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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
WashingTone Locian
()
Date: January 26, 2009 11:38AM
Not sure where Obama is going with this. Allowing states to set their own emissions standards will cost a fortune in compliance (for both automakers and consumers). The only thing I can think of is he is putting the onus back on Congress to come up with better Federal standards...
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/26/obama.emissions/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/26/obama.emissions/index.html
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
pgens
()
Date: January 26, 2009 11:55AM
A reason it doesn't make much sense is that automakers will have to conform to the strictest ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those states. California's independent drive for such standards have helped the nation.
But I thought the administration was going to show more leadership on driving efficiency standards up... there needs to be a more pronounced federal role in this area.
But I thought the administration was going to show more leadership on driving efficiency standards up... there needs to be a more pronounced federal role in this area.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
California Dreamin'
()
Date: January 26, 2009 12:19PM
pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> automakers will have to conform to the strictest
> ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> states. California's independent drive for such
> standards have helped the nation.
>
> But I thought the administration was going to show
> more leadership on driving efficiency standards
> up... there needs to be a more pronounced federal
> role in this area.
That's the whole reason behind it. Automakers have been making California emission cars for decades. This will force them to make the cleaner emission cars a larger percentage of their output. Cali did it at the state level; Obama is now continuing it at the federal level by giving states the autonomy to raise the standards as they see fit.
-------------------------------------------------------
> A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> automakers will have to conform to the strictest
> ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> states. California's independent drive for such
> standards have helped the nation.
>
> But I thought the administration was going to show
> more leadership on driving efficiency standards
> up... there needs to be a more pronounced federal
> role in this area.
That's the whole reason behind it. Automakers have been making California emission cars for decades. This will force them to make the cleaner emission cars a larger percentage of their output. Cali did it at the state level; Obama is now continuing it at the federal level by giving states the autonomy to raise the standards as they see fit.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
pgens
()
Date: January 26, 2009 12:30PM
But they can already raise the standards... California does it.
I believe there needs to be a federal level though... yes states can already to it, but let's cut to the chase and define challenging nationwide standards so the automakers can concentrate what resources they now have on meeting those standards. The LAST thing automakers need is to sink R&D money into making more efficient vehicles just to have state legislatures pass arbitrary standards at different times and create fifty new moving targets. Instead, the administration should just apply a copy of the California standards nationwide and establish a schedule of tighter standards over time.
I believe there needs to be a federal level though... yes states can already to it, but let's cut to the chase and define challenging nationwide standards so the automakers can concentrate what resources they now have on meeting those standards. The LAST thing automakers need is to sink R&D money into making more efficient vehicles just to have state legislatures pass arbitrary standards at different times and create fifty new moving targets. Instead, the administration should just apply a copy of the California standards nationwide and establish a schedule of tighter standards over time.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
sk8ter bOI
()
Date: January 26, 2009 12:41PM
Well put.
pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But they can already raise the standards...
> California does it.
>
> I believe there needs to be a federal level
> though... yes states can already to it, but let's
> cut to the chase and define challenging nationwide
> standards so the automakers can concentrate what
> resources they now have on meeting those
> standards. The LAST thing automakers need is to
> sink R&D money into making more efficient vehicles
> just to have state legislatures pass arbitrary
> standards at different times and create fifty new
> moving targets. Instead, the administration
> should just apply a copy of the California
> standards nationwide and establish a schedule of
> tighter standards over time.
pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But they can already raise the standards...
> California does it.
>
> I believe there needs to be a federal level
> though... yes states can already to it, but let's
> cut to the chase and define challenging nationwide
> standards so the automakers can concentrate what
> resources they now have on meeting those
> standards. The LAST thing automakers need is to
> sink R&D money into making more efficient vehicles
> just to have state legislatures pass arbitrary
> standards at different times and create fifty new
> moving targets. Instead, the administration
> should just apply a copy of the California
> standards nationwide and establish a schedule of
> tighter standards over time.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
inkahootz
()
Date: January 26, 2009 12:44PM
What I find weird, is the fact that the article says that Obama is forcing the EPA to reconsider Cali's application to raise emissions and fuel efficiency standards to a more stringent level than the current federal level. I thought they had done that decades ago. I think it has more to do w/ the mileage aspect of the emmisions standard than the pollution levels. Either way, if they allow Cali to raise the mileage standards, others will follow.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
WashingTone Locian
()
Date: January 26, 2009 12:46PM
inkahootz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I find weird, is the fact that the article
> says that Obama is forcing the EPA to reconsider
> Cali's application to raise emissions and fuel
> efficiency standards to a more stringent level
> than the current federal level. I thought they had
> done that decades ago. I think it has more to do
> w/ the mileage aspect of the emmisions standard
> than the pollution levels. Either way, if they
> allow Cali to raise the mileage standards, others
> will follow.
California tried to raise its standards and Bush put the kibosh on it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I find weird, is the fact that the article
> says that Obama is forcing the EPA to reconsider
> Cali's application to raise emissions and fuel
> efficiency standards to a more stringent level
> than the current federal level. I thought they had
> done that decades ago. I think it has more to do
> w/ the mileage aspect of the emmisions standard
> than the pollution levels. Either way, if they
> allow Cali to raise the mileage standards, others
> will follow.
California tried to raise its standards and Bush put the kibosh on it.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: January 26, 2009 03:19PM
pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> automakers will have to conform to the strictest
> ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> states. California's independent drive for such
> standards have helped the nation.
>
> But I thought the administration was going to show
> more leadership on driving efficiency standards
> up... there needs to be a more pronounced federal
> role in this area.
I am sure this is not the last word from the Obama administration on emission standars..it's just something that could be easily done with a swipe of the pen...not needing long drawn out congressional hearings and law passage. It is a genious move to move quickly toward more efficient cars and trucks.
-------------------------------------------------------
> A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> automakers will have to conform to the strictest
> ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> states. California's independent drive for such
> standards have helped the nation.
>
> But I thought the administration was going to show
> more leadership on driving efficiency standards
> up... there needs to be a more pronounced federal
> role in this area.
I am sure this is not the last word from the Obama administration on emission standars..it's just something that could be easily done with a swipe of the pen...not needing long drawn out congressional hearings and law passage. It is a genious move to move quickly toward more efficient cars and trucks.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
WashingTone Locian
()
Date: January 26, 2009 03:24PM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> > automakers will have to conform to the
> strictest
> > ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> > states. California's independent drive for
> such
> > standards have helped the nation.
> >
> > But I thought the administration was going to
> show
> > more leadership on driving efficiency standards
> > up... there needs to be a more pronounced
> federal
> > role in this area.
>
> I am sure this is not the last word from the Obama
> administration on emission standars..it's just
> something that could be easily done with a swipe
> of the pen...not needing long drawn out
> congressional hearings and law passage. It is a
> genious move to move quickly toward more efficient
> cars and trucks.
My hope is it puts members of Congress back on their heels so that they are willing to negotiate regarding Federal standards.
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> > automakers will have to conform to the
> strictest
> > ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> > states. California's independent drive for
> such
> > standards have helped the nation.
> >
> > But I thought the administration was going to
> show
> > more leadership on driving efficiency standards
> > up... there needs to be a more pronounced
> federal
> > role in this area.
>
> I am sure this is not the last word from the Obama
> administration on emission standars..it's just
> something that could be easily done with a swipe
> of the pen...not needing long drawn out
> congressional hearings and law passage. It is a
> genious move to move quickly toward more efficient
> cars and trucks.
My hope is it puts members of Congress back on their heels so that they are willing to negotiate regarding Federal standards.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
MrMephisto
()
Date: January 26, 2009 03:29PM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sure this is not the last word from the Obama
> administration on emission standars..it's just
> something that could be easily done with a swipe
> of the pen...not needing long drawn out
> congressional hearings and law passage.
Yeah. FUCK the Legislative branch of the government. All they ever do is get in the way when the president wants to do something awesome.
> It is a
> genious move to move quickly toward more efficient
> cars and trucks.
When the American Automotive Industry gets done buying hookers and blow with our bail-out money, and then when they're finished snorting the blow off the hookers' asses with rolled-up bail-out dollars, I'm sure they'll have plenty of money left over for R&D into more efficient cars and trucks AND manage to barely stay in business.
Dear God, Vince, why didn't you run for president? You could have this normally-complicated shit solved by your third day in office.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sure this is not the last word from the Obama
> administration on emission standars..it's just
> something that could be easily done with a swipe
> of the pen...not needing long drawn out
> congressional hearings and law passage.
Yeah. FUCK the Legislative branch of the government. All they ever do is get in the way when the president wants to do something awesome.
> It is a
> genious move to move quickly toward more efficient
> cars and trucks.
When the American Automotive Industry gets done buying hookers and blow with our bail-out money, and then when they're finished snorting the blow off the hookers' asses with rolled-up bail-out dollars, I'm sure they'll have plenty of money left over for R&D into more efficient cars and trucks AND manage to barely stay in business.
Dear God, Vince, why didn't you run for president? You could have this normally-complicated shit solved by your third day in office.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
inkahootz
()
Date: January 26, 2009 03:49PM
WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> inkahootz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What I find weird, is the fact that the article
> > says that Obama is forcing the EPA to
> reconsider
> > Cali's application to raise emissions and fuel
> > efficiency standards to a more stringent level
> > than the current federal level. I thought they
> had
> > done that decades ago. I think it has more to
> do
> > w/ the mileage aspect of the emmisions standard
> > than the pollution levels. Either way, if they
> > allow Cali to raise the mileage standards,
> others
> > will follow.
>
>
> California tried to raise its standards and Bush
> put the kibosh on it.
Bush put the kibosh on the increased mileage standards; This is what Obama is forcing the EPA to revisit. Cali has had the raised emission/pollution standards for decades.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2009 04:31PM by inkahootz.
-------------------------------------------------------
> inkahootz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What I find weird, is the fact that the article
> > says that Obama is forcing the EPA to
> reconsider
> > Cali's application to raise emissions and fuel
> > efficiency standards to a more stringent level
> > than the current federal level. I thought they
> had
> > done that decades ago. I think it has more to
> do
> > w/ the mileage aspect of the emmisions standard
> > than the pollution levels. Either way, if they
> > allow Cali to raise the mileage standards,
> others
> > will follow.
>
>
> California tried to raise its standards and Bush
> put the kibosh on it.
Bush put the kibosh on the increased mileage standards; This is what Obama is forcing the EPA to revisit. Cali has had the raised emission/pollution standards for decades.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2009 04:31PM by inkahootz.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
ITRADE
()
Date: January 26, 2009 04:07PM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> > automakers will have to conform to the
> strictest
> > ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> > states. California's independent drive for
> such
> > standards have helped the nation.
> >
> > But I thought the administration was going to
> show
> > more leadership on driving efficiency standards
> > up... there needs to be a more pronounced
> federal
> > role in this area.
>
> I am sure this is not the last word from the Obama
> administration on emission standars..it's just
> something that could be easily done with a swipe
> of the pen...not needing long drawn out
> congressional hearings and law passage.
Funny that when Dubya did that, it was labelled "imperial presidency".
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> > automakers will have to conform to the
> strictest
> > ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> > states. California's independent drive for
> such
> > standards have helped the nation.
> >
> > But I thought the administration was going to
> show
> > more leadership on driving efficiency standards
> > up... there needs to be a more pronounced
> federal
> > role in this area.
>
> I am sure this is not the last word from the Obama
> administration on emission standars..it's just
> something that could be easily done with a swipe
> of the pen...not needing long drawn out
> congressional hearings and law passage.
Funny that when Dubya did that, it was labelled "imperial presidency".
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
MrMephisto
()
Date: January 26, 2009 04:24PM
ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funny that when Dubya did that, it was labelled
> "imperial presidency".
You haven't had a lot of interaction with Vinke, have you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funny that when Dubya did that, it was labelled
> "imperial presidency".
You haven't had a lot of interaction with Vinke, have you.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
ITRADE
()
Date: January 26, 2009 04:31PM
Oh, I know, with Vince its a case of "my shit don't stink"...
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: January 26, 2009 05:12PM
ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > pgens Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> > > automakers will have to conform to the
> > strictest
> > > ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> > > states. California's independent drive for
> > such
> > > standards have helped the nation.
> > >
> > > But I thought the administration was going to
> > show
> > > more leadership on driving efficiency
> standards
> > > up... there needs to be a more pronounced
> > federal
> > > role in this area.
> >
> > I am sure this is not the last word from the
> Obama
> > administration on emission standars..it's just
> > something that could be easily done with a
> swipe
> > of the pen...not needing long drawn out
> > congressional hearings and law passage.
>
> Funny that when Dubya did that, it was labelled
> "imperial presidency".
When did he do it? And for what purpose?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > pgens Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > A reason it doesn't make much sense is that
> > > automakers will have to conform to the
> > strictest
> > > ones anyway, or just not sell cars in those
> > > states. California's independent drive for
> > such
> > > standards have helped the nation.
> > >
> > > But I thought the administration was going to
> > show
> > > more leadership on driving efficiency
> standards
> > > up... there needs to be a more pronounced
> > federal
> > > role in this area.
> >
> > I am sure this is not the last word from the
> Obama
> > administration on emission standars..it's just
> > something that could be easily done with a
> swipe
> > of the pen...not needing long drawn out
> > congressional hearings and law passage.
>
> Funny that when Dubya did that, it was labelled
> "imperial presidency".
When did he do it? And for what purpose?
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
MrMephisto
()
Date: January 26, 2009 09:55PM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When did he do it? And for what purpose?
Boy, you're being extra stupid today.
-------------------------------------------------------
> When did he do it? And for what purpose?
Boy, you're being extra stupid today.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: January 26, 2009 09:58PM
MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When did he do it? And for what purpose?
>
> Boy, you're being extra stupid today.
Who the fuck asked you anything? Crawl back into your corner and check my spelling please. If you are a good girl I'll untie your leash bithch!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When did he do it? And for what purpose?
>
> Boy, you're being extra stupid today.
Who the fuck asked you anything? Crawl back into your corner and check my spelling please. If you are a good girl I'll untie your leash bithch!
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
MrMephisto
()
Date: January 26, 2009 10:04PM
Shows improvement!
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
ITRADE
()
Date: January 26, 2009 11:22PM
MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When did he do it? And for what purpose?
>
> Boy, you're being extra stupid today.
Amen.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When did he do it? And for what purpose?
>
> Boy, you're being extra stupid today.
Amen.
Re: Obama and State Emissions Standards
Posted by:
Smell my pinkie
()
Date: January 27, 2009 12:54AM
WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure where Obama is going with this.
Absolutely going nowhere. That's how he rolls.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure where Obama is going with this.
Absolutely going nowhere. That's how he rolls.