You can't even keep count anymore of the daily toll this man is taking on America.......

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/22/obamas-war-on-coal-hits-your-electric-bill/print#ixzz1vdALNXOI

At least we can thank him for the lower gas prices this week, right? Since it was his fault when they went up to George Bush levels, he gets full credit for the reduction, I am sure.
Tyr using a credible source like MSNBC next time.

+1 $hell Oil

Don't forget +6% GDP growth from mid 2009-2011 compared to Bush's -9% from 2008-2009. How are those cheesy grits?

$hell Oil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At least we can thank him for the lower gas prices
> this week, right? Since it was his fault when they
> went up to George Bush levels, he gets full credit
> for the reduction, I am sure.
> Tyr using a credible source like MSNBC next time.


This is either a TROLL or weseal

Good. Coal is filthy.

NOVAman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> +1 $hell Oil
>
> Don't forget +6% GDP growth from mid 2009-2011
> compared to Bush's -9% from 2008-2009. How are
> those cheesy grits?


Dumb Dems with selective facts again. You guys never get tired of that one huh? lol

Why'd you pick only 2008 - 2009?
How much of GDP was government spending under Obama?

At least try to be a little less obvious with your skewed stats. And your 6% is overstated.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth

$hell Oil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At least we can thank him for the lower gas prices
> this week, right? Since it was his fault when they
> went up to George Bush levels, he gets full credit
> for the reduction, I am sure.
> Tyr using a credible source like MSNBC next time.


MSNBC is a credible source? What the fuck are you smoking homey?

____________________________________________________________________________________________

I say "fuck" a lot...

$hell Oil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At least we can thank him for the lower gas prices
> this week, right? Since it was his fault when they
> went up to George Bush levels, he gets full credit
> for the reduction, I am sure.
> Tyr using a credible source like MSNBC next time.

lol really? MSNBC came out and said they are news for the left. Idiot.

We need to get off coal all together. Remember the smog clouds that use hang over Fairfax county when the wind blew the right direction from WV.

I'm glad things aren't as bad as years ago when all the smog from coal burning steel mills and West Virginia power plants would drift into Fairfax county.

ClaudeMonet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need to get off coal all together. Remember
> the smog clouds that use hang over Fairfax county
> when the wind blew the right direction from WV.
>
> I'm glad things aren't as bad as years ago when
> all the smog from coal burning steel mills and
> West Virginia power plants would drift into
> Fairfax county.

Maybe you DON'T UNDERSTAND that in 2012 TECHNOLOGY is MUCH better than it was...

Clean Coal Technology

Clean coal technology refers to the application of advanced technology to reduce the negative effects of coal use on the environment. It involves the cleaning of coal and the reduction of harmful emissions. One effective coal cleaning method is called coal washing. This method removes harmful substances by using a liquid to separate impurities from the coal. Systems that are applied to minimize emissions include the flue gas desulfurization system, electrostatic precipitator, low nitrogen oxide burner, and gasification. Presently, the US Department of Energy is developing a coal-based power plant that is 90% emission-free, and the project is expected to be completed in the year 2012.

Don't care.

Coal is harmful to the environment, even if it's not as bad as it once was. Dumping 10 million tons of bad stuff in the atmosphere is better than dumping 100 million tons, but dumping 1 million is better, and 1,000 is better than that.

Coal is also not going to last forever. Starting to move away from it is a good thing.

I'm not in favor of abandoning it tomorrow, but moving in the other direction is a Good Thing.

Give a better option...

Wind? - This has been proven to have environmental warming and takes TONS of land - and looks awfull.

Nuclear - ummmm..... Fukishima, 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl.... need I say more...

Natural Gas? Perhaps...

Solar? Do you think we have that amount of land to allocate for this???/

So choices are limited... If you like your power bill going up 10x where it is now - then support the others... But, the U.S. has the MOST reserves of Coal on Earth... Therefore, it is cheap...

Or.....

Do without power

Or....

Pay 10x what you pay now...

Yes coal is dirty and bad for the environment.
BUT It is cheap and we have a lot of it here in the US.

The environmentalists block any effort to build or improve nuclear power plants and so the only other way to generate the huge amounts of electricity we use cheaply is to use coal.

Yes people will say we could use renewable energy like wind power or hydroelectric power, but there arent any big rivers around here and wind power cant provide the gigawatts of power we need.

Thus coal is the interim solution. Raising the price of it won't help anybody in the present.

>
> Thus coal is the interim solution. Raising the
> price of it won't help anybody in the present.


Agreed..

It's kind of like saying "if we build a Toll Road then less people will drive"... No.... it's more like "if we tax you then we can get MORE control and build MORE of what WE like -- and stop YOU from what you really want - by lawsuits"....

Kind of like Monsanto's GMO's...

We need coal burning power plants to feed the trees because of photosynthesis and shit bro!

infowars Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Maybe you DON'T UNDERSTAND that in 2012 TECHNOLOGY
> is MUCH better than it was...
>
> Clean Coal Technology
>
> Clean coal technology refers to the application of
> advanced technology to reduce the negative effects
> of coal use on the environment. It involves the
> cleaning of coal and the reduction of harmful
> emissions. One effective coal cleaning method is
> called coal washing. This method removes harmful
> substances by using a liquid to separate
> impurities from the coal. Systems that are applied
> to minimize emissions include the flue gas
> desulfurization system, electrostatic
> precipitator, low nitrogen oxide burner, and
> gasification. Presently, the US Department of
> Energy is developing a coal-based power plant that
> is 90% emission-free, and the project is expected
> to be completed in the year 2012.


Well. until the Koch funded GOP guts the EPA of course

Would you be prepared to live next to a mountain top removal coal mine with its poisoned streams or a coal fired power station?

I guess that's just for poor people

koch powered coal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Well. until the Koch funded GOP guts the EPA of
> course
>
> Would you be prepared to live next to a mountain
> top removal coal mine with its poisoned streams or
> a coal fired power station?
>
> I guess that's just for poor people

most states if not all already have their own EPA's to make that determination. How did this country ever survive its first 200 years with out a Fed EPA?

Meanwhile, the (convicted felon) Soros-funded Democratic Party pumps money into Brazil to help them drill for oil (immediately after Soros bought an $811 million stake in Petrobras, Brazil's state-controlled oil company).

While Obama blocks Keystone XL pipeline (killing 20,000 jobs), and oil production in Ohio (killing 200,000 jobs).

http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/obama-administration-blocks-oil-production-in-ohio-200000-jobs-lost/

Gotta love conservatives. None of you are smart enough to realize that paying less for energy now costs you more in health care and environmental damage in the future.

Same way it costs less to maintain a car than to fix it when it completely breaks down.

Don't worry your pretty little heads about it though. The end times are near, right?

Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gotta love conservatives. None of you are smart
> enough to realize that paying less for energy now
> costs you more in health care and environmental
> damage in the future.
>
> Same way it costs less to maintain a car than to
> fix it when it completely breaks down.
>
> Don't worry your pretty little heads about it
> though. The end times are near, right?

Wow, stereotype much? You think this actually helps anything?

soros power oil drilling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile, the (convicted felon) Soros-funded

>
> http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/obam
> a-administration-blocks-oil-production-in-ohio-200
> 000-jobs-lost/

winteryknight "…integrating Christian faith and knowledge in the public square"

...snort!

objecting to environmental impact studies - right wing christians, guardians of the natural world

How many billions of dollars are caused by automobiles, alcohol, fast food, smoking, blah, blah, blah.

Everything drives up the costs of somthing... it doesn't matter what it is.

Coal fire plants are one of the best resources of energy we currently have... until there is a more cost effective way to produce energy it will continue to be.

The good liberals would rather let poor people freeze to death in the winter.

Decrease the surplus population, right?

Every eco bulb that you throw away puts more mercury into the environment then burning a train car load of coal. So, if you are so concerned over Global Warming and pollution, then, don't use anything that uses energy, go live in a tent, and use your body heat to stay warm in cold weather.

soros power oil drilling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile, the (convicted felon) Soros-funded
> Democratic Party pumps money into Brazil to help
> them drill for oil (immediately after Soros bought
> an $811 million stake in Petrobras, Brazil's
> state-controlled oil company).
>
> While Obama blocks Keystone XL pipeline (killing
> 20,000 jobs), and oil production in Ohio (killing
> 200,000 jobs).
>
> http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/obam
> a-administration-blocks-oil-production-in-ohio-200
> 000-jobs-lost/


BREAKING!!!!
Oil prices falling because of U.S. production, Canada imports:

Analysts said that a crude-oil glut from increasing domestic production and imports from Canada helped drive U.S. oil prices below $100. They added that a change in the flow of a key U.S. oil pipeline that begins this week could help reduce retail gasoline prices.

The U.S. Energy Department says that crude oil inventories at a storage hub in Cushing, Okla., reached a record 45.1 million barrels on May 11, breaking the old record of 41.9 million barrels set in early April 2011

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-oil-glut-20120517,0,3326267.story

A boom in natural gas drilling in the U.S. has, indeed, led to dramatically lower prices across the board as supplies hold near historic highs. Yet the most aggressive oil drilling in the country in nearly a decade has not produced the same result, even as crude oil inventories hit a 21-year high. While oil recently slipped below $100 a barrel – a dip Wall Street has already branded as temporary – it remains at the upper end of its historic range.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/23/us-bakerhughes-rigcount-idUSBRE84M0YS20120523

US Achieving Energy Independence:

LONDON, May 22 (Reuters) - Europe is facing a glut of high quality crude oil grades, only a year after war in Libya created a serious shortage, as the continent's demand falls and the United States cuts imports due to greater availability of domestic supply.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/23/europe-oil-idUSL5E8GN2I520120523

Keystone XL Pipeline Will Raise U.S. Gasoline Prices, Group Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-22/keystone-xl-pipeline-will-raise-u-s-gasoline-prices-group-says.html

What Is really going on Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keystone XL Pipeline Will Raise U.S. Gasoline
> Prices, Group Says


What group? The same environmental wackos who tried to stop the Keystone pipeline in the first place - the National Resources Defense Council.

Lol. What a joke.

Truth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What Is really going on Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Keystone XL Pipeline Will Raise U.S. Gasoline
> > Prices, Group Says
>
>
> What group? The same environmental wackos who
> tried to stop the Keystone pipeline in the first
> place - the National Resources Defense Council.
>
> Lol. What a joke.

True, you should take with it a gain of salt. But they do make a point about ULSD taking away capacity from gasoline.

Crude oil is falling because risk assets are falling in conjunction with the European debt crisis and in anticipation of the end of Operation Twist. US stocks and bonds are being somewhat propped, relative to other assets. The SPX should be around 1150 if it was still tracking the DAX. On the other hand, safe havens often fall last and hardest.

 
Attachments:

I hope the next war is the War on Wars, where politicians combat the frivolous use of the word "war" to describe every issue.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes coal is dirty and bad for the environment.
> BUT It is cheap and we have a lot of it here in
> the US.

Because if it's cheap and we have a lot it's a good source of energy?

Who thinks this way?

Dumping toxic waste into streams is cheap too. But it's not good in the long term for the US.

tell ol' bill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many billions of dollars are caused by
> automobiles, alcohol, fast food, smoking, blah,
> blah, blah.
>
> Everything drives up the costs of somthing... it
> doesn't matter what it is.
>
> Coal fire plants are one of the best resources of
> energy we currently have... until there is a more
> cost effective way to produce energy it will
> continue to be.
>
> The good liberals would rather let poor people
> freeze to death in the winter.
>
> Decrease the surplus population, right?

Wow. Stereotype much? Do you think this actually helps anything?

The "externalized costs" argument regarding "the real" cost of coal is analogous to dubious equal-pay-for-equal work arguments, which purport to establish salary discrepancies while comparing unlike jobs.

The "externalized costs" are creatively cherry-picked to make coal look bad.

The same creative cherry-picking could make any energy source look bad.

Further, the "externalized costs" reports were prepared by global warming alarmists at the height of the now thankfully fading global warming hysteria.

Kardinal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. Stereotype much? Do you think this actually
> helps anything?


Yes, no matter how much it may hurt and annoy an anti-coal fanatic such as yourself, it does help to get the truth out there.

ClaudeMonet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need to get off coal all together. Remember
> the smog clouds that use hang over Fairfax county
> when the wind blew the right direction from WV.
>
> I'm glad things aren't as bad as years ago when
> all the smog from coal burning steel mills and
> West Virginia power plants would drift into
> Fairfax county.


Can't remember something that never happened.

soros power oil drilling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile, the (convicted felon) Soros-funded
> Democratic Party pumps money into Brazil to help
> them drill for oil (immediately after Soros bought
> an $811 million stake in Petrobras, Brazil's
> state-controlled oil company).
>
> While Obama blocks Keystone XL pipeline (killing
> 20,000 jobs), and oil production in Ohio (killing
> 200,000 jobs).
>
> http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/obam
> a-administration-blocks-oil-production-in-ohio-200
> 000-jobs-lost/

Lawlz, like the shitty pipeline they were willing to build was going to solve all of our energy problems by exporting the oil to other markets from Canada through the US. The amount of TEMPORARY JOBS created to build this pos was estimated to be between 3,500 and 4,200 positions, not 20,000. Even your own news sources agrees.Derp.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/18/six-reasons-keystone-xl-was-bad-deal-all-along/

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ClaudeMonet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We need to get off coal all together. Remember
> > the smog clouds that use hang over Fairfax
> county
> > when the wind blew the right direction from WV.
> >
> > I'm glad things aren't as bad as years ago when
> > all the smog from coal burning steel mills and
> > West Virginia power plants would drift into
> > Fairfax county.
>
>
> Can't remember something that never happened.

LOL! Agree. WTF?

Quote

Every eco bulb that you throw away puts more mercury into the environment then burning a train car load of coal. So, if you are so concerned over Global Warming and pollution, then, don't use anything that uses energy, go live in a tent, and use your body heat to stay warm in cold weather.

that's just flat out 100% dead wrong.

you release FAR more mercury into the environment by mining for coal to power a comparable number of incandescents.

there are some knowable facts out there if you take a minute and try to learn them.

Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every eco bulb that you throw away puts more
> mercury into the environment then burning a train
> car load of coal. So, if you are so concerned over
> Global Warming and pollution, then, don't use
> anything that uses energy, go live in a tent, and
> use your body heat to stay warm in cold weather.
>
> that's just flat out 100% dead wrong.
>
> you release FAR more mercury into the environment
> by mining for coal to power a comparable number of
> incandescents.
>
> there are some knowable facts out there if you
> take a minute and try to learn them.


Speaking of knowable facts, perhaps you should try a course in reading comprehension.

There was no mention of "mining coal" only "burning a trainload of coal."

I might also suggest a course in logic. Pay special attention to the review of fallacies.

Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every eco bulb that you throw away puts more
> mercury into the environment then burning a train
> car load of coal. So, if you are so concerned over
> Global Warming and pollution, then, don't use
> anything that uses energy, go live in a tent, and
> use your body heat to stay warm in cold weather.
>
> that's just flat out 100% dead wrong.
>
> you release FAR more mercury into the environment
> by mining for coal to power a comparable number of
> incandescents.
>
> there are some knowable facts out there if you
> take a minute and try to learn them.

Agreed. The mining of coal and burning of coal do WAY more damage than an ECO bulb.

Especially if the coal mining is done by strip mining.

You can't fight BIG COAL!!!! Never forget Matewan, West Virginia, May 19, 1920.

NO UNIONS IN COAL MINES FOR COAL MINERS!

Blessed are the murderous.

Clean coal air fresheners will be cheaper because we have more of it!

Fucking liberals will never understand economics!

Quote

There was no mention of "mining coal" only "burning a trainload of coal."

ok, so where do you get your coal? do you pull it out of your ass like the rest of your politics?

Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was no mention of "mining coal" only
> "burning a trainload of coal."
>
> ok, so where do you get your coal? do you pull it
> out of your ass like the rest of your politics?



Where I get my coal is irrelevant to the comparison that was made. Again check out NOVA and see if they have a basic class in logic. No need to get your panties in a wad because I made you look stupid.

logically speaking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curmudgeon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There was no mention of "mining coal" only
> > "burning a trainload of coal."
> >
> > ok, so where do you get your coal? do you pull
> it
> > out of your ass like the rest of your politics?
>
>
>
> Where I get my coal is irrelevant to the
> comparison that was made. Again check out NOVA
> and see if they have a basic class in logic. No
> need to get your panties in a wad because I made
> you look stupid.

You're being an ass about it, but you're right. Not necessarily about there being less mercury in a train car full of coal than in a single eco bulb, but the bulbs contain more mercury than the coal burned to power the bulbs.

http://www.energyrace.com/commentary/more_on_mercury_coal_and_cfls_updated/

They break down the math, but here's the summary:

CFL Summary (150 million CFLs)
1,653 pounds of mercury in the bulbs.
606 pounds of mercury from the electricity to run them.
2,259 pounds of total mercury (assuming 0% CFL recycling)

I can't find anything about the use of mercury in the actual mining of coal.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

It's not used to mine -- it's a byproduct of mining. Also on the point of how much is released by burning extra coal to power incandescents, you're still wrong.
http://m.mnn.com/earth-matters/translating-uncle-sam/stories/cfl-vs-incandescent-battle-of-the-bulb