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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
RomneyCare 2012 Version
()
Date: June 12, 2012 11:31AM
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/23/nation/la-na-romney-healthcare-20120423
WASHINGTON — As he pushes to "repeal and replace" President Obama's healthcare law, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney has turned to proposals that could alter the way hundreds of millions of Americans get their medical insurance.
In public, Romney has only sketched the outlines of a plan, and aides have declined to answer questions about the details. But his public statements and interviews with advisors make clear that Romney has embraced a strategy that in crucial ways is more revolutionary — and potentially more disruptive — than the law Obama signed two years ago.
WASHINGTON — As he pushes to "repeal and replace" President Obama's healthcare law, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney has turned to proposals that could alter the way hundreds of millions of Americans get their medical insurance.
In public, Romney has only sketched the outlines of a plan, and aides have declined to answer questions about the details. But his public statements and interviews with advisors make clear that Romney has embraced a strategy that in crucial ways is more revolutionary — and potentially more disruptive — than the law Obama signed two years ago.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
breakdown
()
Date: June 12, 2012 11:46AM
Obama Care: Insurance companies get rich
Romney Care: Big Pharma get rich.
YouCare: Funeral Directors get rich.
Romney Care: Big Pharma get rich.
YouCare: Funeral Directors get rich.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Medicare
()
Date: June 12, 2012 12:49PM
I think Romney's plan is really more about privatizing social security and medicare. I don't think it has a snowballs chance in hell and he would be an idiot to even suggest it. Of course he's Romney so nothing surprises.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
RomneyCare 2012 Version
()
Date: June 12, 2012 12:56PM
Block grant Medicaid and other payments to states
Limit federal standards and requirements on both private insurance and Medicaid coverage
Ensure flexibility to help the uninsured, including public-private partnerships, exchanges, and subsidies
Ensure flexibility to help the chronically ill, including high-risk pools, reinsurance, and risk adjustment
Offer innovation grants to explore non-litigation alternatives to dispute resolution
Promote Free Markets and Fair Competition
Competition drives improvements in efficiency and effectiveness, offering consumers higher quality goods and services at lower cost. It can have the same effect in the health care system, if given the chance to work.
Cap non-economic damages in medical malpractice lawsuits
Empower individuals and small businesses to form purchasing pools
Prevent discrimination against individuals with pre-existing conditions
who maintain continuous coverage
Facilitate IT interoperability
Empower Consumer Choice
For markets to work, consumers must have the information and the power to make decisions about their own care. Placing the patient at the center of the process will drive quality up and cost down while ensuring that services are designed to provide what Americans actually want.
End tax discrimination against the individual purchase of insurance
Allow consumers to purchase insurance across state lines
Unshackle HSAs by allowing funds to be used for insurance premiums
Promote "co-insurance" products
Promote alternatives to "fee for service"
Encourage "Consumer Reports"-type ratings of alternative insurance plans
Limit federal standards and requirements on both private insurance and Medicaid coverage
Ensure flexibility to help the uninsured, including public-private partnerships, exchanges, and subsidies
Ensure flexibility to help the chronically ill, including high-risk pools, reinsurance, and risk adjustment
Offer innovation grants to explore non-litigation alternatives to dispute resolution
Promote Free Markets and Fair Competition
Competition drives improvements in efficiency and effectiveness, offering consumers higher quality goods and services at lower cost. It can have the same effect in the health care system, if given the chance to work.
Cap non-economic damages in medical malpractice lawsuits
Empower individuals and small businesses to form purchasing pools
Prevent discrimination against individuals with pre-existing conditions
who maintain continuous coverage
Facilitate IT interoperability
Empower Consumer Choice
For markets to work, consumers must have the information and the power to make decisions about their own care. Placing the patient at the center of the process will drive quality up and cost down while ensuring that services are designed to provide what Americans actually want.
End tax discrimination against the individual purchase of insurance
Allow consumers to purchase insurance across state lines
Unshackle HSAs by allowing funds to be used for insurance premiums
Promote "co-insurance" products
Promote alternatives to "fee for service"
Encourage "Consumer Reports"-type ratings of alternative insurance plans
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Tipsy O'Neil
()
Date: June 12, 2012 12:59PM
Medicare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Romney's plan is really more about
> privatizing social security and medicare. I don't
> think it has a snowballs chance in hell and he
> would be an idiot to even suggest it. Of course
> he's Romney so nothing surprises.
I like Obama's plan better - Avoid at all cost any mention of the hard choices that are coming like it or not until after the election. In the meantime, as a distraction point to rich folks as the problem and promote envy politics.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Romney's plan is really more about
> privatizing social security and medicare. I don't
> think it has a snowballs chance in hell and he
> would be an idiot to even suggest it. Of course
> he's Romney so nothing surprises.
I like Obama's plan better - Avoid at all cost any mention of the hard choices that are coming like it or not until after the election. In the meantime, as a distraction point to rich folks as the problem and promote envy politics.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
OBlomney
()
Date: June 13, 2012 09:35AM
Romney is an idiot. Releasing his healthcare plan now is pure poison.
What's worse is Romney is now saying that he will keep parts of Obamacare.
WTF is Romney thinking???? Just a month ago Romney said he would completely repeal Obamacare!
I do like the fact that states are now delegated to distribute healthcare, and insurance can be bought over state lines, but still why is tax money being used to pay for healthcare of the poor?
What's worse is Romney is now saying that he will keep parts of Obamacare.
WTF is Romney thinking???? Just a month ago Romney said he would completely repeal Obamacare!
I do like the fact that states are now delegated to distribute healthcare, and insurance can be bought over state lines, but still why is tax money being used to pay for healthcare of the poor?
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
OBlomneyCare
()
Date: June 13, 2012 11:09AM
More on Romney's healthcare plans
June 13 (Bloomberg) -- Mitt Romney pledged to replace the U.S. health-care overhaul with a plan relying on private markets to provide “access to good health care” for every American, as he revived attacks on President Barack Obama’s signature achievement that the U.S. Supreme Court is preparing to rule on.
The presumptive Republican presidential nominee told small- business owners in Orlando, Florida, that he would implement policies, including tax breaks, aimed at helping the private market care for the uninsured and those with preexisting medical conditions.
“Free enterprise is the way America works,” Romney told the group gathered in the warehouse of Con Air Industries, which makes air filters. “We need to apply that to health care.”
The Supreme Court is expected to issue a decision on the Affordable Care Act by the end of the month, ruling on a law that would expand insurance to at least 30 million people and transform an industry that accounts for 18 percent of the U.S. economy.
June 13 (Bloomberg) -- Mitt Romney pledged to replace the U.S. health-care overhaul with a plan relying on private markets to provide “access to good health care” for every American, as he revived attacks on President Barack Obama’s signature achievement that the U.S. Supreme Court is preparing to rule on.
The presumptive Republican presidential nominee told small- business owners in Orlando, Florida, that he would implement policies, including tax breaks, aimed at helping the private market care for the uninsured and those with preexisting medical conditions.
“Free enterprise is the way America works,” Romney told the group gathered in the warehouse of Con Air Industries, which makes air filters. “We need to apply that to health care.”
The Supreme Court is expected to issue a decision on the Affordable Care Act by the end of the month, ruling on a law that would expand insurance to at least 30 million people and transform an industry that accounts for 18 percent of the U.S. economy.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: June 13, 2012 12:23PM
There are a variety of issues with a "free market" approach to health care.
First, it's not like you have three hospitals across from each other like Burger King, McDonald's and Wendy's. Most communities have one hospital (if they are lucky), so it's not like you can compare prices and save.
Second, drug companies often have a monopoly on the drugs they produce. Until a drug company loses its rights to produce a drug exclusively, they can pretty much name their price. Insurance will either pay for it or refuse to pay for it (and patients will have to cover the costs themselves). There's really nothing free market about that.
Third, do you really want to put your life in the hands of the cheapest doctor you can find?
Fourth, insurance companies are regulated at the state level, not nationally, so they basically collude on what territories to operate in. Changing that would require a Federal mandate and oversight. Do you see insurance companies or Republicans going for that?
Finally, there is a certain moral imperative about health care. Doctor's can't refuse treatment. Hospitals can't refuse treatment. It's not like you are making a consumer choice to get that leg mended or cancer treated. The "opportunity cost" is your life, in many cases.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
First, it's not like you have three hospitals across from each other like Burger King, McDonald's and Wendy's. Most communities have one hospital (if they are lucky), so it's not like you can compare prices and save.
Second, drug companies often have a monopoly on the drugs they produce. Until a drug company loses its rights to produce a drug exclusively, they can pretty much name their price. Insurance will either pay for it or refuse to pay for it (and patients will have to cover the costs themselves). There's really nothing free market about that.
Third, do you really want to put your life in the hands of the cheapest doctor you can find?
Fourth, insurance companies are regulated at the state level, not nationally, so they basically collude on what territories to operate in. Changing that would require a Federal mandate and oversight. Do you see insurance companies or Republicans going for that?
Finally, there is a certain moral imperative about health care. Doctor's can't refuse treatment. Hospitals can't refuse treatment. It's not like you are making a consumer choice to get that leg mended or cancer treated. The "opportunity cost" is your life, in many cases.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Sad but true
()
Date: June 13, 2012 01:14PM
"...why is tax money being used to pay for healthcare of the poor"
There is no way that poor people will be denied health care in this country - ever. They'll either get in the doctor's office or at the emergency room. Which do you think costs more?
Look at the recent example of vagirl (or whatever her name was). She wound up making at least three visits to the emergency room (with a CAT scan) for a throat infection - something that could have easily been taken care of in a doctor's office. $5,000 versus $500. That is your tax money at work (cause she ain't gonna pay for it). Give people like that access to basic medical care - and make them use it.
You're paying for it one way or the other.
There is no way that poor people will be denied health care in this country - ever. They'll either get in the doctor's office or at the emergency room. Which do you think costs more?
Look at the recent example of vagirl (or whatever her name was). She wound up making at least three visits to the emergency room (with a CAT scan) for a throat infection - something that could have easily been taken care of in a doctor's office. $5,000 versus $500. That is your tax money at work (cause she ain't gonna pay for it). Give people like that access to basic medical care - and make them use it.
You're paying for it one way or the other.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: June 13, 2012 01:19PM
Sad but true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "...why is tax money being used to pay for
> healthcare of the poor"
>
> There is no way that poor people will be denied
> health care in this country - ever. They'll either
> get in the doctor's office or at the emergency
> room. Which do you think costs more?
>
> Look at the recent example of vagirl (or whatever
> her name was). She wound up making at least three
> visits to the emergency room (with a CAT scan) for
> a throat infection - something that could have
> easily been taken care of in a doctor's office.
> $5,000 versus $500. That is your tax money at work
> (cause she ain't gonna pay for it). Give people
> like that access to basic medical care - and make
> them use it.
>
> You're paying for it one way or the other.
+1
I heard a doctor on a radio show this afternoon complaining that a physical examination is becoming a lost art. She says doctors in other countries are trained to spot things during a physical examination that U.S. doctors aren't. As a result, U.S. doctors order a lot more costly and unnecessary exams, like CTs, for patients who don't need them. This doctor also noted that there is a financial incentive to order all of these tests (talk about the free market) because doctors and hospitals make more in reimbursement from the insurance companies. Also, if you have money and are paying for the care yourself, expect to see all kinds of unnecessary exams ordered.
It's a big friggin' scam.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
-------------------------------------------------------
> "...why is tax money being used to pay for
> healthcare of the poor"
>
> There is no way that poor people will be denied
> health care in this country - ever. They'll either
> get in the doctor's office or at the emergency
> room. Which do you think costs more?
>
> Look at the recent example of vagirl (or whatever
> her name was). She wound up making at least three
> visits to the emergency room (with a CAT scan) for
> a throat infection - something that could have
> easily been taken care of in a doctor's office.
> $5,000 versus $500. That is your tax money at work
> (cause she ain't gonna pay for it). Give people
> like that access to basic medical care - and make
> them use it.
>
> You're paying for it one way or the other.
+1
I heard a doctor on a radio show this afternoon complaining that a physical examination is becoming a lost art. She says doctors in other countries are trained to spot things during a physical examination that U.S. doctors aren't. As a result, U.S. doctors order a lot more costly and unnecessary exams, like CTs, for patients who don't need them. This doctor also noted that there is a financial incentive to order all of these tests (talk about the free market) because doctors and hospitals make more in reimbursement from the insurance companies. Also, if you have money and are paying for the care yourself, expect to see all kinds of unnecessary exams ordered.
It's a big friggin' scam.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Swedt
()
Date: June 13, 2012 05:56PM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard a doctor on a radio show this afternoon
> complaining that a physical examination is
> becoming a lost art. She says doctors in other
> countries are trained to spot things during a
> physical examination that U.S. doctors aren't. As
> a result, U.S. doctors order a lot more costly and
> unnecessary exams, like CTs, for patients who
> don't need them. This doctor also noted that there
> is a financial incentive to order all of these
> tests (talk about the free market) because doctors
> and hospitals make more in reimbursement from the
> insurance companies. Also, if you have money and
> are paying for the care yourself, expect to see
> all kinds of unnecessary exams ordered.
>
> It's a big friggin' scam.
Yes, that's the American healthcare system. It is built on profit unlike other countries systems that based on government services.
The big problem is that people don't realize doctors are just looking to make profit so they think doctors are "just helping me." Nothing could be further from the truth.
I know several doctors and they openly admit that they get kickbacks from drug companies and for referring clients for more tests.
Why stop at one test when you can order 10 and get $2000 put in your back pocket as a kickback. Just for swiping a pen.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard a doctor on a radio show this afternoon
> complaining that a physical examination is
> becoming a lost art. She says doctors in other
> countries are trained to spot things during a
> physical examination that U.S. doctors aren't. As
> a result, U.S. doctors order a lot more costly and
> unnecessary exams, like CTs, for patients who
> don't need them. This doctor also noted that there
> is a financial incentive to order all of these
> tests (talk about the free market) because doctors
> and hospitals make more in reimbursement from the
> insurance companies. Also, if you have money and
> are paying for the care yourself, expect to see
> all kinds of unnecessary exams ordered.
>
> It's a big friggin' scam.
Yes, that's the American healthcare system. It is built on profit unlike other countries systems that based on government services.
The big problem is that people don't realize doctors are just looking to make profit so they think doctors are "just helping me." Nothing could be further from the truth.
I know several doctors and they openly admit that they get kickbacks from drug companies and for referring clients for more tests.
Why stop at one test when you can order 10 and get $2000 put in your back pocket as a kickback. Just for swiping a pen.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Fed Up
()
Date: June 13, 2012 07:26PM
I hate going to the doctor because every time I do they insist that I have a bunch of tests that I don't want to have. They also insist that I take drugs that I don't want to take. I should be able to make these decisions myself (after careful consideration of their recommendations).
Latest example...they insist that I have a Pap smear in order to get a referral for a routine mammogram. I've never had an abnormal Pap, and I don't need or want a Pap smear. But I can't get the mammogram without one.
Another thing - I have been taking several medications for years without a problem. But if I want to renew my prescriptions, I have to come in for a checkup.
BTW, have you noticed how routine CT scans and MRIs have become? Go to the Inova Fairfax PET/CT Imaging Center and the place will be packed. I had a situation with my son where the doctor ordered a CT scan. The scan showed a remotely possible abnormality not related to the issue in question. So he ordered another CT scan. That scan showed another remotely possible abnormality, also not related. So he ordered an MRI. Turns out both problems were artifacts or harmless, and no cause was found for the original issue.
This kind of unneccessary insistence on tests and drugs is bankrupting this country.
Latest example...they insist that I have a Pap smear in order to get a referral for a routine mammogram. I've never had an abnormal Pap, and I don't need or want a Pap smear. But I can't get the mammogram without one.
Another thing - I have been taking several medications for years without a problem. But if I want to renew my prescriptions, I have to come in for a checkup.
BTW, have you noticed how routine CT scans and MRIs have become? Go to the Inova Fairfax PET/CT Imaging Center and the place will be packed. I had a situation with my son where the doctor ordered a CT scan. The scan showed a remotely possible abnormality not related to the issue in question. So he ordered another CT scan. That scan showed another remotely possible abnormality, also not related. So he ordered an MRI. Turns out both problems were artifacts or harmless, and no cause was found for the original issue.
This kind of unneccessary insistence on tests and drugs is bankrupting this country.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Pap Smear
()
Date: June 14, 2012 09:28AM
I like some of the Canadian and British healthcare system plans. Still you can beat the Denmark and Holland. Those two countries have amazing plans.
I agree that the Romney plan assumes a "free market" place. As we all know the American market place is not a "free market place" model because regulation are place for high standards such as food and drugs.
Certainly every American deserves protection from viruses and health issues. We don't kill terrorist so Americans can die early with health issues.
I agree that the Romney plan assumes a "free market" place. As we all know the American market place is not a "free market place" model because regulation are place for high standards such as food and drugs.
Certainly every American deserves protection from viruses and health issues. We don't kill terrorist so Americans can die early with health issues.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Dr. Killdare
()
Date: June 14, 2012 12:34PM
Sad but true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "...why is tax money being used to pay for
> healthcare of the poor"
>
> There is no way that poor people will be denied
> health care in this country - ever. They'll either
> get in the doctor's office or at the emergency
> room. Which do you think costs more?
>
> Look at the recent example of vagirl (or whatever
> her name was). She wound up making at least three
> visits to the emergency room (with a CAT scan) for
> a throat infection - something that could have
> easily been taken care of in a doctor's office.
> $5,000 versus $500. That is your tax money at work
> (cause she ain't gonna pay for it). Give people
> like that access to basic medical care - and make
> them use it.
>
> You're paying for it one way or the other.
The problem is that all studies show that people continue to use emergency rooms even when they have other options and insurance. You won't fix that by covering everyone and subsidizing insurance. You also won't fix the real root of the problem that nobody has any real good ideas how to fix - dramatically rising health care costs regardless how it's paid for.
-------------------------------------------------------
> "...why is tax money being used to pay for
> healthcare of the poor"
>
> There is no way that poor people will be denied
> health care in this country - ever. They'll either
> get in the doctor's office or at the emergency
> room. Which do you think costs more?
>
> Look at the recent example of vagirl (or whatever
> her name was). She wound up making at least three
> visits to the emergency room (with a CAT scan) for
> a throat infection - something that could have
> easily been taken care of in a doctor's office.
> $5,000 versus $500. That is your tax money at work
> (cause she ain't gonna pay for it). Give people
> like that access to basic medical care - and make
> them use it.
>
> You're paying for it one way or the other.
The problem is that all studies show that people continue to use emergency rooms even when they have other options and insurance. You won't fix that by covering everyone and subsidizing insurance. You also won't fix the real root of the problem that nobody has any real good ideas how to fix - dramatically rising health care costs regardless how it's paid for.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Doctor ED
()
Date: June 15, 2012 01:00PM
I'd rather see everybody in the US covered. Let's face it, the biggest killer of Americans is poor healthcare. Plus I won't have to waste time with collection agencies getting my bills paid.
I like the Obama plan better, but the new Romney care has some valid points.
I like the Obama plan better, but the new Romney care has some valid points.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Vexxxed
()
Date: June 15, 2012 05:37PM
Doctor ED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd rather see everybody in the US covered. Let's
> face it, the biggest killer of Americans is poor
> healthcare. Plus I won't have to waste time with
> collection agencies getting my bills paid.
>
> I like the Obama plan better, but the new Romney
> care has some valid points.
Sorry, "Doc"..........YOU are the biggest killer in the US.
If you are so all about mankind and stuff........why do you bill your patients?
And then send in collection agencies to give them heart attacks when their homes are seized?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd rather see everybody in the US covered. Let's
> face it, the biggest killer of Americans is poor
> healthcare. Plus I won't have to waste time with
> collection agencies getting my bills paid.
>
> I like the Obama plan better, but the new Romney
> care has some valid points.
Sorry, "Doc"..........YOU are the biggest killer in the US.
If you are so all about mankind and stuff........why do you bill your patients?
And then send in collection agencies to give them heart attacks when their homes are seized?
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Doctor, Doctor
()
Date: July 09, 2012 09:21AM
Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doctor ED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd rather see everybody in the US covered.
> Let's
> > face it, the biggest killer of Americans is
> poor
> > healthcare. Plus I won't have to waste time
> with
> > collection agencies getting my bills paid.
> >
> > I like the Obama plan better, but the new
> Romney
> > care has some valid points.
>
>
> Sorry, "Doc"..........YOU are the biggest killer
> in the US.
>
> If you are so all about mankind and
> stuff........why do you bill your patients?
>
> And then send in collection agencies to give them
> heart attacks when their homes are seized?
The biggest killer of Americans by far is cancer. Preventable by regular check ups, no smoking, reduced alcohol consumption, eating right and exercise.
All Americans should be required to have healthcare. The American healthcare system is a disgrace and laughed at around the world. That fact is sad.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doctor ED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd rather see everybody in the US covered.
> Let's
> > face it, the biggest killer of Americans is
> poor
> > healthcare. Plus I won't have to waste time
> with
> > collection agencies getting my bills paid.
> >
> > I like the Obama plan better, but the new
> Romney
> > care has some valid points.
>
>
> Sorry, "Doc"..........YOU are the biggest killer
> in the US.
>
> If you are so all about mankind and
> stuff........why do you bill your patients?
>
> And then send in collection agencies to give them
> heart attacks when their homes are seized?
The biggest killer of Americans by far is cancer. Preventable by regular check ups, no smoking, reduced alcohol consumption, eating right and exercise.
All Americans should be required to have healthcare. The American healthcare system is a disgrace and laughed at around the world. That fact is sad.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
WingNut
()
Date: July 09, 2012 09:24AM
Doctor, Doctor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doctor ED Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I'd rather see everybody in the US covered.
> > Let's
> > > face it, the biggest killer of Americans is
> > poor
> > > healthcare. Plus I won't have to waste time
> > with
> > > collection agencies getting my bills paid.
> > >
> > > I like the Obama plan better, but the new
> > Romney
> > > care has some valid points.
> >
> >
> > Sorry, "Doc"..........YOU are the biggest
> killer
> > in the US.
> >
> > If you are so all about mankind and
> > stuff........why do you bill your patients?
> >
> > And then send in collection agencies to give
> them
> > heart attacks when their homes are seized?
>
> The biggest killer of Americans by far is cancer.
> Preventable by regular check ups, no smoking,
> reduced alcohol consumption, eating right and
> exercise.
>
> All Americans should be required to have
> healthcare. The American healthcare system is a
> disgrace and laughed at around the world. That
> fact is sad.
Why make hard working taxpayers with healthy lifestyles subsidize our lardass neighbors who live on a diet of McDonalds and Malrboros and refuse to exercise?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doctor ED Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I'd rather see everybody in the US covered.
> > Let's
> > > face it, the biggest killer of Americans is
> > poor
> > > healthcare. Plus I won't have to waste time
> > with
> > > collection agencies getting my bills paid.
> > >
> > > I like the Obama plan better, but the new
> > Romney
> > > care has some valid points.
> >
> >
> > Sorry, "Doc"..........YOU are the biggest
> killer
> > in the US.
> >
> > If you are so all about mankind and
> > stuff........why do you bill your patients?
> >
> > And then send in collection agencies to give
> them
> > heart attacks when their homes are seized?
>
> The biggest killer of Americans by far is cancer.
> Preventable by regular check ups, no smoking,
> reduced alcohol consumption, eating right and
> exercise.
>
> All Americans should be required to have
> healthcare. The American healthcare system is a
> disgrace and laughed at around the world. That
> fact is sad.
Why make hard working taxpayers with healthy lifestyles subsidize our lardass neighbors who live on a diet of McDonalds and Malrboros and refuse to exercise?
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Lester
()
Date: July 09, 2012 10:29AM
Under Ryancare, which this article calls Romney's plan, group insurance plans would be gone. Very inefficient way to do business by requiring everyone to buy their own plans. Also, more people deemed bad insurance risks would be forced out of group plans and presumably lose coverage by being priced out.
There's no free lunch, except for the insurance companies.
There's no free lunch, except for the insurance companies.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
History provides lesson
()
Date: July 09, 2012 10:32AM
Tipsy O'Neil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Medicare Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think Romney's plan is really more about
> > privatizing social security and medicare. I
> don't
> > think it has a snowballs chance in hell and he
> > would be an idiot to even suggest it. Of
> course
> > he's Romney so nothing surprises.
>
> I like Obama's plan better - Avoid at all cost any
> mention of the hard choices that are coming like
> it or not until after the election. In the
> meantime, as a distraction point to rich folks as
> the problem and promote envy politics.
Romney/Ryan avoids hard choices until 2012 when the voucher caps kick in. The growth caps will never kick in. If you know anything about the explosive growth of government spending under outsourcing, this is just another outsourcing debacle about to occur.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Medicare Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think Romney's plan is really more about
> > privatizing social security and medicare. I
> don't
> > think it has a snowballs chance in hell and he
> > would be an idiot to even suggest it. Of
> course
> > he's Romney so nothing surprises.
>
> I like Obama's plan better - Avoid at all cost any
> mention of the hard choices that are coming like
> it or not until after the election. In the
> meantime, as a distraction point to rich folks as
> the problem and promote envy politics.
Romney/Ryan avoids hard choices until 2012 when the voucher caps kick in. The growth caps will never kick in. If you know anything about the explosive growth of government spending under outsourcing, this is just another outsourcing debacle about to occur.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
RomneyCare
()
Date: July 09, 2012 11:35AM
WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doctor, Doctor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vexxxed Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Doctor ED Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I'd rather see everybody in the US covered.
>
> > > Let's
> > > > face it, the biggest killer of Americans is
> > > poor
> > > > healthcare. Plus I won't have to waste
> time
> > > with
> > > > collection agencies getting my bills paid.
> > > >
> > > > I like the Obama plan better, but the new
> > > Romney
> > > > care has some valid points.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry, "Doc"..........YOU are the biggest
> > killer
> > > in the US.
> > >
> > > If you are so all about mankind and
> > > stuff........why do you bill your patients?
> > >
> > > And then send in collection agencies to give
> > them
> > > heart attacks when their homes are seized?
> >
> > The biggest killer of Americans by far is
> cancer.
> > Preventable by regular check ups, no smoking,
> > reduced alcohol consumption, eating right and
> > exercise.
> >
> > All Americans should be required to have
> > healthcare. The American healthcare system is
> a
> > disgrace and laughed at around the world. That
> > fact is sad.
>
> Why make hard working taxpayers with healthy
> lifestyles subsidize our lardass neighbors who
> live on a diet of McDonalds and Malrboros and
> refuse to exercise?
How is forcing the poor to pay for mandated healthcare insurance giving them a free ride?
Republicans added the mandate in the first place to try and sink the bill. Democrats agreed.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doctor, Doctor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vexxxed Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Doctor ED Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I'd rather see everybody in the US covered.
>
> > > Let's
> > > > face it, the biggest killer of Americans is
> > > poor
> > > > healthcare. Plus I won't have to waste
> time
> > > with
> > > > collection agencies getting my bills paid.
> > > >
> > > > I like the Obama plan better, but the new
> > > Romney
> > > > care has some valid points.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry, "Doc"..........YOU are the biggest
> > killer
> > > in the US.
> > >
> > > If you are so all about mankind and
> > > stuff........why do you bill your patients?
> > >
> > > And then send in collection agencies to give
> > them
> > > heart attacks when their homes are seized?
> >
> > The biggest killer of Americans by far is
> cancer.
> > Preventable by regular check ups, no smoking,
> > reduced alcohol consumption, eating right and
> > exercise.
> >
> > All Americans should be required to have
> > healthcare. The American healthcare system is
> a
> > disgrace and laughed at around the world. That
> > fact is sad.
>
> Why make hard working taxpayers with healthy
> lifestyles subsidize our lardass neighbors who
> live on a diet of McDonalds and Malrboros and
> refuse to exercise?
How is forcing the poor to pay for mandated healthcare insurance giving them a free ride?
Republicans added the mandate in the first place to try and sink the bill. Democrats agreed.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Pesky Details
()
Date: July 09, 2012 11:47AM
RomneyCare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> How is forcing the poor to pay for mandated
> healthcare insurance giving them a free ride?
>
> Republicans added the mandate in the first place
> to try and sink the bill. Democrats agreed.
You're forgetting the minor detail that these "forced" payments are completely subsidized for the poor by increased cots to other taxpayers, i.e., a free ride.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> How is forcing the poor to pay for mandated
> healthcare insurance giving them a free ride?
>
> Republicans added the mandate in the first place
> to try and sink the bill. Democrats agreed.
You're forgetting the minor detail that these "forced" payments are completely subsidized for the poor by increased cots to other taxpayers, i.e., a free ride.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Ed Realtor
()
Date: July 09, 2012 12:14PM
Pesky Details Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RomneyCare Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > How is forcing the poor to pay for mandated
> > healthcare insurance giving them a free ride?
> >
> > Republicans added the mandate in the first
> place
> > to try and sink the bill. Democrats agreed.
>
>
> You're forgetting the minor detail that these
> "forced" payments are completely subsidized for
> the poor by increased cots to other taxpayers,
> i.e., a free ride.
Oh you mean out of work Americans that can't find jobs and are using up their 3 years of lifetime US welfare.
-------------------------------------------------------
> RomneyCare Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > How is forcing the poor to pay for mandated
> > healthcare insurance giving them a free ride?
> >
> > Republicans added the mandate in the first
> place
> > to try and sink the bill. Democrats agreed.
>
>
> You're forgetting the minor detail that these
> "forced" payments are completely subsidized for
> the poor by increased cots to other taxpayers,
> i.e., a free ride.
Oh you mean out of work Americans that can't find jobs and are using up their 3 years of lifetime US welfare.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
almost everyone is on some kind of welfare.
()
Date: July 09, 2012 12:20PM
Or the realtors who are getting a lifetime of subsidies from the government in the last five years. 3% mortgage rates. homebuyer tax credits. subprime FHA loans. state homebuyer downpayment grants. banks and GSEs holding back housing inventory. Fannie Mae bailouts.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Greed/Max Realty
()
Date: July 09, 2012 01:27PM
almost everyone is on some kind of welfare. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or the realtors who are getting a lifetime of
> subsidies from the government in the last five
> years. 3% mortgage rates. homebuyer tax credits.
> subprime FHA loans. state homebuyer downpayment
> grants. banks and GSEs holding back housing
> inventory. Fannie Mae bailouts.
And that's after being one of the primary groups responsible for the root of the problem to begin with.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or the realtors who are getting a lifetime of
> subsidies from the government in the last five
> years. 3% mortgage rates. homebuyer tax credits.
> subprime FHA loans. state homebuyer downpayment
> grants. banks and GSEs holding back housing
> inventory. Fannie Mae bailouts.
And that's after being one of the primary groups responsible for the root of the problem to begin with.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Freedom For All
()
Date: July 10, 2012 12:06PM
The problem with Romney's "new" healthcare plan is it still requires the individual mandate just at a state level. The issue is Americans shouldn't be told by the government that they need to pay for a service.
I still don't think every resident in VA should be forced to buy car insurance.
I still don't think every resident in VA should be forced to buy car insurance.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Freedom from one
()
Date: July 10, 2012 12:14PM
If they're going to pay a penalty, it should go towards a universal major medical coverage so the system and the individual is protected in the event they require emergency services. Impose tighter restrictions on emergency admission so it's not abused.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Dr Yes
()
Date: July 10, 2012 12:51PM
I like how ObamaCare deals with pre-existing, rate scamming and coverage dropping.
There should be options for Americans that want to pay for healthcare but have been dropped since they reached a limit or acquired some cancer. Insurance companies shouldn't just say "Dropped Because We Have to Pay to Much for You."
There should be options for Americans that want to pay for healthcare but have been dropped since they reached a limit or acquired some cancer. Insurance companies shouldn't just say "Dropped Because We Have to Pay to Much for You."
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Ron Paul 2012
()
Date: July 12, 2012 12:07PM
Medicare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Of course
> he's Romney so nothing surprises.
+1,You said a lot there!
-------------------------------------------------------
Of course
> he's Romney so nothing surprises.
+1,You said a lot there!
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Mary Jane 2
()
Date: July 23, 2012 09:59AM
The issue is how much the State has to pay into the program vs federal.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
res
()
Date: July 24, 2012 09:05PM
Wow, thats a crazy plan. So, Romney wants the Government to shoulder the cost through tax breaks? This would cost A LOT. Think about it, right now Obama's plan, according to the CBO, will save money.
OTOH, the Romney plan means that instead of insurance premiums being shared by employees and their employers, the Government will now subsidize it through tax breaks. Where's the money going to come from for all those breaks? Isn't this just Big Government (a term the GOP use to scare people) being directly responsible for paying for peoples insurance?
OTOH, the Romney plan means that instead of insurance premiums being shared by employees and their employers, the Government will now subsidize it through tax breaks. Where's the money going to come from for all those breaks? Isn't this just Big Government (a term the GOP use to scare people) being directly responsible for paying for peoples insurance?
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Both fail
()
Date: July 24, 2012 10:11PM
res Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, thats a crazy plan. So, Romney wants the
> Government to shoulder the cost through tax
> breaks? This would cost A LOT. Think about it,
> right now Obama's plan, according to the CBO, will
> save money.
>
> OTOH, the Romney plan means that instead of
> insurance premiums being shared by employees and
> their employers, the Government will now subsidize
> it through tax breaks. Where's the money going to
> come from for all those breaks? Isn't this just
> Big Government (a term the GOP use to scare
> people) being directly responsible for paying for
> peoples insurance?
The difference in the cost to the government isn't significantly different between the two. The government is going to pay it directly via subsidies funded by taxes or pay indirectly via tax breaks.
The primary difference intended in Romney's general approach is that it puts the responsibility for managing the costs closer to people paying for the services. The idea being if you have to pay for something then you'll better regulate its use versus magic money that just rains down from the government. If you don't see the cost, then nobody cares what things cost. Similar to anything else that's paid for by the government or insurance, who cares, you're not paying.
You can argue good/bad points with both approaches but that's the general idea. Regardless what anyone tells you, both largely are fantasy in many respects given that we can't fully predict what actually will happen, dynamic changes which will happen, and unintended consequences. Neither really addresses the elephant in the room which is the rapidly rising costs for healthcare. Any changes to that resulting from both plans is at the margins only.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, thats a crazy plan. So, Romney wants the
> Government to shoulder the cost through tax
> breaks? This would cost A LOT. Think about it,
> right now Obama's plan, according to the CBO, will
> save money.
>
> OTOH, the Romney plan means that instead of
> insurance premiums being shared by employees and
> their employers, the Government will now subsidize
> it through tax breaks. Where's the money going to
> come from for all those breaks? Isn't this just
> Big Government (a term the GOP use to scare
> people) being directly responsible for paying for
> peoples insurance?
The difference in the cost to the government isn't significantly different between the two. The government is going to pay it directly via subsidies funded by taxes or pay indirectly via tax breaks.
The primary difference intended in Romney's general approach is that it puts the responsibility for managing the costs closer to people paying for the services. The idea being if you have to pay for something then you'll better regulate its use versus magic money that just rains down from the government. If you don't see the cost, then nobody cares what things cost. Similar to anything else that's paid for by the government or insurance, who cares, you're not paying.
You can argue good/bad points with both approaches but that's the general idea. Regardless what anyone tells you, both largely are fantasy in many respects given that we can't fully predict what actually will happen, dynamic changes which will happen, and unintended consequences. Neither really addresses the elephant in the room which is the rapidly rising costs for healthcare. Any changes to that resulting from both plans is at the margins only.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
res
()
Date: July 25, 2012 09:40AM
Yeah, I see your point and think your probably right. I can only imaging all the things the GOP would accuse Obama of if he proposed this.
I guess when you talk about "money raining down" your talking about the underinsured or people on Medicade? Or are you talking about people with a plan between them and your employer? If the former, lower income people won't get enough tax breaks to pay for insurance since their incomes are too low.
If the latter then I can't see the GOP being on board with Government being in the middle of (somehow) subsidizing people paying for insurance.
If this is Romneys plan I can see why he's keeping it on the down low.
I guess when you talk about "money raining down" your talking about the underinsured or people on Medicade? Or are you talking about people with a plan between them and your employer? If the former, lower income people won't get enough tax breaks to pay for insurance since their incomes are too low.
If the latter then I can't see the GOP being on board with Government being in the middle of (somehow) subsidizing people paying for insurance.
If this is Romneys plan I can see why he's keeping it on the down low.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
sounds good
()
Date: July 25, 2012 10:50AM
Freedom For All Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with Romney's "new" healthcare plan is
> it still requires the individual mandate just at a
> state level. The issue is Americans shouldn't be
> told by the government that they need to pay for a
> service.
>
> I still don't think every resident in VA should be
> forced to buy car insurance.
There's a portion of the premium that you pay to cover you against uninsured motoriests. That would increase if there were a large increase in the uninsured.
It would create a lot of employment for lawyers if no one had car insurance.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with Romney's "new" healthcare plan is
> it still requires the individual mandate just at a
> state level. The issue is Americans shouldn't be
> told by the government that they need to pay for a
> service.
>
> I still don't think every resident in VA should be
> forced to buy car insurance.
There's a portion of the premium that you pay to cover you against uninsured motoriests. That would increase if there were a large increase in the uninsured.
It would create a lot of employment for lawyers if no one had car insurance.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
res
()
Date: July 25, 2012 05:15PM
Freedom For All Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with Romney's "new" healthcare plan is
> it still requires the individual mandate just at a
> state level. The issue is Americans shouldn't be
> told by the government that they need to pay for a
> service.
>
> I still don't think every resident in VA should be
> forced to buy car insurance.
In a purely Libertarian sense, then ok, fine, no one should be forced to buy insurance. "Problem" is though we're not a 3rd world country and we won't throw people out of emergency rooms onto the street because they don't have insurance. Talk is cheap and its easy to say that we should be that hardcore, but most people agree we're better than that.
There's a lot of things in this country where we all "pay into it" but don't use the end result equally or 100%. Highways, schools, Social Security, Parks and Rec, etc...
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with Romney's "new" healthcare plan is
> it still requires the individual mandate just at a
> state level. The issue is Americans shouldn't be
> told by the government that they need to pay for a
> service.
>
> I still don't think every resident in VA should be
> forced to buy car insurance.
In a purely Libertarian sense, then ok, fine, no one should be forced to buy insurance. "Problem" is though we're not a 3rd world country and we won't throw people out of emergency rooms onto the street because they don't have insurance. Talk is cheap and its easy to say that we should be that hardcore, but most people agree we're better than that.
There's a lot of things in this country where we all "pay into it" but don't use the end result equally or 100%. Highways, schools, Social Security, Parks and Rec, etc...
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Qwest
()
Date: July 28, 2012 11:40AM
Freedom For All Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with Romney's "new" healthcare plan is
> it still requires the individual mandate just at a
> state level. The issue is Americans shouldn't be
> told by the government that they need to pay for a
> service.
>
> I still don't think every resident in VA should be
> forced to buy car insurance.
The issue is that if some Virginia residents don't have car insurance than those that do have car insurance have to pay double because if they are hit by an uninsured motorists their own insurance has to pay. Insurance companies have to charge more to make up for their loss.
Same issue with uninsured healthcare. People go to the emergency room and then don't pay. So hospitals pass that cost on to others that do pay in the form of higher prices.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with Romney's "new" healthcare plan is
> it still requires the individual mandate just at a
> state level. The issue is Americans shouldn't be
> told by the government that they need to pay for a
> service.
>
> I still don't think every resident in VA should be
> forced to buy car insurance.
The issue is that if some Virginia residents don't have car insurance than those that do have car insurance have to pay double because if they are hit by an uninsured motorists their own insurance has to pay. Insurance companies have to charge more to make up for their loss.
Same issue with uninsured healthcare. People go to the emergency room and then don't pay. So hospitals pass that cost on to others that do pay in the form of higher prices.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Vexxxed
()
Date: July 28, 2012 12:30PM
Qwest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Same issue with uninsured healthcare. People go
> to the emergency room and then don't pay. So
> hospitals pass that cost on to others that do pay
> in the form of higher prices.
Thirty years ago a box of tissues was $10.00 on a room tab.
If you think for a second that hospitals are losing money through the ER dealing with paper cuts.........you'd be very far from correct.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Same issue with uninsured healthcare. People go
> to the emergency room and then don't pay. So
> hospitals pass that cost on to others that do pay
> in the form of higher prices.
Thirty years ago a box of tissues was $10.00 on a room tab.
If you think for a second that hospitals are losing money through the ER dealing with paper cuts.........you'd be very far from correct.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Dr. Who
()
Date: July 28, 2012 07:07PM
Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Qwest Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Same issue with uninsured healthcare. People
> go
> > to the emergency room and then don't pay. So
> > hospitals pass that cost on to others that do
> pay
> > in the form of higher prices.
>
>
> Thirty years ago a box of tissues was $10.00 on a
> room tab.
>
> If you think for a second that hospitals are
> losing money through the ER dealing with paper
> cuts.........you'd be very far from correct.
That's kind of a whole 'nuther area of this debate that's been misrpresented - the significance of the uninsured. It's a factor but it's not what's really driving costs up. Mostly it's that the costs are high and rising generally overall on their own. And along with that we've got a big plug of older folks who are going to drain the system given that's when you have most medical costs. Both plans are mostly ways to have more people who don't actually use the system much finance the cost for those who do. You're still going to have the uninsured and other folks going to the emergency room for routine treatment even with either plan in place so they don't even do much to address that issue.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Qwest Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Same issue with uninsured healthcare. People
> go
> > to the emergency room and then don't pay. So
> > hospitals pass that cost on to others that do
> pay
> > in the form of higher prices.
>
>
> Thirty years ago a box of tissues was $10.00 on a
> room tab.
>
> If you think for a second that hospitals are
> losing money through the ER dealing with paper
> cuts.........you'd be very far from correct.
That's kind of a whole 'nuther area of this debate that's been misrpresented - the significance of the uninsured. It's a factor but it's not what's really driving costs up. Mostly it's that the costs are high and rising generally overall on their own. And along with that we've got a big plug of older folks who are going to drain the system given that's when you have most medical costs. Both plans are mostly ways to have more people who don't actually use the system much finance the cost for those who do. You're still going to have the uninsured and other folks going to the emergency room for routine treatment even with either plan in place so they don't even do much to address that issue.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Lester
()
Date: July 28, 2012 08:41PM
The bigger cost-shifting is coming from Medicare and Medicaid. That's why the move to get everyone else in private insurance.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2008/12/09/170582/cost-shift-private/?mobile=nc
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2008/12/09/170582/cost-shift-private/?mobile=nc
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Vexxxed
()
Date: July 28, 2012 08:42PM
Dr. Who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's kind of a whole 'nuther area of this debate
> that's been misrpresented - the significance of
> the uninsured. It's a factor but it's not what's
> really driving costs up. Mostly it's that the
> costs are high and rising generally overall on
> their own. And along with that we've got a big
> plug of older folks who are going to drain the
> system given that's when you have most medical
> costs. Both plans are mostly ways to have more
> people who don't actually use the system much
> finance the cost for those who do. You're still
> going to have the uninsured and other folks going
> to the emergency room for routine treatment even
> with either plan in place so they don't even do
> much to address that issue.
They skipped right over the real problem. The cost. Instead of dealing with highway robbery, they took that off the table by promising that "someone" would pay the tab for everyone.
If the medical industry were honest and fair, they wouldn't charge a walk in patient $1500 for a series of blood tests when the insurance companies only pay the labs $175 for the honor of doing all the work.
There's the problem. Now find someone with enough balls to take it on. Wont be a Republican because business is business and it wont be a Democrat because lawyers would get dragged through he mud along with insurance companies.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's kind of a whole 'nuther area of this debate
> that's been misrpresented - the significance of
> the uninsured. It's a factor but it's not what's
> really driving costs up. Mostly it's that the
> costs are high and rising generally overall on
> their own. And along with that we've got a big
> plug of older folks who are going to drain the
> system given that's when you have most medical
> costs. Both plans are mostly ways to have more
> people who don't actually use the system much
> finance the cost for those who do. You're still
> going to have the uninsured and other folks going
> to the emergency room for routine treatment even
> with either plan in place so they don't even do
> much to address that issue.
They skipped right over the real problem. The cost. Instead of dealing with highway robbery, they took that off the table by promising that "someone" would pay the tab for everyone.
If the medical industry were honest and fair, they wouldn't charge a walk in patient $1500 for a series of blood tests when the insurance companies only pay the labs $175 for the honor of doing all the work.
There's the problem. Now find someone with enough balls to take it on. Wont be a Republican because business is business and it wont be a Democrat because lawyers would get dragged through he mud along with insurance companies.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Econ 101
()
Date: October 30, 2012 09:33AM
The problem is that Romney's healthcare plan still uses taxpayer dollars.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Lester
()
Date: October 30, 2012 10:19AM
Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Who Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > That's kind of a whole 'nuther area of this
> debate
> > that's been misrpresented - the significance of
> > the uninsured. It's a factor but it's not
> what's
> > really driving costs up. Mostly it's that the
> > costs are high and rising generally overall on
> > their own. And along with that we've got a big
> > plug of older folks who are going to drain the
> > system given that's when you have most medical
> > costs. Both plans are mostly ways to have more
> > people who don't actually use the system much
> > finance the cost for those who do. You're
> still
> > going to have the uninsured and other folks
> going
> > to the emergency room for routine treatment
> even
> > with either plan in place so they don't even do
> > much to address that issue.
>
>
> They skipped right over the real problem. The
> cost. Instead of dealing with highway robbery,
> they took that off the table by promising that
> "someone" would pay the tab for everyone.
>
> If the medical industry were honest and fair, they
> wouldn't charge a walk in patient $1500 for a
> series of blood tests when the insurance companies
> only pay the labs $175 for the honor of doing all
> the work.
>
> There's the problem. Now find someone with enough
> balls to take it on. Wont be a Republican because
> business is business and it wont be a Democrat
> because lawyers would get dragged through he mud
> along with insurance companies.
Get an online lab account, such as mymedlabs. The price for blood tests are much much lower than what's being billed to the insurance companies. The tests usually run around $30 to $150. If you group the tests into custom-designed panels (group of related tests), they cost much less.
You can also call around hospitals and radiologists for x-rays, CT scans, MRIs, etc. and negotiate a pre-pay price. They're usually about 60-70 percent off.
A lot of my friends are in 10K deductible health plans and order their own tests so they can PREVENT disease or find cancer in its very early stage.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Who Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > That's kind of a whole 'nuther area of this
> debate
> > that's been misrpresented - the significance of
> > the uninsured. It's a factor but it's not
> what's
> > really driving costs up. Mostly it's that the
> > costs are high and rising generally overall on
> > their own. And along with that we've got a big
> > plug of older folks who are going to drain the
> > system given that's when you have most medical
> > costs. Both plans are mostly ways to have more
> > people who don't actually use the system much
> > finance the cost for those who do. You're
> still
> > going to have the uninsured and other folks
> going
> > to the emergency room for routine treatment
> even
> > with either plan in place so they don't even do
> > much to address that issue.
>
>
> They skipped right over the real problem. The
> cost. Instead of dealing with highway robbery,
> they took that off the table by promising that
> "someone" would pay the tab for everyone.
>
> If the medical industry were honest and fair, they
> wouldn't charge a walk in patient $1500 for a
> series of blood tests when the insurance companies
> only pay the labs $175 for the honor of doing all
> the work.
>
> There's the problem. Now find someone with enough
> balls to take it on. Wont be a Republican because
> business is business and it wont be a Democrat
> because lawyers would get dragged through he mud
> along with insurance companies.
Get an online lab account, such as mymedlabs. The price for blood tests are much much lower than what's being billed to the insurance companies. The tests usually run around $30 to $150. If you group the tests into custom-designed panels (group of related tests), they cost much less.
You can also call around hospitals and radiologists for x-rays, CT scans, MRIs, etc. and negotiate a pre-pay price. They're usually about 60-70 percent off.
A lot of my friends are in 10K deductible health plans and order their own tests so they can PREVENT disease or find cancer in its very early stage.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
obamas grrl
()
Date: October 30, 2012 10:22AM
Either way I dont pay
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Shopper
()
Date: October 30, 2012 10:35AM
Lester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dr. Who Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > That's kind of a whole 'nuther area of this
> > debate
> > > that's been misrpresented - the significance
> of
> > > the uninsured. It's a factor but it's not
> > what's
> > > really driving costs up. Mostly it's that
> the
> > > costs are high and rising generally overall
> on
> > > their own. And along with that we've got a
> big
> > > plug of older folks who are going to drain
> the
> > > system given that's when you have most
> medical
> > > costs. Both plans are mostly ways to have
> more
> > > people who don't actually use the system much
> > > finance the cost for those who do. You're
> > still
> > > going to have the uninsured and other folks
> > going
> > > to the emergency room for routine treatment
> > even
> > > with either plan in place so they don't even
> do
> > > much to address that issue.
> >
> >
> > They skipped right over the real problem. The
> > cost. Instead of dealing with highway robbery,
> > they took that off the table by promising that
> > "someone" would pay the tab for everyone.
> >
> > If the medical industry were honest and fair,
> they
> > wouldn't charge a walk in patient $1500 for a
> > series of blood tests when the insurance
> companies
> > only pay the labs $175 for the honor of doing
> all
> > the work.
> >
> > There's the problem. Now find someone with
> enough
> > balls to take it on. Wont be a Republican
> because
> > business is business and it wont be a Democrat
> > because lawyers would get dragged through he
> mud
> > along with insurance companies.
>
> Get an online lab account, such as mymedlabs. The
> price for blood tests are much much lower than
> what's being billed to the insurance companies.
> The tests usually run around $30 to $150. If you
> group the tests into custom-designed panels (group
> of related tests), they cost much less.
>
> You can also call around hospitals and
> radiologists for x-rays, CT scans, MRIs, etc. and
> negotiate a pre-pay price. They're usually about
> 60-70 percent off.
>
> A lot of my friends are in 10K deductible health
> plans and order their own tests so they can
> PREVENT disease or find cancer in its very early
> stage.
That's the biggest problem with healthcare is that nobody shops around.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dr. Who Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > That's kind of a whole 'nuther area of this
> > debate
> > > that's been misrpresented - the significance
> of
> > > the uninsured. It's a factor but it's not
> > what's
> > > really driving costs up. Mostly it's that
> the
> > > costs are high and rising generally overall
> on
> > > their own. And along with that we've got a
> big
> > > plug of older folks who are going to drain
> the
> > > system given that's when you have most
> medical
> > > costs. Both plans are mostly ways to have
> more
> > > people who don't actually use the system much
> > > finance the cost for those who do. You're
> > still
> > > going to have the uninsured and other folks
> > going
> > > to the emergency room for routine treatment
> > even
> > > with either plan in place so they don't even
> do
> > > much to address that issue.
> >
> >
> > They skipped right over the real problem. The
> > cost. Instead of dealing with highway robbery,
> > they took that off the table by promising that
> > "someone" would pay the tab for everyone.
> >
> > If the medical industry were honest and fair,
> they
> > wouldn't charge a walk in patient $1500 for a
> > series of blood tests when the insurance
> companies
> > only pay the labs $175 for the honor of doing
> all
> > the work.
> >
> > There's the problem. Now find someone with
> enough
> > balls to take it on. Wont be a Republican
> because
> > business is business and it wont be a Democrat
> > because lawyers would get dragged through he
> mud
> > along with insurance companies.
>
> Get an online lab account, such as mymedlabs. The
> price for blood tests are much much lower than
> what's being billed to the insurance companies.
> The tests usually run around $30 to $150. If you
> group the tests into custom-designed panels (group
> of related tests), they cost much less.
>
> You can also call around hospitals and
> radiologists for x-rays, CT scans, MRIs, etc. and
> negotiate a pre-pay price. They're usually about
> 60-70 percent off.
>
> A lot of my friends are in 10K deductible health
> plans and order their own tests so they can
> PREVENT disease or find cancer in its very early
> stage.
That's the biggest problem with healthcare is that nobody shops around.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Lester
()
Date: October 30, 2012 11:02AM
Preventative care is elective and non-urgent. So you can shop around. Insurance companies won't cover the cost. Preventing a chronic condition before it has to be administered with drug therapy is much cheaper. If you have to take a drug for diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol control, and so on, you have to go to the doctor every three months just to get the stupid prescription refilled. It's more or less an abbreviated physical and a waste of time and money.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Roger
()
Date: October 30, 2012 11:08AM
I like the fact that Romney mandated all of his state to buy healthcare. It takes the burden off the state and keeps people from freeloading.
Romney has the correct idea with mandates.
Romney has the correct idea with mandates.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Fathers of Distinction
()
Date: October 30, 2012 11:24AM
They're not buying healthcare. They're buying insurance.
They're not freeloading. They're being pooled into the population that supports the freeloaders.
Romney didn't have the idea. The insurance companies had the idea in 1992 when the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, published its paper supporting the universal mandate.
They're not freeloading. They're being pooled into the population that supports the freeloaders.
Romney didn't have the idea. The insurance companies had the idea in 1992 when the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, published its paper supporting the universal mandate.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Ito
()
Date: October 30, 2012 11:53AM
Personally I would rather not have Romney win just because I'm tired of all the bickering about healthcare while the rest of Rome burns. All he's going to do is pull the scab off the wound and we start all over again.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Fixer Upper
()
Date: October 30, 2012 12:45PM
Ito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally I would rather not have Romney win just
> because I'm tired of all the bickering about
> healthcare while the rest of Rome burns. All he's
> going to do is pull the scab off the wound and we
> start all over again.
Yeah, cause the plan they passed is rock solid. lol
It ain't. They're going to have to make a lot of the same changes. Even they know that. Despite what they may have said at the time, it wasn't passed as a coherent, working bill. It was passed as a placeholder toward universal healthcare.
Even the guy who's the primary architect of the plan for both Romney's approach in MA and Obamacare (yes, the same guy worked as the primary consultant to both camps) admits that the bill is a mess and won't work as is.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally I would rather not have Romney win just
> because I'm tired of all the bickering about
> healthcare while the rest of Rome burns. All he's
> going to do is pull the scab off the wound and we
> start all over again.
Yeah, cause the plan they passed is rock solid. lol
It ain't. They're going to have to make a lot of the same changes. Even they know that. Despite what they may have said at the time, it wasn't passed as a coherent, working bill. It was passed as a placeholder toward universal healthcare.
Even the guy who's the primary architect of the plan for both Romney's approach in MA and Obamacare (yes, the same guy worked as the primary consultant to both camps) admits that the bill is a mess and won't work as is.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Definitely a factor
()
Date: October 30, 2012 12:51PM
Shopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lester Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> That's the biggest problem with healthcare is that
> nobody shops around.
That's because very few people have to shop around. When the bills are paid by insurance companies and/or the gov't then nobody cares what things cost.
I really wish the high-deducible insurance plan / Health Savings Accounts (HSA) combo would finally catch on. That would help lower costs in the long run.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lester Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> That's the biggest problem with healthcare is that
> nobody shops around.
That's because very few people have to shop around. When the bills are paid by insurance companies and/or the gov't then nobody cares what things cost.
I really wish the high-deducible insurance plan / Health Savings Accounts (HSA) combo would finally catch on. That would help lower costs in the long run.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
Lester
()
Date: October 30, 2012 01:11PM
They're both universal coverage. Insurance coverage is unaffordable for many due to medical conditions, age, or economic status. The taxpayers will end up footing the bill for them to get covered. More people will end up seeking regular medical visits because they're being billed for insurance. In a sense, it is already universal healthcare ... if you consider being forced to visit an HMO a necessity.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
plain truth
()
Date: October 30, 2012 01:22PM
Face facts, there will always be a segment of society who just will not provide for themselves. As long as you have democrats convincing them it is not their fault they are actually victims of an unjust society they will be with us.
You have liberals providing them with luxury condos while in the section 8 housing program. Condos they would never be able to afford on their own so they stay locked into a system that rewards irresonsible behavior over those that get up and go to work everyday.
You have liberals providing them with luxury condos while in the section 8 housing program. Condos they would never be able to afford on their own so they stay locked into a system that rewards irresonsible behavior over those that get up and go to work everyday.
Re: Romney New Healthcare Plan Vs ObamaCare?
Posted by:
nopie
()
Date: October 30, 2012 01:57PM
As long as you have hombuilders and developers whispering in the ear of local officials, you have these programs to sell more homes. That's what these county programs for down payment assistance and housing vouchers are all about.