The 670 dollars was for a service call and a capacitor and the guy was only here 20 minutes. Seems expensive but it did fix the A-C.

Was it a flux capacitor? $670 is pretty cheap for one of those.

ask for a detailed invoice, with individual line item charges. it probably didn't include all the muffler bearings and use of specialized equipment, like a cable stretcher. so, yes, 670 for a capacitor is very reasonable.

Yes you were ripped off.

If you used Micheal & Son, this is one of the reasons.

Most capacitors are under $20 wholesale. You can probably get them on Amazon or ebay if if you do not have access to purchase them wholesale.

Some HVAC repair shops install "hard start kits" along with replacing the regular capacitors. The "hard start kits" are probably around $75 wholesale.

But put together a service charge and parts, most HVAC service groups charge between $250-$350 for this.

But, $670, are you fing kidding me?? This is double what the expected rate should be.

Just a case of charging a lot of money due to demand.

I am not a HVAC guy, but know a few and keep capacitors in stock at home, they always fail and I often repair friends and families systems during the summer.

When was it done? On the weekend? After normal business hours? Overtime rates are usually 1.5 times regular rates and some companies charge a minimum for overtime calls, some even up to four hours. Get a detailed invoice and let us know.
And you have to remember that you are paying for what the tech knows, not how long he's there. If he can fix it in 20 min, so what? Would you rather pay an inexperienced rookie who would have taken 3 hours to get to that point?

I have had that done twice and both times were $150.

Knowledge is the key to happiness. Others make money due to someone's else's laziness to learn.

Name the company or STFU!

I thought I got raped, Paid $315 for a double cap, whatever that is

I live in a hi-rise condo. Cropp-Metcalf charged me $220 to replace the capacitor in my in-wall HVAC unit.

As you can see many have had this same basic repair performed for under $250.

So again, we need to know EXACTLY what was done and when.

As mentioned, maybe weekend or evening could have been part of the expense. Difficulty reaching the condensing unit. Did they verify or adjust the refrigerant charge? Was a "Hard Start" kit added in addition to the replacement capacitor?

What company did the work? Might be helpful to know who may really be fleecing customers.

Yes. You were overcharged if what you are saying is accurate. I see this often in this business. A capacitor is 20 to 30 dollars on most units. Should take 15 20 minutes. We also check the whole unit and make recommendations as needed. Even so, 150 to 250 would be normal. Look at your invoice and in the future, dont be rushed or intimidated by any service provider. Get a clear understanding of what the problem is, what specifically they are doing to repair it, what exactly they are changing, what parts will be used and how much they will cost. Never allow any work without a signed contract with everything specified. Virginia law favours the contractor once the work has been completed. If you have a written contract, nothing verbal is considered. Any changes MUST be in writting. An ammended contract with notes hand written and initialed supersedes a printed contract. If you call the company and calmy press your case, I suspect they will work with you. If you paid by credit card, contest the charge as over billing only if the company refuses to deal with you rreasonably first. Get written estimates from two other companies( explain why you want them to be fair) and pay the $30 small claims fee and file a court case as a last resort. The credit card contestment is not going to stand on it's own for long as you willingly signed a contract and buyer's remorse isn't a valid defense. Good luck.

FCcLH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As you can see many have had this same basic
> repair performed for under $250.
>
> So again, we need to know EXACTLY what was done
> and when.
>
> As mentioned, maybe weekend or evening could have
> been part of the expense. Difficulty reaching the
> condensing unit. Did they verify or adjust the
> refrigerant charge? Was a "Hard Start" kit added
> in addition to the replacement capacitor?
>
> What company did the work? Might be helpful to
> know who may really be fleecing customers.

I wouldn't be surprised if they lied about it - it happens. Maybe it was a frayed or corroded wire going to the capacitor. That happened to me and I fixed it myself. Their are some honest people in various businesses, like auto mechanics, and many others that totally screw people.

Like the one poster said. Knowledge is key!

If you are handy and can learn from a YouTube video it isn't hard at all, I replace my own. Saves money for sure, but more importantly I can get the AC back up and running right away instead of either waiting through the weekend or paying out the ass, they always go out on a Friday afternoon. That's one of those parts that I reorder one of as soon as I use one so I know there's one on the shelf.

Now you know why there are so many HVAC commercials on TV.

townhouse dweller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 670 dollars was for a service call and a
> capacitor and the guy was only here 20 minutes.
> Seems expensive but it did fix the A-C.

I bought 2 different models of starter capacitors on eBay (in case one didn't work as planned) for about $13 total and free shipping 5 years ago. One of them fixed the problem but since I had two, I went ahead and connected the second in parallel. Compressor kicked on faster than ever with no starting hum and still does today. Took about 15 minutes to install. I am an electrical engineer so I sort of knew what to do. $100-200 is reasonable depending on demand and workload. $670 is definitely a ripoff for what was replaced and the time it took.

The contactor switch (compressor relay) is another thing to look out for. Mine is a single pole and somehow welded itself closed a 3 years ago. All I had to do was disconnect the mains, pop it back open with a screwdriver and clean the contacts. Been good ever since.

Why did you do that? Did you buy the wrong capacitance capacitor?

Mike O'Meara Show Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why did you do that? Did you buy the wrong
> capacitance capacitor?

One was a cheap Chinese one (still works) and the other was from a domestic seller and it had high reviews/ratings. They were both inexpensive enough to not bother waiting for the other if one didn't do the job so I just went ahead and ordered both. I think they are different capacitances, I'd have to look. No matter, in parallel they add and more gives a better kick to the compressor motor. They're both there still doing the job.

yes. they're $15-$45 depending on size

they are flip the switch and screwdriver simple to install.

the symptom is motor turns on and off during normal cycle - or even motor will not turn on

while low air speed they usually sell "who house vent cleaning" which doesn't disinfect the vents!! low airspeed is often due to fan imbalance ("impeller" the ruskies call it)

KNkvL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes you were ripped off.
>
> If you used Micheal & Son, this is one of the
> reasons.
>
> Most capacitors are under $20 wholesale. You can
> probably get them on Amazon or ebay if if you do
> not have access to purchase them wholesale.
>
> Some HVAC repair shops install "hard start kits"
> along with replacing the regular capacitors. The
> "hard start kits" are probably around $75
> wholesale.
>
> But put together a service charge and parts, most
> HVAC service groups charge between $250-$350 for
> this.
>
> But, $670, are you fing kidding me?? This is
> double what the expected rate should be.
>
> Just a case of charging a lot of money due to
> demand.
>
> I am not a HVAC guy, but know a few and keep
> capacitors in stock at home, they always fail and
> I often repair friends and families systems during
> the summer.


It was a "Turbo 200" universal capacitor and they sell for just under 60 bucks on Amazon. I am going to call the company tomorrow and politely complain. If they dont make it right I will name the company. I am going to ask for 300 dollars back. Thanks for all the responses!

For those who do not know what size capacitor they need, you could spend the money on a Turbo 200 capacitor, but they are expensive compared to the proper capacitor.

Around $60 or you could find it also on ebay for maybe less.

https://www.amazon.com/Turbo-Capacitor-Universal-200-Motors/dp/B007IAYLH8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1465942420&sr=8-2&keywords=universal+capacitor

Failed capacitors in outdoor condensing units are COMMON. If you are smart, you would just replace it every 4-5 years and keep any that are not swollen or leaking on the shelf.

Pull out the service disconnect and/or turn off the circuit breaker. If the service disconnect is fused, buy spare fuses NOW. Keep them in a safe place so you can find them. Learn what they look like, open up the access panel, look for them to be leaking liquid or swollen, if they are they need to be replaced. Make sure you read the value and order spares. Take pictures or make a diagram, There are usually 3 terminals on most capacitors. Some have more than 1 wire connected to the terminals. Just keep things organized, use a permanent marker to write on the capacitor or inside the access panel.

This is not rocket science. Just turn off the power, short the capacitor with a screw driver or jumper wire. Pay attention to the wiring and use the proper size device, you will be back in business in 20 minutes.

We need to see the bill from the first post. I believe there are more to just capacitor.

for $670 you'd be hard pressed to take a "mechanic" to court (noting they are illegals and not qualified, only one person in company is)

#1 on site fee

#2 analysis fee

#3 part fee (was it $100 for part?, 2x the higest price is common)

#4 mechanic's feduciary work insurance
(if it fails in a year due to labor, they must replace it free)

because that comes to some hundres, and "markups" must be significantly high for a judge to take offense at them, becasue also you have some duty to "hold your wallet tight" so the rest of us dont' have to mind it for you ...

your stuck with it, and can only argue with them to recover some back, quoting them prices from other companies, etc

Sucking cock will get you a 25% discount. The complete blow job with swallow completion entitles you to the 50% deluxe discount.

Capacitor s are very dangerous. If not properly discharged they can knock you on your ass even when the power has been disconnected. Some of the board s in the unit are not only easy to damage and expensive, but only licensed technicians can purchase them. Be careful not to get in over your head skill wise. Many problems have the same symptoms. I worked extensively with capacitors in the military and they are also capable of stopping your heart under the right circumstances. Just be careful. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

you'll find out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Capacitor s are very dangerous. If not properly
> discharged they can knock you on your ass even
> when the power has been disconnected. Some of the
> board s in the unit are not only easy to damage
> and expensive, but only licensed technicians can
> purchase them. Be careful not to get in over your
> head skill wise. Many problems have the same
> symptoms. I worked extensively with capacitors in
> the military and they are also capable of stopping
> your heart under the right circumstances. Just be
> careful. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

My buddy stuck his tongue on one like people do with 9 volt batteries to see if there any juice left in it. There was.

Lifted every hair on his head, and knocked him out of his chair. Missed the next day of work as well.

EE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike O'Meara Show Fan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why did you do that? Did you buy the wrong
> > capacitance capacitor?
>
> One was a cheap Chinese one (still works) and the
> other was from a domestic seller and it had high
> reviews/ratings. They were both inexpensive
> enough to not bother waiting for the other if one
> didn't do the job so I just went ahead and ordered
> both. I think they are different capacitances,
> I'd have to look. No matter, in parallel they add
> and more gives a better kick to the compressor
> motor. They're both there still doing the job.

A REAL Electrical Engineer would KNOW if they were different capacitances and wouldn't have done what you say you did.

Shocking Experience Wrote:
>
> My buddy stuck his tongue on one like people do
> with 9 volt batteries to see if there any juice
> left in it. There was.
>
> Lifted every hair on his head, and knocked him out
> of his chair. Missed the next day of work as well.

I have tested a 22.5 Volt battery on my tongue and almost swallowed it.

Testing a capacitor on your tongue, not sure I would ever even consider trying that.

I guess your buddy had his guts hurting for a few days.

townhouse dweller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 670 dollars was for a service call and a
> capacitor and the guy was only here 20 minutes.
> Seems expensive but it did fix the A-C.


If you agreed to pay the 670 then no ,you did not get ripped off.

This is America and people can charge whatever the fuck they want for anything and you as a consumer have the right to agree to the price or not. If you agreed to the price before the work was done and signed a work order you have no right to complain. Now fuck off.

I paid $100 once. It took the about 10 mins. The repair guy gave me the old capacitor so I Google the brand and the model and found out that the capacitor alone cost $53.

Shocking Experience Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you'll find out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Capacitor s are very dangerous. If not properly
> > discharged they can knock you on your ass even
> > when the power has been disconnected. Some of
> the
> > board s in the unit are not only easy to damage
> > and expensive, but only licensed technicians
> can
> > purchase them. Be careful not to get in over
> your
> > head skill wise. Many problems have the same
> > symptoms. I worked extensively with capacitors
> in
> > the military and they are also capable of
> stopping
> > your heart under the right circumstances. Just
> be
> > careful. A little knowledge is a dangerous
> thing.
>
> My buddy stuck his tongue on one like people do
> with 9 volt batteries to see if there any juice
> left in it. There was.
>
> Lifted every hair on his head, and knocked him out
> of his chair. Missed the next day of work as well.


I bet he was all amped up after he ohmost got killed. I bet the yelled "That hertz". You cant do stuff like that with any frequency. Did his toung get fused?

yupr tree try g Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought I got raped, Paid $315 for a double cap,
> whatever that is


The fan and compressor caps might be combined into a single unit.

Caps in parallel do add. From a physics view, you are increasing the plate area.

However, I would use the suggested cap size. The cap causes a phase delay between the rotor and stator. The wrong phase delay could result in more power, less power, spinning wrong direction etc. More power is potentially bad because the extra heat may not have been part of the original design concern. YMMV, my AC power class was quite a long time ago though.

You paid it because you couldn't fix it. If you don't like it, either invest the time and money in tools, years of training, find a job in the field, work your way up to a service mechanic and fix it yourself, or continue to pay for a service mechanic to fix what you can't.

Otherwise your stuck paying for what you don't know. Knowledge isn't free.

for these capacitors ... short both old and new capacitor with a screwdriver before touching

they are aluminum foil + wax paper pretty much (and can be replaced by smaller newer longer life kind which are more expensive and more a bother to install)

a $30 multimeter can test capacitance. a resistance check can check for a shorted capacitor. likely neither test will determine anything for your case. you would know by a load test and in this case the motor symptoms tell you that.

Had one replaced at the suggestion of the service guy last year. I think he charged me $75 for it, and the service call was $70 I think (but he was mainly there to replace fan motor). So it would have about about $150 after all fees for it.

Ac_guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You paid it because you couldn't fix it. If you
> don't like it, either invest the time and money in
> tools, years of training, find a job in the field,
> work your way up to a service mechanic and fix it
> yourself, or continue to pay for a service
> mechanic to fix what you can't.
>
> Otherwise your stuck paying for what you don't
> know. Knowledge isn't free.

Put another way, he paid it because he was naive and an HVAC guy took him for a ride. With travel, that call took two hours out of the HVACs day tops, of which 15 minutes was probably the time it took to do the work.

Mr Ac_guy, you seem to think it was ok for the HVAC guy to screw him. Thing is, now that the OP knows this I'm sure he'll never give that company more business. And this kind of behavior give's everyone in that industry a bad name. If I was the OP I would be thinking "hey this company screwed me, are they all like that?"

townhouse dweller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 670 dollars was for a service call and a
> capacitor and the guy was only here 20 minutes.
> Seems expensive but it did fix the A-C.


That was reasonable, cheap even. Should be about 800.

Ac_guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You paid it because you couldn't fix it. If you
> don't like it, either invest the time and money in
> tools, years of training, find a job in the field,
> work your way up to a service mechanic and fix it
> yourself, or continue to pay for a service
> mechanic to fix what you can't.
>
> Otherwise your stuck paying for what you don't
> know. Knowledge isn't free.


Yea it takes years of training to have the skills to change a capacitor. Removing a panel and unplugging a few wires is really challenging work. Fuck getting a new one on ebay for $20, I'm going to call Michael and Sons for an $800 replacement.

You got fucked in the ass, at least you got A-C.
Attachments:

It takes about 500 bucks to get a fully stocked and staffed service van to pull up to a house. $670 for a service call and capacitor replacement is too low. The company would go out of business in no time.

Amazon sells the capacitors for AC units for around $18 with one day shipping.
I just replaced my blower motor capacitor 3 weeks ago. The replacement took all of 5 minutes. Youtube has plenty of videos of how to do the replacement safely and how to test to see if the capacitor is bad.

For the indoor blower motor, to test it you can turn on the AC and if the motor is not spinning then turn the shaft of the blower fan by spinning it by hand and if the motor runs when you do that then the capacitor is bad.

If your A/C needed a capacitor and that is the company's price for replacing one as part of your service call, then NO you did not get ripped off. A business has no legal or moral duty to match the lowest price others would charge just because they are there, any more than you have a legal or moral duty to let them fix the problem because they diagnosed it.

KNkvL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes you were ripped off.
>
> If you used Micheal & Son, this is one of the
> reasons.
>
> Most capacitors are under $20 wholesale. You can
> probably get them on Amazon or ebay if if you do
> not have access to purchase them wholesale.
>
> Some HVAC repair shops install "hard start kits"
> along with replacing the regular capacitors. The
> "hard start kits" are probably around $75
> wholesale.
>
> But put together a service charge and parts, most
> HVAC service groups charge between $250-$350 for
> this.
>
> But, $670, are you fing kidding me?? This is
> double what the expected rate should be.
>
> Just a case of charging a lot of money due to
> demand.
>
> I am not a HVAC guy, but know a few and keep
> capacitors in stock at home, they always fail and
> I often repair friends and families systems during
> the summer.

I was a helper for an AC company and this guy is right on.

HVAC guys make their money by sizing up the customer to see what they can get away with charging. Always get an estimate first and then tell them you want a second opinion if it's over $500.

We would buy systems for about $1500 and then charge $7000 to install them. $5000 was complete profit made in one-day of installation.

chantilly_resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amazon sells the capacitors for AC units for
> around $18 with one day shipping.
> I just replaced my blower motor capacitor 3 weeks
> ago. The replacement took all of 5 minutes.
> Youtube has plenty of videos of how to do the
> replacement safely and how to test to see if the
> capacitor is bad.
>
> For the indoor blower motor, to test it you can
> turn on the AC and if the motor is not spinning
> then turn the shaft of the blower fan by spinning
> it by hand and if the motor runs when you do that
> then the capacitor is bad.


Wow. That is some very ignorant advice.

electrical1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chantilly_resident Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Amazon sells the capacitors for AC units for
> > around $18 with one day shipping.
> > I just replaced my blower motor capacitor 3
> weeks
> > ago. The replacement took all of 5 minutes.
> > Youtube has plenty of videos of how to do the
> > replacement safely and how to test to see if
> the
> > capacitor is bad.
> >
> > For the indoor blower motor, to test it you can
> > turn on the AC and if the motor is not spinning
> > then turn the shaft of the blower fan by
> spinning
> > it by hand and if the motor runs when you do
> that
> > then the capacitor is bad.
>
>
> Wow. That is some very ignorant advice.


Except for the indoor part. For example my indoor motor uses a ECM motor so that test would not work.

If it's an ECM motor not starting chances are the motor is bad, you can buy refurbished ones on ebay for around $150. Changing it is also really easy.


(I'm just a homeowner that has done lots of research and DIY my HVAC).

electrical1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chantilly_resident Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Amazon sells the capacitors for AC units for
> > around $18 with one day shipping.
> > I just replaced my blower motor capacitor 3
> weeks
> > ago. The replacement took all of 5 minutes.
> > Youtube has plenty of videos of how to do the
> > replacement safely and how to test to see if
> the
> > capacitor is bad.
> >
> > For the indoor blower motor, to test it you can
> > turn on the AC and if the motor is not spinning
> > then turn the shaft of the blower fan by
> spinning
> > it by hand and if the motor runs when you do
> that
> > then the capacitor is bad.
>
>
> Wow. That is some very ignorant advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozOhWeIk_Hs

chantilly_resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> electrical1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > chantilly_resident Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Amazon sells the capacitors for AC units for
> > > around $18 with one day shipping.
> > > I just replaced my blower motor capacitor 3
> > weeks
> > > ago. The replacement took all of 5 minutes.
> > > Youtube has plenty of videos of how to do the
> > > replacement safely and how to test to see if
> > the
> > > capacitor is bad.
> > >
> > > For the indoor blower motor, to test it you
> can
> > > turn on the AC and if the motor is not
> spinning
> > > then turn the shaft of the blower fan by
> > spinning
> > > it by hand and if the motor runs when you do
> > that
> > > then the capacitor is bad.
> >
> >
> > Wow. That is some very ignorant advice.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozOhWeIk_Hs


That is a very ignorant video. The guy never checked the voltage, amp draw, mfd value, hertz. He just throws a new cap in and says fuck it. That is how houses burn down.

Change your air filters monthly faggots.
Next, when it’s 90+ degrees outside, heavy companies charge way more bc of demand.
Get a mini split and you won’t encounter these issues.
Fujitsu makes the best ones

Service fee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Change your air filters monthly faggots.
> Next, when it’s 90+ degrees outside, heavy
> companies charge way more bc of demand.
> Get a mini split and you won’t encounter these
> issues.
> Fujitsu makes the best ones


You give shitty and ignorant advise.

Most filters are fine for 90 days.
Fujitsu sucks, Mitsubishi is the best by far.
Fuck you.

You are all cunts.

Waddle-doodle! AMF!

Did he rotate 5he air in the tires?