I remember reading something on here about the huge salaries, double dipping and benefits of the cops and firefighters but this is outrageous and happening now.

There is a battalion chief who is making about 130K base salary plus benefits doing his regular job. And he has retired but still working with the department making 130K base plus drawing his pension of about 110K and on top of that he is working with the Fairfax County Emergency Management in a totally separate position for another 70-80K.

His pay from the County is over $300,000 a year! On top of all that he is taking advantage of a brand new Ford F250 department truck to drive home and to his personal errands. If this is not a fleecing of the system we are not sure what is anymore. Several of us have seen this guy going to the grocery stores and restaurants in Loundon County in his department vehicle. We are going to post pictures this week.

So we ask you the taxpayers of Fairfax County should this be happening?

We try not to make it personal but on top of all that he is bragging out about how good he has it to his friends. While the regular workers have not had a raise in four years now.

We say ENOUGH is ENOUGH and let's call out the people who are fleecing the system. Do you have a story you can share?

Enough Enough! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember reading something on here about the
> huge salaries

I should think so, you wrote it.

You can't count pension in the number, he'd get that sitting at home and is under no obligation to go back to work to earn it.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

Enough Enough! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So we ask you the taxpayers of Fairfax County
> should this be happening?

Sure, why not?

Each of the things that single person is doing could would have been done by 3 individuals otherwise. Assuming he isn;t literally working two 8-hur/day jobs at the same time what he's doing is perfectly fine by me.

How did you obtain this information?

Some context would be helpful. I have no idea if $300K for a fire chief in a county our size is reasonable or not. While $300K is a lot it may be in line with other chiefs in similarly sized counties, if so I'd be less concerned. After all, I want to make the going rate for what I do.

However, if the average is $150k and he's making $300k - then I tend to agree with you.

FFX resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some context would be helpful. I have no idea if
> $300K for a fire chief in a county our size is
> reasonable or not.

You fell for the red herring in the post. He was including a retirement benefit payment in the misleading numbers.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

A contract is a contract.

OK I answered my own questions, see BLS website below which lists Battalion Chief nationla average salaries between $66K and $81K. In fairness you need to give him some head room as FFX Co is clearly one of the largest counties in the country so comparing him to rural counties in Alabama or Wyoming probably isn't going to give you an accurate number. In any event, $300K is a bit much. Although the original post doesn't get specific about how much he gets from his Chief job versus how much he gets from the other County Position. The double dip issue appears to be a bigger issue.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos329.htm

Yes the double dipper issue is the bigger part of this equation. The salary peeves alot of people because there haven't been any raises for general county employees. He is getting another salary and they wrote about the vehicle benefit. I have seen those county cars in Gainesville too. People should start snapping pictures and post them on this site.

It is easy to hide behind this forum but I do agree something does not smell right even if he is doing these jobs. Sounds like this guy is a typical white shirt in the county just very self0serving!

We should not forget that the fire and rescue department is shutting down ambulances to redistribute personnel to other fire stations. Meanwhile our friend Rohr continues to take advantage of the system while the system itself suffers. So yes I agree with the original intent that this is inappropriate and he should be called out.

But the populace of this richest most powerful nation on Earth, rather focus on cutting Teacher salaries.

Its also pathetic how under paid our armed forces are.

If you are seriously outraged, let's see you get out with a sign in front of a fire station. If not, enough with the trolling posts as you have made your point already.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

The man put in his 20 years and retired. He deserves his pension. It was part of his compensation for his original 20 years of work. It doesn't matter if he's sitting on a beach in Jamaica, flipping burgers at a fast food joint, or FEMA director; he deserves his pension.

As it turns out, this individual is now working two more jobs, and collecting a salary for each one. What's wrong with that? If you worked as a cashier at WalMart during the day, and a stock person during the evening, would you do that for only 8 hours of pay? I sincerely doubt it. Sure sure, you can point out that I'm mentioning hourly jobs, but why are salaried jobs much different? He has two jobs with responsibilities to two different groups; he deserves two salaries.

You sound like the Republicans. Point at something that makes up a minuscule portion of the budget and say it needs cut, all the while ignoring the gigantic obligations that are truly going to sink us. Seriously, Fairfax County's budget is 3.3 BILLION dollars. This guy's total compensation equals .0091% (yes, less than one hundredth of one percent!) of the Fairfax County budget. Hell, I'd bet his pension doesn't even come out of the general fund either, instead coming from a pension fund specifically for that purpose.

Find another tree to bark up, you're not going to find any sympathy here.

Not mentioning the pension makes the nonsensical argument easier to make. That's why I say get out there with a sign or STFU as it is just trolling.

It is like arguing someone who retires at 60 and is pulling his money out of his 401k or IRA can't work at market rates because his retirement money should somehow "count" in the number. Dumb.

Enough Enough! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Re: Fairfax Fire Department Battalion Chief makes 300K !
>

There IS a difference between "Fairfax" and Fairfax County. You need to specify Fairfax City or Fairfax County. Your Subject is incorrect if you are referring to Fairfax County.

"... you're not going to find any sympathy here."

barf

Knuckleheads in FFX County ... and everywhere else - believe the following:

All firefighters, all cops, all teachers, etc. are all heroes. They need more money? We can't give enough. They are wonderful. Rudolph Guiliani? He liked NYC firefighters and cops - he's wonderful. Pensions? Let's give 'em more. A cop pulled us over and gave us a citation for not having a registration for the vehicle we just bought 10 minutes ago? We must've done something wrong. Sorry officer!

etc.

etc.

etc.

Let me get this straight... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The man put in his 20 years and retired. He
> deserves his pension. It was part of his
> compensation for his original 20 years of work.
> It doesn't matter if he's sitting on a beach in
> Jamaica, flipping burgers at a fast food joint, or
> FEMA director; he deserves his pension.
>
> As it turns out, this individual is now working
> two more jobs, and collecting a salary for each
> one. What's wrong with that? If you worked as a
> cashier at WalMart during the day, and a stock
> person during the evening, would you do that for
> only 8 hours of pay? I sincerely doubt it. Sure
> sure, you can point out that I'm mentioning hourly
> jobs, but why are salaried jobs much different?
> He has two jobs with responsibilities to two
> different groups; he deserves two salaries.
>
> You sound like the Republicans. Point at
> something that makes up a minuscule portion of the
> budget and say it needs cut, all the while
> ignoring the gigantic obligations that are truly
> going to sink us. Seriously, Fairfax County's
> budget is 3.3 BILLION dollars. This guy's total
> compensation equals .0091% (yes, less than one
> hundredth of one percent!) of the Fairfax County
> budget. Hell, I'd bet his pension doesn't even
> come out of the general fund either, instead
> coming from a pension fund specifically for that
> purpose.
>
> Find another tree to bark up, you're not going to
> find any sympathy here.


Well the thing is that if you take every piece of the budget it looks like just a tiny individual piece, which is what it is. However, if this illustrates a larger problem with the budget, then that is a different story.

However, I agree with you. The guy is doing nothing wrong. I think this complaining about pensions is all because virtually no one in the private sector gets them anymore. So, there's a certain amount of jealousy involved. One wonders why they aren't more angry that THEY no longer get pensions than why someone else does.

Even long ago no more than a third of the workforce ever had access to pensions. Small companies never had them, and with the dawn of the 401k small companies often match a portion of employee contributions. That is more than the nothing workers were getting in pensions. So the "good old days" of pensions applied to few, and the other two-thirds now are better off.

Well I'm guessing a third is more than who are getting it now, but point taken and well made. I do have to say the work environment has changed significantly now, as most people don't work at the same place/company for 20 years, so in many ways this change is understandable in any event. Still it would be a good incentive to keep employees for at least a few years. I've only been one place that offered them though and haven't heard of many that exist now. They offered 401K matching too on top of that.

Oh sure, now it is much less. But anti-pension arguments often call them a thing of the past (they pretty much are) but also frame it as some perk everyone used to have but now no one has (not correct). But people like the original thread poster paint a pension as if someone collecting one is evil, skimming off The People, etc. Including that number as some sort of component of current compensation is a part of that.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2011 02:15PM by justsayin.

Johnny Walker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well the thing is that if you take every piece of
> the budget it looks like just a tiny individual
> piece, which is what it is. However, if this
> illustrates a larger problem with the budget, then
> that is a different story.

True, when viewed microscopically everything breaks up into small parts, but that's not what this poster is doing. He's complaining about a specific individual's salary, not the salary of all firemen or of all Battalion Chiefs even. That's either excessive nit-picking or this person is bitter he hasn't had that type of long-term commitment and success in things.

You folks don't get it! We all love firefighters but this guy is getting paid for two Fairfax County jobs at one time, until he retires from the Batallion job in July. At that point, his retirement salary will be based on the combined two incomes to make 300K. Don't know about the takehome vehicle, but not surprised. Common people, wake up!

Name the person. He is, after all, a public servant. Shame may be the only way to address this - people should know, by name, the people that are fleecing them.

I guess you did not work yourself up in your company risking your life.

Chairwoman Bulova of the FFX County Supervisors has had the name for two months.

Isn't the name mentioned in the above comment by BLS Tech?

I guess we should not really care because it is not costing anything to the taxpayers? Is there not any fleecing of tax dollars? May be there is and maybe there is not but one thing for sure is driving that vehicle around on the tax dollars fuel and maintenance probably is not the smartest thing this guy can do . He knows people are watching and yes some maybe jealous that they did not move up in the company but at the same time we know for a fact that this chief can barely do his own job yet alone another because he is barely even around. And he is burning his annual leave. So we will offer up some personal opinions, the reason too that people are calling him out is that this guy is a prick and I mean a real insecure prick of a guy. He never was a leader and has been very badge heavy since he received the gold badge. Is he not respected nor trusted. The other reason is he 100% all about himself so he is also a self serving prick bastard. Let's just call it the way it is. Mark has always had to rely on his badge and his brother's chief's badge to try to intimidate people. Really never accomplished anything for the good of the system. I say let him stay until July and that way he will understand what kind of a prick people think he is because no one will do anything for him. Really is sad to see this happening because his brothers are decent folks. You would think this selfserving, prick, rat bastard would learn.

No way a battalion chief should be making 130K base + benefits + pension.

In addition, his second job can be filled with the 100's of qualified people that have been laid off over the past 5 years.

Yeah, some dumb sheep, will see nothing wrong with this system (I do agree, the person is not doing anything wrong per se..I would have done the same)

its kind of sad but this country is going to have some very tough times ahead when the credit card finally gets declined. just make sure you are armed

This line is the funniest part of the OP:

Enough Enough! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember reading something on here about the
> huge salaries

There is nothing wrong with what this guy is doing and all of you would do the same thing if you were smart enough and kissed enough ass to obtain this gig. Just leave the truck in the county, stop talking about how how you will be withdrawing over 200K cash in July plus you received a raise when you entered the DROP and learn to be nice. And maybe just maybe someone will be nice to you. BE NICE, PLAY NICE!

ooooh dawgie -

ROHR,MARK A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF $135,635.43

Is he one of the idiots that drive their kids to softball and soccer games out of the county in their county government cars?

I see those guys in Gainesville with their unmarked suburbans and pick up trucks hauling their kids around in fairfax vehicles using county fuel.

Granddaddy retired onnce from the navy, once from GE and then built houses here in nova. I just don't understand how he maintains a job as A battalion chief and emergency management in a separate position at the same time. Forget the base and the pension, both are in line, I suppose, with lala lands pay structure, bu you would have to proove that you can not find a single other qualified candidate for either position hebcurrently holds. As in He is the only man in the county who possess these skillsets, especially if there are qualified candidates waiting promotion. I'm honestly surprised none of you could cut to the fat of this one

I think teachers, cops, firefighters, and other public servants should all be making good six figure salaries. They deserve it far more than some athlete who could paid millions this day-and-age.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Just Sayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ooooh dawgie -
>
> ROHR,MARK A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF
> $135,635.43


He must be the brother of the FFX. City Fire Chief.

Btw, a little different name, but I wonder if PD Chief Rohrer and Fire Chief Rohr are in anyway related.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO), the fire laddies and lassies should be making over $ 500,000 a year. When you need them, they perform better than any doctor, lawyer or indian chief!

Mayor of Fairfax County Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In My Humble Opinion (IMHO), the fire laddies and
> lassies should be making over $ 500,000 a year.
> When you need them, they perform better than any
> doctor, lawyer or indian chief!

--------------------------------------------------
gotta admit.............................

A few things:

First, members in the field work a 56 hour workweek. We have 24 hour shifts. The schedule is WOWOWOOOO, W= work, O= off. When compared to someone working a 40 hour workweek, over the 25 years (not 20) that are required to reach full retirement, we actually work the equivalent of 33.75 40 hour workweek years. We're also paid straight time for 53 of those 56 hours, on the average, per FLSA laws. Our annual compensation is for an extra 40% hours worked over the typical 40 hour employee. Also, for every five 56 hour employees the fire dept hires, the county saves money on two positions (56x5 = 40x7), to include salasry, benefits, paid time off, equipment, training, retirement, etc. All of this needs to be considered when speaking out against public safety salary and benefits.

We have the DROP program. We're allowed to retire, be immediately rehired, earn our same salary, and also collect our pension benefit in deferred comp. Believe it or not, it doesn't cost the county. The county no longer has to contribute into our pension fund when we enter the DROP. The county makes out by not spending money to hire and train a new employee, and they get to keep a valued, experienced employee.

Thanks for the verification, and whoever has a problem with anything you wrote is a DNA waste who would wet his or her pants at the thought of living through any one of your long workweeks.

So what if the county (I mean taxpayers) throw in $116 million per year toward the retirement of this hard wroking individuals.

My gosh, they have to work until age 55!!

You people need to have a little respect and appreciate all they do for us.

I feel that retirement after 25 years of service (really 33.75 40 hour workweek-years) is appropriate. We're woken un abruptly once or several times at night, which results in an adrenaline dump and chronically disrupts our circadian rhythms. It's like having perpetual jet lag, and it also predisposes us to cardiac disease and hypertension. The firefighter's life expectancy is around seven years or so less than the national average - we're repeatedly exposed to the the toxic byproducts of combustion and diesel fumes. Various cancers are much more prevalent in firefighters. Heart attacks and other cardiac events are responsible for around half of the line of duty deaths each year. Look it up. On the EMS side, we're exposed to a whole array of diseases. We get the occasional needle stick, meningitis exposure, TB, etc. I know many a broken down medic. I know those who have blown out their shoulders, their backs, one guy at FS 405 suffered a 100% distal biceps tear and was out over six months. I pray that my back holds out every time I go to work. When the 300 plus pound patient is wedged between the toilet and the tub, or in the tub, and is circling the drain (no pun intended), we have to risk orthopedic injury to lift them and get them downstairs and out of the house. We nearly get run over on the interstate on occasion. It's why we block 2-3 lanes for every motor vehicle collision (they're not accidents).

This is what we sign up for when we apply for the job, I have no complaints, but I feel it's unfair for anyone to suggest that we're living high on the hog by qualifying for a pension after 25(56 hour/week) years.

BTW, degrees and an array of job related courses such as the NIMS series, the Officer series, and the Instructor series will be required to be eligible to sit for the promotional exam for various ranks of officers. It's not like we can just screw off in our youth, get a GED, put in a few years, and make six figures. A FF tops out at around 80k base, and that takes around 15 years give or take (I don't remember exactly).

"A FF tops out at around $80k base"





RYAN,THOMAS W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
RYAN,MATTHEW P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
PISANI,RALPH M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
NESMITH,VECKSER T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
MICHEL,PETER J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
HOLLINGSWORTH,GEORGE A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
CAPLE,SANDRA K FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
BRENNAN,MARK G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
WHITE,PAUL L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
WENTZEL,WAYNE P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
WEALAND,THOMAS J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
TSCHANN,GLENN F FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
TOBIN,DAVID P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
THOMPSON,KENDALL FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
THOMPSON,CHRISTOPHER FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
SYDNOR,RONALD B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
SMITH,RICHARD C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
RIFFE,TIMOTHY W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
POLEN,ELTON W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
PARKER,PAUL H FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
PALAU,JOSEPH FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
NASH,MARK A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MORAVITZ,BRIAN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MONTAGUE,DONALD P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MOHLER,ROBERT M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MILLER,STEPHEN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MCGEHEE,ROGER T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MCCULLEN,MICHAEL G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MARSHALL,TODD M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
LEETE,JOHN L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
LANGE,DAVID G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
KISER,JOSEPH L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
KEYS,MICHAEL B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
JOHNSON,JAMES B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
JENKINS,LARRY E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
ISTVAN,MICHAEL A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
HEIDER,JAMES C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
HARRISON,JAMES T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
HARRIS,BRENDAN B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
HALL,TODD S FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GRIGG,WESLEY D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GRIFFIN,RAYMOND E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GRAHAM,PETER M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GEMSHEIM,RONALD A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GARCIA,MICHAEL J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
DUBETSKY,KEITH M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
DIZE,GARY C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
DEAN,TROY H FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
CONRAD,DAVID P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
BUTLER,LEROY L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
BERQUIST,ROBYNN M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
BEASLEY,OSCAR L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44

@ not exactly,

Again, a firefighter tops out at around $80k base. You posted numerous individuals that have the rank of Capt I. Of course their salaries are going to be more than a firefighter.

We're compensated by grade and steps. For example, a firefighter is an 18/1. They start at around $48k/yr base. Each year, we get a step increase if the county executive approves it.BTW, our raises have been frozen since 7/09, and we've been told that we're not getting any step increases this year, either. Our steps are 5% each time. Once we get to step 8, we're frozen for two years, then one more steps, then frozen for five years, another step, and then the firefighter gets that 80k.

From firefighter, each promotion results in a 5-10% raise, no more, no less. From FF, you can promote to Technician, then Master tech, Lieutenant, Capt I, Capt II, Bat. Chief, Deputy Chief, Asst. Chief, then fire Chief. The list you've provided consists of individuals that have a lot of time in the department, as in 20+ years in many cases, and needed three to four promotions to receive that salary. Also, many of those on the list are in the field, working 56 hour weeks on the average, which is 40% more hours than the 40 hour employee, which lets the department save two positions on every five hired. Furthermore, the Capt I and above no longer fall under FLSA, so every hour worked, even OT, is straight time only.

Let me ask you, what point were you trying to make by posting the salaries of tenured Capt I's, who need several promotions to command that salary?

Another thing, the intention of the DROP was to enable our retirees to be able to afford health insurance post retirement. My plan costs over $1,200 a month, 25% of which we're responsible for, just like other county employees. When we retire, we can keep the county's insurance, but we must pay 100% of the premium from then on. What will it be in five years? Ten? Look at how much our premiums have jumped in the last five years or so. That $1,200 can easily become $2,000 or $3,000, or even more. We're not like other departments that give uniformed employees free health coverage for life> We also pay into our pensions; we always have. The county also took no holidays from it's retirement contributions, nor did they raid the fund. In fact, after the market tanked, they put in even more! Anyone with even the most rudimentary knowledge of personal finance knows that a market downturn is the same as these stocks being on sale. You have $100 to spend. You can buy ten shares at $100 if they're $10/share. If the price drops to $5/share, you can buy 20. Instead, spend $200, buy 20 shares, end enjoy the profit when the market returns to it's former level. You're basically buying 10 dollar shares for five. That's what the county did. It's not that difficult to comprehend. Our pension fund is quite solvent, and is doing better than most. It works well when it isn't raided, or if contributions are withheld in times of prosperity.

TORRES,MICHAEL E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
ROBERTS,WILLIAM G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
REGAN,MICHAEL P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
PAPOUTSIS,THOMAS J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
MISCOVICH,TIMOTHY J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
LANDSTREET,MICHAEL W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
FORBACH,ERIC D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
EDMONDSON,KEVIN A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
CONNOLLY,THOMAS M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
BRULEY,JON P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
YOUNG,DANIEL T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WRIGHT,DAVID S FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WOOLF,KELLY W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WILSON,JAMES D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WILLIAMS,MARCUS D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WHITE,MICHAEL FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WHEELER,ROBERT E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WHARTON,JEFFREY T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WEAVER,GEORGE W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WALMER,JACK L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WALLACE,KRISTIN A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
VOZZOLA,GARY W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
VARNAU,DALE L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
URPS,DANNY R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
UNGER,DANA R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
SNYDER,JON W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
SMITH,LESLIE C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
OUDEKERK,JOHN N FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
OLEKSIA,JOSEPH A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
O'CONNOR,SEAN J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
NEUHAUS,BRUCE A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MULLINS,ANTHONY D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MORRISON,GERARD J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MORRIS,JAMES T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MORIN,GARY E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MONSEUR,EDMOND D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MILLS,CHARLES D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MELOY,THOMAS C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MASTERS,PETER B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MARTIN,CHARLES A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MARKS,MICHAEL J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MALOF,MATTHEW P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
LUECKE,CRAIG S FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
LOW,JAMES R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
KRATOCHVIL,JOSEPH M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
KLOPP,JEFFREY F FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
JOHNSON,WALTER E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
JOHNSON,RICHARD L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
JACKSON,GLENN C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
GRIFFIN,THOMAS J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
FOWLER,TIM E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
ERLENDSON,ERIC G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DYE,BEN A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DICKERSON,ROBERT W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DIAZ,GEORGE L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DENNIS,JAMES L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DAWLEY,RICHARD A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
CLARK,STEVEN D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
CHATMON,CARLTON FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BUNDY,WILLIAM F FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BRYANT,DAVID M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BRIGHT,RICHARD E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BRASWELL,LAWRENCE M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BOWMAN,EDWARD D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BOSWELL,KARRIE L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BOOKWALTER,JAMES R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BENDO,PETE J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BARROW,ARNOLD J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
ALLEN,JEFFREY R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
ALLEN,CLIFTON FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
ADAMS,CHARLES F FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
STRAUBINGER,MARC L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,931.76
FERGUSON,SEAN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,931.76

WHITE,CINDY SUE FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
WELLS,OSCAR T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
STRICKLEN,JAMES R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
SHAW,DANIEL D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
SCHWARZMANN,DAVID FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
RATHBONE,BARRY JAMES FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
PERKINS,JAMES A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
MERRITT,JOSEPH DONALD FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
MASON,GLENN A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
MAHAM,BARRY W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
LOPEZ,MATTHEW MOLEIRO FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
KRAUT,SCOTT FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
KELLY,PATRICK T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
FISCHER,MICHAEL J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
EVANS,SEAN T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
EDWARDS,KEVIN FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
CUNNINGHAM,CHARLES R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
BURNS,MATTHEW CHARLES FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
ATWELL,WILLIAM J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07

Hello Mr. Fairfax County EMS Douche I mean Tech,

You forgot to mention that you get an extra 10% for your medic certificate and you get an extra $3 an hour for working less on a call then most folks around you. And let us not forget that one of your only complaints is that your reporting tablet takes a long time to transmit information. Yep the tablet that you hold while everyone else is taking care of the patient and carrying all of your equipment. And time and a half for o/t and among other perks.

So there.

And no this is not Mark Rohr trying to divert attention from the fleecing of Fairfax County. I don't care how much gas is a gallon because I get all the diesel fuel I want for free. Yes this is the Mark Rohr is considered one of the biggest self centered jerk offs in the county. And no this is not me however I am making over $320,000 a year off of Fairfax County. Suckers!

Seriously....do we need all these people?????

How many fires are there in Fairfax County every year?


LEYDEN,SVENJA ELLEN FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
LEWIS,EVAN JOHN FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
LAVEROCK,KENNETH M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
KULEY,RONALD J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
JOHNSON,STEPHEN M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
JACKSON,LLOYD B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
HYDEN,WILLIAM T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
HORTON,CHARLES W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
HIGGINBOTHAM,JOHN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
HENDERSHOT,MICHAEL D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
DECARLO,EDWARD D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
BURROUGHS,EARL J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
BEST,WILLIAM MARVIN FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
BARRERA,MERVIN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
SLEPETZ,RICHARD S FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.58
ROGERS,JOHN W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.58
RAY,CHARLEEN L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.58
BROWN,CYNTHIA LEE FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.58
TOMASELLO,PATRICIA FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
ROBBINS,GEORGE FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
FAYSON,TERRANCE LAMONT FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
BROCK,ADAM C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
ALVARO,ROCCO FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
PLUNKETT,MARK J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.42
HOUGHTON,TRENTON L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.42
HOBGOOD,JAMES PETER FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.42
EDWARDS,DEREK A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.42

Hey numbnuts,

If you're going to complain about having to do work at work, go find another job and stop being an embarrassment to the department. I'll carry my own bags and do the work myself if it means hearing less of your pompous ~8yr "career" attitude.

Why don't you go to paramedic school and show us all how easy it is being one. Stop your bitching and start improving the system instead of cutting your coworkers down anonymously in a public forum, you self centered fucking douche bag.

still no $80k Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously....do we need all these people?????
>
> How many fires are there in Fairfax County every
> year?
>
-----------------------------------------------

hey DUMBASS!! youseroiusly saying you'd rather have MORE FIRES in the county in order to save $$$$$$$$$$$?

I'd point out that the firefighters do WAAAAAYYY MORE than just put out fires, but somehow, i dont think yr tiny little cerebellum could handle the data

LoLz

@ throwing the fag,

It's 5% for our cert pay. Any yes, we get $3/hr to ride the medic unit. We do around 70-80% of the call volume, and we're out for 1- 1 1/2 hours each call, depending on the station. Meanwhile, the engine is dispatched for many of these EMS calls, even though we don't need the help (a good number of us came from other systems where just the two of us can handle most patients). You're back at PT, dinner, your bed, or whatever. I'm not complaining, it's just the fact of the matter. I also earned my EMS degree on my own, while working full time. By comparison, to make technician, what did you have to do? A two week hazmat class? Some TROT certs here or there? Some on duty self study for the apparatus test?

EMS = much more education than either of the other specialties, more call volume, higher utilization hours for the ALS txp unit, skills and education that are used much more frequently on a regular basis, and must be maintained. Hence the $5K cert pay, the hourly stipend, and the OT opportunities. The OT is copious because less people want to be medics, because it's one of the less desireable positions within the department. OT is copious because many drop their ALS cert, usually due to burnout, which is another reason for the more generous compensation. nothing's stopping you from earning your ALS cert. the FRD is sponsoring another ALS school, and others have gone out on their own to get it.

@ still no 80k,

You're getting closer, only three ranks away from firefighters. These are Lieutenants, at the top of their pay grade, which takes many years, like I said earlier. Post the Master Techs, Techs, then finally post firefighters, to get your 80k. Do I have to hold your hand?

Also, we have around 1400 employees or so. We have 37 engines. Each one has an officer on it, with three techs or FF's. Same for our eight Squads. Each of our 14 Trucks/Towers has an officer and two FF's. Each EMS PTU has an officer on it as well. There are many more FF's and techs than officers. If you need an education about the importance of timeliness and adequate staffing for fir suppression, go to youtube and search for the Fairfax County (VA) Truck Staffing Video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_K-K6o5cGc

What's more, we do a lot more than fire suppression. There are alarm bells, gas leaks, CO alarms, outside/brush fires, public service such as putting the elderly back in bed after getting stuck on the floor, MVC's, EMS first response, EMS transport, placing and checking on smoke detectors, Technical Rescue, Hazmat incidents, etc. etc.

If you think we're overstaffed and overdeployed, then move to PG county and depend on their service. They do a great job, but they're horribly understaffed. They use us for mutual aid all the time, mostly from FS 405 and FS 411, and never have the resources to pay us back. Maybe ask their taxpayers to give a subsidy for using our services on a very frequent basis.

Retiree Issues



There are currently four issues the retirees are focusing on. The first issue is maintaining the status quo on our health care subsidy. This is the monthly payment retirees receive from the county to assist with the cost of their health insurance premiums. With implementation of GASB 45 we are concerned that county only contributed 50% of the projected amount to the fund for FY 2009



The second issue is to have the remainder of the Social Security offset for disability retirees removed. At age 62 a disability retiree must file for SS benefits and then the benefits paid by the county are reduced by 64% of the SS benefits received. The offset is a financial punishment for those who have retired on disability. In the past two years, while working with the Local, we have seen the offset drop from 64% to 30%. Today the reduction is 30% and by next July we hope to have it removed completely.



The third issue is to work with the Local to seek legislation in the Virginia General Assembly that will provide a funding mechanism for the Line of Duty Trust Fund. This fund currently provides free health care insurance to State Police officers and a limited number of PSO’s. The new funding would include PSOs who retired in the mid 1960’s.



The fourth issue is to have the 4% cap on our Cost Of Living Adjustments increased to 5%. Retired police officers, if the fund allows, can receive maximum 5% COLA each year. Members of the Uniformed Retirement System are capped at 4%, regardless of how well the fund does. We will be working with the Local and the Retirement Board Trustees to have this change implemented.

1,932 firefighters for 300 fires??????


Fairfax County
Fire & Rescue Department
Annual Summary (FY 2010)
(July 1, 2009 - June 30, 2010)

FY10 ..........$164,792,296
FY09 ..........$164,698,315
FY08 ..........$165,635,104


Uniformed .............. 1,381
Civilian ..................141
Civilian, Seasonal ........119
Volunteers
(operational) ..............291
Advanced Life Support
(ALS) Engines ............ 37
Medics ...................... 38
Ambulances ................. 4
Haz mat Units .............. 2
Trucks ...................... 14
Aerial Ladders ............ 7
Tower Ladders ........... 7
Tankers ....................... 5
Rescues ...................... 8



Accidental Fires ....... 103
Incendiary Fires ........80
Other Fires ............. 103
Undetermined Fires ... 14
Hazardous Materials. 425

Fairfax County
Fire & Rescue Department
Annual Summary (FY 2009)
(July 1, 2008 - June 30, 2009)

246 fires

Accidental Fires ......... 97
Incendiary Fires ........ 93
Other Fires ............... 49
Undetermined Fires .....7
Haz Mat ................. 421
Investigations

A perfect example of why they are underpaid.....



Two Fairfax County firefighters were struck by an SUV driven by an EMS supervisor Tuesday evening as they attempted to help a cyclist who had been hit by a car. The injuries are not life threatening.


Fairfax County Fire & Rescue Department spokesman Dan Schmidt says a captain responding to the crash as EMS 401 was behind the wheel of the SUV. Engine 404 and Medic 404 from Herndon were already on the scene. The EMS 401 vehicle was described as moving slowly through the area when the collision occurred.

The incident took place near the intersection of Wiehle Avenue and Dranesville Road just before 8:00 PM.

The cyclist and one of the firefighters were flown by helicopter to Inova Fairfax Hospital. The other firefighter was taken by ground to Reston Hospital Center. Both firefighters have been treated and released. No word on the cyclist.

It is not fair you complain about their salary. It should be a pay for performance. For every fire you put out you get bonus. If you are office worker or dead beat person you have to also work the line. Cut programs that are not needed in the fire department and save good tax payer money.

you've got to be dumb as a bag of rocks (drunk rocks at that) if you seriously think the "firefighters" only fight fires, and just sit around the rest of the time.


...........................as dumb as a bag of fucking rocks. o_0

People...if you think FF's have such a gravy life become one! You bitchers made your choice. Take a leap and make a career change or STFU!

Hey whiners, do the F.D a favor and don't call when your elderly parent slips and falls and you cant lift them by yourselves, and you have no friends to help you because you are such a douche. Handle it on your own if think the F.D is such a waste....K?

You made your choice, live with it and don't hate others that you think have it a little better than you. I bet 99% of you people could not hang for 6 months on one of the busier units. I bet you cry like a little girl when your shift is working their 3rd Christmas in a row. Then just when your family comes to see you, you run a call for somebody that has a very painful hang nail....

Bunch of fucking babies! You made your bed, now sleep in it!

Seriously? Pay for performance? Go across the river and see how many fires go down over there. Translate that into taxpayer money lost, and you can get an idea how much money the FD saves the county in preventable losses. Pay for performance has no appropriae existence in emergency response.

You'd be the first to bitch when cops wrote your speeding/txtin ass a ticket because they get paid/performance.


Fucking douche

What exactly is your mother or fathers life worth? Would you put them in the ground to get $50,000?

Parents, most of you would trade your life to spare your childs.

Now, how would you treat the person who is willing to make that same sacrifice for your family and they have never laid eyes on you? How about the family they leave behind?

For fucks sake people...When will we get out of this god awful ME generation?

You guys are all idiots. I am going to take my new F-350 provided by Fairfax County and their and go drink at Old Dominion Brewery.

EMS = problEMS

Yes I am still laughing at all of you suckers!

I'm not Mark Rohr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys are all idiots. I am going to take my new
> F-350 provided by Fairfax County and their and go
> drink at Old Dominion Brewery.
>
> EMS = problEMS
>
> Yes I am still laughing at all of you suckers!
------------------------------------------------------

let me guess, you didnt pass an EMS test, right?
Attachments:

@ 300 fires,

It would be nice if we had a crystal ball, and could predict when and where those 300 fires and 400 Hazmat calls will happen. We don't, so adequate staffing and deployment are critical. In case you didn't know, the county has around 395 square miles and a million or more residents, I believe. How do you expect us to cover that amount of area with a skeleton crew?

Do you know what resources are needed for a box alarm? It takes a lot more than one or two crews to operate on the fireground. It's four engines, two trucks, a heavy rescue, a medic unit, an EMS Capt, and two BC's. Do you know what their assignments are and why? Of course you don't. You revealed your ignorance towards our department by first fixating on only fire calls and conveniently ignoring all the rest, and also including civillian personnel and all volunteers as firefighters. How can we take your opinions seriously in the face of such ignorance?

@ onlyone,

How do you propose we do pay for performance? What criteria would you use, and what weighting would you give to each category? The fire service is not like the corporate world. How would you measure performance?

@ I'm not Mark Rohr,

You're a mutt.

FTM-PTB

As far as EMS, the department doesn't see EMS as problEMS (try and be more original next time, that ones been played out many times over). They hired only medics for the 127-130th recruit schools, 12 more in the academy right now, we have two OMD's that ride in the field regularly, we have an ALS internship, our medics are compensated quite well. We have a PA, NP, BSN's and such teaching ALS interns and also our continuing education at EMSCEP. That's a lot of resources to throw at something that you say nobody wants. If it were so easy to hire medics here, they never would have implemented riding pay as a hiring and retention tool. Notice how it still hasn't gone away?

Maybe you guys are right, we should disband the FD, and hire private companies instead. We can use Wackenhut for fire suppression, and AMR or rural Metro for EMS. Good luck when two overworked, underpaid, disgruntled animals with a combined two year's experience between the both of them, on a banged up vanbulance (pulse and a patch is the way of the privates) show up and you're supposed to trust your well being and property to them. Hopefully they can have an ambulance to you in a timely fashion, since they often pull 911 units, which make no money, to do hospital interfacility transports, which do make them money.

Wackenhut has had it's share of problems as well. Google them and see for yourself.....

You can make it all volunteer. Break fairfax up into small towns.

How do you propose we go 100% volunteer? Or even combo like P-Willy, Loudon, Stafford, etc? As you can see from the 2010 stats, we have less than 300 operational volunteers. The vast majority of those volunteers are EMS only. Many of those only ride once in a blue moon, let alone once a week. Many yet are basically ghosts until an instillation dinner or annual open house comes around. The very reason we have 24/7 career staffing in all our stations is because of dwindling volunteer participation.

Look across the country. Departments start out volunteer. Then, to help out with reduced participation, they may do paid on call. Next, they hire one or two paid FF in some of their stations during the day, since the volunteers must work, and can only do nights/weekends. Then, it's FT paid staffing during the day in each of their stations. then, it's the addition of FT paid staffing at night for the stations that can't put their units in service. then, it's 24/7/365 in every station.

In addition, look at New Jersey. They have their fire service broken up into a bunch of volunteer fiefdoms. Their resources are redundant, so there's plenty of waste there, and they're also fiercely territorial. They have more than their fair share of problems, and could stand to consolidate for the good of their citizens.


What would you suggest?

EMS TECH said that most uniformed fire employees work a 56 hour schedule, that 53 out of 56 hours are straight time, those 56 hours are 40% more than the 40 hour employee, and that for every five 56 hour employee hired, the county saves having to pay benefits, days off, sick leave, medical benefits, pensions, and also hiring costs for the recruitment process, etc for two employees, assuming a 40 hour workweek.

so, the Capt I in the field, doing shift work, making 110,800 a year would be making just under 80k at 38 an hour if they only worked 40 hours a week. The LT making 91,363 a year is making 31.50 an hr, for 65k a year if working 40 hours. that basic FF topping out at 80k? 27.50 an hour, which would be 57,200 a year, after working 15 years or more to get to that point.

Remember, each employee in the field is working an additional 16 hours, mostly straight time, or in the case of a Capt and above, all straight time. Again, the county saves on hiring, benefits, retirement, etc. for two employees on every five. Also, they're getting the additional hours that replace these two employees that they don't have to hire, on straight time, not time and a half for most of those hours. The county basically gets built in per diem workers for no additional cost in hiring, training, support staff, etc.

That 110k, that 91k, that 80k, which take many years to get, don't seem so grandiose, now does it? A basic FF comes in at 48,877. That's 16.78 an hour. for a 40 hour week, that's 35k. the other 14k is forced OT, when you think about it.

Let's compare apples to apples when speaking out against firefighter salaries. 110k, or 91k, or even 80k topped out salaries, not starting salaries btw, can bring about sticker shock, until you look at the additional built in OT that's required to reach those numbers.

Work?

How is sitting around the fire house bsing with your friends, watching tv, eating free food, work?

Nice try.

They fight how many fires A YEAR? Not day, YEAR? 20? 30?

It's not like you guys are dragging babies out of burning buildings every day.

I am all for an hourly wage-FOR WORK.

Equipment checks and maitenance, housework, mandatory monthly in station powerpoint drills (several), street drills, multi company outdoor drills, 1-2 hours of mandatory physical training every day, building walk throughs and pre plans, for starters. we're not sitting on out butts goofing off al day. And all of this is in between running calls. Clifton, Gunston, etc may be slow, but the Rt on companies, anything inside the beltway, Merrifield, Tyson's etc, are quite busy. Try going to one of their stations and telling them they don't do anything all day.

What did the Navy SEALs who cornered Osama bin Laden get for pulling off such a risky mission? Their weekly paychecks.

The estimated salary for a Navy SEAL -- with over a dozen years of experience and an E-7 pay grade -- is about $54,000, according to an estimate based on data from the Department of Defense.

However, all military personnel are eligible to receive higher pay -- closer to six figures -- with additional skills, which many of the members of the team that captured bin Laden likely had.

"Each of these operations is different, but we get the same amount of pay, so it's fair," said John Scorza, MC2, under the Naval Special Warfare Command.

The base salary level is comparable to the average annual salary for teachers in the U.S., which was $55,350 for the 2009-2010 school year, according to the Digest of Education Statistics.

"Also note that military personnel may have more extensive benefits and on-base housing," said Lori Taylor, a professor at the Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University. "But they work year 'round while teachers get 2 to 3 months off in the summer."

Though Navy SEALs are usually more experienced service members, the typical graduate of SEAL qualification training is 19 to 23 years old, said Lt. Cmdr. Fred Kuebler of U.S. Special Operations Command in Tampa, Fla.

Being friends with your coworkers isn't cause the have less compensation, shit head. Don't discount the daily training, maintenance, and other public functions (school trips, station upkeep etc).


If you don't like the free food then how about you sit outside the forestation and stop the citizens who bring it? Tell them your opinions. No firefighter solicits this.

It appears "boredom" is to blame for many firefighter arsonists.....

hmmmmmmm.........


Volunteer firefighter arrested on arson charges

Tuesday, May 3, 2011

The son of a former Waldwick fire chief was arrested May 1 for allegedly setting fire to an abandoned house in Upper Saddle River, which he then reported to authorities and helped extinguish, authorities said.


Volunteers from Allendale, Ramsey, Upper Saddle River and Mahwah responded to a fire that police say caused significant damage to an abandoned house in Upper Saddle River. Police said Brian Alvarez, 23, of Ramsey, is being charged with aggravated arson and burglary for allegedly setting fire to an abandoned single family residence, which is located in and owned by Upper Saddle River.

Alvarez is the son of Waldwick residents Cathy and former Waldwick Volunteer Fire Department Chief David "Ziggy" Alvarez Sr. A woman who answered the phone at their residence Tuesday, May 3, said she had no comment.

Alvarez is an employee of the Haworth Department of Public Works and is a volunteer firefighter in Waldwick, Allendale and Haworth, police said.

A clerk at Haworth Borough Hall said Alvarez had been with the DPW for two or three years and that the governing body was expected to discuss his employment at a council meeting May 4.


Alvarez Alvarez appears to have an unlisted number and could not be reached.

According to the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, Alvarez called the Allendale Police Department at 4:28 a.m. May 1 to report a structure fire on East Crescent Avenue, which he said was either in Allendale or Ramsey. The house, at 168 East Crescent Ave., is in Upper Saddle River.

Police said Alvarez claimed he had been driving down East Crescent Avenue when he noticed the fire and, as a member of the Allendale Volunteer Fire Department, he immediately responded to the firehouse after reporting the blaze and was among the first on the scene to put it out.

Firefighters from Ramsey, Upper Saddle River and Mahwah also responded. Police said the fire caused a significant amount of damage to the house and one of the firefighters was treated at the scene for a minor knee injury.

Police said area fire departments had used the abandon house to conduct drills and an investigation concluded that Alvarez had participated in those drills and knew the house was abandoned.

Waldwick Fire Chief Ken Warr said that the Waldwick Fire Department had not held drills at the house.

Police said the fire was immediately deemed suspicious because it occurred in an abandoned structure without working utilities. The Bergen County Arson Squad determined that the fire was intentionally set in multiple areas in the rear of the house, both inside and outside, authorities said.

Police are also investigating other occasions when Alvarez has reported a fire; they say he has called in vehicle and brush fires in several other towns.

Alvarez was charged with aggravated arson, a second degree crime; arson, a third degree crime; and burglary, a third degree crime. He is being held at the Bergen County Jail on $75,000 bail with no 10 percent option. He is expected to appear in Upper Saddle River Municipal Court for arraignment at 5:30 p.m. May 10.

Maureen Parenta, a spokeswoman for the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, did not return several calls May 3. It could not be determined whether Alvarez has retained an attorney.

Warr said Tuesday, May 3, that Alvarez will be suspended from the department until the conclusion of the investigation.

"They are a very nice, religious and spiritual family," Waldwick Mayor Russell Litchult said in an interview May 3. "I was surprised. Sometimes kids do stupid things and I guess this is one of them."

Several members of the Waldwick Volunteer Fire Department who were asked for reaction declined to comment and did not want to be named.

E-mail: weinberger@northjersey.com

The son of a former Waldwick fire chief was arrested May 1 for allegedly setting fire to an abandoned house in Upper Saddle River, which he then reported to authorities and helped extinguish, authorities said.

Police said Brian Alvarez, 23, of Ramsey, is being charged with aggravated arson and burglary for allegedly setting fire to an abandoned single family residence, which is located in and owned by Upper Saddle River.

Alvarez is the son of Waldwick residents Cathy and former Waldwick Volunteer Fire Department Chief David "Ziggy" Alvarez Sr. A woman who answered the phone at their residence Tuesday, May 3, said she had no comment.

Alvarez is an employee of the Haworth Department of Public Works and is a volunteer firefighter in Waldwick, Allendale and Haworth, police said.

A clerk at Haworth Borough Hall said Alvarez had been with the DPW for two or three years and that the governing body was expected to discuss his employment at a council meeting May 4.

Alvarez appears to have an unlisted number and could not be reached.

According to the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, Alvarez called the Allendale Police Department at 4:28 a.m. May 1 to report a structure fire on East Crescent Avenue, which he said was either in Allendale or Ramsey. The house, at 168 East Crescent Ave., is in Upper Saddle River.

Police said Alvarez claimed he had been driving down East Crescent Avenue when he noticed the fire and, as a member of the Allendale Volunteer Fire Department, he immediately responded to the firehouse after reporting the blaze and was among the first on the scene to put it out.

Firefighters from Ramsey, Upper Saddle River and Mahwah also responded. Police said the fire caused a significant amount of damage to the house and one of the firefighters was treated at the scene for a minor knee injury.

Police said area fire departments had used the abandon house to conduct drills and an investigation concluded that Alvarez had participated in those drills and knew the house was abandoned.

Waldwick Fire Chief Ken Warr said that the Waldwick Fire Department had not held drills at the house.

Police said the fire was immediately deemed suspicious because it occurred in an abandoned structure without working utilities. The Bergen County Arson Squad determined that the fire was intentionally set in multiple areas in the rear of the house, both inside and outside, authorities said.

Police are also investigating other occasions when Alvarez has reported a fire; they say he has called in vehicle and brush fires in several other towns.

Alvarez was charged with aggravated arson, a second degree crime; arson, a third degree crime; and burglary, a third degree crime. He is being held at the Bergen County Jail on $75,000 bail with no 10 percent option. He is expected to appear in Upper Saddle River Municipal Court for arraignment at 5:30 p.m. May 10.

Maureen Parenta, a spokeswoman for the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, did not return several calls May 3. It could not be determined whether Alvarez has retained an attorney.

Warr said Tuesday, May 3, that Alvarez will be suspended from the department until the conclusion of the investigation.

"They are a very nice, religious and spiritual family," Waldwick Mayor Russell Litchult said in an interview May 3. "I was surprised. Sometimes kids do stupid things and I guess this is one of them."

Several members of the Waldwick Volunteer Fire Department who were asked for reaction declined to comment and did not want to be named.

How doesthat babble relate to Fairfax? Has a Fairfax firefighter EVER been charged with arson?

@ firefighters as arsonists

WTF is the point?

Get the volunteer coordinator to fix it and increase number of volunteers. Hold him under the fire to it. Save money or cut him. Make the coordinators firefighters too if they could pass test.

You didn't factor in the housing and chow hall food that is free. Im not nor will ever knock the military, but they also dont pay for benefits...

just in case you havent noticed
Attachments:

volunteersolution,

So what do you do sir? Other than sit at home an play on this site. Did a firefighter make you mad? Are you a volunteer firefighter that want to be a paid figherfighter but could not make the cut?

You need people willing to volunteer in order for a volunteer initiative to work. If that were possible, we'd be a combination department such as P-William, Loudon, Stafford, etc. In case you haven't noticed, it's a little expensive to live in Fairfax, and people need to work, so they can't spend time volunteering for free when they need to pay the bills, and probably need to hold a part time job rather than volunteer. the Local would never allow that, either. We have our jobs because volunteers aren't available, nor are they reliable to consistently staff their pieces.

As far as that arson post, that was a volunteer FF. I don't know of any instances of career FF's setting fires. Volunteer "hiring" standards can be less than that of paid FF's in many cases. You can get all kinds of whackers and nut jobs depending on where you work. To get hired as career we need to pass an entrance exam, CPAT, full medical, psych test and eval by a psychiatrist, and a polygraph (or two) given by a detective. We also need to pass an annual timed work performance test where we gear up, go on air, and complete a series of physically demanding tasks. If you fail, you're taken out of the field. Volunteers are not held to the same standard in Fairfax. It's part of the reason for all those Line Of Duty Deaths due to cardiac causes in volunteers. Also, they participate in hardly any of the training that is mandatory for career personnel. It's hard to tell someone who volunteers every other week, or once a month if you're lucky to show up for training uncompensated.

When I'm at the station, I'm "working," whether or not we're on a call. If I'm not in my own bed at home, with no responsibility to respond to a tone, then I'm working, and that needs to be compensated for. The employer can't have it both ways with the paid on call system. If you want coverage, you have to compensate for it.

And yes, this is very much a troll thread. I haven't seen anyone give any intelligent, credible counterpoints to my posts. Just the same, I don't want citizens getting misinformation about my department and what we do from people with no life and nothing better to do.

Fairfax County FRD EMS Tech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You need people willing to volunteer in order for
> a volunteer initiative to work. If that were
> possible, we'd be a combination department such as
> P-William, Loudon, Stafford, etc. In case you
> haven't noticed, it's a little expensive to live
> in Fairfax, and people need to work, so they can't
> spend time volunteering for free when they need to
> pay the bills, and probably need to hold a part
> time job rather than volunteer. the Local would
> never allow that, either. We have our jobs because
> volunteers aren't available, nor are they reliable
> to consistently staff their pieces.
>
> As far as that arson post, that was a volunteer
> FF. I don't know of any instances of career FF's
> setting fires. Volunteer "hiring" standards can be
> less than that of paid FF's in many cases. You can
> get all kinds of whackers and nut jobs depending
> on where you work. To get hired as career we need
> to pass an entrance exam, CPAT, full medical,
> psych test and eval by a psychiatrist, and a
> polygraph (or two) given by a detective. We also
> need to pass an annual timed work performance test
> where we gear up, go on air, and complete a series
> of physically demanding tasks. If you fail, you're
> taken out of the field. Volunteers are not held to
> the same standard in Fairfax. It's part of the
> reason for all those Line Of Duty Deaths due to
> cardiac causes in volunteers. Also, they
> participate in hardly any of the training that is
> mandatory for career personnel. It's hard to tell
> someone who volunteers every other week, or once a
> month if you're lucky to show up for training
> uncompensated.
>
> When I'm at the station, I'm "working," whether or
> not we're on a call. If I'm not in my own bed at
> home, with no responsibility to respond to a tone,
> then I'm working, and that needs to be compensated
> for. The employer can't have it both ways with the
> paid on call system. If you want coverage, you
> have to compensate for it.
>
> And yes, this is very much a troll thread. I
> haven't seen anyone give any intelligent, credible
> counterpoints to my posts. Just the same, I don't
> want citizens getting misinformation about my
> department and what we do from people with no life
> and nothing better to do.


Some of us actually get where you are coming from and appreciate what you do. Don't let the losers with stupid remarks fool you into thinking all of us agree. I just got tired of the idiotic ranting and stopped reading the thread.

I hope I never need to call for your help again, but when I have in the past FX has been totally awesome in their response. It's part of why I still live in this expensive place.

I get where you are too. Just trying to think of ways to better help the county and do the most good for the most people. I take it my idea is no good.

You take it correctly.

It's impossibly easy to say "just have people do it for free!!"


Try to implement that in any job, in any industry, at any time.


Unless of course it's YOUR house on fire, or YOUR fatass having the heart attack, or YOUR female-Chinese ass stuck in a car accident. THEN, maybe you'd work for free.

Pr. George's Firefighter Arrested in Arson Plot


By Aaron C. Davis
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 14, 2008; 3:15 PM

The Prince George's County fire department arrested one of its own last night, alleging that a veteran county firefighter stopped on his way to work and ignited a blaze two weeks ago that he and others were soon called out to fight.

County fire investigators say Michael D. Murphy, 42, of the 400 block of Cross Creek Dr. in Huntingtown, stopped at a Langley Park area Asian Carry Out on Nov. 1, walked behind the restaurant and lighted a stack of boxes and newspapers. He then drove to the county's Chillum-Adelphi Fire/EMS Station, where the call came in minutes later to respond to the blaze, which was extinguished before the building was destroyed, fire officials said.

Murphy was caught on the restaurant's security camera, said Mark Brady, a spokesman for the department. He was charged last night with first-degree and second-degree arson, as well as malicious burning. All three are felonies, and Murphy is being held in the county's jail on $150,000 bond.

A message left at Murphy's home was not immediately returned.

"He was caught in the act, almost, on a store security camera

Can you make more CERT volunteer firefighters? Some already have gone on to do that. That is a good pool to recruit from. CERT and volunteer firefighters fall under the same coordinator at the fire department.

To expand. Not saying to do away with paid people. Just trying to expand the fire force even more.

"make" a "volunteer" be a firefighter? Those who want to, do. Those who don't, won't. While the spirit of volunteerism is healthy in the CERTS, it's not likely that you can force them into the firefighting ranks.


Defeats the purpose of volunteering, don't it?

Are there many cases of doctors trying to kill people so that they can then revive them?

It is crazy the number of firefighters who are arsonists.

Where do they find the time if they are so busy all day???

Volunteeri I think you got that wrong. CERT might be good to get them to be VOLUNTEER firefighters. Not force them. CERT volunteers might not know their potential. I think one of the instructors is going to EMS school as we speak.

EMS school is only one component of what it takes to be a functional firefighter in this county. Don't forget the hazmat, suppression, fire behavior, emergency driving, fire tactics, building construction/destruction, vehicle rescue, etc etc etc.

You people have no idea what it takes to supply a county this large in terms of land and population with an effective fire department.

Your point is well taken. Send this thread to your public affairs officers and tell them that the general public can use some education. The public knows the great things you guys and women do to put out a fire. That is no question. Everyone knows and respects that. It is really what it takes that seems the world underestimates. You should do a video. A day or week or month in the life. Another that shows all the training you need and renewals. Keep up the good work. What seems like some trolls is not, just clueless folks you bump into at Giant.

ok, I'm officially confused cause we already have volunteers in Ffx Co............

http://www.fcvfra.org/

I dont think it should be one way or the other - and I pray to God that there is no animosity between Volunteers and paid figherfighters - it should all be one big happy, y'know?

For the most part it is. However you always have bad apples on both sides of the fence. When the rubber meats the road, everyone usually plays along nicely. However, if it were my house on fire, I'd want the paid professionals who train more regularly, and are held to stricter standards of work and conduct.

can anybody here actually prove that the volunteers dont train as much, or arent held to the same standards as the paid firefighters

Cause I dont necessarily believe that's the case - that Fairfax wouldnt hold ALL firefighters to the same level, regardless of status - so does anybody have any actual proof on that?

The proof exists in the records at the Massey building. You can FOIA all the training records, rules and regulations, man hours and everything. The fact is that the career people DO train more often and regularly. But like I said, all those records are publically available at request.

Let's apply some logic:
The typical day of work in the core station includes at least one hour of physical training, at least two hours of drills, training, maintenance, preplanning and other business necessary to operate. This is EVERY day.

The volunteers are great. They provide a good service and they're very well intentioned. Thy DO put in the same hours, albeit on weekends over the course of many more months than a career recruit would on a Monday through Friday schedule, to achieve the same basic/MINIMUM certificTions and training. However, beyond that only a very few volunteers ride regularly enough to maintain and grow their Knowledge and skill base.

Not to mention, the career folks practice, look back and learn from live emergencies they run on a day to day basis.

Imagine a doctor who went to medical school, graduated 10 years ago, and has seen about 50 patients since, because he does it barely part time. Now imagine another doctor who went trough the same program 3 years ago, who has worked since the day after he graduated, seeing over 1,000 patients.
Who would you want to be your doctor?

And the doctor as a volunteer is not required to do bingo.

ROFLMFAOIMHO

I was a FF/Medic in Fx Co 15 yr ago with 10 yr of duty (and LOTS of it). The career/vol medics were equally well trained and the performance seemed even as well - You either know the job or you don't. Same with the firefighters - its not rocket science. 99% of the bitching is due to personal conflicts and often originating with union types pushing their bullshit agenda. I know similarly trained personnel in New England making $35k and happy for it. The salaries, benes, OT and other perks FxCo gives out is ridiculous - the work can be and would be done for half the cost if it were not for the politics. The county ought to consider a pilot program for outsourcing fire/ems to a private contractor.

Optimally, the best system is a Volunteer run organization with career administrators and contracted personnel supplementing volunteer professionals. Keeps it local, thrifty and community centered and FREE from union/political scamming. This model has succeeded in the past and does still today - Tho Fx would be a tough hybrid to crack

I may have been wrong to say I was wrong. Mark agreed with me. And he worked there. So there. Try the model.

Fire Department Volunteer Coordinator step up and propose something. Save taxpayers millions or who knows what jobs will be on the line next. Bring back the former volunteer coordinator who still volunteers with the fire department. I dont know his name, but he would be great to fill volunteer coordinators office with volunteers.

Posted by: Foia ()
Date: May 06, 2011 10:40AM

The proof exists in the records at the Massey building. You can FOIA all the training records, rules and regulations, man hours and everything. The fact is that the career people DO train more often and regularly. But like I said, all those records are publically available at request.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you know, if places like Burke or Fairfax had more houses burnt to the ground than Station or Oakton, then yeah - I'd believe this "Volunteers suck compared to Employees" thesis.

But that just doesn't seem to be true.


And to cop out, tell me to go to the Massey building and look thru files, etc. - well that's kinda a lame way to try to prove yr case.

In a county as liability conscious as Fairfax, I'd find it hard to believe they would allow some fire companies to be (as you theorize) less professional or be less able to do the job as other companies.

So the outrage is that they do not give volunteer firefighters more training? I agree with Gordon. At the end of the day, the fire is out or the hurt or sick person is brought to the hospital. Thank you to both paid and volunteers. Same case holds up for the police. Thank you to them also. More proof is with EMS and FIRE. They are together. Some places they are separate. Here they are together and proves how well they do.

@volunteersolution, the reason that volunteers receive less training is that they're simply around less. Career personnel have a mandatory monthly online training matrix to follow. For example, it can be something like powerpoints on single family dwelling engine ops, a close call or Line Of Duty Death, Metro Rail Ops, and an EMS drill. In addition, we'll have mandatory company ops, such as deploying certain hose lines, or how to set up a stokes basket from a tower ladder. There are also milti company drills (MUD Drills for short), where several units from a Battalion go out of service for 4-8 hours and maybe burn a house, do the flashover simulator at the academy, practice RIT procedures (FF rescue), foam ops, etc. In addition to that, we have three OARS sessions - Operational Academy Rotations. These include Blood Borne Pathogens, more company ops, inservices on new equipment, etc. We also do walkthroughs of neighborhoods, bisiness parks, high rises, etc. on duty. Medics do three eight hour days every year at our Tyson's facility for EMS education/training by our Pa's, NP's, BSN's, and EMS LT's. Medics also do in station drills and monthly EMS education articles for credit.

The volunteers get together once in a while to do some training, and their member participation is hit or miss. They have access to the same training matrix we do, and are welcome to our drills. They're simply not putting their units inservice often enough to be available for the same amount of training that the 24/7 career staff do. Our volunteer structure is not like that of PG county, where they have live ins. It is also not like Stafford, Loudon, or Prince William, where they have enough members that they can fully staff their houses at night most of the time, with the career personnel only needing to be staffed in the daytime.

Most of our volunteer engines go inservice on the weekends only. We rarely see them during the week. Our engines are ALS (paramedic), theirs are usually not. The ambulances are staffed a little more often, but are not medic staffed, only basic EMT for the most part. As such, it's necessary for the county to staff each house 24/7 with fully staffed career units. If it were possible to get adequate volunteer participation, we would have a system similar to Stafford, Loudon, etc.

If we did have a more plentiful volunteer presence, I'd prefer that they upstaff our units first, rather than put extra units in service. Rural areas may have only two FF's on each apparatus, three if they're lucky. Big departments like FDNY have 5 or 6 on the truck, and 4-5 on the engine. We're in the middle with 3 on the truck and four on the engine. The public typically doesn't realize the amount of manpower that's needed on a structure fire. We have around 30 people that are on the first alarm. If each unit only has three people or so, fireground tasks progress much more slowly. Volunteers could help us achieve safe staffing levels, and also cut back on OT.

Relying more on volunteers than paid personnel isn't working too well for PG county. They use a single pull system due to lack of staffing. They leave their gear in the middle of the floor, and jump on one piece to do a call. The other apparatus remain at the station. When they get a large incident, they always call us and other counties as well to fil their stations since all of theirs are tied up.

The volunteers are not less professional than career personnel. They get the same initial training. It's the ongoing training and the relative lack of experience that may become a problem. If we're working ten (24 hour) days a month and the volunteers are working 2-4 12 hour shifts a month (if that in some cases), who's going to get more experience and be able to do more training? In some volunteer houses, there are members that only show for instillation dinners, the annual open house, and some occasional bingo, but that's about it. Houses like 414 (Burke) and 422 (Springfield) do get out more often than the rest. 421 (Fair Oaks) does okay as well.

I don't see it as logistically possible to get enough of a volunteer population, that can do the same training and put in a sufficient amount of work hours to be comparable to the career staff, while being responsible for coverage for 300 some odd square miles ans one million residents, along with all the transient traffic. In my experience, career departments expand their membership because the volunteer participation has declined for some time. I've never seen it go in the other direction. Again, a dept usually starts as 100% volunteer, theyget some coverage issues so they offer paid on call to get better particpation, then they have to hire a small core career staff, maybe for certain stations to upstaff a few spots, then it's FT paid crews in the daytime for a few stations, then it's FT paid for all of them, then a few have to go to 24/7 career coverage (P-William), and then it's 24/7 career in every station (here) with a small volunteer contingent. The increased career presence comes about as a metter of necessity. Volunteer Chiefs can be fiercely territorial, and don't generally like giving up their control to career staff if it isn't forced upon them.

LOL
Attachments:

Whyare you guys so FAT if you are working out so much?

I don't think there is any way I could be a firefighter. After the first auto accident call with an injured or dead child I'd be done.

Hey Idoubtit. They are not firefighters in that office. The coordinator just liasions not fights fires.

Lifeguarding in OC is totally lucrative; some make over $200k

May 10th, 2011, 5:32 pm · 6 Comments · posted by Brian Calle

When thinking about career options with high salaries, lifeguarding is probably not one of the first jobs to come to mind. But it apparently should. In one of Orange County’s most desirable beach destinations, Newport Beach, lifeguards are compensated all too well; especially compared with the county annual median household income of $71,735.

It might be time for a career change.

According to a city report on lifeguard pay for the calendar year 2010, of the 14 full-time lifeguards, 13 collected more than $120,000 in total compensation; one lifeguard collected $98,160.65. More than half the lifeguards collected more than $150,000 for 2010 with the two highest-paid collecting $211,451 and $203,481 in total compensation respectively. Even excluding benefits like health care and pension, more than half the lifeguards receive a total salary, including overtime pay, exceeding $100,000. And they also receive an annual allowance of $400 for “Sun Protection.” Many work four days a week, 10 hours a day.

Lifeguarding in Newport Beach is a pretty good gig, if you can get it.

There is no denying that lifeguards protect swimmers and play a vital safety role in protecting numerous beachgoers every year. In 2010, the total number of rescues by Newport Beach lifeguards was 2,190. Even so, these salaries seem too generous, and the compensation levels don’t appear fiscally sane.

Currently, Newport Beach has 13 full-time active lifeguards and hires about 210 seasonal and part-time “tower” guards, Newport Beach City Manager David Kiff told us. Lifeguards are organized as part of the fire department. The Lifeguard Management Association represents the 13 full-time, salaried employees in collective bargaining with the city whereas the Association of Newport Beach Ocean Lifeguards represents the part-time, seasonal lifeguards.

In a phone conversation, Brent Jacobsen, president of the Lifeguard Management Association, defended the lifeguard pay in Newport Beach: “We have negotiated very fair and very reasonable salaries in conjunction with comparable positions and other cities up and down the coast.” “Lifeguard salaries here are well within the norm of other city employees.” And therein is the problem: Local public worker pay has become all too generous and out of line with private sector equivalents.

On face, the compensation packages for these guards are staggering. But take into consideration the retirement benefits being paid to currently retired lifeguards and lifeguards who will retire at these pay levels in the future and the problem is further compounded. Lifeguards are able to retire with 90 percent of their salary, after only 30 years of work at as early as the age of 50.

A YouTube video created by Americans for Prosperity-California, an education advocacy organization concerned with limited government, lower taxation, and free-market principles, outlined how in Newport Beach a “recently retired lifeguard, age 51, receives a government retirement of over $108,000 per year for the rest of his life.” The video also notes that “He will make well over $3 million in retirement if he lives to age 80!”

The Newport Beach City Council – as well as other beach cities – ought to take a hard look at reforming the pay scale and compensation for lifeguards as well as the way in which the department is organized. This is a reasonable starting point for applying some fiscal sanity to public employee compensation.

yeah, union - Newport Beach lifeguards have a LOT to do with Fairfax County.........

for the record, a year-around beach lifeguard working at a Worldwide vacation hotspot prolly have to be top-notch, not Walmart grade as you'd prefer. Since just one drowning could have MILLIONS of dollars impact on their tourism industry.

Not a sermon, just a thought

LoLz

For $200,000, you could hire three guards and cover the same times as much area and give the taxpayers a pbargain. At a certain point, people are only worth so much. How much can a person really bring to a job?

Unless they were fighter pilots or nucelar engineers, I just don't see the need to pay a lifeguard that much. There should be a cap. Sorry, Gordon, you are really off on this one.

When one is informed of a position that makes a certain amount, there just shouldn't be eyebrows going up. The process should be a little more open and accountable. I don't blame the people getting those salaries, I blame the Administrators/Supervisors who let them get out of hand.

Every politicians doesn't want to look like they are against Emergency Services or Teachers. The Unions pay a lot of money that it remains that way, too. The system seems to be broken in some areas but its a tough problem to fix. If it was easy, it would have been fixed already.

Seriously? How much work do you see fighter pilots doing anymore? When the fuck was there an air-to-air war with the need for an fighter pilot?

There really is no such thing as a pure fighter pilot any more. Every combatant "fighter" aircraft in the U.S. arsenal has significant air to ground capabilities.

The days of F14s and F15s as pure air superiority fighters are gone.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

They should advertise the volunteer coordinator positions and people like Gordon should apply. Serious that it would bring new vision to the program. CERT tried to have vision but leadership team the coordinator created fell to pieces. Know one wants to be pushed to man a booth. That is not why they take CERT. Good program. No follow through.

@Bazilly - you have no idea what you are talking about - 3 ppl for NINE MILES, eh?

learn a little:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-adv-newport-lifeguards-20110424,0,4701442.story

I'm not saying that they shouldnt do what they need to do to trim their budget - I'm just saying that it's kinda stupid to "bargin-basement" the personnel that are your there to save lives. And to answer your question "How much can a person really bring to a job?", I'd wonder if you'd ask that when yr half a mile from shore and saltwater starts filling yr lungs?


@volunteer - you dont want me being a firefighter. I tend to run OUT of buildings that are in flames LoLz

Current Volunteer coordinator would to and should. They are coordinators not firefighters. YOu honetly would be good for it. Good people skills and care.

Im not going to go through all the Work to satisfy your curiosity on how much career vs volunteers train. You're the one who wants to know, it's your right to know, so go find out. It's not hard. It's not a cop out to refer you to the correct resource. It is a cop out to botch about not having someone do your leg work on FFU.

Today, there are multiple units out training, every one of them career staffed. Dozens and dozens of employees practicing. Where are the volunteers? O ya... Theyre at their jobs working, non fire department related. It's not complaining, or a knock against them; it's just fact.

volunteersolution Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Current Volunteer coordinator would to and should.
> They are coordinators not firefighters. YOu
> honetly would be good for it. Good people skills
> and care.


---------------------------------

thank you :)

Now that is what I am talkin bout. Real people who can do the job.

I forgot to mention,that while we get a pension, and the DROP if we choose (the county stops paying into our pension fund at this point, as do we), there are a few important points to mention:

We still pay into social security, unlike some other organizations with defined benefit (pension) plans. We pay this for our entire working lives, just like you do. The joke's on us, though. When we reach the SS retirement age, we can start collecting our monthly benefit. But we never see that check, that expected bump in our income. What happens is that the county reduces our pension benefit dollar for dollar by what we would get from social security. So, we pay into the system for our entire working lives, but the county gets that benefit instead of us. A good number of us have worked in other places before coming to the county, and were paying into SS and such beforehand. All of that which was taxed goes towards that benefit which the county takes in exchange for our pension.

Also, we do have deferred comp, similar to a 401k, but with no contributions. This is understandable, since we get a pension benefit. Workers who don't get a pension will ususlly have a 401k, and it will typically have an employer match. The county doesn't do this, since it instead contributes to the pesion.

So, it may seem like we have it too good with a pension and the DROP. I'll say that a guaranteed pension is more desireable than a 401k type retirement alone, since many aren't able to contribute enough to do well in retirement. The DROP doesn't cost the county any more than it would if we were to simply work for those three years w/o a DROP, for the reasons I've outlined earlier in the thread. The benefits are great, but not as lavish as it would seem when compared to a 40k style w/ match, having us work 40 hour weeks instead of 56 and paying more in hiring, extra personnel, extra pensions, etc. We'll never see a return on our SS/FICA contributions since the county gets it instead.

Volunteers - Why is it acceptable to have to depend on volunteer firefighters and volunteer EMT/paramedics? Why not volunteer police officers? Volunteer sanitation? Volunteer teachers? Volunteer doctors and nurses? Volunteers are definitely useful and I appreciate what they do, but why is it acceptable to demand that they replace paid professionals? Why fire and EMS and not police, nurses, doctors, VDOT employees, etc? True, there used to be volunteer police. They were known as a posse back in the day in the midwest and such. Doctors and nurses volunteer for natural disasters sometimes, and do humanitarian work in other countries. Some people choose to deposit their garbage at the dump.I don't see people chipping in for snow plows, or building their own roads; the state handles that. The reason professional police, nurses, doctors, sanitation workers, and so on are the norm is because there came a time that the volunteer commitment fell way behind the needs of the community. Fire and EMS is no different.

I think I saw him today.

Fairfaxunderground rules: Lilliputions, not ok. Midgettville ok. I got it now.
Attachments:

I think I saw him today

Fairfaxunderground rules: Lilliputions, not ok. Midgettville ok. I got it now.

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I saw him today


Yeah, we heard you the first time. Dumbass.

How is the pupusa truck business today?

If that was today, then that he was a she (Edith E.), that's an on duty Battalion Chief's vehicle not a take home car, and that might be an Alexandria city box, not Loudon county where the Chief in question was seen.

Almost 9,000 CalPERS retirees get $100,000 a year
By Phillip Reese


Sacramento Bee

Posted: 06/01/2011 10:30:35 AM PDT



The $100,000 pension club is growing fast.

Almost 9,000 retirees in the California Public Employees' Retirement System receive at least $100,000 in annual benefits, more than quadruple the number getting that much during 2005, according to a Sacramento Bee review of CalPERS data.

Collectively, these pensioners will receive about $1.1 billion in benefits this year -- roughly triple the general fund budget of the Sacramento City Unified School District.

Such payouts are a hot topic as leaders float competing pension reform plans at the state Capitol. Those who want to curtail big pensions say they are a root cause of huge unfunded liabilities -- and the growing pension bill presented each year to taxpayers. Others say large pensions are straw men brandished as a tool to cut the modest benefits of most government workers.

"The outliers are driving the discussion," said Steve Maviglio, a spokesman for Californians for Retirement Security, a union consortium. "It's frustrating."

The rapid growth in the number of $100,000 pensions is largely a consequence of enhanced retirement benefits approved by local and state governments during the last decade. Tens of thousands of public safety workers, for instance, can retire at age 50 and get most of their annual salary for life.

Because the enhanced benefits are only a decade old, there's a snowball effect: More six-figure pensioners are entering the system than leaving it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Government salaries also rose quickly during the last decade, pushing benefits higher. The average pay of active CalPERS members jumped 20 percent from 2004 to 2009, much faster than the inflation rate, CalPERS figures show.

"That's the other issue: Some folks are being paid disproportionately high salaries," said Brad Barber, a finance professor and pension expert at UC Davis.

Six-figure pensions -- and pensions of all amounts -- could become more common as a tide of workers reaches retirement age. "(It's) certainly linked to the baby boomers retiring," said CalPERS spokesman Brad Pacheco.

Pensions are typically paid using investment returns, employee contributions and taxpayer money. State employees contribute to their pensions, but some local government employees don't.

Six-figure pensions are not bankrupting the system, or eating up most benefits. They constitute about 2 percent of all CalPERS beneficiaries and about 8 percent of benefit payments. The average annual pension for all who retired last year is $38,000; for those who retired with at least 25 years of service, it's about $61,000.

Additionally, investment losses during the recession affected CalPERS's unfunded liabilities more than the rise in $100,000 pensions, actuarial reports show.

But the public and its elected leaders need to flag big pension payouts, Barber said, especially if the growth of such payouts continues at a rapid pace. "I think it does make sense as we move forward to think about capping benefits for the highest wage earners," he said.

Republicans negotiating with Gov. Jerry Brown have demanded that pension reform be part of any deal to approve his plan to ask voters for state tax extensions. In April, Brown released pension changes he would support, but more substantive changes, including a pension cap, were listed as "under development." Failing such a deal, reform advocates could seek a ballot initiative to instill a cap and other reforms.

About 70 percent of Californians support capping pensions, according to a recent University of Southern California/Los Angeles Times poll.

Maviglio said government workers and unions, tired of hearing about huge payouts, are willing to talk about eliminating abuse in the system. They're agreeable to reforms that would target so-called "pension spiking," which involves inflating final salaries to earn big lifetime benefits.

"There's enormous frustration among the rank and file that the few are benefiting greatly," Maviglio said. "Their benefits might impact everyone else."

But many six-figure pensioners accrued their benefits honestly, and deserve them, including police officers and firefighters, Maviglio said. "People who put their lives on the line every day deserve a secure retirement," he said.

That caveat could matter greatly. A big chunk of $100,000 pensioners are former public safety workers -- due to their relatively high salaries and comparatively generous pension packages.

Cops and firefighters are such a large presence on the $100,000 pension list that they skew it in a couple of little-known ways.

For instance, almost two-thirds of six-figure CalPERS pensioners were employed by local governments, not the state -- partially a reflection that many cops and firefighters work for cities or counties.

Also, 85 percent of the six-figure pensioners in the CalPERS system are men, The Bee's review found. That's because most firefighters, cops and high-level government managers are male.

The numbers reflect the need for governments to encourage and recruit more women into management and public safety professions, said Patty Bellasalma, president of the California Chapter of the National Organization for Women. Higher salaries for some professions are also warranted, she said.

The average pay for California teachers last year was $68,000; the average pay for correctional officers, including overtime, was $74,500, state data show.

"Prison guards with a high school diploma make more than teachers with a college (diploma) or a master's degree," she said. "This is fundamentally wrong in a gender sense and in a successful society sense."

Disparities aside, a number of factors such as salary growth and hiring patterns will determine whether six-figure pensions continue to grow rapidly. "When this may plateau is difficult to assess," Pacheco said.

But the clearest indication that six-figure pensions will spike again is the sheer number of highly paid workers nearing retirement age.

About 18,000 local public safety and California Highway Patrol officers in the Cal-PERS system were 45 or older in 2009, the latest state figures show. Most can retire at age 50 and get 3 percent of their highest pay for every year they worked, usually up to 90 percent.

Their average pay: $108,000.

The cost of living is much higher in coastal California than it is in Northern Virginia, generally speaking. Their salaries are going to be higher, and so will their pensions. They're also a collective bargaining state, unlike us. Here in Fairfax, if the fire department budget was unrealistically high, we would see layoffs reduction in service, and possibly salary reductions as well. We almost had layoffs in 2009, but the BOS and the County Executive worked to avoid that.

That is right on the money. No layoffs. Is that right? Some layoffs are good like deadwood. Cut volunteer coordinators. Let the volunteers manage it or the station captains.

@gotdatright - seems there needs to be co-ordination between paid and vol firefighters - doesnt sound like 'deadwood' to me.

"Prison guards with a high school diploma make more than teachers with a college (diploma) or a master's degree," she said. "This is fundamentally wrong in a gender sense and in a successful society sense."

Another woman crying foul because "men" are getting paid more than her. She's using stereotypes to make her case against genderism (another stereotype). What a fucking cunt.

WOMEN are prison guards too. And MEN are teachers (with masters/phd's) too.

If I saw this cunt walking down the street I'd rape her and tie her to the kitchen sink for all eternity.

The reason Ffx FRD has so few volunteers is.because the paid staff chases them out of the county. The first thing I hear when I identify as a Batt 4 volly to someone from Loudoun or Stafford OS , "Run a lot of Bingo, then?" I have seen a lot of good works done by the paid staff, but I've seen a lot of questionable behavior, and have been addressed by individuals of significant rank as "Who the fuck are you?" while I was in uniform at the station I work Bingo to pay the mortgage on. Whining about the absence of volunteers as a justification for paid FF/EMT-P jobs doesn't work, since the system in place is inherently hostile to volunteers, ESPECIALLY recruits and rookies who don't have access to all that fancy training and preceptorship described above.

Amen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Prison guards with a high school diploma make
> more than teachers with a college (diploma) or a
> master's degree," she said. "This is fundamentally
> wrong in a gender sense and in a successful
> society sense."
>
> Another woman crying foul because "men" are
> getting paid more than her. She's using
> stereotypes to make her case against genderism
> (another stereotype). What a fucking cunt.
>
> WOMEN are prison guards too. And MEN are teachers
> (with masters/phd's) too.
>
> If I saw this cunt walking down the street I'd
> rape her and tie her to the kitchen sink for all
> eternity.

---------------------------------------------------

wow..........................what an asshole.

Also, police volunteers = Fairfax PD Auxiliaries. You've probably trained with these individuals at least once.

Gordon,
You don't find it irritating that these "experts" conveniently apply a double standard for their own special interests?

The only thing the cop volunteers are for is to manage some traffic at events. Nothing more.

When was the last time a volunteer cop ever made an arrest or citation in this county? Do they even have enforcement capacity? They may as well be a DOT service.

FRD Volunteers can (yet rarely) be functional units that provide emergency responses for EMS, fire, and rescue incidents.

@DEER - yeah, they always do :(

@Police Vol - you are nuts if you think that's all they do

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/reports/reports2007/120607aporecruitment.htm

Gordon you are right but why cant captain do that not deadwood extra people. Could save county easy $200K by the time you are done with salaries, benefits, try to look cool volunteer liason fire jackets. How much you think they cost.

Ah.. love reading the logic of some of the career firefighters on this thread. As a vol I have close to 1000 hours of Riding/Training time this year. I work a fulltime job and completed medic school - unpaid. I ride weeknights - THEN go into work the next day while you sleep. I ride/train weekends while you are probably on your 4 day. Man would I love to work 10 days a month.

Dont get me wrong - we have some incredible career firefighers/medics in the county. But we also have utter crap. Yes... same for the volunteers. I have been all over the country on work related assignments - everyone knows about Fairfax. You cant just lump all the volunteers into the same category. I took the same promotional exams to get to my rank as you. The volunteer entry level firefighter goes through the same course as a career FF - albeit on nights/weekends outside of their normal work schedules! I bust my ass to ensure I always know what I am doing any time of day under any conditions to serve the citizens of Fairfax County (and mutual aide runs) and I dont get paid for it.

Hey asshat,

Do you want a fucking medal for all the work you do?

Shut your fucking trap.

Volunteers rarely run calls, the majority of the time you guys come to the station just to hang out while the career staff runs the calls. Granted it's not all the time, but it is the majority. And if you want to talk about horrible how about this. There is a volunteer who lived, yes LIVED at the firehouse for well over a year. Yes he had a job and a vehicle but he decided he did not want to pay to live somewhere. How's that for a waste of your tax dollars?

Ok, I declare this thread dead. Now Shut TFU. the 300k Chief has retired. He was working two jobs. Lots of Firefighters work 2 jobs or they work lots of Overtime. So, in addition to the 56 hours a week we work, we work an additional 24-48 hours a week so we can afford to buy a house, raise our kids, and hopefully send them to college so they don't have to work as hard as we did. Not to mention put their lives on the line to save others. Thanks Chief BC401. Good luck.

so how much is one life saved?

I love how when times were good no one gave a rats ass to what public safety employees made....

but now that ya'lls dumbasses got laid off from your big time jobs where you sacraficed job security for pay you get your panties in a wad over what government employees make.....

It really does make me laugh out loud

A firefighter (by rank) does top out at around $80K - look at your own post, not a single firefighter listed every single one of your examples of well over the 80k mark is a Captain which required 5 upward promotions from firefighter to achieve and those you listed are also employees with over 25 years on the job

get your facts straight before posting - you only make yourself look stupid