http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124683595220397927.html

Ok... just curious about the thoughts on this. I looked around and didn't see a thread on it, so figured I would ask the question for a round of the short attention span theater folks to comment.

I don't get this at all. First, this guy Zelaya was trying to become another Chavez/Castro imitator, and the other parts of the civilian government did everything they could to legally stop him from doing something they said was unlawful. Then he and some supporters storm a military base to get ballots that Venezuela printed for him to use in support of his illegal referendum, and now everyone is all concerned because the military acted on orders from the legislature and the judiciary in having him removed. I think they were trying to do him a favor by just booting him from the country - but I would have to say anything Chavez is backing down there is not in the interests of the US.

I looked around but it is kind of hard to find anything that might point to the ability to impeach the president in Honduras like we can in the US. I would have to imagine that if they could have done it they would have. But this doesn't strike me as the typical military coup, and it seems we are taking the wrong track if we are trying to keep the region stable when we kind of back the guys that look like they are going to go to war over an internal matter to Honduras (makes it look pretty clear who was backing this guy and why).

I feel like we have had aliens take over the government in the US. From outer space. I mean now Biden is saying we can't interfere if Israel decides to attack Iran (sure it is posturing, but I would not take Israel lightly on this subject). North Korea is even more belligerent than ever... And here we are saying that Honduras should accept this jack ass back and all, even though it appears the remainder of the civilian authorities in the country were all behind his removal.

?

Certainly the situation in Honduras is much more complicated than recent news stories have portrayed it- Most of the coverage seems to run in one direction- "Honduras military takes over government, Obama calls for the return of the president, OAS expels Honduras from association, etc."

However, I have heard some coverage that the US had prior knowledge of the coup attempt, which essentially means the Honduran military leaders asked the CIA whether the US would intervene or complicity denounce the coup and otherwise do nothing substantive. Also, I heard that US military aid to Honduras has not been freezed pending the return of President Zelaya . . .

NY TIMES: Leader’s Ouster Not a Coup, Says the Honduran Military:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/world/americas/02coup.html

"When the army refused an order to help organize the referendum, the president fired the commander of the armed forces, Gen. Romeo Vásquez. He was reinstated by the Supreme Court, which found his removal illegal."

"The detention order, signed June 26 by a Supreme Court judge, ordered the armed forces to detain the president, identified by his full name, José Manuel Zelaya Rosales, at his home in the Tres Caminos area of Tegucigalpa, the capital. It accused him of treason and abuse of authority, among other charges."

WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124619401378065339.html

"The Obama administration and members of the Organization of American States had worked for weeks to try to avert any moves to overthrow President Zelaya, said senior U.S. officials. Washington's ambassador to Honduras, Hugo Llorens, sought to facilitate a dialogue between the president's office, the Honduran parliament and the military."

"The efforts accelerated over the weekend, as Washington grew increasingly alarmed. "The players decided, in the end, not to listen to our message," said one U.S. official involved in the diplomacy. On Sunday, the U.S. embassy here tried repeatedly to contact the Honduran military directly, but was rebuffed. Washington called the removal of President Zelaya a coup and said it wouldn't recognize any other leader."

What does Honduras do again?

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does Honduras do again?


Export illegals to America.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What does Honduras do again?
>
>
> Export illegals to America.

Oh. Are they slaughtering protesters or committing genocide?

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

I guess I just don't understand our apathetic response to this. Our government is sending the wrong message IMHO. At the rate this is going, Chavez or one of the other Venezuelan influenced countries down there will stage an issue to start a war with them. Do we really want to see that play out?

Hillary to Meet with Ousted Honduran President
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9995FD00&show_article=1

I dunno, are we just playing this to get all these guys fighting each other? It seems to me if we backed the civilian government that seems to be using legal reasons as to why he was removed, it would actually defuse this situation sooner than later...

If this area blows up due to the administration acting (or not acting) I can't see this as a good thing.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I just don't understand our apathetic
> response to this. Our government is sending the
> wrong message IMHO. At the rate this is going,
> Chavez or one of the other Venezuelan influenced
> countries down there will stage an issue to start
> a war with them. Do we really want to see that
> play out?
>
> Hillary to Meet with Ousted Honduran President
> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9995FD00&;
> show_article=1
>
> I dunno, are we just playing this to get all these
> guys fighting each other? It seems to me if we
> backed the civilian government that seems to be
> using legal reasons as to why he was removed, it
> would actually defuse this situation sooner than
> later...
>
> If this area blows up due to the administration
> acting (or not acting) I can't see this as a good
> thing.

I understand your concern; Chavez invades Honduras and gets backing from his nutjob pal in Iran. However:

A) Honduras's chief exports are bananas, coffee, and sugar. Venezuela has a shit-ton of oil. Unless Chavez plans on nationalizing the Venezuelan breakfast industry in the near future, he doesn't have a lot to gain from invading.

B) Chavez invading would get his country kicked out of the OAS, and crazy ol' Chavez has to at least be smart enough to know that would not be a Good Idea.

C) If all of the global leaders got together and had a wild party, Chavez would be the guy who wakes up with cocks drawn all over his face if he passes out.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

lol

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What does Honduras do again?
>
>
> Export illegals to America.


+1

Warhawk and ITRADE-

If you want illegal immigration to stop, then stable governments and responsible development in latin america should be your concern as well-

Also-
I think it would be extremely unlikely for Chavez to invade Honduras- Doing so would invite a direct military response from the United States, as well as isolate Venezuela internationally. The Honduran coup will probably be settled domestically, perhaps with the assistance and cooperation of the neighboring countries. Chavez will continue doing what he does best, talking on his daily talkshow, ranting about American imperialism, and rallying the poor people of Latin America against what he describes as oppressive capitalism.

Military coup attempts in Latin America are fairly common, only in 2002 (?) Chavez's regime was briefly overthrown by a CIA backed military faction. The only question in my mind is whether this latest coup in Honduras will be successful- How long will it take before the OAS and North and South American governments accept the new rulers of Honduras? Provided, of course, that they last . . .

MrMephisto Wrote:

>
> A) Honduras's chief exports are bananas, coffee,
> and sugar. Venezuela has a shit-ton of oil.
> Unless Chavez plans on nationalizing the
> Venezuelan breakfast industry in the near future,
> he doesn't have a lot to gain from invading.

If he did that, can you imagine the cost of a Starbucks triple shot latte whip foam expresso slim mocha? Oh, the humanity...


> C) If all of the global leaders got together and
> had a wild party, Chavez would be the guy who
> wakes up with cocks drawn all over his face if he
> passes out.

LMAO!! +1,000

And the United States would be making it rain on the Chinese strippers that were present.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

I'm not sure how Chavez would invade, aside from sending a few of his new planes up to make a few airstrikes. Said airstrikes would stop the moment we (or hell, even the Mexicans or Colombians) said, stop.

The thinking is, I suppose, that Obama/Biden/Hillary/et al don't want to look like Yanqui imperialists backing another coup to put another Yanqui puppet in place (i.e. playing into the chavista hands). On the other hand declaring Honduras' president as 100% legitimate (as Obama has been doing) isn't entirely accurate either, given that the rest of that country's democratic institutions were acting against Zelaya.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2009 01:02PM by formerhick76.

Note, I never said Chavez would invade, I said one of the countries that Venezuela influences - one of Honduras neighbor countries, not sure who. I just think at this point we are giving Chavez and those folks down there a green light to take whatever measures they might decide on to put this Zelaya goof back in office. They could claim they were restoring the "legitimate government" and then the democratic process in Honduras would be totally off the deep end. At least the guy they swore in has made it clear he will put it up for election no later than November. I think they should do it sooner though so Chavez or others don't have time to put money into the election and try to swing the vote.

Good old Wikpedia has a decent article



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_political_crisis

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Yah, wikipedia is the best0rz!

Dumbass.