http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/22/why-military-code-demands-mcchrystal-s-resignation.html?GT1=43002

I think its time that Obama realizes that not everyone wants to be on his sack...

anonymous eesh post

question mark?

the grammar police Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/22/why-military-co
> de-demands-mcchrystal-s-resignation.html?GT1=43002
>
>
> I think its time that Obama realizes that not
> everyone wants to be on his sack...


+1, agreed. Nothing ever gets done, if everybody acts as a "Yes Man".

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

ThePackLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the grammar police Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/22/why-military-co
>
> >
> de-demands-mcchrystal-s-resignation.html?GT1=43002
>
> >
> >
> > I think its time that Obama realizes that not
> > everyone wants to be on his sack...
>
>
> +1, agreed. Nothing ever gets done, if everybody
> acts as a "Yes Man".

Hey, dummy. In the military every subordinate is a "yes man." if you aren't you are reprimanded...or worse.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Hey, dummy. In the military every subordinate is a
> "yes man." if you aren't you are reprimanded...or
> worse.

Like having streets, schools, bridges, malls, towns, etc. named after you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_named_for_Douglas_MacArthur

mac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Hey, dummy. In the military every subordinate is
> a
> > "yes man." if you aren't you are
> reprimanded...or
> > worse.
>
> Like having streets, schools, bridges, malls,
> towns, etc. named after you.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_named_for_Doug
> las_MacArthur

Now compare that to the numbers of streets, schools, bridges, malls, etc, named after "yes man" Dwight D. Eisenhower...who became President while MacArthur slinked away with his tail between his legs after his speech to Congress.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mac Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Hey, dummy. In the military every subordinate
> is
> > a
> > > "yes man." if you aren't you are
> > reprimanded...or
> > > worse.
> >
> > Like having streets, schools, bridges, malls,
> > towns, etc. named after you.
> >
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_named_for_Doug
>
> > las_MacArthur
>
> Now compare that to the numbers of streets,
> schools, bridges, malls, etc, named after "yes
> man" Dwight D. Eisenhower...who became President
> while MacArthur slinked away with his tail between
> his legs after his speech to Congress.

Apples and oranges, as you pointed out, Ike was more than a General, he was a President.

POTUS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Apples and oranges, as you pointed out, Ike was
> more than a General, he was a President.


It's not apples and oranges. MacArthur has streets named after him for the things he was not insubordinate about. He isn't honored for fucking up in Korea.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ThePackLeader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > the grammar police Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> >
> http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/22/why-military-co
>
> >
> > >
> >
> de-demands-mcchrystal-s-resignation.html?GT1=43002
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think its time that Obama realizes that not
> > > everyone wants to be on his sack...
> >
> >
> > +1, agreed. Nothing ever gets done, if
> everybody
> > acts as a "Yes Man".
>
> Hey, dummy. In the military every subordinate is a
> "yes man." if you aren't you are reprimanded...or
> worse.



I can't believe Packleader would say that being a military buff and all...

Either you follow orders or you don't, there is no such thing as a "yes man" in the military. Our defense is under civilian control, if a military commander feels he can't take orders from a president he dislikes so much, he needs to resign, not bitch to Rolling Stone.

Blessed are the murderous.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> I can't believe Packleader would say that being a
> military buff and all...
>
> Either you follow orders or you don't, there is
> no such thing as a "yes man" in the military. Our
> defense is under civilian control, if a military
> commander feels he can't take orders from a
> president he dislikes so much, he needs to resign,
> not bitch to Rolling Stone.

It's because PackLeader changes his world view at the drop of a hat to fit whatever argument he is trying to make.

Colin Powell, who wasn't even in the military at the time, did the presentation at the UN, even though behind the scenes he thought it was bullshit. That's what military people do. And, as you say, if you don't like it, you quit. And you say nothing about it to the press afterwards.

I don't think what McChrystal did was intentional. But the fact that he blundered into it, and his idiot aides went along, shows really horrifically bad judgment. And while McChrystal gets props for being buddies with Karzai, I think Karzai has been playing the U.S. for suckers all along, so I don't know what the value of a good relationship with a con-man nets for us.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> POTUS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Apples and oranges, as you pointed out, Ike was
> > more than a General, he was a President.
>
>
> It's not apples and oranges. MacArthur has streets
> named after him for the things he was not
> insubordinate about. He isn't honored for fucking
> up in Korea.

It is apples and oranges. More shit in this country is named after Presidents than generals. Deal withi it.

POTUS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> It is apples and oranges. More shit in this
> country is named after Presidents than generals.
> Deal withi it.


It is "apples and oranges" because you don't have a better reply.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> POTUS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > It is apples and oranges. More shit in this
> > country is named after Presidents than generals.
>
> > Deal withi it.
>
>
> It is "apples and oranges" because you don't have
> a better reply.

No, it is because it is. Go ahead, tell me the earth is flat.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's because PackLeader changes his world view at
> the drop of a hat to fit whatever argument he is
> trying to make.
>
> Colin Powell, who wasn't even in the military at
> the time, did the presentation at the UN, even
> though behind the scenes he thought it was
> bullshit. That's what military people do. And, as
> you say, if you don't like it, you quit. And you
> say nothing about it to the press afterwards.
>
> I don't think what McChrystal did was intentional.
> But the fact that he blundered into it, and his
> idiot aides went along, shows really horrifically
> bad judgment. And while McChrystal gets props for
> being buddies with Karzai, I think Karzai has been
> playing the U.S. for suckers all along, so I don't
> know what the value of a good relationship with a
> con-man nets for us.


The Potentate of Tote and Freight?

Take the troops out of Afghanistan and use drones to pick off militants like in Pakistan.

Lopter50 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take the troops out of Afghanistan and use drones
> to pick off militants like in Pakistan.

You are joking, right?

Word is, he's gone. Regrettable, but necessary. He gave Obama no option.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Some people will do anything to get out of the military.

Gonads & Strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some people will do anything to get out of the
> military.

I just lol'd all over myself @ Cpl. Klinger

Gonads & Strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just lol'd all over myself @ Cpl. Klinger


Actually, with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" going away, that's McChrystal's replacement.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Wow, that Green to Gold program really works wonders!

This is the White House spin: "President Obama has relieved Gen. Stanley McChrystal of his duties as the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, after McChrystal was quoted criticizing top White House officials in a Rolling Stone article, according to a White House official.

Obama will name Gen. David Petraeus to succeed McChrystal as top war commander in Afghanistan."

In reality, McChrystal decided to leave, not over this, but because it's become obvious to him that most of the bad guys moved to Pakistan to wait for the promised Obama/Biden pullout in 2011. That's what he told Obama this morning, and Obama did not like hearing it.

It would be cool if McChrystal and his team started up a mercenary force and contracted to Karzai once the US troops are gone.

Omar Bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> In reality, McChrystal decided to leave, not over
> this, but because it's become obvious to him that
> most of the bad guys moved to Pakistan to wait for
> the promised Obama/Biden pullout in 2011. That's
> what he told Obama this morning, and Obama did not
> like hearing it.
>
Uh, well, according to McChrystal, he told the press this morning before the meeting that he wasn't resigning. So, you would be wrong.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Gonads & Strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, that Green to Gold program really works
> wonders!


I believe that would be Green to Fuschia, in this particular instance.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Omar Bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is the White House spin: "President Obama has
> relieved Gen. Stanley McChrystal of his duties as
> the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan,
> after McChrystal was quoted criticizing top White
> House officials in a Rolling Stone article,
> according to a White House official.
>
> Obama will name Gen. David Petraeus to succeed
> McChrystal as top war commander in Afghanistan."
>
> In reality, McChrystal decided to leave, not over
> this, but because it's become obvious to him that
> most of the bad guys moved to Pakistan to wait for
> the promised Obama/Biden pullout in 2011. That's
> what he told Obama this morning, and Obama did not
> like hearing it.
>
> It would be cool if McChrystal and his team
> started up a mercenary force and contracted to
> Karzai once the US troops are gone.


Yeah cool...AMerican Hessians....that is like way cool!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Omar Bradley Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is the White House spin: "President Obama
> has
> > relieved Gen. Stanley McChrystal of his duties
> as
> > the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan,
> > after McChrystal was quoted criticizing top
> White
> > House officials in a Rolling Stone article,
> > according to a White House official.
> >
> > Obama will name Gen. David Petraeus to succeed
> > McChrystal as top war commander in
> Afghanistan."
> >
> > In reality, McChrystal decided to leave, not
> over
> > this, but because it's become obvious to him
> that
> > most of the bad guys moved to Pakistan to wait
> for
> > the promised Obama/Biden pullout in 2011.
> That's
> > what he told Obama this morning, and Obama did
> not
> > like hearing it.
> >
> > It would be cool if McChrystal and his team
> > started up a mercenary force and contracted to
> > Karzai once the US troops are gone.
>
>
> Yeah cool...AMerican Hessians....that is like way
> cool!


Why not join them? They could use some more "Generals" like you.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Omar Bradley Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > In reality, McChrystal decided to leave, not
> over
> > this, but because it's become obvious to him
> that
> > most of the bad guys moved to Pakistan to wait
> for
> > the promised Obama/Biden pullout in 2011.
> That's
> > what he told Obama this morning, and Obama did
> not
> > like hearing it.
> >
> Uh, well, according to McChrystal, he told the
> press this morning before the meeting that he
> wasn't resigning. So, you would be wrong.

Well, according to his statement, you would be wrong.....

AP) - The statement issued by Gen. Stanley McChrystal after President Barack Obama announced his dismissal the top NATO commander in Afghanistan:

___

This morning the President accepted my resignation as Commander of U.S. and NATO Coalition Forces in Afghanistan. I strongly support the President's strategy in Afghanistan and am deeply committed to our coalition forces, our partner nations, and the Afghan people. It was out of respect for this commitment _ and a desire to see the mission succeed _ that I tendered my resignation.

It has been my privilege and honor to lead our nation's finest.

resigned Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Well, according to his statement, you would be
> wrong.....
>
> AP) - The statement issued by Gen. Stanley
> McChrystal after President Barack Obama announced
> his dismissal the top NATO commander in
> Afghanistan:
>
> ___
>
> This morning the President accepted my resignation
> as Commander of U.S. and NATO Coalition Forces in
> Afghanistan. I strongly support the President's
> strategy in Afghanistan and am deeply committed to
> our coalition forces, our partner nations, and the
> Afghan people. It was out of respect for this
> commitment _ and a desire to see the mission
> succeed _ that I tendered my resignation.
>
> It has been my privilege and honor to lead our
> nation's finest.

No, I wouldn't...

Gen. Stanley McChrystal, walking into the Pentagon this morning for a meeting with Defense Secretary Robert Gates, denied reports that he's already offered to resign his post as general in charge of the Afghanistan War.

"Come on, you know better than that. No!" he told an NBC News reporter.


Seems to me McChrystal thought Obama didn't have the balls to ask for his resignation. Obviously, he did. And, no, it is very apparent that McChrystal wasn't planning to resign to make some sort of half-assed statement about the war.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> resigned Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Well, according to his statement, you would be
> > wrong.....
> >
> > AP) - The statement issued by Gen. Stanley
> > McChrystal after President Barack Obama
> announced
> > his dismissal the top NATO commander in
> > Afghanistan:
> >
> > ___
> >
> > This morning the President accepted my
> resignation
> > as Commander of U.S. and NATO Coalition Forces
> in
> > Afghanistan. I strongly support the President's
> > strategy in Afghanistan and am deeply committed
> to
> > our coalition forces, our partner nations, and
> the
> > Afghan people. It was out of respect for this
> > commitment _ and a desire to see the mission
> > succeed _ that I tendered my resignation.
> >
> > It has been my privilege and honor to lead our
> > nation's finest.
>
> No, I wouldn't...
>
> Gen. Stanley McChrystal, walking into the Pentagon
> this morning for a meeting with Defense Secretary
> Robert Gates, denied reports that he's already
> offered to resign his post as general in charge of
> the Afghanistan War.
>
> "Come on, you know better than that. No!" he told
> an NBC News reporter.
>
>
> Seems to me McChrystal thought Obama didn't have
> the balls to ask for his resignation. Obviously,
> he did. And, no, it is very apparent that
> McChrystal wasn't planning to resign to make some
> sort of half-assed statement about the war.

I see you really hate facts.

resigned Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I see you really hate facts.


This is a fact??

In reality, McChrystal decided to leave, not over this, but because it's become obvious to him that most of the bad guys moved to Pakistan to wait for the promised Obama/Biden pullout in 2011. That's what he told Obama this morning, and Obama did not like hearing it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> resigned Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > I see you really hate facts.
>
>
> This is a fact??
>
> In reality, McChrystal decided to leave, not over
> this, but because it's become obvious to him that
> most of the bad guys moved to Pakistan to wait for
> the promised Obama/Biden pullout in 2011. That's
> what he told Obama this morning, and Obama did not
> like hearing it.

no idea. I do not know what is in the man's mind, nor do I pretend to. All I know is what was contained within the statement he issued - he resigned.

resigned Wrote:

>
> no idea. I do not know what is in the man's mind,
> nor do I pretend to. All I know is what was
> contained within the statement he issued - he
> resigned.


Here is how these things work:

President: I'm not happy about this Rolling Stone thing.

General: Yes, sir.

President: I am ending your command in Afghanistan. I need your resignation on my desk this afternoon.

General: Yes, sir.


That's called being forced to resign. In the military, it's about as close as you get to "firing."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Well, that's being graceful. Being terminated without ever seeing the Man is real firing. I've seen that happen.

McChrystal is laughing all the way to the bank. Retired General's
pay and benefits aint shabby. He will command enormous speakers
fees, write some books, and go on the talk show circuit. Obama
will also be living in fear that McChrystal doesn't will trash him.
This is good.

Yah, time has its benefits. Assuming he has 30 years service, he maxes out retirement pay - 75% of his pay is his retirement. An O-10 with 30 years probably makes about $190,000 a year. So, he has a very nice retirement.

Base pay for a four star starts at 15,188 a month and maxes out after 26 years time in service at 16,132 a month. Since he is deployed, this is all tax free; this doesn't include his BAH, which at his rank, is probably close to 3k a month, tax free.


http://usmilitary.about.com/od/fy2010paycharts/a/basicpay.htm

Blessed are the murderous.

Major Malfunction Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McChrystal is laughing all the way to the bank.
> Retired General's
> pay and benefits aint shabby. He will command
> enormous speakers
> fees, write some books, and go on the talk show
> circuit. Obama
> will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> doesn't will trash him.
> This is good.

Plus a gig as a talking head on Fox News. The interview seems deliberate and a way to get out from under Obama's failed policy of a predetermined exit date.

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Major Malfunction Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > McChrystal is laughing all the way to the bank.
> > Retired General's
> > pay and benefits aint shabby. He will command
> > enormous speakers
> > fees, write some books, and go on the talk show
> > circuit. Obama
> > will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> > doesn't will trash him.
> > This is good.
>
> Plus a gig as a talking head on Fox News. The
> interview seems deliberate and a way to get out
> from under Obama's failed policy of a
> predetermined exit date.


Yeah..imagine the alternative....endless years of fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan. But who really cares...it isnt you doing the fighting...it isnt my child. Hell you arent even paying for it. Maybe JR's kid willdo the fighting.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Major Malfunction Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McChrystal is laughing all the way to the bank.
> Retired General's
> pay and benefits aint shabby. He will command
> enormous speakers
> fees, write some books, and go on the talk show
> circuit. Obama
> will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> doesn't will trash him.
> This is good.


Truman survived firing McArthuur a General with 10 time more influence. Sooner or later the American public will tire of these American Ceasars. I hope it doesnt take a Hiroshima to get us there.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dane Bramage Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Major Malfunction Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > McChrystal is laughing all the way to the
> bank.
> > > Retired General's
> > > pay and benefits aint shabby. He will command
> > > enormous speakers
> > > fees, write some books, and go on the talk
> show
> > > circuit. Obama
> > > will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> > > doesn't will trash him.
> > > This is good.
> >
> > Plus a gig as a talking head on Fox News. The
> > interview seems deliberate and a way to get out
> > from under Obama's failed policy of a
> > predetermined exit date.
>
>
> Yeah..imagine the alternative....endless years of
> fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan. But who
> really cares...it isnt you doing the fighting...it
> isnt my child. Hell you arent even paying for it.
> Maybe JR's kid willdo the fighting.

You sure as Hell won't be doing any fighting either. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VNZk0lgvD4

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dane Bramage Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Major Malfunction Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > McChrystal is laughing all the way to the
> bank.
> > > Retired General's
> > > pay and benefits aint shabby. He will command
> > > enormous speakers
> > > fees, write some books, and go on the talk
> show
> > > circuit. Obama
> > > will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> > > doesn't will trash him.
> > > This is good.
> >
> > Plus a gig as a talking head on Fox News. The
> > interview seems deliberate and a way to get out
> > from under Obama's failed policy of a
> > predetermined exit date.
>
>
> Yeah..imagine the alternative....endless years of
> fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan. But who
> really cares...it isnt you doing the fighting...it
> isnt my child. Hell you arent even paying for it.
> Maybe JR's kid willdo the fighting.


I suppose you like the other alternative....

Let me ask a question? Just like my uncle who flew 37 missions over NAZI Germany in a B-17 Flying Fortress as a belly gunner asked me...... Who would you rather have in a fox hole with you?.... Someone like Barack Obama? or, General McChrystal? Because all of the sudden we Americans are sure as FUCK in a fox hole. Better wise up quick my fellow American idiots.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 01:40AM by mcsmack.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let me ask a question? Just like my uncle who flew
> 37 missions over NAZI Germany in a B-17 Flying
> Fortress as a belly gunner asked me...... Who
> would you rather have in a fox hole with you?....
> Someone like Barack Obama? or, General McChrystal?
> Because all of the sudden we Americans are sure as
> FUCK in a fox hole. Better wise up quick my fellow
> American idiots.

Your uncle was in a plane and was fantasizing about being in foxholes? I suppose nobody ever asked and he never told.

GT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dane Bramage Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Major Malfunction Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > McChrystal is laughing all the way to the
> > bank.
> > > > Retired General's
> > > > pay and benefits aint shabby. He will
> command
> > > > enormous speakers
> > > > fees, write some books, and go on the talk
> > show
> > > > circuit. Obama
> > > > will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> > > > doesn't will trash him.
> > > > This is good.
> > >
> > > Plus a gig as a talking head on Fox News. The
> > > interview seems deliberate and a way to get
> out
> > > from under Obama's failed policy of a
> > > predetermined exit date.
> >
> >
> > Yeah..imagine the alternative....endless years
> of
> > fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan. But
> who
> > really cares...it isnt you doing the
> fighting...it
> > isnt my child. Hell you arent even paying for
> it.
> > Maybe JR's kid willdo the fighting.
>
>
> I suppose you like the other alternative....
>
>
>
>
>Just like I said, people like Vince (1) are here on earth for one purpose and one purpose only..... Just to watch it burn. And I question his Patriotism ( to the United States of America ) straight up.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 01:54AM by mcsmack.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let me ask a question? Just like my uncle who flew
> 37 missions over NAZI Germany in a B-17 Flying
> Fortress as a belly gunner asked me...... Who
> would you rather have in a fox hole with you?....
> Someone like Barack Obama? or, General McChrystal?
> Because all of the sudden we Americans are sure as
> FUCK in a fox hole. Better wise up quick my fellow
> American idiots.

FDR was in a wheelchair, so I probably wouldn't want him in a foxhole with me, but that doesn't change the fact he is seen as a great wartime president. There are different skills for different jobs. Of our 44 presidents, only a handful have been former generals.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Anybody who gives am interview to national media outlet, especially Rolling Stone Magazine and says "My boss is an idiot and the people I work are fools" should expect to there will be repercussions.

The last thing the Afghanistan people need to hear is that the US if failing in Afghanistan and go back to alliances with the Taliban.

McCrystal is a fucked up as a commander. He should of been fire LONG before now!

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mcsmack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Let me ask a question? Just like my uncle who
> flew
> > 37 missions over NAZI Germany in a B-17 Flying
> > Fortress as a belly gunner asked me...... Who
> > would you rather have in a fox hole with
> you?....
> > Someone like Barack Obama? or, General
> McChrystal?
> > Because all of the sudden we Americans are sure
> as
> > FUCK in a fox hole. Better wise up quick my
> fellow
> > American idiots.
>
> FDR was in a wheelchair, so I probably wouldn't
> want him in a foxhole with me, but that doesn't
> change the fact he is seen as a great wartime
> president. There are different skills for
> different jobs. Of our 44 presidents, only a
> handful have been former generals.


Absolutely. Good Generals rarely make good presidents i.e. Eisenhower.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Dane Bramage Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Major Malfunction Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > McChrystal is laughing all the way to the
> > > bank.
> > > > > Retired General's
> > > > > pay and benefits aint shabby. He will
> > command
> > > > > enormous speakers
> > > > > fees, write some books, and go on the
> talk
> > > show
> > > > > circuit. Obama
> > > > > will also be living in fear that
> McChrystal
> > > > > doesn't will trash him.
> > > > > This is good.
> > > >
> > > > Plus a gig as a talking head on Fox News.
> The
> > > > interview seems deliberate and a way to get
> > out
> > > > from under Obama's failed policy of a
> > > > predetermined exit date.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah..imagine the alternative....endless
> years
> > of
> > > fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan. But
> > who
> > > really cares...it isnt you doing the
> > fighting...it
> > > isnt my child. Hell you arent even paying
> for
> > it.
> > > Maybe JR's kid willdo the fighting.
> >
> >
> > I suppose you like the other alternative....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Just like I said, people like Vince (1) are here
> on earth for one purpose and one purpose only.....
> Just to watch it burn. And I question his
> Patriotism ( to the United States of America )
> straight up.


You quetion my patriotism! On what basis? Having a differnet opinion then yours? Is willingness to send someome else's child to war patriotic? Is it patriotic to not even help pay for the war? I question your definition of patriotism.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

people please start using e.g. where appropriate and not i.e. all of the time. it's almost as bad as when someone says irregardless or supposeably.

Jerry's Friend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dane Bramage Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Major Malfunction Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > McChrystal is laughing all the way to the
> > bank.
> > > > Retired General's
> > > > pay and benefits aint shabby. He will
> command
> > > > enormous speakers
> > > > fees, write some books, and go on the talk
> > show
> > > > circuit. Obama
> > > > will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> > > > doesn't will trash him.
> > > > This is good.
> > >
> > > Plus a gig as a talking head on Fox News. The
> > > interview seems deliberate and a way to get
> out
> > > from under Obama's failed policy of a
> > > predetermined exit date.
> >
> >
> > Yeah..imagine the alternative....endless years
> of
> > fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan. But
> who
> > really cares...it isnt you doing the
> fighting...it
> > isnt my child. Hell you arent even paying for
> it.
> > Maybe JR's kid willdo the fighting.
>
> You sure as Hell won't be doing any fighting
> either.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VNZk0lgvD4


Did I say I was? I say we get the fuck out of there...and half the other places we have troops stationed to "defend" our empire.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> >
> > FDR was in a wheelchair, so I probably wouldn't
> > want him in a foxhole with me, but that doesn't
> > change the fact he is seen as a great wartime
> > president. There are different skills for
> > different jobs. Of our 44 presidents, only a
> > handful have been former generals.
>
>
> Absolutely. Good Generals rarely make good
> presidents i.e. Eisenhower.

U.S. Grant

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

GT..cheap stupid shot..of course I do not look forward to any attack on American soil killing innocent lives. I also dont think 9/11 justifies what we have done to hundreds of thousands of innocent lives that we call the bi-prduct of war.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Lopter59 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody who gives am interview to national media
> outlet, especially Rolling Stone Magazine and says
> "My boss is an idiot and the people I work are
> fools" should expect to there will be
> repercussions.
>
> The last thing the Afghanistan people need to hear
> is that the US if failing in Afghanistan and go
> back to alliances with the Taliban.
>
> McCrystal is a fucked up as a commander. He
> should of been fire LONG before now!

He may well have fired himself on purpose over frustration with the new "rules of engagement" implemented by President Obama. Who cares what forum he used? Whether the Afghan people hear that were failing or not they certainly have eyes in their heads and can see all around them the results of these changes.

Look at a few of this Man's achievements.

As head of what Newsweek termed "the most secretive force in the U.S. military", McChrystal maintained a very low profile until June 2006, when his forces were responsible for the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq. After McChrystal's team successfully located Zarqawi and called in the airstrike that killed him, McChrystal accompanied his men to the bombed-out hut to personally identify the body.


According to Pulitzer Prize-winning Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward, beginning in late spring 2007 JSOC and CIA Special Activities Division teams launched a new series of highly effective covert operations that coincided with the Iraq War troop surge of 2007. They did this by killing or capturing many of the key al-Qa'ida leaders in Iraq. In a CBS 60 Minutes interview, Woodward described a new special operations capability that allowed for this success, noting that it was developed by the joint teams of CIA and JSOC. Several senior U.S. officials stated that the "joint efforts of JSOC and CIA paramilitary units were the most significant contributor to the defeat of al-Qa'ida in Iraq."

He definitely is not a "fuck up" as a commander. It is hard to command anything when your hands are tied behind your back and that is exactly what Barack Obama has done from the beginning by changing the rules of engagement and playing politics in responding to McChrystal's request for additional troops and equipment.He did this to try and show he was a wartime Commander and Chief, competent and in charge, by in the end not giving McChrystal everything he requested. Micro-managing war is not a good idea if you want to win. Ask Robert McNamara (currently residing in hell) he would tell you that in retrospect.

Barack Obama may well be better off without Gen. McChrystal as USFOR-A but he is the only one in America that is.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Barack Obama may well be better off without Gen.
> McChrystal as USFOR-A but he is the only one in
> America that is.


First, I see Petraeus as an upgrade because he understands the politics involved. For all of his experience, expertise and brilliance at military strategy, McChrystal didn't.

Second, I don't doubt that McChrystal had a brilliant career and was a huge asset to the American military. But as the old saying goes, it takes a lifetime to build a reputation, but only a minute to lose it. It is sad, but it's the truth.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Major Malfunction Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > McChrystal is laughing all the way to the bank.
> > Retired General's
> > pay and benefits aint shabby. He will command
> > enormous speakers
> > fees, write some books, and go on the talk show
> > circuit. Obama
> > will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> > doesn't will trash him.
> > This is good.
>
>
> Truman survived firing McArthuur a General with 10
> time more influence. Sooner or later the American
> public will tire of these American Ceasars. I
> hope it doesnt take a Hiroshima to get us there.


Say what??? Who are you kidding? There were widespread calls for Truman's impeachment after the firing of McArthur. His lowest approval rating in his presidency - and indeed the lowest approval rating for any president in the modern era - came not long after his firing of McArthur.

He lost the New Hampshire primary and was basically booted out of office.

You need to check your facts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 10:18AM by ITRADE.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GT..cheap stupid shot..of course I do not look
> forward to any attack on American soil killing
> innocent lives. I also dont think 9/11 justifies
> what we have done to hundreds of thousands of
> innocent lives that we call the bi-prduct of war.


So when you posted before that you regarded the 9/11 attacks as a product of freedom fighters, you are of the Islamic world opinion that those who died were not innocent lives, that they helped elect leaders that do whatever it is they are pissed about? You and Faisal Shahzad must be good buds.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37835250/ns/us_news-security/

Cedarbaum said: "But not the people who were walking in Times Square that night. Did you look around to see who they were?"

"Well, the people select the government," Shahzad said. "We consider them all the same."

this is no different than Mcarthur getting uppity with Truman. If Dug out Doug gets the sack then McChrystal can too.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

You quetion my patriotism! On what basis? Having a differnet opinion then yours? Is willingness to send someome else's child to war patriotic? Is it patriotic to not even help pay for the war? I question your definition of patriotism.






No Vince, I question your lack of patriotism because you can't name me one traditional American value, core belief or principal that YOU, and I emphasize YOU!!, not someome else's child, would fight and die for. You believe we have been an Imperialistic power causing most of the worlds problems from our foundation. A world which would be most likely better off without us.

Here is just one recent example of your hatred towards our country:

Vince: "Did I say I was? I say we get the fuck out of there...and half the other places we have troops stationed to "defend" our empire" [our empire]

See Vince, I know what you believe better than you do. As I've told you before I use to think just like you. You are no Patriot. The traditional definition of Patriotism repulses you and your ilk. That is the reason Liberals, Socialist and Neo-Socialists, Communists and left leaning Ideologues like yourself are in a never ending battle to redefine it.

And you are a coward for using the "other peoples children" tactic to shield your anti-American rhetoric. You fool no one but yourself.

You are not an American Patriot in any manner shape or form Vince. You are the antithesis and anathema to it. You are the enemy and damn proud of it.

For the persons saying generals make great presidents, I think Petraeus would make a better politician than this McChrystal.

Blessed are the murderous.

Have we completely ruled out Powell as an option or is he still on the table?

Gonads & Strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have we completely ruled out Powell as an option
> or is he still on the table?


I think he will always be associated with Bush now....

Blessed are the murderous.

That's a shame... I've always felt that he was the most level-headed of that group. I always feel that had Powell been named VP instead of Vader the war in Iraq would have been handled much differently (if at all).

Gonads & Strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a shame... I've always felt that he was the
> most level-headed of that group. I always feel
> that had Powell been named VP instead of Vader the
> war in Iraq would have been handled much
> differently (if at all).


Rumor is Powell has a smoking bimbo problem and a wife who is a little unstable. Not a good mix for a national campaign run.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

I've heard that about his wife too. But hey, if we learned nothing else from this past POTUS campaign it's that unstable females are quite entertaining whilst in the national spotlight!

I saw this coming. Most people saw this coming.

When Obama chose the current strategy, he actually spoke to Gates and McChrystal in the Oval Office. He explained his decision and asked them both whether they agreed or disagreed, and whether either would have any problems supporting his position. Neither wanted to foreclose on their mortgages, so they agreed. Now Mcshuyster decides he's not so cool with all of that, so he snuck off to some obscure magazine and started talking shit.

So Obama fired his ass for insubordination.

He got what he agreed to get.....

I can't find the Time magazine article from Jaunuary or so, but basically, Obama took McChrystal and Gates into his office and asked them if they agreed with his decision on Afghanistan, and when Gates said yes and McChrystal said no, he asked them both if they would rather resign than to accept his decision, they both said, emphatically, "No sir, We support you wholeheartedly"

Niggerheaded Kenyan Socialist Obama then asked, "Even if you disagree with me, do you believe that you can execute this plan? Should I find others who can? Do you believe that you can achieve your goals as I've stated them?"

Both Gates and McKoward stated, emphatically, that they disagreed, but would fulfill this nations plans, as stated by their commander in chief.

So when McChrystal waffled, and had second thoughts, and didn't stick with his gut, and began to actually think about it, and then became insubordinate to his commander in chief, well, that is what got his ass fired.

The dude promised the CINC that he would support this position with zero prejudice, IN THE OVAL OFFICE, and then he went ahead and second guessed his commander in chief... hey bushie supporters, let's be intellectually honest here and have a consistent point of view... Obama fired his ass. He demanded his resignation, then played it out like it was not his ultimate demand.

McChrystal violated a sacred trust between military commanders and their elected leaders. McChrystal started to believe he wasn't a US Military leader, and thought that maybe he could enjoy the same power that a North Korean or Saudi Arabian commander enjoys, that of an instigator against the monarchy or the regime controlling the military. And even those guys get sacked, sometimes executed. But all he was trying to do was to gumm up the works, interfere with his CINC's plans, throw a wrench in the nigger plans of nigger presidents. You know? SO is that so bad? I mean, gay marriage. Abortion. immigration. Hate them because of that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 12:39PM by Hal I. Burton.

Gonads & Strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a shame... I've always felt that he was the
> most level-headed of that group. I always feel
> that had Powell been named VP instead of Vader the
> war in Iraq would have been handled much
> differently (if at all).

Powell endorsed Obama during the election. He supports Brady style gun control and the repeal of DADT. He could run as a Democrat but he's shit on the Republican's list now.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gonads & Strife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's a shame... I've always felt that he was
> the
> > most level-headed of that group. I always feel
> > that had Powell been named VP instead of Vader
> the
> > war in Iraq would have been handled much
> > differently (if at all).
>
>
> Rumor is Powell has a smoking bimbo problem and a
> wife who is a little unstable. Not a good mix for
> a national campaign run.


It would definitely make it interesting

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> You quetion my patriotism! On what basis? Having a
> differnet opinion then yours? Is willingness to
> send someome else's child to war patriotic? Is it
> patriotic to not even help pay for the war? I
> question your definition of patriotism.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No Vince, I question your lack of patriotism
> because you can't name me one traditional American
> value, core belief or principal that YOU, and I
> emphasize YOU!!, not someome else's child, would
> fight and die for. You believe we have been an
> Imperialistic power causing most of the worlds
> problems from our foundation. A world which would
> be most likely better off without us.
>
> Here is just one recent example of your hatred
> towards our country:
>
> Vince: "Did I say I was? I say we get the fuck out
> of there...and half the other places we have
> troops stationed to "defend" our empire"
>
> See Vince, I know what you believe better than
> you do. As I've told you before I use to think
> just like you. You are no Patriot. The traditional
> definition of Patriotism repulses you and your
> ilk. That is the reason Liberals, Socialist and
> Neo-Socialists, Communists and left leaning
> Ideologues like yourself are in a never ending
> battle to redefine it.
>
> And you are a coward for using the "other peoples
> children" tactic to shield your anti-American
> rhetoric. You fool no one but yourself.
>
> You are not an American Patriot in any manner
> shape or form Vince. You are the antithesis and
> anathema to it. You are the enemy and damn proud
> of it.


Impearialism is not an American value. This country has a long history of staying the fuck out of other peoples business. Only since WW II have we taken on the militaristic values you hold so dear. Our founding father feared what a standing Army might do to a republic..they were right. So..take you nuevo "american" values and shove them up your imperialist ass.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Major Malfunction Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > McChrystal is laughing all the way to the
> bank.
> > > Retired General's
> > > pay and benefits aint shabby. He will command
> > > enormous speakers
> > > fees, write some books, and go on the talk
> show
> > > circuit. Obama
> > > will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> > > doesn't will trash him.
> > > This is good.
> >
> >
> > Truman survived firing McArthuur a General with
> 10
> > time more influence. Sooner or later the
> American
> > public will tire of these American Ceasars. I
> > hope it doesnt take a Hiroshima to get us
> there.
>
>
> Say what??? Who are you kidding? There were
> widespread calls for Truman's impeachment after
> the firing of McArthur. His lowest approval
> rating in his presidency - and indeed the lowest
> approval rating for any president in the modern
> era - came not long after his firing of McArthur.
>
> He lost the New Hampshire primary and was
> basically booted out of office.
>
> You need to check your facts.


Booted out? He had his 2 terms...and who in history is regarded more highly...the neo-fascist McArthur or Truman? Truman..by far. Sir..it is you has to understand the important events of history. Loosing a state primary is meaningless when you win the nomination and win a second term...and history considers you on of the top Presidents.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 05:27PM by Vince(1).

McCrystal should of got a good ass kicking!

One for doing an interview with Rolling Stone Magazine and two for making negative comments about the US Military. He's a fucking solider for Christ sakes!

Kick this moron to the curb!

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Impearialism is not an American value. This
> country has a long history of staying the fuck out
> of other peoples business. Only since WW II have
> we taken on the militaristic values you hold so
> dear. Our founding father feared what a standing
> Army might do to a republic..they were right.
> So..take you nuevo "american" values and shove
> them up your imperialist ass.

What crazy tripe! You are truly hopeless Hoss.

Neither is an isolationist and xenophobic foreign policy an American value Vinnie my man. History is replete with failures condemning millions to their death using your style of dealing with dangerous regimes.

Ask the 45 million people or so now free in Iraq if we're an Imperialist power.

Truth is Vinnie your soul is as dark as 10,000 midnights, Your "views" are anarchistic and an enemy to freedom and traditional American values.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 06:23PM by mcsmack.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Impearialism is not an American value. This
> > country has a long history of staying the fuck
> out
> > of other peoples business. Only since WW II
> have
> > we taken on the militaristic values you hold so
> > dear. Our founding father feared what a
> standing
> > Army might do to a republic..they were right.
> > So..take you nuevo "american" values and shove
> > them up your imperialist ass.
>
> What crazy tripe! You are truly hopeless Hoss.
>
> Neither is an isolationist and xenophobic foreign
> policy an American value Vinnie my man. History is
> replete with failures condemning millions to their
> death using your style of dealing with dangerous
> regimes.
>
> Ask the 45 million people or so now free in Iraq
> if we're an Imperialist power.
>
> Truth is Vinnie your soul is as dark as 10,000
> midnights, Your "views" are anarchistic and an
> enemy to freedom and traditional American values.


Id love to ask the 45 million remaining people of Iraq what they think of our invasion. Seems to me they are anxiously awaiting our departure. If it takes proclaiming victory in Iraq to convince the idiots like you that we should leave...fine...we won...now lets get the fuck out. In reality I suspect very few people in Iraq see our efforts a s avictory. The war has increased Iran's influence in the area....it will take years after our departure to see if any form of democracy has actually taken hold. The odds are Iraq will have a slow burning Civil War after our departure...and then who knows what.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

hey Vince you wanna keep it down? IM over in the Mead coming to Alexandria thread and I cant hear myself type over your griping, ok? thanks bye.

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey Vince you wanna keep it down? IM over in the
> Mead coming to Alexandria thread and I cant hear
> myself type over your griping, ok? thanks bye.


Must be tough when others are fighting for your fat ass!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mcsmack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > Impearialism is not an American value. This
> > > country has a long history of staying the
> fuck
> > out
> > > of other peoples business. Only since WW II
> > have
> > > we taken on the militaristic values you hold
> so
> > > dear. Our founding father feared what a
> > standing
> > > Army might do to a republic..they were right.
>
> > > So..take you nuevo "american" values and
> shove
> > > them up your imperialist ass.
> >
> > What crazy tripe! You are truly hopeless Hoss.
> >
> > Neither is an isolationist and xenophobic
> foreign
> > policy an American value Vinnie my man. History
> is
> > replete with failures condemning millions to
> their
> > death using your style of dealing with
> dangerous
> > regimes.
> >
> > Ask the 45 million people or so now free in
> Iraq
> > if we're an Imperialist power.
> >
> > Truth is Vinnie your soul is as dark as 10,000
> > midnights, Your "views" are anarchistic and an
> > enemy to freedom and traditional American
> values.
>
>
> Id love to ask the 45 million remaining people of
> Iraq what they think of our invasion. Seems to me
> they are anxiously awaiting our departure. If it
> takes proclaiming victory in Iraq to convince the
> idiots like you that we should leave...fine...we
> won...now lets get the fuck out. In reality I
> suspect very few people in Iraq see our efforts a
> s avictory. The war has increased Iran's
> influence in the area....it will take years after
> our departure to see if any form of democracy has
> actually taken hold. The odds are Iraq will have
> a slow burning Civil War after our departure...and
> then who knows what.

I still Luv Ya Vin baby! you're just 180 degrees outta phase brutha. Have a good weekend. Go find some babes on a boat or something.

iraq...boy..are they better off!

limited movement toward free elections, a parliamentary democracy and free press. Such benefits must be weighed against the suffering of millions of innocent Iraqis, including:


—Nearly 5 million refugees: “Counting both internal and external refugees, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) estimates that nearly 5 million of Iraq’s population of 24 million have been uprooted during the conflict,” the N.Y. Review of Books reported on May 13, 2010. This is the equivalent of 60 million Americans by percentage of population. Five-hundred thousand are homeless squatters within Iraq, whose "settlements all lack basic services, including water, sanitation and electricity and are built in precarious places—under bridges, alongside railroad tracks and amongst garbage dumps" according to Refugees International in March 2010. The emigration of 2-3 million Iraqis to refugee camps in Syria and other Mideast countries decimated Iraq’s educated middle class, with some daughters forced to become prostitutes and sons menial laborers just to keep their families alive.


—Hundreds of thousands dead and wounded: Estimates of dead civilians range from 100,000 documented cases by Iraq Body Count, which acknowledged in October 2004 that “our own total is certain to be an underestimate of the true position, because of gaps in reporting or recording” to over one million by a John Hopkins University group. A basic rule of thumb in war is that for every person killed, two have been wounded.


—Tens of thousands of innocents imprisoned, many tortured: In an article headlined "In Iraq, A Prison Full of Innocent Men," the Washington Post reported that "100,000 prisoners have passed through the American-run detention system in Iraq," that Iraqi Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi says that "most of the people they detain are innocent,” but that prisoners are not permitted to prove their innocence. Conditions have been even worse in the secret torture chambers run for five years by General Stanley McChrystal, from which all outside observers including the Red Cross have been excluded. Salon’s Glenn Greenwald recently reported that "72% of Guantanamo detainees who finally were able to obtain just minimal due process—after years of being in a cage without charges—have been found by federal judges to be wrongfully detained." Countless innocent Iraqis have been regularly tortured.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 09:18PM by Vince(1).

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> iraq...boy..are they better off!
>


Yeah! How 'bout them Kurds!!!!

Gas 'em. Gas 'em til they choke.

Oh wait, that stopped. I wonder why.

Kurdy Boy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > iraq...boy..are they better off!
> >
>
>
> Yeah! How 'bout them Kurds!!!!
>
> Gas 'em. Gas 'em til they choke.
>
> Oh wait, that stopped. I wonder why.


Because we stopped selling the Iraquis the gas!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Where's registered Voter?

I expected RV to post something like "McChrystal resigned from Obama because he doesn't want to work Obama!"

Lopter32 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where's registered Voter?
>
> I expected RV to post something like "McChrystal
> resigned from Obama because he doesn't want to
> work Obama!"

Huh?

No, I have been busy so watching Vince flail around with other posters is always entertaining.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

You all can try and justify your conciouses..but the truth is...the is nothing good that comes from invading and occupying another country....it flies in the face of...life, liberty and pursuit of happiness...if we were talking about our Revolutionary War...we are the English.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 09:53PM by Vince(1).

Based on what McChrystal has been doing for the last few years, it is not surprising he was feeling disillusioned with how Obama has been handling things. The fact that he allowed the comments to be made in front of a reporter from Rolling Stone was the height of stupidity.

But now the war in Afghanistan is all about minimizing civilian casualties - which is when we start getting in to trouble. Instead of fighting where we need to fight, and doing what they need to do to get the job done, every decision becomes an exercise in getting permission to get fire support. That is when people get killed on our side - in many cases for the wrong reasons. That is something we should all be concerned about - when a war becomes political, it isn't a war anymore, it is a game of survival for our troops.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You all can try and justify your conciouses..but
> the truth is...the is nothing good that comes from
> invading and occupying another country....it flies
> in the face of...life, liberty and pursuit of
> happiness...if we were talking about our
> Revolutionary War...we are the English.

Hey Vince - how bout you step off your retard for a moment, and put things in perspective. Iraq was a clusterfuck before we got there - Saddam was fucking his own people over, he was supporting terrorists in Israel, and he was working overtime to try and bribe his way out of UN sanctions that had been put in place since the first Iraq war. The fact is, Iraq was going to be our problem at some point one way or another - we were still maintaining the no fly zones so we had troops in harms way over there all the time. Iran was already on the way to becoming the local bad guy, and our only other option would have been to back peddle at some point and either embrace Iraq again (which is obvious from your current and past comments a stupid idea) or we would go in to finish what we started and hope for the best.

The other thing you are not seeing past, is that the Middle East was certain to become a battle ground. You have Russia, China, Europe, and the US all trying to exert influence there to gain economic control of the Oil - which unfortunately we all need. That isn't going to change in the near future - even with you railing on here day and night to embrace green technologies - even if they completely agreed with your beliefs on policy - Oil will not go away as a needed resource. Too many things (beyond just energy) depend on it.

But hey, keep living your pipe dream - that is all you seem to know. Unfortunately the world does not, and NEVER HAS worked the way you believe it should. Never. You want utopia - I would suggest you stick to watching Star Trek re-runs. But your lack of acknowledgment of reality is not going to lead to the world becoming the way you want it. Count on it.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Before our invasion Iraq was not a security risk to the U.S....end of story! The world does not work the way I want? What I want...not to be a repressive empire.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 11:09PM by Vince(1).

Vince(1) Wrote:
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> Before our invasion Iraq was not a security risk
> to the U.S....end of story! The world does not
> work the way I want? What I want...not to be a
> repressive empire.

Great Vince - you are not a repressive empire. Happy now? lol - what a fucknut ;)

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Vince(1) Wrote:
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> GT..cheap stupid shot..of course I do not look
> forward to any attack on American soil killing
> innocent lives. I also dont think 9/11 justifies
> what we have done to hundreds of thousands of
> innocent lives that we call the bi-prduct of war.

Riiiight, we should just turn the other cheek, because that is what our enemy does. It is hardly a "cheap stupid shot," it is the reality of the situation we find ouselves in.

Lopter32 Wrote:
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> Where's registered Voter?
>
> I expected RV to post something like "McChrystal
> resigned from Obama because he doesn't want to
> work Obama!"

Have you ever learned to write correctly?

Sorry Lopter.....


Our new Louisiana poll has a lot of data points to show how unhappy voters in the state are with Barack Obama's handling of the oil spill but one perhaps sums it up better than anything else- a majority of voters there think George W. Bush did a better job with Katrina than Obama's done dealing with the spill.

50% of voters in the state, even including 31% of Democrats, give Bush higher marks on that question compared to 35% who pick Obama.

Overall only 32% of Louisianans approve of how Obama has handled the spill to 62% who disapprove. 34% of those polled say they approved of how Bush dealt with Katrina to 58% who disapproved.

Another interesting part of the poll, 77% of voters still support it with only 12% against. Only 31% say the spill has made them less inclined to be in favor of drilling while 42% say it hasn't made a difference to them and 28% say they're now stronger in their support.

One more thing. lopter, please answer the following:

1) Which Republican said the following?

“We want to be careful before we change any of these laws that we don’t jeopardize the operations of an ongoing industry, because there are 4,000 other wells in the Gulf that have to go on.”


2) Why didn't the Obama administration support the legislation that you claim would clean up the gulf?


3) Which is the most difficult hole on the back nine at Ft. Belvoir.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
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> Rumor is Powell has a smoking bimbo problem and a
> wife who is a little unstable. Not a good mix for
> a national campaign run.

Al Gore?

Lopter32 Wrote:
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> Where's registered Voter?
>
> I expected RV to post something like "McChrystal
> resigned from Obama because he doesn't want to
> work Obama!"

What does "work Obama" mean?

gay gay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lopter32 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Where's registered Voter?
> >
> > I expected RV to post something like
> "McChrystal
> > resigned from Obama because he doesn't want to
> > work Obama!"
>
> What does "work Obama" mean?

You know, "worked," the way Al Gore wanted to be "worked." Lopter wants to "work" Obama that way.

Any higher ups in the military that like this presidency? JW

Vince(1) Wrote:
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> ferfux Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hey Vince you wanna keep it down? IM over in
> the
> > Mead coming to Alexandria thread and I cant
> hear
> > myself type over your griping, ok? thanks bye.
>
>
> Must be tough when others are fighting for your
> fat ass!

you love my sexy ass Vince.

McChrystal bailed out because he knows Obama's policies will not work
and he doesn't want to be the General who lost the war. No brainer there.
Now it's Obama and Petraeus to take the heat.

GT Wrote:
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> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GT..cheap stupid shot..of course I do not look
> > forward to any attack on American soil killing
> > innocent lives. I also dont think 9/11
> justifies
> > what we have done to hundreds of thousands of
> > innocent lives that we call the bi-prduct of
> war.
>
> Riiiight, we should just turn the other cheek,
> because that is what our enemy does. It is hardly
> a "cheap stupid shot," it is the reality of the
> situation we find ouselves in.

We should have let the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor. Stupid imperialist outpost.

OgeeOne-07 Wrote:
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> McChrystal bailed out because he knows Obama's
> policies will not work
> and he doesn't want to be the General who lost the
> war. No brainer there.
> Now it's Obama and Petraeus to take the heat.

There are more strategic and less embarrassing ways for a General to do that. In fact, I am sure it happens all of the time with no fanfare. The optics of this are that McChrystal was taken to the woodshed. If that was a calculation on his part, he deserves to be gone.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ITRADE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Major Malfunction Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > McChrystal is laughing all the way to the
> > bank.
> > > > Retired General's
> > > > pay and benefits aint shabby. He will
> command
> > > > enormous speakers
> > > > fees, write some books, and go on the talk
> > show
> > > > circuit. Obama
> > > > will also be living in fear that McChrystal
> > > > doesn't will trash him.
> > > > This is good.
> > >
> > >
> > > Truman survived firing McArthuur a General
> with
> > 10
> > > time more influence. Sooner or later the
> > American
> > > public will tire of these American Ceasars.
> I
> > > hope it doesnt take a Hiroshima to get us
> > there.
> >
> >
> > Say what??? Who are you kidding? There were
> > widespread calls for Truman's impeachment after
> > the firing of McArthur. His lowest approval
> > rating in his presidency - and indeed the
> lowest
> > approval rating for any president in the modern
> > era - came not long after his firing of
> McArthur.
> >
> > He lost the New Hampshire primary and was
> > basically booted out of office.
> >
> > You need to check your facts.
>
>
> Booted out? He had his 2 terms...and who in
> history is regarded more highly...the neo-fascist
> McArthur or Truman? Truman..by far. Sir..it is
> you has to understand the important events of
> history. Loosing a state primary is meaningless
> when you win the nomination and win a second
> term...and history considers you on of the top
> Presidents.

Truman could have had a THIRD term but he was totally obliterated in the primaries and was an albatross to the Democratic party.

The firing of McArthur came during his second term and he was standing for re-election after the firing. And failed, miserably.

You simply do not comprehend history very well, do you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2010 11:04AM by ITRADE.

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Truman could have had a THIRD term but he was
> totally obliterated in the primaries and was an
> albatross to the Democratic party.
>
> The firing of McArthur came during his second term
> and he was standing for re-election after the
> firing. And failed, miserably.
>
> You simply do not comprehend history very well, do
> you?

I think it is safe to say that neither Truman nor MacArthur benefited from the firing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ITRADE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Truman could have had a THIRD term but he was
> > totally obliterated in the primaries and was an
> > albatross to the Democratic party.
> >
> > The firing of McArthur came during his second
> term
> > and he was standing for re-election after the
> > firing. And failed, miserably.
> >
> > You simply do not comprehend history very well,
> do
> > you?
>
> I think it is safe to say that neither Truman nor
> MacArthur benefited from the firing.


How did Truman suffer in the long run? It actually strengthened his presidential "credentials"...no one wants an American Ceasar.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.