Good evening. I have been asked to point out that the article in Northern Virginia Magazine linked to above reports only the protests of an applicant who has encountered a series of problems in understanding and following basic town, county, regional, and state requirements and practices related to opening the type of business contemplated.

Let me fist point out that neither Mr. Greer nor his partner, Mr. McLaughlin, has any prior experience in operating a restaurant or a brewery. They have been involved only as customers, and entered upon this project principally because they and their friends have been meeting to drink beer at Whole Foods, and they believe that this should change. They have not retained counsel, but are relying on an ability to recruit experts from elsewhere to carry out virtually everything on an as needed basis. This is not a confidence-inspiring business model.



And you, sir, are not a confidence-inspiring town official. Why do you feel it necessary to point out that neither Mr. Greer nor Mr. McLaughlin have any prior experience in operating a restaurant or brewery? Is that how you start? Is it a regulation in Vienna that one have prior successful experience in operating a particular business before applying for a license to operate? Is this the way you treat all people considering starting a business in Vienna?

And unless there are regulations in place we're not aware of, it doesn't matter what the NVRPA thinks about alcohol consumption when someone is off the bicycle trail, as long as they're not consuming alcohol while on the trail itself. No doubt people have consumed alcohol and ridden bicycles and walked on the W&OD bike path long before the Caboose brewery applied for a permit.

Sad state of affairs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2015 04:29AM by Gerrymanderer2.

The town of Vienna monitors FFXU? Was that really a post by Donald Chumley, who is on the Vienna Board of Zoning Appeals, or a clever troll?

That was an interesting cut and paste job of the official transcript of the business application hearing by the "inexperienced" owners of the Caboose brewery. You made it sound like some hipsters rolled up on skateboards into the hearing and said they wanted to set up a meth lab.

Way to welcome a business to Vienna...

Interesting...Donald Chumley just posted a similar message on the "Vienna" town thread of FFXU, saying pretty much what he said here, mainly pointing out that the two owners of the Caboose Brewery came up with their business plan while "drinking beer at Whole Foods."

Either this is the cleverest guerrilla marketing plan ever by Caboose Brewing to drum up support and interest in them, or the Town of Vienna officials are showing themselves to be world-class assholes by attacking startup businesses on this forum.

Easier Answer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> planning man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This would be so great.
>
> The easier answer would be for the "Town of
> Vienna" to just figure out how to time the lights
> through Vienna so that traffic on 123 actually
> flows. It is fucking ridiculous to have to stop
> at nearly every light. F'ing idiots.


That's on purpose. They want to curtail people from cutting through 123, so they give commuters a steady diet of traffic lights, ill timed, by design. I'd much rather grind it out on 66 than deal with 123.

Mayor of Greenbriar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's on purpose. They want to curtail people
> from cutting through 123, so they give commuters a
> steady diet of traffic lights, ill timed, by
> design. I'd much rather grind it out on 66 than
> deal with 123.

The problem with that is the same tricks which discourage people from driving THROUGH Vienna also discourage people from driving TO Vienna. This may not matter to the town residents. However if you are looking to open up a business you want your potential customers to have relatively easy access to you. There is a reason that downtown Vienna is being overrun with matress stores.

Good evening. I have been asked to point out that the article in Northern Virginia Magazine linked to above reports only the protests of an applicant who has encountered a series of problems in understanding and following basic town, county, regional, and state requirements and practices related to opening the type of business contemplated.

Let me fist point out that neither Mr. Greer nor his partner, Mr. McLaughlin, has any prior experience in operating a restaurant or a brewery. They have been involved only as customers, and entered upon this project principally because they and their friends have been meeting to drink beer at Whole Foods, and they believe that this should change. They have not retained counsel, but are relying on an ability to recruit experts from elsewhere to carry out virtually everything on an as needed basis. This is not a confidence-inspiring business model.


Are you really Donald Chumley, Are you speaking as a spokesperson for the Town of Vienna? Who "asked" you to post here...some butthurt Vienna zoning official?

Did the Caboose Brewery offend the mattress businesses in town?

This is getting good...

Babbitt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting...Donald Chumley just posted a similar
> message on the "Vienna" town thread of FFXU,
> saying pretty much what he said here, mainly
> pointing out that the two owners of the Caboose
> Brewery came up with their business plan while
> "drinking beer at Whole Foods."

Looks to me more like some guy calling himself "Northsider" read the post above and then summarized it into what he knew was a Caboose thread over in the dead-air of the Vienna town forum. As for whether Donald Chumley was the actual author of the post above, I don't know, but how many of you think that I'm really Cal Ripken, Jr.?
.
Attachments:

lots of through streets Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Used to cut right through Vienna every Tuesday
> during rush hour to get to the end of Mill Street.
> Never once travelled up or down Maple. Crossed
> it once each way, but never needed to use it.

So it seems the real problem here was that you never understood the question to begin with. It was with respect to the THROUGH-TRAFFIC that is syphoned onto 123 or various bypass routes that serve to keep it off of the neighborhood streets. If you are going to the end of Mill Street, YOU ARE NOT THROUGH-TRAFFIC!!!

A shameful Episode Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are we reduced to two schizophrenic residents of
> Vienna arguing with each other?

Just a knowledgeable and intelligent person swatting away various pesky shades of ignorant goober assfuck.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mayor of Greenbriar Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's on purpose. They want to curtail people
> > from cutting through 123, so they give commuters
> a
> > steady diet of traffic lights, ill timed, by
> > design. I'd much rather grind it out on 66 than
> > deal with 123.
>
> The problem with that is the same tricks which
> discourage people from driving THROUGH Vienna also
> discourage people from driving TO Vienna. This
> may not matter to the town residents. However if
> you are looking to open up a business you want
> your potential customers to have relatively easy
> access to you. There is a reason that downtown
> Vienna is being overrun with matress stores.

As is evident by the high value of homes and the success of small businesses. Shut the fuck up you know nothing about what you are talking about. There are a lot of businesses including Maple Avenue Restaurant, Scorpios, Church St Pizza, etc that do just fine. Commuters cutting through to get to their shitty hovels out in Sterling can stay the fuck out. We do not give a damn. You poor ass outer douchebags dont have any money to spend anyways. The town of Jerndon is perfect for you.

Mayor of Greenbriar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's on purpose. They want to curtail people
> from cutting through 123, so they give commuters a
> steady diet of traffic lights, ill timed, by
> design.

As was explained earlier, the lights are set to function just as the entrance-ramp lights to 66 do. They limit the morning flow of traffic into Tysons proper by keeping in all stacked up in stages behind the light at 123 and Gosnell/Old Courthouse. Works very well.

> I'd much rather grind it out on 66 than
> deal with 123.

Another victory for the Town planners of fifty and sixty years ago.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with that is the same tricks which
> discourage people from driving THROUGH Vienna also
> discourage people from driving TO Vienna.

Not what Mr Mill Street reported. He used to travel TO not THROUGH Vienna on Tuesdays and reported no problems. By design, there aren't any viable THROUGH-streets, so he just used to TO-streets and everything worked out just fine.

> This may not matter to the town residents. However if
> you are looking to open up a business you want your
> potential customers to have relatively easy access to you.

Who tries to go shopping during rush hour? Other than Starbucks and the like, what merchants are expecting customers at 7:30 in the morning?

> There is a reason that downtown Vienna is being overrun
> with mattress stores.

How Pavlovian. You'd of course have a much better case with respect to banks, drug stores, or standout restaurants.

Poor people stay in sterling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As is evident by the high value of homes and the
> success of small businesses. Shut the fuck up you
> know nothing about what you are talking about.
> There are a lot of businesses including Maple
> Avenue Restaurant, Scorpios, Church St Pizza, etc
> that do just fine. Commuters cutting through to
> get to their shitty hovels out in Sterling can
> stay the fuck out. We do not give a damn. You poor
> ass outer douchebags dont have any money to spend
> anyways. The town of Jerndon is perfect for you.

Even west county goobers have to get to work (at least the ones who have jobs), no matter how long it takes them. Let them sit and stew on 123 for as long as they'd like. The idea is to keep them out of local Town neighborhoods, and 123 is as good a storage place as any. There are a few bypass routes as well, but for now, those are the only options we offer. Park-and-ride on the Silver Line will one day play a larger role, as will new routes and traffic patterns between Tysons and 267. Vienna's downtown business district meanwhile thrives and will continue to.

If only there was a friendly, informal brewpub in Vienna where you could stop and enjoy a locally-made beer while you waited for traffic on Maple Ave to die down...


If only...

It isn't just rush hour. I have been around long enough to remember a time when Vienna wasn't filled with 4-way stop signs, and people from surrounding areas used to travel to Vienna to shop. When it got too dificult to drive through Vienna, they got in the habit of avoiding Vienna, and not just at rush hour. I am sure that the bistros and banks of Vienna are popular with the citizens, but for many living not too far out of town, Vienna just isn't worth the hassle.

There is an alternative. Alexandria deals with a great deal of rush hour cut through traffic. Because they have the lights on Route 1 and Washington timed though, traffic on the side streets even during rush hour is not that bad.

20018, 20037, 20041, 20109, 20110, 20111, 20112, 20147, 20148, 20164,
20165, 20166, 20170, 20171, 20190, 20191, 20192, 20194, 20813, 20814,
20816, 20817, 20824, 20827, 20847, 20848, 20849, 20850, 20851, 20852,
20853, 20857, 20874, 20875, 20876, 20877, 20878, 20879, 20882, 20884,
Northern Virginia: Alexandria, Annandale, Arlington, Ashburn, Bristow,
Burke, Centreville, Chantilly, Clifton, Dulles, Dumfries, Fairfax,
Fairfax Station, Falls Church, Gainesville, Great Falls, Herndon,
Lake Ridge, Leesburg, Lorton, Manassas, Nokesville, Oakton, Occoquan,
Quantico, Reston, South Riding, Springfield, Stafford, Sterling,
Triangle, Tysons Corner, Vienna, Woodbridge, VA Maryland: Bethesda,
Fort Washington, Potomac, Silver Spring, MD Afghan, Albanian, Algerian,
American, Andorran, Angolan, Antiguans, Argentinean, Armenian, Australian
, Austrian, Azerbaijani, Bahamian, Bahraini, Bangladeshi, Barbadian, Barbudan
, Belarusian, Belgian, Belizean, Beninese, Bhutanese, Bolivian, Bosnian, Brazilian,
British, Bruneian, Bulgarian, Burkinabe, Burundian, Cambodian, Cameroonian, Canadian,
Cape Verdean, Central African, Chadian, Chilean, Chinese, Colombian, Comoran, Congolese,
Congolese, Costa Rican, Croatian, Cuban, A Tribe Called Quest
Above The Law Aceyalone Action Bronson Aesop Rock Ali Vegas Alice Alley Boy
AMB Amil Angi3 Anthony Hamilton Arianna Puello Artes Cypriot, Czech, Danish, Djiboutian, Dominican,
East Timorese, Ecuadorean, Egyptian, Emirian, Equatoguinean, Eritrean, Estonian,
Ethiopian, Fijian, Filipino, Finnish, cell lockup penitentiary
prison bastille brig bullpen can clink cooler dungeon inside jailhouse
joint pen pound rack reformatory slammer solitary stir stockade black hole
detention camp house of correction penal institution French, Gabonese, Gambian, Georgian, German,
Ghanaian, Greek, Grenadian, Guatemalan, Guinea-bissauan, Guinean, Guyanese,
Haitian, Herzegovinian, Honduran, Hungarian, Kiribati, Icelander, Indian,
Indonesian, Iranian, Iraqi, Irish, Israeli, Italian, Ivorian, Jamaican,
Japanese, Jordanian, Kazakhstani, Kenyan, Kirghiz, Kittian, Kuwaiti,
Laotian, Latvian, Lebanese, Liberian, Libyan, Liechtensteiner, Lithuanian,
Luxembourger, Macedonian, Malagasy, Malawian, Malaysian, Maldivan, Malian,
Maltese, Marshallese, Mauritanian, Mauritian, Mexican, Micronesian, Moldovan,
Monacan, Mongolian, H - Heroin HAPPY DUST - Cocaine HARD STUFF - narcotics HASH - Marijuana HAWK - LSD
HAY - Marijuana HEAD - someone who uses drugs frequently HEAD SHOP - store specialising in the sale of drug paraphernalia
HEARTS - Dexadrine HEAVEN - Cocaine HEAVENLY BLUE - morning glory seeds; a hallucinogen
HEAVY BURNER - a person who smokes a lot of dope, a burnout HEELED - having plenty of money HERB - Marijuana
HEROIN - china white, fix, horse, smack, whack, mother pearl, H. junk
HIGH - to be intoxicated on drugs HIP-HOP - refers to a culture that includes rap music, art, dance, fashion, attitude
HIT- a single dose of drugs HOG - PCP HOLDING - in possession of drugs
HOME GROWN - locally grown Marijuana; local weed; ditch weed HOOKED - addicted
HOPPED UP - under the influence of drugs HORSE - Heroin HOT - wanted by authorities HOT SHOT - fatal injection of drugs HUFFER - glue sniffer
HUFFING - inhaling solvents from a bag HUSTLE - attempt to obtain drug customers
HYPE - narcotic addict Montenegrin, Moroccan, Mosotho, Motswana, Mozambican,
Myanmarese, Namibian, Nauruan, Nepalese, Dutch, Nevisian, New Zealander,
Ni-vanuatu, Nicaraguan, Nigerian, Nigerien, North Korean, Norwegian, Omani,
Pakistani, Palauan, Panamanian, Papua New Guinean, Paraguayan, Polish,
Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Rwandan, Saint Lucian, Salvadoran, Samoan,
San Marinese, Sao Tomean, Saudi Arabian, Senegalese, Serbian, Seychellois,
Sierra Leonean, Singaporean, Slovakian, Slovenian, Solomon Islander, Somali,
South African, South Korean, Spanish, Sri Lankan, Sudanese, Surinamer, Swazi,
Swedish, Swiss, Syrian, Taiwanese, Tajik, Tanzanian, Thai, Tobagonian, Togolese,
Tongan, Trinidadian, Tunisian, Turkish, Turkmen, Tuvaluan, Ugandan, Ukrainian,
Uruguayan, Uzbek, Venezuelan, Vietnamese, Yemeni, Zambian, Zimbabwean college
elementary school graduate school high school junior college junior high school
kindergarten nursery technical school university

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2015 10:33PM by WingNut.

If Vienna/Fairfax had the will and vision to make such a parkway decades ago, it would have taken a great deal of traffic off of Maple Ave in Vienna.

Sadly, vision is lacking in Vienna.

Vienna does have, however, frost-heaved brick walkways on Maple Avenue that brave pedestrians will try to cross on occasion...

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It isn't just rush hour. I have been around long
> enough to remember a time when Vienna wasn't
> filled with 4-way stop signs, and people from
> surrounding areas used to travel to Vienna to
> shop. When it got too dificult to drive through
> Vienna, they got in the habit of avoiding Vienna,
> and not just at rush hour. I am sure that the
> bistros and banks of Vienna are popular with the
> citizens, but for many living not too far out of
> town, Vienna just isn't worth the hassle.
>
> There is an alternative. Alexandria deals with a
> great deal of rush hour cut through traffic.
> Because they have the lights on Route 1 and
> Washington timed though, traffic on the side
> streets even during rush hour is not that bad.


^ This.

The Vienna Asshole still doesn't seem to understand that virtually nobody is going to or through Vienna during high-traffic times other than those who must be there for some reason. Mostly because they live and/or work there. They are the primary cause of the traffic. They are the ones most subject to traffic calming measures.

Everyone else just avoids it. Because they can.

Winter gloves Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If only there was a friendly, informal brewpub in
> Vienna where you could stop and enjoy a
> locally-made beer while you waited for traffic on
> Maple Ave to die down... If only...

For drinking and driving, please proceed directly to Falls Church. And for whenever Greer and McLaughlin finally get their act together, please remember that the speed limit on Mill Street is 15 mph and that the property next door is the Town filling station, meaning that police cars will be in and out of there at all hours of the day.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It isn't just rush hour. I have been around long
> enough to remember a time when Vienna wasn't
> filled with 4-way stop signs, and people from
> surrounding areas used to travel to Vienna to
> shop. When it got too dificult to drive through
> Vienna, they got in the habit of avoiding Vienna,
> and not just at rush hour. I am sure that the
> bistros and banks of Vienna are popular with the
> citizens, but for many living not too far out of
> town, Vienna just isn't worth the hassle.

That's just out-of-bounds malarkey. End of story.

> There is an alternative. Alexandria deals with a
> great deal of rush hour cut through traffic.
> Because they have the lights on Route 1 and
> Washington timed though, traffic on the side
> streets even during rush hour is not that bad.

Alexandria INTENDS to pull through-traffic into play. There are arteries beyond it in either direction that can handle all the traffic they can push through. Not a comparable situation.

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The poster who said extend Abbottsford has this
> best solution and should be promoted to county
> supervisor. It would be the shortest and quickest
> fix.

It's also certain never to happen. Might as well propose that 16th Street downtown be extended through the White House and across the Ellipse to reach Constitution Avenue. As was already pointed out, these Make-My-New-Way-Home ideas have extremely limited appeal, and the broader objectives of them are already addressed in plans for expanded Greensboro Drive and Boone Boulevard moving traffic from Tysons to 267 and Gallows Road,

Because of the creek and the bike trail, there are no existing links between Beulah and Lawyers from downtown Vienna out to Crowell Road, which is on the other side of 267. People in Vienna know that and like that.

> If you got the some of the traffic off of 123 that
> is going to turn onto Lawyers, Beulah and even
> Hunters Mill anyway, you will have accomplished a lot.

For whom? Let them eat 267! Make sure you have EZ-Pass or plenty of quarters.

> Old Courthouse might benefit from an extension of
> Spring Hill also.

Exactly the opposite of what's planned. Extended Boone Boulevard will grab westbound traffic off Spring Hill, but will then dump it onto 267. People are trying to protect established neighborhoods, not plow them under.

The first All-Starr excursion led to the release of Ringo Starr and His All-Starr Band (1990), a compilation of live performances from the tour.[153] In the same year, Starr recorded a version of the song "I Call Your Name" for a television special marking the 10th anniversary of John Lennon's death and the 50th anniversary of Lennon's birth. The track, produced by Lynne, features a supergroup composed of Lynne, Tom Petty, Joe Walsh and Jim Keltner.[154] Shell Station 9803 Richmond Highway, Lorton, VA 22079 turn at Gunston Rd do not merge onto I-95 or I-95 South. Trun left on Telegraph Road 22309 north to Rolling Road. Turn around use Fairfax County Parkway 268 old road 7100.. Stop at Springfield Mall near Pollo Rico, see Ahmed Khan.
Call warehouse for parts. You can wait at Burger King or McDonalds on Backlick Road for Jennifer or continue to Industrial Drive.the Jimi Hendrix Experience, Mitch Mitchelland Noel Redding, later said that they had been warned about a planned drug bust the day before flying to Toronto and that they believed the drugs had been planted in his bag. Hendrix was the world's highest-paid performer when he was arrested, but this was his last tour, and he died the following year

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2015 10:32PM by WingNut.

Gee Whiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's just out-of-bounds malarkey. End of story.

In other words you have no intelligent response, so you resort to an infantile one.

Vision Quest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Vienna/Fairfax had the will and vision to make
> such a parkway decades ago, it would have taken a
> great deal of traffic off of Maple Ave in Vienna.

When the Vienna Inn opened in 1960, Fairfax County did not yet have a hospital. Building a cool way for you to get to work one day was not a priority. It still isn't.

> Sadly, vision is lacking in Vienna.

Seems like the vision of keeping all you suckers cooped up out on 123 during rush hour worked out just fine. You know, being an actual town offers so much more to residents than some nazi-dominated HOA in one of those god-forsaken Census-designated places.

> Vienna does have, however, frost-heaved brick
> walkways on Maple Avenue that brave pedestrians
> will try to cross on occasion...

Sort of like Georgetown, Capitol Hill, countless college campuses, and the homes of millionaires around the world.

Gee Whiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Winter gloves Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If only there was a friendly, informal brewpub
> in
> > Vienna where you could stop and enjoy a
> > locally-made beer while you waited for traffic
> on
> > Maple Ave to die down... If only...
>
> For drinking and driving, please proceed directly
> to Falls Church. And for whenever Greer and
> McLaughlin finally get their act together, please
> remember that the speed limit on Mill Street is 15
> mph and that the property next door is the Town
> filling station, meaning that police cars will be
> in and out of there at all hours of the day.


The Caboose Brewery would not be appropriate for binge-drinking alcoholics like you

w9HLD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Vienna Asshole still doesn't seem to understand
> that virtually nobody is going to or through Vienna
> during high-traffic times other than those who must
> be there for some reason.

That was the whole plan, dummy. Keep the out-of-towners out of the local neighborhoods by stacking them up to stew on 123 or having them use a bypass route to avoid Vienna entirely.

> Mostly because they live and/or work there. They
> are the primary cause of the traffic. They are
> the ones most subject to traffic calming measures.

Wrong. 123 is all but exclusively boondocks-to-Tysons traffic in the morning and back again the other way at night. People who live in the Vienna area know not to go near the place at problem hours.

> Everyone else just avoids it. Because they can.

Yay! If you're not in the local neighborhoods, you are alright with Vienna. Use 123 all you like. Use bypass routes all you like. That's what Vienna has always wanted you to do. Today's residents applaud you for your understanding and cooperation.

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Gee Whiz- I never heard of a plan to expand
> Boone or Greensboro, would love to see whats
> cookin' there. If you have a link post it!

Did you think to google comprehensive plan for Tysons? No?

> My take on getting traffic off 123 is there are a
> lot of people who are heading NW and will turn
> onto Beulah, Lawyers eventually. Alleviate some of
> the bullshit waiting in traffic may be a great
> thing for downtown Vienna.

Everyone turns off 123 eventually. Vienna and area residents along close-in Beulah and Lawyers are not likely to do anything but cross 123 during rush hour. Those further out take the back ways out. There has been a big surge in that now that the Silver Line is open. If you're heading NW out of Tysons, use 7 West or 267 West. That's what those roads are there for. Schlepping through Vienna is NOT the actual plan. Neither is bulldozing established neighborhoods to make such schlepping any easier.

> If I lived on Abbottsford, I wouldn't want it, but
> if I lived elsewhere in Vienna, I'd want ground
> broken tomorrow.

People in and around Vienna just aren't like that. We try to keep the goober fucking assholes out, you know. Sounds like we should be glad it's working so well in your case.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In other words you have no intelligent response,
> so you resort to an infantile one.

No. In other words, that was one of the stupidest dumb-ass things you've ever posted. It deserved nothing more rewarding than a sharp kick in the nuts, so here without further ado is one of those.

Your memory for starters is fucking shot to shit. Vienna has ALWAYS had large numbers of 4-way stops. Also dead-ends, curves, and cul-de-sacs. It does have more speed humps, speed bumps, and perhaps worse yet -- dips -- than it once had. Those are put in place because residents request them and subsequent analysis shows that the request is justified, any breach of the Town's original intent regarding traffic being grounds for proceeding with new and appropriate defensive measures.

Meanwhile, in all existing worlds but the incomparably dumbfuck one that you inhabit, people continue to pour into Vienna daily for appointments, shopping, and dining just as they always have. If you try to traverse Vienna as if you were some dirtbag through-trafficker at the wrong hour, you WILL be deservedly delayed. Any other tactic has long worked well and still does. The "hassles" you fear in your worsening state of dementia are about as rationally worrisome as elephant stampedes.

Hope you enjoyed and benefited from the reply I skipped over earlier for being so obvious as to be completely unnecessary. Do feel free if you like to plunge now into some asswipe mattress store rebuttal rant. Prove that you finally have fallen to the level below which no actual human being can fall.

Nathan's Hot Dog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Caboose Brewery would not be appropriate for
> binge-drinking alcoholics like you

Ooh, ouch! Why are you so mean? Assuming meanwhile that these two slow-pokes can ever actually get the place open at all, they will be able to serve beer and wine only. No hard stuff. Not sure how many suds-suckers or chardonnay- shooters there are out there to worry about, but it's likely that CBC will not be much of a home for bingers at all. Still an open question as to whether anybody else will care about it either. After all, maybe a lot of people are perfectly happy drinking beer at Whole Foods.

Four postings in a row by Cheeze Whizz...


Not even close to a record...


Sad.

Gee Whiz either your memory of Vienna dates from the 1980s on, or you are full of shit. You throw out "When the Vienna Inn opened in 1960, Fairfax County did not yet have a hospital. Building a cool way for you to get to work one day was not a priority." I don't remember Vienna Inn's opening, but I was dining at a restaurant down the block just a few years later. You neglect to mention that in the 1970s when traffic from Reston started coming through Vienna, and later in the 1980s as the areas to the northwest of Vienna started seeing intensive development, there was little effort on Vienna's part to try and figure out ways to facilitate those people moving through town as quickly as possible. The only significant improvement was the widening of Nutlee to the south.

We get it. Vienna citizens would be happy to have no traffic cutting through their town. The ridiculous rejoinder to this would be "Let's cut Nutlee south of Vienna and 123 east of town and end any desire to cut through town. That Vienna would whither would be a bonus." The wise course of action though for any part of NoVa though is to recognize that ours is part of a larger whole.

If you read what some have posted here though, including some with very divergent points of view, what you are seeing is that there are ways that to make it easier to move through Vienna which would not cause a significant inconvenience on the residents of the town or those who live nearby.

I admit the mattress store was a cheap shot. Ask yourself this though. "If I lived a few miles outside of Vienna, why would I go there?" That is the thing that has changed. I remember when people in the neighborhood I lived in stopped going to Magruders because it was too much of a hassle. Those same people now drive further to get to Wegmans.

This should be interesting.

Let's see how Gee Whiz responds to polite logic and reason.

This will not end well.

Colorado's Mike Moss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Four postings in a row by Cheeze Whizz...
> Not even close to a record...
> Sad.

Colorado's Mike Moss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Four postings in a row by Cheeze Whizz...
> > Not even close to a record...
> > Sad.

Should have ended '

"You're an assfuck"

Not sure where that part went.

Goober Gobble Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This should be interesting. Let's see how Gee Whiz
> responds to polite logic and reason. This will not
> end well.

You're an assfuck also.

Goober Gobble Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This should be interesting.
>
> Let's see how Gee Whiz responds to polite logic
> and reason.
>
> This will not end well.


Logic and reason are lost on this dolt. You can fit his brain in a thimble.

Cheeze Whiz is just pissed because he's stuck in the house until traffic dies down on Maple.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gee Whiz either your memory of Vienna dates from
> the 1980s on, or you are full of shit.

It dates from the late 1960's, and as an earlier post pointed out, I am not the one who is "full of shit".

> You throw out "When the Vienna Inn opened in 1960,
> Fairfax County did not yet have a hospital. Building a
> cool way for you to get to work one day was not a
> priority." I don't remember Vienna Inn's opening,
> but I was dining at a restaurant down the block
> just a few years later.

There were nice restaurants in Vienna then, and there are even more now. But the point was to underscore that "decades ago" was a time quite different from today in quite fundamental ways.

> You neglect to mention that in the 1970s when traffic
> from Reston started coming through Vienna, and later in
> the 1980s as the areas to the northwest of Vienna started
> seeing intensive development, there was little effort on
> Vienna's part to try and figure out ways to facilitate
> those people moving through town as quickly as possible.

Reston is what's northwest of Vienna. What's in between is mostly Hunters Valley, which has seen none of this "intensive development." Meanwhile, Vienna itself has no interest in or obligation to outsiders and their desires to clog up Vienna streets in mad attempts to assuage their own buyer's remorse at having moved so far away from places of shopping and employment. Say it with me: Oops!

> The only significant improvement was the widening of
> Nutlee to the south.

It's "Nutley" with a "y". And was this really Vienna's work? Are you sure this was not VDOT out working on a state or county project that happened to be in or near Vienna?

> We get it. Vienna citizens would be happy to have
> no traffic cutting through their town.

Correct. And as a proper town, they have the power and means to discourage your flaunting of their preferences.

> The ridiculous rejoinder to this would be "Let's cut
> Nutlee south of Vienna and 123 east of town and
> end any desire to cut through town. That Vienna
> would whither would be a bonus." The wise course
> of action though for any part of NoVa though is to
> recognize that ours is part of a larger whole.

Are you at Whole Foods hanging out with the Caboose boys?

> If you read what some have posted here though,
> including some with very divergent points of view,
> what you are seeing is that there are ways that to
> make it easier to move through Vienna which would
> not cause a significant inconvenience on the
> residents of the town or those who live nearby.

So far, I have seen proposals to bulldoze the golf course and then level significant parts of various well- and long-established neighborhoods. These are not attractive offers. They further run counter to sensible principles of development. Poor babies seem to feel that it takes them too long to get to work? Move or get a new job. Let's man up, here. Don't expect to solve your petty problems by trying to pile them on the backs of the people of Vienna.

> I admit the mattress store was a cheap shot.

Well, yeah.

> Ask yourself this though. "If I lived a few miles
> outside of Vienna, why would I go there?"

I do live outside Vienna. Today I drove through a sizable chunk of town to get to the dentist. Vienna was not involved in a subsequent trip to the Giant in Oakton but did come into play again this evening when I picked up a prescription. Those who live where I live orbit a binary star. The smaller one is Oakton. The larger one is Vienna. All of us here I'm quite sure go to each of them with astonishing regularity. It's easy either way.

> That is the thing that has changed. I remember
> when people in the neighborhood I lived in stopped
> going to Magruders because it was too much of a
> hassle. Those same people now drive further to
> get to Wegmans.

More likely because Wegman's opened and they lived in proximity to Fair Lakes to begin with. After all, it's been a good number of years now since Magruder's was a go-to grocery for anyone. But maybe these folks ought to try Vienna's Fresh Market. I hear some people love it.

Screw all that. Vienna should build a street car line.

Donald Chumley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Good evening. I have been asked to point out an applicant who has encountered a series of problems in understanding

>They have not retained counsel,

> an earlier miscalculation.

> did not know how many parking spaces they would be required to provide

> not aware of requirements to provide handicapped spaces.

> had yet to develop a plan for dumpster placement

> had not yet prepared estimates of refuse volume.

> applications to VABC components had been filed in the wrong order.

> that cyclists could leave their bicycles wherever they wanted while inside.

> Briefly, delays and difficulties encountered by
> the applicants have resulted from their own
> inexperience and unfamiliarity with the process.

In summary, Mr. Chumley identifies one of Vienna's worst problems: failure to view small business owners (as opposed to chain mattress stores) as CUSTOMERS of their services. I bet he or his staff could have solved every one of these issues in real time, with the right attitude, but they don't view that as their job.

When I opened my first business in Fairfax County (Not Vienna, or worse, Fairfax City, thank God) years ago, there was an entire team at the Fairfax County Government Center who helped me through all the regulations and requirements, often allowing me to make hand corrections and provide estimates for the data they required. Many times I thought I would be sent home to gather more data, only to have the staff look it up for me and send me on to the next step of permitting.

Vienna blames new business owners for being fools rather than trying to help them through their complicated process. The result is that the town is full of McDonald-like chains that no one from out of town would come to visit.

The OP was right: Best solution for Vienna is a Parkway through town, with continuous sound walls so Vienna can be ignored.

Silver Line Commuter. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Screw all that. Vienna should build a street car line.

Like all the great cities of the world?

More like Arlington specifically.

Owner of Small Businesses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The OP was right: Best solution for Vienna is a
> Parkway through town, with continuous sound walls
> so Vienna can be ignored.

I take it your "business" failed then? What a shock.

Vienna does not have a traffic problem. Out-of-towners hoping to be sped along at the expense of others may well have a traffic problem.

Meanwhile, businesses must be able to comply with the law, and persons claiming to be "entrepreneurs" are supposed to have a handle on things relevant to their businesses. The Caboose people have simply not properly prepared themselves for the tasks they have had at hand. Yet despite all their failings and missed deadlines, here they still are, hacking away at the soil and hoping to open only a year late as the result of their serial fumbles. This is because the Town LIKES their concept and believes that the pub would enhance the town and that neighborhood. The Lord helps those who help themselves, however. There aren't a lot of promises for the rest, particularly not long-term promises.

Gee Whiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill.N. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gee Whiz either your memory of Vienna dates
> from
> > the 1980s on, or you are full of shit.
>
> It dates from the late 1960's, and as an earlier
> post pointed out, I am not the one who is "full of
> shit".
>

Yes, Actually... you are.

Unconvinced Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I take it your "business" failed then? What a
> shock.
>

Three are doing well, thank you. The first one I shut down when the rent increase reduced profits to the not-worth-the-time level. That was a learning experience about lease arrangements with a certain management company and what triple-net really means.

My point remains: Fairfax County is easy for start-ups relative to the towns/cities.

Gee Whiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Goober Gobble Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This should be interesting. Let's see how Gee
> Whiz
> > responds to polite logic and reason. This will
> not
> > end well.
>
> You're an assfuck also.


Sorry, I'm taken.

LoLz

Good morning, Please go to the link below and you will see that the Town of Vienna has extended every courtesy to the two amateur beer enthusiasts who want to establish a business in Vienna.



http://www.viennava.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/1963

CFMtw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Actually... you are.

LOL! Go jump off a cliff, you worthless horse-fearing solar eclipse denier. Dumber than you, they just don't come! And your stupid city is a total shit-hole as well. Passed its prime long ago and completely overshadowed now by the far more upscale burgs to the west. Let the bulldozing continue! Sweep it all away!

Owner of Small Businesses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My point remains: Fairfax County is easy for
> start-ups relative to the towns/cities.

It came as a surprise to you that municipal ordinances would come into play? People think a business is like putting up a model train set in the basement. That's not at all how it works. There are lots and lots of ducks to get lined up, and none of that is a guaranty of anything at all, just as the CBC boys are slowly starting to learn.

The Caboosers do show a lot in comparison to the assfucks around here though. These local goober fucktards will never learn a damned thing, thereby continuing a trend begun at birth.