Areas with high call volumes are without ambulances....

Brothers and Sisters:

On Saturday, November 20, with B-shift on duty, Fire and Rescue Department management decided to place Ambulance 408 and 409 out-of-service due to a lack of staffing. Ambulance 409 was to be out-of-service until 1900 hours, while Ambulance 408 was to be out-of-service for 24 hours. Additionally, Medic 408 and Medic 409 were reduced from a PTU, with an ALS certified Officer and a total of two ALS providers, to a 1 and 1 unit with no officer and one ALS provider.

When I found out about this, I made phone calls to B-shift DFC Chuck Ryan and the Operations AFC John Caussin to ask why this was happening. In particular, the question that I raised was whether or not all options have been exhausted prior to units being placed out-of-service. I was assured by both DFC Ryan and AFC Caussin that all options were exhausted as dictated in SOP 02.01.01. I was told that the callback list was exhausted and OPS406 sent out several pages and made many calls looking for personnel to come in and work, without success. In addition to questioning the options being exhausted, I inquired with DFC Ryan and AFC Caussin as to why personnel were not being held or recalled in an effort to keeping units in service. I was told that they did not want to impact personnel with being held over or being recalled because it was the weekend and they were trying to be "employee friendly."

Soon after speaking with them, I contacted Communications Director Joel Kobersteen to put out emails to the membership and a page to the Executive Board in an effort to see if members would be willing to come in and work in order to place these units back in service. Ambulance 408 went back in service at 1900 hours along with Ambulance 409, and both Medic 408 and Medic 409 returned to PTU status at 1900.

Brothers and sisters, in essence the department implemented a self-directed "brown out" on Saturday, November 20. Although the union is not here to tell management how to run the department, we, as a union, are telling management to follow their own rules and SOP’s - this time with staffing. Those not in management positions of the FRD must follow established SOP’s on a daily basis and so must management. On Tuesday, November 23, the Local 2068 Executive Board unanimously passed a motion that the department enforce their own rules and policies. For the record, staffing should not be treated any differently than any other policy.

That having been said, I was assured by AFC Caussin that this practice would cease and, if necessary, FRD personnel will be held and recalled in accordance with SOP 02.01.01.

Please keep in mind is that we cannot allow units to placed out of service due to convenience. What do I mean? We as a membership can't say that it is okay to place Medic 409 or Engine 421 out-of-service because we don't want to hold anyone over - but when the county or management wants to reduce transport units, rescue squads, or specialty support functions because of the budget - we want to beat our drums loudly and tell that public that they cannot do that. You can't say one day that's it's okay for units to be placed out-of-service due to staffing, but on another day we're trying to justify why units should be in service to the Board of Supervisors or the public. Brothers and sisters, this can't be about convenience. Solidarity means 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Let's not start or add to units being allowed to be "browned out."

Fraternally,

John Niemiec
President

Brothers and sisters, suck it up. The new xBoxes, 50 inch TV's and pillows and blankies will be soon.

So the real question is, how many calls had delayed response due to the reduction in servicable units? If nobody was sitting around waiting for an ambulance, perhaps those units really weren't needed.

Either way, nothing like Public Service Unions arguing that regulations require a certain level of staffing when actual demand doesn't necessitate the required manning.

Maybe all the firefighters were out taking down the Connolly for congress signs that littered the parkway.

Perhaps the problem is the fact that the EMS are union driven? These the same fools who endorsed Connelly. PS...I am not your brother.

Dig-Dug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Fraternally,
>
> John Niemiec
> President

President of what Dick-Duck? Are you the author of this diatribe, or are you posting "on behalf of" the author of the diatribe?

As other posters have intimated, did someone "Get Sick when B-Shift is Working", and have some unfavorable outcome as a result of "Ambulance 408 and 409 [being] out-of-service due to a lack of staffing" or "Medic 408 and Medic 409 [being] reduced from a PTU, with an ALS certified Officer and a total of two ALS providers, to a 1 and 1 unit with no officer and one ALS provider"? ???

Is this really the place you want to take your apparent pro-union agenda to?

Hey Brother what about your union dues going to support the campaign of Connelly.
Always have to have the Board in your pocket so when fire and rescue cries for a raise you get it. We county employees get nothing.

Just wait until schools get their COLAs and the rest of the county doesnt, they did it in the 80's, they will try again.

Thanks for posting!

I would not have believed that union guys still communicate like that but there it is in black and white.... "brothers and sister" "Fraternally"

Are you kidding me? No wonder unions are all but gone in this country - but for the public employees they would in fact be gone.

There are dinosaurs and are by definition self interested. They try to get more money for their members (this is of course secondary to ensuring the preservation of the union itself). They act like it's a public safety issue when it's really only about getting more money for union members. Let's call it what it is and stop the BS.

And while we're at it why don't they start with some economic reality. FFX residents pay a lot in tax money already, the ecoonomy is in its 4th year in the crapper, people are hurting - how about a few cut backs for teh union, if you really cared about the citizen of FFX you'd take one for the team.

I got an idea. Maybe instead of wasting your time writing this why don't you do what the rest of America does that is on salary and pick up an ambulance on your own time. Why do we work long hours and take pride in our jobs without extra pay. I appreciate the job you do but maybe just once work past your shift. Take a stand Mr. President and show your brothers that you believe I'm the community you work for. Teachers work at home and extra hours with no pay. They purchase material for classrooms with their own money. When was the last time your brothers did that. Have you ever gotten up in the middle of the night to go to work because you knew that those extra hours would pay off in the future for the good of the company. I bet not. You should look at yourself first and ask what can I do for my county to help it out. Standing on a soap box crying about an ambulance not staffed is noble but doing something about is a leader. Be a leader not a cry baby.

maybe in some jobs, like a school teacher, you can go above and beyond at home but, in public safety jobs like fire fighters and police there is this thing called accountability. if you just show up to ride the fire truck or ambulance, first you would not be allowed, second..if you get hurt while on a call...guess what? to bad....no injury leave no workmans comp. so maybe you should not be speaking of something you know nothing about just to see your print somewhere....find another thread same ol same ol.

With the recent posts on FFU detailing the high salaries (120K+) received by firemen and cops, frequently higher than white color jobs, I think you can afford to take a pay freeze like the rest of us.

Oh, and your nice pensions too! Cry me a fucking river. I wish they had told me in high school that I could have made more money as a senior firefighter than I could as an engineer with a college degree. I would have saved a boatload in tuition and actually had a retirement to look forward to. And you're on here bitching about money? Don't be a douche. Go away and trim your Fireman 'Stache.

You Moron:
OK, then how about just not asking for a raise while EVERY county worker goes without for the last three years? THAT's being a brother. And maybe not suing in court to get it, using up more resources that could be used in a positive way?

How about ensuring that every one of the local firefighters and ambulance workers didn't use county resources (fire trucks and ambulances) when out for the Fill the Boot campaign over teh Labor Day weekend? How about cease the policy of public support for politicians, mucking up the right-of-ways? Maybe you could find ways to make the system more efficient instead of finding ways to maximize the hours that your dues-paying brethren bring in?

If you don't want comments, don't write on a public board.

Cry me a river Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With the recent posts on FFU detailing the high
> salaries (120K+) received by firemen and cops,
> frequently higher than white color jobs, I think
> you can afford to take a pay freeze like the rest
> of us.
>
> Oh, and your nice pensions too! Cry me a fucking
> river. I wish they had told me in high school
> that I could have made more money as a senior
> firefighter than I could as an engineer with a
> college degree. I would have saved a boatload in
> tuition and actually had a retirement to look
> forward to. And you're on here bitching about
> money? Don't be a douche. Go away and trim your
> Fireman 'Stache.


The reason why firemen and policemen get paid so much more is because those jobs require them to risk their lives daily to protect retards like yourself. They get paid to run into burning buildings and protect pencil pushing geeks like yourself from bad people. You wouldn't last two seconds as a cop or fireman so keep working your 9-5 day job, where you actually work 2 hours the whole day. We all know that white collared corporate bitches report to work (8:30-9:00)...check their voice mail and email (9:00-10:00)...work from (10-11:30)...start thinking about lunch (11:30-12:00)...Lunch (12:00-1:15)...check your email and voicemail (1:30-2:00)....start working again (2:00-3:15)....check your fantasy team, espn, or facebook (3:30-4:30)...dick around the office (4:30-5:00)...(5:00-7:00) sit in traffic.

Who's fault is it that you're a moron and paid 100k for a college degree that got you no retirement and a nice bmw that you can barely afford? "Cry me a river" about how nicely firemen and cops have it...when you know we'll still respond to your bitch ass when you call 911 for a stubbed toe or you heard a scary noise outside your window. So go somewhere else and cry me a river pussy.

Posted by: Cry me a river ()
Date: November 29, 2010 02:28PM

ok d-bag...you made your career choice. dont hate people that research and know a govt. jog is the way to go whether it be county, state or fed. you made your sorry ass choice. deal with your pathetic life and again...dint be a hater.

Posted by: Thanks Spanky ()
Date: November 29, 2010 02:39PM

d-bag #2...fire side knows there will be no raises for at least the next 2 years. i know that 70% of the ff out there collecting over the labor day weekend dont waqnt to be there...its a politcs and unfortunetly the ff's are stuck in the middle. maybe you can organize a citizens group to get it stopped..please!

i would like to know how many of you would take the chance of doing something for a complete and total stranger that is probably some panty waste yuppie that could possibly cost you your life, leave your kids without you, having your parents burry YOU. think about not watching your kids grow up or you parents not seeing you grow up.if you are a decent human being it should put a lump in your throat. that is why public servants make a little more money than some of you pencil pushing dweebs. so when your mother is having chest pains or your fathers house has been broken into do all the public servants a favor and handle it yourself tough guy.

I respect fire and police man but I am sick and tired of the argument that they "put their life on the line" each day. First, they knew the risks when they took the job.

Second, they encounter dangerous situations once is a great while not every day. I have 3 freinds that are firefighters and one is a fulltime carpenter, the other a full time bartender and the other has a fulltime job in sales. They do these careers while also having a fulltime firefighters job. 80% of the time, they sleep, eat and watch TV while on the clock.

A few times per shift they respond to a car accident, false alarm or other minor injury. Once or twice a month they get a real fire and those are almost always easily extinguished without any risk of bodily harm. All in all it's a good gig, highly paid, very little heavy lifting and great benefits. Plus the hours are such that you can have another fulltime job. You don't have to take work home with you -- no sales quotas, deadlines, or hard performance goals like most people have.

I'll grant you that once ow twice a career you may find yourself in deep shit and you may hav eto risk your life and you shoudl be compensated for that BUT let's not overstate the risks or the deserved rewards.

What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I respect fire and police man but I am sick and
> tired of the argument that they "put their life on
> the line" each day. First, they knew the risks
> when they took the job.
>
> Second, they encounter dangerous situations once
> is a great while not every day. I have 3 freinds
> that are firefighters and one is a fulltime
> carpenter, the other a full time bartender and the
> other has a fulltime job in sales. They do these
> careers while also having a fulltime firefighters
> job. 80% of the time, they sleep, eat and watch
> TV while on the clock.
>
> A few times per shift they respond to a car
> accident, false alarm or other minor injury. Once
> or twice a month they get a real fire and those
> are almost always easily extinguished without any
> risk of bodily harm. All in all it's a good gig,
> highly paid, very little heavy lifting and great
> benefits. Plus the hours are such that you can
> have another fulltime job. You don't have to take
> work home with you -- no sales quotas, deadlines,
> or hard performance goals like most people have.
>
> I'll grant you that once ow twice a career you may
> find yourself in deep shit and you may hav eto
> risk your life and you shoudl be compensated for
> that BUT let's not overstate the risks or the
> deserved rewards.


I agree with you to a point. Your 3 friends must be on B-Shift if 80% of the time they're sleeping eating and watching tv.

If 70% of the FF don't want to go out and collect during the Labor Day Weekend, then why do it? Is there something that compels you to do it besides some muckety-muck asking you? Grow some balls, FFs.

ExcuseMe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If 70% of the FF don't want to go out and collect
> during the Labor Day Weekend, then why do it? Is
> there something that compels you to do it besides
> some muckety-muck asking you?



They loose xBox privileges and miss out on watching The Real World marathon. The are made to buy groceries, cook, and wash their trucks all day.

Fuck you - you Union TOOL!!! Go mop a floor or something - go wash your car wheels for the 900th time using county soap & water. GIMME GIMME GIMME

you moron...... So if you showed up to work early or stayed late and mopped the floor or took out the trash you are not covered under workmans comp. Huh check va state law. Doesnt Fairfax have a volunteer system? Why doesnt the presindent of your dear ol union join and help save money for the better of his troops. Seems to me you dont know what your talking about. Your job had less deaths last year then people commuting to work so dont give the bs of the danger. And as for accountability we all have it in every aspect of our lives.

in reply to cry me a river:

just so you know....not only do firemen make better money and get a better retirement, but they get more ass than you ever will typing on a computer for 8 hours a day.
bottom line...you are jealous, but that won't keep you warm at night. i, however, keep my fireman very warm every night he is home and not at work risking his life to save a toolbag like you.

3beepswife.. you sound like a keeper! A real classy chick!

I'm sure your husband isn't banging chicks behind your back!

Mr. Niemiec made $121,587.65 in 2009 according to the records I have for public salaries of Fairfax County Employees. Make what you want of this information.

So this is how public employees (and their wives) think of the general public? "Toolbags", "d-bags", "moron", "panty waste yuppie", "bitch ass", and "pussy". Nice to know that our hard-earned tax dollars are going to waste on people who have very little respect for those that they supposedly protect and then have enough free time to whine about it on a public message board - to the public they serve.

It must be hard to serve such idiots, I can feel your frustration. So let's make a deal - the next time you come to a budget hearing with your hat in hand, maybe someone can remind one of the Board of Supervisors how a few vocal employees and their wives, feel about the public.

I think the next time that the Firemen come asking for money, we remind them of just how we, the public, are viewed. They obviously don't respect us, and why should they, we have been rubber stamping their budgets for the last 20 years without question. In every budget cycle, as hundreds of other civil employees have been let go, the fire department has been strangly insulated from these cuts. They have been getting their way for much too long and its about time that they find that their taxpaying employers do have a backbone and don't appreciate the way we are viewed.

Thank you so much for showing us all this side of your feelings toward us civilians, we appreciate your input. Its been an eye-opener. I don't think I will ever view a Firefighter the same again.

same way again.

Typical d-bag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So this is how public employees (and their wives)
> think of the general public? "Toolbags", "d-bags",
> "moron", "panty waste yuppie", "bitch ass", and
> "pussy". Nice to know that our hard-earned tax
> dollars are going to waste on people who have very
> little respect for those that they supposedly
> protect and then have enough free time to whine
> about it on a public message board - to the public
> they serve.
>
> It must be hard to serve such idiots, I can feel
> your frustration. So let's make a deal - the next
> time you come to a budget hearing with your hat in
> hand, maybe someone can remind one of the Board of
> Supervisors how a few vocal employees and their
> wives, feel about the public.
>
> I think the next time that the Firemen come asking
> for money, we remind them of just how we, the
> public, are viewed. They obviously don't respect
> us, and why should they, we have been rubber
> stamping their budgets for the last 20 years
> without question. In every budget cycle, as
> hundreds of other civil employees have been let
> go, the fire department has been strangly
> insulated from these cuts. They have been getting
> their way for much too long and its about time
> that they find that their taxpaying employers do
> have a backbone and don't appreciate the way we
> are viewed.
>
> Thank you so much for showing us all this side of
> your feelings toward us civilians, we appreciate
> your input. Its been an eye-opener. I don't think
> I will ever view a Firefighter the same again.


Maybe you should try for one week being a public safety worker in Fairfax. Yes, we do work for the public but believe me, the show of respect is very often a one way street. Go into some of the higher dollar neighborhoods and the attitude is almost always "you work for me and you will do as I say". Very often I came close to telling the citizens that if Im not mistaken , you put you pants on the ssame wau I do so go fuck yourself. I can tell you fom 3 decades of experience that shit will get you nothing.

How many public safety personnel actually live in the County? Very few do. A high percentage take the county's (our tax dollars) pay and subsidize the western counties with property taxes on both homes and cars.

Yes the Fire Department is pretty darn good and its mission. Please have some humility, check your over inflated egos at the door, obey the laws, and appreciate that you have a decent paying job while having the opprotunity to work other professions.

Park legally when going to Safeway/Giant, or to the gym in the county vehicles. Stop collecting money on county time, in county uniforms, and in county vehicle while in the middle of public highways.

get real, wrote:
"Go into some of the higher dollar neighborhoods and the attitude is almost always "you work for me and you will do as I say"."

What kind of demands are these people making in these high dollar neighborhoods?

Please give us some examples, I wouldn't mind seeing a different view of the type of stuff you have to put up with every other day. Seems like this would be a good education on the trials and tribulations that you have to endure on your job, so educate us.

Fire, with Police, and FFX County Employees havent had a raise in 3 years now, so dont go thinking they all make 176k like the fire chief and have a life of luxury.

I am a firefighter, live in the county, drive an 8 year-old truck, and have no idea why anyone would post this email. I dont complain about my job, hour worked, or time missed with my family; because I know what I signed up for.

3beepswife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in reply to cry me a river:
>
> just so you know....not only do firemen make
> better money and get a better retirement, but they
> get more ass than you ever will typing on a
> computer for 8 hours a day.
> bottom line...you are jealous, but that won't keep
> you warm at night. i, however, keep my fireman
> very warm every night he is home and not at work
> risking his life to save a toolbag like you.

Are you saying you keep someone else warm when he is not there?

Typical d-bag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So this is how public employees (and their wives)
> think of the general public? "Toolbags", "d-bags",
> "moron", "panty waste yuppie", "bitch ass", and
> "pussy". Nice to know that our hard-earned tax
> dollars are going to waste on people who have very
> little respect for those that they supposedly
> protect and then have enough free time to whine
> about it on a public message board - to the public
> they serve.

Don't forget "pencil pushing" "dweebs" and "geeks". You don't have to be very smart to be fire fighter. Apparently some here take pride in that.

Very few of the people that call 911 for an ambulance need one. They think they will get seen quicker if they come in by amb. People are ungrateful and think you are some blue collar scum...especially in the more well to do neighborhoods. The current up and comers (15-40) think they have some kind of special entitlement pass, they are the D-bags. If you called and didnt talk down to the crew you are not in the D-bag category MORE COMPLETE and TYPICAL D-BAG but by the way you are protesting my guess would be you two are some of the snotty snobs here in FFX Co. If not...dont talk about something you have not experienced (calling 911) if you had an experience, tell the honest truth how you were treated....please.

FF! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very few of the people that call 911 for an
> ambulance need one. They think they will get seen
> quicker if they come in by amb. People are
> ungrateful and think you are some blue collar
> scum...especially in the more well to do
> neighborhoods. The current up and comers (15-40)
> think they have some kind of special entitlement
> pass, they are the D-bags. If you called and
> didnt talk down to the crew you are not in the
> D-bag category MORE COMPLETE and TYPICAL D-BAG but
> by the way you are protesting my guess would be
> you two are some of the snotty snobs here in FFX
> Co. If not...dont talk about something you have
> not experienced (calling 911) if you had an
> experience, tell the honest truth how you were
> treated....please.

I've never called 911. I was just commenting on the posts that call non fire fighters d-bags, dweebs, pencil pushers, snobs, etc. I have two buddies who are Volunteer fire fighters. Great guys who would give you the shirt of their back if you needed it.

I wouldn't talk down to anyone. Especially if I have just called them for help. ;-)

Anyone anywhere who knows anything about the fire department already knows not to call a B-tard for anything....ever!

:)

I'm a volunteer firefighter in the County, a long-time county resident and tax-payer, a 15-40 year-old up-and-coming, I come from a family that might be misconstrued as an aforementioned "d-bag white collar" type; and frankly this discussion looks a little blown out of proportion.

Most of the public see firefighters and cops as dedicated professionals who will come and help in the darkest hour. (Cops get it harder than firefighters since they write tickets, let's face it!). I've called 911 many times in my life, even before I became a firefighter, and I've always been grateful for who showed up to help out.

I hear at times resentment among public safety about snobbishness among the public, and sometimes it is justified. Branding everyone in that category, however, is just wrong. Just because you're responding to a 1xx or a 12xx box doesn't mean you're gonna get a rich douchebag.

The overwhelming majority of paid fire/police who I've met ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE who as a taxpayer, grateful citizen, and volunteer firefighter, I would gladly help them in any way possible: be it cost-of-living adjustments, employee assistance, or even give them the proverbial "shirt off my back." You have our sincerest thanks!

But you know what I resent? The ungrateful 10% of paid staff. I get mad at career public safety people who don't appreciate what they have. You are paid well for your services by a grateful public yet you continue to approach your job in a cavalier manner with some screwed-up sense of entitlement. Keep in mind that there are hundreds of talented, kind, qualified people who apply for paid ff jobs and don't get them for God-only-knows reasons. We don't do the firefighter thing because it pays well (if you want to get rich, go to business school): we do it because it's fun and rewarding and we get to help our fellow man. The pay keeps us fed and housed so we can live well enough to do our jobs well. Keep that air of humility about you and remember just how lucky you are to have received your badge!

P.S. I also get pissed off at those Union wingnuts who hate volunteers. Let me clear this up: The volunteers of Fairfax County DO NOT WANT TO STEAL YOUR JOBS! I'd wager that if layoffs were threatened, most of the volunteers would be standing right next to you at the BOS meetings to help you keep your jobs. We're just regular people like you: most of us are tax-paying County residents who want to help out our wonderful paid fire/ems/police workers. Some of us are aspiring career-firefighters who seek no more than education, experience, and friendship. We're here to help YOU. That extra firefighter on the ladder truck is there to make sure there's a ladder at the 3rd floor window when the room you're in is flashing. That fresh blue-clad EMT in the back of the medic unit is there to give chest-compressions while you and your partner draw up drugs and intubate a coded patient. That engineer-by-day guy is there to help you with your coursework for your next promotional exam. And the quiet one sitting next to you at dinner is there to fill in when you've got a family emergency but detail/callback will take 4 hours to relieve you. We don't want to play FOR you, we just want to play WITH you. Why do we even bother when we're not even paid? Because we care: about our County, and about YOU.

Submitted respectfully, and with gratitude to all of my wonderful paid and volunteer fire/police/EMS brothers and sisters. Be safe out there!

I hope someone decent shows up in my time of need.

What are my taxes for?

Stop the madness.

If you are not happy find a job you love.

Then it will not be a job but a hobby.

From : lucky

Hey, we all make our own decisions. Let me guess, you didn't want to take a low paying job and have to ride "the Gut bucket" or risk your precious life going into a burning building. Your probably the same kind of Yuppie that bought a house you couldn't afford, drive around in an Escalade, then call for an Ambulance when you have an anxiety attack after you realize you can't afford the life style your spoiled wife and 2.5 kid's think that they deserve. To bad you didn't have a Union to stand up for your rights after your Etech company laid you off for sitting around in a cubicle playing Tank commander all day. Cry yourself a river Yuppie!

Well, I can't tell you how many times i have transported patients to the ER (sore back, stomach flu, panic attacks, got a DWI and can't drive) that live across the street from a hospital. They think they will get seen faster if they go by ambulance? I seen people (grown adults) covered in their own crap (from head to toe) demanding that we wipe them clean (not an emergency, by the way). The public thinks we are a cab service? Now for some of the real stuff i've seen: family of four shot dead by the father (daughter still alive), 18 month old run over by her mother on garden tractor (still alive), 65 year old couple with their throats cut by MS13 (in their home), countless shootings, stabbings, hangings, burn victims, delivered babies, have had gun's pointed at me, countless building fires, etc. We do not sit around playing X-box. We train more then any Fire department out there. Despite what people think we are also under a pay freeze. Pay freeze for four years in the early 90s. We are a right to work state, but at least with Local 2068 we have some kind of voice! General county employee's, have none. Thanks for the vent! And please remember, when you see us collecting money at an intersection it is for kids with MS. We are not required to do it, but want to help, it's in our nature! The Fairfax County Fire Dept. broke the national record last year, thanks to the the kind hearts of it's citizens!! Thank You and Hail!

***This message is directed at the minority of career fire who fall into the hardline Union ass**** category. You majority of awesome, professional, reasonable union guys disregard ***

Actually, there is nothing I'd love more than to work as a career firefighter/medic. I've had papers in before over a long time, but never gotten a call, and as such I've had to find work in other industries. I don't drive a luxury car, I don't own a home, and the only river I cry is over my broken dreams because I've never been given the opportunity to serve my community professionally. Over time though, I came to realize how little anyone cares. I may be highly qualified and have a clean record, but maybe I'm the wrong EEO class or I'm not in the good-ol-boys network or who knows? There's no justice in personnel selection for public safety, despite what management and the Union tell you. Where's my Union to help me secure paid fire employment? The truth, kids, is that just because you work hard and believe in yourself doesn't mean you'll ever reach your dream.

That's why I get so pissed off at hardline union guys who believe they have some God-given right to be the exclusive providers of fire/ems in the world. They say "firefighting is our JOB, not our hobby"; well guess what? If I COULD make it my job I would. Maybe if the Union would actually do something to make hiring of new firefighters fair and just, I wouldn't get so pissed. Meanwhile they deny me the chance to serve while crying about all the horrible shit they've seen and done and expect my sympathy, saying "I don't understand what it's like working in my white-collar job." But of course when I try to understand, they push me away so they can keep their sicko martyrdom complex alive.

The truth about you hardline Union guys is that you NEED your union because you don't have the self-confidence in your own qualifications to keep you employed. If you were truly an irreplaceable force in the world, nobody would be able to lay you off or fire you anyways. White-collar guys don't have unions because management knows that if they fire 'em, the whole company starts to fail. You hard-line Union guys got your jobs not because you're talented or qualified or worked hard for it, but because you were LUCKY! I hope for your soul's sake you give thanks for every day you draw breath as a Unionized career firefighter: because of you some poor bastard like me didn't get a job long ago and has to live a less-fulfilled work-life as a white-collar drone in an endless cubicle hive. So tell me who REALLY has it worse?

Squrriel, I sympathize with your situation. It is true that getting hired in the Fairfax county fire dept. is very difficult. If you are a white male and not already a Paramedic, your better off going somewhere else. Fairfax takes affirmative actionX1000. Here is their history. In the early 1980s Fairfax county was sued by a group of black, female police officers in a multi-million dollar suit, that they won. Since that time the Board of supervisors have mandated that this will never happen again. The Fire department has a long and unpublicized practice of padding their minority numbers. For over thirty years now they have been reaching to the bottom of promotional list to advance female and minority's. In fact it has only been in the past couple of years that white males have had to take the county to court to get promoted. A few years ago i personally heard then Fire Chief Mike Neuhard, at a Fire Chiefs visit say that if he could he would "hire only entire recruit school's of women." Yet these practice still continue. It is wrong to blame the Union for this entirely. The Union only has limited authority in such issues, being a Right to work state. The union is forced to support this practice or risk getting the the County Supervisors door slammed in their face at negotiation time. My advice to you is, Keep on trying, become a Paramedic, or look at other Fire Department's. Good luck!

FYI I am a Paramedic and have been for some time, it hasn't helped. Also it seems like every other jurisdiction finds someone else to fill spots regardless of qualifications, and as usual HR clams up and never tells you why you weren't picked or where your ranking on the list stands. Meanwhile I've got bills and responsibilities and my window of opportunity has essentially closed and I don't know if it will ever re-open.

I understand that the Union has little say in hiring under VA law. That's not why I resent the Union. I get mad because they actively try and hinder my participation in the fire service. If I can't get paid for the job I love, I still at least want to do it in some capacity. I want only to share in your experiences: you can keep all your paycheck, benefits, and pension. If they'd share the toys once in a while with the other kids in the County I wouldn't have a problem. I mean seriously: there's at least one empty seat on every fire apparatus in this County!

Let me make sure i have this clear? Are you a Volunteer in Fairfax county?

Yes, I am a County volunteer. One of probably 300.

I was a Volunteer in FX also. You don't seem to care if you become paid, if i am understanding what you wrote? Are you saying that your Volunteer dept. dosn't let you participate at your station?

Sure I participate at my station. I'm just speaking to the general attitude out there. Some guys I know have not always been received well in non-volunteer houses in the County. I just want to see a world where County paid and volunteer guys all get along without any paid vs. volunteer friction. We serve the same public while answering to the same management under the same Company heading: why are we still divided?

As far as going paid, I think that ship sailed long ago. I don't believe it will ever happen, and going through the process time and again only to be rejected is demoralizing and time-consuming. I guess there just comes a time when you have to accept that things for one reason or another are not meant to be.

Jesus Christ you two! Go to PMs. No one cares about your conversation.

Don't give up Squirrel, If it is what you love, keep trying! It took me over 4 year's to get hired in Fairfax and that was back in the early and mid 80s when Affirmative action was in full swing. It was very frustrating for me also, but i never gave up. I also went threw the hiring system with about 5 or 6 other departments in the metro area. It is a very competitive career. Being a Medic should give you a great edge! As for the Vol. vs paid relation. Man, it is like that everywhere and has always been that way? In Fx for as long as i can remember. I have always admired Volunteer's and never forgot where i came from, unlike a lot of paid guy's that have been and still are Volunteer's. Good luck to you Squirrel! Maybe we will bump into each other on an incident sometime? I will be the paid guy that dosn't have his nose in the air.

Not sure if this more of a debate on firefighters or unions but I'll give you my experience working within a union in Virginia. At 18 I was "encouraged" to join the union where I worked even though I had no idea I was not obligated due to VA being a "right nto work State". For my weekly dues I was promised "protection" from the company that hired me, protection of my benefits and of my hours. Ultimately I found that when I was able to outperform those in the same job position as me, I was kept from advancing because these same people were able to call the union to complain. In other words...the union was protecting people based on seniority and not job performance. I couldn't advance nor get hours even though I was more qualified and performed better in the same tasks. As for the benefits, I found out as soon as left my job that those benfits weren't any better than those in my new job. Point being I didn't find my time in a union very fulfulling.