I may be moving to Fairfax in the next couple of months (most likely the city of Fairfax but that is still flexible) and I had a few questions about living in the area...

1. I see a lot of condos/townhouses on the mls. Are condos/townhouses considered to be typical housing for families (where I am from most people live in single family houses)?

2. How are the schools?

3. **Are there any bad areas of Fairfax that I should stay away from?**

4. I know traffic is bad but does it typically flow a certain way at certain times (i.e.: toward DC in the mornings and away from DC in the evenings...)?


Any other helpful suggestions you can provide would be appreciated. Thank you.

Mim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I may be moving to Fairfax in the next couple of
> months (most likely the city of Fairfax but that
> is still flexible) and I had a few questions about
> living in the area...
>
> 1. I see a lot of condos/townhouses on the mls.
> Are condos/townhouses considered to be typical
> housing for families (where I am from most people
> live in single family houses)?

Most families in this area live in single family homes. Some live in townhomes, even fewer live in condos. Housing is expensive in this area.

> 2. How are the schools?

Completely overrated. Most will try and tell you that the schools here are among the best in the country. The reality is far from that contention.

> 3. **Are there any bad areas of Fairfax that I
> should stay away from?**

Culmore, Hybla Valley, Sterling Park, London Towne. There is a thread on this somewhere on this board. A search for Culmore should lead you to it.

> 4. I know traffic is bad but does it typically
> flow a certain way at certain times (i.e.: toward
> DC in the mornings and away from DC in the
> evenings...)?

It used to, but now there is no such thing as a reverse commute. Live close to your job.

> Any other helpful suggestions you can provide
> would be appreciated. Thank you.

Don't be afraid to sacrifice certain amenities to live closer to your place of employment. I am not saying live in a shoebox, but find a house that meets your needs as close as you can.

Why the hell would you want to move here?

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/836062.html


I can't wait to get out of this dump. July can't come any sooner

Schools are only good because there is high % of college level educated people living here, the school quality has noting to do with the school system.

other then that i agree 100% with IDK

Mim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I may be moving to Fairfax in the next couple of
> months (most likely the city of Fairfax but that
> is still flexible) and I had a few questions about
> living in the area...
>
> 1. I see a lot of condos/townhouses on the mls.
> Are condos/townhouses considered to be typical
> housing for families (where I am from most people
> live in single family houses)?
>
Starters in the area often start in condos or apartments. Homes in even decent neighborhoods start at a -minimun- of $400,000 with most being north of $500,000.

> 2. How are the schools?

Average to excellent. Depends on where you want to live and what you can afford. Fairfax City has good schools.
>
> 3. **Are there any bad areas of Fairfax that I
> should stay away from?**
>
Hybla Valley, Reston, Herndon, Baileys X Roads, and Centreville (unless you want your child to grow up and committing mass murder, wandering out roads to be turned into road pizza, or otherwise as intelligent as Cheech and Chong).

> 4. I know traffic is bad but does it typically
> flow a certain way at certain times (i.e.: toward
> DC in the mornings and away from DC in the
> evenings...)?
>
The only good time for traffic in Fairfax is between 3:15 am and 3:45 am. And only on 123 south of University Mall. Otherwise, welcome to traffic hell.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 01:14PM by Pinhead the Cenobite.

last summer my pops and I were headed fishing at maybe 4:00 am on a Sunday morning... The radio was on very low untill we heard the traffic report coming on. We both stopped talking and turned up the report... AT 4:00 on a Sunday MORNING!

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> last summer my pops and I were headed fishing at
> maybe 4:00 am on a Sunday morning... The radio
> was on very low untill we heard the traffic report
> coming on. We both stopped talking and turned up
> the report... AT 4:00 on a Sunday MORNING!


If by pops you meant transvestite hooker and by fishing you meant looking for a place to pull over so you could give him head, I might have beleived that story.

yeah, fishing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JBass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > last summer my pops and I were headed fishing
> at
> > maybe 4:00 am on a Sunday morning... The radio
> > was on very low untill we heard the traffic
> report
> > coming on. We both stopped talking and turned
> up
> > the report... AT 4:00 on a Sunday MORNING!
>
>
> If by pops you meant transvestite hooker and by
> fishing you meant looking for a place to pull over
> so you could give him head, I might have beleived
> that story.

Interesting.

You know....rod and reel.

get it?



-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Centreville is not a bad area. It's an average suburban enclave, and a (relatively) affordable place to start out, especially in a townhouse. For what it's worth, it does have a heavy Korean population.

If you're staying for a while, you might consider renting until you feel comfortable with the area.

Three words:

Westfield High School

Thus, endeth the lesson.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

This is great information, thank you! We will definitely rent for a while but I want to start out in a good area so the kiddos won't have to uproot again. I plan on going to GMU so I am thinking that City of Fairfax might be our best bet. The traffic worries me a bit. I also want to be somewhat close to a metro station so that we can take advantage of that as well.

I have never been to Fairfax so I am trying to glean as much information about living there as I can online before we move. I'm coming from a small town in the NW so it will be quite a change.

If you move to Fairfax City you will never have to worry about running out of food.

There is a grocery store for every 10 people.

If you're moving to Fairfax for a job because you're a diehard lib voter who ruined the place you're from by insisting on voting for socialist, anti-business, pro-union politicans, please stay where you are. We don't need any more leftwingers coming here to make Fairfax even worse. It's already getting overrun with refugees from no-jobs, union-shop states who still insist on voting leftwing.

Look into country club estates off of 123. older homes, but family friendly neighborhood. Also you can walk to university mall shopping center (not a mall, but a shopping center). Look into neighborhoods that feed into Woodson High, not Fairfax HS. You don't want yournkids at Lanier Middle.

trust me, rent a place first to get an idea of traffic,your commute and what your willing to put up with. this area has changed, the traffic is a serious bitch.
the cost of living is sick, and so is the rent.

"If you're moving to Fairfax for a job because you're a diehard lib voter who ruined the place you're from by insisting on voting for socialist, anti-business, pro-union politicans, please stay where you are. We don't need any more leftwingers coming here to make Fairfax even worse. It's already getting overrun with refugees from no-jobs, union-shop states who still insist on voting leftwing."


Um wow. Did you get that by the fact that I have a family, are concerned about education, or is it because I am from a small town? lol I am good for the community, rest assured. ;)

@Butchsays

I have heard that Woodson is better than FHS but I have also heard good things about Lanier... Why don't you like Lanier?

Mim Wrote:
I am good for the community, rest assured. ;)

You could be good for the community by not moving here. You'll just be adding another car to our congested roads and put more strain on our local gov. services.

Lots of good advice here already. Let me just add my two cents:

1. I see a lot of condos/townhouses on the mls. Are condos/townhouses considered to be typical housing for families (where I am from most people live in single family houses)?
ANSWER: Either single-family homes or townhouses. Usually, townhouses are thought of as kind of starter homes, but with, typically, 3 bedrooms and 2 baths on the upper level, dining room, kitchen, family room, and powder room on the main level, and a basement (that may be finished) on the lower level, there's plenty of space. Don't do condos. You don't get the bang for your buck, and they're not really set up for families.


2. How are the schools?
ANSWER: Overall, very good. It'll vary, of course. One tip: If you decide to live outside the city itself, on one side (toward Fairfax Station and Burke) the feeders go into Robinson--a secondary school (intermediate and high school--grades 7-12). It's a huge school, but actually, overall, a very good one. On the other side of Fairfax, there's Woodson High School--also good.

3. **Are there any bad areas of Fairfax that I should stay away from?**
ANSWER: Some are mentioned above. But there really aren't many if you're looking within, say, 10 miles of Fairfax City.

4. I know traffic is bad but does it typically flow a certain way at certain times (i.e.: toward DC in the mornings and away from DC in the evenings...)?
ANSWER: Excellent question. Yes, still (generally) traffic flows into D.C. in the morning and out in the evening. However, there's a lot of cross-county traffic--commuting to and from Tyson's Corner, for instance. You'll also find that a lot of the traffic congestion isn't linked to the commuting patterns, but rather to all the construction going on. (HOT--high occupancy traffic--lanes on the Beltway, Metro construction, and so on.) So you really have almost roadblocks around the Beltway, especially at the intersection of I-66.

A few other thoughts based on your follow-up comments:

If you want to be close to Metro, take a look at the area between Fairfax and Vienna. That'll be close to George Mason, but keep you close to the Vienna Metro as well. Another option if you want to get into D.C. is to find a place relatively near a VRE (commuter rail) line. For that, take a look in Burke and along Braddock Road.

Finally, Fairfax City is pretty small. There's a bunch of residential housing (nice area) near University Drive and Lee Highway. But there are plenty of areas in the County (such as Country Club Estates, that Butchysays suggested) that are nice and very, very conveniently located.

Hope that helps.

Mim,

You say that you "plan on going to GMU". Since you have kids, I'll assume that you are going to graduate or law school there. Mason has 3 major campuses: Fairfax, Manassas, and the law center in Arlington. I would think your choice should probably be influenced at least in part by where you will spend most of your time.

Will you be in school full or part-time? If full-time, you should start focusing now on making sure your signficant other makes enough money to pay for your living expenses. Even if you become a TA, you won't earn anything near what you'll need to live here. Buying a house would clearly be out of the quesiton, unless you are independently wealthy -- in which case why worry. You probably shouldn't be thinking about buying anyway, because you don't know where your future lies. Say, for example, you're getting a PhD in Economics. When you finally finish your oral defense, that tenure track teaching job you want might be in Texas or Indiana. Any one school doesn't have that much churn in faculty, so you'll most likely re-locate. Why be stuck with a house to sell, even if it doesn't take very long to sell one here.

How old are your kids? If little Skippy and Hoppy are elementary school age, uprooting them is pretty easy. If Junior is a sullen sophmore, you'll have to look more carefully for a good match. You must not be from RoVA (Rest of Virginia, as opposed to NoVA, Northern Virginia), because you would know about the reputation of NoVA schools. Truth be told, Fairfax County's public school system, FCPS, is very, very good, though not quite as good as county officials and realtors would have you believe. It skates on its reputation a bit. In my view, Arlington County Public Schools is every bit the equal of Fairfax. My view here is based on my having gone to and graduated from FCPS, my kids are currently in the FCPS system, and I have worked for Arlington.

The City of Fairfax is independent of Fairfax County (Virginia is unique in how this works), but the schools are run by the County. The city of Falls Church, on the other hand, is also independent of the surrounding counties (Fairfax and Arlington), but runs its own 1900 student system. Falls Church is roughly equidistant between the Fairfax and Arlington campuses, so you might just end up there.

Academically, as you know, a school's quality is really determined by its service territory and the effectiveness of its Principal. Parents in this area are well-educated (highest percentage of Bachelors degrees in the nation) and demanding. The quality of the schools reflect that, which attracts teaching talent. But this isn't Heaven; it isn't even Iowa. Most of the teachers and administrators are good, dedicated folks; but you'll always find pockets of incompetence protected by indifferent bureaucracy. You'll be happy with the overall quality of your kids' education anywhere in Fairfax or Arlington, but depending on their needs, you may have to be proactive in assuring they are getting it.

The region is highly diverse, with demographics ranging from kids on subsidized breakfasts and lunches to kids on subsidized payments for their Cadillac Escalades. There are ethnic enclaves here, as in any big city, including WASP in McLean/Langley/Great Falls. You may like this, you may not. You may be a member of one of them. You are the best determinant for what is a "bad" area. If you ask a question like that on a forum like this, the responses will vary from the silly to the considered to the down right bigoted. Come here, talk to your peers at Mason, and decide yourself. This is hardly an armed camp, but crime happens everywhere.

What you should really do first is check with Mason's Office of Off Campus Housing. They have staff and resources just for people like you. Their website is http://och.gmu.edu. (I don't work for Mason but another institution of higher education in the DC area).

I've been in your very situation. Kids are malleable. It's an adventure. Good luck in your studies.


Oh yea, one more thing. What everyone says about the traffic...it's all true.

One other possible consideration...if you have kids with special needs, it's important to find out if the school you are considering is receptive or hostile to these kind of kids. This can be a function of the principal, especially in elementary school.

I predict a massive migration away from this area within the next 2 years. I say businesses will be leaving, and so will the sane minded people. If you are going to GMU for grad school and you'll be surprised to find out that most of their graduate programs are now out of the Arlington campus (And that is a metro commute that comes out of your pockets. $50 bucks a week) GMU is a fine school, but as the saying goes, GMU what?

Moreover, unless you are currently cleared at the TS/SCI level, good luck findng any type of good job (if you dont believe me, check the job boards!) All the good ones are already filled by drones that have no choice but to live a menial, very boring life as they are NOT getting raises, and the cost of living here is stupidly ridiculous. Most of the neighbors you will meet are 'holier than thou' types and may or may not even give you a nod when you say hello. And dont forget, you will be in a super competitive area that is run by military contractors....and guess what....unless you are active military, good luck demonstrating any skills you may have. I hope delievring pizza is your thing, in your BMW.

I suspect that unless you are super rich, you will be suffering for the first 2 years as you will not be able to handle the costs of living in this area. You will feel poor and will probably fall into the lower end of the income bracket. Have you considered just staying put? I suggest you consider that.

Other than that, I wish you good luck!

why this area? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I predict a massive migration away from this area
> within the next 2 years. I say businesses will be
> leaving, and so will the sane minded people. If
> you are going to GMU for grad school and you'll be
> surprised to find out that most of their graduate
> programs are now out of the Arlington campus (And
> that is a metro commute that comes out of your
> pockets. $50 bucks a week) GMU is a fine school,
> but as the saying goes, GMU what?
>
> Moreover, unless you are currently cleared at the
> TS/SCI level, good luck findng any type of good
> job (if you dont believe me, check the job
> boards!) All the good ones are already filled by
> drones that have no choice but to live a menial,
> very boring life as they are NOT getting raises,
> and the cost of living here is stupidly
> ridiculous. Most of the neighbors you will meet
> are 'holier than thou' types and may or may not
> even give you a nod when you say hello. And dont
> forget, you will be in a super competitive area
> that is run by military contractors....and guess
> what....unless you are active military, good luck
> demonstrating any skills you may have. I hope
> delievring pizza is your thing, in your BMW.
>
> I suspect that unless you are super rich, you will
> be suffering for the first 2 years as you will not
> be able to handle the costs of living in this
> area. You will feel poor and will probably fall
> into the lower end of the income bracket. Have you
> considered just staying put? I suggest you
> consider that.
>
> Other than that, I wish you good luck!


I can relate. well put.

If you dont plan on working and just want to live on the dole then send an email to BOS Bulova and inquire about section 8 housing. They are now occupying luxury condos that would cost $2,000 a month if you had to pay out of your own pocket.

I am actually changing careers and will be finishing up the final year of my degree at GMU in Fairfax. My husband has a very good job and is being transferred to DC so moving is not really a choice but I appreciate the warning. I also appreciate all of the local advice that I have received on this board. It is interesting to get the insider perspective on a place before arriving.

Someone said there is a saying "GMU what?" and I am afraid that I do not understand the meaning of this statement. It seems to be a respectable school, is this not the case?

go ahead and move, you were warned. see you in traffic.

Mim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Someone said there is a saying "GMU what?" and I
> am afraid that I do not understand the meaning of
> this statement. It seems to be a respectable
> school, is this not the case?


Well Mim,

Please do not get me wrong. GMU is a fine school. I know this first hand, as the 80,000 dollars I am currently paying off for 2 individual degrees (graduate level) dictates. GMU, what? well you'll have to figure that out on your own. By the way you are writing, it seems as though you are finishing your BA degree. Out here that is like having a glorified high school dipolma. You will not get considered for many jobs. I hope you have great interpersonal skills and can handle a multi-line phone system.

Now as for your ole man....good luck. If my job transfered me to Fairfax, VA....I would probably start looking for new employment as i would see that as a demotion. (And I hope he is a faithful man, riding the metro around here can change his outlook....lets just say that every smokin hot blonde holds clerance around here, and they are usually smokin hot)

Now I am not a native (thank god for that) of this area, however, my kids are. I will NOT be sending them to Fairfax HS or Woodson! I want them to experience what I did in an awesome west coast 'valley' school. Being here for 15 years has really sucked, but really the thing that has kept me here is $$$ and the fact that I invested in over inflated property. I hope you like paying $2-3000 per month in rent for a single family home that isnt run down or owned by degenerates (slum lords.)

And yes it is true that section 8 lowlifes are living in luxury apartments. You will not qualify for any 'affordable' housing. Now get prepared to hold your bowels, but you will get taxed out the wazoo here! Military or not. Personal property taxes on everything from boats, cars, land, houses...whatever. You even get taxed a meal tax when you eat out. Thats right, there is sales tax, and then an additional tax on top of that. The City of Fairfax, is expensive, the tax rate is higher than in good ole Fairfax County. Politics plays rule here...so unless you know lots of people, are a douchebag, liar, or shady politian, do not expect much in assistance from others. That is just the way it is.

Now dont misconstrue my text as anything else less than an unbiased opinion. I have lived in many US cities, and by far this has been the most interesting and depressing. I personally like parts of this area, my kids have wonderful lives out here. And that is the most important.

You have been warned! And like the other dude said....see you in traffic.

" riding the metro around here can change his outlook....lets just say that every smokin hot blonde holds clerance around here, and they are usually smokin hot) "

Have you lost your fucking mind? the woman around here think they are 10"s..when in fact they are L.A or N.Y.C 2's at best.

dreaming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " riding the metro around here can change his
> outlook....lets just say that every smokin hot
> blonde holds clerance around here, and they are
> usually smokin hot) "
>
> Have you lost your fucking mind? the woman around
> here think they are 10"s..when in fact they are
> L.A or N.Y.C 2's at best.


@Dreaming. And most (not all as there are many awesome wives and moms out here) house wives in this area, are 40 (size and age) prudes or complete whores, so....2nd bests look like number 1's. And besides its a hit it and quit it enviornment. But that is something you wouldnt know about...perhaps you need to leave the basement more often.

Now dont forget, the hot ones, you rarely see...and when you do, they have either a mob of kids surrounding them...or a husband near them that would inflict serious damag to your wigger ass.

A few additions to the above advice....
I'd avoid the Robinson, Lake Braddock and South County school districts. Unless your kids are already in high school. Those are all secondary schools, students from 7th grade to 12th, so your 12 year old will be going to school with 18/19 yr olds, and all the rather adult things that that brings with it. The schools are all excellent, but I wouldn't send my kid to any of them. And I went to one.

If you're in Fairfax city, be aware that they have their own sales tax, so a trip to the store can be several percentage points higher in cost. I think it's a 9% rate, while outside the city is 4.5%, grocery food is less.


Traffic is awful, but then, it always has been. You get used to it.

I'd stay away from the Route 1 corridor.

The comments about Westfields is about the heavy drug problems they've had, but there are drugs at every high school everywhere.

Most families are in single family or townhouses, condos are not the norm.


I agree about sacrificing things to live closer to work. IT IS WORTH THE SACRIFICE! Less property is not a bad thing, especially if you aren't into spending all weekend working on your yard.

Good luck!

f u g a z i Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dreaming Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > " riding the metro around here can change his
> > outlook....lets just say that every smokin hot
> > blonde holds clerance around here, and they are
> > usually smokin hot) "
> >
> > Have you lost your fucking mind? the woman
> around
> > here think they are 10"s..when in fact they are
> > L.A or N.Y.C 2's at best.
>
>
> @Dreaming. And most (not all as there are many
> awesome wives and moms out here) house wives in
> this area, are 40 (size and age) prudes or
> complete whores, so....2nd bests look like number
> 1's. And besides its a hit it and quit it
> enviornment. But that is something you wouldnt
> know about...perhaps you need to leave the
> basement more often.
>
> Now dont forget, the hot ones, you rarely
> see...and when you do, they have either a mob of
> kids surrounding them...or a husband near them
> that would inflict serious damag to your wigger
> ass.


nigga please.

to O.P.: just curious - where are you coming from?

Thank you to all of you who thoughtfully and kindly answered my questions about Fairfax. It is greatly appreciated.

To the rest of you... there is no need to be condescending and mean. If you are not happy with your life in Fairfax then move. It is as simple as that.

Seattle.

culture shock..big time..good luck, people here are assholes.

. I see a lot of condos/townhouses on the mls. Are condos/townhouses considered to be typical housing for families (where I am from most people live in single family houses)?
yes they are typicals so art apartments everything is overprice
2. How are the schools?
over rated. they are not as good as I thought they would be
3. **Are there any bad areas of Fairfax that I should stay away from?**
Mount Vernon
4. I know traffic is bad but does it typically flow a certain way at certain times (i.e.: toward DC in the mornings and away from DC in the evenings...)?

sucks

There are a few who have commented that the schools aren't as great as you may have heard. All I can say is, while there is always room for improvement, they are miles ahead of many many other school districts. The key is not thinking that the school is going to teach your kid everything they need to know. No school does.

For housing or great neighbors, 3220 Old Lee Highway. Location, location, location.

i love

3220 Old Lee Highway. Location, location, location.

I moved here from seattle as well, back when grunge was cool. Also you know the OP gotta be stupid, for asking questions on this board.....lol.

But really, the best place in the county for a nice family is right there on Hummer Road and Lil River! Thats the spot! Awesome place to live and raise a family. Americana Drive is the great as well, thats where Im suggesting my family from Washington to look at....

location location location.

Also what about right outside of Ft. Belvior! or maybe on Frontier Drive, thats where the 'oil' is located....awesome land and properties.

Oh and Mim, your condesending remarks are not welcome. And please pay your taxes when you move here. None of that 6-12 months of unregistered vehicles...your neighbors will report you to the bad boys in DTA, and they will come tax your ass.

Welcome to Fairfax...and BTW, you have no right to speak yet, you dont even live around here....so go back to drinking some starbucks and sniffing your methane out of crystal flute!

Shadow- our school system is only a 7 on the Great Schools rating list, despite what realtors will tell you, and you really should not be comparing them to other systems that "aren't good", in terms of affluence, our schools should be ALOT better, when you compare demographics and other factors we suck and if you take the time to ask why- here it is-because we have the fed govt and military, who not only don't make a contribution to make this a community and also because most people are concentrating on thier (joke) careers, and don't advocate or care for better schools. They have the conformist military and govt culture where they just take what they are given without question and thats why our schools suck, objectively.

Shadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few additions to the above advice....
> I'd avoid the Robinson, Lake Braddock and South
> County school districts. Unless your kids are
> already in high school. Those are all secondary
> schools, students from 7th grade to 12th, so your
> 12 year old will be going to school with 18/19 yr
> olds, and all the rather adult things that that
> brings with it.

I have to respectfully disagree about the secondary schools. I thought that Robinson would be intimidating to a rising 7th grader, but it wasn't. They have done a really good job, in my opinion, of transitioning elementary school kids in a non-threatening way. And we were very impressed with the caliber of the teachers. The administration, however, not so much. But that's probably true anywhere.

A few other comments based on some ensuing questions and comments.

A lot of the school quality depends on the individual administrators and teachers. And while Fairfax County may be overrated, its schools are still very good. Someone commented about what to do if you child has special needs. In that case, check out the individual school very, very closely. (Personal experience: The late and lamented/unlamented Clifton Elementary was terrible. Robinson was fantastic.) Point is: It can vary. Check it out.

Same if you think your child qualifies as "gifted/talented" or you're interested in schools offering IP/AP programs or diplomas.

Where is your husband going to be working? If he's going to be in D.C., it'd probably make sense to look closer to D.C.--along Braddock Road close to Northern Virginia Community College, or perhaps North Springfield. Or, if you can afford it, close to Falls Church. (West Falls Church, in particular.) Your commute will be a bit rougher to GMU (Fairfax), though still manageable, and his will be a lot easier into D.C. If he's going to be based in the Tyson's area . . . God help him. The traffic around there is hideous. Maybe a bit less so if you live in Vienna or (again) West Falls Church.

And, as you can see, some folks here tend to be a bit blunt in their opinions. Just accept it. Maybe even learn to enjoy it.

Hope that helps.

"Those are all secondary schools, students from 7th grade to 12th, so your 12 year old will be going to school with 18/19 yr olds, and all the rather adult things that that brings with it. The schools are all excellent, but I wouldn't send my kid to any of them. And I went to one."

I went to Hayfield Secondary and the Intermediate and High Schools were totally separate except for the front lobby and had differing start/end times. In 8th grade, we never saw the high school students except perhaps outside or on the other side of the gym during PE. Class schedules, buses, cafeterias, locker/shower rooms, and libraries were separate. When I went back for 11th and 12th after being overseas, we never saw the Intermediate side. Don't know about the other secondaries, but 12 year olds at Hayfield Sec did NOT go to school with 18/19 year olds.