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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Voltaire
()
Date: August 27, 2013 12:18PM
Cramer is Mad Money Over Tesla Electric Cars
The "Mad Money" host argued Tesla's "epic run" began with its May 8 earnings report and conference call. At that time, Tesla's stock broke out from $55 to $88 a share in just a few days.
So what happened?
1. Tesla defied Wall Street's expectations for a loss and actually reported a $15 million profit, Cramer said.
2. While some market observers thought Tesla had little to no customers, the automaker said it actually exceeded its own production targets to meet increased demand. Tesla had to produce 500 more cars that quarter on top of the 5,000 they'd initially planned to build, and they now intend to make 21,000 cars this year, Cramer noted.
3. Some market observers said Tesla was spending more on its vehicles, but earning less. As it turned out, though, Tesla said it was spending less and earning more, Cramer said. In turn, gross margins—profits after the cost of sales—improved from 8 to 17 percent, exceeding expectations.
4. Though the Street thought the labor and raw material costs were getting to Tesla, the company actually greatly reduced the amount of time it takes to construct its vehicles and saw material costs fall by 20 percent, Cramer said.
5. Increased demand drove Tesla to expand its 34 stores by nearly 50 percent by end year, Cramer said.
6. Tesla said 25 percent of test drives resulted in a purchase, a number that shocked the Street and instilled confidence that more sales could be on the way, Cramer said.
7. The automaker rolled out financing for its vehicles, which made its product far more accessible to the greater public rather than to the few who could afford its cars outright, Cramer said.
8. Tesla has only sold in the North America market, but CEO Elon Musk said there is demand for its vehicles in Asia and Europe.
9. The company will spend another $200 million to build out its production by using its cash on hand, Cramer said.
10. Management said there's no plans for a stock offering, either, which wasn't welcome news to the many shorts in the stock, Cramer suggested.
So what's the bottom line?
" Tesla's market cap got to $20 billion because there simply wasn't enough stock to go around to handle a brand new profitable growth story with no cash needs and a level of demand that can't be met even as gross margins are going higher," Cramer said. "Put simply, that's too much good for the market to ignore and it's how Tesla nearly quintupled, something virtually any other stock with those same characteristics would most likely do as well."
The "Mad Money" host argued Tesla's "epic run" began with its May 8 earnings report and conference call. At that time, Tesla's stock broke out from $55 to $88 a share in just a few days.
So what happened?
1. Tesla defied Wall Street's expectations for a loss and actually reported a $15 million profit, Cramer said.
2. While some market observers thought Tesla had little to no customers, the automaker said it actually exceeded its own production targets to meet increased demand. Tesla had to produce 500 more cars that quarter on top of the 5,000 they'd initially planned to build, and they now intend to make 21,000 cars this year, Cramer noted.
3. Some market observers said Tesla was spending more on its vehicles, but earning less. As it turned out, though, Tesla said it was spending less and earning more, Cramer said. In turn, gross margins—profits after the cost of sales—improved from 8 to 17 percent, exceeding expectations.
4. Though the Street thought the labor and raw material costs were getting to Tesla, the company actually greatly reduced the amount of time it takes to construct its vehicles and saw material costs fall by 20 percent, Cramer said.
5. Increased demand drove Tesla to expand its 34 stores by nearly 50 percent by end year, Cramer said.
6. Tesla said 25 percent of test drives resulted in a purchase, a number that shocked the Street and instilled confidence that more sales could be on the way, Cramer said.
7. The automaker rolled out financing for its vehicles, which made its product far more accessible to the greater public rather than to the few who could afford its cars outright, Cramer said.
8. Tesla has only sold in the North America market, but CEO Elon Musk said there is demand for its vehicles in Asia and Europe.
9. The company will spend another $200 million to build out its production by using its cash on hand, Cramer said.
10. Management said there's no plans for a stock offering, either, which wasn't welcome news to the many shorts in the stock, Cramer suggested.
So what's the bottom line?
" Tesla's market cap got to $20 billion because there simply wasn't enough stock to go around to handle a brand new profitable growth story with no cash needs and a level of demand that can't be met even as gross margins are going higher," Cramer said. "Put simply, that's too much good for the market to ignore and it's how Tesla nearly quintupled, something virtually any other stock with those same characteristics would most likely do as well."
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Jsfoijsef.j
()
Date: August 27, 2013 02:17PM
Solyndra. You can't keep the wins and write off the losses douche nozzle.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Wow, that's really interesting
()
Date: August 27, 2013 02:27PM
.
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
FUNdamental
()
Date: August 27, 2013 04:52PM
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Nicolia
()
Date: August 27, 2013 05:12PM
Tesla is going to be the next Chrysler or GM. They have a solid plan. Their cars a serious luxury and they are not going away.
The technology is now here that not only makes the electric car affordable, but better than a gas power car.
You'll slowly see gas powered cars fade away as Tesla rev's up and more startup electric car companies start to rip Tesla's technology.
The same as when steam cars went out and gas car evolved.
The technology is now here that not only makes the electric car affordable, but better than a gas power car.
You'll slowly see gas powered cars fade away as Tesla rev's up and more startup electric car companies start to rip Tesla's technology.
The same as when steam cars went out and gas car evolved.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Liberal Logic 27
()
Date: August 27, 2013 05:28PM
Jim Cramer endorsing you is generally a kiss of death.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Hype
()
Date: August 27, 2013 05:38PM
Tesla's boasts about its safety test doubted
Brent Snavely, Detroit Free Press 11:03 a.m. EDT August 23, 2013
Debate about Tesla's claims about its electric car's safety score and performance in a roof crush test continued to swirl days after the automaker made its claims.
Most automakers are thrilled to receive a 5-Star safety rating from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and like to brag about them because it is the highest rating.
But billionaire and Tesla co-founder Elon Musk -- not known for holding back -- went further with claims about his car.
"Model S achieves best safety rating of any car ever tested by US govt," Musk tweeted on Monday.
And his electric car maker sent out a press release Monday boasting that the Tesla S "set a new record for the lowest likelihood of injury to occupants," with a combined score of 5.4 stars and that its score exceeded the safety score of all SUVs and minivans.
That braggadocio prompted NHTSA to issue a statement five stars is its highest score -- there is no 5.4 -- and that it does not rank vehicles. A vehicle gets five stars or it doesn't.
"The driving public should know that NHTSA does not rate vehicles beyond 5 stars and does not rank or order vehicles within the star rating categories," the agency said in a statement this week.
NHTSA did not specifically call out Tesla in its statement but said automakers should follow its guidelines when the companies make claims about the safety results.
Jim Hall, managing director of 2953 Analytics in Birmingham, said Tesla is on thin ice with its claims.
"You don't say what the government doesn't say using government data," Hall said. "(NHTSA) doesn't rate vehicles above than five, and somebody at Tesla should have caught that."
The Model S is an all-electric luxury sedan car with an EPA-rated range of 265 miles with an 85 kWh battery on a full charge. A base model with a 60 kWh battery and an EPA-rated range of 208 miles starts at $72,070. Buyers may qualify (based on income) for a $7,500 federal tax credit and additional state electric car subsidies.
Tesla's release also said that during validation of Model S roof crush protection at an independent commercial site, a testing machine failed after it was unable to crush the roof. Musk also boasted about the roof crush test in an interview on "CBS This Morning" on Wednesday.
"When we did the roof crush test, it got to four times the weight of the car, and then the machine broke," Musk told CBS. "So, literally the thing that is supposed to crush the car broke instead of the car."
The company has not identified, however, who conducted that roof testing.Tesla also declined to respond to questions about the machine used for the crush test or the type of testing that was done.
Brent Snavely, Detroit Free Press 11:03 a.m. EDT August 23, 2013
Debate about Tesla's claims about its electric car's safety score and performance in a roof crush test continued to swirl days after the automaker made its claims.
Most automakers are thrilled to receive a 5-Star safety rating from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and like to brag about them because it is the highest rating.
But billionaire and Tesla co-founder Elon Musk -- not known for holding back -- went further with claims about his car.
"Model S achieves best safety rating of any car ever tested by US govt," Musk tweeted on Monday.
And his electric car maker sent out a press release Monday boasting that the Tesla S "set a new record for the lowest likelihood of injury to occupants," with a combined score of 5.4 stars and that its score exceeded the safety score of all SUVs and minivans.
That braggadocio prompted NHTSA to issue a statement five stars is its highest score -- there is no 5.4 -- and that it does not rank vehicles. A vehicle gets five stars or it doesn't.
"The driving public should know that NHTSA does not rate vehicles beyond 5 stars and does not rank or order vehicles within the star rating categories," the agency said in a statement this week.
NHTSA did not specifically call out Tesla in its statement but said automakers should follow its guidelines when the companies make claims about the safety results.
Jim Hall, managing director of 2953 Analytics in Birmingham, said Tesla is on thin ice with its claims.
"You don't say what the government doesn't say using government data," Hall said. "(NHTSA) doesn't rate vehicles above than five, and somebody at Tesla should have caught that."
The Model S is an all-electric luxury sedan car with an EPA-rated range of 265 miles with an 85 kWh battery on a full charge. A base model with a 60 kWh battery and an EPA-rated range of 208 miles starts at $72,070. Buyers may qualify (based on income) for a $7,500 federal tax credit and additional state electric car subsidies.
Tesla's release also said that during validation of Model S roof crush protection at an independent commercial site, a testing machine failed after it was unable to crush the roof. Musk also boasted about the roof crush test in an interview on "CBS This Morning" on Wednesday.
"When we did the roof crush test, it got to four times the weight of the car, and then the machine broke," Musk told CBS. "So, literally the thing that is supposed to crush the car broke instead of the car."
The company has not identified, however, who conducted that roof testing.Tesla also declined to respond to questions about the machine used for the crush test or the type of testing that was done.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
C. Foose
()
Date: August 27, 2013 05:43PM
Nicolia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tesla is going to be the next Chrysler or GM.
Massive failure that required the government to bail them out. Twice for Chrysler.
> They have a solid plan.
Government loans and bailouts.
> Their cars a serious luxury and they are not going away.
Like Cadillac, now a niche player in a market they dominated. Never going away? They will be making crappy electric cars in 10,000 years?
> The technology is now here that not only makes the electric car affordable, Affordable via government tax credits if you buy one. It is the only reason people buy these.
> but better than a gas power car.
How?
> You'll slowly see gas powered cars fade away as
> Tesla rev's up and more startup electric car
> companies start to rip Tesla's technology.
Very slowly as we waste more tax money on green failures.
> The same as when steam cars went out and gas car evolved.
You mean when there was over 1 billion steam cars on the road and the gasoline car over took it? Your example makes no sense.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tesla is going to be the next Chrysler or GM.
Massive failure that required the government to bail them out. Twice for Chrysler.
> They have a solid plan.
Government loans and bailouts.
> Their cars a serious luxury and they are not going away.
Like Cadillac, now a niche player in a market they dominated. Never going away? They will be making crappy electric cars in 10,000 years?
> The technology is now here that not only makes the electric car affordable, Affordable via government tax credits if you buy one. It is the only reason people buy these.
> but better than a gas power car.
How?
> You'll slowly see gas powered cars fade away as
> Tesla rev's up and more startup electric car
> companies start to rip Tesla's technology.
Very slowly as we waste more tax money on green failures.
> The same as when steam cars went out and gas car evolved.
You mean when there was over 1 billion steam cars on the road and the gasoline car over took it? Your example makes no sense.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
MotherJones must be Conservative
()
Date: August 27, 2013 05:45PM
What Cramer forgot to mention...
Tesla Motors Earns $26 Million in the 2nd Quarter—Thanks to the Government
Charts: Without subsidies, Elon Musk's electric-car startup wouldn't have rolled this far.
By Maggie Severns | Wed Aug. 7, 2013 11:49 AM PDT
Editor's note: This story has been updated to reflect Tesla's Q2 results.
Tesla Motors surprised Wall Street this afternoon, announcing second-quarter profits of $26 million on $405 million in revenue. Since it reported its first modest profit in May, the electric-car company cofounded by billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk already had seen its share price more than double, and you can expect it to soar even higher when the markets open tomorrow. Many analysts, after all, were expecting Tesla to take a hit. But so far, the company's profits have relied on government subsidies and initiatives.
Tesla's own accomplishments are impressive. The company, founded in 2004, is selling its all-electric cars as fast as it can produce them, even though the baseline price for a Model S sedan is nearly $70,000. Car and Driver says the Model S is possibly the best car it has ever tested. Musk has built a successful company after years of scraping by low on funds while sinking money into researching and developing amazing cars.
In January 2010, as Tesla was developing the Model S, it received a $465 million dollar loan from the Department of Energy (DOE). That's not to mention other, less direct subsidies, like the millions of dollars in subsidies in Japan that helped Panasonic develop the lithium-ion batteries that are at the heart of every Tesla car. Tesla's modest first-quarter profit relied on $68 million from zero-emission-vehicle (ZEV) credits it sold to other, less environmentally friendly car companies under a California emissions mandate. There's also the $7,500 federal tax break for people who buy electric vehicles, which makes its pricey cars more affordable.
As for today's results. Tesla earned $51 million on ZEV credits, without which it would not have been able to report a profit. [Note these credits disappear next year.]
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/08/tesla-q2-second-quarter-earnings-elon-musk-subsidies
Tesla Motors Earns $26 Million in the 2nd Quarter—Thanks to the Government
Charts: Without subsidies, Elon Musk's electric-car startup wouldn't have rolled this far.
By Maggie Severns | Wed Aug. 7, 2013 11:49 AM PDT
Editor's note: This story has been updated to reflect Tesla's Q2 results.
Tesla Motors surprised Wall Street this afternoon, announcing second-quarter profits of $26 million on $405 million in revenue. Since it reported its first modest profit in May, the electric-car company cofounded by billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk already had seen its share price more than double, and you can expect it to soar even higher when the markets open tomorrow. Many analysts, after all, were expecting Tesla to take a hit. But so far, the company's profits have relied on government subsidies and initiatives.
Tesla's own accomplishments are impressive. The company, founded in 2004, is selling its all-electric cars as fast as it can produce them, even though the baseline price for a Model S sedan is nearly $70,000. Car and Driver says the Model S is possibly the best car it has ever tested. Musk has built a successful company after years of scraping by low on funds while sinking money into researching and developing amazing cars.
In January 2010, as Tesla was developing the Model S, it received a $465 million dollar loan from the Department of Energy (DOE). That's not to mention other, less direct subsidies, like the millions of dollars in subsidies in Japan that helped Panasonic develop the lithium-ion batteries that are at the heart of every Tesla car. Tesla's modest first-quarter profit relied on $68 million from zero-emission-vehicle (ZEV) credits it sold to other, less environmentally friendly car companies under a California emissions mandate. There's also the $7,500 federal tax break for people who buy electric vehicles, which makes its pricey cars more affordable.
As for today's results. Tesla earned $51 million on ZEV credits, without which it would not have been able to report a profit. [Note these credits disappear next year.]
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/08/tesla-q2-second-quarter-earnings-elon-musk-subsidies
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Stabitha
()
Date: August 27, 2013 06:41PM
I still don't understand how you are supposed to charge these up these cars away from home. I have been all over Florida in the last month and I have yet to see a charging station ANYWHERE! And I've been in some pretty exclusive hoods.....Boca, Palm Beach, Jupiter.....where you would expect rich fuckers to be driving one of these.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Road Musings
()
Date: August 27, 2013 06:52PM
Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jim Cramer endorsing you is generally a kiss of
> death.
This.
That said, at the risk of losing my GOP card, I actually have a hard-on for the Vault, my concerns about the build quality of Chevy/GM in general these days notwithstanding.
It's probably not that practical yet, but as someone who loves technology I find the concept rather awesome.
It's my understanding the Teslas are electric-only (ie no backup), right?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jim Cramer endorsing you is generally a kiss of
> death.
This.
That said, at the risk of losing my GOP card, I actually have a hard-on for the Vault, my concerns about the build quality of Chevy/GM in general these days notwithstanding.
It's probably not that practical yet, but as someone who loves technology I find the concept rather awesome.
It's my understanding the Teslas are electric-only (ie no backup), right?
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Liberal Logic 27
()
Date: August 27, 2013 07:42PM
Road Musings Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
> That said, at the risk of losing my GOP card, I
> actually have a hard-on for the Vault, my concerns
> about the build quality of Chevy/GM in general
> these days notwithstanding.
>
> It's probably not that practical yet, but as
> someone who loves technology I find the concept
> rather awesome.
You wont lose your GOP card for that. Some of us are obviously bigger doubters than others about the viability of the technology at its current stage. That said no one is actually against the exploration of it if the private market wants to explore it like they would anyone else.
What Im against if having it heavily subsidized by the government forcing it into the market when the only reason its surviving is from government money and purchases. It was rushed to market before it was ready to really compete which only happened because of government money and pushing. Had it been allowed to develop the technology would have been a lot better suited to compete when they deemed it market ready and it would have cost a lot less.
If you like them by all means by one, Im just sick of hearing what a "success" theyve been from government backing. If they governments going to throw money at a company of course it will be "successful".
Im not sure how good the Hedgefund performed when Cramer ran it, but if your followed his advice on his show youd be out a ton of money. Theres a reason why he doesnt run a hedgefund anymore and its not because he makes more money on the show. Him pushing it seems to me more like a sign that they know troubles ahead and they need to try and find a way to get money flowing into the company.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
> That said, at the risk of losing my GOP card, I
> actually have a hard-on for the Vault, my concerns
> about the build quality of Chevy/GM in general
> these days notwithstanding.
>
> It's probably not that practical yet, but as
> someone who loves technology I find the concept
> rather awesome.
You wont lose your GOP card for that. Some of us are obviously bigger doubters than others about the viability of the technology at its current stage. That said no one is actually against the exploration of it if the private market wants to explore it like they would anyone else.
What Im against if having it heavily subsidized by the government forcing it into the market when the only reason its surviving is from government money and purchases. It was rushed to market before it was ready to really compete which only happened because of government money and pushing. Had it been allowed to develop the technology would have been a lot better suited to compete when they deemed it market ready and it would have cost a lot less.
If you like them by all means by one, Im just sick of hearing what a "success" theyve been from government backing. If they governments going to throw money at a company of course it will be "successful".
Im not sure how good the Hedgefund performed when Cramer ran it, but if your followed his advice on his show youd be out a ton of money. Theres a reason why he doesnt run a hedgefund anymore and its not because he makes more money on the show. Him pushing it seems to me more like a sign that they know troubles ahead and they need to try and find a way to get money flowing into the company.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
End them all
()
Date: August 27, 2013 08:23PM
Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Road Musings Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
>
> > That said, at the risk of losing my GOP card, I
> > actually have a hard-on for the Vault, my
> concerns
> > about the build quality of Chevy/GM in general
> > these days notwithstanding.
> >
> > It's probably not that practical yet, but as
> > someone who loves technology I find the concept
> > rather awesome.
>
> You wont lose your GOP card for that. Some of us
> are obviously bigger doubters than others about
> the viability of the technology at its current
> stage. That said no one is actually against the
> exploration of it if the private market wants to
> explore it like they would anyone else.
>
> What Im against if having it heavily subsidized by
> the government forcing it into the market when the
> only reason its surviving is from government money
> and purchases. It was rushed to market before it
> was ready to really compete which only happened
> because of government money and pushing. Had it
> been allowed to develop the technology would have
> been a lot better suited to compete when they
> deemed it market ready and it would have cost a
> lot less.
>
> If you like them by all means by one, Im just sick
> of hearing what a "success" theyve been from
> government backing. If they governments going to
> throw money at a company of course it will be
> "successful".
>
> Im not sure how good the Hedgefund performed when
> Cramer ran it, but if your followed his advice on
> his show youd be out a ton of money. Theres a
> reason why he doesnt run a hedgefund anymore and
> its not because he makes more money on the show.
> Him pushing it seems to me more like a sign that
> they know troubles ahead and they need to try and
> find a way to get money flowing into the company.
Are you also against the subsidies the oil compinies receive?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Road Musings Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
>
> > That said, at the risk of losing my GOP card, I
> > actually have a hard-on for the Vault, my
> concerns
> > about the build quality of Chevy/GM in general
> > these days notwithstanding.
> >
> > It's probably not that practical yet, but as
> > someone who loves technology I find the concept
> > rather awesome.
>
> You wont lose your GOP card for that. Some of us
> are obviously bigger doubters than others about
> the viability of the technology at its current
> stage. That said no one is actually against the
> exploration of it if the private market wants to
> explore it like they would anyone else.
>
> What Im against if having it heavily subsidized by
> the government forcing it into the market when the
> only reason its surviving is from government money
> and purchases. It was rushed to market before it
> was ready to really compete which only happened
> because of government money and pushing. Had it
> been allowed to develop the technology would have
> been a lot better suited to compete when they
> deemed it market ready and it would have cost a
> lot less.
>
> If you like them by all means by one, Im just sick
> of hearing what a "success" theyve been from
> government backing. If they governments going to
> throw money at a company of course it will be
> "successful".
>
> Im not sure how good the Hedgefund performed when
> Cramer ran it, but if your followed his advice on
> his show youd be out a ton of money. Theres a
> reason why he doesnt run a hedgefund anymore and
> its not because he makes more money on the show.
> Him pushing it seems to me more like a sign that
> they know troubles ahead and they need to try and
> find a way to get money flowing into the company.
Are you also against the subsidies the oil compinies receive?
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Nail ----> Head
()
Date: August 27, 2013 08:24PM
"Him pushing it seems to me more like a sign that they know troubles ahead and they need to try and find a way to get money flowing into the company."
Nail on head.
Nail on head.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Liberal Logic 27
()
Date: August 27, 2013 09:07PM
End them all Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you also against the subsidies the oil
> compinies receive?
Which oil companies would those be, the ones paying billions a year in taxes or the ones allowing the government to collect billions if not 100s of billions every year on gasoline taxes at the pump?
Oh my bad theyre the same companies that the government makes billions off of and also pays billions more in taxes on top of that.
Go on though Id love to hear how Oil companies and electric cars contribute the same to the economy
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you also against the subsidies the oil
> compinies receive?
Which oil companies would those be, the ones paying billions a year in taxes or the ones allowing the government to collect billions if not 100s of billions every year on gasoline taxes at the pump?
Oh my bad theyre the same companies that the government makes billions off of and also pays billions more in taxes on top of that.
Go on though Id love to hear how Oil companies and electric cars contribute the same to the economy
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Could pay more
()
Date: August 27, 2013 09:16PM
Why do we have so many military assets in the gulf.... Who pays those folks?
And you can look it up on all the subsidies
No way a tiny electric car company has the same economic affects as big oil - no one said they were the same
And you can look it up on all the subsidies
No way a tiny electric car company has the same economic affects as big oil - no one said they were the same
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Liberal Logic 27
()
Date: August 27, 2013 10:00PM
Could pay more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do we have so many military assets in the
> gulf.... Who pays those folks?
> And you can look it up on all the subsidies
> No way a tiny electric car company has the same
> economic affects as big oil - no one said they
> were the same
Tax breaks arent a subsidy. Unlike you I dont believe that all money is the governments unless they let you keep it. The only way to call a tax break a subsidy is if you believe the government is doing them a favor allowing them to keep more money.
You were implying oil and electric cars are the same by bringing oil into question. If you dont think theyre the same why did you make the comparison?
Also green energy money from tax cuts, to subsidies, to government buying their product can easily go head to head with any tax cut the oil industry gets that already pays in billions to the government
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do we have so many military assets in the
> gulf.... Who pays those folks?
> And you can look it up on all the subsidies
> No way a tiny electric car company has the same
> economic affects as big oil - no one said they
> were the same
Tax breaks arent a subsidy. Unlike you I dont believe that all money is the governments unless they let you keep it. The only way to call a tax break a subsidy is if you believe the government is doing them a favor allowing them to keep more money.
You were implying oil and electric cars are the same by bringing oil into question. If you dont think theyre the same why did you make the comparison?
Also green energy money from tax cuts, to subsidies, to government buying their product can easily go head to head with any tax cut the oil industry gets that already pays in billions to the government
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Fair Share
()
Date: August 27, 2013 10:02PM
Why do we have middle-class taxpayers subsidizing high-end electric sports cars for rich guys?
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
good lord youre stupid
()
Date: August 27, 2013 11:33PM
Tracking was a heavily subsidized technology. Oil companies receive huge subsidies. Telecom companies receive huge subsidies in the form of special tax advantages. Bitching about clean tech subsidies is cherry picking to an absurd degree.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Mike Omeara Pensacola
()
Date: August 28, 2013 12:09AM
Tesla has a great product and their stock has done very well. They are at least for the moment in a niche market. As for Cramer, he is a bombastic fool. By the time he gets his information it is for all practical purposes useless.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
kLMbt
()
Date: August 28, 2013 12:14AM
good lord youre stupid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tracking was a heavily subsidized technology. Oil
> companies receive huge subsidies. Telecom
> companies receive huge subsidies in the form of
> special tax advantages. Bitching about clean tech
> subsidies is cherry picking to an absurd degree.
What subsidies do oil companies get smart guy. And be specific.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tracking was a heavily subsidized technology. Oil
> companies receive huge subsidies. Telecom
> companies receive huge subsidies in the form of
> special tax advantages. Bitching about clean tech
> subsidies is cherry picking to an absurd degree.
What subsidies do oil companies get smart guy. And be specific.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Liberal Logic 27
()
Date: August 28, 2013 01:00AM
good lord youre stupid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tracking was a heavily subsidized technology. Oil
> companies receive huge subsidies. Telecom
> companies receive huge subsidies in the form of
> special tax advantages. Bitching about clean tech
> subsidies is cherry picking to an absurd degree.
Aside from the fact you didnt name a single subsidy that they get that somehow dwarfs green energy ones, your also speaking about oil/telcom and green energy like their services provided are on equal footing. Now that is the true absurdity.
While were at it can you answer why the defense is always something or someone else did it? Why cant you progressives ever just deal with the issue at hand instead of constantly trying to change the subject to defend awful programs?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tracking was a heavily subsidized technology. Oil
> companies receive huge subsidies. Telecom
> companies receive huge subsidies in the form of
> special tax advantages. Bitching about clean tech
> subsidies is cherry picking to an absurd degree.
Aside from the fact you didnt name a single subsidy that they get that somehow dwarfs green energy ones, your also speaking about oil/telcom and green energy like their services provided are on equal footing. Now that is the true absurdity.
While were at it can you answer why the defense is always something or someone else did it? Why cant you progressives ever just deal with the issue at hand instead of constantly trying to change the subject to defend awful programs?
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
liberal logic 27
()
Date: August 28, 2013 07:00AM
Democrats want to tax and spend
Republicans want to borrow and spend.
Republicans want to borrow and spend.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
good lord youre stupid
()
Date: August 28, 2013 07:29AM
i don't accept homework assignments from trolls. try google if you're interested in learning something.
also, there's a difference between tax breaks and subsidies, except there's not. look up the term fungibility while you're at it.
finally, read up on how fracking technology was developed with a lot of help from subsidies. so was the internet that you're trolling right now. so were any number of things you rely on every day. very convenient that you're crying all of a sudden about electric cars.
dumbass.
also, there's a difference between tax breaks and subsidies, except there's not. look up the term fungibility while you're at it.
finally, read up on how fracking technology was developed with a lot of help from subsidies. so was the internet that you're trolling right now. so were any number of things you rely on every day. very convenient that you're crying all of a sudden about electric cars.
dumbass.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Unicorn Wrangler
()
Date: August 28, 2013 11:21AM
good lord youre stupid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i don't accept homework assignments from trolls.
> try google if you're interested in learning
> something.
>
> also, there's a difference between tax breaks and
> subsidies, except there's not. look up the term
> fungibility while you're at it.
>
> finally, read up on how fracking technology was
> developed with a lot of help from subsidies. so
> was the internet that you're trolling right now.
> so were any number of things you rely on every
> day. very convenient that you're crying all of a
> sudden about electric cars.
>
> dumbass.
In other words, you can't. You've just heard through the usual talking points that 'Big Oil' is bad and gets all of these big subsidies and tax breaks. Reality is that you're a typical manipulated slub who has no clue beyond that.
No, 'fracking' was not developed due to subsidies. Because the government may have thrown some money at related technology at various times through some programs doesn't mean that it gets credit for developing it. Likewise, the vast majority of what constitutes the 'Internet' wasn't either. In fact, the simple involvement of the government completely stopped any commercial uses until NSFnet was pulled.
Public funding has an important role in fundamental research but crediting it with more than is deserved is just as much of a 'myth.' And trying to equate attempts at subsidizing specific commercial businesses like Tesla with that is far off the mark.
-------------------------------------------------------
> i don't accept homework assignments from trolls.
> try google if you're interested in learning
> something.
>
> also, there's a difference between tax breaks and
> subsidies, except there's not. look up the term
> fungibility while you're at it.
>
> finally, read up on how fracking technology was
> developed with a lot of help from subsidies. so
> was the internet that you're trolling right now.
> so were any number of things you rely on every
> day. very convenient that you're crying all of a
> sudden about electric cars.
>
> dumbass.
In other words, you can't. You've just heard through the usual talking points that 'Big Oil' is bad and gets all of these big subsidies and tax breaks. Reality is that you're a typical manipulated slub who has no clue beyond that.
No, 'fracking' was not developed due to subsidies. Because the government may have thrown some money at related technology at various times through some programs doesn't mean that it gets credit for developing it. Likewise, the vast majority of what constitutes the 'Internet' wasn't either. In fact, the simple involvement of the government completely stopped any commercial uses until NSFnet was pulled.
Public funding has an important role in fundamental research but crediting it with more than is deserved is just as much of a 'myth.' And trying to equate attempts at subsidizing specific commercial businesses like Tesla with that is far off the mark.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Curmudgeon
()
Date: August 28, 2013 11:58AM
6 out of 10. for bonus trolling points, your spelling needs to be worse.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Trapster
()
Date: August 28, 2013 12:22PM
Fracking, oh you mean the process that ruined have a counties water in Pennsylvania?
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2011/0509/Fracking-for-natural-gas-is-polluting-ground-water-study-concludes
Face it, we need get off oil and become energy independent. Fuck oil, Arabs and OPEC!
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2011/0509/Fracking-for-natural-gas-is-polluting-ground-water-study-concludes
Face it, we need get off oil and become energy independent. Fuck oil, Arabs and OPEC!
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Liberal Logic 27
()
Date: August 28, 2013 12:23PM
good lord youre stupid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i don't accept homework assignments from trolls.
> try google if you're interested in learning
> something.
Basically you dont actually know any details you just know the talking point line got it.
> also, there's a difference between tax breaks and
> subsidies, except there's not. look up the term
> fungibility while you're at it.
No a tax break is not a subsidy unless of course youre some extremist that thinks all money is the governments and theyve done you a favor allowing you to keep any of it.
> finally, read up on how fracking technology was
> developed with a lot of help from subsidies. so
> was the internet that you're trolling right now.
> so were any number of things you rely on every
> day. very convenient that you're crying all of a
> sudden about electric cars.
You mean fracking that standard oil and haliburton have been doing since the 40s honing the technology since then? Nice try though
The internet is a result of military innovations at the earliest stages but didnt come anything close to what we know it as today until private money did the rest. You cant even keep things straight anymore youre just throwing shit at the wall hoping something will stick.
But please tell us how green energy and the military are logical equivelants in necessity, service, and return for the money? While youre at it tell us how green energy is as essential as oil, ill wait.
> dumbass.
Yes yes you are.
I noticed you didnt address my point about how only a complete moron would equate green energy and oil like theyre on equal footing with the necessity or services provided.
In other words to sum everything up were now several posts deep and havent gotten a single fact from you other than spitting back up the talking points that your tiny brain is drowning in. Since its quite clear all this is going to be is ad hominem attacks I figure I might as well join in now
-------------------------------------------------------
> i don't accept homework assignments from trolls.
> try google if you're interested in learning
> something.
Basically you dont actually know any details you just know the talking point line got it.
> also, there's a difference between tax breaks and
> subsidies, except there's not. look up the term
> fungibility while you're at it.
No a tax break is not a subsidy unless of course youre some extremist that thinks all money is the governments and theyve done you a favor allowing you to keep any of it.
> finally, read up on how fracking technology was
> developed with a lot of help from subsidies. so
> was the internet that you're trolling right now.
> so were any number of things you rely on every
> day. very convenient that you're crying all of a
> sudden about electric cars.
You mean fracking that standard oil and haliburton have been doing since the 40s honing the technology since then? Nice try though
The internet is a result of military innovations at the earliest stages but didnt come anything close to what we know it as today until private money did the rest. You cant even keep things straight anymore youre just throwing shit at the wall hoping something will stick.
But please tell us how green energy and the military are logical equivelants in necessity, service, and return for the money? While youre at it tell us how green energy is as essential as oil, ill wait.
> dumbass.
Yes yes you are.
I noticed you didnt address my point about how only a complete moron would equate green energy and oil like theyre on equal footing with the necessity or services provided.
In other words to sum everything up were now several posts deep and havent gotten a single fact from you other than spitting back up the talking points that your tiny brain is drowning in. Since its quite clear all this is going to be is ad hominem attacks I figure I might as well join in now
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
It's magic!
()
Date: August 28, 2013 12:32PM
Trapster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fracking, oh you mean the process that ruined
> have a counties water in Pennsylvania?
>
> http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2011/0509/Fra
> cking-for-natural-gas-is-polluting-ground-water-st
> udy-concludes
>
> Face it, we need get off oil and become energy
> independent. Fuck oil, Arabs and OPEC!
Your study is dated, lacked baseline data, and largely doesn't apply as demonstrated by many others since.
And guess where most of the electricity to charge those electric cars is and will be coming from Sparky.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fracking, oh you mean the process that ruined
> have a counties water in Pennsylvania?
>
> http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2011/0509/Fra
> cking-for-natural-gas-is-polluting-ground-water-st
> udy-concludes
>
> Face it, we need get off oil and become energy
> independent. Fuck oil, Arabs and OPEC!
Your study is dated, lacked baseline data, and largely doesn't apply as demonstrated by many others since.
And guess where most of the electricity to charge those electric cars is and will be coming from Sparky.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Liberal Logic 27
()
Date: August 28, 2013 12:50PM
It's magic! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And guess where most of the electricity to charge
> those electric cars is and will be coming from
> Sparky.
WHOA hold on a minute you mean that electricity doesnt just magically appear out of a wall? You mean it comes from coal burning power plants in most of the country? Next youll tell me those batteries are dangerous to the environment and electric cars are actually worse for it than normal cars when all things are considered.
-------------------------------------------------------
> And guess where most of the electricity to charge
> those electric cars is and will be coming from
> Sparky.
WHOA hold on a minute you mean that electricity doesnt just magically appear out of a wall? You mean it comes from coal burning power plants in most of the country? Next youll tell me those batteries are dangerous to the environment and electric cars are actually worse for it than normal cars when all things are considered.
Re: Conservatives Myths Debunked on Electric Tesla Cars-Bitch Slapped By Cramer
Posted by:
Larry David
()
Date: August 29, 2013 12:48AM
The Howard car blows the Tesla out of the water. I'm just saying.