Billy Joel Wrote:
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> Great idea!! Teach your children how to cheat and
> steal!! Return the pictures if you don't want
> them...no one is making you buy. FYI...learn to
> spell.


When someone, unsolicited, takes pictures and then sends them to my house via my kids and demands payment - that is a scam. They are more than welcome to come by and pick them pictures, but I would not expend one second of effort to return something to them I never asked for or authorized.

As a photgrapher working for Lifetouch going to schools - I can't say anything about the prices because the lab of Lifetouch is the one that takes care of the flyers and so forth. As a photographer we are forbidden to even open envelopes, and we do not carry cash around either to give "change" back to you. If you sent more then you needed, Lifetouch will return the change to you, but not from the photographer that day. The photographers show up to your school and take the photos. After that, we never see them except retake day. All the info goes through our office and sent to the lab and the lab does the rest.

Also take in consideration it's not always the "photographer's" fault because your child just to despite you will not co-operate or smile because you want them too. We do not FORCE them to smile if they do not want to. We "ask" your children if we can fix their hair, etc, but personally to me I would rather NOT touch your child, especially how society is today. I know, because I have seen it...there is some photographers that get hired could care less....but me, I take pride in what I do to try to get the best photo of your child.

And I also understand that every territory of lifetouch is different. Their like banks that have 3 branches. The same company, but every branch has different rules.

And to just give you a taste in the life of a photographer to give you an idea how our work goes:

PHOTOGRAPHER'S DAY
-------------------
-Wake up at 3:30a.m.
-Leave the house at 4a.m.
-Travel 2 hours to that school
-Arrive at 6a.m.
-Unload about 50 lbs of equipment
-Depending where they take you to set up (sometimes 2nd floor other end of hall)
-Unload equipment and Set up time takes an hour (sometimes we have to move tables and chairs so our equipment can fit that takes some extra time too)
-Start at 7 (if at a school with no breaks or lunch which happens A LOT!)
-Sometimes you go straight from 7am-2/3p.m. NON-STOP, not for one second!
-Tear down is also an hour
-Load the about 50 lbs of equipment back up in car
-Travel 2 hours back home or to the office then home.
-At least in my territory driving time is minimum wage.
-Milage (which is getting taken away from us, in my territory at least) is
way way way less and below then the government rate.
-Our hourly rate while at the school? Min wage or just SLIGHTLY above.

Not to mention our average miles we put in our PERSONAL vehicle a week about 600.
My highest in a week: 1,008 miles just in ONE WEEK!

My total miles for JUST WORK this year in 2011: 20,816 (JUST for WORK!)
A lot of wear and tear on our cars that don't get paid for...even WE have it financially rough too.

And yes...JCPenney and Target IS also Lifetouch too.

I just stumbled across this post. I hope this will help contribute positively and not contribute to the anger.

1. Being a school photographer is a relatively low-paying job, is seasonal in nature, and requires a flexible schedule, a durable vehicle, and a willingness to work in trying conditions. It's not a field to go into in order to become wealthy. If you are in for the long-term, you must love it or you will burn out.

2. Whether or not you purchase a package, your child will be in the yearbook and/or the class composite. Not only is that required, it is also the only decent thing to do. I would not punish someone for not being able to afford a picture and have that child feeling "left out". Life is too short for that.

3. Picture day is usually set by the school. I'm a service provider and, as such, need to respond to the needs of the school.

4. Schools use the images for their files and/or software systems. If the school did not need the images, I'm not sure they would take up 20 minutes of class time to have a class in front of a camera. I can't speak to why they need those images. The schools just tell me that they do.

5. I would rather offer less expensive pictures and have the school take no commission. More people could afford the pictures. I would love to have everyone get pictures because I think, as your child gets older, both the child and their families will want to have those memories. I worked at one district that specifically told me to price as low as possible because they did not want to have a "hidden tax on their parents." Those package prices were very low, and I even lost money for every "entry level" package that was purchased. But I still did OK because the amount of people purchasing was higher, and many of them bought more pictures than just the basic package. It felt great to be a photographer offering a good service and product, rather than just being used for fundraising. I would take that situation every day if it were available to me.

6. I compete against Lifetouch. They are national, and they are tough. I'm not fooling myself as one of their competitors. No one gets to be that big in this industry by not delivering consistently decent product. Why? There is always a local option for photography for almost any school. You can buy a camera and start your own photography company much more easily than starting a phone company, for instance. If you have had a bad experience in Vermont, there is probably someone in Arkansas who has had a good one. I have AT&T for my cell phone. If I get upset, I can switch to Verizon or Sprint -- two other national companies. I have no local option. I'm sure I could find sites devoted exclusively to trashing each of these three if I looked around enough.

7. Buying an image, scanning, and printing out multiple copies is illegal. I'm not trying to be a "hypocritical ass" as the last posting says. I know it happens, and there's really nothing I can do about that. The average buyer for me spends about $15. You check the box on the order form, and you are done. That just seems easier to me than to go to a lot of effort to save about $10 by buying one image for $5, scanning, and printing one for grandma at Costco for $1. Just the time, gas, etc., alone seems crazy. But, I know it happens. I'm not naive, just left wondering why.

8. The photography industry is very competitive. What that means for most consumers is that the margins are low and there is not that much mark-up. There just is not that much fat. No photography companies (that I know of) have the kind of profits that Apple or Exxon have. Many long-time friends are getting out of the industry because it's too hard. They are making enough for a decent second income, but not enough for it being their only job. I have not googled this lately, but I wonder where photographers come up in terms of "good jobs to have" in order to make money. I never see that job title as being high on the list. My work vehicle is a Ford Van with 189,000 miles on it. I make a comfortable, honest living. I have good pictures of my family because of my job choice. But I'll never be part of the "1%" club.

9. I got into school photography because I got tired of seeing some other company (Lifetouch, by the way) taking my kids pictures at school instead of me. I thought it would a simple way to make lots of money in a field that was my life's work. I was wrong on it being simple. It was much harder work than I thought. There are some things that are just more efficient when you have economies of scale. School photographer is one of them. Wedding photography is not. The money was good for the month of September, but the rest of the year the bills just keep coming. Photograph is still my life's work. I was right about that one.

10. Finally, if you want your school to leave Lifetouch, there are many other photographers out there who want that business. Ask for your school to go out to look at other options.

Hope this helps.

All you guys on here REALLY need to get a life. Deff the ones that keep their kids home on picture day?? Are you fucking kidding me? Now they aren't gonna have thier photos in the yearbook...bc your a dumbass. Also If you dont want the pictures do not buy them. Send them back to the school with your kid who goes there EVERYDAY! Its not like your wasteing precious time driving up there like some of you say. You are simply sticking it back in thier back pack. Also another thing all of you are all LIFETOUCH took his picture anyways..guess what PPL LIFETOUCH just takes pictures of the kids who are out in the line. If you sent a letter in or request for them not to be takin and they still were HAVE A NICE CHAT WITH HIS/HER teacher as to why she put them in the line. If principals at school opted out of getting a benifit for themselves pictures wouldnt be nearly as expencive as they are! Trust me bc I am one and I opted out of it and my parents pay $12 for their group shot 2 8x10s 2 5x7 4 31/2x5 and 16 wallets! Its not lifetouch its your school. If you spent half the time talking to your kids principal about the problem as you do bitching and complaing on ere the problem would be fixed! :)

Did you know that LifeTouch owns both JC Penny Portraits and Target Studios?

I saw the sticker on the outside of the package: 'buy these pictures online'. I figured that since the law is that you don't have to pay for any unsolicited items sent to you, I couldn't imagine that the pictures in the packet were anything but a complimentary advertisement to buy EXTRA PRINTS of these pictures online.

I gave away the portrait, cut out a couple pictures from one of the other sheets and actually threw the other three sheets in the trash. I let my daughter play with and lose the keychains and bookmarks as I might any other piece of junk mail.

Then a month later I am surprised with a demand for payment $44.00 unless I return the pictures ( including the ones now in the town dump ).

I wasn't going to pay, but the $44.00 was the SALE price. The Regular price was $70.00. I wouldn't pay that either since the law is on my side, except for the fact that the school uses Lifetouch for school pictures in the fall every year in addition to allowing Lifetouch to photograph my first grader without my permission in the spring.

Because the dispute is between me and Lifetouch, and I don't want my daughter in the middle of it publicly at school, LIfetouch has some monopoly power to shake me down.

I don't want my young daughter to be the only one in her class to boycott the school picture day because of a beef between me and Lifetouch.

And it might come to that year after year if I refused to pay up:

I thought a bit further, and realised that Lifetouch could demand $70.00 be paid for the unsolicited pictures in the fall in order for me to purchase photos in the fall. Legally I am not required to pay, but Lifetouch is free to use their state ( school ) granted monopoly power over school picture day to coerce payment of money not legally due.

So I paid the $44.00 for the overpriced unsolicited and largely redundant pictures I mostly threw in the trash.

Lifetouch is a SCAM. Schools - please don't use Lifetouch for school pictures until it stops shaking down parents.

It starts from the top on down.

LT is just a small piece of puzzle.

I call for an audit.

Sorry.

LT is a national giant and now has purchased former local Blanton Studios. If you can't beat them - buy them. Let you administrators know. You have options. Choose wisely.

I just send the photos back. I really do not need the hassle.

It is a scam but what can we do?

If you have a home photo scanner you could scan they photos and make a copy and send the rest back. Not legal but it might make you feel better.

the sports photo shooting for soccer and t-ball...the kids don't care how good it is...have a perent shoot the team photo

Lifetouch is a total rip-off.

Benn... You are an idiot and anyone else who thinks that Lifetouch is a rip off you are idiots also. Lifetouch is the world's largest photography company for a reason, they offer a great product at a reasonable price and they GIVE BACK. Every school has a decision to make when they sign a contract with Lifetouch. The schools determine the pricing and how the school will receive payment. They can choose to proof the pictures first (which never works and is horrible to keep up with) or they can do family approval(where Lifetouch prints a package for every student and the school collects the money later), or they can do PrePay(Where the money is required on picture day). Proofs do not work, because you hardly ever collect money back. PrePaid works in most cases. Family Approval is totally on the school, Lifetouch takes on the huge expense of printing a package for every student and then the school collects the money and turns it into Lifetouch. Whatever money isn't collected, Lifetouch doesn't bill the school or the parent, they actually just leave it out of the schools commission check.
I work with a PTA and am in charge of Picture Day. I personally wouldn't use anyone but Lifetouch. They do so many things for the schools that no one sees. They photograph all the JV and Varsity games for the yearbook at no cost. They print posters and educational flyers for the schools at no cost. The send home a Smilesafe Identification Card with every student at no cost. They are the only photography company teamed up with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and Amber Alert. Just this year they teamed up with The National PTA Union. The built 9 new schools in Haiti this year. All for free.... The schools choose their commission. If the prices are high, it is because the Principle or PTA made it that way.

Ben Clar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I saw the sticker on the outside of the package:
> 'buy these pictures online'. I figured that since
> the law is that you don't have to pay for any
> unsolicited items sent to you, I couldn't imagine
> that the pictures in the packet were anything but
> a complimentary advertisement to buy EXTRA PRINTS
> of these pictures online.
>
> I gave away the portrait, cut out a couple
> pictures from one of the other sheets and actually
> threw the other three sheets in the trash. I let
> my daughter play with and lose the keychains and
> bookmarks as I might any other piece of junk
> mail.
>
> Then a month later I am surprised with a demand
> for payment $44.00 unless I return the pictures (
> including the ones now in the town dump ).
>
> I wasn't going to pay, but the $44.00 was the SALE
> price. The Regular price was $70.00. I wouldn't
> pay that either since the law is on my side,
> except for the fact that the school uses Lifetouch
> for school pictures in the fall every year in
> addition to allowing Lifetouch to photograph my
> first grader without my permission in the spring.
>
>
> Because the dispute is between me and Lifetouch,
> and I don't want my daughter in the middle of it
> publicly at school, LIfetouch has some monopoly
> power to shake me down.
>
> I don't want my young daughter to be the only one
> in her class to boycott the school picture day
> because of a beef between me and Lifetouch.
>
> And it might come to that year after year if I
> refused to pay up:
>
> I thought a bit further, and realised that
> Lifetouch could demand $70.00 be paid for the
> unsolicited pictures in the fall in order for me
> to purchase photos in the fall. Legally I am not
> required to pay, but Lifetouch is free to use
> their state ( school ) granted monopoly power over
> school picture day to coerce payment of money not
> legally due.
>
> So I paid the $44.00 for the overpriced
> unsolicited and largely redundant pictures I
> mostly threw in the trash.
>
> Lifetouch is a SCAM. Schools - please don't use
> Lifetouch for school pictures until it stops
> shaking down parents.


Are you serious? So lets get this straight you "gave away the pics" from a package that clearly states that if you do not want the pics return them and you will not be charged.

Obviously you are looking to get something for nothing. I am sure you are part of the reduced lunch crowd demanding more be done for you while you smoke 2 packs a day and talk on your Iphone.

knowledge from a small studio school photographer:

I compete with lifetouch based on being local, service, and quality. Yes my prices are sometimes less but the truth is schools choose how expensive their pictures are because they choose how much of a commission they want to receive. It's all about the money. A few good schools are conscience about keeping print prices low for parents, but not a lot. HR imaging has come into play and does set their prices extra high I think.
So quit complaining and talk to your school office about wanting better pictures and prices. Request local studios who know what they are doing.

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Ben Clar Wrote:
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> I don't want my young daughter to be the only one
> in her class to boycott the school picture day
> because of a beef between me and Lifetouch.
>
> And it might come to that year after year if I
> refused to pay up:

Just let her sit for the photos and send the photos back... LifeTouch is out the time and materials, you don't pay anything, and your daughter gets pics taken with her classmates. What's the problem here?

I'm also a school photog, I feel you.