Can A Muslim Be A Real American?
Author Unknown
12-13-9


I sent this question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:


Theologically? No, because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously? No, because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam.

Scripturally? No, because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically? No, because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially? No, because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically? No, because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically? No, because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him.

Intellectually? No, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically? No, because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually? No, because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation...perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.

Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

http://usmilvets.org/index.php?topic=1663.0

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

reel American Wrote:
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> mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation
> of Israel and Destruction of America, the great
> Satan.




"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I would say that Muslims can be real Americans, but it doesn't mean that some of them don't in fact believe that they never really can. THEY are the ones you have to watch out for, just like that Muslim preacher in the UK (I put his video on here somewhere).

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Someone please define "real American."

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

John Adams asked the same question of roman catholics.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

MrMephisto Wrote:
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> Someone please define "real American."

i'm going to take a stab at it. a person who believes in the original principles outlined in the constitution. (guess where you anti-gun people lie.)


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Yes the original principles: only white landowners can vote and a black man is 3/5ths of a white one.

Johnny Walker Wrote:
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> Yes the original principles: only white
> landowners can vote and a black man is 3/5ths of a
> white one.

i dont see that anywhere in the constitution.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

As Christians seem to have overcome scripture's prohibition against charging interest I suspect many of these issues with the Muslims are moot as well.

By the way do you think Jeasus Christ could be a real American? He would certainly be called a liberal (read commie or socialist) and of course he was born in the Mid East.

Jesus would not be considered a "Real Amurrrrcan." He would have Middle Eastern features, olive skin, and advocate allegiance to God and himself over any other instution, including this earthly federal government.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

I think a lot of people get confused between arab people and muslims. I have no problem with any arab that isn't muslim. That WOULD be racism. But since Islam is NOT a race, it's perfectly fine to disagree with their MO.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason for a muslim to ever even want to come to America. Our constitution, government, cultures, entertainment, food and just about everything else goes against everything they believe in. So why come here?
Right now, most of Europe and Asia are struggling to figure out what to do with the islamic political system disguised as and given protection as a religion.

What people consider a "real American" is debatable. What's NOT debatable is that Islam has no intention of EVER becoming part of America. It wants to be ALL of America. And to anyone that thinks I'm full of shit, ask ANY fucking cleric. They make no effort to hide their intentions, which is why I'm so puzzled that people keep appeasing them.

MrMephisto Wrote:
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> Someone please define "real American."



Easy enough!!



__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

"One nation under God" was added in the 1940s. "In God we trust" was added to all the money around the same time.

"God" is not mentioned in the constitution. "Creator" is, and there is a difference.

The one thing in the constitution in quotes is the oath the President takes. And God or creator is not in the oath.

So all you "our country was founded on Christian or Judeo/Christian beliefs" people are sadly un-informed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2009 06:25AM by Radiophile.

MrMephisto Wrote:
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>
> Someone please define "real American."


Attachments:

TheMeeper Wrote:
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> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Someone please define "real American."
>
>

By that standard, nobody but the Hulkster is a real American.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "One nation under God" was added in the 1940s. "In
> God we trust" was added to all the money around
> the same time.
>
> "God" is not mentioned in the constitution.
> "Creator" is, and there is a difference.
>
> The one thing in the constitution in quotes is the
> oath the President takes. And God or creator is
> not in the oath.
>
> So all you "our country was founded on Christian
> or Judeo/Christian beliefs" people are sadly
> un-informed.

The "Creator" though was an appeasement to all the Deists in the group. Not all of them believed in the Trinity of Christ, but all of them believed in some way, shape or form of a "creator". But in reality, all the folks that took part in creation of the Constitution had, as their basis, background, and upbringing - Christian values and morals - that was the basis of most governments in the European area at the time due to the Catholics and the Church of England. As far as the Age of Enlightenment goes, we had this discussion before - France choose a totally secular government, England was already religious-biased with the Church of England. The US went a slightly different route - they didn't want to reject God and the religious beliefs that got them to the New World, but at the same time they knew they had to embrace ALL religions, much like the Romans tried to do. Based on their experiences in Europe, they knew they didn't want an oppressive State religion as England had adopted, thus the separation of church and state. Forcing people to adopt a religion is along the same lines of making government replace religion.

Look at the Treaty of Tripoli. They state that the government of the US is NOT founded on the Christian Religion. That is absolutely true.

Quote

...
Article 11

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
...

But that is a totally different thing then saying the government of the US was founded on Judeo/Christian VALUES. As such, there is no enmity to Muslim religions, as there is no religion driving the US government to take action against other religions. I am sure any agreement the Barbary pirates made with England would have been totally different.

"In God We Trust" was added to our money during the Civil War btw - not 1940.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2009 10:05AM by Registered Voter.

Timothy McVeigh was a raised a catholic and certainly qualified as a 'real American' hero. He was that before things went horribly wrong.

"He was a decorated veteran of the United States Army, having served in the Gulf War, where he was awarded a Bronze Star. He had been a top-scoring gunner with the 25mm cannon of the Bradley Fighting Vehicles used by the U.S. 1st Infantry Division to which he was assigned. He served at Fort Riley, Kansas, before Operation Desert Storm. At Fort Riley, McVeigh completed the Primary Leadership Development Course (PLDC). McVeigh later would say that the Army taught him how to switch off his emotions.[6] He had special lifesaving training and may have saved the life of a comrade who had life-threatening shrapnel wounds."

I think trying to vet out whom is or can be a 'real American' is a bit more complicated than Muslim/non-Muslim...

McVeigh is a completely different issue. While he committed a terrorist act, it was not due to a religious difference, or a religious imperative. He was a nut.

Wiki:

Quote

Motive

Retaliation for the Waco Siege, Ruby Ridge and other government raids, as well as general U.S. foreign policy

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2009 02:14PM by Registered Voter.

As if 9/11 had anything to do with religion. In the case of modern muslim radicalism...religion is a means for a political end. It is poverty, lack of opportunity...and a desire to get US soliders off of foreign lands that is the cause...not their religion.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As if 9/11 had anything to do with religion. In
> the case of modern muslim radicalism...religion is
> a means for a political end. It is poverty, lack
> of opportunity...and a desire to get US soliders
> off of foreign lands that is the cause...not their
> religion.


I disagree. I believe it's both. In fact, with Islam you can't have one without the other.

So, if I convert to Islam, do I have to turn in my Real American card?

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
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> So, if I convert to Islam, do I have to turn in my
> Real American card?


Yes, you'll also have to turn in your "Real Human Being" card too if you convert.
In fact, just kill yourself.......but don't kill other people in the process.......unless their other muslims.

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So, if I convert to Islam, do I have to turn in
> my
> > Real American card?
>
>
> Yes, you'll also have to turn in your "Real Human
> Being" card too if you convert.
> In fact, just kill yourself.......but don't kill
> other people in the process.......unless their
> other muslims.

When I convert, I'm going to jihad you first, infidel.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When I convert, I'm going to jihad you first,
> infidel.


LOL. Seems only fair, but you'll have to get in line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2009 02:40PM by Numbers.

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As if 9/11 had anything to do with religion.
> In
> > the case of modern muslim radicalism...religion
> is
> > a means for a political end. It is poverty,
> lack
> > of opportunity...and a desire to get US
> soliders
> > off of foreign lands that is the cause...not
> their
> > religion.
>
>
> I disagree. I believe it's both. In fact, with
> Islam you can't have one without the other.


If you are correct...there is no more an association between muslims and politics then there is between christianity and politics. After all we do live in christian country and we do inspire our young people to fight and die for god and country.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you are correct...there is no more an
> association between muslims and politics then
> there is between christianity and politics. After
> all we do live in christian country and we do
> inspire our young people to fight and die for god
> and country.


I don't like christianity in government either, but although much of our government is comprised of christians, the wars we wage are not as a result of or promotion for it. Islam, the religion, legal system and government base everything around the hadith and the quran. In this country, no one REALLY gives a shit about the bible until they're in trouble. The rest of the time it's anything goes.

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > If you are correct...there is no more an
> > association between muslims and politics then
> > there is between christianity and politics.
> After
> > all we do live in christian country and we do
> > inspire our young people to fight and die for
> god
> > and country.
>
>
> I don't like christianity in government either,
> but although much of our government is comprised
> of christians, the wars we wage are not as a
> result of or promotion for it. Islam, the
> religion, legal system and government base
> everything around the hadith and the quran. In
> this country, no one REALLY gives a shit about the
> bible until they're in trouble. The rest of the
> time it's anything goes.


Well again...dont confuse what you experience here in the DC area as represnting the entire US. I think there are a lot of god fearing...muslim killing christians out there.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Numbers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > If you are correct...there is no more an
> > > association between muslims and politics then
> > > there is between christianity and politics.
> > After
> > > all we do live in christian country and we do
> > > inspire our young people to fight and die for
> > god
> > > and country.
> >
> >
> > I don't like christianity in government either,
> > but although much of our government is
> comprised
> > of christians, the wars we wage are not as a
> > result of or promotion for it. Islam, the
> > religion, legal system and government base
> > everything around the hadith and the quran. In
> > this country, no one REALLY gives a shit about
> the
> > bible until they're in trouble. The rest of the
> > time it's anything goes.
>
>
> Well again...dont confuse what you experience here
> in the DC area as represnting the entire US. I
> think there are a lot of god fearing...muslim
> killing christians out there.


When was the last time you honestly heard of a Christian blowing up a suicide vest in a crowded market, or placing a bomb in their baby's stroller? Yes, of course there are Christians who kill Muslims, and Lebanon happens to be a prime example of that, as does Nigeria. Still, they never adopted the same range of tactics though.

The Ayatollah calls for people to be slaughtered, while the Pope calls for "World Peace", and for people to help with curing Diseases, and to take care of the Environment. I call that a most notable difference.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

So what's the solution, PackLeader? Genocide?

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

ThePackLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Numbers Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Vince(1) Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > > If you are correct...there is no more an
> > > > association between muslims and politics
> then
> > > > there is between christianity and politics.
>
> > > After
> > > > all we do live in christian country and we
> do
> > > > inspire our young people to fight and die
> for
> > > god
> > > > and country.
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't like christianity in government
> either,
> > > but although much of our government is
> > comprised
> > > of christians, the wars we wage are not as a
> > > result of or promotion for it. Islam, the
> > > religion, legal system and government base
> > > everything around the hadith and the quran.
> In
> > > this country, no one REALLY gives a shit
> about
> > the
> > > bible until they're in trouble. The rest of
> the
> > > time it's anything goes.
> >
> >
> > Well again...dont confuse what you experience
> here
> > in the DC area as represnting the entire US. I
> > think there are a lot of god fearing...muslim
> > killing christians out there.
>
>
> When was the last time you honestly heard of a
> Christian blowing up a suicide vest in a crowded
> market, or placing a bomb in their baby's
> stroller? Yes, of course there are Christians who
> kill Muslims, and Lebanon happens to be a prime
> example of that, as does Nigeria. Still, they
> never adopted the same range of tactics though.
>
> The Ayatollah calls for people to be slaughtered,
> while the Pope calls for "World Peace", and for
> people to help with curing Diseases, and to take
> care of the Environment. I call that a most
> notable difference.


Well..you really answered your own question...your qualifiers of "they never adopted the same range of tactics"...if they didnt it's becasue they didnt have to....thats all.

You dont think there's a Ayatollah out there who isnt calling for world peace? Of course there is.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You dont think there's a Ayatollah out there who
> isnt calling for world peace? Of course there is.


Sure, AFTER the rest of the world converts to islam, NOT BEFORE! Seriously Vince, find just one islamic cleric that doesn't believe that islam will dominate us all one day. If they don't believe this, they are frauds and probably have fatwas issued against them.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what's the solution, PackLeader? Genocide?

Xenocide because you're all a bunch of bastards.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > You dont think there's a Ayatollah out there
> who
> > isnt calling for world peace? Of course there
> is.
>
>
> Sure, AFTER the rest of the world converts to
> islam, NOT BEFORE! Seriously Vince, find just one
> islamic cleric that doesn't believe that islam
> will dominate us all one day. If they don't
> believe this, they are frauds and probably have
> fatwas issued against them.

tell me one christian leader that doesnt believe that with the second cumming of christ all non-believers will be cast to hell and christ will rule the world for a mellenium.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

here you go...took me 5 minutes to find

Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Hossein Kazemeyni Boroujerdi is an Iranian Muslim cleric who advocates the separation of religion and government. He first expressed his opposition to the Islamic government of Iran in 1994. He wrote to Pope Benedict XVI and the European Union to complain about the suspicious circumstances surrounding the death of his father Ayatollah Seyyed Mohammad Ali Kazemeini Boroujerdi in 2002, the subsequent confiscation of his father's mosque, and his own and his followers' harassment by Iran's theocratical government.

He opposes the theocratic concept of rule or "guardianship" by Islamic jurists. He said Iranians are "tired of the religion of politics and political slogans." The Iranians "believe that they are loyal to the fundamentals of the true religion and the Prophet's mission, but they are opposed to the politicization of religion and its exploitation by a group that has nothing to do with true Islam. Islam is the religion of tolerance, forbearance, and mercy, to the point where [the Qur'an] emphasized to us that 'there is no compulsion in religion."[1]"

Boroujerdi and many of his followers were arrested in Tehran on October 8, 2006, following a clash between police and hundreds of his followers. Iranian officials charged him with having claimed to be a representative of the hidden Imam, (a venerated figure in Shia Islam), charges he denies.[2] According to mardaninews website, as of 1 June 2008 "judicial authorities have released no information concerning his prosecution" and his medical condition is deteriorating.[3]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hossein_Kazemeyni_Boroujerdi

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2009 07:13PM by Vince(1).

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tell me one christian leader that doesnt believe
> that with the second cumming of christ all
> non-believers will be cast to hell and christ will
> rule the world for a mellenium.

I suspect that millennialism (or chiliasm, i.e., the view that Christ will rule the world the rule for a thousand years at the second coming) is a minority view among Christian leaders. It's formally rejected by Catholics, so the pope would be one. I believe the Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) reject it also.

Muslims are filthy. THeir women are hairy and smelly.