Barack Obama's approval rating is back to 50% for the first time in more than eight months, and he currently holds an edge against all the remaining Republican presidential candidates in hypothetical head-to-head match-ups, according to a new national survey.

And a CNN/ORC International Poll released Wednesday also indicates that the GOP's advantage on enthusiasm has been erased, and that the number of Americans who think things are going well in the country is on the rise. Six out of ten say things are going poorly in the country, but four out of ten say things are going well, up 15 points since November.

What will the country look like when the last elephant is killed?

I don't think the republican party will survive this election. I see a spilt into at least three parties. One for moderate republicans, one for the Paul locos and one party for the evangelicals (or the American taliban.)

This is absolutely the most fun I've ever had watching politics. The agonizingly slow and rediculously expensive death march of the republicans, their henchman and patsies warms cockles I didn't even know I had.

I'm so lucky to be here, now, to watch such an epic and complete failure. Thank god the solution to republicans are republicans.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will the country look like when the last
> elephant is killed?
>
> I don't think the republican party will survive
> this election. I see a spilt into at least three
> parties. One for moderate republicans, one for
> the Paul locos and one party for the evangelicals
> (or the American taliban.)
>
> This is absolutely the most fun I've ever had
> watching politics. The agonizingly slow and
> rediculously expensive death march of the
> republicans, their henchman and patsies warms
> cockles I didn't even know I had.
>
> I'm so lucky to be here, now, to watch such an
> epic and complete failure. Thank god the solution
> to republicans are republicans.

Hey you have to give some credit to Palin as the VP in the last election. Now that was a sssshow!

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will the country look like when the last
> elephant is killed?
>
> I don't think the republican party will survive
> this election. I see a spilt into at least three
> parties. One for moderate republicans, one for
> the Paul locos and one party for the evangelicals
> (or the American taliban.)
>
> This is absolutely the most fun I've ever had
> watching politics. The agonizingly slow and
> rediculously expensive death march of the
> republicans, their henchman and patsies warms
> cockles I didn't even know I had.
>
> I'm so lucky to be here, now, to watch such an
> epic and complete failure. Thank god the solution
> to republicans are republicans.


Blah, blah, blah.

The same thing was said, practically verbatim, in 2008.

What happened?

The GOP came back and crushed Democrats in VA and NJ within a year. They won a Senate seat in MASSACHUSSETTS. Yes, Massachussetts.

The following year, Democrats had a massive implosion that they are just barely starting to recover from.

While you are looking over at the GOP, don't forget to watch over your shoulder at the Occupy freaks as they alienate your moderate support and fracture your legitimacy.

PS - You need to brush up on your idioms. Right now, you are heating up some clams.

Right Truth, but republican impotence, paralysis, obstructionism and failure is historically unprecedented.

If you can't beat Obama with his numbers, what does that say about you.

If we were Japs, you'd all hurl yourself off clifs after such an epic failure.

Truth Squad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>


Yes, but is Obama going up against Reagan or Clinton? Don't think so.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

You know Democrats are going to rev up the Tea Party with a third choice candidate and those tea Party fuckers are going to follow a blind lead and split the republican vote.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will the country look like when the last
> elephant is killed?
>
> I don't think the republican party will survive
> this election. I see a spilt into at least three
> parties. One for moderate republicans, one for
> the Paul locos and one party for the evangelicals
> (or the American taliban.)
>
> This is absolutely the most fun I've ever had
> watching politics. The agonizingly slow and
> rediculously expensive death march of the
> republicans, their henchman and patsies warms
> cockles I didn't even know I had.
>
> I'm so lucky to be here, now, to watch such an
> epic and complete failure. Thank god the solution
> to republicans are republicans.

You aren't the only stupid fuckstank out there.

"The early returns show so far that a number of Democrats are coming out and we are on pace to maintain the majority in the House of Representatives,"

Nancy Pelosi,
November 2, 2010

Okay blind man. Who's your candidate?

And how many of those republican tea party congressmen are going to be thrown out on their asses after their first term. Seeing they accomplished absolutely nothing that they promised and cost their precincts millions of federal dollars.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right Truth, but republican impotence, paralysis,
> obstructionism and failure is historically
> unprecedented.
>
> If you can't beat Obama with his numbers, what
> does that say about you.
>
> If we were Japs, you'd all hurl yourself off clifs
> after such an epic failure.


Did the Democrats fracture forever after Kerry's epic failure?

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay blind man. Who's your candidate?
>
> And how many of those republican tea party
> congressmen are going to be thrown out on their
> asses after their first term. Seeing they
> accomplished absolutely nothing that they promised
> and cost their precincts millions of federal
> dollars.


Not very many at all. If you think differently, give us a list. Do you actually think the Democrats can retake the House?

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay blind man. Who's your candidate?
>
> And how many of those republican tea party
> congressmen are going to be thrown out on their
> asses after their first term. Seeing they
> accomplished absolutely nothing that they promised
> and cost their precincts millions of federal
> dollars.

Amen! All republicans have accomplished is dropping the US credit rating from AAA to AA and trying to outlaw gay marriage.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will the country look like when the last
> elephant is killed?

You really want to know what happens when everyone sits on their ass and waits for the government to provide? One word: Greece.

Who's sitting around waiting for the government? I started my own buisness, what are you doing?

Waiting for the government to improve the economy is the same thing as blaming the government for wrecking it. You're as guilty as the people you blame. That makes you a hypocrite which is the same thing as a republican.

The Republicans are in trouble for one simple reason,,,they cannot point to one thing they have done to help the middle class or small business during this financial crisis,,,

They have done every thing they can to help the people who didn't need their help,,,and that's a small group of voters,,,

They seem to hate 80% of Americans,,,

When gas hits 4 bucks, BO's approval rating will go down to 35%

Just wait Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When gas hits 4 bucks, BO's approval rating will
> go down to 35%

Gas is expected to hit $5 and that will back fire on republicans. Obama can then step his rhetoric on clean and alternate fuels and say I told you so.

If gas hits $5 then Chevy Volts and electric cars will start still flying out of showrooms.

Hatemotor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Republicans are in trouble for one simple
> reason,,,they cannot point to one thing they have
> done to help the middle class or small business
> during this financial crisis,,,
>
> They have done every thing they can to help the
> people who didn't need their help,,,and that's a
> small group of voters,,,
>
> They seem to hate 80% of Americans,,,


Hey they are doing wonders for zygotes!

Cru Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Okay blind man. Who's your candidate?
> >
> > And how many of those republican tea party
> > congressmen are going to be thrown out on their
> > asses after their first term. Seeing they
> > accomplished absolutely nothing that they
> promised
> > and cost their precincts millions of federal
> > dollars.
>
>
> Not very many at all. If you think differently,
> give us a list. Do you actually think the
> Democrats can retake the House?

Cru must be longing for Thaddeus McCotter's comeback.

If you're a Republican, you should be pissed at all these crooked caucuses and polls. They just stole another one in Maine. This country seems beyond repair as corruption and lying are just ignored.

Casey Anthony Society Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're a Republican, you should be pissed at
> all these crooked caucuses and polls. They just
> stole another one in Maine. This country seems
> beyond repair as corruption and lying are just
> ignored.

They're republicans. Don't expect much truth.

Approval rating 50%. Percentage of Americans receiving some type of government entitlement 50% Hmmmmmm
Attachments:

b b bat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Approval rating 50%. Percentage of Americans
> receiving some type of government entitlement 50%
> Hmmmmmm

I get a laugh out of all the "republicans" that claim they hate "entitlement" programs and then I find out they're signed up for all sorts of government hand outs and programs.

b b bat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Approval rating 50%. Percentage of Americans
> receiving some type of government entitlement 50%
> Hmmmmmm


I guess that explains the republicans in congress 1% approval rating,,,

no one gives a shit about this political bullshit. obama is going to win, hands down, 2012 is the last year old earth. get over it. the end is near

Want to thank all of you, for your Powerfull stand against Oboma & His Corrupted political partners.

But there is so much more we can do. Being aggressive and focusing on the facts and truth is only the first step.

We musT follow Up with more details standing by our convictions and dont back down.

Oboma has NOT brought CHANGE, In fact ~! ~ THE ONLY real THING needing CHANGE !....Was Barack Hussein Obama II.

HIMSELF

Barack Hussein Obama II (

Who hates American Values ) who is A " SELF PROCLAIMED Enemy" ~of responsible, Morally Conscious HARD WORKING Americans.

oBOMAS Irresponsible & DRUG MAFIA and reckless supporters KNOW~ that Barack Hussein Obama II, WILL FORCE YOU to paY THEM, out of your PockeT .{ FOR all of their UNCHECKED Vices and THRILLS/

{ All on YOU

| / At your COST & Sacrifice.\

...This UN~CHANGABLE fraud, has done His VERY BEST to Inspire VIOLENCE.

THESE ARE OBAMAS OWN WORDS.. saying ......To his supporters.Saying “Get ready for hand-to-hand combat with your Fellow Americans” – Obama has ALSO DECLARED to his Supporters. “I want all Americans to get in each others faces!– Obama Demands !

“You bring a knife to a fight pal, we’ll bring a gun” –

THESE ARE OBAMAS OWN WORDS.. ANGER VIOLENCE And more taxes..... THIS IS OBAMAS Change for america /“Hit Back Twice As Hard”. He commands ! *Obama on the private sector: ~~ “We talk To these folks…~ / so I know whose a*$ to KICK.“ OBOMA wants to KICK your a*$ /```

Shouting THAT Republican victory would mean ~ “hand to hand combat” and HE IS EXPECTING people to be on Edge and ON BORDERLINE killing MODE, `` VIOLENT / and STAND and STOMP and MOB for their immoral CAUSES and THIS IS WHAT HE LIVES FOR ./ ./ ./ THESE ARE OBAMAS OWN WORDS.. !* Obama Tells democrats: “ I’m itching for a fight.” !

....PLEASE.... go to reXes NEW WebsiTe ~ ! Oboma *( Just like Adolf Hitler~~\oBOMA~~~ Demands ! -- [ THE FINAL SOLUTION - for Un~Wanted Children

Barak Obama is A MURDERER .~Torturing UNWANTED babys on DEATH ROE.

CLICK HERE http://obomlnation.webstarts.com/index.html

OBAMA TAKES a little NEW BORN innocent child, BORN ALIVE sTabS it iN the head and SUCKs ITS BRAINS OUT.

This is just too wrong and horrible. Please stand for Loving Children and the USA.

Respectfully and Thankfully Thank you ALL for your Time.

To see HORRIBLE HONOR Killings~` HATE CRIMES ]`~ ! eXecuted by the CLINTON,RENO and ATF Media WHO COMMITTED H0NOR KILLINGs [

SLAUGHTERING }] 21 LITTLE Helpless Children at Waco.

Click Here http://obomlnation.webstarts.com/partly_born_totally_murdered.html

Whoa, the republicans freak show really shines through in that last post. Scary!

PrestonDawkness posted:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Blah, blah, blah...

Yours is the least coherent post I have read in a long time. Please reconsider taking your meds.

Hmmm 50% of Americans have an IQ under 100, 50% of Americans vote republican. Hmmmmmm

See Pwestons post

Ive lived in some pretty backwards places in this country. Lots of white trash with tons of kids from different daddies. All on the governments teat and all hardcore republicans.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 11:06AM by Atom.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmm 50% of Americans have an IQ under 100, 50% of
> Americans vote republican. Hmmmmmm
>
> See Pwestons post
>
> Ive lived in some pretty backwards places in this
> country. Lots of white trash with tons of kids
> from different daddies. All on the governments
> teat and all hardcore republicans.

Ive lived in some pretty ghetto places in this country. Lots of minorities with tons of kids from different daddies. All on the governments teat and all hardcore democrats.

You are a genius.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are a genius.

I know.

I even know what apostrophes are!

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive lived in some pretty backwards places in this
> country. Lots of white trash with tons of kids from
> different daddies. All on the governments teat and
> all hardcore republicans.


see what I did? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive lived in some pretty ghetto places in this
> country. Lots of minorities with tons of kids from
> different daddies. All on the governments teat and
> all hardcore democrats.

The real difference is perspective. Poor minorities are smart enough to understand that the 'haves', the wealthy, the 1% continue to betray them; something poor whites are too stupid to see.

Color Blind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ive lived in some pretty backwards places in
> this
> > country. Lots of white trash with tons of kids
> from
> > different daddies. All on the governments teat
> and
> > all hardcore republicans.
>
>
> see what I did? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ive lived in some pretty ghetto places in this
> > country. Lots of minorities with tons of kids
> from
> > different daddies. All on the governments teat
> and
> > all hardcore democrats.
>
> The real difference is perspective. Poor
> minorities are smart enough to understand that the
> 'haves', the wealthy, the 1% continue to betray
> them; something poor whites are too stupid to see.


The real difference is perspective. Poor minorities have been duped into believing that the 'haves', the wealthy, the 1% continue to betray them; something poor whites are smart enough to see through.

Poor, White, and Republican

Posted by George Packer

F.D.R. called him “the forgotten man,” but that was long ago. By 1972, he was a member of the silent majority and had become a Democrat for Nixon (he wore a hard hat with an American-flag sticker). 1980 produced the Reagan Democrat (this time he came from Macomb County, Michigan, and was discovered by the pollster Stan Greenberg). By 1994 he had curdled into the Angry White Male (he elected the Gingrich Congress). In 2008, he was simply the working-class white—by then he was no longer forgotten, and no longer a Democrat of any kind; he was a member of the much-analyzed Republican base. The television godfather of the type, of course, is Archie Bunker, but you can also trace his lineage more darkly through the string of hard-bitten blue-collar movies that begins with “Joe” (Peter Boyle, 1970), goes on to “Falling Down” (Michael Douglas, 1993), “Gran Torino” (Clint Eastwood, 2008), and, in a rural context, “Winter’s Bone” (2010). He’s a descendant of the thirties Everyman played by Henry Fonda and Gary Cooper, except that in the intervening decades he lost his idealism and grew surly, if not violent, consumed with a hatred of hippies, immigrants, blacks, government, and, finally, himself.

This election year, he’s back and getting a lot of attention from sociologists and pundits (Charles Murray’s new book “Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010” sparked the current flurry of commentary). But in 2012 he’s no longer even working class. He’s fallen through the last restraints of decency and industriousness, down into the demoralized and pathological underclass that, in the past, Americans associated with the black poor. There, he lives on disability, is no longer fit for employment nor has any impulse to get a job, is divorced, fathers illegitimate children who grow up to do the same, gets hooked on meth or prescription drugs, does time in prison now and then, and has bad teeth.

Is it useful to make generalizations about whole classes of people? We all know the reasons why it’s not—they stoke prejudice, crush nuance, distort reality, are unkind and unfair. But just as it was wrong for a generation of liberals to reject Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s notorious 1965 report “The Negro Family: The Case for National Action,” it would be a mistake to dismiss the subject of Murray’s new book simply because it insults half of the Americans who weren’t already tarred by “The Bell Curve.” Murray has a talent for raising important questions on the way to arriving at invidious answers.

Perhaps the biggest political puzzle of our time is why, as the lives of working-class whites have descended from the stability and comfort of “All in the Family” to the chaos and despair of “Gran Torino” and “Winter’s Bone,” these same Americans have voted more and more reliably Republican. Sunday’s Times had a fascinating and disturbing lead story about the pattern of government dependency around the country. A map showing areas of greatest reliance on public benefits corresponds with weird exactness to the map of red America: the South, Appalachia, and rural areas in general.

In addition, reliance on the safety net has more than doubled in the past four decades. During the same period, median incomes in America have stagnated or declined.

The first fact goes to the heart of Murray’s books, from “Losing Ground” and “The Bell Curve” to “Coming Apart.” The second goes unnoticed. His persistent argument is that government programs do more harm than good and create a dependent class rather than alleviating hardship, because socio-economic differences are based on innate ability, not external circumstance. The white working-class has suffered a moral collapse caused in part by the sorting of society into rich and poor, with the traditional virtues surviving only among the former—not by an economic battering at the hands of globalization, technology, and corporate power. Inequality is a natural state, and people at the bottom of society should either resign themselves to their fate, or else revive themselves through a moral and spiritual reawakening (likely inspired by their betters) that will allow them to rise above the lousy hand dealt them by their brain power.

Visit most towns or rural areas where factories are boarded up and all the economic life is confined to strip malls, and you have to acknowledge the force of Murray’s picture. Rampant drug use, high dropout rates, out-of-wedlock births, epidemic obesity, every other working-age person on disability—it’s true even though Charles Murray says it’s true. And the predictable left-right argument over causes and solutions doesn’t help. Is it disappearing jobs, or disappearing values? This isn’t an analytical choice I find very useful. Jobs and values are intertwined: when one starts to go, the other is likely to go with it, and the circle becomes truly vicious. A textile factory moves south of the border, and a town loses its mainstay of employment. Former textile workers scurry to find fast-food and retail positions. The move from blue-collar to service work is brutal, and over time some employees lose the will to stick it out in a hateful job. Their children do even worse. Soon enough there are two or three generations of one family on government help, and kids grow up without a model of the work ethic. When a technology plant opens in the area (with a fifth the number of jobs as the textile factory), few locals are remotely qualified to work there. It’s a dismally familiar story—but is it a story of jobs or values? The obvious answer is both, which is why no one’s five-point solutions or three-word slogan is convincing.

In the Times story, there’s a man named Ki Gulbranson from a small Minnesota town called Chisago, both barely clinging to the middle class. He tries to make ends meet selling apparel and refereeing kids’ soccer games. All around him, he sees growing dependence on government. No fan of government spending, he joined the Tea Party in 2010; at the same time, he benefits from the Earned Income Tax Credit, free school breakfasts for his children, and Medicare for his mother. “I don’t demand that the government does this for me,” he said. “I don’t feel like I need the government.” Yet he finds it hard to imagine surviving without the safety net. “I don’t think so,” he said. “No. I don’t know. Not the way we expect to live as Americans.”

Gulbranson’s moment of hesitation contains a certain explanatory power. He doesn’t want to say that he can’t live without government. In places like Chisago, the old ethic of self-reliance is real and fierce. But it’s disintegrating under the pressure of several bad economic decades. People in Park Slope, Brooklyn and the north shore of Chicago don’t see their neighbors going on disability when they could work. But the more Gulbranson sees it, the more he resents the government. Perhaps he resents it most of all because he knows he needs it. That’s a political conundrum for both parties, but even more, it’s an American problem.


Read more http://www.newyorker.com/poor-white-and-republican.html

Poor, White, and Republican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poor, White, and Republican
>
> Posted by George Packer
>
> F.D.R. called him “the forgotten man,” but
> that was long ago. By 1972, he was a member of the
> silent majority and had become a Democrat for
> Nixon (he wore a hard hat with an American-flag
> sticker). 1980 produced the Reagan Democrat (this
> time he came from Macomb County, Michigan, and was
> discovered by the pollster Stan Greenberg). By
> 1994 he had curdled into the Angry White Male (he
> elected the Gingrich Congress). In 2008, he was
> simply the working-class white—by then he was no
> longer forgotten, and no longer a Democrat of any
> kind; he was a member of the much-analyzed
> Republican base. The television godfather of the
> type, of course, is Archie Bunker, but you can
> also trace his lineage more darkly through the
> string of hard-bitten blue-collar movies that
> begins with “Joe” (Peter Boyle, 1970), goes on
> to “Falling Down” (Michael Douglas, 1993),
> “Gran Torino” (Clint Eastwood, 2008), and, in
> a rural context, “Winter’s Bone” (2010).
> He’s a descendant of the thirties Everyman
> played by Henry Fonda and Gary Cooper, except that
> in the intervening decades he lost his idealism
> and grew surly, if not violent, consumed with a
> hatred of hippies, immigrants, blacks, government,
> and, finally, himself.
>
> This election year, he’s back and getting a lot
> of attention from sociologists and pundits
> (Charles Murray’s new book “Coming Apart: The
> State of White America, 1960-2010” sparked the
> current flurry of commentary). But in 2012 he’s
> no longer even working class. He’s fallen
> through the last restraints of decency and
> industriousness, down into the demoralized and
> pathological underclass that, in the past,
> Americans associated with the black poor. There,
> he lives on disability, is no longer fit for
> employment nor has any impulse to get a job, is
> divorced, fathers illegitimate children who grow
> up to do the same, gets hooked on meth or
> prescription drugs, does time in prison now and
> then, and has bad teeth.
>
> Is it useful to make generalizations about whole
> classes of people? We all know the reasons why
> it’s not—they stoke prejudice, crush nuance,
> distort reality, are unkind and unfair. But just
> as it was wrong for a generation of liberals to
> reject Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s notorious 1965
> report “The Negro Family: The Case for National
> Action,” it would be a mistake to dismiss the
> subject of Murray’s new book simply because it
> insults half of the Americans who weren’t
> already tarred by “The Bell Curve.” Murray has
> a talent for raising important questions on the
> way to arriving at invidious answers.
>
> Perhaps the biggest political puzzle of our time
> is why, as the lives of working-class whites have
> descended from the stability and comfort of “All
> in the Family” to the chaos and despair of
> “Gran Torino” and “Winter’s Bone,” these
> same Americans have voted more and more reliably
> Republican. Sunday’s Times had a fascinating and
> disturbing lead story about the pattern of
> government dependency around the country. A map
> showing areas of greatest reliance on public
> benefits corresponds with weird exactness to the
> map of red America: the South, Appalachia, and
> rural areas in general.
>
> In addition, reliance on the safety net has more
> than doubled in the past four decades. During the
> same period, median incomes in America have
> stagnated or declined.
>
> The first fact goes to the heart of Murray’s
> books, from “Losing Ground” and “The Bell
> Curve” to “Coming Apart.” The second goes
> unnoticed. His persistent argument is that
> government programs do more harm than good and
> create a dependent class rather than alleviating
> hardship, because socio-economic differences are
> based on innate ability, not external
> circumstance. The white working-class has suffered
> a moral collapse caused in part by the sorting of
> society into rich and poor, with the traditional
> virtues surviving only among the former—not by
> an economic battering at the hands of
> globalization, technology, and corporate power.
> Inequality is a natural state, and people at the
> bottom of society should either resign themselves
> to their fate, or else revive themselves through a
> moral and spiritual reawakening (likely inspired
> by their betters) that will allow them to rise
> above the lousy hand dealt them by their brain
> power.
>
> Visit most towns or rural areas where factories
> are boarded up and all the economic life is
> confined to strip malls, and you have to
> acknowledge the force of Murray’s picture.
> Rampant drug use, high dropout rates,
> out-of-wedlock births, epidemic obesity, every
> other working-age person on disability—it’s
> true even though Charles Murray says it’s true.
> And the predictable left-right argument over
> causes and solutions doesn’t help. Is it
> disappearing jobs, or disappearing values? This
> isn’t an analytical choice I find very useful.
> Jobs and values are intertwined: when one starts
> to go, the other is likely to go with it, and the
> circle becomes truly vicious. A textile factory
> moves south of the border, and a town loses its
> mainstay of employment. Former textile workers
> scurry to find fast-food and retail positions. The
> move from blue-collar to service work is brutal,
> and over time some employees lose the will to
> stick it out in a hateful job. Their children do
> even worse. Soon enough there are two or three
> generations of one family on government help, and
> kids grow up without a model of the work ethic.
> When a technology plant opens in the area (with a
> fifth the number of jobs as the textile factory),
> few locals are remotely qualified to work there.
> It’s a dismally familiar story—but is it a
> story of jobs or values? The obvious answer is
> both, which is why no one’s five-point solutions
> or three-word slogan is convincing.
>
> In the Times story, there’s a man named Ki
> Gulbranson from a small Minnesota town called
> Chisago, both barely clinging to the middle class.
> He tries to make ends meet selling apparel and
> refereeing kids’ soccer games. All around him,
> he sees growing dependence on government. No fan
> of government spending, he joined the Tea Party in
> 2010; at the same time, he benefits from the
> Earned Income Tax Credit, free school breakfasts
> for his children, and Medicare for his mother.
> “I don’t demand that the government does this
> for me,” he said. “I don’t feel like I need
> the government.” Yet he finds it hard to imagine
> surviving without the safety net. “I don’t
> think so,” he said. “No. I don’t know. Not
> the way we expect to live as Americans.”
>
> Gulbranson’s moment of hesitation contains a
> certain explanatory power. He doesn’t want to
> say that he can’t live without government. In
> places like Chisago, the old ethic of
> self-reliance is real and fierce. But it’s
> disintegrating under the pressure of several bad
> economic decades. People in Park Slope, Brooklyn
> and the north shore of Chicago don’t see their
> neighbors going on disability when they could
> work. But the more Gulbranson sees it, the more he
> resents the government. Perhaps he resents it most
> of all because he knows he needs it. That’s a
> political conundrum for both parties, but even
> more, it’s an American problem.
>
>
> Read more
> http://www.newyorker.com/poor-white-and-republican
> .html


tl:dr

yeah, right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tl:dr

Why then did you quote the entire post?

TBFY (too bad for you)

ASR (another stupid republican)

Inquiring Minds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah, right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tl:dr
>
> Why then did you quote the entire post?


It isn't that hard to hit the quote button. I didn't have to read it to click it, ya know?

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TBFY (too bad for you)
>
> ASR (another stupid republican)


Yeah, maybe it is too bad, but I am definitely not a Repuclican. I have voted for a Democrat in every election since I could first vote in 2001.

If the Democrats had practiced a little bit of that obstructionism in 2002 and 2003, we wouldn't be in this mess. They blame the Republicans for the tax cuts, but the tax cuts for the rich in the Bush tax cut stimulus only account for 80 billion dollars a year. The various tax credits and reduction in tax rates for the other income brackets add another 300 billion dollars a year to the deficit.

Poor, White, and Republican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poor, White, and Republican
>
> Posted by George Packer
>
> F.D.R. called him “the forgotten man,” but


That's about all I read.

Summary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's about all I read.

And that's why (or perhaps because) you're not very bright.

yeah, right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It isn't that hard to hit the quote button. I
> didn't have to read it to click it, ya know?

Ah, lazy & incurious. I'm sure you've come far in life. Your parents must be so proud.

yeah, right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have voted for a Democrat in every election
> since I could first vote in 2001.

Ha! You were born the year I was first able to vote.

Inquiring Minds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah, right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It isn't that hard to hit the quote button. I
> > didn't have to read it to click it, ya know?
>
> Ah, lazy & incurious. I'm sure you've come far in
> life. Your parents must be so proud.


LOL. You have drawn a correlation between my indifference/standard of care on this website and success in real life?

There is no need for me to tell the world how pathetic and dimwitted that makes you as you have accomplished that on your own.

yeah, right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL. You have drawn a correlation between my
> indifference/standard of care on this website and
> success in real life?

No, I have made an inference, based upon your behavior here, that you are lazy & incurious generally.

Inquiring Minds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah, right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LOL. You have drawn a correlation between my
> > indifference/standard of care on this website
> and
> > success in real life?
>
> No, I have made an inference, based upon your
> behavior here, that you are lazy & incurious
> generally.


LOL. Exactly. You take this Fairfax Underground stuff pretty seriously, no?

Word of advice, avoid making any inferences as you don't have the mental wherewithal to come up with logical conclusions.

yeah, right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You take this Fairfax Underground
> stuff pretty seriously, no?

I am serious in all aspects of my life. Are you not?

Well, no matter. Doesn't Judge Judy or General Hospital start soon?

Inquiring Minds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah, right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You take this Fairfax Underground
> > stuff pretty seriously, no?
>
> I am serious in all aspects of my life. Are you
> not?

No, but I am sure I am a much more interesting person and more enjoyable to be around. You should learn to not be so serious all the time.

> Well, no matter. Doesn't Judge Judy or General
> Hospital start soon?

The fact that you would even speculate about what time the programs come on indicates our respective lots in life. I am sure if you keep up your serious attitude here on the Fairfax Underground things will start looking up for you.

yeah, right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact that you would even speculate about what
> time the programs come on indicates our respective
> lots in life. I am sure if you keep up your
> serious attitude here on the Fairfax Underground
> things will start looking up for you.

That was for your benefit, Laddie. I can imagine how easy it would be to lose track of time down there in you Mother's basement.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TBFY (too bad for you)
>
> ASR (another stupid republican)


It is funny and instructive that when liberals are cornered and checkmated in the arena of ideas their defense mechanism kicks in and all they can do is call republicans, conservatives or whatever "stupid".

The 45% who are dependent upon whatever scraps their warriors in DC can promise them in exchange for power are suppose to be the smart among us. If conservatives are stupid what does that make you? We should easily be relegated a permanent minority. You call us stupid but we sure as fuck outproduce, outperform and outsmart you at every turn.

45% of our citizens are a losers because they are inferior in their abilities to access the opportunities that lie right outside their doors.

The truth is if you are a failure for any extended amount of time in this country, YOU are the stupid one. Not I.

Ronaldus Maximus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TBFY (too bad for you)
> >
> > ASR (another stupid republican)
>
>
> It is funny and instructive that when liberals are
> cornered and checkmated in the arena of ideas
> their defense mechanism kicks in and all they can
> do is call republicans, conservatives or whatever
> "stupid".
>
> The 45% who are dependent upon whatever scraps
> their warriors in DC can promise them in exchange
> for power are suppose to be the smart among us. If
> conservatives are stupid what does that make you?
> We should easily be relegated a permanent
> minority. You call us stupid but we sure as fuck
> outproduce, outperform and outsmart you at every
> turn.
>
> 45% of our citizens are a losers because they are
> inferior in their abilities to access the
> opportunities that lie right outside their doors.
>
> The truth is if you are a failure for any extended
> amount of time in this country, YOU are the stupid
> one. Not I.

Best hypocritical post ever!

Ronaldus Maximus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TBFY (too bad for you)
> >
> > ASR (another stupid republican)
>
>
> It is funny and instructive that when liberals are
> cornered and checkmated in the arena of ideas
> their defense mechanism kicks in and all they can
> do is call republicans, conservatives or whatever
> "stupid".
>
> The 45% who are dependent upon whatever scraps
> their warriors in DC can promise them in exchange
> for power are suppose to be the smart among us. If
> conservatives are stupid what does that make you?
> We should easily be relegated a permanent
> minority. You call us stupid but we sure as fuck
> outproduce, outperform and outsmart you at every
> turn.
>
> 45% of our citizens are a losers because they are
> inferior in their abilities to access the
> opportunities that lie right outside their doors.
>
> The truth is if you are a failure for any extended
> amount of time in this country, YOU are the stupid
> one. Not I.


Liberals don't debate. They call names.

But, let's remember where most of them come from...... dysfunction, inner city poverty, gangs, union thuggery, etc. All they know is the gutter so they argue with shit in their mouths. Lying, name calling and foul discourse is what the liberal grew up with.

Inquiring Minds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That was for your benefit, Laddie. I can imagine
> how easy it would be to lose track of time down
> there in you Mother's basement.

A mom's basement joke? You couldn't come up with an insult from this century? Suffice to say, I can buy your mom's house and yours (if you even own one which is doubtful given you know the time crap shows and soap operas start).

TheyRwhatTheyR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ronaldus Maximus Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Atom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > TBFY (too bad for you)
> > >
> > > ASR (another stupid republican)
> >
> >
> > It is funny and instructive that when liberals
> are
> > cornered and checkmated in the arena of ideas
> > their defense mechanism kicks in and all they
> can
> > do is call republicans, conservatives or
> whatever
> > "stupid".
> >
> > The 45% who are dependent upon whatever scraps
> > their warriors in DC can promise them in
> exchange
> > for power are suppose to be the smart among us.
> If
> > conservatives are stupid what does that make
> you?
> > We should easily be relegated a permanent
> > minority. You call us stupid but we sure as
> fuck
> > outproduce, outperform and outsmart you at
> every
> > turn.
> >
> > 45% of our citizens are a losers because they
> are
> > inferior in their abilities to access the
> > opportunities that lie right outside their
> doors.
> >
> > The truth is if you are a failure for any
> extended
> > amount of time in this country, YOU are the
> stupid
> > one. Not I.
>
>
> Liberals don't debate. They call names.
>
> But, let's remember where most of them come
> from...... dysfunction, inner city poverty,
> gangs, union thuggery, etc. All they know is the
> gutter so they argue with shit in their mouths.
> Lying, name calling and foul discourse is what the
> liberal grew up with.

It wasn't until Obama was elected that I started hearing all sorts of Obuma, Obamination etc...

We all know who has been making up and calling names. It's not the liberals or Democrats.

yeah, right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A mom's basement joke? You couldn't come up with
> an insult from this century?

I could have, but sometimes the classics are irreplaceable.

> Suffice [it] to say, I can buy your mom's house and yours.

Ah, yes. The ol' 'internet rich guy' shtick. Your lack of originality is hardly surprising.

I heard Obamas approval rating was 102%.

When you have almost half the country receiving some sort of governnment entitlement I would say his winning this November is in the bag.

Inquiring Minds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah, right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A mom's basement joke? You couldn't come up
> with
> > an insult from this century?
>
> I could have, but sometimes the classics are
> irreplaceable.

No you couldn't which explains why you haven't left Fairfax Underground in three days. I take a couple days off and you haven't moved. I respond and you cant even go 10 minutes without waiting to respond. Curious that it is right around 3 pm again. Thanks for confirming that you do know with certainty what time Judge Judy comes on.

Sorry to keep you waiting three days, but you need to get out more often. You weren't kidding when you said you take this site seriously!


> > Suffice to say, I can buy your mom's house and
> yours.
>
> Ah, yes. The ol' 'internet rich guy' shtick.
> Your lack of originality is hardly surprising.

Says the serious crybaby with the mom's basement material. LOL.

I am sure your condo was a great investment. LOL.

yeah, right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No you couldn't which explains why you haven't
> left Fairfax Underground in three days.

It took you 3 days to respond to my last post on 2/17? Things must REALLY be hoppin' down in the basement these days! LOL!

TheyRwhatTheyR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liberals don't debate. They call names.
>
> But, let's remember where most of them come
> from...... dysfunction, inner city poverty,
> gangs, union thuggery, etc. All they know is the
> gutter so they argue with shit in their mouths.
> Lying, name calling and foul discourse is what the
> liberal grew up with.


I'm assuming that you are actually a liberal attempting to make conservatives look bad.

Genevieve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheyRwhatTheyR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Liberals don't debate. They call names.
> >
> > But, let's remember where most of them come
> > from...... dysfunction, inner city poverty,
> > gangs, union thuggery, etc. All they know is
> the
> > gutter so they argue with shit in their mouths.
> > Lying, name calling and foul discourse is what
> the
> > liberal grew up with.
>
>
> I'm assuming that you are actually a liberal
> attempting to make conservatives look bad.

+1, Obvious fake post by a liberal trying to embarrass republicans. I'll bet you $10,000 on that.

Limo Rider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> +1, Obvious fake post by a liberal trying to
> embarrass republicans.

As if Republicans need anyone's help embarassing themselves.

> I'll bet you $10,000 on that.

LOL!

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TBFY (too bad for you)
>
> ASR (another stupid republican)

YAABSLLWSSTFUD (you are a blood sucking lying liberal worm so shut the fuck up dipshit)

Thugo (.)(.) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Limo Rider Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > +1, Obvious fake post by a liberal trying to
> > embarrass republicans.
>
> As if Republicans need anyone's help embarassing
> themselves.

LOL, look at the Democrat who never learned how to spell "embarrassing" but I'll bet you $10,000 he learned how to spell "welfare".

Inquiring Minds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah, right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No you couldn't which explains why you haven't
> > left Fairfax Underground in three days.
>
> It took you 3 days to respond to my last post on
> 2/17? Things must REALLY be hoppin' down in the
> basement these days! LOL!


Spoken like a man that doesn't leave the house or this website. Get out more, buddy. There is a whole big world out there beyond your apartment door!

Obama's approval rating will continue to grow as republicans flounder in a sea of a religious agendas.

Is the economy really improving or do people just keep refinancing thier homes to offset income loss from inflation.

I personaly know handfulls of people who have refi'd twice since Obama took office. They saved e anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand from their monthly mortgage payments.

Rates are already in the 3's, how much lower can they keep going?

Hay Zeus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is the economy really improving or do people just
> keep refinancing thier homes to offset income loss
> from inflation.
>
> I personaly know handfulls of people who have
> refi'd twice since Obama took office. They saved e
> anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand from
> their monthly mortgage payments.
>
> Rates are already in the 3's, how much lower can
> they keep going?

I am one of them. Two no cash out refis in the past 18 months. The last one paid for itself in 11 months. This one will pay for itself in 13 months. Total savings = $700/mo.

With gas jumping 10 cents or more a week it wont be long before the shaky economy takes a big dive. But Obama can spend another three trillion dollars to make things right.

pain at the pump Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With gas jumping 10 cents or more a week it wont
> be long before the shaky economy takes a big dive.
> But Obama can spend another three trillion dollars
> to make things right.

Time to get off oil! Clean energy! These oil companies price rig all the time. F Them!

Hay Zeus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is the economy really improving

Looks like it is - housing stats today very encouraging.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/existing-home-sales-1-1-150611689.html

Save the US! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pain at the pump Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > With gas jumping 10 cents or more a week it
> wont
> > be long before the shaky economy takes a big
> dive.
> > But Obama can spend another three trillion
> dollars
> > to make things right.
>
> Time to get off oil! Clean energy! These oil
> companies price rig all the time. F Them!
>
>


You're stupid.

4 more years, II Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hay Zeus Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is the economy really improving
>
> Looks like it is - housing stats today very
> encouraging.
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/existing-home-sales-
> 1-1-150611689.html

If you believe the number of home sold in January exceed those in the Spring and Summer, you have to be very gullible.

The National Association of Realtors is cooking the numbers.

"However, the tenor of the report was weakened somewhat by a sharp downward revision to December's sales data to show only a 4.38 million-unit rate rather than the previously reported 4.61 million-unit pace.

That followed an annual revision of the seasonal factors for the series going back three years."

lib=low/IQ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Save the US! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > pain at the pump Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > With gas jumping 10 cents or more a week it
> > wont
> > > be long before the shaky economy takes a big
> > dive.
> > > But Obama can spend another three trillion
> > dollars
> > > to make things right.
> >
> > Time to get off oil! Clean energy! These oil
> > companies price rig all the time. F Them!
> >
> >
>
>
> You're stupid.

YOU LIE!

> ...cooking the numbers...

Wow!

If one believes the braindead Imploding Party of No supporters (hey! Why not! They wouldn't make things up!) =every= single statistic showing economic improvement that has come out from a WIDE variety of independent entities has been COOKED to make Obama look good!

Ya know what THAT means!?

It means Obama is one POWERFUL and EFFECTIVE President!

EVERYONE is doing his bidding!

I =want= someone like that in office a-GAIN!

4 more years.

Bet on it.

I'm begining to notice a pattern with all these statistics...after all the media fanfare they seem to be readjusted a few weeks later and the number is never as good as first reported.

Rising gas prices are a big problem. They definently remain the penultimate precursor to economic turmoil. I'm sure the oil execs are trying for a peak of $6.00 to compensate for the increased fuel efficiency we've achieved since the last days of Bush.

However, it would be much better for the GOOP if they peaked in August or September instead of April or May.

I have a great idea, let's invade Iran (i hear they have nukes) and force them to sell us cheap oil. Bet we could topple the regiem in like 3 months. Let's get some shock and awe in here, Dick Cheny needs a new pair of shoes. owwww, da da da da da da dun da, dada Dun da, dada dun da, bah bah, you've been hit by, you've been struck by, some smooth criminals.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rising gas prices are a big problem. They
> definently remain the penultimate precursor to
> economic turmoil. I'm sure the oil execs are
> trying for a peak of $6.00 to compensate for the
> increased fuel efficiency we've achieved since the
> last days of Bush.
>
> However, it would be much better for the GOOP if
> they peaked in August or September instead of
> April or May.
>
> I have a great idea, let's invade Iran (i hear
> they have nukes) and force them to sell us cheap
> oil. Bet we could topple the regiem in like 3
> months. Let's get some shock and awe in here,
> Dick Cheny needs a new pair of shoes. owwww, da da
> da da da da dun da, dada Dun da, dada dun da, bah
> bah, you've been hit by, you've been struck by,
> some smooth criminals.


I take it you walk to work right? Totally ignorant of the devalued dollar since Obama increased spending. You need to get your head out of your ass and look at other commodity prices. A loaf of bread $4.00 and you focus on oil. Oil is only one of many commodities going to skyrocket as the U S takes on more debt they can never pay off.

Glad you pointed out food. Since we spend less of our income on food than any socioty throughout the history of time.

Oil is controlled by cartels, much like diamonds. The only difference is, that oil is a non disposable good. Things have been dying on this planet for billions of years, there's plenty of oil to burn. Our anti-trust laws were written to combat american oil monopolies.

Oil prices are intrinsic to everything in our economy.

The debt argument is rediculous. You are a pawn. One reason for a government is to buck trends. You spend in a recession you save when things are good. Hopefully, whoever is in charge during our next peak will learn from all the treasure Bush wasted.

Thankfully, our democratic socioty allows people to innovate so Americans can pull ourselves up and not have to rely on the government. That's why conflicts like Afghanastan brought down the soviet union, but we will be able to innovate out of our situation (regardless who started it.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 01:50PM by Atom.

And I don't walk to work, I run a buisness and I've replaced my vehicles with cars that get triple the gas milage (without using hybrids.)

Are you in the business of selling Amway?

No, I'm a liberal. The pyramid scams generally prey on republican peons where stupid is socially important.

See thread

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/832187/832395.html#msg-832395

http://www.salon.com/2012/02/17/billionaire_romney_donor_uses_threats_to_silence_critics/singleton/

Frank VanderSloot is an Idaho billionaire and the CEO of Melaleuca, Inc., a controversial billion-dollar-a-year company which peddles dietary supplements and cleaning products; back in 2004, Forbes, echoing complaints to government agencies, described the company as “a pyramid selling organization."

If you sell Amway, aren't you working for them? I started my buisness from scratch and invented the market. Beep beep.

And I build shit that I sell, no paper pushing here.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 02:06PM by Atom.

Ahh, the self employed internet success story.

I made my first million buying and selling penny stocks and bitcoins.

The premis of the argument that oil companies don't want alternative fuels is wrong.

The Oil companies know that fossil fuesl are in finite supply. Do you really think they are just going to keep drilling and producing oil until the last drop, shut down and let the 100's of billions of investment waste away the very next day?

I think you answerd your own question. oil companies know that there is plenty of oil out there.

Certainly enough for the next century or two.

Or

Look a t Boone and natural gas.

Hay Zeus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The premis of the argument that oil companies
> don't want alternative fuels is wrong.
>
> The Oil companies know that fossil fuesl are in
> finite supply. Do you really think they are just
> going to keep drilling and producing oil until the
> last drop, shut down and let the 100's of billions
> of investment waste away the very next day?

Sorry Hay Zeus but almost being right isn't the same as being right.

The oil companies are all for alternative fuels as long as THEY control the alternatives.

They also know that there is more than enough oil on the planet to carry us into the age of "no oil usage at all."

When they can't hold finite numbers over our head, so they hold us hostage with delivery problems and storms and union problems.

1982 - 301 oil refineries producing 17.9 million barrels a day

2008 - 149 oil refineries producing 17.4 million barrels a day

What's wrong with this picture?

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> When they can't hold finite numbers over our head,
> so they hold us hostage with delivery problems and
> storms and union problems.
>
> 1982 - 301 oil refineries producing 17.9 million
> barrels a day
>
> 2008 - 149 oil refineries producing 17.4 million
> barrels a day
>
> What's wrong with this picture?


Tell us Vexx. What's wrong with that picture?

1900 - 2800 craftsmen produce 550,000 saddles a year
2012 - 4 factories produce 1.2 million saddles a year

Lies, damn lies and statistics. Without context, your numbers mean nothing

Hay Zeus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm begining to notice a pattern with all these
> statistics...after all the media fanfare they seem
> to be readjusted a few weeks later and the number
> is never as good as first reported.

They do that repeatedly with jobless claims. Somebody did an analysis of the revisions and found that almost all (99%) of prior weeks' figures were subjected to upward revisions, many of which resulted in the current week appearing to be an improvement.

The other thing the Bush and Obama administrations did was applying unfavorable revisions to the prior three years' figures for GDP, inflation, and employment to provide an easier benchmark for comparisons. We see it happened once again with the NAR's revisions of housing sales for the last four years. They lopped off 400K units from the annual resales for 2006-2011.

I guess the BLS has been outsourced to China.

@ Vexxxed

give me more, i could draw a few conclusions from those stats.

1)As older refineries shut down, remaining ones increased capacity and/or efficiency

2)Gas production remained stangnant because any increase consumption was offset by more greater fuel efficiency. i.e. More drivers using less gas



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 05:07PM by Hay Zeus.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glad you pointed out food. Since we spend less of
> our income on food than any socioty throughout the
> history of time.
>
> Oil is controlled by cartels, much like diamonds.
> The only difference is, that oil is a non
> disposable good. Things have been dying on this
> planet for billions of years, there's plenty of
> oil to burn. Our anti-trust laws were written to
> combat american oil monopolies.
>
> Oil prices are intrinsic to everything in our
> economy.
>
> The debt argument is rediculous. You are a pawn.
> One reason for a government is to buck trends.
> You spend in a recession you save when things are
> good. Hopefully, whoever is in charge during our
> next peak will learn from all the treasure Bush
> wasted.
>
> Thankfully, our democratic socioty allows people
> to innovate so Americans can pull ourselves up and
> not have to rely on the government. That's why
> conflicts like Afghanastan brought down the soviet
> union, but we will be able to innovate out of our
> situation (regardless who started it.)

Curious why you think the debt argument is bunk.

In addition to oil being controlled by cartel's, don't forget how the price is being brought up by speculators in the market. Same can be said for gold. Unfortunately while I do see a gold bubble I don't see an oil bubble UNTIL major fuel alternatives take hold.

Lest anyone thinks otherwise with gold, keep in mind that price is being buoyed by people sitting on the sidelines in terms of investments and therefore parking their money in gold.

I think the debt argument is bunk because of the productivity potential of the American public. Plus our giant land mass and wealth of commodities.

Spending is always a concern, but it's less of a concern during a recession because interest is low so money is cheap. Build your infrastructure now because it costs less.

The flip side is: you must pay down the dept when the economy is chugging along. The current debt argument was invented by Dick Armey and his freedom coalition to create a do nothing government to get Obama out of office.

My favorite is when oil execs get on news outlets and predict astronomical gas prices.

Asshats

Poppin' Jay Fox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > When they can't hold finite numbers over our
> head,
> > so they hold us hostage with delivery problems
> and
> > storms and union problems.
> >
> > 1982 - 301 oil refineries producing 17.9
> million
> > barrels a day
> >
> > 2008 - 149 oil refineries producing 17.4
> million
> > barrels a day
> >
> > What's wrong with this picture?
>
>
> Tell us Vexx. What's wrong with that picture?
>
> 1900 - 2800 craftsmen produce 550,000 saddles a
> year
> 2012 - 4 factories produce 1.2 million saddles a
> year
>
> Lies, damn lies and statistics. Without context,
> your numbers mean nothing

The context would be life itself.

2005 Katrina took a few of those refineries off line. Prices went through the roof and we ate it up because of........Katrina. I remember at the time Nancy Pelosi stating that even IF Congress were to allow the nine new refineries, they'd never be online in time to make up the difference.

Congress doesn't close refineries. Big oil does under the guise of "over production." When was the last time you saw gas prices drop to nothing due to overproduction? When Detroit does this, they all but give the cars away and move forward. Microsoft, Coleman camping supplies or even Safeway....they got too much of something, they lower the prices.

Not big oil. They find a way to hold prices until they can create a "crisis" which involves raising them.

When was the last time you saw a "Sale" sign at a gas station?

One more thing for you to ponder if you will.......Detroit or DC Comics...doesn't matter, announces their 2013 line will cost an extra $___.

Oil going from Iran to China gets held up and EXXON (not the speculators) raises the price at the pump THAT instant. When a new oil field is found or refining gets back up to 100% they do not roll the price back.

If the president and Congress were really serious about any of this, the Bell System break up would like like a blip on the map compared to big oil going down in a million pieces. But that wont happen because too many in Congress get too much money from big oil.

I'm not trying to defend big Oil, sure some collusion must exist on some level but not the grand scale you're espousing.

Here is the problem i have with this thinking, is that at the service station level of operation, its all about volume. The pool margins are thin 2-3cents on reg up to 10cents prem per gallon. Those stations sign contracts requiring them to move "X" amount of gallons a month. Whether they sell it or not, they're on the hook for the next shipment. So the pressure is on for those service stations to keep the volume going. If not they are out of business. Having the prices rises this much so quickly will collapse that model.

The only thing big oil does is extract, refine, and deliver to the distributors. The distributors still have to make money and so does the service station owner. If gas is not moving, the latter two are not making money

IMO I agree Congress doesn't close refineries but neither does Big Oil, the EPA does through the regulations it issues (though its unconstitutional) .

and EPA is at it again with closing coal power plants.

"If the president and Congress were really serious about any of this, the Bell System break up would like like a blip on the map compared to big oil going down in a million pieces. But that wont happen because too many in Congress get too much money from big oil."

I totally agree,,,if we had a congress that actually cared about the people who vote them into office, they would be threatening to nationalize or force a co-op on the oil industry in the interest of national security,,,

Our military, paid for with tax payer dollars, has a lot of influence in the global oil market via the implied threat it provides,,,

Iraq causing problems in Kuwait? Not for long,,,
Iran blocking oil passage with their bullshit navy? Not for long,,,

We, the American taxpayer, do more to stabalize global oil prices for our friends AND ENEMIES than any nation on earth, and our own oil companies look to exploit us at every turn,,,

Hay Zeus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMO I agree Congress doesn't close refineries but
> neither does Big Oil, the EPA does through the
> regulations it issues (though its
> unconstitutional) .
>
> and EPA is at it again with closing coal power
> plants.

You'll just have to trust that I have more than enough reason to despise the EPA and while they have had some issues with some refineries......they didn't close the majority of them down. Even if they put their stamp of approval on it, the refinery owner let those particular operations fall into such bad shape that there was no choice. When you run a business (and that is what a refinery is) that is so vital to the world and in such demand, why would you let that happen?

Unless you were bought out by big oil and shut down to manipulate production numbers.

Yet.........Congress never looks into that. Congress never asks why the prices are going up. They just scramble around and look for tax breaks so we can all keep pumping dollars into big oil. Congress doesn't give a shit about the cost of gas. They can do some manipulation of their own by subsidizing more farmers and making food just a bit cheaper so our household budgets don't really change at the bottom line, just how much we're spending on what.

Follow the money.........always follow the money.

The biggest favor you can do yourself is to stop believing we are living under the protections of the US Constitution. We are living under Congressional interpretation of the Constitution as supported by the Supreme Court.

And no one is watching.

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You'll just have to trust that I have more than
> enough reason to despise the EPA and while they
> have had some issues with some
> refineries......they didn't close the majority of
> them down. Even if they put their stamp of
> approval on it, the refinery owner let those
> particular operations fall into such bad shape
> that there was no choice. When you run a business
> (and that is what a refinery is) that is so vital
> to the world and in such demand, why would you let
> that happen?

Any sources you can link me to or is this from experience?


> Unless you were bought out by big oil and shut
> down to manipulate production numbers.

Interesting

> Yet.........Congress never looks into that.
> Congress never asks why the prices are going up.
> They just scramble around and look for tax breaks
> so we can all keep pumping dollars into big oil.
> Congress doesn't give a shit about the cost of
> gas. They can do some manipulation of their own
> by subsidizing more farmers and making food just a
> bit cheaper so our household budgets don't really
> change at the bottom line, just how much we're
> spending on what.
>
> Follow the money.........always follow the money.
>
> The biggest favor you can do yourself is to stop
> believing we are living under the protections of
> the US Constitution. We are living under
> Congressional interpretation of the Constitution
> as supported by the Supreme Court.
>
> And no one is watching.

No doubt about that, thats because most people are ignorant of Constitution, even though its in fairly simple plain english.

But maybe if more people pointed out what is allowed (more importantly what isn't allowed) by the constitution they would understand. Admittedly, wishful thinking.

The Oil company exec's come up with a different excuse for raising the price every month. It's the same old story. When people start buying fuel efficient and alternative fuel cars they drop the price of gas. Once those cars drop out then the oil companies go back to jacking the prices back up.

It's not so much the oil companies fault. It the consumers that fail to see how big oil is manipulating the prices. Look at all the fuel grubbing cars that people are still buying and then listen to all of them bitch about high gas prices.