Fairfax County General :
Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
photo red light
Posted by:
hold
()
Date: July 13, 2007 07:56AM
I read this but not sure how true it is.
"Bob Otten, traffic enforcement supervisor in Fairfax County, agreed. He said it could take the county about a year to get the program up and running again, in part because the locality's annual budget was passed before the photo-red law."
It is a quote from a fairfax official about operating the photo red light cameras. I thought the last time they just left the cameras in place even though the law expired. Since it was not in the budget they would have to wait a year to get it going again, but somehow I think they will suddenly find the money to operate this money maker.
"Bob Otten, traffic enforcement supervisor in Fairfax County, agreed. He said it could take the county about a year to get the program up and running again, in part because the locality's annual budget was passed before the photo-red law."
It is a quote from a fairfax official about operating the photo red light cameras. I thought the last time they just left the cameras in place even though the law expired. Since it was not in the budget they would have to wait a year to get it going again, but somehow I think they will suddenly find the money to operate this money maker.
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
trogdor!
()
Date: July 13, 2007 08:33AM
The county will have to do several things before they can start up the cameras again. The main one is that they'll have to conduct a study on the intersections where they plan to use the cameras, and modify the yellow light length if it does not ITE http://www.ite.org/ standards. Then they'll have to initiate some sort of public awareness campaign to let people know the cameras are coming, plus put up signs at all intersections that have cameras. See this thread: http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/38591/38742.html
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
pgens
()
Date: July 13, 2007 12:07PM
What about Fairfax City? Anyone know when the familiar cameras by Denny's and Fuds will get started up again?
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
ffxn8v
()
Date: July 13, 2007 01:32PM
trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The county will have to do several things before
> they can start up the cameras again. The main one
> is that they'll have to conduct a study on the
> intersections where they plan to use the cameras,
> and modify the yellow light length if it does not
> ITE http://www.ite.org/ standards. Then they'll
> have to initiate some sort of public awareness
> campaign to let people know the cameras are
> coming, plus put up signs at all intersections
> that have cameras. See this thread:
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/385
> 91/38742.html
________________________________________________________________
Last check, the red-light warning signs for the camera program were stored in a parking garage adjacent to 12000 Govt. Ctr. Pkwy.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The county will have to do several things before
> they can start up the cameras again. The main one
> is that they'll have to conduct a study on the
> intersections where they plan to use the cameras,
> and modify the yellow light length if it does not
> ITE http://www.ite.org/ standards. Then they'll
> have to initiate some sort of public awareness
> campaign to let people know the cameras are
> coming, plus put up signs at all intersections
> that have cameras. See this thread:
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/385
> 91/38742.html
________________________________________________________________
Last check, the red-light warning signs for the camera program were stored in a parking garage adjacent to 12000 Govt. Ctr. Pkwy.
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: July 14, 2007 12:14AM
hold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read this but not sure how true it is.
>
> "Bob Otten, traffic enforcement supervisor in
> Fairfax County, agreed. He said it could take the
> county about a year to get the program up and
> running again, in part because the locality's
> annual budget was passed before the photo-red
> law."
do you have link to where you read this? the credibility of an anonymous poster is nil, so i hope you can cite your source.
trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The main one
> is that they'll have to conduct a study on the
> intersections where they plan to use the cameras,
> and modify the yellow light length if it does not
> ITE http://www.ite.org/ standards.
i believe that the fact they did this previously when the cameras were installed makes it legal enough for them to reactivate them. you do realize they never took down the old camera posts, they just deactivated them. besides, what has something small like the law ever stopped VA from screwing us?
> Then they'll
> have to initiate some sort of public awareness
> campaign to let people know the cameras are
> coming
a) no they dont have to alert the public because it YOUR responsibility as a citizen to know ALL of the laws as not knowing is NOT an excuse for breaking any laws.
b) they already announced this on the news one night so that is enough as far as they were concerned. did they even have a campaign to annouce it the first time they put them in?
if they want your money, they will take it.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read this but not sure how true it is.
>
> "Bob Otten, traffic enforcement supervisor in
> Fairfax County, agreed. He said it could take the
> county about a year to get the program up and
> running again, in part because the locality's
> annual budget was passed before the photo-red
> law."
do you have link to where you read this? the credibility of an anonymous poster is nil, so i hope you can cite your source.
trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The main one
> is that they'll have to conduct a study on the
> intersections where they plan to use the cameras,
> and modify the yellow light length if it does not
> ITE http://www.ite.org/ standards.
i believe that the fact they did this previously when the cameras were installed makes it legal enough for them to reactivate them. you do realize they never took down the old camera posts, they just deactivated them. besides, what has something small like the law ever stopped VA from screwing us?
> Then they'll
> have to initiate some sort of public awareness
> campaign to let people know the cameras are
> coming
a) no they dont have to alert the public because it YOUR responsibility as a citizen to know ALL of the laws as not knowing is NOT an excuse for breaking any laws.
b) they already announced this on the news one night so that is enough as far as they were concerned. did they even have a campaign to annouce it the first time they put them in?
if they want your money, they will take it.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
trogdor!
()
Date: July 14, 2007 02:28AM
because it YOUR responsibility as a citizen to know ALL of the laws
I do know the law, and the law requires the public awareness campaign under section N for them to re-implement the camerashttp://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-968.1:
"Prior to or coincident with the implementation or expansion of a traffic light signal violation monitoring system, a locality shall conduct a public awareness program, advising the public that the locality is implementing or expanding a traffic light signal violation monitoring system."
Localities were not simply told they could turn the cameras back on. A new law was passed. Since the cameras currently in place had been deactivated (as previously required by the legislature), "turning them on" would be a new implementation. They will have to do a public awareness program. How detailed that must be is anyone's guess.
did they even have a campaign to annouce it the first time they put them in?
I'm not sure that was a requirement under the last authorization.
I do know the law, and the law requires the public awareness campaign under section N for them to re-implement the camerashttp://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-968.1:
"Prior to or coincident with the implementation or expansion of a traffic light signal violation monitoring system, a locality shall conduct a public awareness program, advising the public that the locality is implementing or expanding a traffic light signal violation monitoring system."
Localities were not simply told they could turn the cameras back on. A new law was passed. Since the cameras currently in place had been deactivated (as previously required by the legislature), "turning them on" would be a new implementation. They will have to do a public awareness program. How detailed that must be is anyone's guess.
did they even have a campaign to annouce it the first time they put them in?
I'm not sure that was a requirement under the last authorization.
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: July 14, 2007 10:13AM
"Public Awareness Campaign"?? LOL
Is there anybody that's not aware that you are supposed to stop at red lights? Is there anybody that's not aware that you might get a ticket if you don't?
Whether the ticket is from a cop or a camera...what difference does it make?
Is there anybody that's not aware that you are supposed to stop at red lights? Is there anybody that's not aware that you might get a ticket if you don't?
Whether the ticket is from a cop or a camera...what difference does it make?
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
ffxn8v
()
Date: July 14, 2007 10:28AM
duh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Public Awareness Campaign"?? LOL
>
> Is there anybody that's not aware that you are
> supposed to stop at red lights? Is there anybody
> that's not aware that you might get a ticket if
> you don't?
>
> Whether the ticket is from a cop or a
> camera...what difference does it make?
Photo Camera programs have been about the money, not safety.
Photo Camera programs say they reduce the intersection collision rates. What about the accident data 200 ft in each direction of the intersection - I bet it goes up, WAY UP! (intersection is defined as inside the box itself, not the areas behind the lines)
Photo Camera programs are often made possible by camera companies "donating" equipment for a (large) slice of the civil fees assessed by "fines."
Photo Camera programs cannot investigate other things on the scene - outstanding warrants, DWI, suspended license, etc.
But, camera's are about the public's safety, right?
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Public Awareness Campaign"?? LOL
>
> Is there anybody that's not aware that you are
> supposed to stop at red lights? Is there anybody
> that's not aware that you might get a ticket if
> you don't?
>
> Whether the ticket is from a cop or a
> camera...what difference does it make?
Photo Camera programs have been about the money, not safety.
Photo Camera programs say they reduce the intersection collision rates. What about the accident data 200 ft in each direction of the intersection - I bet it goes up, WAY UP! (intersection is defined as inside the box itself, not the areas behind the lines)
Photo Camera programs are often made possible by camera companies "donating" equipment for a (large) slice of the civil fees assessed by "fines."
Photo Camera programs cannot investigate other things on the scene - outstanding warrants, DWI, suspended license, etc.
But, camera's are about the public's safety, right?
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
hold em'
()
Date: July 14, 2007 04:17PM
The quote was from wtop news. I can try to find the link but it was a few days ago.
As far as a public awareness campaign it makes just as much sense as the one they spent several hundred thousand on to tell hispanics not to run in front of cars as you can be hurt if they hit you. I always wondered if in el salvador a car hits you at high speed you dont feel it.
As far as a public awareness campaign it makes just as much sense as the one they spent several hundred thousand on to tell hispanics not to run in front of cars as you can be hurt if they hit you. I always wondered if in el salvador a car hits you at high speed you dont feel it.
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
hold em'
()
Date: July 14, 2007 04:23PM
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: July 14, 2007 09:18PM
ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> duh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Public Awareness Campaign"?? LOL
> >
> > Is there anybody that's not aware that you are
> > supposed to stop at red lights? Is there
> anybody
> > that's not aware that you might get a ticket if
> > you don't?
> >
> > Whether the ticket is from a cop or a
> > camera...what difference does it make?
>
> Photo Camera programs have been about the money,
> not safety.
>
> Photo Camera programs say they reduce the
> intersection collision rates. What about the
> accident data 200 ft in each direction of the
> intersection - I bet it goes up, WAY UP!
> (intersection is defined as inside the box itself,
> not the areas behind the lines)
>
> Photo Camera programs are often made possible by
> camera companies "donating" equipment for a
> (large) slice of the civil fees assessed by
> "fines."
>
> Photo Camera programs cannot investigate other
> things on the scene - outstanding warrants, DWI,
> suspended license, etc.
>
>
> But, camera's are about the public's safety,
> right?
1) Duh, too, HATES to see those money-grubbing, crooked politicians' tax schemes work!
2) Duh would rather be rear-ended than T-boned ANYDAY!
3) Duh, too, HATES to see those stinkin', mercenary camera companies make a red cent!
4) Duh also HATES that a device on a pole can't "investigate" things...sheesh, we can put a man on the moon....
Duh's admittedly low-tech solution:
Light just turned yellow? (step 1 of 1): Apply brakes, bring vehicle to a stop.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2007 09:19PM by duh.
-------------------------------------------------------
> duh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Public Awareness Campaign"?? LOL
> >
> > Is there anybody that's not aware that you are
> > supposed to stop at red lights? Is there
> anybody
> > that's not aware that you might get a ticket if
> > you don't?
> >
> > Whether the ticket is from a cop or a
> > camera...what difference does it make?
>
> Photo Camera programs have been about the money,
> not safety.
>
> Photo Camera programs say they reduce the
> intersection collision rates. What about the
> accident data 200 ft in each direction of the
> intersection - I bet it goes up, WAY UP!
> (intersection is defined as inside the box itself,
> not the areas behind the lines)
>
> Photo Camera programs are often made possible by
> camera companies "donating" equipment for a
> (large) slice of the civil fees assessed by
> "fines."
>
> Photo Camera programs cannot investigate other
> things on the scene - outstanding warrants, DWI,
> suspended license, etc.
>
>
> But, camera's are about the public's safety,
> right?
1) Duh, too, HATES to see those money-grubbing, crooked politicians' tax schemes work!
2) Duh would rather be rear-ended than T-boned ANYDAY!
3) Duh, too, HATES to see those stinkin', mercenary camera companies make a red cent!
4) Duh also HATES that a device on a pole can't "investigate" things...sheesh, we can put a man on the moon....
Duh's admittedly low-tech solution:
Light just turned yellow? (step 1 of 1): Apply brakes, bring vehicle to a stop.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2007 09:19PM by duh.
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
...
()
Date: July 14, 2007 09:58PM
Gravis Wrote:
> > and modify the yellow light length if it does
> not
> > ITE http://www.ite.org/ standards.
>
> i believe that the fact they did this previously
> when the cameras were installed makes it legal
> enough for them to reactivate them.
The yellow light length could have been changed. VDOT's "Smart Signal System" makes it much easier for them to screw up the signal timing on a whole bunch of lights at the same time from the comfort of someone's desk, as opposed to the old days when they had to do it one at a time (driving to each intersection signal controller to implement the change) and it was very unlikely they'd repeat the same mistake over and over.
Somewhat similar to the situation where someone pushed out a config change at my last job that broke every Cisco router in the building.
See, automated tools like these make it possible for people to make more mistakes in less time ;)
> > and modify the yellow light length if it does
> not
> > ITE http://www.ite.org/ standards.
>
> i believe that the fact they did this previously
> when the cameras were installed makes it legal
> enough for them to reactivate them.
The yellow light length could have been changed. VDOT's "Smart Signal System" makes it much easier for them to screw up the signal timing on a whole bunch of lights at the same time from the comfort of someone's desk, as opposed to the old days when they had to do it one at a time (driving to each intersection signal controller to implement the change) and it was very unlikely they'd repeat the same mistake over and over.
Somewhat similar to the situation where someone pushed out a config change at my last job that broke every Cisco router in the building.
See, automated tools like these make it possible for people to make more mistakes in less time ;)
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
hold em'
()
Date: July 15, 2007 09:39AM
The company which handled the cameras have already been caught once shortening the yellow light time. Since they get a high percentage of the fines why not try to get a little more out of it.
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
ffxn8v
()
Date: July 15, 2007 09:56AM
And what would it take, to adapt this "technology" to Speed Camera use?
Answer: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
The cameras already know your speed over the loops and I am sure that if the General Assembly passed it, we would face that as well.
Are cameras needed in our world for this? NO! HELL NO!
Answer: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
The cameras already know your speed over the loops and I am sure that if the General Assembly passed it, we would face that as well.
Are cameras needed in our world for this? NO! HELL NO!
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
FCPD Officer
()
Date: July 15, 2007 08:42PM
I just run the red if the yellow is too short. As long as there are no cameras or cops that is!
Re: photo red light
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: July 15, 2007 10:08PM
hold em' Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as a public awareness campaign it makes
> just as much sense as the one they spent several
> hundred thousand on to tell hispanics not to run
> in front of cars as you can be hurt if they hit
> you. I always wondered if in el salvador a car
> hits you at high speed you dont feel it.
... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somewhat similar to the situation where someone
> pushed out a config change at my last job that
> broke every Cisco router in the building.
>
> See, automated tools like these make it possible
> for people to make more mistakes in less time ;)
LOL! both great posts. oh, and i hope he at least put in a nice MOTD on the routers. xD
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as a public awareness campaign it makes
> just as much sense as the one they spent several
> hundred thousand on to tell hispanics not to run
> in front of cars as you can be hurt if they hit
> you. I always wondered if in el salvador a car
> hits you at high speed you dont feel it.
... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somewhat similar to the situation where someone
> pushed out a config change at my last job that
> broke every Cisco router in the building.
>
> See, automated tools like these make it possible
> for people to make more mistakes in less time ;)
LOL! both great posts. oh, and i hope he at least put in a nice MOTD on the routers. xD
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."