Arlington :
Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Taxes
Posted by:
Font
()
Date: March 22, 2005 09:59PM
My taxes have gone up 100% in the last 2 yeras and about 200% since 1999. This in an era of 0% inflation generally. I not making 200% more money. We need a good old fashioned tax revolt. The county should set a goal of a 0% growth in spending each year. Do more with less; that's what everyone else in the world does these days, its time for walmart government.
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
ben
()
Date: March 31, 2005 05:00PM
You hit the nail (partially) on the head. Even if the tax rates haven't gone up, it's still a tax hike. (Though I bet you can't find a politician that will actually call it a tax hike!)
I have an idea. Lets get rid of property taxes altogether so that people can actually own things. If you have to pay the government every year to keep your land, you don't actually own it. And that's not cool.
/Vote libertarian!
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2005 05:02PM by ben.
I have an idea. Lets get rid of property taxes altogether so that people can actually own things. If you have to pay the government every year to keep your land, you don't actually own it. And that's not cool.
/Vote libertarian!
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2005 05:02PM by ben.
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
jgumby
()
Date: April 17, 2005 05:35PM
Just out of curiosity, when the property taxes are eliminated (I presume the car tax will be part of this), how will Arlington County pay for anything?
We could hike up the sales tax. But then people will go to Alexandria, Falls Church, etc, and buy goods there. And local businesses aren't going to like that.
We could increase the gasoline tax. But once again, people will go to neighboring localities and buy their gas.
And with this drain of income, the schools, parks, roads and other areas that are publicly funded will go down the crapper. Have you ever driven in DC? Notice how much the roads suck? Want our's to be that bad? (And hell, some of our roads _are_ that bad.)
Which leaves us with: instituting a local income tax. Which as solutions go, isn't too bad. It certainly helps to spread the funding around, so now the people who do not own property in the county get to shoulder more of the financial burden. Of course, people will complain about paying more income tax. And there will be the usual cries from both the rich and the poor that they're paying too much. And the bleeding hearts will say "it's a huge economic burden to poor people." And there's still the fact that you have to pay the county money.
So, until you can convince enough people that it will be grand to pay more income tax, why not work on finding ways to decrease the county's spending? All of that money you're paying in property tax has to go _somewhere_, so put a stop on the drain at the source. And then, once things are on track financially, you can start looking at lowering the tax rates.
Oh, and a little anectdote: A few months ago, I was standing in line, waiting to pay the bill for my car tax (they get really annoyed when you're late, for some reason.) The lady in front of me was irate. "Why has my [property] tax gone up so much? It was only $xxx last year!" The women helping her politely pointed out that her property had been re-assessed that year, so her taxes went up accordingly. Why do I bring this up? Just because your tax bill has gone up 200% in the last six years, it's not all due to increased tax rates. And somehow, I don't think you'll be complaining too much when you decide to sell your house (at a tidy profit) and move to Outer Suburbia.
We could hike up the sales tax. But then people will go to Alexandria, Falls Church, etc, and buy goods there. And local businesses aren't going to like that.
We could increase the gasoline tax. But once again, people will go to neighboring localities and buy their gas.
And with this drain of income, the schools, parks, roads and other areas that are publicly funded will go down the crapper. Have you ever driven in DC? Notice how much the roads suck? Want our's to be that bad? (And hell, some of our roads _are_ that bad.)
Which leaves us with: instituting a local income tax. Which as solutions go, isn't too bad. It certainly helps to spread the funding around, so now the people who do not own property in the county get to shoulder more of the financial burden. Of course, people will complain about paying more income tax. And there will be the usual cries from both the rich and the poor that they're paying too much. And the bleeding hearts will say "it's a huge economic burden to poor people." And there's still the fact that you have to pay the county money.
So, until you can convince enough people that it will be grand to pay more income tax, why not work on finding ways to decrease the county's spending? All of that money you're paying in property tax has to go _somewhere_, so put a stop on the drain at the source. And then, once things are on track financially, you can start looking at lowering the tax rates.
Oh, and a little anectdote: A few months ago, I was standing in line, waiting to pay the bill for my car tax (they get really annoyed when you're late, for some reason.) The lady in front of me was irate. "Why has my [property] tax gone up so much? It was only $xxx last year!" The women helping her politely pointed out that her property had been re-assessed that year, so her taxes went up accordingly. Why do I bring this up? Just because your tax bill has gone up 200% in the last six years, it's not all due to increased tax rates. And somehow, I don't think you'll be complaining too much when you decide to sell your house (at a tidy profit) and move to Outer Suburbia.
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
ben
()
Date: April 17, 2005 07:34PM
jgumby Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
> So, until you can convince enough people that it
> will be grand to pay more income tax, why not work
> on finding ways to decrease the county's spending?
> All of that money you're paying in property tax
> has to go _somewhere_, so put a stop on the drain
> at the source. And then, once things are on track
> financially, you can start looking at lowering the
> tax rates.
That's the whole libertarian (lower-case l) bent- get the government out of everything that it doesn't need to be in.
An income tax is preferable to a property tax. If you are taxed on what property you own, that means that if you don't pay the government, they can seize your property. Therefore, you don't actually *own* it.
Notice how with the car tax, they didn't actually decrease the tax rate- they're giving "relief" instead. You still owe the government the full amount, but they're giving you a reprieve. That's a real nice way of doing business.
> Oh, and a little anectdote: A few months ago, I
> was standing in line, waiting to pay the bill for
> my car tax (they get really annoyed when you're
> late, for some reason.) The lady in front of me
> was irate. "Why has my tax gone up so much? It
> was only $xxx last year!" The women helping her
> politely pointed out that her property had been
> re-assessed that year, so her taxes went up
> accordingly. Why do I bring this up? Just
> because your tax bill has gone up 200% in the last
> six years, it's not all due to increased tax
> rates. And somehow, I don't think you'll be
> complaining too much when you decide to sell your
> house (at a tidy profit) and move to Outer
> Suburbia.
You don't seem to understand that even though they didn't increase the tax rate, it's still a tax increase. Either they tax each piece of land (by lot or square footage) or they adjust the tax rate down to account for an increase in assessments- otherwise, rising assessments are a tax increase. If you own a piece of property, made no improvements on it, and the tax rate wasn't adjusted, then any increase in your tax liability to the government is a tax increase.
And though you say the lady is bitching, you have to think about unrealized gains.
Consider this:
I bought $10,000 in stocks at the beginning of the year. At the end of the year, they were worth $20,000. Should I pay taxes on them?
If you say yes, just realize you'd be screwing a huge amount of lower and middle class families that save for the future. For long term investments, investing well becomes a punishment rather than an incentive if you have to pay taxes on unrealized gains. Why should it be that way with property taxes?
------------------------------------------------------->
> So, until you can convince enough people that it
> will be grand to pay more income tax, why not work
> on finding ways to decrease the county's spending?
> All of that money you're paying in property tax
> has to go _somewhere_, so put a stop on the drain
> at the source. And then, once things are on track
> financially, you can start looking at lowering the
> tax rates.
That's the whole libertarian (lower-case l) bent- get the government out of everything that it doesn't need to be in.
An income tax is preferable to a property tax. If you are taxed on what property you own, that means that if you don't pay the government, they can seize your property. Therefore, you don't actually *own* it.
Notice how with the car tax, they didn't actually decrease the tax rate- they're giving "relief" instead. You still owe the government the full amount, but they're giving you a reprieve. That's a real nice way of doing business.
> Oh, and a little anectdote: A few months ago, I
> was standing in line, waiting to pay the bill for
> my car tax (they get really annoyed when you're
> late, for some reason.) The lady in front of me
> was irate. "Why has my tax gone up so much? It
> was only $xxx last year!" The women helping her
> politely pointed out that her property had been
> re-assessed that year, so her taxes went up
> accordingly. Why do I bring this up? Just
> because your tax bill has gone up 200% in the last
> six years, it's not all due to increased tax
> rates. And somehow, I don't think you'll be
> complaining too much when you decide to sell your
> house (at a tidy profit) and move to Outer
> Suburbia.
You don't seem to understand that even though they didn't increase the tax rate, it's still a tax increase. Either they tax each piece of land (by lot or square footage) or they adjust the tax rate down to account for an increase in assessments- otherwise, rising assessments are a tax increase. If you own a piece of property, made no improvements on it, and the tax rate wasn't adjusted, then any increase in your tax liability to the government is a tax increase.
And though you say the lady is bitching, you have to think about unrealized gains.
Consider this:
I bought $10,000 in stocks at the beginning of the year. At the end of the year, they were worth $20,000. Should I pay taxes on them?
If you say yes, just realize you'd be screwing a huge amount of lower and middle class families that save for the future. For long term investments, investing well becomes a punishment rather than an incentive if you have to pay taxes on unrealized gains. Why should it be that way with property taxes?
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
Randy
()
Date: April 17, 2005 07:44PM
Do you really think that the way VA is handling car taxes is a good idea? The car tax is one of the few ways that localities can raise money for themselves the way it works now is that your car tax is decreased, but the localities still get the same amount of money. The money has to come from somewhere so the state of VA kicks it in, and where do they get the money? From all of the other taxes that we pay. Unless you cut serves tax cuts are a zero sum game. The money always has to come from somewhere.
Property taxes are one of the fairest taxes out there, the better the services in the county that you live in the better chance you have that your house will maintain or increase its value.
Property taxes are one of the fairest taxes out there, the better the services in the county that you live in the better chance you have that your house will maintain or increase its value.
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
ben
()
Date: April 17, 2005 08:26PM
Randy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you really think that the way VA is handling
> car taxes is a good idea? The car tax is one of
> the few ways that localities can raise money for
> themselves the way it works now is that your car
> tax is decreased, but the localities still get the
> same amount of money. The money has to come from
> somewhere so the state of VA kicks it in, and
> where do they get the money? From all of the
> other taxes that we pay. Unless you cut serves
> tax cuts are a zero sum game. The money always
> has to come from somewhere.
>
> Property taxes are one of the fairest taxes out
> there, the better the services in the county that
> you live in the better chance you have that your
> house will maintain or increase its value.
No, I think the way that VA is handling the car tax is a horrible idea. Either they tax it or they don't tax it. None of this "relief" crap- don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
You also forget that the car tax relief for the rest of the state is coming out of your state income taxes. Northern VA subsidizes the rest of this god awful state.
For most people, the primary purpose of buying a house isn't as an investment. I need to buy a house in Fairfax so that I can live in it, not so I can turn it around in 2 years and make 50% on it. I need to buy a house in Fairfax so I don't spend 4 hours a day commuting to/from Gainesville to Vienna so I can hope to have a career one day, not so I can flip it after two months and turn a profit.
Besides, what services make people want a house? Police presence + schools. The counties & states piss an enormous amount of money away on useless crap, just like the fed does, and all that comes out of your pocket. The reason that our housing market is booming isn't the great services we have, it's because of the area job market- the federal government continues to hemorrhage money, and the contracting companies are there to suck it all up. I sure as hell don't want to stay here because of the fantastic roads and great public transportation system- and this is at a time when the counties and state are making so much money that they don't know how to spend it all!
It's what I said in the previous post- they need to automatically adjust the tax rate down with the increase in assessments. Anything else is a tax increase. You can read the previous posts to see why property taxes are a bad form of taxation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2005 08:28PM by ben.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you really think that the way VA is handling
> car taxes is a good idea? The car tax is one of
> the few ways that localities can raise money for
> themselves the way it works now is that your car
> tax is decreased, but the localities still get the
> same amount of money. The money has to come from
> somewhere so the state of VA kicks it in, and
> where do they get the money? From all of the
> other taxes that we pay. Unless you cut serves
> tax cuts are a zero sum game. The money always
> has to come from somewhere.
>
> Property taxes are one of the fairest taxes out
> there, the better the services in the county that
> you live in the better chance you have that your
> house will maintain or increase its value.
No, I think the way that VA is handling the car tax is a horrible idea. Either they tax it or they don't tax it. None of this "relief" crap- don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
You also forget that the car tax relief for the rest of the state is coming out of your state income taxes. Northern VA subsidizes the rest of this god awful state.
For most people, the primary purpose of buying a house isn't as an investment. I need to buy a house in Fairfax so that I can live in it, not so I can turn it around in 2 years and make 50% on it. I need to buy a house in Fairfax so I don't spend 4 hours a day commuting to/from Gainesville to Vienna so I can hope to have a career one day, not so I can flip it after two months and turn a profit.
Besides, what services make people want a house? Police presence + schools. The counties & states piss an enormous amount of money away on useless crap, just like the fed does, and all that comes out of your pocket. The reason that our housing market is booming isn't the great services we have, it's because of the area job market- the federal government continues to hemorrhage money, and the contracting companies are there to suck it all up. I sure as hell don't want to stay here because of the fantastic roads and great public transportation system- and this is at a time when the counties and state are making so much money that they don't know how to spend it all!
It's what I said in the previous post- they need to automatically adjust the tax rate down with the increase in assessments. Anything else is a tax increase. You can read the previous posts to see why property taxes are a bad form of taxation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2005 08:28PM by ben.
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
jgumby
()
Date: April 17, 2005 09:12PM
To quote:
Besides, what services make people want a house? Police presence + schools.
Hmmm.
- Fire protection
- EMS
- Medicine
- Building new roads
- Repairing existing roads (don't forget snow removal!)
- Jails (police presence implies that there are police around to stop crimes, but you've got to do something with the criminals)
- Courts
- Sanitation (water, sewage, solid waste pickup)
- Parks
- Metro
But apart from all of that, what have the Romans has the government done for us?
Besides, what services make people want a house? Police presence + schools.
Hmmm.
- Fire protection
- EMS
- Medicine
- Building new roads
- Repairing existing roads (don't forget snow removal!)
- Jails (police presence implies that there are police around to stop crimes, but you've got to do something with the criminals)
- Courts
- Sanitation (water, sewage, solid waste pickup)
- Parks
- Metro
But apart from all of that, what have the Romans has the government done for us?
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
ben
()
Date: April 17, 2005 09:56PM
jgumby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hmmm.
> - Fire protection
> - EMS
> - Medicine
> - Building new roads
> - Repairing existing roads (don't forget snow
> removal!)
> - Jails (police presence implies that there are
> police around to stop crimes, but you've got to do
> something with the criminals)
> - Courts
> - Sanitation (water, sewage, solid waste pickup)
> - Parks
> - Metro
>
> But apart from all of that, what have the Romans
> has the government done for us?
Yes, some of those things that the county needs to pay for- no question.
Some of them you pay for separately anyway, so that's a moot point.
And some of them (metro) are such a fucking joke we should never mention them again in this conversation about why people want to live here.
What I'm trying to point out is that for what we pay in taxes, the county and state are doing a pitiful job of managing the money. If I'm paying three times as much in property taxes, shouldn't I be seeing three times as much quality in services? Even with the increase in property and the 11% sales tax increase (even after the people of the state said NO) they're still bickering about funding the expansion of public transportation in Fairfax, which NEEDS TO BE DONE to control traffic.
My tuition is increasing every semester, the roads are horrible ALL around the county (my suspension is blown in all four corners and one of my tires has to be replaced from hitting potholes), most publicly administered programs are worthless (have you ever actually tried to USE metro access?), they're considering charging for ambulance services, and they CHARGE prisoners for room and board?!
Instead of useful services, we have a fancy new government building in Fairfax, two police helicopters cum money pits that the county has no problem using at the drop of a hat, a public transportation system that's a joke, congestion that gets worse and worse with every passing development that's built, AND NO END TO IT IN SIGHT.
Believe me, I'm glad they're doing work to Rt. 28. It's needed. But nobody comes to this area for the great court system, or the fantastically upkept roads, or the world-class sanitation. They come to the area because of the job market, the diversity, the culture, and the opportunities.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hmmm.
> - Fire protection
> - EMS
> - Medicine
> - Building new roads
> - Repairing existing roads (don't forget snow
> removal!)
> - Jails (police presence implies that there are
> police around to stop crimes, but you've got to do
> something with the criminals)
> - Courts
> - Sanitation (water, sewage, solid waste pickup)
> - Parks
> - Metro
>
> But apart from all of that, what have the Romans
> has the government done for us?
Yes, some of those things that the county needs to pay for- no question.
Some of them you pay for separately anyway, so that's a moot point.
And some of them (metro) are such a fucking joke we should never mention them again in this conversation about why people want to live here.
What I'm trying to point out is that for what we pay in taxes, the county and state are doing a pitiful job of managing the money. If I'm paying three times as much in property taxes, shouldn't I be seeing three times as much quality in services? Even with the increase in property and the 11% sales tax increase (even after the people of the state said NO) they're still bickering about funding the expansion of public transportation in Fairfax, which NEEDS TO BE DONE to control traffic.
My tuition is increasing every semester, the roads are horrible ALL around the county (my suspension is blown in all four corners and one of my tires has to be replaced from hitting potholes), most publicly administered programs are worthless (have you ever actually tried to USE metro access?), they're considering charging for ambulance services, and they CHARGE prisoners for room and board?!
Instead of useful services, we have a fancy new government building in Fairfax, two police helicopters cum money pits that the county has no problem using at the drop of a hat, a public transportation system that's a joke, congestion that gets worse and worse with every passing development that's built, AND NO END TO IT IN SIGHT.
Believe me, I'm glad they're doing work to Rt. 28. It's needed. But nobody comes to this area for the great court system, or the fantastically upkept roads, or the world-class sanitation. They come to the area because of the job market, the diversity, the culture, and the opportunities.
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
Paul
()
Date: August 31, 2005 07:18PM
Did the cost of govt service double over last couple years? No- but the politicians will find a way to spend the money.
Jgumby I have some ...
Posted by:
Flame
()
Date: September 17, 2005 03:18AM
beach front property for you in Iowa. Great location and great price. You must be stupid or on drugs if you truly are naive enough to state what you stated on taxes in Arlington County.
Arlington County has become a socialist state at the expense of its tax paying citizens. In approximately 1985 they started the Arlington County Housing Authority. My mother was a school teacher and they had just closed Walter Reed Elementary School because the county had minimal students. The Housing Authority brought in every Tom, Dick, and Harry that wanted welfare.
Irresponsible people bring in children, children need schools. It also brought in crime, welfare, medicade, and we use buz words (noted above) regarding south Arlington.
Fairfax is almost as bad.
Our counties don't deliver services to the tax paying citizen, if you don't believe me, call 911 in Fairfax and get a bill for $ 300 and pay per mile.
Wake UP!!
Arlington County has become a socialist state at the expense of its tax paying citizens. In approximately 1985 they started the Arlington County Housing Authority. My mother was a school teacher and they had just closed Walter Reed Elementary School because the county had minimal students. The Housing Authority brought in every Tom, Dick, and Harry that wanted welfare.
Irresponsible people bring in children, children need schools. It also brought in crime, welfare, medicade, and we use buz words (noted above) regarding south Arlington.
Fairfax is almost as bad.
Our counties don't deliver services to the tax paying citizen, if you don't believe me, call 911 in Fairfax and get a bill for $ 300 and pay per mile.
Wake UP!!
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
John Rambo
()
Date: July 20, 2006 08:59PM
If you voted Democrate then you can stop complaining about taxes.
Liberals suck!
Liberals suck!
Re: Taxes
Posted by:
RESton Peace
()
Date: July 21, 2006 10:11PM
what if you vote like I do and vote for some republicans, some democrats, and some third-party guys? I've never voted a straight ticket in a november election in my entire life, and I've never missed one (boy was that a mistake, turns out those are the first guys chosen for jury duty).
Can I bitch about taxes then?
And since most of the bitching is about local taxes, is any republican I voted for for national office exluded from my list?
You can't just make it so cut-and dry. I'd like you to show me the voting records for each democrat you have a problem with, and then show me the voting records of republicans in the same assemblies on the same issues. I have a feeling the data would belie your rather eloquent argument.
Can I bitch about taxes then?
And since most of the bitching is about local taxes, is any republican I voted for for national office exluded from my list?
You can't just make it so cut-and dry. I'd like you to show me the voting records for each democrat you have a problem with, and then show me the voting records of republicans in the same assemblies on the same issues. I have a feeling the data would belie your rather eloquent argument.