Another unfrigginbelievable "news" story on TJ:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/education/2012/05/one-third-tj-freshmen-need-math-science-remediation/623696

160 TJ students are "not ready" for HS math and science? And you don't know why? Really???? How hard can this be to figure out? You could answer this question in short order just by surveying the students in the current freshman class.

You have a study set of 480. For each one, list the 7th and 8th grade math and science classes (and levels), school and teacher names, and grades earned. Then list the TJ prep work they did. All of it. The test prep classes. The SAT prep classes and their scores when they took it in 7th grade (not that it matters, but apparently the word is out that taking the SAT in 7th grade helps your admission probability). The resume-padding activities, clubs, camps, etc.

Then list all their other activities in 7th and 8th grades: sports (competitive and recreational), scouts, church, babysitting, chores, whatever.

Ask how they studied in middle school: alone, groups, home, school, tutored, etc.

Ask what their first language was, and what language is spoken at home.

One final question: Why do you want to be here?

End with a short interview if time permits to clarify and fill in the gaps, then annotate with their raw scores on the TJ admission test and the amount of remedial work the child needed once arriving at TJ.

The trends will jump out at you.

Do this now. There are many free days during the final three weeks of school. You will have your answers by the June School Board meeting.

Apply what you learn to next year's admission process.

Oh, and publish the results AND the data that was collected to reach these conclusions.

As I recall, this is the first year that TJ has had a "dedicated" admissions officer who was hired to bring in minorities. Did she make changes to the test? Is this a new problem at TJ?

I went to the Examiner and read the article. There's very little information in it.

In my opinion, if a student needs remediation--or special services such as ESOL--he/she does not belong at TJ.

They are probably looking at admissions like colleges do now. Letting in people who don't belong for demographics or because people who aren't as smart are somehow beneficial to the student body.

The university I attended was considered by Princeton Review as "very selective" or something like that. The student profile had a upper end SAT and most students were from the top 10% of their high school classes. Later on, I found out there were classes with students who didn't know trigonometry and struggled with algebra? These are "top tier" students? No, they were apparently there to increase the diversity of the student body, and were evidently also going there for something close to free.

Screwed up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are probably looking at admissions like
> colleges do now. Letting in people who don't
> belong for demographics or because people who
> aren't as smart are somehow beneficial to the
> student body.
>
> The university I attended was considered by
> Princeton Review as "very selective" or something
> like that. The student profile had a upper end
> SAT and most students were from the top 10% of
> their high school classes. Later on, I found out
> there were classes with students who didn't know
> trigonometry and struggled with algebra? These
> are "top tier" students? No, they were apparently
> there to increase the diversity of the student
> body, and were evidently also going there for
> something close to free.


when will you all understand that rankings have factors that have NOTHING to do with academics. schools also manipulate their stats to look better. small, expensive private schools will rank higher because parents want something for their money. alumni donations and reputation are factors even if the school doesn't have the same reputation as it did 30 years ago. schools that don't provide information or refuse to participate can show up as unranked. graduating in 4 years is a factor but many do not graduate in 4 years if they took time off to work to make money to pay for college or if they changed a major and need more classes. highly selective can mean it is a small college set in a desireable location so the amount of acceptances is small compared to the number of applications hence making it highly selective. online schools are the butt of many jokes but it is considered a new wave idea when vt puts all of its freshman math classes online. many schools are following the money and taking kids from out of area who will pay more. looks like TJ is following suit.

Screwed up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are probably looking at admissions like
> colleges do now. Letting in people who don't
> belong for demographics or because people who
> aren't as smart are somehow beneficial to the
> student body.
>

If TJ's admissions offers are intentionally being adjusted for demographic reasons the TJ admissions officers should be fired for incompetence. Published TJ class admissions information shows that the current class is following the same demographic trends indicated in earlier classes. Besides if you pick a demographic I'll bet you would have little difficulty finding a kid in that group who could handle TJ without having to receive special assistance in English, math or science.

I don't think the problem is with letting in people who aren't as smart either. If anything I think it is the reverse. This problem began when TJ started admitting students needing additional work in English but who "had so much potential" and had desirable accomplishments in other areas. Once they accepted that getting the "top students" meant admitting students who were less than ready to attend TJ without help in one academic area, it became easier to accept students who were less than ready in other academic areas.

TJ's admissions department is a load of crap. This is well known.

As a TJ student I can say that the Freshmen this year are awful. For the first time ever, TJ has had a theft problem. There has also been abundant vandalism, resulting in the removal of "damageable" resources from student access. I hope they fix this stuff, because I can't take another year of it. It seems like the "it" that every other class of TJ students had/has was lost among this one.

anonymousffdgdfgfdf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a TJ student I can say that the Freshmen this
> year are awful. For the first time ever, TJ has
> had a theft problem. There has also been abundant
> vandalism, resulting in the removal of
> "damageable" resources from student access. I hope
> they fix this stuff, because I can't take another
> year of it. It seems like the "it" that every
> other class of TJ students had/has was lost among
> this one.


+1

Truth has been stated by a student who obviously knows.

At one time TJ had no bells, or backpacks locked up, no tardies recorded, no theft issues, etc.

I honestly get trying to include socio/economical students into the admissions proicess BUT, if the trial fails so to speak, then rescind the idea and move on from it.

On a similar note:

It's funny how FCPS is so data driven when it comes to SOL's graduates, Free & Reduced Lunch, yada, yada, yada. But when it comes to failing grades, dropouts, vandalism, crime, etc, FCPS, along with society in general, runs like hell from the data as to who makes up the bulk of the incidents; minorities. Hispanic, etc. And it has more to do with economics than race.

Why do we run from those numbers though? And why do we make excuses?

And for God's sake don't come back with I am a racist. It is a fact. And if numbers don't lie about graduation rates, “who” graduates, etc, then they can't all of a sudden lie about other categories.

Let’s help those who need it, yes. But let’s not put them in a position where they will fail, or have the numbers skewed to make it look like they are succeeding when they are not.

Thank you so much. I just received news that I was accepted and was extremely upset when I found out who didn't get in. I personally think that I deserve to be at TJ but some of my friends were amazing applicants and were rejected. These are people who are in Algebra 2 and Trigonometry and Longfellow in 7th grade, most of which score extremely well on the AMC 10 and AIME! TJ needs to fix this or it will no longer deserve its reputation as a haven for smart kids.

so these kids are taking calculus in 9th grade? What do they take in 10th, 11th and 12th grades then?

do they graduate early Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so these kids are taking calculus in 9th grade?
> What do they take in 10th, 11th and 12th grades
> then?
Attachments:

do they graduate early Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so these kids are taking calculus in 9th grade?
> What do they take in 10th, 11th and 12th grades
> then?

They take multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations, complex variables (dealing with the square root of -1) and AP Statistics.

They will first tale pre calculus and then move on to bigger and and scarier mathematic disciplines. It is TJ's loss to not admit them. The math portion of the test should be heavily timed like the AMC 8. Math Contest type math would result in an obvious curve and would weed out those who don't have as much mathematical talent.

Successful TJ Applicant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They will first tale pre calculus and then move on
> to bigger and and scarier mathematic disciplines.
> It is TJ's loss to not admit them. The math
> portion of the test should be heavily timed like
> the AMC 8. Math Contest type math would result in
> an obvious curve and would weed out those who
> don't have as much mathematical talent.


As has been discussed in other threads, if the mission of TJ is as its name claims, the math portion should be much harder and should count far more than it does today. The current admissions process may be appropriate for a liberal arts high school, but it's dreadful for selecting math/science kids.

Suk Mai Dong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They take multivariable calculus, linear algebra,
> differential equations, complex variables (dealing
> with the square root of -1) and AP Statistics.

Lol, I like you just defined one of those, as if you presume people would be familiar with differential equations but not with what a complex number is. Maybe that's not what you meant, but it was amusing to me.

And on a side note, does TJ even offer in-person courses for DiffEQ and Complex Analysis (which I assume is the course you would be referencing), or is it some online learning they do through college(s) ?


[Which, FWIW, I would highly recommend Arthur Mattuck's DiffEQ lectures on the MIT Open Courseware site, or through the youtube playlist]

snowdenscold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suk Mai Dong Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They take multivariable calculus, linear
> algebra,
> > differential equations, complex variables
> (dealing
> > with the square root of -1) and AP Statistics.
>
> Lol, I like you just defined one of those, as if
> you presume people would be familiar with
> differential equations but not with what a complex
> number is. Maybe that's not what you meant, but it
> was amusing to me.
>
> And on a side note, does TJ even offer in-person
> courses for DiffEQ and Complex Analysis (which I
> assume is the course you would be referencing), or
> is it some online learning they do through
> college(s) ?
>
>
> [Which, FWIW, I would highly recommend Arthur
> Mattuck's DiffEQ lectures on the MIT Open
> Courseware site, or through the youtube playlist]

Yes, in-house courses.

The name of the course is "Complex Variables." The sticklers reserve "Complex Analysis" for subsequent courses.

I rarely read, and have never posted, on a site like this because my time is so limited, so you may not see me again. I am making an exception this morning because I have something substantive to contribute to your discussion.

I have a junior at TJ and an 8th grader entering TJ in the fall. My junior wanted to take Differential Equations last fall, however, the class in which she was enrolled "collapsed" because there were not enough students enrolled who were qualified to take it. I note that there was one other differential equations class taught at TJ last fall; however, it was not possible for my junior to transfer into it. I understand from my junior that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. In addition, I am aware of TJ applicants who are currently classmates of my 8th grader who are exceptionally talented in math and science (one of whom would have been taking Calculus BC as a freshman at TJ, had he been admitted). Finally, I understand my 8th grader that the math portion of the admissions test was not difficult. For these reasons, I concur that the admissions process is not designed to identify the most talented math and science students.

As an aside, I note that TJ also offers a math course, designed by one of the best teachers at TJ, called "Advanced Mathematical Techniques."

It sounds like some of these students (the 8th grader who is ready for Calculus BC) should be entering college early. Is this a possibility? George Mason is just down the road and they, no doubt, have higher level courses available. Just a thought. There must be a way.

Who cares about the scores, as long as they've got that school SPIRIT?

Jobs await them…Cutco, Primerica, Vector Marketing…

+1

The new generation of kids is full of bad parents who teach their kids no morals, no ethics, or anything else. It is all about getting ahead and knocking others down. The parents and as a result their kids are often sociopaths.

I know a kid who currently he goes there. He is psycho and so is his mom. He even nearly died several times because his idiot mom keeps telling how smart he is and that he knows more than the doctors and therefore he can choose his own insulin levels which resulted in him nearly dying several times. He attacked a 50 something year old woman over a pack of hot dogs. He picks his nose and sticks his hands in food after picking his nose. He thinks it is funny to prick his fingers and smear blood all over.

Yet all his bimbo helicopter mom can say is what a math genius.


anonymousffdgdfgfdf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a TJ student I can say that the Freshmen this
> year are awful. For the first time ever, TJ has
> had a theft problem. There has also been abundant
> vandalism, resulting in the removal of
> "damageable" resources from student access. I hope
> they fix this stuff, because I can't take another
> year of it. It seems like the "it" that every
> other class of TJ students had/has was lost among
> this one.

But of course Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At one time TJ had no bells, or backpacks locked
> up, no tardies recorded, no theft issues, etc.
>
> I honestly get trying to include socio/economical
> students into the admissions proicess BUT, if the
> trial fails so to speak, then rescind the idea and
> move on from it.

Difficulty with this argument is that the discipline problems and the remediation problems are arising at a time when TJHSST is becoming less socio-economically diverse.

other resources? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds like some of these students (the 8th
> grader who is ready for Calculus BC) should be
> entering college early. Is this a possibility?
> George Mason is just down the road and they, no
> doubt, have higher level courses available.

There used to be a program through NoVa where your kid could attend HS part time and NoVa part time, and come out with a HS diploma plus a couple of years of college credits.

katiesmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> +1
>
> The new generation of kids is full of bad parents
> who teach their kids no morals, no ethics, or
> anything else. It is all about getting ahead and
> knocking others down. The parents and as a result
> their kids are often sociopaths.
>
> I know a kid who currently he goes there. He is
> psycho and so is his mom. He even nearly died
> several times because his idiot mom keeps telling
> how smart he is and that he knows more than the
> doctors and therefore he can choose his own
> insulin levels which resulted in him nearly dying
> several times. He attacked a 50 something year
> old woman over a pack of hot dogs. He picks his
> nose and sticks his hands in food after picking
> his nose. He thinks it is funny to prick his
> fingers and smear blood all over.
>
> Yet all his bimbo helicopter mom can say is what a
> math genius.
>
>
> anonymousffdgdfgfdf Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As a TJ student I can say that the Freshmen
> this
> > year are awful. For the first time ever, TJ has
> > had a theft problem. There has also been
> abundant
> > vandalism, resulting in the removal of
> > "damageable" resources from student access. I
> hope
> > they fix this stuff, because I can't take
> another
> > year of it. It seems like the "it" that every
> > other class of TJ students had/has was lost
> among
> > this one.


So you claim to know one kid out of 1800. That is a representative sample. Not.

Better get those kids through differential equations fast. Bright bulbs burn quickly. Most won't live to see 30.