My husband and I both work, but one of us may need to quit if we can qualify to live here. This is a disgusting abuse of our tax payer money!

http://www.wmal.com/Article.asp?id=2225336

Would someone who is the recipient of luxury subsidized housing please respond. I know that you are out there. I would like to hear your defense, especially after hearing the cries from those who are distraught over their inability to live as comfortably. Yes I will wait until noon when you wake up to hear your response.

Again this is sharon bull dykes fault. Remember to vote her the duck out

I'd like to see what this looks like after a year.
Attachments:

I am all for living comfortably however, why the need for "luxury living" on section 8 housing?

This kind of handout, simply enables the process to be prolonged, if it ever ends at all...

Herrity, please work with the FFX BOS and end this madness!

Not saying it needs to be another "Arna Valley" (Google it...) however, section 8 living should be modest and spartan, at best, encouraging folks to want to move on!

Wow...

To date, this is the most infuriating thing I have read on this site yet.

vote the bitch out
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/chairman/news/affordable.htm

Debate Develops Over 'Luxury Subsidized Housing' in Fairfax County
Supervisor Pat Herrity speaks out against the amenities he says some residents in subsidized housing are getting that average tax-paying citizens can't afford.
By Rachael Dickson
10:15am
http://chantilly.patch.com/articles/debate-develops-over-luxury-subsidized-housing-in-fairfax-county

A furor has broken out among Fairfax County elected officials and housing advocates over what one supervisor calls “subsidized luxury housing.”

Springfield Supervisor Pat Herrity has been behind much of the push to look at the money spent by the county on rent and condo fees for subsidized housing units, which Fairfax County Board of Supervisors Chairman Sharon Bulova has defended as part of a “critical strategy” meant to integrate subsidized homes into the community and disperse them across the county.

A study released by the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy on Monday looked at three of the buildings termed “subsidized luxury housing” by author Michael Thompson, President of the Thomas Jefferson Institute.



Millions in Condo Fees


Thompson said he looked at three specific property areas managed by the Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD) through Fairfax County Public Housing (PH) and Fairfax County Rental Program (FCRP). HCD manages approximately 3,624 housing units with over 7,281 beds, including efficiency apartments, multi-bedroom apartments, townhouses, single family homes and mobile home pad sites, within 75 properties.

Residents in these programs must be between a certain income level for the size of their household and also must live or work in Fairfax County. Residents pay a minimum rent or 30 percent of their household income, whichever is greater, for subsidized housing.

Thompson looked at Stockwell Manor in Falls Church, Bryson at Woodland Park in Herndon, and Halstead at the Metro (near the Dunn-Loring Metro station), all of which have subsidized units within it. He stated in his study that some of the subsidized housing in Fairfax County is sold for about 16 percent of the cost of the “normal units” in the development they exist in.

For example, Stockwell Manor is a community of townhouses where homes are valued from $850,000 to more than $1 million. The affordable housing units are priced at $145,000.

“Although a little smaller than the ‘big homes’ and with less expensive interiors, these ‘affordable homes’ in high priced neighborhoods are not an incentive for the subsidized homeowner to ever move out,” Thompson states in his study at one point.

Herrity recently asked the Office of Financial and Program Audit to look at the condo fees and property values HCD pays each year. A preliminary report presented at the quarterly meeting of the Financial and Program Audit Committee on Tuesday stated that the county spent $1.47 million on condo and HOA fees for subsidized housing in condominiums in the fiscal year 2010. The county will pay even more on these fees in fiscal year 2011, as the report noted that the fees paid through May 2011 were $1.485 million. These condo fees are paid through a variety of funds, with 80 percent coming from the General Fund, the report said.

The report states that these condo fees range in cost from $41 a month ($490 a year) to $567 a month ($6,800 a year). The average payment per unit is $208 a month, or $2,500 a year. These fees cover maintenance costs, utility cost sharing and the provision and use of common areas such as pools, exercise rooms and playgrounds.

“I don’t think your average person at a PTA meeting would want their money to pay for amenities they don’t have themselves,” Thompson said, particularly emphasizing buildings with subsidized housing that include swimming pools and gyms.

Herrity brought up three main concerns with the money spent on the subsidized condos in a press conference on Tuesday.

“The investment in these units could be so much better used to serve so many more people,” Herrity stated. “We’re providing housing better than the majority of our tax-paying citizens have.”



‘A Disincentive to Move Out’


Herrity also expressed concern that the program would actually discourage people from finding ways to get out of subsidized housing.

“It’s really not helping people get back on their feet,” Herrity said. It’s providing a disincentive to move out.”

Herrity emphasized that fixes to the current Housing Authority program needed to be put into place soon, before the large amount of development planned Tyson’s Corner gets under way.

Those who defend the program say that it’s important to have subsidized housing scattered throughout the county.

“A critical strategy for providing affordable housing alternatives to residents is that these houses are integrated into the community and dispersed across Fairfax County,” Bulova said in a statement released Tuesday. “Doing so prevents the creation of pockets of poverty.”

The report from Office of Financial & Program Audit said that the practice of “encouraging a balanced distribution of affordable housing throughout the county” has been largely pursued in the last 30 years by purchasing condo units.

Bulova’s statements acknowledged that monthly fees paid for subsidized units go toward basic services and shared amenities such as swimming pools, stating that 15 of the 41 condominium developments in which the county owns affordable units have swimming pools for their tenants.

“Fairfax County cannot and will not ask private companies to treat tenants differently based on income,” the statement continued. “If a child in an affordable unit wants to use the swimming pool with his neighbors, he should be allowed to. We also will not as private companies to waive such fees and interfere with their ability to be successful. Fairfax County will also not tell these private companies which amenities they can provide in an open competitive market.”



Housing Advocates Respond


A mix of affordable housing advocates at the Fairfax County Government Center Tuesday expressed irritation at the closed nature of the press conference Herrity held, which was between Herrity, Thompson, members of Herrity’s staff and three reporters and was in a closed room. They said that it was difficult to respond to Herrity’s allegations when they did not know what they were but spoke generally on the subject.

“We all like mixed-income communities,” said Al Smuzynski, who’s been working in affordable housing issues for 35 years. “In Fairfax County, we build good quality housing that is attractive and energy efficient.”

Smuzynski also disagreed with Herrity’s assertion that there was no incentive for residents of subsidized housing in condos to move out.

“On most affordable housing programs, when you earn more money, you pay more rent,” Smuzynski said. “As [residents] pay more and more, they’re likely to leave.”

He also pointed out that when residents make more than a certain income, they are required to leave subsidized housing.



Possible Solutions


Thompson offered two suggestions in his study to fix the issue, suggesting that the government instead give money to Habitat for Humanity to build homes, or otherwise, think creatively for new solutions. One possibility he brought up was making foreclosed homes into subsidized housing, which would keep property values in the neighborhood from going down while providing the family a place to live.

“There are things you can do creatively to give deserving people a place to stay while benefiting the community,” Thompson said.

Thompson could not give any examples of jurisdictions that currently have such a “foster home” policy, as he termed it.

It's HOA fees, those costs are part of them just like trash pickup and landscaping.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To date, this is the most infuriating thing I have
> read on this site yet.


Just looks like decent housing to me. The children who grow up in these homes will be helped the most. Decent housing like this can help break the cycle of government dependancy. This is an outstanding investement and the bargin of a lifetime for us taxpayers in the longrun.

Think of Robin. He was a poor boy, and he got to live a life of luxury as a child, and it made him a better adult.

Ok, let's assume that premise of distributing subsidized housing in various areas is sound. Just becuase that is the case doesn't mean the FX County needs to buy in subdivisions or condo complexes that provide all these stellar amenities that result in in higher HOA fees.

All that being said why is their such a plethora of FX subsidized housing on the Rt. 1 corridor. If I'm not mistaken, there is a higher concentration of such housing there than any other location in Fx County.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To date, this is the most infuriating thing I have
> read on this site yet.


It sure as hell ranks up there.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KADr2KG5aso

When I lived in Alexandria I have personally seen the brand new section 8 destroyed within a year. Screens are torn off the windows, trash tossed to wherever it lands. Junked cars all over the parking lots and police sirens all day and all night.

Someone had the bright idea if you give them a nice luxury townhome they would appreciate it. Well no it doesnt work that way. The section 8 was mixed in with regular townhomes where the owners had to pony up $600,000 or more to live next to this trash. No surprise you could spot the section 8 homes because on each side the homes had for sale signs.

there is no incentive to ever leave if the liberal democrats hand out these kind of homes to the lazy and riff raff. They know if they go to work they will have to start paying rent and probably be moved to a small apartment rather than a nice taxpayer funded townhome.

“If a child in an affordable unit wants to use the swimming pool with his neighbors, he should be allowed to."

It is this kind of statement by liberals that makes my ears bleed. They think it is all about deserving and nothing to do with earning something. How about the taxpaying famiies that cannot afford pool fees in communities where pools are an additional cost. they tighten their belts while this trash "deserves" to have pool privleges.

Question: Does the county provide section 8 housing in single family dwellings? I think I can spot them without even asking. We have rental properties and the renters don't care who they rent to or if they tear up the place. I have a feeling the taxpayer pays for the repairs.

In my community there is a section of townhouses that are extremely nice. What blows me away, is the fact that I thought you qualified based on the "low" income that one brings into the household. Well it must not, because you should see the vehicles that are parked in the drive ways!!!!!! BMWs, high-end SUVs, etc......It makes me sick because there is definitely something wrong with this picture! The Section 8 program has gone off the tracks and obviously no one is checking up on these so call qualified people.

Does it ever stop?
All the landlords are concerned about is the "guarantee" income for their rental property!
There was a Section 8 individual in our community who I ended up having removed! I constantly called the landlord and advised that we were sick and tired of the prostitution and drug selling that was going on all hours of the night. The police were contacted and surveillance was established, before the individual got busted, the landlord finally had the individual removed.

Parent in FX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does it ever stop?
> All the landlords are concerned about is the
> "guarantee" income for their rental property!
> There was a Section 8 individual in our community
> who I ended up having removed! I constantly
> called the landlord and advised that we were sick
> and tired of the prostitution and drug selling
> that was going on all hours of the night. The
> police were contacted and surveillance was
> established, before the individual got busted, the
> landlord finally had the individual removed.


Why didnt you try to help those people? Hateful attitudes like yours are the reason lots of folks grew up to be section 8. People like you ARE the problem.

look longterm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Parent in FX Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Does it ever stop?
> > All the landlords are concerned about is the
> > "guarantee" income for their rental property!
> > There was a Section 8 individual in our
> community
> > who I ended up having removed! I constantly
> > called the landlord and advised that we were
> sick
> > and tired of the prostitution and drug selling
> > that was going on all hours of the night. The
> > police were contacted and surveillance was
> > established, before the individual got busted,
> the
> > landlord finally had the individual removed.
>
>
> Why didnt you try to help those people? Hateful
> attitudes like yours are the reason lots of folks
> grew up to be section 8. People like you ARE the
> problem.


Help? What kind of "help" do you have in mind? Give them
free beer and whiskey? I have a friend who owns a single
family home with an apartment bldg. next door with plenty
of Section 8's and his gripe is that they won't watch their
kids because they're too fucked up on alcohol and drugs.
Their kids run through his yard at all times of the day and
night in order to save a few feet to a roadway. He put up a
fence but they just climbed over it. They also steal everything
that isn't nailed down or locked up. Even took his garden hose.
He's afraid to get into a confrontation with them because they
might become violent or come back later and set his house on
fire. When the cops do go to the apt. bldg. over something the
kids have done their parents either aren't home or are too trashed
to communicate. Let'em move to DC. They like Section 8's there.

look longterm ()
I DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bought food because the individual had a young child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I along with a few neighbors watched over the child BECAUSE the individual would be passed out on the couch and the child outside alone, AND many times had not had anything to EAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Talked until I was BLUE in the face about the individual's drug and drinking problem and how it was being supported!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even would repeatedly say what a wonderful person the individual was when straight and not trashed!!!!!!!!!! Which was true~~~~~~AND that I would help in any way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What extremely short time the individual had a job, EVEN drove the individual to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't EVER accuse me or anyone else that speaks out about what they finally had to do in order to PROTECT their own child, neighborhood; and saving their investment after working 35+ years, WHILE saving the individual's child, having a Hateful Attitude AND that I or anyone else is the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I/WE are NOT the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The problem, "most" DO NOT want to do anything to improve their lifestyle!!!!!!!!! WHY should they when PEOPLE like myself/ourselves are SUPPORTING them with MY/OUR taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another thing, I have been in Fairfax County 67+ years, family members 240+ years, SO do you think I enjoy seeing how individual's live off the hard work my family and self have put into this county?
WE have ALWAYS lend a helping hand to ANYONE and will continue to do so until it's time to ensure that the problem does not effect the children, homes; and community!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you are a Section 8 recipient, what HAVE you done for yourself in order to stop living off ME/US?
Maybe YOU are part of the problem with YOUR attitude!
What a pisser~

Where is all the money for this coming from? The feds?

I had a friend that was unlucky enough to live next to a section 8 home. It at one time was a nice single family dwelling but not after the former DC residents make a wreck of it. Loud music, fights, cops there day and night and tons of kids who were out of control. He called the landlord over and over with zero results.

He finally had a lawyer draw up a letter threatning legal action I think the term was loss of quietude and enjoyment of ones home.

It was only a a month later the problem was gone.You have to hit these slumlords where they hurt and that is in the pocketbook. Section 8 guarantees them an income so they dont care what the tenants do. Threaten legal action and see if they dont come around.

Parent in FX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> look longterm ()
> I
> DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!
> Bought food because the individual had a young
> child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I along with a few neighbors watched over the
> child BECAUSE the individual would be passed out
> on the couch and the child outside alone, AND many
> times had not had anything to
> EAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!
> Talked until I was BLUE in the face about the
> individual's drug and drinking problem and how it
> was being
> supported!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Even would repeatedly say what a wonderful person
> the individual was when straight and not
> trashed!!!!!!!!!! Which was true~~~~~~AND that I
> would help in any
> way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> What extremely short time the individual had a
> job, EVEN drove the individual to
> work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Don't EVER accuse me or anyone else that speaks
> out about what they finally had to do in order to
> PROTECT their own child, neighborhood; and saving
> their investment after working 35+ years, WHILE
> saving the individual's child, having a Hateful
> Attitude AND that I or anyone else is the
> problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I/WE are NOT the
> problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!
> The problem, "most" DO NOT want to do anything to
> improve their lifestyle!!!!!!!!! WHY should they
> when PEOPLE like myself/ourselves are SUPPORTING
> them with MY/OUR
> taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Another thing, I have been in Fairfax County 67+
> years, family members 240+ years, SO do you think
> I enjoy seeing how individual's live off the hard
> work my family and self have put into this
> county?
> WE have ALWAYS lend a helping hand to ANYONE and
> will continue to do so until it's time to ensure
> that the problem does not effect the children,
> homes; and
> community!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> If you are a Section 8 recipient, what HAVE you
> done for yourself in order to stop living off
> ME/US?
> Maybe YOU are part of the problem with YOUR
> attitude!
> What a pisser~


That sounds like enabling not helping. At this point its clear that you have no clue what Im talking about. Im guessing you are a republican.

Why does it appear that Pat Herrity is the only one taking this on? What about the other supervisors? What about the Chairman? I would think they should all be on the same team with this issue and start the fight.

Plus, I wonder how many people who live in Section 8 housing have undocumented income? I'm sure there's plenty of cabbies who are not reporting all their tips, etc. Including this income would probably push them out of Section 8 housing.

Why Just Herrity? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does it appear that Pat Herrity is the only
> one taking this on? What about the other
> supervisors? What about the Chairman? I would
> think they should all be on the same team with
> this issue and start the fight.
>
> Plus, I wonder how many people who live in Section
> 8 housing have undocumented income? I'm sure
> there's plenty of cabbies who are not reporting
> all their tips, etc. Including this income would
> probably push them out of Section 8 housing.


Herrity is one of the few (R) names on the county BOS. I would not count on Bulova (D) to help lead anything. In fact, toting the party line on many issues, the Democratic Party makes up 70% or the BOS in Fairfax.

Tax and spend (D)'s, been this way since the late 80s w/ Hanley, Connolly, etc.

The county grew under Jack Herrity's leadership. However, since then? Not so much... Unless you count growth by the amount of spending on wasteful handouts, programs, and subsidies.

The old expression comes to mind when thinking of this "luxury" section 8 housing - Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Teach section 8 folks how to better their lives, not take away from those who pay into the system so much!

CC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My husband and I both work, but one of us may need
> to quit if we can qualify to live here. This is a
> disgusting abuse of our tax payer money!
>
> http://www.wmal.com/Article.asp?id=2225336


I would like to thank all you "do-gooders" for holdin a job that pays taxes. I appreciate the $480 I get a month to feed me and whoever may swing by. The steaks, chicken, shrimp and anyything else that looks good. As well as the fast food when I get the munchies after I get done blazzin a blunt. Yea, I make plenty of $, could defenetly afford all that food myself. The government don't know bout my funds tho', never will. You whites owe us for what you've done to our ancestors and we'll take it however its handed out. You expect me to go and get a job makin $10 an hour for you white people to take a third of it for taxes. Hell nah! You must be on somethin better than what I'm smokin. Guess what I'm eatin for dinner tonight...a $17 grilled steak, (grilled on a $800 grill that ur white kids help pay for with their addiction) wit a1 sauce, onions and mushrooms, baked potato with butter, sour cream and chives, and I haven't decided what else is gonna be on the plate. Some sort of veggie. So keep on bitchin bout how us niggas are spendin ur money. Ain't anything gonna change. Write ur congressman, governor, hell you cvould even wrtite the president but he a nigga too, so he got our back. Gotta go tho', taco bell is callin my name.

^^^^
thats a lie. They dont have steaks on the grill they go to TGIF and have them plus a few shots of Grey Goose, then walk out on the check. No tip either honky capitalist

look longterm ()
NO not a republican.

Now answer my question:
If you are a Section 8 recipient, what HAVE you done for yourself in order to stop living off ME/US?

I am very clear as to what you were saying, trying to "help" someone (and most importantly for the sake of their OWN young child) get off their "back" as a job along with dealing drugs while using them and following up with a 6-pack+, is not enabling.
OH! wait you just might be right, I was enabling, because as poster UnderTheTable stated, to you helping would have been "Giving free beer and whiskey"~~

What I am clear about, YOU are part of the problem with YOUR attitude!

Something should be done about the terrible conditions the section 8 housing is in.
Attachments:

section8 is great
The disrespectful mentality you have for yourself is not shared by all of your nigga bros. Many of us would rather have self-respect, dignity; and work than not for a living. No one, white and non, owes us a damn thing because of our ancestors. I will agree that our ancestors are owed but they are no longer among us. We owe it to ourselves to take advantage of what is available in order to improve ourselves and the future of our people. You are a bro that we don't even want to acknowledge as one us. You are a bro that most find disgusting. Don't fool yourself about our President, he has an education and chose not to live off of welfare as you, he does not have your back or the bros like you.

Parent in FX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> look longterm ()
> NO not a republican.
>
> Now answer my question:
> If you are a Section 8 recipient, what HAVE you
> done for yourself in order to stop living off
> ME/US?
>
> I am very clear as to what you were saying, trying
> to "help" someone (and most importantly for the
> sake of their OWN young child) get off their
> "back" as a job along with dealing drugs while
> using them and following up with a 6-pack+, is not
> enabling.
> OH! wait you just might be right, I was enabling,
> because as poster UnderTheTable stated, to you
> helping would have been "Giving free beer and
> whiskey"~~
>
> What I am clear about, YOU are part of the problem
> with YOUR attitude!


Not a section 8, Im an upper middle class middle age white guy with a big house and 3 nice cars. I do what I can for others and I respect others for the hand they were dealt and how they played their cards. Its called plain human decency.

The hand someone is dealt can be harsh but that is not the case here. These are luxury units and they should not live so much better than the persons paying the bills. Fate can sometimes be harsh but having three kids with three different dads is not fate. Laying around waiting for a job to come to you instead of taking what is out there is also not fate.

sorry but you have it wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The hand someone is dealt can be harsh but that is
> not the case here. These are luxury units and they
> should not live so much better than the persons
> paying the bills. Fate can sometimes be harsh but
> having three kids with three different dads is not
> fate. Laying around waiting for a job to come to
> you instead of taking what is out there is also
> not fate.


That is exactly why these people need help. You have to start when they are very young before they learn the bad habits. I have seen it work.
No you cant save the whole world in one day but you can do something to help.

Parent in FX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my community there is a section of townhouses
> that are extremely nice. What blows me away, is
> the fact that I thought you qualified based on the
> "low" income that one brings into the household.
> Well it must not, because you should see the
> vehicles that are parked in the drive ways!!!!!!
> BMWs, high-end SUVs, etc......It makes me sick
> because there is definitely something wrong with
> this picture! The Section 8 program has gone off
> the tracks and obviously no one is checking up on
> these so call qualified people.



Guess you dont know that "my cousins cousin nephew little cousin" let them borrow the car. What a friggin joke. its amazing how people play the system.

"That is exactly why these people need help."

Help? I am pretty sure they already know what causes babies. How much more help can I give them on that subject. If a person wants to live off the sweat of others than they should accept whatever housing is available not be quartered in a luxury townhome. What lessson is learned from that except how to game the system.

Its okay, Everyone has a role to play in life, yours is hate and mine is help.
I wish you the best of luck.

You are finally right. I do hate. I hate to see my tax dollars spent on luxyry townhomes for people who claim life dealt them a bad hand and do nothing to improve their lot in life. Section 8 was never meant to be a lifelong program for people. Just a hand up during bad times. Yet we see generation after generation in public housing. When do they get off their asses and start taking responsiblity?
You are an enabler. You provide ready excuses for the lazy and shiftless to excuse their bad habits and blame it on life instead.

"Not a section 8, Im an upper middle class middle age white guy with a big house and 3 nice cars. I do what I can for others and I respect others for the hand they were dealt and how they played their cards. Its called plain human decency."

Then take your own money instead of mine. Better yet, throw that money down the sewer, because we will only have more of them. Have some compassion for decent people who have to live next to this. You obviously don't.

look longterm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its okay, Everyone has a role to play in life,
> yours is hate and mine is help.
> I wish you the best of luck.

Well kudos to you, but don't expect everyone else to follow in suit. this is AMERICA where people should be able to make their own choices. if the government didn't tax and spend us so hard, maybe we'd be more inclined to donate to private charities that help the poor.

It's also a side effect of subsidizing home purchases through government policies to foster home ownership. It's driven up the cost of rentals as well as homes because of the surge of condo conversions towards the end of the bubble. Prices wouldn't be so out-of-whack if not for continually relaxing government-set lending standards over the years

look longterm ()
Date: July 04, 2011 10:45AM
Everyone has a role to play in life, yours is hate and mine is help.
And how are you helping?
What makes you think that others don't help but just hate?
What part don't you understand and that's not clear to you, that the taxpayers don't mind "helping" as long as others help themselves?
How do you get "hate" out of the taxpayers getting tired of others riding they coat-tails on a long-term basis?
Why is it okay for Section 8 to be a long-term solution for an individual in lieu of a temporary haven while an individual moves forward to improve their situation?

Im an upper middle class middle age white guy with a big house and 3 nice cars. I do what I can for others and I respect others for the hand they were dealt and how they played their cards. Its called plain human decency.
How does your status, race and materialism help others that are not as fortunate as yourself?
What makes you think that your "respect" is not shared by others?
How do you considered "plain human decency" is not what Section 8, welfare, food stamps, etc..is and the fact that our taxes are used for this "human decency", along with free-will contributions to fundraisers, shelters, extra back to school supplies, etc.....?
How can you come to the conclusion that "plain human decency" is not what I along with others are all about?

What makes you think that others out here don't care, don't help; and most importantly, don't have compassion for others that are not as fortunate as most of us including yourself?
What, we don't care because we don't believe that "luxury" housing, food stamps, etc....on a long-term basis is okay while many taxpayers are struggling to meet their "own" obligations without asking for a free ride much less any type of help?

This started with Lyndon Johnson's Great Society and War on Poverty. 45 years later and all the money spent, is it better or worse?

Some people on here don't know how to punctuate.

Parent in FX, give it a rest you are being trolled and you are falling for it like a ton of bricks.

DO NOT READ THIS PILE OF INCOHERENT THOUGHT AND RANTING - skip to the next post.

I typed it, so I am going to post it...just because I am too selfish to just hit delete.


This may, or may not, be on topic...

Regardless of:

- the merits of any program (Section 8) being the one at hand
- which political party is making decisions
- what county / area the programs are instituted

I always wonder why the Emergency Services / Police / Fire etc...seem to be the FIRST mentioned when making some sort of budgetary cuts? While programs, such as Section 8, and the many others are still being fed $$ - not to even go into the idea of "luxury", which is mind blowing.

IMO - Emergency Services / Police / Fire being the most funded would make sense...people who PAY their share of taxes would have something that actually benefits their community and themselves, basically seeing their $$ being put to a legitimate program.

Now, "How would that help the lower income, or Section 8" ??? - well, there would be MORE police presence to shut down the people who abuse the Section 8 benefits, like many posted above of the drug dealing and prostitution. With the abusers of the system being weeded out, the people actually trying for a better life have a chance and place, to live that does not inherently advertise crime on a day to day basis to the youth. Also, the increase in police would benefit the area (County/State) in general. I am liberal in most of my opinions, but would have no problem creating a "police state" in very bad areas - Section 8 areas becoming a haven for crime would constitute an issued "police state" in that area. Harsh, yes, but I really would love to see this country have some balls and just hammer down on known areas of crime. Why not just let the law enforcement actually enFORCE some peace in our country? It has always amazed me that someone has time to film a documentary about an area of crime / gang activity, even interview police and detectives that have worked in that area for years, but still not come up with solutions to the problems being documented.

This is becoming a RANT - fuck it - I have lived in ghettos to country club communities --- there are good and bad people in both. I have played golf with millionaires and rode in a car with a crack-whore while friends were trying to buy some drugs. In other words - I have seen most things from both sides...

I watch a show on a certain gang-area - literally pointing out a 5 block radius that includes 18th Street - 22nd Street, this area has been gang-controlled for X number of years - STOP HERE - Gang-controlled??? Fuck this shit...(assuming we have used funds to create a GREAT police / SWAT etc.. force) - have them go in and shut the whole area down, take in ANYONE with gang affiliation or extensive violent records, coup them all up and process each. Important - the police STAY in the 5 block area and create a "police state" - like the guy in Phiily did (I think?) - bulldoze down the whole area - then, anyone who is actually trying to live a decent life gets placed in a, temporary and reasonable, Section 8 community, not "luxury". The money of the slum-lords will be seized and used to build reasonable housing for those to return to, and for others eligible, to move to knowing it is now safe and there is a chance for people to live in peace. For those in custody, NO JAIL as we know it - they will spend YEARS in the most simple of "jail" settings while becoming a WORK FORCE for the law abiding public. "Chain-gangs", I guess, would be the description - these Chain-gangs would constantly be working on anything the public may need --- road crews, teach them the basics and put them to work paving roads - cleaning areas of trash (Especially the areas that they previously were "in control" of) - landscaping for HOAs - trash collection - ANY building project (basically replacing day-laborers with FREE laborers) - yes, have a station where construction companies can go to get XX number of felons to do simple work at construction sites - anyway we can think of that would create a better environment, put them to work cleaning rivers and lakes etc.. - Yes, this equates to a type of slavery, but why house/feed/medical etc..these people when we could USE them to do so so many simple things that would help each and every community.

Obviously, I do not have a PLAN, or am knowledgeable enough to suggest an actual template for this system to run under...but I just think we should not stop at taking a criminals right to live among society away, but also ADD that they now become a WORK FORCE for the country / state / county...not making fucking license plates - lets be more progressive - start allowing companies (Nike as an example) to get FREE labor from convicts, not pay someone 16 cents an hour in whatever country, ANY company - may use the labor force of convicts (Starting with community projects first) --- not some 2 hour shift picking up garbage on the side of the road - full work days on farms, federal/state/county construction --- as some convicts actually take to the idea of living a crime free life, they can graduate into programs, teaching, leading others that want to take advantage of whatever benefits can be gained by doing the right things...actual rehabilitation.

Fuck - I do not know - FFXU could probably point out a dozen "areas" to institute a "police state" just here in the NOVA area. These areas are just invaded by whatever police force is necessary, and then double that force, and take over the area - STAY there and literally create a border - no one in or out without going through a check-point - arrest EVERYONE with a warrant (How many thousands of criminals are running around with warrants?), or is known as a criminal - have a judicial system that is mobile (Basically, a mobile courtroom of just the necessary people) no fucking trials for OBVIOUS shit - guilty on the spot, INTO the LABOR FORCE immediately.

AUTOMATICALLY into LABOR FORCE:

- gang affiliation of ANY kind
- selling of ANY illegal substance EVER
(I am Pro-Legal Marijuana, another topic)
- ANY violent crimes EVER
- ANY sexual crimes EVER
- ANY gun / armed related crime EVER
- ANY child-support violations EVER
(If you are on the government-dime already, and have another child, AUTOMATICALLY in the LABOR FORCE - male or female)

------

I know - this all sounds crazy and would never work --- but how can we create such a HUGE complicated system to enable hundreds of thousand of people to live off the work of others and NOT be able to create a system to just stomp the fuck out of all the KNOWN areas of gang / high crime and a system to USE criminals to do something positive instead of just paying for them to live in jails?

Fuck-it --- any criminal that refuses, have a GIANT jail, only guarded on the OUTSIDE, and throw them in there - no guards, no rules, just let them kill each other off - if they are so tough they will make it in ANY system...basically, drop food/medical/clothes with a helicopter and let whomever takes over the GIANT jail rule it --- they have to decide how to regulate the supplies, rid of the dead bodies ---- I mean WTF, as I type this pile of shit, there is an interview of a "Teen-Pimp" on TV - really, lets advertise the behavior more, go Maury etc... 16 and Pregnant, or whatever fucking mind-numbing shows are created to promote ignorance in the youth. And why the fuck is Tyra' on my TV? Station changed...actually TV off.

-----

A liberal-minded person is creating this mound of worthless words here...

From the top government agencies down to your local elected officials, what a cluster-fuck of hypocrisy and red-tape to the point that getting a pot-hole out front of your house filled will somehow cost $5000 and be a fight down party-lines...WTF! Where has ANY common sense gone - Section 8 "luxury" - huh? $700 hammers - $3 million on a study to find out why onions make people eye's water and we can not BUILD a POLICE FORCE that can actually rule the streets?

Yes, I would love to HELP people, yes there are cases of mental problems that would need to be addressed, yes it is not so simple to just go in and clean out EVERY crime area, yes this sounds like (insert freedom restricting government system here), yes it SOUNDS similar to the jail system in current use, yes it is just an idealistic way to view things --- but, fuck it all, it is time for a good old-fashioned "round-up" country wide - take all the able bodied and able minded OUT of our current jail system and put them to work, they say NO, into the GIANT jail-of-death --- think that choice will not deter crime?

OK - everyone understand? If you do, WOW, I do not even have an idea of what the hell I am talking about anymore. I did not even read the above link about "luxury" section 8 bull-shit - I do not vote (See no reason to be active in a completely broken two-party system) - I am Pro Human Rights...why the fuck can we not use some common sense and address / plan / stop our criminal society instead of promote it, or why settle for corralling all the crime just out of view of the rich, but among the middle-class? ----

OK - the three things I have learned by typing this RANT of nothingness ---

1. I do not really have any legitimate ideas on how to solve, or help, our countries accepted level of criminal society

2. I do not know enough about our current government system to offer any concrete insight on what is needed to change many of our communities failings

3. I should NEVER watch daytime talk shows ever again.

Harrity brings this kind of tripe up so he can look "conservative" in financial matters. All he does is bring up more work for people who have to study everything, over and over again.
Some section 8 housing is in communities with HOA and condo fees?
So?

Why not do something proactive like getting some developers to put in some money towards roads, just like they do in that liberal bastions of Utah and Nevada? Where were people like Harrity when we were all being raped by the developers who could not build an overpass for Fair Lakes off the Parkway or better traffic patterns throughout the Chantilly area? Oh, yeah... TELLING us all how unamerican it was for us to CHOOSE to raise our OWN taxes. (Local control over local issues is such a f-ing liberal issue, huh?)

Oh, and anyone seen the proffers these wealthy a$$-wipes get out of all of our hides? Talk about corporate welfare!!! No developer has ever offered to build more low-income housing then need, nor provide these house the same standards as others in the community.

What was left off Harrity's rants? Oh, let see... the house with the amenities probably has one less floor than other houses in the community or are within 200 feet of railroad or highway noise, or maybe they simply are the LAST units built, usually from the dregs of the building materials. Don't think that happens? Look it up! Developers make $%itloads brokering with the county over section 8. We get HOSED. Then, instead of going after the real issue over developments (roads, schools, proffers), Pat Harrity decides to screw the people even more.

Check out the brochure on ADUs: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/rha/adu082010.pdf

^^^
Obama class warfare speak, I bet the feds have a job waiting for you in the department of wealth redistribtion. Stop hating those better off than you.

section8 is great Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My husband and I both work, but one of us may
> need
> > to quit if we can qualify to live here. This is
> a
> > disgusting abuse of our tax payer money!
> >
> > http://www.wmal.com/Article.asp?id=2225336
>
>
> I would like to thank all you "do-gooders" for
> holdin a job that pays taxes. I appreciate the
> $480 I get a month to feed me and whoever may
> swing by. The steaks, chicken, shrimp and
> anyything else that looks good. As well as the
> fast food when I get the munchies after I get done
> blazzin a blunt. Yea, I make plenty of $, could
> defenetly afford all that food myself. The
> government don't know bout my funds tho', never
> will. You whites owe us for what you've done to
> our ancestors and we'll take it however its handed
> out. You expect me to go and get a job makin $10
> an hour for you white people to take a third of it
> for taxes. Hell nah! You must be on somethin
> better than what I'm smokin. Guess what I'm eatin
> for dinner tonight...a $17 grilled steak, (grilled
> on a $800 grill that ur white kids help pay for
> with their addiction) wit a1 sauce, onions and
> mushrooms, baked potato with butter, sour cream
> and chives, and I haven't decided what else is
> gonna be on the plate. Some sort of veggie. So
> keep on bitchin bout how us niggas are spendin ur
> money. Ain't anything gonna change. Write ur
> congressman, governor, hell you cvould even wrtite
> the president but he a nigga too, so he got our
> back. Gotta go tho', taco bell is callin my name.


There is nothing wrong with what you do, Its no different than the rich white folks taking tax deductions that they shouldent be. Like the white folks that buy a mansion in Middleburg and call it a "farm".

Another article on this,
http://www.wmal.com/Article.asp?id=2225336

Vote Bulova OUT!!!!!

Check out these photos

Herrity: Fairfax County is spending unneccessary resources on luxury condo fees
Board of Supervisors votes unanimously to review payment of condo and homeowners association fees
by Kali Schumitz, Staff Writer
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/article/20110715/NEWS/707159810/1117/1117/herrity-fairfax-county-is-spending-unneccessary-resources-on-luxury&template=fairfaxTimes

The Fairfax County Board of Supervisors plans to review the county’s payments of condo and homeowners association fees for county-owned subsidized housing units.

On a unanimous vote Tuesday, the board agreed to refer the matter to the board’s Housing Committee for future discussion.

Supervisor Pat Herrity (R-Springfield) argues the county is throwing money away on condo fees for communities that offer luxury amenities, such as pools and workout rooms.

This subject gained traction earlier this month after the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy published a report citing one condo association fee of $6,800 per year. Some Republican candidates for office, as well as sitting elected officials, have seized on the issue.

“Quality does not have to mean luxury, and our taxpayers are paying for luxury while people in need wait for resources to be available,” Herrity said.

Supervisor Catherine Hudgins (D-Hunter Mill), who is the chairwoman of the Housing Committee, said she is willing to look into the issue but is concerned about some of the implications of the rhetoric.

“I think it is an insult [to people using the program] … to imply that the housing that is being provided is too good for them,” Hudgins said. “It’s a good thing to live in a place that actually looks nice. I don’t think we should apologize for it.”

The property with the $6,800 per year condo fees is an outlier, other supervisors said, noting the county has no control on what the fees are.

According to the county’s second quarter audit report, the county pays about $1.5 million a year in condo fees, ranging from $490 per year to $6,800 per year. The average payment per unit is $2,500 per year, according to the report.

The properties in question are owned by the Fairfax County Redevelopment and Housing Authority and are rented to low-income residents. Developers designate a certain number of affordable units during the development process that are sold below market rate; some of them go into the county’s housing rental program.

“I acknowledge that there are some units in upscale neighborhoods because they are provided by developers as part of the rezoning process,” said Supervisor John Foust (D-Dranesville). “They are smaller, they are finished differently. They are not million-dollar homes.”

However, Supervisor Michael Frey (R-Sully) said, the county’s affordable housing program originally was promoted as something targeted at low-income, first-time homebuyers. The real issue, in his opinion, is that the program has moved away from that model to include more county-owned properties.

“My problem … is that we took a program and turned it into something that doesn’t work,” Frey said. “We turned a first-time homebuyers program into something that it was never intended to be.”

The next Housing Committee meeting date on the board’s calendar is Oct. 4.

Fairfax County needs to get out of the housing business
Friday, Jul. 15, 2011
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/article/20110715/OPINION/707159774/1065/fairfax-county-needs-to-get-out-of-the-housing-business&template=fairfaxTimes

Thank you, Supervisor Pat Herrity (R-Springfield) for calling attention to Fairfax County’s long-running subsidized housing scandal.

In the past 20 years, I have been a homeowner’s association president in a townhouse community and then a resident in a neighborhood of single family units. Both experiences tell me the cost of the county’s housing program far exceeds the many tax dollars the county throws at it. I believe the costs to taxpayers come in many forms.

Subsidized units were almost universally poorly maintained. This suppressed neighbors’ property values. As demand for housing in these neighborhoods was suppressed, the remainder of the aggregate demand competed for neighborhoods without subsidized housing, pushing prices in those neighborhoods up. Markets function no matter what politicians tell you.

Subsidized units also have shown me a tendency to bring criminal and other unwanted behavior to their neighborhoods.

Where did the stabbing take place in my townhouse community? Where did the young men live who were witnessed robbing a neighbor’s vehicle? Who decided they needed two pit bulls then let them run free where they made significant mischief in the neighborhood?

You know the answer. I feel confident the county’s own police records would support my conclusion that subsidized housing has a strong correlation with bad acting. The lower quality of life for neighbors also is a cost. High degrees of police, fire, ambulance and animal control attention would be yet another drain on county resources. Do our insurance bills remain unaffected? I don’t think so.

When the county makes deals with developers allowing increased density for subsidized units, demand on infrastructure increases without commensurate contribution to the tax base. Meanwhile the problems noted above perpetuate.

The county’s subsidized housing comes at a high price to those of us who pay our full mortgage or rent. If the program affects your neighborhood, you are really getting zapped.

I also suspect not all of what the county spends indirectly to support the program is attributed in the public record to subsidized housing. It should anger taxpayers who struggle to educate themselves, earn a good living, and pay full price for their own housing then underwrite similar housing for special neighbors who won’t make the same effort.

And why would the beneficiaries try to earn more than $75,000 per year if it qualifies them for substantial economic gains to stay below it? Yes, $75,000. I know at least one of my subsidized neighbors worked under the table to keep his subsidy.

Why shall we spare so many from living within their means? Why does living in a small apartment seem so abhorrent to the board? Don’t they know that millionaires in Manhattan make do in apartments?

There are really two big sets of questions people ought to ask about this perverse and expensive program.

First, who benefits in general and in specific subsidy situations? What really drives decision making behind these truly sweet but costly deals? Surely the waiting lines are long. Who gets to the front and why? Which landlords and businesses benefit most? Why? How are they selected? Would I be wrong to be concerned this program invites abuse? Has anyone ever looked into this question?

I hope auditors and Herrity can find answers.

Second, how does the Board of Supervisors remain unaccountable for this perverse and expensive program?

I think I know the answer to this one. It seems to me most Fairfax County voters know more about national government and politics than local ones. Too many zombie their way into the polls every November and pull the lever next to the “D.” They never seem to pay attention afterwards to see that their candidates behave much like the most archetypical Republican once they are in office, shoveling subsidies and tax breaks to favored constituencies.

As an Independent, I encourage every voter to note that party affiliations at the local level have little meaning. The good news is you can vote poor performers out again in four years.

The subsidized housing issue shows the Board of Supervisors is overdue for some accountability. This November would be a great time to start cleaning house. Get the county out of the housing business.

Mike McHugh, Reston

I understand the county also subsidizes luxury in the Great Falls area but giving them lower tax values on their homes than the market really dictates

Thank you Mike McHugh. Well written letter to the Fairfax Times and great points. I would like to know if illegal aliens are allowed to take subsidized housing.

"The property with the $6,800 per year condo fees is an outlier, other supervisors said, noting the county has no control on what the fees are."

It's probably not an outlier for Fairfax County's housing program and not that out of the ordinary for county residents in general. The complex next door to me has condo fees in the neighborhood of $400 to $440/mo. It's 40 yrs old and prices are in the range of $150K to $280K. The fees include utilities and access to Reston pools and tennis facilities.

Thank you, city dwellers, for agreeing to house the detritus while we in the country avoid the worst of it. Your giant cesspits, pockmarks upon the face of the nation, are nice to visit on occasion (with concealed carry); I try to avoid sleeping over. Between Amazon.com and higher costs of living, there is really no good reason to visit all that often. Enjoy living next to the savages; after all, it is your raison d'etre to provide for them!

Point well made Mr McHugh. There is no incentive for anyone to ever better themselves when doing so will end their being housed in luxury condos. Section 8 has ceased being a temporary living situation until one moves up in pay and begins to exercise financial responsibility. It has become a lifelong entitlement. Too many have learned how to game the system by working at the high end of eligibility requirements and also being paid off the books to hide the true income.

It is sad indeed that those paying the bills do not live as well as those taking from the system. It has become common place in this country that everyone is entitled to free housing, free medical, free daycare and food stamps. Personal responsiblity has left the room.

And yes illegals do qualify for section 8 housing. The county years ago ceased asking for proof of citizenship.

If this continues we will be like DCs subsidized welfare failure SE which needs genriftication ASAP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-welfare-recipients-some-homeless-to-renovate-apartment-buildings-through-jobs-program/2011/07/18/gIQAbYpDLI_story.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/2011/07/16/gIQAsiilII_story.html

The developer sets up a certain number of units in exchange for receiving loans/guartntees from the federal/state government. The loans to developers are usually funded by issuing municipal bonds to private investors.

The government then collects the rent - which is set at 1/3 of the income of the family who lives there. Sure, the government has to pay the Condo Fees, just like any other landlord would have to.

I think it is a cost effective way for the government to provide housing for some low income people. If you say that low-income housing has to be "cheap" or substandard, then you will again create gettos that breed crime and poverty.

I didn't see anything over the top in the apartments. It's just a modern apartment complex with new fixtures and appliances.

"cost effective way for the government to provide housing for some low income people."

This basically sums it up, bad idea,
http://www.trulia.com/voices/General_Area/Anyone_have_experience_with_renting_out_Section_h-6816

how come no one subsidizes the regular worker who has to move far out to provide a bigger house for his family? Because its a scam.

backDoor2theFuture Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "cost effective way for the government to provide
> housing for some low income people."
>
> This basically sums it up, bad idea,
> http://www.trulia.com/voices/General_Area/Anyone_h
> ave_experience_with_renting_out_Section_h-6816
>
> how come no one subsidizes the regular worker who
> has to move far out to provide a bigger house for
> his family? Because its a scam.


+1 - Teachers, firemen,police all find it extremely difficult to live in Fairfax Co on their salaries, maybe some can but look salaries and then look at cost of housing.

With the average teaching salary at 75k a year for 10 months you cann definitely afford it. Salary doesn't mention benefits like pension and healthcare. Although private salaries are higher you have to reduce them by 20 to 30 percent to account for 401k and les generous healthcare, plus you can't fired because of unions

Teachers are not unionized in Virginia.

Teacher's do have a retirement plan but they have to contribute just like a 401K, in fact many teachers have 401ks in addition to the retirement plan, and teachers have to pay a fairly substantial amount for healthcare.

What kind of a house can you buy in Fairfax Co on $75,000 a year? Not much.

KK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teachers are not unionized in Virginia.
>
> Teacher's do have a retirement plan but they have
> to contribute just like a 401K, in fact many
> teachers have 401ks in addition to the retirement
> plan, and teachers have to pay a fairly
> substantial amount for healthcare.
>

Typical mis-information. Just because Virginia is a right to work state, it doesn't mean that unions do not exist. It only means that union membership cannot be a requirement to hold a job in a unionized place of employment.

VA has locals for both major teachers unions - the AFT and NEA. Membership in not compulsory, and there is no contract with the school systems, but the unions do exist and bargain for their members. The bargaining is more lobbying and public representation than contract negotiations.

As for the VRS contribution, FCPS contributes both the employer and employee portion of VRS, which amounts to 10% of a teacher's salary. Teachers pay zero. There is a Fairfax County supplemental system that teachers can contribute to, the VRS is a complete free ride for FCPS teachers.

On health care, FCPS teacher pay about 25% of the cost of their health care plans. Private sector workers pay more like 50%.

So all of KK's statements are in isolation true, but very misleading. It's like a child contributing his dollar for Mom's birthday present - the child thinks he did a lot, but the grown ups know who really is footing the bill.

Want to know what made my head explode? I worked in Alexandria at one time and there was a small public housing unit nearby. When the residents were not busy breaking into our cars they had a charter bus that would make a stop and pickup residents to go to Atlantic City.
The advertisements were posted on telephone polls. Poor in America my ass.

http://www.thomasjeffersoninst.org/files/3/Subsidized%20Luxury%20in%20Fairfax%20County.pdf

THE JEFFERSON JOURNAL

…a commentary from

THE THOMAS JEFFERSON INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC POLICY

Subsidized Luxury in Fairfax County

By Michael Thompson

Almost everyone who hears the words “affordable housing” has an image in their mind of a nice, clean “starter home” in a middle class neighborhood – a basic, simple home with Formica counter tops, and parking on the street or under an “open garage.” They certainly don’t envision a resort style swimming pool, exercise facility, billiards room or business center with computers, the internet and printers. The basic home they have in mind is made “affordable” through a series of local government programs, many of which include federal funds. And the taxpayers certainly don’t expect their tax money to pay for condo fees of $6800 a year.

That is why the Thomas Jefferson Institute’s recent study, Subsidized Luxury in Fairfax County (www.thomasjeffersoninst.org) is such a blockbuster. And this is why Fairfax County Supervisor Pat Herrity is making such a fuss.

The idea behind “affordable housing” policy is that hard working heads of households and their families can be provided “nice, clean, basic homes” to get a solid start in their careers or re-settled after difficult times. These “affordable homes” are to provide a basic unit where the occupant -- owner or renter -- can reasonably save some money with the goal of moving out of these “subsidized units” into a residence that is totally their own.

But to the Fairfax County Government, “affordable housing” includes upper income communities and amenities far nicer than those enjoyed by most taxpayers who pay the bill. This at the same time when some traditional “affordable units” are infested with bed bugs and roaches. Priorities are clearly misplaced.

There are housing developments in Fairfax County where subsidized homes have sold for about 16% of the cost of the “normal” home in that development. Where there are $860,000 homes, the county has required “similar looking” homes to be built and forced to sell these for only $145,000. What kind of market priced home is there anywhere in the county for $145,000?

Although a little smaller than the “big homes,” and with less expensive interiors, these “affordable homes” in high priced neighborhoods are not an incentive for the subsidized homeowner to ever move out. Why should someone want to better their life in order to buy a “nicer, better, bigger” home in a quiet neighborhood with a good school when the government provides them the opportunity to live in a luxury community or a nice apartment/condominium without having to make much money at all? This can only be described as “subsidized luxury.”

When artificially low prices are put on “affordable homes” in upper middle class communities, the county loses the property taxes that would otherwise flow to the government. And this forces all other homeowners to pay a little more in property taxes to make up for this lost revenue.
There are nice apartments and condominiums in gated communities with granite counter tops, spa-like swimming pools, business centers, tile flooring and stainless steel appliances that are part of the subsidized “affordable housing” in Fairfax County. There is little or no incentive for the occupant to strive for a better home. If the family does too well financially, it may no longer “qualify” for these incredibly nice homes, apartments or condominiums and then have to move to a “lower priced” area – where average Fairfax County residents live.

There are better alternatives to this current distorted county program. For instance, the developers could donate an agreed amount of money to a group such as Habitat for Humanity that builds truly affordable housing.

Another alternative would be to create a program called “Foster Housing” where a family in need could live in a foreclosed house and take care of it and the county pays the “subsidy” to the bank or mortgage holder. The contract between Fairfax County and the family would include the family’s responsibility to take care of the house and the property. The contracts would be for one year at a time and the home could not be sold out from under the family without a 90 day notice. This policy would protect the foreclosed home from damage; enhance the property values in the surrounding area (vacant homes deteriorate all property values rapidly); and the families would be living in more modest, middle class homes as the taxpayers expect.

Responding to our study and Supervisor Herrity’s trumpeting of the issue, the Chairman of Board of Supervisors, Sharon Bulova, tried to defend these luxury housing residences by saying the overall program provides homes for lower income people (she did not respond to the issue at hand which is the three luxury communities in the study), that the alternative would be “pockets of poverty” in Fairfax County for those served by the housing programs (the alternative is not that – the alternative is to use more modest homes and condos in the program), and that the monthly fees pay for grass cutting and snow removal ( again she avoids the issue altogether of our taxpayers paying up to $6800 a year according to the county auditor -- $2100 more than our study found -- for gold-plated amenities like resort grade swimming pools, billiards rooms, office suites with computers and printers, etc ).

There is something basically out-of-whack when Fairfax County officials see nothing wrong when government housing is better than those lived in by the majority of the taxpayers.

-30-

Michael Thompson is Chairman/President of the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy, Virginia’s premier independent public policy foundation. These views are his and do not necessarily reflect those of the Institute or its Board of Directors. He can be reached at info@thomasjeffersoninst.org.

Just bought my first condo.. very excited to move in. Not a VERY high-end complex, but quite nice, well maintained and quiet.... until fighting broke out every single week for the first month, and I took a look at my upstairs neighbors.

Two adults and three children in a one bedroom unit. Neither adult appears to have a job and they do not have cars. They walk through the building screaming at all hours and frequently sit on the front step drinking Four Loco and throwing cigarette butts, popsicle sticks and sunflower seed shells all over my front walkway. They throw their kid's diapers into our trash room without even putting them in a bag. The fights always happen outfront of the building, infront of my bedroom window, where I am often awoken by obscenities and threats being screamed. The kids are usually present for this, sometimes it's directed at them.

The other night (12:45AM on a Thursday), the woman came banging on my front door repeatedly and said "he has a knife and he cut me!". Even though I've lived in some much shadier places in my years, I've never been in this situation. I called 911 (along with another neighbor), cops came, and nothing happened. They didn't even bother to talk to me. I'm assuming there was no actual assault and the woman was just being crazy, because no one was arrested and everything was wrapped up in about 15 minutes. Of course, I was up for like another 2 hours or so, all shaken and uncomfortable.

I contacted our CHOA with a complaint and let them know what has been going on.. they also said someone else complained to them and they were looking into whether these residents are owners are renters. That's the last I heard. I could be completely wrong, but am assuming they are renting, and that they are probably subsidized. I saw a couple of people in this thread mentioning threatening legal action, but I don't really feel like enough is going on (i.e. drug dealing, prostitution) for any real intervention.. Only thought I had is to call CPS for the kids, but not sure that will do much either. It really sucks they have to grow up around this. Any other advice would be appreciated.

I completely understand why spreading low income housing throughout the county is way preferrable to having designated 'ghettos'.. nor do I think that housing should be considered 'too good' for a person, or they should live in squalor because they don't make as much...

But how unfair is it to put people who MAY act/live like this next to people who are busting their ass to pay for their property and keep it nice?? Unfortunately, none of these families have any reason to be concerned about their neighbors, the community or property values. I don't think that apartment renters would like to deal with these kind of neighbors either, but I don't think a community where people own property are appropriate locations... specifically to avoid situations like this.

If they turn out to be section 8 write to Sharon Bulova and let her know how much you appreciate her efforts to move section 8 into luxury units.
At the very least they sound like renters. I had a friend that had the same problem. Dealing with the actaul unit owner got him nowhere.

Finally he had a lawyer draw up a letter threatning legal action for something called the right to peace and quietude. The owner kicked them out within a month.
If they are section 8 you may have more trouble because they have more rights than you as a legal homeowner.

That is precisely why, having lived in Northern Virginia for 25 years, I have lived in so many places renting but have never chosen to buy here. It is a shame that the counties (Fairfax, Loudoun, etc) do not have the backbone to put noise ordinances, littering ordinances, mayhem ordinances etc that are strong enough to reward their coffers--and I am speaking of reasonably large fines--for the efforts of having to dispatch the police and actually having them press the needed charges to be able to collect the fines for all this type of mayhem. Most of the time they now just ignore this "quality of life" stuff; it does not pay them to seriously pursue it. I once lived in a rented room at a group house some years ago in Herndon on a street where there was a 24 hour open-air drug market operating 24/7 day and night, That got set up when a house came on the market next door and was bought by about 13 members of the "Mexican Mafia" who moved in and went into the "drug distributing" business working out of their vehicles 24/7. The police would never come to get them because all the action "was out of private autos in an unlighted access driveway on a private non-public access road" leading into a cul-de-sac off the public road. If you called them, they would say they could not go on private property to check all these things things out. Yet within the next 2 years everyone in that block moved out to get away from the deterioration of the neighborhood. Another 2-bedroom condo townhouse in Ashburn Village in just a couple of years went from 2 adults and one set of 2 babies to a count of 15(+/-) tenants (and still counting) with tenants coming and going daily in shifts, and 2-3 new babies appearing every 9 months with new faces popping in to stay yearly . I used to wonder if they used the sinks as cribs to fit everyone in the condo. They next took over their neighbors assigned parking spaces, their guest places, plus half of the allotted guest parking spaces for their entire block of condos. As the "day shift" leaves for work in the local restaurants on bikes/cars/etc.,, those still left at home with the kids run a day/night child day care operation, so their neighbors,some of who do must often work at home, have to tolerate continuing nuisance racket of balls being bounced against the walls next door all day long and loud booming and banging on the walls and floors, like living in a gym! reverberating far into the night. These "condo roaches" throw their trash-and allow all the children to throw trash-- all over the neighbors yards, in the front parking spaces (theirs and their neighbors) and wherever they loiter around outside in the neighbors lawns, and around the shared HOA areas. They prefer to use their neighbors yards for their daily "beach picnics" with all the kids-(their own 5) plus the rest of the others left for the day care for the day or night. That way they don't get fined for throwing their food/water/cans/snack trash in their own yard, instead their neighbors get fined! Whoever has custody when parents go to work, usually an unemployed day-worker living in the basement, is incompetant to do child care, as most problems start when the parents leave the house and go to work.. Don't child care centers need to be under supervision of certified registered adults instead of whatever day-laborer happens top be home when the parents leave for work? Perhaps a nuisance law is also needed for these types of questionable establishments! Their back yard looks like the county landfill, but they are too proud or ignorant to pick up after either themselves or their children. The HOA comes around once a quarter and fines them, but upon notification they only then pick it up to avoid their fine, then the whole scenario begins again from the beginning. Apparently only a few of them work (all in various local restaurants), but they have numerous expensive cars (6 + cars at last count) several very expensive, so they probably are living here totally at the expense of Uncle Sam's generosity in the form of tax write-offs for the multiplying kids, the cheap jobs, etc.--So wow! who says the business of manufacturing babies does not pay handsomely, especially when living in piles in small spaces to minimize your expenses and alleviate the need for paying taxes while creating s legal citizenship for all your friends (via the growing of ones family like a home-based business, simply by encouraging all ones foreign friends, cousins, etc from the home country to come on up and become part of the "legal???" extended family by having lots of new kids with a bona-fide already in place bona-fide legally documented citizen)? So a once nice neighborhood soon looks like a dump, and it spreads fast, for the nature of dumps is to grow and attract even more rats. So the advice is, before you buy into any enabling community that welcomes overcrowding, ignorance and stupidity at the expense of everyone else s investment in good faith in what once was a very nice community, live there first as a renter and check it out. It is not only the economy that can put a house or condo underwater fast. Neglect and dereliction spreads like a cancer and can accomplish the same thing, and without serious HOA laws and willing citizen reaction against the process and stepped up legal enforcement, not much can turn it around once it starts. Two questions to ask ones self are: how far underwater will you find yourself in 5 to 10 years if you buy into a place (not noticing how it is beginning to decline around you)? How much effort and time are you willing to put into helping turn the disease around in your community? If you don't have that time and energy and awareness to see it happening- move on and keep looking until the better opportunity presents itself!

Damn. I think the wall of text just damaged my eyes.

Condo Leery...great story, but PLEASE use paragraphs...they are your friends...

Here's an idea - set up Section 8 housing in Liberia and ship those monkeys back where they came from!