Fairfax County General :
Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
New Start time
Posted by:
Middle School Teacher
()
Date: October 07, 2015 10:36PM
Tardies and absences are about 50% higher in first block this year.
Selfishly as an adult, I like it because I can get all my stuff done between 2:15-5 and leave my computer at work most days. Realistically though, the kids are suffering academically.
Selfishly as an adult, I like it because I can get all my stuff done between 2:15-5 and leave my computer at work most days. Realistically though, the kids are suffering academically.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
causeican
()
Date: October 07, 2015 11:49PM
I hate the school board for their arrogance and total disregard for the parents’ opinions and the children’s welfare. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that the younger the student the later they go to school. Not the other way around. This is absurd.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
t6KyN
()
Date: October 08, 2015 06:46AM
How does my biological clock know when sunrise is? Or do we have to wake children when its daylight so as not to upset their delicate balance and turn them into mass murderers?
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
NippleChuck
()
Date: October 08, 2015 06:50AM
Nip
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2015 07:15AM by NippleChuck.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2015 07:15AM by NippleChuck.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
Thank Patty Reed
()
Date: October 08, 2015 06:58AM
You're welcome!
- Patty
- Patty
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
blaming a 600 second change
()
Date: October 08, 2015 07:06AM
Middle School Teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tardies and absences are about 50% higher in first
> block this year.
> Selfishly as an adult, I like it because I can
> get all my stuff done between 2:15-5 and leave my
> computer at work most days. Realistically though,
> the kids are suffering academically.
Because they moved Middle school times by 10 min? Really. Frost moved just 10 min. I know some middle schools start 35 min later (Braddock) as they are part of the HS. So OP is a middle school teacher blaming a 600 second change on attendance? BTW the bus routes are shorter this year so most kids arrive at school Earlier than last year as early as 7am - 25 min before the first bell. So how is this contributing to absences???
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tardies and absences are about 50% higher in first
> block this year.
> Selfishly as an adult, I like it because I can
> get all my stuff done between 2:15-5 and leave my
> computer at work most days. Realistically though,
> the kids are suffering academically.
Because they moved Middle school times by 10 min? Really. Frost moved just 10 min. I know some middle schools start 35 min later (Braddock) as they are part of the HS. So OP is a middle school teacher blaming a 600 second change on attendance? BTW the bus routes are shorter this year so most kids arrive at school Earlier than last year as early as 7am - 25 min before the first bell. So how is this contributing to absences???
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
medical/human biology scientist
()
Date: October 08, 2015 07:09AM
causeican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate the school board for their arrogance and
> total disregard for the parents’ opinions and
> the children’s welfare. It doesn’t take a
> rocket scientist to know that the younger the
> student the later they go to school. Not the
> other way around. This is absurd.
youre right it doesnt take a rocket scientist - it takes a medical/human biology scientist and they told data clearly shows its the teens that benefit from later waking not the younger children. Why not just go with 'its against God's will' or something like that...
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate the school board for their arrogance and
> total disregard for the parents’ opinions and
> the children’s welfare. It doesn’t take a
> rocket scientist to know that the younger the
> student the later they go to school. Not the
> other way around. This is absurd.
youre right it doesnt take a rocket scientist - it takes a medical/human biology scientist and they told data clearly shows its the teens that benefit from later waking not the younger children. Why not just go with 'its against God's will' or something like that...
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
Bill.N.
()
Date: October 08, 2015 12:25PM
blaming a 600 second change Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because they moved Middle school times by 10 min?
> Really. Frost moved just 10 min.
Although start times for middle schools were not moved much, the pickup times were moved much earlier because now middle schools are at the start of the daily run for school busses rather than in the middle.
medical/human biology scientist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> youre right it doesnt take a rocket scientist - it
> takes a medical/human biology scientist and they
> told data clearly shows its the teens that benefit
> from later waking not the younger children.
That is not exactly what complete research has shown on the issue. It is instead the portion of the research that SLEEP advocates liked to quote.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because they moved Middle school times by 10 min?
> Really. Frost moved just 10 min.
Although start times for middle schools were not moved much, the pickup times were moved much earlier because now middle schools are at the start of the daily run for school busses rather than in the middle.
medical/human biology scientist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> youre right it doesnt take a rocket scientist - it
> takes a medical/human biology scientist and they
> told data clearly shows its the teens that benefit
> from later waking not the younger children.
That is not exactly what complete research has shown on the issue. It is instead the portion of the research that SLEEP advocates liked to quote.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
Complete fabrication
()
Date: October 08, 2015 01:56PM
Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> blaming a 600 second change Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Because they moved Middle school times by 10
> min?
> > Really. Frost moved just 10 min.
>
> Although start times for middle schools were not
> moved much, the pickup times were moved much
> earlier because now middle schools are at the
> start of the daily run for school busses rather
> than in the middle.
Complete fabrication - not true. Middle schoolers are NOT being picked up earlier to be taken to school. Without HS students the routes are tending to be shorter so some kids do arrive earlier at school but the pickup times are later this year.
>
> medical/human biology scientist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > youre right it doesnt take a rocket scientist -
> it
> > takes a medical/human biology scientist and
> they
> > told data clearly shows its the teens that
> benefit
> > from later waking not the younger children.
>
> That is not exactly what complete research has
> shown on the issue. It is instead the portion of
> the research that SLEEP advocates liked to quote.
'Complete research' huh, okay cite it. http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-children?page=2
http://www.howsleepworks.com/need_age.html
neither of those is from the conspiracy SLEEP mad scientists you fear.
-------------------------------------------------------
> blaming a 600 second change Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Because they moved Middle school times by 10
> min?
> > Really. Frost moved just 10 min.
>
> Although start times for middle schools were not
> moved much, the pickup times were moved much
> earlier because now middle schools are at the
> start of the daily run for school busses rather
> than in the middle.
Complete fabrication - not true. Middle schoolers are NOT being picked up earlier to be taken to school. Without HS students the routes are tending to be shorter so some kids do arrive earlier at school but the pickup times are later this year.
>
> medical/human biology scientist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > youre right it doesnt take a rocket scientist -
> it
> > takes a medical/human biology scientist and
> they
> > told data clearly shows its the teens that
> benefit
> > from later waking not the younger children.
>
> That is not exactly what complete research has
> shown on the issue. It is instead the portion of
> the research that SLEEP advocates liked to quote.
'Complete research' huh, okay cite it. http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-children?page=2
http://www.howsleepworks.com/need_age.html
neither of those is from the conspiracy SLEEP mad scientists you fear.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
Ignoring the facts
()
Date: October 08, 2015 02:05PM
Uh, SLEEP shill above: your links don't support your position. The first one gives the amount of time teens should be sleeping, and as far as I know, mandatory bedtimes were not part of the SLEEP proposal. The second one says that teenagers should wake up around 9 a.m.! That's long after the buses have left. So the start change did nothing to help that situation and a LOT to f*ck up traffic and families' schedules.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
Derpers gonna derp
()
Date: October 08, 2015 02:18PM
This thread needs more whining about transgender bathrooms!
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
Bill.N.
()
Date: October 08, 2015 08:55PM
Complete fabrication Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'Complete research' huh, okay cite it.
The usual SLEEP rant: "Studies show high school students learn better with adequate rest. Studies show typical high school students' natural sleep rhythm is to go to sleep later and wake up later. So what is wrong with you morons who won't support SLEEP!" Has it occurred to you that someone can be aware of these studies and yet could reasonably oppose the idea of starting high school an hour later?
Let's start with the most basic point. Even with the new start times, all other things being equal, high school students are still getting less than adequate sleep and still are having to get up well before the typical student's ideal rising time. We are still talking about sleep deprived high school students, only slightly less so. This is for "typical students" under the studies, and as anyone who has had teenagers can tell you, the typical student is a rare animal. When it comes to rising times you will find some will naturally get up well before the ideal time, while many others can easily sleep until noon or later.
That assumes all other things being equal which they may not be. With later start times and later end times for school you are going to have students who choose or are forced to stay up later, taking away part or all of the additional sleep time the later starts offer. Also as has become clear starting high school an hour later actually translates into being able to get up about 45 minutes later due to longer bus travel times.
So then let's move on to what studies have said about altering natural sleep schedules...or studies such as the one from Harvard which show that show environmental factors from things teens do can adversely affect their sleep cycles. I am not going to dig up cites for these again, but you can easily find comparable ones with a google search. This is before we even consider the negative effects that schools starting later will have on high school student's ability to work, to engage in after school activities or assist with the family, kids who end up with less sleep because after school activities are shifted to before school, or the effects changing high school start times has on the community.
When I am talking about complete research, I mean all of those studies which started where the research used by SLEEP advocates stopped.
The most compelling argument in favor of the current high school schedule isn't science. It is that we've already devoted enough time and resources to this fight the past two times, SLEEP advocates won at the ballot box and it is time to move on.
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'Complete research' huh, okay cite it.
The usual SLEEP rant: "Studies show high school students learn better with adequate rest. Studies show typical high school students' natural sleep rhythm is to go to sleep later and wake up later. So what is wrong with you morons who won't support SLEEP!" Has it occurred to you that someone can be aware of these studies and yet could reasonably oppose the idea of starting high school an hour later?
Let's start with the most basic point. Even with the new start times, all other things being equal, high school students are still getting less than adequate sleep and still are having to get up well before the typical student's ideal rising time. We are still talking about sleep deprived high school students, only slightly less so. This is for "typical students" under the studies, and as anyone who has had teenagers can tell you, the typical student is a rare animal. When it comes to rising times you will find some will naturally get up well before the ideal time, while many others can easily sleep until noon or later.
That assumes all other things being equal which they may not be. With later start times and later end times for school you are going to have students who choose or are forced to stay up later, taking away part or all of the additional sleep time the later starts offer. Also as has become clear starting high school an hour later actually translates into being able to get up about 45 minutes later due to longer bus travel times.
So then let's move on to what studies have said about altering natural sleep schedules...or studies such as the one from Harvard which show that show environmental factors from things teens do can adversely affect their sleep cycles. I am not going to dig up cites for these again, but you can easily find comparable ones with a google search. This is before we even consider the negative effects that schools starting later will have on high school student's ability to work, to engage in after school activities or assist with the family, kids who end up with less sleep because after school activities are shifted to before school, or the effects changing high school start times has on the community.
When I am talking about complete research, I mean all of those studies which started where the research used by SLEEP advocates stopped.
The most compelling argument in favor of the current high school schedule isn't science. It is that we've already devoted enough time and resources to this fight the past two times, SLEEP advocates won at the ballot box and it is time to move on.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
causeican
()
Date: October 08, 2015 09:19PM
What do you mean “SLEEP advocates won at the ballot box”? This question was never put on a ballot for a vote.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
Quality Watcher
()
Date: October 08, 2015 09:20PM
Complete fabrication Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill.N. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > blaming a 600 second change Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Because they moved Middle school times by 10
> > min?
> > > Really. Frost moved just 10 min.
> >
> > Although start times for middle schools were
> not
> > moved much, the pickup times were moved much
> > earlier because now middle schools are at the
> > start of the daily run for school busses rather
> > than in the middle.
>
> Complete fabrication - not true. Middle
> schoolers are NOT being picked up earlier to be
> taken to school. Without HS students the
> routes are tending to be shorter so some kids do
> arrive earlier at school but the pickup times are
> later this year.
>
> >
> > medical/human biology scientist Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > youre right it doesnt take a rocket scientist
> -
> > it
> > > takes a medical/human biology scientist and
> > they
> > > told data clearly shows its the teens that
> > benefit
> > > from later waking not the younger children.
> >
> > That is not exactly what complete research has
> > shown on the issue. It is instead the portion
> of
> > the research that SLEEP advocates liked to
> quote.
>
> 'Complete research' huh, okay cite it.
> http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-childre
> n?page=2
>
> http://www.howsleepworks.com/need_age.html
>
>
> neither of those is from the conspiracy SLEEP mad
> scientists you fear.
Hmm, the webmd link says that the old start schedule was more in tune with research (younger kids need more sleep, so high school kids should start first).
Perhaps you should read the research, but you're just like all the other SLEEP sheep.
Thanks for playing.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill.N. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > blaming a 600 second change Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Because they moved Middle school times by 10
> > min?
> > > Really. Frost moved just 10 min.
> >
> > Although start times for middle schools were
> not
> > moved much, the pickup times were moved much
> > earlier because now middle schools are at the
> > start of the daily run for school busses rather
> > than in the middle.
>
> Complete fabrication - not true. Middle
> schoolers are NOT being picked up earlier to be
> taken to school. Without HS students the
> routes are tending to be shorter so some kids do
> arrive earlier at school but the pickup times are
> later this year.
>
> >
> > medical/human biology scientist Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > youre right it doesnt take a rocket scientist
> -
> > it
> > > takes a medical/human biology scientist and
> > they
> > > told data clearly shows its the teens that
> > benefit
> > > from later waking not the younger children.
> >
> > That is not exactly what complete research has
> > shown on the issue. It is instead the portion
> of
> > the research that SLEEP advocates liked to
> quote.
>
> 'Complete research' huh, okay cite it.
> http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-childre
> n?page=2
>
> http://www.howsleepworks.com/need_age.html
>
>
> neither of those is from the conspiracy SLEEP mad
> scientists you fear.
Hmm, the webmd link says that the old start schedule was more in tune with research (younger kids need more sleep, so high school kids should start first).
Perhaps you should read the research, but you're just like all the other SLEEP sheep.
Thanks for playing.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
Garza: A vote? Thats funny
()
Date: October 08, 2015 09:41PM
causeican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you mean “SLEEP advocates won at the
> ballot box”? This question was never put on a
> ballot for a vote.
Board folded like a chair to a handful of whiney helicopter parents with hired consultants making a tidy sum in the process.
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you mean “SLEEP advocates won at the
> ballot box”? This question was never put on a
> ballot for a vote.
Board folded like a chair to a handful of whiney helicopter parents with hired consultants making a tidy sum in the process.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
lollllllllllllllllll
()
Date: October 08, 2015 09:48PM
anyone can do a study and find the results they desire. its not that tough really.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
Kaufux
()
Date: October 09, 2015 04:20PM
lollllllllllllllllll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anyone can do a study and find the results they
> desire. its not that tough really.
Will there be any measurements at the end of the school year to see if this made a difference? And did they define what success looks like? Or just change it assuming things would work out?
-------------------------------------------------------
> anyone can do a study and find the results they
> desire. its not that tough really.
Will there be any measurements at the end of the school year to see if this made a difference? And did they define what success looks like? Or just change it assuming things would work out?
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
causeican
()
Date: October 09, 2015 05:40PM
Garza: A vote? Thats funny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> causeican Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What do you mean “SLEEP advocates won at the
> > ballot box”? This question was never put on
> a
> > ballot for a vote.
>
>
> Board folded like a chair to a handful of whiney
> helicopter parents with hired consultants making a
> tidy sum in the process.
What are the names of these “whiney helicopter parents”?
-------------------------------------------------------
> causeican Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What do you mean “SLEEP advocates won at the
> > ballot box”? This question was never put on
> a
> > ballot for a vote.
>
>
> Board folded like a chair to a handful of whiney
> helicopter parents with hired consultants making a
> tidy sum in the process.
What are the names of these “whiney helicopter parents”?
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
causeican
()
Date: October 09, 2015 05:40PM
Kaufux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lollllllllllllllllll Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > anyone can do a study and find the results they
> > desire. its not that tough really.
>
>
> Will there be any measurements at the end of the
> school year to see if this made a difference? And
> did they define what success looks like? Or just
> change it assuming things would work out?
Good points.
-------------------------------------------------------
> lollllllllllllllllll Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > anyone can do a study and find the results they
> > desire. its not that tough really.
>
>
> Will there be any measurements at the end of the
> school year to see if this made a difference? And
> did they define what success looks like? Or just
> change it assuming things would work out?
Good points.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
never gonna change now
()
Date: October 12, 2015 11:13AM
causeican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kaufux Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > lollllllllllllllllll Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > anyone can do a study and find the results
> they
> > > desire. its not that tough really.
> >
> >
> > Will there be any measurements at the end of
> the
> > school year to see if this made a difference?
> And
> > did they define what success looks like? Or
> just
> > change it assuming things would work out?
>
> Good points.
For what? No way we go to status quo ante. If there are problems with the start time change, the 'fix' will be more money for buses, staff, etc.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kaufux Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > lollllllllllllllllll Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > anyone can do a study and find the results
> they
> > > desire. its not that tough really.
> >
> >
> > Will there be any measurements at the end of
> the
> > school year to see if this made a difference?
> And
> > did they define what success looks like? Or
> just
> > change it assuming things would work out?
>
> Good points.
For what? No way we go to status quo ante. If there are problems with the start time change, the 'fix' will be more money for buses, staff, etc.
Re: New Start time
Posted by:
arrogant, and expensive!
()
Date: October 12, 2015 11:23AM
causeican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate the school board for their arrogance and
> total disregard for the parents’ opinions and
> the children’s welfare. It doesn’t take a
> rocket scientist to know that the younger the
> student the later they go to school. Not the
> other way around. This is absurd.
The school board takes advantage of a requirement that they be reimbursed for training, so of course they pick training in fun places to go. Given the stupid decisions they make, they are clearly not learning much if anything.
Look at the numbers, FCPS is spending $80,000 a MONTH on travel.
FCPS does not hire scientists. They hire people with degrees in "education management" from for profit schools or online schools. These people had better hope that part of the curriculum included fast food management and retail operations as that is where they would end up if the school system ever got shaken up.
The way out of this is mess is to vote every single incumbent on the school board out of office. Yes, every single one of them! Some run unopposed so we are stuck with them, but Patty Reed and all 3 at large members have opponents, I say let's give someone else a chance.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate the school board for their arrogance and
> total disregard for the parents’ opinions and
> the children’s welfare. It doesn’t take a
> rocket scientist to know that the younger the
> student the later they go to school. Not the
> other way around. This is absurd.
The school board takes advantage of a requirement that they be reimbursed for training, so of course they pick training in fun places to go. Given the stupid decisions they make, they are clearly not learning much if anything.
Look at the numbers, FCPS is spending $80,000 a MONTH on travel.
FCPS does not hire scientists. They hire people with degrees in "education management" from for profit schools or online schools. These people had better hope that part of the curriculum included fast food management and retail operations as that is where they would end up if the school system ever got shaken up.
The way out of this is mess is to vote every single incumbent on the school board out of office. Yes, every single one of them! Some run unopposed so we are stuck with them, but Patty Reed and all 3 at large members have opponents, I say let's give someone else a chance.