Off-Topic :
Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Rahmbo
()
Date: July 22, 2009 11:24AM
White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel told The New York Times Obama intends to use the news conference as a "six-month report card," to talk about "how we rescued the economy from the worst recession" and the legislative agenda moving forward, including health care and energy legislation.
-----------
"Rescued the economy...?!?!?!" What the fuck are they thinking? Unemployment is rising. A debt bubble is a possibility at this point which would cause interest rates to skyrocket. The federal deficit sits at a trillion and could be two trillion within six months. Forclosures are still rampant nationwide. Even his poll numbers show people are beginning to doubt his abilities to handle the economy. I hate to break it to Rahm Emanuel, but simply saying "mission accomplished" doesn't make it so. Ask George Bush.
-----------
"Rescued the economy...?!?!?!" What the fuck are they thinking? Unemployment is rising. A debt bubble is a possibility at this point which would cause interest rates to skyrocket. The federal deficit sits at a trillion and could be two trillion within six months. Forclosures are still rampant nationwide. Even his poll numbers show people are beginning to doubt his abilities to handle the economy. I hate to break it to Rahm Emanuel, but simply saying "mission accomplished" doesn't make it so. Ask George Bush.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
§
()
Date: July 22, 2009 11:48AM
Well, the logical answer is that they have "tempered" the economy because if they didn't do anything (i.e.: TARP, TALF, Auto Industry support, etc.), then unemployment would likely approach 15% by now.
Yes, there still are foreclosures, but the overall loosening of the credit markets is helping move real estate in many areas. Especially in Fairfax. Probably not in Detroit or another armpit of a city for obvious reasons.
You can't expect immediate results. There isn't a light switch in the White House that makes the economy robust.
Yes, there still are foreclosures, but the overall loosening of the credit markets is helping move real estate in many areas. Especially in Fairfax. Probably not in Detroit or another armpit of a city for obvious reasons.
You can't expect immediate results. There isn't a light switch in the White House that makes the economy robust.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Stammerin Stan
()
Date: July 22, 2009 12:13PM
§ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, the logical answer is that they have
> "tempered" the economy because if they didn't do
> anything (i.e.: TARP, TALF, Auto Industry support,
> etc.), then unemployment would likely approach 15%
> by now.
>
> Yes, there still are foreclosures, but the overall
> loosening of the credit markets is helping move
> real estate in many areas. Especially in Fairfax.
> Probably not in Detroit or another armpit of a
> city for obvious reasons.
>
> You can't expect immediate results. There isn't a
> light switch in the White House that makes the
> economy robust.
Exactly, so don't say "rescued the economy." Who actually believes that?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, the logical answer is that they have
> "tempered" the economy because if they didn't do
> anything (i.e.: TARP, TALF, Auto Industry support,
> etc.), then unemployment would likely approach 15%
> by now.
>
> Yes, there still are foreclosures, but the overall
> loosening of the credit markets is helping move
> real estate in many areas. Especially in Fairfax.
> Probably not in Detroit or another armpit of a
> city for obvious reasons.
>
> You can't expect immediate results. There isn't a
> light switch in the White House that makes the
> economy robust.
Exactly, so don't say "rescued the economy." Who actually believes that?
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Voter
()
Date: July 22, 2009 12:59PM
All this hand wringing is such nonsense. It's like people have forgotten what the state of the economy was when Shrub cleared out. Yes, unemployment is still rising--it's called a lagging indicator. The stock market is a leading indicator--how has that been doing this year? By no means are we out of the woods yet, but things likely would have been much, much worse if drastic action hadn't been taken. At any rate, in terms of politics, what will matter most is what the state of the economy is two to three years from now. Do people actually believe anyone could have turned around the disastrous situation Shrub & Co. left in six months?
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 22, 2009 01:06PM
Then you are saying Obama and his folks are liars? They are the ones that said they would stop unemployment at 8% or so. If they are that bad then they are either liars, or don't have a clue - either one is a huge problem.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2009 01:07PM by Registered Voter.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2009 01:07PM by Registered Voter.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
ITRADE
()
Date: July 22, 2009 01:28PM
8% unemployment. Repeated over and over by the WH.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
blame game
()
Date: July 22, 2009 01:35PM
ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 8% unemployment. Repeated over and over by the
> WH.
Bush made him quote those numbers!
Larry Summers should sit down and write two letters (if he can find time between his naps).
-------------------------------------------------------
> 8% unemployment. Repeated over and over by the
> WH.
Bush made him quote those numbers!
Larry Summers should sit down and write two letters (if he can find time between his naps).
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: July 22, 2009 02:08PM
If economy sucks in a year, it will be Obama's "Mission Accomplished" moment.
If the economy has rebounded in a year, it will be Obama's "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" moment.
I know the latter scares the shit out of most Republicans.
If the economy has rebounded in a year, it will be Obama's "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" moment.
I know the latter scares the shit out of most Republicans.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Wait-n-See
()
Date: July 22, 2009 02:12PM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If economy sucks in a year, it will be Obama's
> "Mission Accomplished" moment.
>
> If the economy has rebounded in a year, it will be
> Obama's "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall"
> moment.
>
> I know the latter scares the shit out of most
> Republicans.
Then wait a year to pronounce it. As a Republican, I am more afraid of his failure than his success. His failure could be cataclysmic. At that point, party labels cease to matter.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If economy sucks in a year, it will be Obama's
> "Mission Accomplished" moment.
>
> If the economy has rebounded in a year, it will be
> Obama's "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall"
> moment.
>
> I know the latter scares the shit out of most
> Republicans.
Then wait a year to pronounce it. As a Republican, I am more afraid of his failure than his success. His failure could be cataclysmic. At that point, party labels cease to matter.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 22, 2009 02:18PM
Unfortunately he may end up being a victim of his own success. Reagan didn't come in and tell everyone he was going to cure the sick, raise the dead, stop all wars, etc. Obama kind of did... and his problem is going to be that he came in promising a lot, including not raising taxes, and yet he is going to end up breaking almost every promise he made. To boot he is letting Pelosi and Reid make policy on things he promised, so now he looks like he really doesn't know what is going on, or how to fix it, he is just letting the other politicians work it out. Add on the whole rhetoric of being more bi-partisan, and yet in actuality it has become even more partisan than before, and you are setting the stage for a pretty significant backlash.
If his policies work, more power to him. But I think he is going to end up going the way of a flash in the pan, and then there will be all sorts of recriminations and racial confrontation implications down the road. We still haven't seen the end of the layoffs, and they are running out of ways to borrow money - at some point they may dig themselves such a big pit it won't matter much what they do anymore. Lets hope that doesn't happen.
If his policies work, more power to him. But I think he is going to end up going the way of a flash in the pan, and then there will be all sorts of recriminations and racial confrontation implications down the road. We still haven't seen the end of the layoffs, and they are running out of ways to borrow money - at some point they may dig themselves such a big pit it won't matter much what they do anymore. Lets hope that doesn't happen.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Lopter
()
Date: July 22, 2009 02:37PM
I agree that health care is important, but can we really afford to tack on new programs after the last eight years and fight two wars?
Enough of this Republican vs Democrat BS and lets start planning for the future of the US, forgert this short 4 years term fourth grader he did it shit.
1) Independent energy.
2) Increase information sharing infrastructure
3) Increase US citizens health care, stomp out Cancer, flu's, AIDS, etc... Let the other countries die off
4) Prepare the US for weather emergencies like Katrina.
5) Chop off CA and Texas and let them float away.
Enough of this Republican vs Democrat BS and lets start planning for the future of the US, forgert this short 4 years term fourth grader he did it shit.
1) Independent energy.
2) Increase information sharing infrastructure
3) Increase US citizens health care, stomp out Cancer, flu's, AIDS, etc... Let the other countries die off
4) Prepare the US for weather emergencies like Katrina.
5) Chop off CA and Texas and let them float away.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 22, 2009 03:23PM
Lopter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that health care is important, but can we
> really afford to tack on new programs after the
> last eight years and fight two wars?
>
> Enough of this Republican vs Democrat BS and lets
> start planning for the future of the US, forgert
> this short 4 years term fourth grader he did it
> shit.
>
> 1) Independent energy.
> 2) Increase information sharing infrastructure
> 3) Increase US citizens health care, stomp out
> Cancer, flu's, AIDS, etc... Let the other
> countries die off
> 4) Prepare the US for weather emergencies like
> Katrina.
> 5) Chop off CA and Texas and let them float away.
The current argument from most people defending Obama is "Well, Bush did it so Obama is just doing more to fix it!"
My point is pretty clear - Common Sense should prevail. No, I am not quoting Beck's book (having never read it) - I am stating a plain and simple fact. I don't care who is in office - if you want to defend your representatives choices, make sure you have made your opinion clear to them.
In a discussion I had with someone a few days ago, here are the questions I pose and yet some politicians would have us believe otherwise:
Does it make sense that we should enact policies that are regressive in nature as far as energy goes? Shouldn't we be striving to increase energy production to make the cost of energy go DOWN?
I am not talking about more oil, etc - it just seems to me that right now, nuclear power holds the best short term answer for large scale energy production, in conjunction with conversion to NG to provide transportation and local energy needs. That would transition us through to a potentially more efficient use of solar, wind and tidal energy. If we reduce the overall costs of energy that is good for everyone right? The only group that might suffer from this would be energy PRODUCERS potentially - the rest of us would benefit from lower costs of goods due to reduced manufacturing and transportation costs. Potentially an expansion of energy abundance would allow for more lower income families to use more energy due to the lower costs, so in reality the revenue might increase due to increased demand. All I see there is a win-win assuming the new energy sources are either low or no emission sources, with a focus on long term reduction of emission from other sources. Nuclear seems to be (at the moment) the best bet for expanding the energy grid with little increase of emissions, and then combine that with conversion of existing transportation to NG or maybe hydrogen, and electric... maybe I just don't get it - the politicians do not appear to be going this way at the moment. Also lower cost electricity would make large scale implementation of electric cars more viable - right now the addition of charging your vehicles to the electric grid is just going to make us even more stretched for energy.
Where is the win in making energy prices so high that the cost of everything we do (on top of increased taxation) costs more?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that health care is important, but can we
> really afford to tack on new programs after the
> last eight years and fight two wars?
>
> Enough of this Republican vs Democrat BS and lets
> start planning for the future of the US, forgert
> this short 4 years term fourth grader he did it
> shit.
>
> 1) Independent energy.
> 2) Increase information sharing infrastructure
> 3) Increase US citizens health care, stomp out
> Cancer, flu's, AIDS, etc... Let the other
> countries die off
> 4) Prepare the US for weather emergencies like
> Katrina.
> 5) Chop off CA and Texas and let them float away.
The current argument from most people defending Obama is "Well, Bush did it so Obama is just doing more to fix it!"
My point is pretty clear - Common Sense should prevail. No, I am not quoting Beck's book (having never read it) - I am stating a plain and simple fact. I don't care who is in office - if you want to defend your representatives choices, make sure you have made your opinion clear to them.
In a discussion I had with someone a few days ago, here are the questions I pose and yet some politicians would have us believe otherwise:
Does it make sense that we should enact policies that are regressive in nature as far as energy goes? Shouldn't we be striving to increase energy production to make the cost of energy go DOWN?
I am not talking about more oil, etc - it just seems to me that right now, nuclear power holds the best short term answer for large scale energy production, in conjunction with conversion to NG to provide transportation and local energy needs. That would transition us through to a potentially more efficient use of solar, wind and tidal energy. If we reduce the overall costs of energy that is good for everyone right? The only group that might suffer from this would be energy PRODUCERS potentially - the rest of us would benefit from lower costs of goods due to reduced manufacturing and transportation costs. Potentially an expansion of energy abundance would allow for more lower income families to use more energy due to the lower costs, so in reality the revenue might increase due to increased demand. All I see there is a win-win assuming the new energy sources are either low or no emission sources, with a focus on long term reduction of emission from other sources. Nuclear seems to be (at the moment) the best bet for expanding the energy grid with little increase of emissions, and then combine that with conversion of existing transportation to NG or maybe hydrogen, and electric... maybe I just don't get it - the politicians do not appear to be going this way at the moment. Also lower cost electricity would make large scale implementation of electric cars more viable - right now the addition of charging your vehicles to the electric grid is just going to make us even more stretched for energy.
Where is the win in making energy prices so high that the cost of everything we do (on top of increased taxation) costs more?
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: July 22, 2009 03:36PM
I say wait to hear what Obama says for himself rather then his representatives. He has every right to claim various "accomplishments" along the way of helping the economy. It is ridiculous for anyone to take credit or to blame the president for fixing or not fixing the economy 6 months minto an administration. No one ever said the economy would be fixed in 6 months. It was a mistake for Obama to even claim the stimulus would keep the unemployment rate below any number...there are too many unknowns for any such accurate prediction. ANNNDD worse of all it gives his political enemies..people who are only interested in torpedoing his agenda for their own the tools to criticise him with. That is what we see today...not the loyal opposition but the republikan scum trying to be relevant...but they arent.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 22, 2009 03:40PM
Yes Vince it was a mistake. How can the Messiah make mistakes?
Please - don't just jump in and post another repeat of what other folks have said + the patented "Vince K for C Answer to Everything".
You are the problem Vince - people like you. There are flavors of your kind on the other side of the political spectrum as well - too dumbed down by soundbite politics to even have an inkling of what rational thought is anymore.
Please - don't just jump in and post another repeat of what other folks have said + the patented "Vince K for C Answer to Everything".
You are the problem Vince - people like you. There are flavors of your kind on the other side of the political spectrum as well - too dumbed down by soundbite politics to even have an inkling of what rational thought is anymore.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
§
()
Date: July 22, 2009 04:37PM
That's really uncalled for.
Vince was simply trying to own up to his party's rare shortcomings, which coming from Vince, is a giant leap forward.
Vince was simply trying to own up to his party's rare shortcomings, which coming from Vince, is a giant leap forward.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 22, 2009 06:31PM
Not really, he couched it all as just a criticism by the vast K conspiracy - after spouting the "its only been 6 months" response.
*Shrug* He and I sparred before the election and my tolerance for Vince-isms was worn out long ago.
*Shrug* He and I sparred before the election and my tolerance for Vince-isms was worn out long ago.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
rightard
()
Date: July 22, 2009 07:16PM
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where is the win in making energy prices so high
> that the cost of everything we do (on top of
> increased taxation) costs more?
This idiom is along the lines of the GOP's letting all the banks fail and then out of the ashes will the phoenix rise. If Nuclear power causes energy prices to drop, what's the motivation to produce green energy? (radiation 20yrs later?)
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where is the win in making energy prices so high
> that the cost of everything we do (on top of
> increased taxation) costs more?
This idiom is along the lines of the GOP's letting all the banks fail and then out of the ashes will the phoenix rise. If Nuclear power causes energy prices to drop, what's the motivation to produce green energy? (radiation 20yrs later?)
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
wonky
()
Date: July 22, 2009 07:20PM
I find it humorous that the GOP wants nuclear power in their backyard but scream bloody murder when moving some inmates for Gitmo there.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 22, 2009 07:35PM
rightard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Where is the win in making energy prices so
> high
> > that the cost of everything we do (on top of
> > increased taxation) costs more?
>
> This idiom is along the lines of the GOP's letting
> all the banks fail and then out of the ashes will
> the phoenix rise. If Nuclear power causes energy
> prices to drop, what's the motivation to produce
> green energy? (radiation 20yrs later?)
Much like anything mechanical, these plants will not last forever. Most of the current plants are 30 years old - what will we use IF any of them fail? The electric grid is already overtaxed, just look at California. And it is not getting better. But there is no idiom here - you know, if people just focus on the problem and drop the politics maybe you could understand the answer.
I would fully embrace using solar power to supplement my energy needs at home by installing a system if the cost makes it worthwhile. At the moment, it is about $7/watt, so to install a 10KW system is $70K. 10KW won't run much, but it is good for lighting, and small electrical devices, maybe a computer or two during the day, a fridge - but it would be tough to run an AC system. What they are aiming for is to get it down to $1-$2/watt which most average homeowners could afford to install. Add on the cost of some form of battery storage system and you could easily take a good portion of your home electric use off the grid. While we would hope it will save you money in the long run, there is already a move afoot to allow electric companies to charge you more money (per kW) if you use LESS electricity... So I am sure some of that would come into play as well. The main point though - energy is something we can tackle to make things cheaper - why aren't we focusing on that?
And sorry, but how about you point out all the nuclear failures we have had in the US that come close to comparing to one 9/11? So yeah, I say send these "enemy combatants" to a remote island in the pacific or something. And btw, the GOP are not the only ones complaining about this...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2009 07:37PM by Registered Voter.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Where is the win in making energy prices so
> high
> > that the cost of everything we do (on top of
> > increased taxation) costs more?
>
> This idiom is along the lines of the GOP's letting
> all the banks fail and then out of the ashes will
> the phoenix rise. If Nuclear power causes energy
> prices to drop, what's the motivation to produce
> green energy? (radiation 20yrs later?)
Much like anything mechanical, these plants will not last forever. Most of the current plants are 30 years old - what will we use IF any of them fail? The electric grid is already overtaxed, just look at California. And it is not getting better. But there is no idiom here - you know, if people just focus on the problem and drop the politics maybe you could understand the answer.
I would fully embrace using solar power to supplement my energy needs at home by installing a system if the cost makes it worthwhile. At the moment, it is about $7/watt, so to install a 10KW system is $70K. 10KW won't run much, but it is good for lighting, and small electrical devices, maybe a computer or two during the day, a fridge - but it would be tough to run an AC system. What they are aiming for is to get it down to $1-$2/watt which most average homeowners could afford to install. Add on the cost of some form of battery storage system and you could easily take a good portion of your home electric use off the grid. While we would hope it will save you money in the long run, there is already a move afoot to allow electric companies to charge you more money (per kW) if you use LESS electricity... So I am sure some of that would come into play as well. The main point though - energy is something we can tackle to make things cheaper - why aren't we focusing on that?
And sorry, but how about you point out all the nuclear failures we have had in the US that come close to comparing to one 9/11? So yeah, I say send these "enemy combatants" to a remote island in the pacific or something. And btw, the GOP are not the only ones complaining about this...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2009 07:37PM by Registered Voter.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
IRunFairfaxUnderground
()
Date: July 22, 2009 08:03PM
Obama is on.. Presidential News Conference.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Lopter
()
Date: July 22, 2009 08:16PM
Register Voter -
Two words "Bush ENRON"
Two words "Bush ENRON"
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: July 22, 2009 11:23PM
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes Vince it was a mistake. How can the Messiah
> make mistakes?
>
> Please - don't just jump in and post another
> repeat of what other folks have said + the
> patented "Vince K for C Answer to Everything".
>
> You are the problem Vince - people like you. There
> are flavors of your kind on the other side of the
> political spectrum as well - too dumbed down by
> soundbite politics to even have an inkling of what
> rational thought is anymore.
Can you spout anything but hate from your mind? Im so happy I am your choice target for your rage. But lets get it straight..I'll say what I want when I want to say it. Got you? Now get lost!
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes Vince it was a mistake. How can the Messiah
> make mistakes?
>
> Please - don't just jump in and post another
> repeat of what other folks have said + the
> patented "Vince K for C Answer to Everything".
>
> You are the problem Vince - people like you. There
> are flavors of your kind on the other side of the
> political spectrum as well - too dumbed down by
> soundbite politics to even have an inkling of what
> rational thought is anymore.
Can you spout anything but hate from your mind? Im so happy I am your choice target for your rage. But lets get it straight..I'll say what I want when I want to say it. Got you? Now get lost!
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: July 22, 2009 11:25PM
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not really, he couched it all as just a criticism
> by the vast K conspiracy - after spouting the "its
> only been 6 months" response.
>
> *Shrug* He and I sparred before the election and
> my tolerance for Vince-isms was worn out long ago.
So leave. You were wrong prior to the election..you are wrong today. You represent the the best of the what the republikan party has to offer...hate and discontent. We dont need your kind anymore.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not really, he couched it all as just a criticism
> by the vast K conspiracy - after spouting the "its
> only been 6 months" response.
>
> *Shrug* He and I sparred before the election and
> my tolerance for Vince-isms was worn out long ago.
So leave. You were wrong prior to the election..you are wrong today. You represent the the best of the what the republikan party has to offer...hate and discontent. We dont need your kind anymore.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: July 22, 2009 11:28PM
wonky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it humorous that the GOP wants nuclear
> power in their backyard but scream bloody murder
> when moving some inmates for Gitmo there.
Republikans are kowards. When it comes to risking their own lives in a low risk situation like imprisoning a terrorist they use the issue to stir up fear.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it humorous that the GOP wants nuclear
> power in their backyard but scream bloody murder
> when moving some inmates for Gitmo there.
Republikans are kowards. When it comes to risking their own lives in a low risk situation like imprisoning a terrorist they use the issue to stir up fear.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 23, 2009 12:53AM
Lopter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Register Voter -
>
> Two words "Bush ENRON"
>
>
Which started under Clinton. Bush is the one that had ENRON prosecuted, Clinton put the pieces in place that allowed ENRON to happen.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Register Voter -
>
> Two words "Bush ENRON"
>
>
Which started under Clinton. Bush is the one that had ENRON prosecuted, Clinton put the pieces in place that allowed ENRON to happen.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 23, 2009 01:01AM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not really, he couched it all as just a
> criticism
> > by the vast K conspiracy - after spouting the
> "its
> > only been 6 months" response.
> >
> > *Shrug* He and I sparred before the election
> and
> > my tolerance for Vince-isms was worn out long
> ago.
>
>
> So leave. You were wrong prior to the
> election..you are wrong today. You represent the
> the best of the what the republikan party has to
> offer...hate and discontent. We dont need your
> kind anymore.
Vince - you seriously are full of shit.
Again, nothing to say other than "go away" *sniff* I am really hurt.
NOT
You have anything to say that has any meaning other than (Vince speaking) "I substitute Ks for Cs bekause I have no better way to kriticize them. Oh yeah, I kall them racists too." Wow.
You are the one that spouts hate and discontent. I have yet to see you offer a solution to any issue discussed here recently other than to complain about it or call the posters racist. Based on some of the signatures shown here in recent weeks, it's obvious your charms wore thin on some of the other folks here too - either that or they are trying to flatter you...
When you decide to actually have a discussion let me know. Otherwise, well, you know.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not really, he couched it all as just a
> criticism
> > by the vast K conspiracy - after spouting the
> "its
> > only been 6 months" response.
> >
> > *Shrug* He and I sparred before the election
> and
> > my tolerance for Vince-isms was worn out long
> ago.
>
>
> So leave. You were wrong prior to the
> election..you are wrong today. You represent the
> the best of the what the republikan party has to
> offer...hate and discontent. We dont need your
> kind anymore.
Vince - you seriously are full of shit.
Again, nothing to say other than "go away" *sniff* I am really hurt.
NOT
You have anything to say that has any meaning other than (Vince speaking) "I substitute Ks for Cs bekause I have no better way to kriticize them. Oh yeah, I kall them racists too." Wow.
You are the one that spouts hate and discontent. I have yet to see you offer a solution to any issue discussed here recently other than to complain about it or call the posters racist. Based on some of the signatures shown here in recent weeks, it's obvious your charms wore thin on some of the other folks here too - either that or they are trying to flatter you...
When you decide to actually have a discussion let me know. Otherwise, well, you know.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 23, 2009 01:03AM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wonky Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I find it humorous that the GOP wants nuclear
> > power in their backyard but scream bloody
> murder
> > when moving some inmates for Gitmo there.
>
> Republikans are kowards. When it comes to risking
> their own lives in a low risk situation like
> imprisoning a terrorist they use the issue to stir
> up fear.
Yes yes - and Obama has closed Gitmo, right? Hmm, funny how most of the terrorists are still there. Heard he ran into a snag - seems none of the democratic lawmakers want them in their states either.
-------------------------------------------------------
> wonky Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I find it humorous that the GOP wants nuclear
> > power in their backyard but scream bloody
> murder
> > when moving some inmates for Gitmo there.
>
> Republikans are kowards. When it comes to risking
> their own lives in a low risk situation like
> imprisoning a terrorist they use the issue to stir
> up fear.
Yes yes - and Obama has closed Gitmo, right? Hmm, funny how most of the terrorists are still there. Heard he ran into a snag - seems none of the democratic lawmakers want them in their states either.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Registered Voter
()
Date: July 23, 2009 02:18AM
ENRON Timeline (Wiki):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Enron_scandal#1993
All this happened before Bush even got into office. About the most damning thing about the whole issue is that they contributed money to Bush's campaign, and that I am guessing (based on the time line presented) that Cheney met with these folks (amongst others) when they had conversations about formulating energy policy. I don't remember seeing any proof of anything other than that - just endless speculation by bloggers that something sinister went on - which is of course why ENRON was taken apart while Bush was in office by his Justice Dept...?
All the ENRON folks were prosecuted under Bush - but the fraud by ENRON and Arthur Anderson started long before Bush got into office.
Even the PBS timeline doesn't imply that Bush (or Cheney) had anything to do with ENRON directly.
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/enron/timeline90s.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Enron_scandal#1993
Quote
...
1993
April: Enron's Teesside power plant in England begins Operation, one of the first big successes for the company's international strategy. The international strategy included propane processing and marketing in Venezuela and Puerto Rico and a manufacturing partnership with GE in South America.
December: Enron and Maharashtra reach agreement to build the massive Dabhol power plant which never operates when ENRON is still in business. There are reports that ENRON uses thugs to intimidate Indian political opposition to the deal. Tom White, the first BUSH Secretary of the Army, is involved in the scandal and later is accused of cooking the books at Enron Energy Services and lying to Congress about his Enron holdings.
[edit] 1994
Enron conducts its first electricity trade.
[edit] 1996
CFO Andrew Fastow constructs off-book entities in which Enron would make deals with these companies and then Enron would transfer its debt into those companies while at the same time, Fastow and other Senior execs, with their respective companies, would also be taking money out of those companies from the Enron transactions. [1] [2]
Chief Operating Officer Richard Kinder announces that he'll leave the company. In December, Skilling Becomes Enron's President and COO.
[edit] 1997
Andrew Fastow creates Chewco (managed by Enron's Michael Kopper) in an effort to hide debt and inflate profits, but Chewco doesn't meet requirements to keep it off Enron's balance sheet.
Enron closes its acquisition of Portland General in a 2 billion dollar stock swap.
[edit] 1998
Enron enters into several capital intensive ventures that turn into financial disasters including a water distribution scheme and power plants in Brazil.
Enron promotes Andrew Fastow to CFO.
Enron buys Wessex Water, a British water utility. Wessex become Enron's new water unit, Azurix.
[edit] 1999
Enron board of directors waive conflict of interest rules in order to allow Andrew Fastow to run private companies that do business with Enron. He creates LJM that buys poorly performing Enron assets. In reality, LJM is used to hide debt and inflate profits for Enron in order to prop up its stock price. It is believed that this is the beginning of the complex and questionable accounting practices that lead to Enron's demise.
Enron withdraws from oil and gas productions by divesting its remaining stake in Enron Oil & Gas.
Enron announces the launch of EnronOnline, its internet-based commodity trading.
[edit] 2000
Enron launches EnronCredit.com which buys and sells credit risk to help companies manage the risk in trading.
Enron and Blockbuster announce a 20-year deal to provide video-on-demand service over high-speed internet. Eight months later the deal was terminated.
Azurix Chairman Rebecca Mark "Mark the Shark", resigns.
* March Enron CEO Kenneth Lay allegedly files fraudulent annual 10-K for 1999
* March 13 Jeffrey Skilling allegedly signs fraudulent letters to Arthur Andersen LLP about 1999 financial data.
* July Enron allegedly issues a 64 pages booklet, containing a comprehensive Code of Ethics
* August Enron CEO Kenneth Lay allegedly files fraudulent quarterly 10-Q for second quarter 2000
* November 1 Enron CEO Kenneth Lay allegedly begins selling Enron shares.
* November Enron CEO Kenneth Lay allegedly files fraudulent quarterly 10-Q for third quarter 2000
...
All this happened before Bush even got into office. About the most damning thing about the whole issue is that they contributed money to Bush's campaign, and that I am guessing (based on the time line presented) that Cheney met with these folks (amongst others) when they had conversations about formulating energy policy. I don't remember seeing any proof of anything other than that - just endless speculation by bloggers that something sinister went on - which is of course why ENRON was taken apart while Bush was in office by his Justice Dept...?
All the ENRON folks were prosecuted under Bush - but the fraud by ENRON and Arthur Anderson started long before Bush got into office.
Even the PBS timeline doesn't imply that Bush (or Cheney) had anything to do with ENRON directly.
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/enron/timeline90s.html
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: July 23, 2009 01:51PM
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > wonky Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I find it humorous that the GOP wants nuclear
> > > power in their backyard but scream bloody
> > murder
> > > when moving some inmates for Gitmo there.
> >
> > Republikans are kowards. When it comes to
> risking
> > their own lives in a low risk situation like
> > imprisoning a terrorist they use the issue to
> stir
> > up fear.
>
> Yes yes - and Obama has closed Gitmo, right? Hmm,
> funny how most of the terrorists are still there.
> Heard he ran into a snag - seems none of the
> democratic lawmakers want them in their states
> either.
Jim Moran was willing to take them..and asses like you criticised him for it. Once again you take the "fact" and twist them...the facts are that republikan law makers grabbed this issue...as another gotcha issue...beat their war drums...got the the population all worked up and scared....and a few democrats took the bait. The fact is..this is a 100% republikan issue...100%.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > wonky Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I find it humorous that the GOP wants nuclear
> > > power in their backyard but scream bloody
> > murder
> > > when moving some inmates for Gitmo there.
> >
> > Republikans are kowards. When it comes to
> risking
> > their own lives in a low risk situation like
> > imprisoning a terrorist they use the issue to
> stir
> > up fear.
>
> Yes yes - and Obama has closed Gitmo, right? Hmm,
> funny how most of the terrorists are still there.
> Heard he ran into a snag - seems none of the
> democratic lawmakers want them in their states
> either.
Jim Moran was willing to take them..and asses like you criticised him for it. Once again you take the "fact" and twist them...the facts are that republikan law makers grabbed this issue...as another gotcha issue...beat their war drums...got the the population all worked up and scared....and a few democrats took the bait. The fact is..this is a 100% republikan issue...100%.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Cindy
()
Date: July 23, 2009 02:16PM
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this happened before Bush even got into
> office. About the most damning thing about the
> whole issue is that they contributed money to
> Bush's campaign, and that I am guessing (based on
> the time line presented) that Cheney met with
> these folks (amongst others) when they had
> conversations about formulating energy policy. I
> don't remember seeing any proof of anything other
> than that - just endless speculation by bloggers
> that something sinister went on - which is of
> course why ENRON was taken apart while Bush was in
> office by his Justice Dept...?
>
> All the ENRON folks were prosecuted under Bush -
> but the fraud by ENRON and Arthur Anderson started
> long before Bush got into office.
>
> Even the PBS timeline doesn't imply that Bush (or
> Cheney) had anything to do with ENRON directly.
>
> http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/enron/timeline9
> 0s.html
It was the Republican "de-regulate all industies" that allowed ENRON to get into trouble, That ALL happened under the Bush adminstration.
Same with the Banking industry! Republicans want all controls and government regulation gone so they can rob people blind!
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this happened before Bush even got into
> office. About the most damning thing about the
> whole issue is that they contributed money to
> Bush's campaign, and that I am guessing (based on
> the time line presented) that Cheney met with
> these folks (amongst others) when they had
> conversations about formulating energy policy. I
> don't remember seeing any proof of anything other
> than that - just endless speculation by bloggers
> that something sinister went on - which is of
> course why ENRON was taken apart while Bush was in
> office by his Justice Dept...?
>
> All the ENRON folks were prosecuted under Bush -
> but the fraud by ENRON and Arthur Anderson started
> long before Bush got into office.
>
> Even the PBS timeline doesn't imply that Bush (or
> Cheney) had anything to do with ENRON directly.
>
> http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/enron/timeline9
> 0s.html
It was the Republican "de-regulate all industies" that allowed ENRON to get into trouble, That ALL happened under the Bush adminstration.
Same with the Banking industry! Republicans want all controls and government regulation gone so they can rob people blind!
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Lopter
()
Date: July 23, 2009 02:26PM
It's pretty said when the President of US, Bush, has to stand in front of the country and save the banks are safe please don't worry.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
wuht
()
Date: July 23, 2009 02:34PM
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His spin on why Enron wasn't Bush's fault.
>
>
The reality of it is Bush and Lay were business associates and good friends who entered into several known partnerships up until the time Bush became Gov. That much is public. What the public does not know about is that he entered into several agreements in principal with certain Enron associates while he was Gov. and when he was campaigning for President in exchange for financial consideration. These agreements were never fulfilled, aside from the publicly disclosed campaign contributions. I'm not implying he had anything to do with the off-balance sheet activity or the shell games played by the Company, but do know and understand he was more "in-the-know" than Clinton could ever be. The reason for the DOJ prosecution was because it was the popular thing to do and the public would've had his head if not held accountable. Although, Lay did a commendable act by not throwing the President under the bus with these disclosures.
-------------------------------------------------------
> His spin on why Enron wasn't Bush's fault.
>
>
The reality of it is Bush and Lay were business associates and good friends who entered into several known partnerships up until the time Bush became Gov. That much is public. What the public does not know about is that he entered into several agreements in principal with certain Enron associates while he was Gov. and when he was campaigning for President in exchange for financial consideration. These agreements were never fulfilled, aside from the publicly disclosed campaign contributions. I'm not implying he had anything to do with the off-balance sheet activity or the shell games played by the Company, but do know and understand he was more "in-the-know" than Clinton could ever be. The reason for the DOJ prosecution was because it was the popular thing to do and the public would've had his head if not held accountable. Although, Lay did a commendable act by not throwing the President under the bus with these disclosures.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
formerhick76
()
Date: July 23, 2009 05:01PM
I wonder what will happen if the economy does not improve.
I figured that Bush and the Republicans had several years in which to implement their ideas. The recovery of 2002-08 was pretty lackluster in terms of the amount trickling down -- job creation was anemic and wage growth non-existent as the % of GDP going to corporate profits reached multi-decade highs (and wages reached multi-decade lows.)
Will social democratic/Third Way ideas work? Obama has four years -- FDR inherited a much worse situation and was able to start a turnaround by 1936 (unemployment had been cut in half and the GDP was back to pre-crash levels.) I do suspect if Obama is not doing so well in 2012, a non-kooky Green or independent candidate can get 4-5% of the vote like Anderson in 1980.
On the other hand, if unemployment peaks at 11% or so late this year and is back under double digits by November 2010, demographic trends and the helpful reminders of the improving economy will lead to gains of 5-10 seats in the House and 1-3 in the Senate for the Democrats.
I figured that Bush and the Republicans had several years in which to implement their ideas. The recovery of 2002-08 was pretty lackluster in terms of the amount trickling down -- job creation was anemic and wage growth non-existent as the % of GDP going to corporate profits reached multi-decade highs (and wages reached multi-decade lows.)
Will social democratic/Third Way ideas work? Obama has four years -- FDR inherited a much worse situation and was able to start a turnaround by 1936 (unemployment had been cut in half and the GDP was back to pre-crash levels.) I do suspect if Obama is not doing so well in 2012, a non-kooky Green or independent candidate can get 4-5% of the vote like Anderson in 1980.
On the other hand, if unemployment peaks at 11% or so late this year and is back under double digits by November 2010, demographic trends and the helpful reminders of the improving economy will lead to gains of 5-10 seats in the House and 1-3 in the Senate for the Democrats.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: July 25, 2009 12:21AM
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are the problem Vince - people like you. There
> are flavors of your kind on the other side of the
> political spectrum as well - too dumbed down by
> soundbite politics to even have an inkling of what
> rational thought is anymore.
+1
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince - you seriously are full of shit.
[...]
> You are the one that spouts hate and discontent. Based on some
> of the signatures shown here in recent weeks, it's
> obvious your charms wore thin on some of the other
> folks here too
+1
> Again, nothing to say other than "go away" *sniff*
[...]
> When you decide to actually have a discussion let
> me know.
[...]
> I have yet to see you offer a solution to any issue
> discussed here recently other than to complain
> about it or call the posters racist.
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you spout anything but hate from your mind?
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You represent the the best of the what the republikan
> party has to offer...hate and discontent. We dont need
> your kind anymore.
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Republikans are kowards.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2009 12:27AM by Gravis.
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are the problem Vince - people like you. There
> are flavors of your kind on the other side of the
> political spectrum as well - too dumbed down by
> soundbite politics to even have an inkling of what
> rational thought is anymore.
+1
Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince - you seriously are full of shit.
[...]
> You are the one that spouts hate and discontent. Based on some
> of the signatures shown here in recent weeks, it's
> obvious your charms wore thin on some of the other
> folks here too
+1
> Again, nothing to say other than "go away" *sniff*
[...]
> When you decide to actually have a discussion let
> me know.
[...]
> I have yet to see you offer a solution to any issue
> discussed here recently other than to complain
> about it or call the posters racist.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you spout anything but hate from your mind?
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You represent the the best of the what the republikan
> party has to offer...hate and discontent. We dont need
> your kind anymore.
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Republikans are kowards.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2009 12:27AM by Gravis.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
()
Date: July 25, 2009 12:38AM
can you say pwned 9 times! gravis just killed vince.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Jive Turkey
()
Date: July 25, 2009 10:57AM
Vince does have a point about Republicans, it just seems to get lost in translation. Maybe a toastmasters course will help him become articulate. Let's start a fundraiser tomorrow, like a car wash or bake sale.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
what great media presence
()
Date: July 25, 2009 11:43AM
Hope fully Obama handles summit conferences better than the Gates case. It will be a magic moment when he declares the Russians behaved "stupidly". Have the finger on the nukes ready.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
TheMeeper
()
Date: July 25, 2009 12:18PM
Yeah, after 40 years of cold war political conflict and military tension, the Russians are suddenly gonna launch nukes over the word "stupidly".
How fucking dumb is that notion??
what great media presence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hope fully Obama handles summit conferences better
> than the Gates case. It will be a magic moment
> when he declares the Russians behaved "stupidly".
> Have the finger on the nukes ready.
How fucking dumb is that notion??
what great media presence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hope fully Obama handles summit conferences better
> than the Gates case. It will be a magic moment
> when he declares the Russians behaved "stupidly".
> Have the finger on the nukes ready.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: July 25, 2009 12:36PM
those are all old rehashed cartoons from a guy who cant even bother to vote. I could care less what he has to say.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: July 25, 2009 12:37PM
wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> can you say pwned 9 times! gravis just killed
> vince.
You probably are Gravis patting yourself on the back.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
-------------------------------------------------------
> can you say pwned 9 times! gravis just killed
> vince.
You probably are Gravis patting yourself on the back.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Re: Obama's "Mission Accomplished" Moment
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: July 29, 2009 03:39PM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> those are all old rehashed cartoons from a guy who
> cant even bother to vote. I could care less what
> he has to say.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2009 03:40PM by Gravis.
-------------------------------------------------------
> those are all old rehashed cartoons from a guy who
> cant even bother to vote. I could care less what
> he has to say.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2009 03:40PM by Gravis.