Reported in the Huffington Post of all places.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html

Paging Vince...

Shocking...deals are being made!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

You're right VInce it is shocking because they're evil Republikans selling out to big corporations right?

The very same thing you would be yelling from the treetops over if this were McCain, but obviously the messiah can do no wrong.

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're right VInce it is shocking because they're
> evil Republikans selling out to big corporations
> right?
>
> The very same thing you would be yelling from the
> treetops over if this were McCain, but obviously
> the messiah can do no wrong.

vince, i have to agree, if think your judgment of politics is defined merely on a party line basis. i hope you reconsider your views of what the current administration has been doing.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Politics is the art of the possible. If the only way to make significant progress on health care is to make a deal with the drug companies...so be it.

Sometimes progress is made over time....over various administrations. I would not want to kill this initiaitive over any particular provision..including single payer...which I believe in very strongly. I believe in it so strongly I am convinced that if we dont get it this time...we will eventually.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 10:52PM by Alias.

Moral relativity.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Moral relativity.
As if there is something wrong with "moral relativity"! Please tell me what is wrong with flexibilty..long term plans...not falling on your sword over every little thing.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Did I say anything was wrong with it? I was just pointing out it being the reason behind your flip flopping on stuff.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2009 08:46PM by Registered Voter.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did I say anything was wrong with it? I was just
> pointing out it being the reason behind your flip
> flopping on stuff.

I dont consider it flip flopping...Id rather have single payer...Id rather not make a deal with drug companies. But if that has to be done to get a significant health care bill..so be it.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

I can see you have been reprogrammed by the collective. I notice they had embraced this new direction the other day, it appears the drones have accepted the new commands.

LOL.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

If we get on the road....we win!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

[



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 10:51PM by Alias.

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince wrote:
>
> "What is wrong with moral relativity?"
> __________________
>
> Vince, if the government gets rid of you because
> you are a fucking pain in the ass, some might
> complain.
>
> I'll point out that one's definition of a pain in
> the ass might be another's definition of an
> asshole who needs to put down.


Bring it on!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please tell me what is wrong with
> flexibilty..long term plans...not falling on your
> sword over every little thing.

i think people have more of a problem with your hypocrisy. you will justify things democrats do but condemn actions of republicans with every fiber of your being, no matter how insignificant it is.

i hope you will be more objective in the future.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please tell me what is wrong with
> > flexibilty..long term plans...not falling on
> your
> > sword over every little thing.
>
> i think people have more of a problem with your
> hypocrisy. you will justify things democrats do
> but condemn actions of republicans with every
> fiber of your being, no matter how insignificant
> it is.
>
> i hope you will be more objective in the future.

YES! This is also what annoys me most with Vince and all die hard one party people. I'll admit I vote for both parties depending on many factors but overall I am starting to hate politicians and thinking not voting might be my best vote. Especially since a third (or forth or fifth) party candidate will likely never be viable.

Mofo,


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, dear Vince... I still have a hard time
> believing you are actually real. Very hard. In
> real life, I've just never met anyone like you.

Vince doesn't want the Dems to "kill Granny." He just wants them to ensure a slow death when she can't afford her meds because Big O snuggled up with the Pharmas to ensure Medicare drug prices will not be negotiated. If Seniors drugs are unaffordable and they are prohibited from buying drugs from Canada (the same drugs American Pharmas wholesale to them), then they die sooner and are less drain on the program.

I can hear the "end of life" counselors now. "Granny, we would really like to help you find a way to afford your meds, but if we do that, you live longer and place a greater burden on the program. To keep costs under control, we had to make certain concessions. Now, I'd like to refer you to Vince(1) who can better explain the need for these concessions. Oh, to save costs, your consult with Vince(1) is not covered by your Medicare plan."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2009 06:50AM by RestonLass.

RestonLass Wrote:
If Seniors drugs are
> unaffordable and they are prohibited from buying
> drugs from Canada (the same drugs American Pharmas
> wholesale to them), then they die sooner and are
> less drain on the program.

Umm, that would be the "status quo", wouldn't it? Wouldn't asking Pharma to sell drugs in the donut hole at a 50% discount actually be an improvement? (not optimal, for certain, but definitely an improvement)

Oh, to save costs, your
> consult with Vince(1) is not covered by your
> Medicare plan."


Again, that's the status quo. Actually paying a doctor for that consult is what gave birth to the deathers....LOL

______________________________________________
I have had to change the addresses to my retaliatory blogs over half a dozen times.

Why just in the donut hole? Why not across the board?

Isn't the whole intent of Health Insurance Reform to REDUCE costs across the board, and thereby reducing premiums?

With Medicare, premiums are paid by the tax payers rather than Medicare recipients. Tax payers are screaming because the program is running with lax oversight and ignoring run-away costs. So, to compensate, Medicare tax withholding is held steady while drug prices are determined by the Pharmas and services are cut to the seniors who now pay more out of pocket.

All the Dems are doing is trading once covered costs for out-of-pocket expenses - holding Medicare insurance invoices steady. I guess when you look at it that way, the Dems are doing a great job!!!!!!

As most of Congress are a bunch of dirty old men, it stands to reason that Viagra remains a Medicare "covered" expense, while hearing aids and glasses are out-of-pocket, unless you live in a refrigerator box.

RestonLass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why just in the donut hole? Why not across the
> board?
>
> Isn't the whole intent of Health Insurance Reform
> to REDUCE costs across the board, and thereby
> reducing premiums?
>
> With Medicare, premiums are paid by the tax payers
> rather than Medicare recipients. Tax payers are
> screaming because the program is running with lax
> oversight and ignoring run-away costs. So, to
> compensate, Medicare tax withholding is held
> steady while drug prices are determined by the
> Pharmas and services are cut to the seniors who
> now pay more out of pocket.
>
> All the Dems are doing is trading once covered
> costs for out-of-pocket expenses - holding
> Medicare insurance invoices steady. I guess when
> you look at it that way, the Dems are doing a
> great job!!!!!!
>
> As most of Congress are a bunch of dirty old men,
> it stands to reason that Viagra remains a Medicare
> "covered" expense, while hearing aids and glasses
> are out-of-pocket, unless you live in a
> refrigerator box.


A dont even talk about abortions or even birth control being included. Our hard-ons are a neccesity...your reproductive health is not.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2009 09:50AM by Vince(1).

Vince, I'm not quite sure how to break this to you, but women of Medicare age don't need access to abortions or birth control.

RestonLass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince doesn't want the Dems to "kill Granny." He
> just wants them to ensure a slow death when she
> can't afford her meds because Big O snuggled up
> with the Pharmas to ensure Medicare drug prices
> will not be negotiated.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Attachments:

RestonLass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince, I'm not quite sure how to break this to
> you, but women of Medicare age don't need access
> to abortions or birth control.


Well just sit there and wait until they get around to this discsssion in the health care reform debate. Men will get their viagra...you'll get abstinence.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RestonLass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince doesn't want the Dems to "kill Granny."
> He
> > just wants them to ensure a slow death when she
> > can't afford her meds because Big O snuggled up
> > with the Pharmas to ensure Medicare drug prices
> > will not be negotiated.


If you debated the issue honestly..you'd state whether or not you favor any of the proposed medical health care reforms...what priority you give to the various proposals...what your line in the sand issues are. Instead you play these silly games designed to kill all health care proposals..and make the president look like a failure. You are however too timid..perhaps too simplisitc to understand the art of compromise.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2009 12:04PM by Vince(1).

I prefer a German car over a Japanese luxury car they are more fun to drive and look a lot nicer. The only advantage of a Japanese car its cheaper to fix.

ffxstoner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I prefer a German car over a Japanese luxury car
> they are more fun to drive and look a lot nicer.
> The only advantage of a Japanese car its cheaper
> to fix.

+1

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RestonLass Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Vince doesn't want the Dems to "kill Granny."
>
> > He
> > > just wants them to ensure a slow death when
> she
> > > can't afford her meds because Big O snuggled
> up
> > > with the Pharmas to ensure Medicare drug
> prices
> > > will not be negotiated.
>
>
> If you debated the issue honestly..you'd state
> whether or not you favor any of the proposed
> medical health care reforms...what priority you
> give to the various proposals...what your line in
> the sand issues are. Instead you play these silly
> games designed to kill all health care
> proposals..and make the president look like a
> failure. You are however too timid..perhaps too
> simplisitc to understand the art of compromise.


While you continue to make disjointed comments that do not apply.

There will be NO single pay for all Vince, At best there will be Medicare for seniors and Medicaid for the low-income. The rest of us will foot the bill.

I hope you can adjust.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Instead you play these silly
> games designed to kill all health care
> proposals..and make the president look like a
> failure. You are however too timid..perhaps too
> simplisitc to understand the art of compromise.

Vince, in his usual grandiose and insulting line of comment. Which is even more laughable in its total BS content. "...art of compromise..."? And yet I seem to remember you completely in our face on the single payer being passed. Oops, reality sucks, huh?

Also, you continue this drone mantra of "no other ideas - kill every plan" which has been proven repeatedly to be false. Take the plug out Vince, get off the umbilical - remove the programmed ear bud. Stop drinking the koolaid.

You are the ONLY one here playing silly games Vince. Attempting to post with intelligence when it is obvious you are nothing but a drone for the media soundbites and your party line Obama-thon. You come here and accuse others of spouting propaganda - when in reality you are the one pushing the most programmed information here. The party message changes, boom, so does the Vince mantra.

Face it Vince, you are too simplistic to understand what compromise even means unless someone tells you they decided to do it.
.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
Attachments:

I am much more to the left of today's democratic party....on all sorts of issues...foreign policy...reproductive privacy...gun control. I am hardly a spoke person for them. Unfortunately the democratic party is my only viable option right now.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2009 01:13PM by Vince(1).

The Gravis,
I like THAT pic. Is that one of your shops also?

The Harry Tuttle,

nope.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Cheer up, Gravman! I liked the apocalypse kitty too...

RestonLass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gravis Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > RestonLass Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Vince doesn't want the Dems to "kill
> Granny."
> >
> > > He
> > > > just wants them to ensure a slow death when
> > she
> > > > can't afford her meds because Big O
> snuggled
> > up
> > > > with the Pharmas to ensure Medicare drug
> > prices
> > > > will not be negotiated.
> >
> >
> > If you debated the issue honestly..you'd state
> > whether or not you favor any of the proposed
> > medical health care reforms...what priority you
> > give to the various proposals...what your line
> in
> > the sand issues are. Instead you play these
> silly
> > games designed to kill all health care
> > proposals..and make the president look like a
> > failure. You are however too timid..perhaps
> too
> > simplisitc to understand the art of compromise.
>
>
> While you continue to make disjointed comments
> that do not apply.
>
> There will be NO single pay for all Vince, At
> best there will be Medicare for seniors and
> Medicaid for the low-income. The rest of us will
> foot the bill.
>
> I hope you can adjust.


ANd who said there would be sinlge payer for all? Only republicans say that..to scare people.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

The President can voice his opinion..like I can...Id prefer a single payer system...doesnt mean it's going to happen. Single-payer wasnt even on the table until about 45 days ago...prior to that the president and everyone else said it wasnt being considered.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The President can voice his opinion..like I
> can...Id prefer a single payer system...doesnt
> mean it's going to happen. Single-payer wasnt
> even on the table until about 45 days ago...prior
> to that the president and everyone else said it
> wasnt being considered.

You are delusional Vince. Obama has indicated he has been working toward a single payer system for years. So it was on the table long before 45 days ago. You are such a tool. Your drone-like discourse is based on a flawed foundation. You might want to check those "critical" arguments before using them.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2009 09:22AM by Registered Voter.

Okay..so he's been working on it since the moment of his conception in Kenya! So what? Until 45 days ago it was not on the table...prior to that the president said it wasnt on the table. Get over it man!

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay..so he's been working on it since the moment
> of his conception in Kenya! So what? Until 45
> days ago it was not on the table...prior to that
> the president said it wasnt on the table. Get
> over it man!

Nothing to "get over", just debunking your delusional statement. I never said anything about kenya - get over it.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

What exactly is my delusional statement?

I agree Obama would like a single payer system.

If to get 80% of what he wants..he is willing to drop single payer.

To get 80% of what is needed he makes a deal with drug companies..insurance companies...he will do it.

It's called politics...the art of compromise. While republicans mix that concept with demagoguery...democrats do not.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.php?id=1033270〈=eng_news

Quote

Sebelius: Obama OK with insurance co-ops
Associated Press
2009-08-16 09:59 PM

President Barack Obama's health secretary is suggesting the White House is ready to accept nonprofit insurance cooperatives instead of a government-run public option in a health overhaul plan.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says Obama still believes there should be choice and competition" in the health insurance market _ but that a public option is "not the essential element."

Obama has been pressing for the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's nearly 50 million uninsured. But he had not seen a not-for-profit co-op as sufficient to offer consumers choice and competition that would bring down the costs of private insurance.

Sebelius spoke on CNN's "State of the Union."

Non-profit coop. Need to have that one spelled out a bit more.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2009 11:15AM by Registered Voter.

Pretty effective ad - I like the "side effects" portion.



If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

You're a big homo. Maybe the health care reform will reform you back to straightness. Or a life.

\



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 11:54PM by Alias.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty effective ad - I like the "side effects"
> portion.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw

Quote

...
SASKATOON — The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this country's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made.

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

"We know that there must be change," she said. "We're all running flat out, we're all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands."

...

"It's not about choosing between an American system or a Canadian system," said Doig. "The whole thing is about looking at what other people do."

"That's called looking at the evidence, looking at how care is delivered and how care is paid for all around us (and) then saying 'Well, OK, that's good information. How do we make all of that work in the Canadian context? What do the Canadian people want?' "

Doig says there are some "very good things" about Canada's health-care system, but she points out that many people have stories about times when things didn't go well for them or their family.

"(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now - if it keeps on going without change - is not sustainable," said Doig.

In a lot of the articles I have read, it appears Canada is rated one of the worst Socialized health care systems. I think Sweden might have been the best.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Since we are making comparisons...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deborah-burger/ugly-health-care-waiting-_b_55749.html

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince, first off the article is 2 years old.

Second, what is the comparison? Wait times? It has some hearsay evidence that is presented, but nothing factual. Try to bring something more current, relevant, and factual to the table.

You presented your wait times earlier and got booed out of the room. Just because your health care sucks, doesn't mean the rest of us chose your provider. You should probably look for a change away from yours.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince, first off the article is 2 years old.
>
> Second, what is the comparison? Wait times? It has
> some hearsay evidence that is presented, but
> nothing factual. Try to bring something more
> current, relevant, and factual to the table.
>
> You presented your wait times earlier and got
> booed out of the room. Just because your health
> care sucks, doesn't mean the rest of us chose your
> provider. You should probably look for a change
> away from yours.


So what if its 2 years old? The point is still valid...just becasue you have right wing politicians telling you we have the best medical system doesnt make it so. In fact there isnt a source in the world that would say so.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince, your retention period is like 10 seconds.

I have never, not once, said we have the best health care system. Never.

You argue like a 4 yr old. Constantly spouting shit, but not having a clue what you are saying.

So really, fuck off.
.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
Attachments:

So let me guess...your true (the primary source word for the word truth..in case you didnt know)...was to say how we need to learn from the other major industrial countries of the world when putting together our single payer system. Riiiggghtttt!

Your purpose was to discredit...so as to falsely bolster the value of our current system.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2009 12:28AM by Vince(1).

No Vince - EPIC FAIL again.

I said the system needs to be reformed. Most people want health care reform - that does NOT mean they want single payer health care. You keep implying that wanting reform means they want what you want.

The Canadian version of the AMA admits their system has problems and they want to move to something "closer" to ours - introducing some forms of private care to help. As it stands, their system is rated among one of the worst in "socialized" care.

But no, I never said we need to learn from the other countries when putting together a single payer system. I don't believe a single payer system makes sense for the US.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2009 12:32AM by Registered Voter.

A little cut and paste of my own...

Doig, who has had a full-time family practice in Saskatoon for 30 years, acknowledges that when physicians have talked about changing the health-care system in the past, they've been accused of wanting an American-style structure. She insists that's not the case.

Not quite the ringing endorsement you imply. Plus lets get this straight..I respect the Canadians..they actually can have a discussion on helth care without calling people Nazis..claiming death squads...people shouting..Im sure our process is inspiring all Canadians to movew toward a system like ours.


In the mean time an economy probably 1/5th the size of ours can afford to provide better care then ours...including less waiting time.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince, seriously - you can respect the Canadians all you want. It doesn't change the fact that you are delusional.

I simply posted an article that was pertinent, and made a comment on another article I had seen where they rated the Canadian system the worst among socialized health care systems. I would have provided the link but I couldn't remember where the chart was (although I did look).

But Again, you are twisting bits of nothing into more bits of nothing.

It was "death panels" by the way, your extreme left bias is creeping out from around your facade. Liberals called Bush and others Nazi's for years, so what else is new. Code Pink activists have been shouting and disrupting politicians for years, anarchists (extreme liberals) have been destroying businesses and property. So what.

"nyah nyah you called me names - oh my god I am going to take my toys and go home now!!"

You can't hardly remember what we have said in previous posts - I have to wonder how you even remember what name to post under here. And seriously, your logic capability is pretty much nil.
.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
Attachments:

Thank you for your critique....now let me tell you how much I care.....not at all.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

*sniff*

Aw, Vince, you don't care. How shocking. You don't think either - no worries, we were aware of that fact also.
.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
Attachments:

It's gonna be fun "stalking" your comments on here for years to come.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's gonna be fun "stalking" your comments on here
> for years to come.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University
Attachments:

Call me all the names you want...but you arent getting away with telling lies on here.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Representative government at its best:



If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Again..nothing more then the art of politics. At times politicians follow the crowd...sometimes they exhibit something called leadership. His constituents can decide on election day what kind of politician they want representing them.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

It was his statement (paraphrased) that he was going to vote the how he intended anyway since he knew it was good for them. With the apathy in voting these days, it is hard to say whether his constituents will vote him out or not - he is probably counting on that. Although in his district (per his own comments) if they are as conservative as he stated, he will probably be out next cycle.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Thousands Quit AARP Over Health Reform
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/17/eveningnews/main5247916.shtml

Quote

...
Letters were filled with cut-up AARP cards.

"I think that probably the seniors are most upset with cuts in Medicare," said ASA President Stuart Barton.

The American Seniors Association is flat-out against President Obama's plan, which calls for $313 billion dollars in Medicare cuts over ten years. The AARP is widely viewed as supporting the President.

Last week, Obama told a town meeting in Portsmouth, NH, "We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors."

The AARP called the President's statements "inaccurate," saying it hasn't endorsed any plan or bill.

Some were left with the feeling that AARP was waffling.

"I feel they're supporting it through the backdoor, and telling members that they're not through the front door," said Guardiani

...

AARP says for a group with 40 million members that adds hundreds of thousands each month, losing 60 thousand is just a drop in the bucket. But to the much smaller American Seniors Association it's a flood.

Another perspective on the "End of life...Guidance" provisions.

Whose Medical Decisions?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/18/whose_medical_decisions_97926.html

Quote

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The mainstream media are again circling the wagons to protect Barack Obama, but this time it may not work. One of those front-page editorials disguised as a news article in the New York Times begins: "The stubborn yet false rumor that President Obama's health care proposals would create government-sponsored 'death panels' to decide which patients were worthy of living seemed to arise from nowhere in recent weeks."

Nowhere? Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is "Special Advisor for Health Policy" for the Obama administration. That's nowhere? He is also co-author of an article on Americans' "over-utilization" of medical care in the June 18, 2008 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association. Is that nowhere?

Dr. Emanuel's article points out that Americans do not visit doctors or go into hospitals more than people in other industrialized countries. In fact we go to both places less often than people do in those other countries, which include countries with government-controlled medical care.

As the article points out, "It is more costly care, rather than high volume, that accounts for higher expenditures in the United States."

There are more Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) devices per capita in the United States, more coronary bypass operations and Americans use more new pharmaceutical drugs created within the past 5 years.

Americans also have more of what the article calls "amenities" with their medical care. "Hospital rooms in the United States offer more privacy, comfort and auxiliary services than do hospital rooms in most other countries."

In other words, it is not quantity but quality that is different-- and more expensive-- about American medical care. This is what Dr. Emanuel's "over-utilization" consists of.
...

A link to an article Emanuel co-authored. From the bits I read, and the conclusions, it really does give a lot of weight to age based factors and then tries to rationalize using a "complete lives system" which their article advocates. If you are interested, take a look - if not that is fine. I am just including it here since it is relevant. The premise is scarcity of health care - I would think if they went down the road I advocated which was to train more doctors this would not be an issue.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/Principles-for-Allocation-of-Scarce-Medical-Interventions

The allocation of medical care is made every day of the week. It is an issue which shouldnt be associated with the reform initiatives..and it is more then just an issue of training more doctors...it's also getting people to think about what they fear most...dying...and what they want done to sustain them...what they want done with their oragns...etc...etc.

When things go right the allocation of medical resources is done on a priority basis..where priority is given to those most likely to benifit from the procedure. When things dont work well it goes to those who can afford the medical procedure. I am afraid that the later process is what seniors with money..insurance...medicare expect to be done. This logic of course is one based on the American life-style. Under the banner of freedom we feel it is our right to spend more money on the medical care of dogs then our fellow human beings. This twist of the word freedom is nothing more then narcisimm and greed to its vulgar extreme.

As far as raising more doctors...fine...that statement is as American as apple pie...and I am sure it would be well recieved in the democratic party.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.