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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
Khartoum
()
Date: May 11, 2015 05:40PM
Why was Tom Hagen not considered a good war-time consigliore? Because he was Irish? Because he wasn't Sicilian like Don Vito's previous consigliore, Genco Abbendando? Because he was adopted and not blood related to the family?
While he never took what I would call the "popular view" on things, I always felt that Tom took the view that no one else was considering, regardless of whether they ultimately chose that course of action. Isn't that what makes a good consigliore...war-time or peace-time?
While he never took what I would call the "popular view" on things, I always felt that Tom took the view that no one else was considering, regardless of whether they ultimately chose that course of action. Isn't that what makes a good consigliore...war-time or peace-time?
Re: A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
Yep
()
Date: May 11, 2015 05:57PM
Because he was Irish, during that era you had to be 100% Italian or even Sicilian. The philosophy was to understand a Sicilian you had to think like a Sicilian, the only way to think like one was to be a blood Sicilian. It was old time theory that had no relevance in fact but that's how the clan thought. It still exists with Semites like Arabs and Jews.
Re: A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
real reason
()
Date: May 11, 2015 06:09PM
Khartoum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why was Tom Hagen not considered a good war-time
> consigliore? Because he was Irish? Because he
> wasn't Sicilian like Don Vito's previous
> consigliore, Genco Abbendando? Because he was
> adopted and not blood related to the family?
Power move by Michael. Hagen was the old consigliere under Vito. Michael takes the reins and marks out his own territory by "getting rid of old management". He is in command, in no way influenced or controlled by the previous administration.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why was Tom Hagen not considered a good war-time
> consigliore? Because he was Irish? Because he
> wasn't Sicilian like Don Vito's previous
> consigliore, Genco Abbendando? Because he was
> adopted and not blood related to the family?
Power move by Michael. Hagen was the old consigliere under Vito. Michael takes the reins and marks out his own territory by "getting rid of old management". He is in command, in no way influenced or controlled by the previous administration.
Re: A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
ponder this
()
Date: May 11, 2015 06:18PM
Yep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because he was Irish, during that era you had to
> be 100% Italian or even Sicilian. The philosophy
> was to understand a Sicilian you had to think like
> a Sicilian, the only way to think like one was to
> be a blood Sicilian. It was old time theory that
> had no relevance in fact but that's how the clan
> thought. It still exists with Semites like Arabs
> and Jews.
Mike was American with Sicilian roots prior to taking over the "Head of Family", what really sealed and molded him as more Sicilian than American was his experiences in Sicily (hiding), there he was truly absorbed into Sicilian culture. Starting with the "old fashion" ways of the natives, like the marriage courting thing. You might say he "went native 100%", when he returned he was a true Sicilian.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because he was Irish, during that era you had to
> be 100% Italian or even Sicilian. The philosophy
> was to understand a Sicilian you had to think like
> a Sicilian, the only way to think like one was to
> be a blood Sicilian. It was old time theory that
> had no relevance in fact but that's how the clan
> thought. It still exists with Semites like Arabs
> and Jews.
Mike was American with Sicilian roots prior to taking over the "Head of Family", what really sealed and molded him as more Sicilian than American was his experiences in Sicily (hiding), there he was truly absorbed into Sicilian culture. Starting with the "old fashion" ways of the natives, like the marriage courting thing. You might say he "went native 100%", when he returned he was a true Sicilian.
Re: A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
real reason
()
Date: May 11, 2015 06:40PM
It wasn't because he was non-italian. In fact, Michael makes Tom the acting Don in later in Part 2. it was really just Michael carving out his own power infrastructure.
Re: A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
Khartoum
()
Date: May 11, 2015 06:55PM
Yep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because he was Irish, during that era you had to
> be 100% Italian or even Sicilian. The philosophy
> was to understand a Sicilian you had to think like
> a Sicilian, the only way to think like one was to
> be a blood Sicilian. It was old time theory that
> had no relevance in fact but that's how the clan
> thought. It still exists with Semites like Arabs
> and Jews.
Ok. I get that. But, no one understood the traditions of the business like Don Vito. So, why would he go through all the trouble of bringing in this stranger off the street as a boy (he was Sonny's friend at school), adopt him, pay for his education, and install him as consigliere...with the knowledge that someday someone would challenge Hagen's authority to hold the position?
We all want to be loyal to our Don...our Godfather, right? If Don Vito sees fit to install some blonde headed, Irish adopted son of the family as consigliere then who am I to question the Don's judgment?
Which I think also gives weight to "real reason's" remarks. Michael's in charge, new boss...NOT the same as the old boss. And he's welcome to run the family the way he best sees fit. It's good to be the king.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because he was Irish, during that era you had to
> be 100% Italian or even Sicilian. The philosophy
> was to understand a Sicilian you had to think like
> a Sicilian, the only way to think like one was to
> be a blood Sicilian. It was old time theory that
> had no relevance in fact but that's how the clan
> thought. It still exists with Semites like Arabs
> and Jews.
Ok. I get that. But, no one understood the traditions of the business like Don Vito. So, why would he go through all the trouble of bringing in this stranger off the street as a boy (he was Sonny's friend at school), adopt him, pay for his education, and install him as consigliere...with the knowledge that someday someone would challenge Hagen's authority to hold the position?
We all want to be loyal to our Don...our Godfather, right? If Don Vito sees fit to install some blonde headed, Irish adopted son of the family as consigliere then who am I to question the Don's judgment?
Which I think also gives weight to "real reason's" remarks. Michael's in charge, new boss...NOT the same as the old boss. And he's welcome to run the family the way he best sees fit. It's good to be the king.
Re: A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
Yep/ponder this
()
Date: May 11, 2015 06:57PM
What you say can very well be the reason, I've never considered it from that angle. Makes sense to me.
Re: A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
Yep/ponder this
()
Date: May 11, 2015 07:00PM
A new "regime" not unusual method of operation for any business.
Re: A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
real reason
()
Date: May 11, 2015 07:40PM
Khartoum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which I think also gives weight to "real reason's"
> remarks. Michael's in charge, new boss...NOT the
> same as the old boss. And he's welcome to run the
> family the way he best sees fit.
Shows your whole crew who's in charge now, but I think it sends a message to the other mafia familes: you are no longer dealing with the same old Corleone family, it's gonna be a whole new ballgame here in New York.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which I think also gives weight to "real reason's"
> remarks. Michael's in charge, new boss...NOT the
> same as the old boss. And he's welcome to run the
> family the way he best sees fit.
Shows your whole crew who's in charge now, but I think it sends a message to the other mafia familes: you are no longer dealing with the same old Corleone family, it's gonna be a whole new ballgame here in New York.
Re: A question about the film "The Godfather"
Posted by:
The Watcher
()
Date: May 12, 2015 08:20AM
Khartoum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok. I get that. But, no one understood the
> traditions of the business like Don Vito. So, why
> would he go through all the trouble of bringing in
> this stranger off the street as a boy (he was
> Sonny's friend at school), adopt him, pay for his
> education, and install him as consigliere...with
> the knowledge that someday someone would challenge
> Hagen's authority to hold the position?
I think that you're assigning too much prescience to Don Vito. Taking in and adopting Tom Hagen was an act of charity by the Corleone family. As he grew, Vito no doubt liked what he saw in Tom. I think that Vito thought more highly of Tom than he did of Sonny, and much, much more highly than than Frado. With regard to his embrace of Tom as his fourth son, I doubt that Don Vito was much influenced by what he thought might happen after his death.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok. I get that. But, no one understood the
> traditions of the business like Don Vito. So, why
> would he go through all the trouble of bringing in
> this stranger off the street as a boy (he was
> Sonny's friend at school), adopt him, pay for his
> education, and install him as consigliere...with
> the knowledge that someday someone would challenge
> Hagen's authority to hold the position?
I think that you're assigning too much prescience to Don Vito. Taking in and adopting Tom Hagen was an act of charity by the Corleone family. As he grew, Vito no doubt liked what he saw in Tom. I think that Vito thought more highly of Tom than he did of Sonny, and much, much more highly than than Frado. With regard to his embrace of Tom as his fourth son, I doubt that Don Vito was much influenced by what he thought might happen after his death.