One of the DUI checkpoints will be in the Mount Vernon District tonight.

I'll guess Richmond Highway near the intersection of Dawn Drive. Usually some where on RT1.

I have inside information from a guy that volunteers on the citizens DUI patrol it will be near the old multi plex

Thanks for passing on the information. I do, however, have a few simple questions:

1. If someone is driving while intoxicated this evening and uses your friendly tip to avoid authorities and then proceeds to kill someone with his/her vehicle, does this make you complicit in the crime as a conspirator?

2. If a subsequent investigation leads detectives to this site, will the servers contain data sufficient to identify you (ie, log data, originating IP address, cellular tower triagulation, MAC, etc.) to further an indictment?

3. Could anyone using this information be similarly investigated?

4. If there is no finding of criminality, would you or the users of this information be liable for injuries to others through civil remedy?

Don't know if you (or anyone) can answer this. Just curious.

Bud Hoal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for passing on the information. I do,
> however, have a few simple questions:
>
> 1. If someone is driving while intoxicated this
> evening and uses your friendly tip to avoid
> authorities and then proceeds to kill someone with
> his/her vehicle, does this make you complicit in
> the crime as a conspirator?
>
> 2. If a subsequent investigation leads detectives
> to this site, will the servers contain data
> sufficient to identify you (ie, log data,
> originating IP address, cellular tower
> triagulation, MAC, etc.) to further an
> indictment?
>
> 3. Could anyone using this information be
> similarly investigated?
>
> 4. If there is no finding of criminality, would
> you or the users of this information be liable for
> injuries to others through civil remedy?
>
> Don't know if you (or anyone) can answer this.
> Just curious.


Good call...hope the posters of these type of threads, themselves, are victims of drunk drivers. I wonder if after they are lying in hospital bed, paralyzed from the waist down, lucky to be alive, if they will run to FFXU to "warn" other possible killers of how to avoid checkpoints designed to save lives?

A Minor Threat

There was a checkpoint earlier on Fair Lakes blvd right after the left exit out of Fair Lakes Shopping Ctr (WalMart/Best Buy) at 10:45 PM. I turned around because they were taking so fucking long and they didn't even try to stop me. I was not intoxicated anyway, just wanted to get home.

10:45pm seems a bit early, but it is never a bad time to have a DUI checkpoint outside of Wal-Mart.

Bud Hoal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for passing on the information. I do,
> however, have a few simple questions:
>
> 1. If someone is driving while intoxicated this
> evening and uses your friendly tip to avoid
> authorities and then proceeds to kill someone with
> his/her vehicle, does this make you complicit in
> the crime as a conspirator?
>
> 2. If a subsequent investigation leads detectives
> to this site, will the servers contain data
> sufficient to identify you (ie, log data,
> originating IP address, cellular tower
> triagulation, MAC, etc.) to further an
> indictment?
>
> 3. Could anyone using this information be
> similarly investigated?
>
> 4. If there is no finding of criminality, would
> you or the users of this information be liable for
> injuries to others through civil remedy?
>
> Don't know if you (or anyone) can answer this.
> Just curious.


Oh jeeze. One of this morons pops up in every thread of this nature. You do realize the DUI checkpoints are publicized beforehand, by the police departments, on purpose, right? Don't know if you can answer this. Just curious.

Swami,

To answer your question, yes, I do realize the potential deterrent of a properly, well-publicized sobriety checkpoint; more so on 31 December! However, depending on the intent of the operation, not all checkpoints are announced to the public. My question was with regard to the latter and the potential criminal and/or civil implications therein as well as the investigative effort that might be involved.

Bud

I must have heard a thousand public service announcements about the cops being out on New Years Eve to catch drunk drivers. So using that logic the media should be charged criminally as well for giving out a warning.

The citizens DUI patrol has been posted on here around this time for years and I have yet to see one shred of evidence they exist. They are as real as midgets in midgetville. Get it?

But the midgets in midgetville are real. I've driven through their little round-a-bout village.

houses yes but midgets no

Bud Hoal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for passing on the information. I do,
> however, have a few simple questions:
>
> 1. If someone is driving while intoxicated this
> evening and uses your friendly tip to avoid
> authorities and then proceeds to kill someone with
> his/her vehicle, does this make you complicit in
> the crime as a conspirator?
>
> 2. If a subsequent investigation leads detectives
> to this site, will the servers contain data
> sufficient to identify you (ie, log data,
> originating IP address, cellular tower
> triagulation, MAC, etc.) to further an
> indictment?
>
> 3. Could anyone using this information be
> similarly investigated?
>
> 4. If there is no finding of criminality, would
> you or the users of this information be liable for
> injuries to others through civil remedy?
>
> Don't know if you (or anyone) can answer this.
> Just curious.

Just a guess but simply stating there is one shouldnt lead to any criminal penalty.

However if it does come up that they avoided the checkpoint from being warned by this thread there could potentially be civil liability since the standard of guilt is much lower in those cases if the poster can be identified

blackjack joe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I must have heard a thousand public service
> announcements about the cops being out on New
> Years Eve to catch drunk drivers. So using that
> logic the media should be charged criminally as
> well for giving out a warning.
>
> The citizens DUI patrol has been posted on here
> around this time for years and I have yet to see
> one shred of evidence they exist. They are as real
> as midgets in midgetville. Get it?


Theres a difference though between saying the cops are out looking for drunk drivers and posting the exact location so thats not really the same thing. Either way its not really enough for anything criminal to come from it

Bud Hoal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for passing on the information. I do,
> however, have a few simple questions:
>
> 1. If someone is driving while intoxicated this
> evening and uses your friendly tip to avoid
> authorities and then proceeds to kill someone with
> his/her vehicle, does this make you complicit in
> the crime as a conspirator?
>
> 2. If a subsequent investigation leads detectives
> to this site, will the servers contain data
> sufficient to identify you (ie, log data,
> originating IP address, cellular tower
> triagulation, MAC, etc.) to further an
> indictment?
>
> 3. Could anyone using this information be
> similarly investigated?
>
> 4. If there is no finding of criminality, would
> you or the users of this information be liable for
> injuries to others through civil remedy?
>
> Don't know if you (or anyone) can answer this.
> Just curious.


It's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Also, basic common sense that Americans are allowed to discuss what they see, even if it involves the police,

I was out late and didnt see any checkpoints in Fairfax along the Parkway. Anyone else in other areas?

Nino Greasemanelli Wrote:



>
> It's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

No its not. Freedom of speech doesnt mean you can say whatever you want. As I said theyre be no criminal penalty but you can absolutely make the case for civil if someone says they learned about the check point so they didnt go home their normal way and crashed into someone

So everyone that flashes their lights to warn of speed traps is liable if the other drivers take a detour and continue speeding then wreck into someone?

The police claim it is illegal to flash your lights to warn other drivers to slow down, but the charges are almost always dropped by the judge. Fairfax County has even tried to claim that blinking your lights was illegal under the prohibition on police impersonators using strobe lights. The tickets were dismissed.

It's a huge waste of Fairfax county taxpayer dollars to have a roadblock and then not make a big public display of it. The point of roadblocks is DETER drunk driving, NOT catch every drunk driver.

Even the NTHSA and Virginia own Chief's Bulletin and Directive on DUI Checkpoints says the checkpoints should be "AGGRESSIVELY PUBLICIZED."

After all, the point is to eliminate drunk driving, not have drunk drivers get on the roads and then try to catch them. Well, with exception of MADD, that has the sole purpose of inflicting as much pain on drunk drivers and their families as payback. That's why you will never see MADD sponsoring any free taxi programs or preventative programs.

Clay W Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a huge waste of Fairfax county taxpayer
> dollars to have a roadblock and then not make a
> big public display of it. The point of roadblocks
> is DETER drunk driving, NOT catch every drunk
> driver.
>
> Even the NTHSA and Virginia own Chief's Bulletin
> and Directive on DUI Checkpoints says the
> checkpoints should be "AGGRESSIVELY PUBLICIZED."
>
> After all, the point is to eliminate drunk
> driving, not have drunk drivers get on the roads
> and then try to catch them. Well, with exception
> of MADD, that has the sole purpose of inflicting
> as much pain on drunk drivers and their families
> as payback. That's why you will never see MADD
> sponsoring any free taxi programs or preventative
> programs.


There is a lot of truth to that. However it is most effective when the majority of them are highly advertised, but still have the occasional surprise one. That keeps people guessing and unsure of whether or not they will happen. If every single one is always listed they are easy to avoid for people who want to take the chance. For most people the uncertainty alone is enough to make them not drink and drive. But yes the most effective way to actually catch them is to let the officers have their normal patrols

With cellphones, twitter alerts and text messages roadblocks are virtually impossible to surprise the hardcore drinkers. There are number of underground twitter feeds that, for the most part, accurately report most of the FFX county roadblocks with in minutes of being setup. The problem is the roadblocks must remain in the same spot for a couple of hours.

There's also Trapster and mobile apps that offer DWI roadblocks alerts. Not to mention that everybody at nearby bars are easily alerted to road blocks by bartenders and other patrons. I've heard people talking about roadblocks on the complete opposite end of the county.

This a poor example http://www.duiblock.com/dui_checkpoint_locations/virginia/ If you google good you can find the good alert sites and twitter feeds.

It makes sense to advertise certain DUI checkpoints at key points and then surround that point with a number of other covert patrol units to catch the drunks trying to skirt the obvious ones. With a bit of planning, you could probably funnel a large number of criminals (hey, that's what they are) to a key area and make quite a score.

Bud Hoal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It makes sense to advertise certain DUI
> checkpoints at key points and then surround that
> point with a number of other covert patrol units
> to catch the drunks trying to skirt the obvious
> ones. With a bit of planning, you could probably
> funnel a large number of criminals (hey, that's
> what they are) to a key area and make quite a
> score.

There are very strict laws and VA cases that prevent patrols from pulling over people turning or "evanding" near roadblocks.


Bass v. Commonwealth, 29 Va. 20 (2000)
a) evasion alone is not a basis for suspicion or stop
b) driver going through gas station 500 feet from roadblock to change direction was not sufficient for stop.

Bud Hoal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It makes sense to advertise certain DUI
> checkpoints at key points and then surround that
> point with a number of other covert patrol units
> to catch the drunks trying to skirt the obvious
> ones. With a bit of planning, you could probably
> funnel a large number of criminals (hey, that's
> what they are) to a key area and make quite a
> score.

More cases preventing this type of police behavior. Of with a good DUI lawyer most cases will walk away from DUI roadblocks. They are not very effective in court cases. I better stop is have video from a police car and field sobriety field test on video to confirm the reason for the stop.

Legal driving maneuvers that reverse a driver's course toward a checkpoint do not justify a stop, Bass v. Commonwealth, 525 S.E.2d 921 (Va. 2000). See also, Murphy v. Commonwealth, 384 S.E. 2d 125 (Va. App. 1989). Certain avoidance maneuvers do justify a stop, Commonwealth v. Eaves, 408 S.E. 2d 925 (Va. App. 1991); Stroud v. Commonwealth, 370 S.E. 2d 721 (Va. App. 1988); Brown v. Commonwealth, 440 S.E, 2d 619 (Va. App. 1994).

You can also not target a high drug area or demographic and use the roadblock as side reason for a point of enforcement. Roadblocks are suppose to target high volume, high DWI enforcement problem areas.

If a cop wants to pull you over it wont be hard to rind a reason. Driving too fast, too slow impeding traffic, turning without a signal or even for some crap hanging from your rear view mirror.

You can also not target illegal alien areas just because you think they drink more.

Lee vs VA Commonwealth, 2181993

Roadblocks can not be based on a discriminatory effect IE. Trying to arrest a certain gang group or illegal aliens.

I am not sure but I didnt see any press releases from FCPD about any roadblocks New Years Eve. Usually such programs are reported the next day with complete stats