Last election it was "the gays want to get married" and you gotta come vote to stop it. Now it's "the Democrats want more illegals" and you gotta come vote them out. Honestly, all this has nothing to do with the illegal aliens around here because the developers have bought and sold the Republicans and will never pay to remove the cheap labor pool. It's funny how all this fear mongering pops up right before the election. Yes, illegal immigration is a big problem and no, voting Republican will not stop it. Remember the President's immigration bill that gave amnesty? He's a Republican still I believe.

Wedgie

Uh, I think you are a bit confused. Developers have bought and sold Gerry Connelly, who is most certainly a democrat.

No one is 'afraid' of illegal immigrants, we just don't want to pay to support them in our schools, hospitals, roads.

Of course democrats love illegals, Gerry Connelly said the welcome mat is out for them. If you like that, please continue to support Connelly and the other democrats.

And yes, Bush was dead wrong on this issue. Why? Is he running?

If you are sick of illegals, Vote for Baise, and every other republican.

Oh, I'll agree with you that Connelly is owned by developers and a couple of other industries. Where does Baise's money come from? Is he self-funded and independent or is he beholden to his paymasters like Connelly?

Of all the problems facing ffx right now, Republicans are scapegoating illegals as the wedge issue. They had 6 years controlling the White House and Congress and did they do anything? No! But now, right before an election they raise the issue and we're supposed to believe it? They have no credibility.

Just watch after the election, you won't see more than lip service paid to limiting the benefits of illegals --no matter who wins--.

Don't want to pay to educate kids? Don't want to pay to treat a sick child in the emergency room? We may have priority differences. Are these proud Republican family values?

No one has to scapegoat anyone. Most people feel that their child should have a better chance at going to UVA or Tech than an illegal.

As long as illegals continue to come, and Gerry Connolly keeps Fairfax county as a safe haven, you can BET that illegal immigration will continue to be a big issue.

Neen, totally agree. I would like to see the legal foreign nationals have the same benefits and opportunities as other USA citizens--and I believe they do. I have personally seen the illegals benefit from our generous social benefits to include medical and education. At the expense of the rest of us. I am especially incensed at the number of criminal illegal aliens that overcrowd our jails and prisons, for whom I am paying legal fees, room, board, etc. And consider the billions of dollars sent to the impoverished countries these people have left (to support their families). Something has to be done.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one has to scapegoat anyone. Most people feel
> that their child should have a better chance at
> going to UVA or Tech than an illegal.
>
> As long as illegals continue to come, and Gerry
> Connolly keeps Fairfax county as a safe haven, you
> can BET that illegal immigration will continue to
> be a big issue.

Neen,
I couldnt have said it better myself. This notion of "scapegoating" is no more
than an act of desparation on behalf of the illegal alien lobby. Wedge Issue,
are you one of the contractors who will have to start hiring legal residents
at a fair wage or something? Or, Heaven forbid, provide benefits to your
employees? THE CONMAN HAS TO GO!!!!!!

Wedge you are nearly 100% correct...Republicans must brain storm issues to provoke hate and discontent and then they beat the drums of "war" loud and steady diverting the voting population from their failures. The latest is "illegal" aliens...virtually every study shows illegal aliens add more to our economy then drain it. They do pay sales taxes..they do pay real estate taxes in the form of rent (yes landlords do pass real estate taxes on)..they do pay gas taxes.

This is white America's last gap of fear as they loose control of the political structure of this country as all minorities pass them up as they whine away. Take note most the voacl opponents to illegal aliens are white males. They feel threatened...afraid they cannot compete with hard working, non-English speaking Mexicans.

I hope more sooner then later this country wakes up to this politics of hate!

Are you just as upset over the fact that this country has ore people incarcerated then any other? After all you are paying for them too! What do you want done to the legal Americans amongst them? A high majority of the illegal aliens in prisons are there for illegal drug violations....face it this is our problem not theirs. This country has an unquenchable thirst for mind alterinfg drugs and we have turned a large portion of the South Americans into ourjunkies. And god forbid we legalize drugs!

Wake up...our probelems are casued by us...not illegal immigrants of any kind.

They feel threatened...afraid they cannot compete with hard working, non-English speaking Mexicans.

Pot, it's the kettle calling...you just referred to all the illegals here as "Mexicans"...

Again, paying rent is not paying real estate taxes; it's paying rent.

Vince, I can bet you never owned a thing in your life. You whine at people who seek to protect the value in their homes because they see it dropping when twenty people with twenty five cars move in next door. They are racists if they think eveyone should enter the country legally as the system is set up.

Vince you are the worst kind of liberal and that is the one who is envious of someone elses wealth. You strive to create class warfare because one person chosew to get ahead and life and didnt sit around and wait for government handouts.

I agree that Bush wants to keep the cheap labor from 'illegal' immigrants available to corporations. I've often wondered if there would be some wage differential for amnesty workers or 'seasonal immigrants' under his new program. If they're allowed in under some legal scheme, would they have to be paid minimum wage?

The bottom line however, is that Republican and Democrat are realizing that this issue isn't going away and will only get bigger. It's also crossing party lines. In simplistic terms Republicans want cheap labor, democrats want to mother the world. Either way, I'd say 80% of the public is against it. What you're seeing now is members of both parties waking up to the reality that their party does not have the pulse of America on this issue.

BTW, NAFTA was an attempt to keep the cheap labor in Mexico (and help contain this immigration problem), where US corporations could also take advantage of it's clear legality and weak environmental laws. The whole 'free trade' argument is total bullshit. Anyone who has taken 5 minutes to understand David Ricardo's comparative advantage theory (the basis of free trade arguments) realizes there's one huge flaw. That flaw is that trade can only be free when people (read: human capital) are free to cross boarders (international or otherwise). Free trade works in the United States between states, because people can up and move to California or wherever better paying jobs are. It does not work between the US and Columbia, because moving from one to the other can be difficult or next to impossible. All of these illegal aliens are quite literally the end product of the economy trying to 'fix' this flaw in Ricardo's theory.

Comparative advantage always falls apart when one economy is so poor or so oppressive that their people earn next to nothing for their labor (China anyone?) but the people cannot move freely to the higher paying economy (US) to get work. Oppressive regimes (like China) will always have a comparative advantage over free wealthy nations because their labor is free or nearly free. US corporations want to bring that nearly free labor to the US by outsourcing production there. Buying products from these nations implicitly supports these oppressive regimes.

Likewise, buying products/services produced by illegal aliens who are being paid less than a legal immigrant or resident would be paid also supports this inequality. This of course is the basis for the other bullshit argument: "Americans just won't do this kind of work". Which is true, only because you fuckers are paying $2.50/hr for that job.

I'm an independent, but I'll be voting 100% (R) today. No race-baiting, no excuses, no pity. This shit is toxic to our economy, our public safety, and our standards of living. Bye-bye, Connelly.

TROGDOR...question for you. In your last sentence you talk about how cheaply illegals work for. I assume therefor that you would support "Living Wage" efforts?

Whats the matter Stinkypoo? Cant compete against an undereducated ..non-English speaking illegal immigrant?

Go right ahead and vote Republican.....their solution is eternal war...where we send all our legal citizens overseas to fight for the freedom of those very foreigners you are afraid to compete with.

The fact is state officials can do very little other then divert the mob from the facts and feed them what they want to hear. This has always been a sucessful tactic of corrupt politiicans....just ask Nero who burned Rome!

Vine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TROGDOR...question for you. In your last sentence
> you talk about how cheaply illegals work for. I
> assume therefor that you would support "Living
> Wage" efforts?

I haven't really thought about it to be honest. I'm inclined to believe that government mandated price floors tend to weaken the economy and reduce employment.

Right off the top of my head, I think that without illegal immigration real wages would rise in the economy for everyone. Since people working in fields,janitors, construction workers (now kind a moot point), etc would have to be paid enough to attract workers, other wages would rise to attract or maintain their workers as well. Kind of a trickle-up phenomenon.

Just as a "living wage" artificially increase wages, illegal immigration artificially decreases wages. I would guess that both are bad for the economy in the long run.

Who uses illegal labor? Developers, Retailers, In other word, business. Who is more aligned with business, Republicans or Democrats?

The fact is, neither the Democrats or the Republicans are going to do anything about illegal immigrants. This is especially true at the local level. As for illegals not paying their way...most illegals rent or own, so they are paying property taxes. Most are using fake social security numbers so they are paying money into the social security system that they will never recover.

I'm not trying to defend illegal immigration. But if you think voting for Republicans is going to make this issue go away, you are dead wrong. Don't forget, the largest amnesty program ever for illegals was signed by President Ronald Reagan.

Wedge Issue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Last election it was "the gays want to get
> married" and you gotta come vote to stop it. Now
> it's "the Democrats want more illegals" and you
> gotta come vote them out.

I can already see the new big issue next election cycle: GAY ILLEGAL ALIENS WANT TO GET MARRIED AND STEAL AMERICAN JOBS. GAY CONSTRUCTION WORKERS HARDEST HIT.

Local officials can't make it go away, but they can eliminate the benefits they receive and enforce the group housing regulations.

VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!!!

carp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Local officials can't make it go away, but they
> can eliminate the benefits they receive and
> enforce the group housing regulations.
>
> VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!!!

LOL. Prince William has indentified the benefits that they can legally withhold from illegals...very minor stuff like free rides for the elderly (how many 80 year old beaners do you see around?). All the big ticket items like public school education, medical care, etc are untouchable....per the US Supreme Court.

BR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wedge Issue Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Last election it was "the gays want to get
> > married" and you gotta come vote to stop it.
> Now
> > it's "the Democrats want more illegals" and you
> > gotta come vote them out.
>
> I can already see the new big issue next election
> cycle: GAY ILLEGAL ALIENS WANT TO GET MARRIED AND
> STEAL AMERICAN JOBS. GAY CONSTRUCTION WORKERS
> HARDEST HIT.

Don't forget that the gay illegal aliens are mostly pedophile atheists as well.

I think it's funny how people are shouting at each other in the virtual world, as if there will be a "winner" on this thread that will affect how people vote.

I agree with moderate Republicans on this issue, I think we need to do a better job of controlling our borders. Worst case is that I have to cancel my lawn service and buy a lawn mower.

However, I just voted Democrat across the board. Why? Because illegal immigration is barely a footnote in the history that the US is writing right now. I care about the war, US leadership in the world, the religious right trying to take over and make their views the law of the land (abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, etc.)

It's funny. I've done very well and live in an expensive neighborhood. Most of my neighbors are Republican, and I can understand their view point. They want to keep a wide economic gap between themselves and those below them. That's fine - they vote economics, while I vote social issues. To each his own.

What I don't understand is the less well off that spout Republican propaganda. The old pick-up trucks with the Bush stickers. It must be religion, because it can't be economics. They haven't benefited from the republican economic agenda. I can only guess that they're voting conservative social issues as well. That's fine too. My only fear is that they've been tricked into thinking that THEY"RE actually benefiting from Republican fiscan policy.

Stephen Falken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> What I don't understand is the less well off that
> spout Republican propaganda. The old pick-up
> trucks with the Bush stickers. It must be
> religion, because it can't be economics. They
> haven't benefited from the republican economic
> agenda. I can only guess that they're voting
> conservative social issues as well. That's fine
> too. My only fear is that they've been tricked
> into thinking that THEY"RE actually benefiting
> from Republican fiscan policy.

I don't think it is religion either. The Republicans had control of Congress between 1995 and 2007.

Is prayer in school?

Is abortion illegal?

Is there an Amendment banning gay marriage?

While both political parties suck, the fact is the Republicans are big-time on lip service to rednecks and the Religious Right while actually ignoring them or even actively working against them. Those groups have been stereotyped as dumb. But, for the life of me, I can't see how that stereotype isn't accurate.

Wedge Issue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Last election it was "the gays want to get
> married" and you gotta come vote to stop it.

This election, it's "the eeeeebil republicans will win, and you gotta come vote to stop it!"

Fairfax MF---er Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is prayer in school?
>
> Is abortion illegal?
>
> Is there an Amendment banning gay marriage?
>
> While both political parties suck, the fact is the
> Republicans are big-time on lip service to
> rednecks and the Religious Right while actually
> ignoring them or even actively working against
> them. Those groups have been stereotyped as dumb.
> But, for the life of me, I can't see how that
> stereotype isn't accurate.


I agree with you to a certain extent, but you are writing in absolutes. As if, total ban on abortion is the only measurement or a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage is the only solution. The Repbulicans have appealed to the base in passing the partial birth abortion ban and DoMA. School prayer is a dead issue on the federal level. Also, most conservatives have been pleased with those confirmed to the supreme court.

The Republican party has set the country back on so many social fronts its not even funny. Teaching Abstinance? please. Ban Stem Cell research? the rest of the world laughs at our science. Illegal Aliens scare? Republicans and conservatives have been using that old trope since the 1800's against whatever "OTHER" race is a'comin to getcha jobs/women. Republicans are for maintaining the status quo. They want to keep their 1% wealth gap and use the lower class and middle class to maintain their positions of power. They have just sunk to new lows by scaring the lower working class with the even lower illegal immigrants. Combining working class and middle class fears against people lower in the social stratum than themselves is a brilliant move on their part.

Moderate realist. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Also, most
> conservatives have been pleased with those
> confirmed to the supreme court.


Don't forget, over the past 40 years, the bulk of Supreme Court Justices have been appointed by Republicans (and perceived as conservatives at the time) - and the Supreme Court has been liberal to moderate for most of that time. I have a feeling in a few years Conservatives will feel about Justice Roberts and Justice Alito the way they feel about Kennedy and O'Connor. Not quite Right enough.

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Republican party has set the country back on
> so many social fronts its not even funny.
> Teaching Abstinance? please. Ban Stem Cell
> research? the rest of the world laughs at our
> science. Illegal Aliens scare? Republicans and
> conservatives have been using that old trope since
> the 1800's against whatever "OTHER" race is
> a'comin to getcha jobs/women. Republicans are for
> maintaining the status quo. They want to keep
> their 1% wealth gap and use the lower class and
> middle class to maintain their positions of power.
> They have just sunk to new lows by scaring the
> lower working class with the even lower illegal
> immigrants. Combining working class and middle
> class fears against people lower in the social
> stratum than themselves is a brilliant move on
> their part.


It wasnt the Republic party that generated my fears. It was the Democrats
and their "roll out the red carpet for illegals" attitude that prompted me
to vote. The idea of Fairfax County being a "santctuary" is unacceptable.

Davey Crockett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> It wasnt the Republic party that generated my
> fears. It was the Democrats
> and their "roll out the red carpet for illegals"
> attitude that prompted me
> to vote. The idea of Fairfax County being a
> "santctuary" is unacceptable.


lIsten davey, just cuz you killed yew a bear when yew wuz only three doesnt make you a better man. You got killed at the Alamo OK? by MEXICANS! Texas was MEXICO at the time. so Shut the FUCK UP

Davey Crockett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> It wasnt the Republic party that generated my
> fears. It was the Democrats
> and their "roll out the red carpet for illegals"
> attitude that prompted me
> to vote. The idea of Fairfax County being a
> "santctuary" is unacceptable.


Yeah. That is much worse than the Republican-controlled Congress slashing INS, Border Patrol, etc, in order to give massive contracts to the likes of Halliburton and Bechtel who overcharge U.S. taxpayers to build facilities in Iraq that are unusable. It was Bush's Justice Department that told Federal prosecutors in the border states to lighten up on prosecuting illegals. You never heard of illegal immigration being this much of a problem when Bill Clinton was President, now did you?

Be careful what you wish for....I can just hear you sumbitches squealing when a head of lettuce costs 10 bucks. And you have to cart your own trash to the dump. 99% of those AAA trash trucks are driven by beaners. Believe me, THAT'S a job 'Murcans don't want....even if they could pass the drug test fpr a Commercial Drivers License.

I don't particularly like seeing beaners standing around either....but we would definitely miss them if they were gone.

Both sides of my family hit these shores in the 1890's, from Ireland and Italy...and were treated like dogs, especially the Irish side. The natives thought the world was coming to an end what with all the immigrant trash flooding "their" country. The world didn't end then and it won't now.

Fairfax MF---er Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah. That is much worse than the
> Republican-controlled Congress slashing INS,
> Border Patrol, etc, in order to give massive
> contracts to the likes of Halliburton and Bechtel
> who overcharge U.S. taxpayers to build facilities
> in Iraq that are unusable. It was Bush's Justice
> Department that told Federal prosecutors in the
> border states to lighten up on prosecuting
> illegals. You never heard of illegal immigration
> being this much of a problem when Bill Clinton was
> President, now did you?

There is no more INS it hasn't been around for over 5 years. The duties have been transferred to ICE, CBP, and CIS. All that being said, I seriously doubt any of those budgets were slashed. Since 2001, the U.S. has increased funding for immigration enforcement by 35 percent. The government has added nearly 1,000 agents and investigators to immigration enforcement, Since 2001, The U.S. has removed several million illegal immigrants from the United States - including nearly 300,000 with criminal records. Finally, since 2001, the Federal government has increased funding for border security by 60 percent and hired more than 1,900 new Border Patrol agents.

All of this crap might not work, but it isn't due to lack of funding.

i find ppl's selective memories amusing... you know... up until jimmy carter, the democratic party was run by the Southern democrats who were OPENLY racist and biased. ppl here act like republicans have been running on the "fear mongering" agenda since their creation... abraham lincoln was especially guilty of that aweful fear mongering right. and if u look at the politics of JFK hes politcal views are more in line with todays conservatives rather than liberals.

whoever said to each his own is right, vote how u wanna vote, just dont be ignorant. If anyone who says all republicans are guilty of fear mongering and being dumb and stereotyping cant see the irony in that then they are just blind morons

This illegal alien thing is a wedge issue. This has been cooked up by Karl Rove (yes he is still around) and other strategists to re-vitalize a base that needs re-vitalizing.

Oil is at an all time high, the war is going nowhere at best, the doillar is sinking so what do you do? You say get out and vote so gay illegal aliens cant get married.

Every day, most conservative talk show hosts get a fax from the RNC. The fax tells them what to talk about and what specific words and quotes to use. These are called "daily talking points". And it is from this fax that most right wing talk show hosts get their information. Very few of them are bright enough to read a newspaper. Then they complain about the media being biased, but there sources come directly from the RNC, who arent biased.....

A couple of weeks ago, this talking point memo gave the talk show hosts information that Obama said he showed his patriotissm other ways than wearing a flag lapel pin.

All he talk shows picked up on it and talked about what a rotten American Obama was. Not one of them mentioned the quote they were using was from 5 years ago. They were given a quote to use - and it was not what Obama said, they twisted a few words around and deleted some other words. So Rush, Sean, Michael, Mark, etc all of them quoted Obama as saying what he did not say. And they all read the same exact wrong quote.

So when people suspect the Republicans are manipulating the electorate, they are.

So get out and vote to get rid of illegals. I suspect if republicans win,in a couple of years we will still have more illegals in this country than we do now and there will be another wedge issue to distract you from that.

Open your eyes see the lights right in front of you.

PS. Regarding the people with Bush stickers on their pick up trucks - the reason is that many of these people believe one day they will be rich and will benefit from Republican tax breaks and any appeal of the estate tax. I have met many people of no "means" what so ever who are ready to fight to the death to ensure the Hilton and Gallo kids inherit their money tax free.

"When I am rich..." they think to themselves.

Unless they win the lottery, and even then, trust me, they will not be rich.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2007 04:10PM by Radiophile.

lord fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i find ppl's selective memories amusing... you
> know... up until jimmy carter, the democratic
> party was run by the Southern democrats who were
> OPENLY racist and biased.


Errr. Most of them became Republicans during the Reagan Revolution. Talk about "selective memory."

Moderate realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fairfax MF---er Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah. That is much worse than the
> > Republican-controlled Congress slashing INS,
> > Border Patrol, etc, in order to give massive
> > contracts to the likes of Halliburton and
> Bechtel
> > who overcharge U.S. taxpayers to build
> facilities
> > in Iraq that are unusable. It was Bush's
> Justice
> > Department that told Federal prosecutors in the
> > border states to lighten up on prosecuting
> > illegals. You never heard of illegal
> immigration
> > being this much of a problem when Bill Clinton
> was
> > President, now did you?
>
> There is no more INS it hasn't been around for
> over 5 years. The duties have been transferred to
> ICE, CBP, and CIS. All that being said, I
> seriously doubt any of those budgets were slashed.
> Since 2001, the U.S. has increased funding for
> immigration enforcement by 35 percent. The
> government has added nearly 1,000 agents and
> investigators to immigration enforcement, Since
> 2001, The U.S. has removed several million illegal
> immigrants from the United States - including
> nearly 300,000 with criminal records. Finally,
> since 2001, the Federal government has increased
> funding for border security by 60 percent and
> hired more than 1,900 new Border Patrol agents.
>
> All of this crap might not work, but it isn't due
> to lack of funding.

Once again, Fairfax MF---er, making up facts. This is not an opinion statement! We get it, you hate Republicans, but you seriously can't find legitimate faults with them that you have to make stuff up?!?

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PS. Regarding the people with Bush stickers on
> their pick up trucks - the reason is that many of
> these people believe one day they will be rich and
> will benefit from Republican tax breaks and any
> appeal of the estate tax. I have met many people
> of no "means" what so ever who are ready to fight
> to the death to ensure the Hilton and Gallo kids
> inherit their money tax free.
>
> "When I am rich..." they think to themselves.
>
> Unless they win the lottery, and even then, trust
> me, they will not be rich.

I know how much they hate Hillary. When Clinton was in office, I used to have to travel to Idaho for work, and their hatred was like venom. I would just not say much and think how "red state" they were. Now with the current administration, I'm the one with the venom. I've actually developed some respect for their hatred during the Clinton administration, thinking "if they hated him half as much as I hate Bush..."

My guess is they hated her because she was a mean, vindictive liar but that is just a guess. In case you havent heard even her pals George Stepanoulous and DeDe Myers had nothing good to say about her and those were her friends.

Joe Citizen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My guess is they hated her because she was a mean,
> vindictive liar but that is just a guess. In case
> you havent heard even her pals George Stepanoulous
> and DeDe Myers had nothing good to say about her
> and those were her friends.


And Cheney/rumsfeld arent mean vindictive evil motherfuckers!? Once you are in power you dont wanna be some chump who is wishy washy and waffels to everyone's point of view now do you? Id rather have someone who is principled and resolute in their stance than some schmuck who wants to pls everyone and be LIKED!

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And Cheney/rumsfeld arent mean vindictive evil
> motherfuckers!? Once you are in power you dont
> wanna be some chump who is wishy washy and waffels
> to everyone's point of view now do you? Id rather
> have someone who is principled and resolute in
> their stance than some schmuck who wants to pls
> everyone and be LIKED!

I agree about the current administration, but I'm not sure of respecting anyone just because they're "resolute". Bush keeps claiming that he's a real leader because he's doing what he thinks is right despite most people disagreeing. Clearly, I want a person who is "pricipled" and "resolute" enough to agree with MY opinions over every one else! :)

How else are you supposed to get out your base?