Today brings ever more stories of rate shock from people signing up for Obamacare:

Sue Spanke of Missoula, Mont., was highly displeased this fall when she learned her health insurance had been canceled....After angrily calling her state auditor's office, Spanke, a self-employed artist in her 50s, found she was eligible for a federal subsidy. Her new insurance will cover her for a mere $30 to $40 a month with a deductible of only $500. She had been paying $350 a month for a Blue Cross policy with a $5,000 deductible. "I went from a horrible policy that didn't cover anything, that was breaking me, to the best policy at the best price I've had since I was in my 20s," she said.

....In Lancaster, Pa., Lori Lapman, 58, learned her health plan was being canceled in September—by October things were looking up. Per The Sunday News: "Sitting at a laptop with a certified health law helper, Lapman went to HealthCare.gov, found it running smoothly, and bought a subsidized Highmark plan that allows her to keep her doctors while saving her money. Her canceled plan cost her $520 a month. Her new coverage? Only $111.73."

....In a letter to the editor in The Santa Maria Times, Allan Pacela told the story of how after his wife lost her insurance this fall, she found much better coverage under Obamacare. The couple is now saving $8,000 per year for a "much better plan."

There's more at the link, and all from doing a quick Nexis search of newspapers across the country. Just imagine what we might find out with a little bit of old-school shoe-leather reporting.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/12/surprise-lots-people-are-saving-money-thanks-obamacare

Personally, I went from never ever having a deductible to now having one. I am not happy.

I wonder who is paying for all these "savings" Could it be the taxpayers?

Mother Jones is nothing but a propaganda machine for the Marxist Obama administration. I don't believe a word they print.

Mo Free Barry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder who is paying for all these "savings"
> Could it be the taxpayers?


The same ones that pay for corporate tax breaks?

Father Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mother Jones is nothing but a propaganda machine
> for the Marxist Obama administration. I don't
> believe a word they print.


While I know nothing about Mother Jones, I don't utilise the site, I do know that Obama is far from a Marxist. You need to crack a book.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wonder who is paying for all these "savings"
> > Could it be the taxpayers?
>
>
> The same ones that pay for corporate tax breaks?

At least corporations create jobs, real jobs not government jobs like obamacare. I question the "lots of people" Two or three people sucking up what are basically welfare benefits is hardly a lot.

read more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I wonder who is paying for all these
> "savings"
> > > Could it be the taxpayers?
> >
> >
> > The same ones that pay for corporate tax
> breaks?
>
> At least corporations create jobs, real jobs not
> government jobs like obamacare. I question the
> "lots of people" Two or three people sucking up
> what are basically welfare benefits is hardly a
> lot.


Corporations don't create jobs spurred by tax breaks.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wonder who is paying for all these "savings"
> > Could it be the taxpayers?
>
>
> The same ones that pay for corporate tax breaks?


So it's OK to fleece the middle class to pay for massive government programs that don't work because corporation's get tax breaks?

That's stupid.

Obamadoesntcare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I wonder who is paying for all these
> "savings"
> > > Could it be the taxpayers?
> >
> >
> > The same ones that pay for corporate tax
> breaks?
>
>
> So it's OK to fleece the middle class to pay for
> massive government programs that don't work
> because corporation's get tax breaks?
>
> That's stupid.


I'm not saying anything is ok and I've been over this "it doesn't work" issue on another thread. What I'm saying is this has barely been implemented and we still don't know how it's going to work, we know how corporate tax breaks work, they haven't and yet people continue to accept them. Give it a few years and if the country implodes then it doesn't work and a new plan is drawn up.

GetM4th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally, I went from never ever having a
> deductible to now having one. I am not happy.


That is called not having insurance.

read more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I wonder who is paying for all these
> "savings"
> > > Could it be the taxpayers?
> >
> >
> > The same ones that pay for corporate tax
> breaks?
>
> At least corporations create jobs, real jobs not
> government jobs like obamacare. I question the
> "lots of people" Two or three people sucking up
> what are basically welfare benefits is hardly a
> lot.

OHHHH REALLY.....explain this....

With the Affordable Health Care Act, job opportunities in the health care industry are growing, and CareerCast.com has created a list of the hottest jobs in the sector.

"More insured people means an increase in the need for different types of health services, ranging from direct care to research and maintenance of medical records," says Tony Lee, publisher of CareerCast.com.


http://abcnews.go.com/Business/12-demand-health-care-jobs/story?id=21100548

read more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I wonder who is paying for all these
> "savings"
> > > Could it be the taxpayers?
> >
> >
> > The same ones that pay for corporate tax
> breaks?
>
> At least corporations create jobs, real jobs not
> government jobs like obamacare. I question the
> "lots of people" Two or three people sucking up
> what are basically welfare benefits is hardly a
> lot.

LOL WUT. Obamacare creates demand, but demand has done nothing but create economies and wealth.

That's an excellent point. Higher demand for healthcare services will drive up demand for healthcare workers. It also explains my tax break statement.

Insurance would be going up anyway! Insurance companies are never going to drop rates.

Rip Hospitals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Insurance would be going up anyway! Insurance
> companies are never going to drop rates.


Perhaps they will, perhaps they won't. You've just pointed out the number one issue with the healthcare system in this country.

...you can regurgitate articles from the interweb, but I am here to tell you our family plan premium went up 1250.00 a year and the deductible went up $1000.00 because of this ass-hat idea. Your welcome in advance you free loading waste of a vote piece of shit.

Insurance does generally go up each year...but not like this you fool.

Is a flim-flam-sham. They just renamed Catastrophic plans that were out there...$5000.00 deductable, are you fucking kidding me?

Multi-thousand dollar deductible that I didn't have before and I can't see my doctor anymore. Yeah, a real bargain!

Are you this douche, BTW?
Attachments:

Obamacare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is a flim-flam-sham. They just renamed
> Catastrophic plans that were out there...$5000.00
> deductable, are you fucking kidding me?


And the problem is that most of the people that would appeal to can't even scrape together $5.00, let alone $5,000.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Father Smith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mother Jones is nothing but a propaganda
> machine
> > for the Marxist Obama administration. I don't
> > believe a word they print.
>
>
> While I know nothing about Mother Jones, I don't
> utilise the site, I do know that Obama is far from
> a Marxist. You need to crack a book.

I've cracked more books on Marxism than you probably have on your shelves.
I spent a year dealing with them in Vietnam and know first hand what a shitty ideology it really is. Have you read The History of the Russian Revolution by Leon Trotsky? Come back when you've done your homework.
BTW, I was a government major in college and had quite a time with Hippy professors who thought Ho Chi Minh was to be idolized so I've paid my dues there too.

Father Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Father Smith Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Mother Jones is nothing but a propaganda
> > machine
> > > for the Marxist Obama administration. I don't
> > > believe a word they print.
> >
> >
> > While I know nothing about Mother Jones, I
> don't
> > utilise the site, I do know that Obama is far
> from
> > a Marxist. You need to crack a book.
>
> I've cracked more books on Marxism than you
> probably have on your shelves.
> I spent a year dealing with them in Vietnam and
> know first hand what a shitty ideology it really
> is. Have you read The History of the Russian
> Revolution by Leon Trotsky? Come back when you've
> done your homework.
> BTW, I was a government major in college and had
> quite a time with Hippy professors who thought Ho
> Chi Minh was to be idolized so I've paid my dues
> there too.


Apparently not if you think Vietnam is Marxist. You may have been a government major in college but you clearly paid little attention to Marx, if any. As far as your professors are concerned my analysis of them would depend on what they were "idolising" him for.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Father Smith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Father Smith Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Mother Jones is nothing but a propaganda
> > > machine
> > > > for the Marxist Obama administration. I
> don't
> > > > believe a word they print.
> > >
> > >
> > > While I know nothing about Mother Jones, I
> > don't
> > > utilise the site, I do know that Obama is far
> > from
> > > a Marxist. You need to crack a book.
> >
> > I've cracked more books on Marxism than you
> > probably have on your shelves.
> > I spent a year dealing with them in Vietnam and
> > know first hand what a shitty ideology it
> really
> > is. Have you read The History of the Russian
> > Revolution by Leon Trotsky? Come back when
> you've
> > done your homework.
> > BTW, I was a government major in college and
> had
> > quite a time with Hippy professors who thought
> Ho
> > Chi Minh was to be idolized so I've paid my
> dues
> > there too.
>
>
> Apparently not if you think Vietnam is Marxist.
> You may have been a government major in college
> but you clearly paid little attention to Marx, if
> any. As far as your professors are concerned my
> analysis of them would depend on what they were
> "idolising" him for.

Ho was a Stalinist. Stalin revised Marx to fit his own particular situation.
You're saying Ho Chi Minh City isn't controlled by Marxist revisionists?

Your exact word was "Marxist", Stalinism is a perversion of Marxist-Leninism. Marx critiqued Capitalism. If you'd like to discuss "Uncle Ho" I have no problem doing so.

My copays went and premium went up. END OF STORY.

Lots does not mean all, let's stop praising it for the time being.

Obamarama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots does not mean all, let's stop praising it for
> the time being.


Let's stop demonising it for the time being. Like I said earlier, give it a few years and if it's still in the same state a new plan should be drawn up.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your exact word was "Marxist", Stalinism is a
> perversion of Marxist-Leninism. Marx critiqued
> Capitalism. If you'd like to discuss "Uncle Ho" I
> have no problem doing so.

Xa Hoi didn't work out so well in the Vietnamese health care system. Would you care to explain why?

Father Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your exact word was "Marxist", Stalinism is a
> > perversion of Marxist-Leninism. Marx critiqued
> > Capitalism. If you'd like to discuss "Uncle Ho"
> I
> > have no problem doing so.
>
> Xa Hoi didn't work out so well in the Vietnamese
> health care system. Would you care to explain why?


You need to pick a topic and stay on it. This thread is pertaining to the Affordable Care Act, an ignorant statement was made and I called it out and it's now gone from Marxism to Marxist-Leninism to Stalinism, Vietnam, Ho Chi Mihn and now Vietnamese policy.

Father Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your exact word was "Marxist", Stalinism is a
> > perversion of Marxist-Leninism. Marx critiqued
> > Capitalism. If you'd like to discuss "Uncle Ho"
> I
> > have no problem doing so.
>
> Xa Hoi didn't work out so well in the Vietnamese
> health care system. Would you care to explain why?


His google must be slow. He doesn't know what you're talking about and he can't find and digest it fast enough for his usual 4 - 5 minute response. You have won. Accept victory and ignore the troll.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Father Smith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mother Jones is nothing but a propaganda
> machine
> > for the Marxist Obama administration. I don't
> > believe a word they print.
>
>
> While I know nothing about Mother Jones, I don't
> utilise the site, I do know that Obama is far from
> a Marxist. You need to crack a book.

Obama is not a Marxist? Since when? Then why did all the anti American Marxist liberals vote for him? What about all his Marxist rhetoric about the 1% not paying enough? Obaminomics IS Marxism. You are fucking stooooopid!

Hussein Obama - OG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Father Smith Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Mother Jones is nothing but a propaganda
> > machine
> > > for the Marxist Obama administration. I don't
> > > believe a word they print.
> >
> >
> > While I know nothing about Mother Jones, I
> don't
> > utilise the site, I do know that Obama is far
> from
> > a Marxist. You need to crack a book.
>
> Obama is not a Marxist? Since when? Then why did
> all the anti American Marxist liberals vote for
> him? What about all his Marxist rhetoric about the
> 1% not paying enough? Obaminomics IS Marxism. You
> are fucking stooooopid!


Visit a library, your tax dollars pay for them and I'm sure they have literature by Marx. You need to learn what Marxism is before you apply the label.

Uppity Negro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Father Smith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Your exact word was "Marxist", Stalinism is a
> > > perversion of Marxist-Leninism. Marx
> critiqued
> > > Capitalism. If you'd like to discuss "Uncle
> Ho"
> > I
> > > have no problem doing so.
> >
> > Xa Hoi didn't work out so well in the
> Vietnamese
> > health care system. Would you care to explain
> why?
>
>
> His google must be slow. He doesn't know what
> you're talking about and he can't find and digest
> it fast enough for his usual 4 - 5 minute
> response. You have won. Accept victory and
> ignore the troll.

Bullshit. Here's what happened when Marxist revisionists realized
their collective health care system wasn't working. As far as my response time,
believe it or not some of us have responsibilities that need to be attended
to. I participate in several Vietnam vets forums where this sort of
discussion takes place every day.

http://www.globalhealthcheck.org/?p=423

What you can't answer the question? Typical of a liberal. Faced with facts, they run and hide.

"However, in reality, the poor and the exempted groups still find services unavailable without informal fees, known as ‘envelope’ payments, to doctors, nurses, midwives or other health staff. Indeed, a recent national survey shows that 65% of respondents experienced corruption at local health services and 70% of the medical staff interviewed admitted that they have asked patients to pay BRIBES. Due to this endemic corruption, the access of poorer Vietnamese to healthcare services remains limited."

I capitalized BRIBES for emphasis.

Father Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uppity Negro Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Father Smith Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Your exact word was "Marxist", Stalinism is
> a
> > > > perversion of Marxist-Leninism. Marx
> > critiqued
> > > > Capitalism. If you'd like to discuss
> "Uncle
> > Ho"
> > > I
> > > > have no problem doing so.
> > >
> > > Xa Hoi didn't work out so well in the
> > Vietnamese
> > > health care system. Would you care to explain
> > why?
> >
> >
> > His google must be slow. He doesn't know what
> > you're talking about and he can't find and
> digest
> > it fast enough for his usual 4 - 5 minute
> > response. You have won. Accept victory and
> > ignore the troll.
>
> Bullshit. Here's what happened when Marxist
> revisionists realized
> their collective health care system wasn't
> working. As far as my response time,
> believe it or not some of us have responsibilities
> that need to be attended
> to. I participate in several Vietnam vets forums
> where this sort of
> discussion takes place every day.
>
> http://www.globalhealthcheck.org/?p=423


Aaahhh, now they're "Marxist revisionists", that's a shift from your original claim of "Marxists". I would like to ask what this has to do with A. Marxism, B. Obama and C. the Affordable Care Act?

Father Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "However, in reality, the poor and the exempted
> groups still find services unavailable without
> informal fees, known as ‘envelope’ payments,
> to doctors, nurses, midwives or other health
> staff. Indeed, a recent national survey shows that
> 65% of respondents experienced corruption at local
> health services and 70% of the medical staff
> interviewed admitted that they have asked patients
> to pay BRIBES. Due to this endemic corruption, the
> access of poorer Vietnamese to healthcare services
> remains limited."
>
> I capitalized BRIBES for emphasis.

No, not bribes in the third world?! You speak as if bribes don't grease wheels in the first world.

This must be the same phoney that posts as Gerrymanderer2. Blabs, and blabs about the democrats and how great their policies are but doesn't do a damn thing to support any of them because he is full of shit. Then, whenever they are presented with facts are asked to debate it, they run scared.

Mommy, mommy, he's telling the truth. Go tell Obama! Booo, hoooo.

Hussein Obama - OG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This must be the same phoney that posts as
> Gerrymanderer2. Blabs, and blabs about the
> democrats and how great their policies are but
> doesn't do a damn thing to support any of them
> because he is full of shit. Then, whenever they
> are presented with facts are asked to debate it,
> they run scared.
>
> Mommy, mommy, he's telling the truth. Go tell
> Obama! Booo, hoooo.


You are correct. Notice how he tries to tie up grampa Smith above by parsing every word. Just ignore him. He's a troll (most probably FBG trying to act rational).

Uppity Negro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hussein Obama - OG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This must be the same phoney that posts as
> > Gerrymanderer2. Blabs, and blabs about the
> > democrats and how great their policies are but
> > doesn't do a damn thing to support any of them
> > because he is full of shit. Then, whenever they
> > are presented with facts are asked to debate
> it,
> > they run scared.
> >
> > Mommy, mommy, he's telling the truth. Go tell
> > Obama! Booo, hoooo.
>
>
> You are correct. Notice how he tries to tie up
> grampa Smith above by parsing every word. Just
> ignore him. He's a troll (most probably FBG
> trying to act rational).

All I've done is call him out on his topic shifts. The proof lies in his posts above.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uppity Negro Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hussein Obama - OG Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This must be the same phoney that posts as
> > > Gerrymanderer2. Blabs, and blabs about the
> > > democrats and how great their policies are
> but
> > > doesn't do a damn thing to support any of
> them
> > > because he is full of shit. Then, whenever
> they
> > > are presented with facts are asked to debate
> > it,
> > > they run scared.
> > >
> > > Mommy, mommy, he's telling the truth. Go tell
> > > Obama! Booo, hoooo.
> >
> >
> > You are correct. Notice how he tries to tie up
> > grampa Smith above by parsing every word. Just
> > ignore him. He's a troll (most probably FBG
> > trying to act rational).
>
> All I've done is call him out on his topic shifts.
> The proof lies in his posts above.

There have been no topic shifts. You said Obama was not a Marxist. I said how is he not? Obamanomics is COMPLETELY Marxist. Liberals wouldn't have it any other way. He has taken parts of Marxism, the communist manifesto and mein kampf and rolled it all into one. It's what the liberal party has wanted for decades. The administration defines fascism. That is the only reason liberals voted for him. You hate the USA and the Constitution and you elected the person who is working to destroy (change) it.

I wasn't referring to you, however I'll answer your question with question, how IS he a Marxist? You obviously have never read or even dabbled in Marxism and this is evident because you continue to refer to Obama, a bourgeois, center right, minarchist. I'd also like to see evidence of these parts of Marxism, The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf he's either adopted or at least referenced. Liberals are not Marxists and fascism is contradictory to Marxism or any leftist ideology for that matter.

...it a few years? what the fuck kind of reasoning is that? In a fews years I will be in the hole over 5 to 7 grand in the hole because of this bullshit!

Give... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...it a few years? what the fuck kind of
> reasoning is that? In a fews years I will be in
> the hole over 5 to 7 grand in the hole because of
> this bullshit!


You know that how? People gave "trickle down" economics a bash and decades after knowing it doesn't work we continue to be stuck with it. Yes, give it a few years and if the circumstances haven't changed then we change it. Medicare Part B suffered some of the same issues and people gave it time to sort itself out.

Part D*

Give... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...it a few years? what the fuck kind of
> reasoning is that? In a fews years I will be in
> the hole over 5 to 7 grand in the hole because of
> this bullshit!


Exactly. I don't have to wait to find out. Mine will basically double and take me from a 90/10 level of coverage that I now have to a 60/40 bronze level with the same $5K deductible. What a deal! lol And, no, I don't get any fucking subsidies.

He is a Marxist. To a Marxist, the fact that the top 1% earn more income than the bottom 99% is not fair, no matter how they earn it, fairly or not. So it is not fair unless more is taken from the top 1% until they are left only with what they “need,” as in any true communist system. Paying anything less is not their “fair” share. That is the only logical explanation of President Obama’s rhetoric, and it is 100% consistent with his own published background.

Notice that Obama keeps saying that “the rich,” a crass term implying low class social envy, don’t “need” the Bush tax cuts. That is reminiscent of the fundamental Marxist principle, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”

Good tax policy is not guided by “need.” It is guided by what is needed to establish the incentives to maximize economic growth. The middle class, working people and the poor are benefited far more by economic growth than by redistribution. That is shown by the entire 20th century, where the standard of living of American workers increased by more than 7 times, through sustained, rapid economic growth.

But President Obama’s tax policy of increasing all tax rates on savings and investment will work exactly contrary to such economic growth. It is savings and investment which creates jobs and increases productivity and wages. Under capitalism, capital and labor are complementary, not adversarial, exactly contrary to the misunderstanding of Marxists. More capital investment increases the demand for labor, bidding up wages to the level of worker productivity, which is enhanced by the capital investment.

He is a fascist. It all started with FDR. Fascism is another major aspect of FDR’s New Deal, which gave us an untold number of regulations, mandates and enmeshments between business and government. Fascism primarily is State control over privately owned property, wealth and industry. All government mandates and regulation of private economies are examples of fascism. ObamaCare consists of one mandate and regulation after another of private doctor-patient relationships, patient/doctor-insurance company relationships, and a laundry list of medical related industries.

He is very much like Hitler. His policies are the same. Barack Obama is changing times and laws in America, giving himself unprecedented power
never before seen. His ObamaCare bill. now the law of the land, empowers him to create his own private army, forces citizens to abide by unconstitutional laws, and will use the IRS in much the same way that Hitler used his brown shirts to make people get in line behind his policies. Many Americans
will awake to late to the fact that Obama has subverted the United States Constitution, and stolen our precious liberties and freedoms. That's why Obama's followers are encouraged and taught to follow and have faith in Obama the man, and not in our God or in our country. This is exactly the
ploy that Hitler used to great and terrible effect in Nazi Germany.

Democrats have been fascists since the 30's. Don't you even know what your party represents? Of course you do. Nobody is that stupid.

Wrong. Obama has said nothing about taking all that the 1% have, leaving them only with what they need. Marxism is a lot more than income inequality as well, so keep studying. He's 100% that the rich don't nee the tax cuts. The idea that tax cuts spur job creation is Republican myth.

How did that standard of living increase? For a little over half a century it was due to a quality working and middle class income and in the decades after that it was due to growing debt, credit cards and loans.

You also seem to have no idea what fascism is and therefore I'm not going to bother with responding to your ridiculous analogy. I'm not going to bother with your insane comparison of Obama to Hitler. You need to get a grip on reality.

Your analogies also contradict one another.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wrong. Obama has said nothing about taking all
> that the 1% have, leaving them only with what they
> need. Marxism is a lot more than income
> inequality as well, so keep studying. He's 100%
> that the rich don't nee the tax cuts. The idea
> that tax cuts spur job creation is Republican
> myth.
>
> How did that standard of living increase? For a
> little over half a century it was due to a quality
> working and middle class income and in the decades
> after that it was due to growing debt, credit
> cards and loans.
>
> You also seem to have no idea what fascism is and
> therefore I'm not going to bother with responding
> to your ridiculous analogy. I'm not going to
> bother with your insane comparison of Obama to
> Hitler. You need to get a grip on reality.
>
> Your analogies also contradict one another.

Typical of the liberal mind. Again, faced with facts, words out of Hussein Obama's mouth, definitions of fascism, a list of similarities how Hussein Obama has modeled himself after Hitler. All questions you asked me to answer, which I did, factually. You, however, disregard them, because you know they are true but your hatred for the USA and its Constitution is too great. You, like a Nazi (democrat) are all about party first and fuck everybody else. You are a traitor. Facts are facts.

Hussein Obama - OG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wrong. Obama has said nothing about taking all
> > that the 1% have, leaving them only with what
> they
> > need. Marxism is a lot more than income
> > inequality as well, so keep studying. He's
> 100%
> > that the rich don't nee the tax cuts. The idea
> > that tax cuts spur job creation is Republican
> > myth.
> >
> > How did that standard of living increase? For
> a
> > little over half a century it was due to a
> quality
> > working and middle class income and in the
> decades
> > after that it was due to growing debt, credit
> > cards and loans.
> >
> > You also seem to have no idea what fascism is
> and
> > therefore I'm not going to bother with
> responding
> > to your ridiculous analogy. I'm not going to
> > bother with your insane comparison of Obama to
> > Hitler. You need to get a grip on reality.
> >
> > Your analogies also contradict one another.
>
> Typical of the liberal mind. Again, faced with
> facts, words out of Hussein Obama's mouth,
> definitions of fascism, a list of similarities how
> Hussein Obama has modeled himself after Hitler.
> All questions you asked me to answer, which I did,
> factually. You, however, disregard them, because
> you know they are true but your hatred for the USA
> and its Constitution is too great. You, like a
> Nazi (democrat) are all about party first and fuck
> everybody else. You are a traitor. Facts are
> facts.

You need to have your head tested because you're delusional. Your analogies are so incorrect as disconnected with reality that I'm embarrassed for you. Please don't bother responding to my posts because you're clearly living on your own, alternate reality

Okay, now that the lunch breaks are over.....

Obama's history of Marxism. Part 1

"My first meeting with young Barack Obama raised strong feelings and left me with a positive first impression. At the time, I felt I'd persuaded a young man anticipating a Marxist-Leninist revolution to appreciate the more practical alternative of conventional politics as a channel for his socialist views.

I met Obama in December of 1980, a couple of days after Christmas, in Portola Valley -- a small town near Stanford University in Palo Alto, CA. I was a 23 year old second-year graduate student in Cornell's Government Department, and had flown to California to visit a 21 year old girlfriend, Caroline Boss. Boss was a senior at Occidental College, where she had taken a class in the fall of 1980 with political theorist Roger Boesche. She met and befriended Obama in that class."

Full story on the link.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/meeting_young_obama.html

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hussein Obama - OG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Wrong. Obama has said nothing about taking
> all
> > > that the 1% have, leaving them only with what
> > they
> > > need. Marxism is a lot more than income
> > > inequality as well, so keep studying. He's
> > 100%
> > > that the rich don't nee the tax cuts. The
> idea
> > > that tax cuts spur job creation is Republican
> > > myth.
> > >
> > > How did that standard of living increase?
> For
> > a
> > > little over half a century it was due to a
> > quality
> > > working and middle class income and in the
> > decades
> > > after that it was due to growing debt, credit
> > > cards and loans.
> > >
> > > You also seem to have no idea what fascism is
> > and
> > > therefore I'm not going to bother with
> > responding
> > > to your ridiculous analogy. I'm not going to
> > > bother with your insane comparison of Obama
> to
> > > Hitler. You need to get a grip on reality.
> > >
> > > Your analogies also contradict one another.
> >
> > Typical of the liberal mind. Again, faced with
> > facts, words out of Hussein Obama's mouth,
> > definitions of fascism, a list of similarities
> how
> > Hussein Obama has modeled himself after Hitler.
> > All questions you asked me to answer, which I
> did,
> > factually. You, however, disregard them,
> because
> > you know they are true but your hatred for the
> USA
> > and its Constitution is too great. You, like a
> > Nazi (democrat) are all about party first and
> fuck
> > everybody else. You are a traitor. Facts are
> > facts.
>
> You need to have your head tested because you're
> delusional. Your analogies are so incorrect as
> disconnected with reality that I'm embarrassed for
> you. Please don't bother responding to my posts
> because you're clearly living on your own,
> alternate reality

Yep, keep dodging the facts that you requested. Your hatred for the republic makes you a traitor. Why don't you just move to Cuba? It's a communist fascist country. It's the utopia democrats seek.

Christ on a cracker, are you seriously trying to support your accusation with story of an encounter with a nineteen year old Obama?!

Hussein Obama - OG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hussein Obama - OG Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Wrong. Obama has said nothing about taking
> > all
> > > > that the 1% have, leaving them only with
> what
> > > they
> > > > need. Marxism is a lot more than income
> > > > inequality as well, so keep studying. He's
> > > 100%
> > > > that the rich don't nee the tax cuts. The
> > idea
> > > > that tax cuts spur job creation is
> Republican
> > > > myth.
> > > >
> > > > How did that standard of living increase?
> > For
> > > a
> > > > little over half a century it was due to a
> > > quality
> > > > working and middle class income and in the
> > > decades
> > > > after that it was due to growing debt,
> credit
> > > > cards and loans.
> > > >
> > > > You also seem to have no idea what fascism
> is
> > > and
> > > > therefore I'm not going to bother with
> > > responding
> > > > to your ridiculous analogy. I'm not going
> to
> > > > bother with your insane comparison of Obama
> > to
> > > > Hitler. You need to get a grip on reality.
> > > >
> > > > Your analogies also contradict one another.
> > >
> > > Typical of the liberal mind. Again, faced
> with
> > > facts, words out of Hussein Obama's mouth,
> > > definitions of fascism, a list of
> similarities
> > how
> > > Hussein Obama has modeled himself after
> Hitler.
> > > All questions you asked me to answer, which I
> > did,
> > > factually. You, however, disregard them,
> > because
> > > you know they are true but your hatred for
> the
> > USA
> > > and its Constitution is too great. You, like
> a
> > > Nazi (democrat) are all about party first and
> > fuck
> > > everybody else. You are a traitor. Facts are
> > > facts.
> >
> > You need to have your head tested because
> you're
> > delusional. Your analogies are so incorrect as
> > disconnected with reality that I'm embarrassed
> for
> > you. Please don't bother responding to my
> posts
> > because you're clearly living on your own,
> > alternate reality
>
> Yep, keep dodging the facts that you requested.
> Your hatred for the republic makes you a traitor.
> Why don't you just move to Cuba? It's a communist
> fascist country. It's the utopia democrats seek.


You've presented no facts, continue to make assumptions and continue to contradict yourself. The fact that you think Cuba is Communist, fascist or Communist fascist is hilarious. Your knowledge is as shallow as you individuality.

..know that because our insurance went up 2500.00 this fucking year! Times that by 2 or 3 dickwad. Get off Obozos dick and take a breath...your choking.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Christ on a cracker, are you seriously trying to
> support your accusation with story of an encounter
> with a nineteen year old Obama?!

If you read the post you would have noticed I said "Part 1". Watch for
Part 2 tomorrow. :)

BTW, This is the first book I read on Marxism and still have the copy
on my shelf. I went to Google to see if it was still in print and found that it's
now a collectors item. I paid $1.25 + tax in 1972. Wish I'd bought a few hundred copies
now. I love capitalism.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/055312823X/ref=tmm_pap_collectible_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=collectible&sr=&qid=

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Corporations don't create jobs spurred by tax
> breaks.

States and counties offer tax breaks all the time to get a business to locate in their jurisdictions. You are really stupid like most democrats when it comes to the business world. Why do you think Fairfax is as prosperous as it is.

Does that book comprise of any particular works or just an overview of works?

Yes, they do, however those are tax breaks to incentivise relocation and they're often extorted from states and counties. Even the type of tax breaks you are referring to don't create jobs, they relocate them.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, they do, however those are tax breaks to
> incentivise relocation and they're often extorted
> from states and counties. Even the type of tax
> breaks you are referring to don't create jobs,
> they relocate them.


Its useless to try to educate a liberal to the business world. When BMW opens a plant in the U S those become jobs here not in Germany. Or would you rather they locate in another country.

Thick as whale shit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, they do, however those are tax breaks to
> > incentivise relocation and they're often
> extorted
> > from states and counties. Even the type of tax
> > breaks you are referring to don't create jobs,
> > they relocate them.
>
>
> Its useless to try to educate a liberal to the
> business world. When BMW opens a plant in the U S
> those become jobs here not in Germany. Or would
> you rather they locate in another country.


That's not what we're talking about however are you implying tax breaks were awarded to spur the relocation?

Thats how the real world operates my friend. There is a constant fight between Maryland and Virginia for big name firms. While you see it as just a business leaving Maryland for Virginia there are many other businesses that will benefit as well. Like a restaurant that suddenly sees a big increase in customers, customers that pay sales taxes. Real estate values go up due to competition for nearby homes which increase real estate tax revenue. Too many benefits to list here.

The big pushers for a business or government agency to locate here are liberals Mark Warner, Honest Jim Moran and Gerry Connolly. Do you consider them in the pockets of big business?

That may very well be how the world works however that is not job creation. The only thing that created jobs is an increase in demand for a product or service.

To answer your last question if they are providing tax breaks and whatnot to do so then yes, I do.

As an Independent and impartial judge in this pointless debate over almost nothing that won't end up changing anything, I have decided Column No.4 the winner. Column No.4 maintains dignity and reason while logically debating. Mr. Father Time comes in at a close second, however, his "facts" and assumptions question his credibility.

Hussein Obama - OG is a very annoying, idiot troll who really needs to shut his fucking pie hole.

That is all. Carry on.

The Impartial Judicator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As an Independent and impartial judge in this
> pointless debate over almost nothing that won't
> end up changing anything, I have decided Column
> No.4 the winner. Column No.4 maintains dignity and
> reason while logically debating. Mr. Father Time
> comes in at a close second, however, his "facts"
> and assumptions question his credibility.
>
.
>
> That is all. Carry on.


In other words, he ignores all facts presented and keeps saying the same thing over and over. You are overruled dickhead. I like the way you whine when you get all butthurt. Just like all pussies do.

Case closed


Attachments:

I guess there were too many words in those facts about the truth behind liberals.
I'll just post a picture for them to understand how Obamascare is economically killing the USA. Inusrance premiums are increasing in 41 states. How does that save money?
Attachments:

Appellate Judicator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> In other words, he ignores all facts presented and
> keeps saying the same thing over and over. You
> are overruled dickhead. I like the way you whine
> when you get all butthurt. Just like all pussies
> do.
>
> Case closed
>
>


NO.

You are dismissed.

Begone.

The truth will set you free.
Attachments:

Wrong. Hitler sought to redefine what Socialism was, to "take back" Socialism from the Socialists. They omit that in right wing historical revisionism.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wrong. Hitler sought to redefine what Socialism
> was, to "take back" Socialism from the Socialists.
> They omit that in right wing historical
> revisionism.

It sounds like socialism.... it's socialism.

bcW4G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wrong. Hitler sought to redefine what
> Socialism
> > was, to "take back" Socialism from the
> Socialists.
> > They omit that in right wing historical
> > revisionism.
>
> It sounds like socialism.... it's socialism.


Hitlers definition of Socialism. As I pointed out earlier, he aim to rewrite the definition.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does that book comprise of any particular works or
> just an overview of works?
>
> Yes, they do, however those are tax breaks to
> incentivise relocation and they're often extorted
> from states and counties. Even the type of tax
> breaks you are referring to don't create jobs,
> they relocate them.

The book contains writings of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.
It was required reading in one of my government courses. You might
enjoy reading it and there are other "non-collector" editions available.

Also, you might try Googling Bill Ayers + Marxist. You will get plenty
of hits.

If you really want to delve into Obama's Marxist upbringing check out
his parents. They were both Marxist "sympathizers" and it looks like
they indoctrinated him well.

I may give it a bash. I'm currently busy reading a couple of other books at the moment. Simply because Obamas parents were Marxist sympathisers and he believed in Marxism, as the story implies, when he was in college that doesn't make him a Marxist now. By that reasoning Pope John Paul II was a fascist anti-Semite.

Republicans thing you shouldn't study anything but the bible and the almighty dollar.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Republicans thing you shouldn't study anything but
> the bible and the almighty dollar.

Where is Fruppie when we need him?

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wonder who is paying for all these "savings"
> > Could it be the taxpayers?
>
>
> The same ones that pay for corporate tax breaks?


No one 'pays' for a tax break. It means someone doesn't pay.

O. Bama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I wonder who is paying for all these
> "savings"
> > > Could it be the taxpayers?
> >
> >
> > The same ones that pay for corporate tax
> breaks?
>
>
> No one 'pays' for a tax break. It means someone
> doesn't pay.

Liberals believe all money is the governments and them letting you keep any of it is doing you a favor. Thats why they always say theyre paying for a tax break like they lost something that was rightfully theirs.

O. Bama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I wonder who is paying for all these
> "savings"
> > > Could it be the taxpayers?
> >
> >
> > The same ones that pay for corporate tax
> breaks?
>
>
> No one 'pays' for a tax break. It means someone
> doesn't pay.


Wrong, those lost funds have to be replaced and that is typically done through tax increases.

Liberals are the only people who think you should be paid for doing nothing i.e. government worker or welfare recipient.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> O. Bama Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Mo Free Barry Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I wonder who is paying for all these
> > "savings"
> > > > Could it be the taxpayers?
> > >
> > >
> > > The same ones that pay for corporate tax
> > breaks?
> >
> >
> > No one 'pays' for a tax break. It means someone
> > doesn't pay.
>
>
> Wrong, those lost funds have to be replaced and
> that is typically done through tax increases.



How can you lose what you never had?

Lets say I'm selling you a car for $5000.00. You offer me $4000 and I take it. I didn't lose $1000, I never had it!!!!! Obviously the car wasn't worth $5000.

If you live in a particular state and your governor grants a $500k tax break for a company to move there that's $500k that's not going into the coffers and that, nine times out of ten, is recouped via tax increases on the citisens, whether it be income tax, sales tax, etc.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you live in a particular state and your
> governor grants a $500k tax break for a company to
> move there that's $500k that's not going into the
> coffers and that, nine times out of ten, is
> recouped via tax increases on the citisens,
> whether it be income tax, sales tax, etc.


OK, if I needed $5000 to keep me in the life style I am accustom to but only got $4000 from selling my car...well maybe I should cut back on my spending. I know it blows your mind doesn't it?

OBuma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you live in a particular state and your
> > governor grants a $500k tax break for a company
> to
> > move there that's $500k that's not going into
> the
> > coffers and that, nine times out of ten, is
> > recouped via tax increases on the citisens,
> > whether it be income tax, sales tax, etc.
>
>
> OK, if I needed $5000 to keep me in the life style
> I am accustom to but only got $4000 from selling
> my car...well maybe I should cut back on my
> spending. I know it blows your mind doesn't it?

No, not really, because what you're referring to has nothing to do with the initial discussion. What you're referring to is basic living within your means and I agree with that, however there is a whole section of the US economy that is supported taking on debt. That shift from making a decent wage and living within your means to instead taking on debt is a direct result of declining wages. What the initial discussion pertained to was corporate tax breaks. I'm open to discussing either with you, if you like.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OBuma Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If you live in a particular state and your
> > > governor grants a $500k tax break for a
> company
> > to
> > > move there that's $500k that's not going into
> > the
> > > coffers and that, nine times out of ten, is
> > > recouped via tax increases on the citisens,
> > > whether it be income tax, sales tax, etc.
> >
> >
> > OK, if I needed $5000 to keep me in the life
> style
> > I am accustom to but only got $4000 from
> selling
> > my car...well maybe I should cut back on my
> > spending. I know it blows your mind doesn't it?
>
> No, not really, because what you're referring to
> has nothing to do with the initial discussion.
> What you're referring to is basic living within
> your means and I agree with that, however there is
> a whole section of the US economy that is
> supported taking on debt. That shift from making
> a decent wage and living within your means to
> instead taking on debt is a direct result of
> declining wages. What the initial discussion
> pertained to was corporate tax breaks. I'm open
> to discussing either with you, if you like.

Welllll, really the original compaint was that tax payers had to pay more because of Corp tax breaks. I said you didn't have the tax money to begin with and suggested you spend less not tax others or go into more debt to make up for it. Its all the same problem.

Gotta roll, enjoy the weekend.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you live in a particular state and your
> governor grants a $500k tax break for a company to
> move there that's $500k that's not going into the
> coffers and that, nine times out of ten, is
> recouped via tax increases on the citisens,
> whether it be income tax, sales tax, etc.


You left out the part how if the company is given 5k tax break to move there, theyre bringing increased tax revenue of much much more than that.

Theres only a 5k loss with magically liberal math.

In the real world that state sees a massive tax revenue INCREASE from employees coming to the state and the other taxes the business will be paying.

Your theory of other people having to pick up the slack it complete bs.

Just to make it even clearer since I know that went over your head...


If Im the Governor and I tell a business currently paying 100k in taxes Ill give them a 20 percent break to move to my state and they do, thats 80k the state would not have had without the move. Thats just from the business alone, not counting any employees who are now moving to my state paying taxes ect.

You didnt lose 20k, you gained 80k. You dont lose money giving a break to entice a business to move, you gain it period.

You forget the fact that these companies, when they move, negotiate lower long term tax rates. Any taxes made from workers is negated by the tax increase imposed on them to make up for the tax break. Now down the line these corporations approach the state and give them an ultimatum that they either award the corporation a tax break, lower tax rate, etc. or they will move to another state, once that is agreed upon the corporation approaches the employees and give them and ultimatum that they either take a wage cut, benefits cut, etc. or they'll move to another state. Both state and worker, nine times out of ten, take the cut because they don't want to lose their jobs and jobs in general and this cycle continues. Surface mathematics gives the illusion that the state is making a killing however in the long run the corporation makes the killing.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You forget the fact that these companies, when
> they move, negotiate lower long term tax rates.
> Any taxes made from workers is negated by the tax
> increase imposed on them to make up for the tax
> break. Now down the line these corporations
> approach the state and give them an ultimatum that
> they either award the corporation a tax break,
> lower tax rate, etc. or they will move to another
> state, once that is agreed upon the corporation
> approaches the employees and give them and
> ultimatum that they either take a wage cut,
> benefits cut, etc. or they'll move to another
> state. Both state and worker, nine times out of
> ten, take the cut because they don't want to lose
> their jobs and jobs in general and this cycle
> continues. Surface mathematics gives the illusion
> that the state is making a killing however in the
> long run the corporation makes the killing.

Get a job.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You forget the fact that these companies, when
> they move, negotiate lower long term tax rates.
> Any taxes made from workers is negated by the tax
> increase imposed on them to make up for the tax
> break. Now down the line these corporations
> approach the state and give them an ultimatum that
> they either award the corporation a tax break,
> lower tax rate, etc. or they will move to another
> state, once that is agreed upon the corporation
> approaches the employees and give them and
> ultimatum that they either take a wage cut,
> benefits cut, etc. or they'll move to another
> state. Both state and worker, nine times out of
> ten, take the cut because they don't want to lose
> their jobs and jobs in general and this cycle
> continues. Surface mathematics gives the illusion
> that the state is making a killing however in the
> long run the corporation makes the killing.


Clearly that all went over your head. Not surprising you miss a lot.

So your solution is to tell them you wont give them anything and theyll go to another state and youll get nothing from it. Great plan.

Even your pretzel logic doesnt work. Youre gaining money having them relocate not losing it, period.

It really is that simple. Theres nothing to make up for, you now have more coming in that you would have without giving the break.

Its simple mathematics.

Exactly, SIMPLE mathematics, that's why big business makes a killing of the aforementioned tactic on a daily basis. Who's producing for or running the counties, states and country, workers the representatives of the counties, states and country or big business? Your logic is all fine and well if you believe in corporatism.