FCPS, along with the Principal of TJ, has decided to screw every kid in that school by eliminating GPAs for ALL students. Unlike the rest of the county high schools, no TJ course will receive ANY weighting. In addition, TJ kids will have NO GPAs on their transcripts when they apply to college.
http://publications.tjhsst.edu/tjtoday/2000/article.phtml?ed=September%202009&i=1906

Only at TJ will a PE class count the same as AP calculus and Quantum physics. Only at TJ will students have a lower GPA than anywhere other student in the county. Only at TJ will those GPAs not appear on their transcripts for college. Only at TJ will their students be eliminated from consideration for scholarships because they will have NO GPAs on any transcript since all scholarships require a minimum GPA.

Good news for FCPS, this will dramatically cut down the number of students who want to apply to TJ. Why go there when their kid can go to a base school and graduate with much higher GPA and be eligible for more scholarships? Wanna bet that the number of applicants is soon cut in half, if not more? Is that their real reason for doing this? Make things easier for their admission staff? Or is it because they hate Asians and they know that this will screw poor Asian parents who were hoping for scholarships so their kid could go to a good college?

All of fairfax cries for you and your kind . . .

FCPS discriminates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Why go there?

Good question.

And yes, they hate Asians. This is all a big discriminatory plot to ruin the Asian kids and their poor Asian parents.

What does this all matter? The schools these kids apply to know darn well how to filter out the quality of these students. They have been analyzing TJ for years. It makes sense for them - TJ is a good customer base for what the schools are selling.

The colleges will merely look at the number of A's and A minuses or whatever, and make their decisions on this data. This issue isn't worth the angst.

I also find it hard to believe that a good school is going to deny a TJ kid a scholarship (or an Oakton kid or a South Lakes kid, for that matter) that 10 other schools want badly for lack of a formalized GPA. It is not like they don't know just how that student stacks up in this high school. This would be a legitimate concern perhaps in a rural high school with limited college matriculation data, but really, the admissions counselors at most colleges know more about TJ (and other high schools in Fairfax County) than anyone needs to know. If the colleges are not data mining in wealthy Fairfax, they are not doing their job.

I also find it disturbing that people (pushy parents) complain about a problem that derives essentially from an embarrassment of riches in terms of talent. The comments appear to lack social context. I was a TJ parent, and fully support what TJ does in terms of challenging these kids, but that doesn't mean that kids or their parents who go there should have an inflated sense of self-importance. TJ is what it is - a good place for students where the "fit" is right. The top kids at other FCPS high schools fit right into the mean at TJ - and may even have an admissions advantage depending on what it is they want to do. Egos ought to be kept in check. This isn't an issue worth complaining about.

By the way, although no institution is perfect, the current TJ principal and many teachers, including some mentioned in the article, are simply stunning in terms of their effectiveness. Take shots at FCPS where they are truly warranted - TJ is hardly any sort of urgent target. unless one wants to talk about a crummy physical plant, which no one argues about.

>>>And yes, they hate Asians<<<

That's what we know. Now Asian kids will not go to TJ. Better to go base school for higher grades and more chance of scholarship money. That's what they want, no more Asians at TJ.

Did you take time to research this topic or, I don't know, call the fucking school and ask them how they're going to compensate for poor little Wang's GPA when applying to colleges?

Or did you just hear a bit of news and use it to justify your pre-existing opinion of FCPS? It seems to me that a parent who's really concerned about these things would ask a school official instead of flapping their iGums about it on the internet.

Lastly, if your precious snowflake is really that smart, he's not going to be hindered by a silly little thing like a GPA.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

How come Blacks/Hispanics seem to be granted admission at a lower rate than Asians??
Just wondering?

Teddy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How come Blacks/Hispanics seem to be granted
> admission at a lower rate than Asians??
> Just wondering?


They hate Blacks/Hispanics. This is all a big discriminatory plot to ruin the Black/Hispanic kids and their poor Black/Hispanic parents.

Teddy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How come Blacks/Hispanics seem to be granted
> admission at a lower rate than Asians??
> Just wondering?

I know this is going to sound racist, but maybe, just maybe, it's because they aren't doing as well as the asians?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

More Complete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teddy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How come Blacks/Hispanics seem to be granted
> > admission at a lower rate than Asians??
> > Just wondering?
>
>
> They hate Blacks/Hispanics. This is all a big
> discriminatory plot to ruin the Black/Hispanic
> kids and their poor Black/Hispanic parents.

That not new to me

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teddy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How come Blacks/Hispanics seem to be granted
> > admission at a lower rate than Asians??
> > Just wondering?
>
> I know this is going to sound racist, but maybe,
> just maybe, it's because they aren't doing as well
> as the asians?


That's completely racist. Everyone knows that all races finish first in everything and that if you insinuate that someone is doing "better" then you're discriminating against the rest of the groups.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

TEH SKOOL BORED MUST GOE!!111!!!!!!!11! JACK DALE = FAGOT!!11!!!!!!!

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teddy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How come Blacks/Hispanics seem to be granted
> > admission at a lower rate than Asians??
> > Just wondering?
>
> I know this is going to sound racist, but maybe,
> just maybe, it's because they aren't doing as well
> as the asians?



RACIST


MOVE BACK TO MANASSES!!!!11!!!!!!

Blessed are the murderous.

I know the football staff dislikes Asians and has made racist remarks towards their kids and it appears to be an accepted practice.

streetwise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know the football staff dislikes Asians....


Maybe because Asians can't play football very well?

Blessed are the murderous.

That very well could be but is that any reason to make racial remarks? Don't think the school would look very good if that got out.

I hear that if TJ does this they will be sued because it's not legal to discriminate against students at one high school and not treat them like all the other high school students. Their grades have to be treated the same as other schools weighted the same and get a GPA.

Anyone heard this?

Is it true??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hear that if TJ does this they will be sued
> because it's not legal to discriminate against
> students at one high school and not treat them
> like all the other high school students. Their
> grades have to be treated the same as other
> schools weighted the same and get a GPA.
>
> Anyone heard this?


If this were true then parents would have been suing for years, saying how their kids are getting a massivley better education then all the other high school studetns

TJ=OVER RATED.Good I am glad, fuck TJ students, and their better than everyone else attitude. All of those fucks have good grades anyway, so what is a hindrance of GPA on an application?Overall grades+SAT/ACT scores+ Ping Pong club should be plenty enough to get you into whatever in state school you desire. In the words of the Governor Arnold, "STOP WHINNING!"

Why would you NOT want asians in your school? They're the best ones for your children to cheat off of.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

TefD187 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ=OVER RATED.Good I am glad, fuck TJ students,
> and their better than everyone else attitude. All
> of those fucks have good grades anyway, so what is
> a hindrance of GPA on an application?Overall
> grades+SAT/ACT scores+ Ping Pong club should be
> plenty enough to get you into whatever in state
> school you desire. In the words of the Governor
> Arnold, "STOP WHINNING!"

getting your kid into TJ which spends more money per student than if the kid was at a base school [except IB] is like getting free private school plus the benefit of UVA and william and Mary. the dumbass principal and school board etc should keep the GPA. TJ - which is a governor's school - can't be compared to other FCPS schools. Colleges look at it like a single entity private school.

I guess some VIP people didn't get their babies into UVA because of a lower GPA and had to pay more for college.

FCPS discriminates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS, along with the Principal of TJ, has decided
> to screw every kid in that school by eliminating
> GPAs for ALL students. Unlike the rest of the
> county high schools, no TJ course will receive ANY
> weighting. In addition, TJ kids will have NO GPAs
> on their transcripts when they apply to college.
>
> http://publications.tjhsst.edu/tjtoday/2000/articl
> e.phtml?ed=September%202009&i=1906
>
> Only at TJ will a PE class count the same as AP
> calculus and Quantum physics. Only at TJ will
> students have a lower GPA than anywhere other
> student in the county. Only at TJ will those GPAs
> not appear on their transcripts for college. Only
> at TJ will their students be eliminated from
> consideration for scholarships because they will
> have NO GPAs on any transcript since all
> scholarships require a minimum GPA.
>
> Good news for FCPS, this will dramatically cut
> down the number of students who want to apply to
> TJ. Why go there when their kid can go to a base
> school and graduate with much higher GPA and be
> eligible for more scholarships? Wanna bet that
> the number of applicants is soon cut in half, if
> not more? Is that their real reason for doing
> this? Make things easier for their admission
> staff? Or is it because they hate Asians and they
> know that this will screw poor Asian parents who
> were hoping for scholarships so their kid could go
> to a good college?

Did you even read your link? Numerous aspects were discussed; weighing of summer classes, weighing all classes at TJ since all are honors and above; ensuring that kids take classes that interest them; colleges truly know about TJ (indeed the whole nation does, since two years in a row it was number one in the nation); I can't believe you feel that colleges will view the A in PE as the same as an A in calculus..how silly. And by the way, for scholarships colleges put the grades into their own GPA system, so no fears there.

The transcript will show the courses and the grades. The kids (as stated in the article) will calculate their GPA's anyway, and as I said, colleges configure the GPA based on their system to make it easier to consider students from all schools/districts with different grading, weighting and scales (which made the whole Fairgrade thing silly to begin with).

Yeah, you betcha, schools refigure every one of the thousands of GPAs that they get, all in 2 or 3 month time period. If you believe that, I've got some lovely ocean front property in Indiana that I would love to show you. You can have it for a song. lol

Obviously you've never had a kid apply to a top school. Are you aware that Harvard gets 20,000 applications a year? If you think they don't make a first cut based on GPA and SAT, you've never applied to ANY college.

Get a clue. Or a least look at the research, even FCPS research said you're wrong.

Right.................. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, you betcha, schools refigure every one of
> the thousands of GPAs that they get, all in 2 or 3
> month time period. If you believe that, I've got
> some lovely ocean front property in Indiana that I
> would love to show you. You can have it for a
> song. lol
>
> Obviously you've never had a kid apply to a top
> school. Are you aware that Harvard gets 20,000
> applications a year? If you think they don't make
> a first cut based on GPA and SAT, you've never
> applied to ANY college.
>
> Get a clue. Or a least look at the research, even
> FCPS research said you're wrong.

I am not wrong. Even at Harvard looking at a transcript you can easily see a bunch of A's listed and determine if it is a 4.0.

You must not realize that other schools don't list GPA. Some use only percentages, not even letter grades, yet Harvard and other selective schools do figure it out.

One person isn't looking at those 20,000 Harvard apps; there are admission reps who work with paticular regions/districts/schools and understand the students at particular schools, so truly no need for TJ to freak out over this issue.

And yes, I have applied to college, and have had a child recently apply to selective schools...and scholarships were offered despite the fact that this was with the old scale so the GPA was lower than it would now be.

No need to buy your Indiana beach front property, since I do have a clue

About half the colleges recompute applicants' GPAs, and half don't. That's what FCPS staff discovered in its January 2009 report, after surveying about 100 colleges that are popular with FCPS students, and receiving responses from over 60. TJ's own guidance office came to about the same conclusion, after surveying 13 to 15 colleges that are popular with TJ students - according to TJ's own guidance director.

Even colleges that do recompute GPAs don't adjust for everything. Plenty of colleges just drop PE, music, and other non-academic courses. If that's all a college does, then the TJ student without a GPA on his transcript could end up with an unweighted GPA for purposes of the college's internal database, which in turn is typically used to prioritize applicants.

Attending TJ does not guarantee a student admission to the top colleges. If it did, the college admissions data on FCPS Blackboard wouldn't show so many TJ students being rejected by colleges, notwithstanding sky-high SAT scores. That same data shows that weighted GPAs are much better predictors than SAT scores of which students will be admitted. For example, U VA is known for admitting FCPS students (including TJ students) based heavily on their GPAs.

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About half the colleges recompute applicants'
> GPAs, and half don't. That's what FCPS staff
> discovered in its January 2009 report, after
> surveying about 100 colleges that are popular with
> FCPS students, and receiving responses from over
> 60. TJ's own guidance office came to about the
> same conclusion, after surveying 13 to 15 colleges
> that are popular with TJ students - according to
> TJ's own guidance director.
>
> Even colleges that do recompute GPAs don't adjust
> for everything. Plenty of colleges just drop PE,
> music, and other non-academic courses. If that's
> all a college does, then the TJ student without a
> GPA on his transcript could end up with an
> unweighted GPA for purposes of the college's
> internal database, which in turn is typically used
> to prioritize applicants.
>
> Attending TJ does not guarantee a student
> admission to the top colleges. If it did, the
> college admissions data on FCPS Blackboard
> wouldn't show so many TJ students being rejected
> by colleges, notwithstanding sky-high SAT scores.
> That same data shows that weighted GPAs are much
> better predictors than SAT scores of which
> students will be admitted. For example, U VA is
> known for admitting FCPS students (including TJ
> students) based heavily on their GPAs.

Right, attending TJ doesn't guarantee admission. The research is interesting,but doesn't mean without a GPA listed there will be harm done to TJ students.

There are many private prep schools that don't have weighted GPAs because they don't offer AP courses, having done away with them in recent years, instead offering their own eclectic "college prep" courses. Since all of their courses, similar to TJs, are advanced weighting them seemed moot.

College admissions is almost luck of the draw for the top students. I know students who one would believe would be perfect at the most selective schools (TJ students with stellar academics and who were also gifted athletes and musicians, involved in many extra-currics, national merit etc) who didn't get in to their top picks. Having a GPA listed didn't assist in anyway in those cases, since they were all essentially the same. That is why, for a school like TJ, I don't think it matters whether or not there is an official GPA listed.

Those schools surveyed by FCPS and TJ know TJ students. They know the academics with or without a GPA. The kids who didn't get into the schools they hoped to, ended up in stellar schools nonetheless (just not their top picks) and ended up for the most part getting full-rides or close to it, so maybe they even benefitted from how competitive admissions are these days.

Info,

Public magnets aren't in the same position as private schools, due to staffing differences. Prep school counselors have the time to call individual colleges to provide supplemental information about a particular student, including additional information on the nature of the courses taken by that student. Public school counselors don't have enough time to do this.

Reportedly one of the top math/science public magnet schools tried eliminating GPAs a few years ago, then reversed course after discovering that its students were being hurt by that decision. If public magnets could eliminate weighted GPAs on transcripts without hurting their students, I suspect more would have done this. That certainly was the impression given by the TJ assistant principal at the PTSA meeting, who claimed that when magnets had considered eliminating GPAs, they'd done it. She was unable to mention more than 3 that had eliminated GPAs, though. Does that mean that the dozens of other public magnets never even considered this idea, because they knew it would hurt their students?

Differential weighting helps educate colleges and summer employers about the difficulty of courses within a school and within a school district. Some TJ math/science electives are tougher than most AP courses. Some TJ electives are about as hard as TJ required courses with honors weighting. At the other extreme, required PE courses presumably are no more difficult at TJ than they are at base high schools. Certain ideas being proposed, which would weight TJ's PE classes as much as its post-AP courses, seem to fly in the face of reality.

It would be arrogant for TJ to assume that every college admissions office will automatically give TJ applicants extra time, which is basically what the "no GPA" proposal assumes. It's one thing for a college admissions officer to say "of course, I know TJ is great." It's another thing for a college admissions officer to spend extra time evaluating every TJ application, because the school refused to provide weighted GPAs on the transcript.

Is FCPS going to give TJ the money to hire extra guidance counselors, to make sure each TJ student gets the same extra consideration as prep school students? Of course not. The better question is why FCPS should put itself in a position where it would need to spend extra money on counselors to mitigate a self-inflicted decision about transcripts.

Damn Asians - everyone hates them. Granted not as much as Mexicans or negroid persons but they are really bad. This generation in the US has gone out of its way to make life a hell for the mongoloid race. No jobs for you, no school for you, you are not able to vote and (this takes the cake) no restaurants anywhere in the area.

Get the message and leave the US - we obviously hate you all. Try Germany or France or something. Take a hint!

OR

You could be a racist jerk-off that thinks higher education should advantage groups based on race - just saying...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2009 11:36AM by dono.

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The better question is
> why FCPS should put itself in a position where it
> would need to spend extra money on counselors to
> mitigate a self-inflicted decision about
> transcripts.

So, what do you believe is the answer? Why did they do this?

Every FCPS employee involved in this decision no doubt has multiple motives and considerations.

Why do you think that FCPS staffers are doing this?

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every FCPS employee involved in this decision no
> doubt has multiple motives and considerations.
>
> Why do you think that FCPS staffers are doing
> this?


I believed what they said, that GPA at TJ was essentially meaningless and they wanted to encourage students to take courses that they might not otherwise take.

You state they have multiple motives and considerations,can you please share a few,rather than throwing the question back at me?

I just remembered that last year TJ implemented that rule that students had to have a 3.0 or above to remain at TJ or they would be shipped back to their base school. I guess without a GPA they can no longer kick the kids out.

Almost no students at TJ have been asked to leave because their GPA is less than 3.0. For the few students with GPAs below 3.0, TJ can ask them to leave whether or not there is a weighted GPA on the transcript.

Contrary to the statement by FCPS science curriculum coordinator Myra Thayer, GPAs at TJ are not meaningless because most TJ students would have weighted GPAs of 3.8 or higher under the new system. Colleges cared a lot about the difference between a 3.6 and a 4.1 weighted GPA under the old weighting system, and I think they will care a lot about the difference between a 3.8 and a 4.3 under the new weighting system. In Montgomery County, magnet students' weighted GPAs are largely in the 4.5 to 5.0 range, and their weighted GPAs affect their opportunities.

If the goal is to encourage students to take math, science and tech courses they might not otherwise take, FCPS can weight all the advanced math/science/tech electives, just like Montgomery County weights all of its magnet's STEM courses. Because the TJ Diploma has so many required courses, TJ students usually can't take more than about a credit of these STEM electives without attending summer school. So, this shouldn't bother FCPS staff whose apparent goal is to minimize the number of weighted classes that TJ students can take.

If weighting TJ's math, science and tech electives nonetheless causes some FCPS staff to worry about TJ kids having "too many" weighted courses, then FCPS could decide not to weight any of TJ's social studies electives as a trade of sorts. That way, TJ students would have only 2.5 extra quality points from their four social studies required classes, rather than the 3.5 quality points base school students can obtain by taking Honors World History 1, AP World Civilization, AP US History, and AP Government. TJ's challenging STEM electives would be weighted. And TJ students would still take one credit of unweighted social studies electives, because they have no choice given the TJ Diploma requirements.

info Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> APorIBMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Every FCPS employee involved in this decision
> no
> > doubt has multiple motives and considerations.
>
> >
> > Why do you think that FCPS staffers are doing
> > this?
>
>
> I believed what they said, that GPA at TJ was
> essentially meaningless and they wanted to
> encourage students to take courses that they might
> not otherwise take.
>


Why do they care what courses TJ kids take? Why not let them take whatever they want to take. Why question their motives? Why do they care why students take stuff? So what if the students don't like some of the junk that TJ is trying to make them take instead of taking the math and science courses that the little nerds seem to enjoy?

The problem is not the weighting of science courses. The problem is getting students to take the silly little humanities courses that the TJ administration loves. Dr. Glazer and other teachers say that they want humanities rated higher, not just all the science and math classes. They want to force science and tech kids to take more 'fun' history and English classes that they don't want to take. Humanities teachers should push for their own special TJ, not this one that is supposed to be about science and math. That way they'd have lots of students who cared more about their courses and TJ wouldn't have to destroy kids by giving them the lowest grades in the county to make the teachers happy.

Virginia only requires high school students to take 3 credits of social studies to receive a "standard diploma." Other math/science magnet schools start with the standard diploma requirements, then add math/science courses. As far as colleges are concerned, social studies doesn't seem to be a high priority. Three is what colleges typically recommend, and some top tech colleges only require applicants to have taken two social studies classes.

FCPS has different priorities. About a decade ago, the FCPS School Board voted to require all FCPS high school students to take 4 credits of social studies, even if they only wanted a standard diploma. The TJ principal at that time, Geoff Jones, asked FCPS to waive the extra social studies credit for TJ students. There was analogous precedent in Virginia's advanced diploma rules, which modify the science requirements for IB Diploma candidates.

Elizabeth Lodal, the next TJ principal and a former history teacher, withdrew Geoff Jones' request. She rejected proposals to allow TJ students to take an AP social studies course to satisfy the fourth required credit. She created more integrated English/social studies courses, which effectively capped social studies class sizes to match slightly lower required class sizes for English. During her reign, TJ social studies faculty also began offering more non-AP electives, like "Street Law."

In sum, TJ students must take one credit of non-AP social studies electives. TJ sophomores must take World History 2, while base high school sophomores can take AP World Civilization. TJ has plenty of social studies electives, a few of which have smaller classes than, say, TJ's math and computer science classes. Sort of odd, for a math/science magnet.

I think of it as Lodal's legacy at TJ.


TJ control freaks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why do they care what courses TJ kids take? Why
> not let them take whatever they want to take. Why
> question their motives? Why do they care why
> students take stuff? So what if the students
> don't like some of the junk that TJ is trying to
> make them take instead of taking the math and
> science courses that the little nerds seem to
> enjoy?

AP or IB Mom - you know darn well that the Ivy League knows exactly how to differentiate TJ kids. It collectively gets at least 200 or more applications to its schools and they all know TJ kids are better prepared than most, even at the Ivy League level. It pays for them to know that each TJ class, and they do. And non-Ivies with the same kind of academic reputations - Carnegie Mellon and Duke - to name a few - have little trouble knowing what TJ kids are about - heck, they matriculate (and not just accept) 10-25 TJ'ers a year, just as with many of the Ivies.

The lack of weighting may in theory "hurt" applicants to other schools, but I think that only in theory. Those other schools have long wanted TJ to look beyond the Big 6" schools that most TJ'ers apply to, and I find it difficult to believe that they would not closely examine a TJ applicant that was the right fit for their applicant pool - a description that fits 85 percent or so of TJ students. I find it hard to believe, for example, that the Wake Forests or Vanderbilts of the world , which get only 2-4 TJers a year, wouldn't look very closely at most any TJ applicant, irrespective of weighting.

Again, I don't get it....this is not worth getting excited about. Do well at TJ, and good things come.

c'mon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The lack of weighting may in theory "hurt"
> applicants to other schools, but I think that
> only in theory.

A very large number of TJ kids apply to and go to VA Tech every year. (I suspect, with no direct knowledge, that, of all colleges/universities, Tech actually matriculates the largest TJ contingent every year.) A reasonable percentage of the TJ kids would presumably be University Honors material, but without both reporting and weighting there's a not so minor problem -

"Entering freshmen are invited to apply to University Honors if they have a cummulative GPA of 3.70 (as reported on their high school transcript) and a minimum SAT score of 1350 (critical reading and mathematics) or a minimum ACT composite score of 30. Students who do not meet these criteria upon entering Virginia Tech will have an opportunity to apply to University Honors after they have established themselves at the university and met the internal GPA requirement." (http://www.univhonors.vt.edu/html/admissions.html)

So, without reporting, the TJ kids are presumably not eligible, but, even if the reporting requirement were waived, VA Tech doesn't re-weight HS grades for University Honors eligibility.

As FairGrades & FCPS Staff determined during their study of GPA weightings, colleges/universities frequently rely solely on the HS's weightings. Sometimes they re-weight for all purposes, sometimes for specific purposes, sometimes not at all.

TJ parents wish that C'mon's description of the college admissions process was accurate. But TJ students, parents and even some counselors can't seem to remember everything about all the TJ courses, without referring to the course selection guide. Last spring, TJ's course guide included 7 non-AP math electives (mostly post-AP), 5 non-AP computer science electives, 30 non-AP science electives and dozens of other electives in the humanities, including 13 non-AP social studies electives. Somehow I doubt that many college admissions officers will remember that artificial intelligence is a post-AP class, while prototype development has no prerequisites. Or that they will look these courses up in a TJ course selection guide while reading a TJ transcript.

The current Washingtonian web site summarizes the percentage of TJ and all applicants admitted to highly selective colleges. At a few, like Carnegie Mellon, TJ students are significantly more likely than non-TJ applicants to be admitted. But at most highly selective colleges, this isn't the case. And if one looks at Blackboard data, colleges rely heavily on weighted GPAs in deciding which TJ students to admit.

Westfield Dad, thank you for pointing out that college honors programs and merit scholarships sometimes require fixed minimum GPAs - including but not limited to Virginia Tech. VA Tech was the third most popular college destination for TJ students last year, after U VA and William & Mary. But other TJ students matriculated at various colleges with similar GPA cutoffs for their honors programs and merit scholarships.


c'mon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP or IB Mom - you know darn well that the Ivy
> League knows exactly how to differentiate TJ kids.
> It collectively gets at least 200 or more
> applications to its schools and they all know TJ
> kids are better prepared than most, even at the
> Ivy League level. It pays for them to know that
> each TJ class, and they do. And non-Ivies with
> the same kind of academic reputations - Carnegie
> Mellon and Duke - to name a few - have little
> trouble knowing what TJ kids are about - heck,
> they matriculate (and not just accept) 10-25
> TJ'ers a year, just as with many of the Ivies.

There are some really smart folks here with lots of knowledge. I can't help but think how unfair this is to TJ kids. Why would the administration want to hurt kids like this? I thought teachers and principals liked kids. This is just so unfair.

Aren't the TJ parents angry that their kids will lose out on scholarships and Honors programs? I would be. Is their solution to transfer their kids back the base schools so that they can again be eligible for all the scholarships?

When will this decision take effect? Or has it already? Will it apply to this year's seniors? TJ parents and students should have been told about this BEFORE they let their kids go there. They should have known when they were deciding between TJ and their base school. It's not fair to change the rules AFTER the kids are already there. Oh typical of a public school, change the rules any old time they want to. What the heck kind of message is that to kids?

Some TJ parents have said that if weighted GPAs were not included on TJ transcripts, they might want their children to transfer to the base high schools. I think most are still hoping that this idea will never be implemented.

At the PTSA meeting, Assistant Superintendent Cecy Krill announced that this year's seniors would have weighted GPAs on their TJ transcripts, so that any policy changes (including but not limited to the idea of eliminating weighted GPAs from the TJ transcript) would only affect students in TJ '11 and subsequent classes.

The "bait and switch" argument was raised by a parent at the PTSA meeting.

Right.................. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, you betcha, schools refigure every one of
> the thousands of GPAs that they get, all in 2 or 3
> month time period. If you believe that, I've got
> some lovely ocean front property in Indiana that I
> would love to show you. You can have it for a
> song.

Gee, if only skools had kumputerz or sumthin.

Seriously, your point is non-existent. Universities have regional reps around the country. Part of a regional rep's function is to track and build metrics for normalizing the local schools' grading. Correcting for local trends/curving, counting academics higher than PE or electives, etc. is all part of this. Probably takes less time to run 20,000 applications than it took me to write this -- certainly less time than it takes to enter the subset of applications that are submitted on paper (and with probably less error, but that's another issue).

Yes, if you're from Podunk High in some backwater, your rep might miss the fact that your school happens to have a high percentage of PhD teachers, high-end kids, and curved grading, and thus be under-corrected. But this is hardly likely to happen with a high-profile, high-end school like TJ, now is it?

SO UNFAIR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not fair
> to change the rules AFTER the kids are already
> there. Oh typical of a public school, change the
> rules any old time they want to. What the heck
> kind of message is that to kids?

Even if this change actually meant something, it's neither the first nor the last time that something "unfair" might happen to your wee precious. As Heinlein wrote, "Fair? Who ever said life was gonna be fair?" (Perhaps not an exact quote, but pretty close.)

Seriously, the TJ kids I know would laugh and suck it up. I suspect your kids will too; you're probably far more worried about it than they are.

AP or IB - you aver my statements are inaccurate, but how?

College admissions directors at competitive colleges have to know TJ cold or they are not doing their jobs.

And my own kid at TJ got in everywhere applied, including all the Ivies. I am from the school where you do the hard work first and let the results flow from that hard work, rather than wonking about the perceived disadvantages of the system. And kids ought to endure their own hard knocks, whatever they may be, without parents helicoptering around. Perhaps just a value difference.

I see refusing to report GPAs as another sorry example of the wussification of TJ. When I went there, they rufused to report your rank in the class. When will Glazer ask for all courses at TJ to be graded pass/fail?

A little competition is good sometimes. Hell, it's one of the reasons this country is so great.

Eastsider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see refusing to report GPAs as another sorry
> example of the wussification of TJ. When I went
> there, they rufused to report your rank in the
> class. When will Glazer ask for all courses at TJ
> to be graded pass/fail?
>
> A little competition is good sometimes. Hell,
> it's one of the reasons this country is so great.

Yeah, those TJ kids are WAY too dumb to figure out their GPAs on their own.

Thanks for playing. Try again?

What a shame. Now you will have to attend UVa rather than Harvard or Yale.




FCPS discriminates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS, along with the Principal of TJ, has decided
> to screw every kid in that school by eliminating
> GPAs for ALL students. Unlike the rest of the
> county high schools, no TJ course will receive ANY
> weighting. In addition, TJ kids will have NO GPAs
> on their transcripts when they apply to college.
>
> http://publications.tjhsst.edu/tjtoday/2000/articl
> e.phtml?ed=September%202009&i=1906
>
> Only at TJ will a PE class count the same as AP
> calculus and Quantum physics. Only at TJ will
> students have a lower GPA than anywhere other
> student in the county. Only at TJ will those GPAs
> not appear on their transcripts for college. Only
> at TJ will their students be eliminated from
> consideration for scholarships because they will
> have NO GPAs on any transcript since all
> scholarships require a minimum GPA.
>
> Good news for FCPS, this will dramatically cut
> down the number of students who want to apply to
> TJ. Why go there when their kid can go to a base
> school and graduate with much higher GPA and be
> eligible for more scholarships? Wanna bet that
> the number of applicants is soon cut in half, if
> not more? Is that their real reason for doing
> this? Make things easier for their admission
> staff? Or is it because they hate Asians and they
> know that this will screw poor Asian parents who
> were hoping for scholarships so their kid could go
> to a good college?

Another Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eastsider Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I see refusing to report GPAs as another sorry
> > example of the wussification of TJ. When I
> went
> > there, they rufused to report your rank in the
> > class. When will Glazer ask for all courses at
> TJ
> > to be graded pass/fail?
> >
> > A little competition is good sometimes. Hell,
> > it's one of the reasons this country is so
> great.
>
> Yeah, those TJ kids are WAY too dumb to figure out
> their GPAs on their own.
>
> Thanks for playing. Try again?

Of course you can calculate your GPA...so why not just report it on the transcripts, too? What is the point of not doing so? The only thing I can think of is to make students care less about it and not be so competitive. My point is that grades are the principal metric of achievement in high school; you WANT kids to care about them.

I bet TJ tries to make the freshman year pass/fail (a la MIT) soon. Watch.

Eastsider Wrote:
> Of course you can calculate your GPA...so why not
> just report it on the transcripts, too? What is
> the point of not doing so? The only thing I can
> think of is to make students care less about it
> and not be so competitive. My point is that
> grades are the principal metric of achievement in
> high school; you WANT kids to care about them.

> I bet TJ tries to make the freshman year pass/fail
> (a la MIT) soon. Watch.

What do transcripts have to do with the kids competing with each other? Is there some public high school transcript website I haven't heard about?

The point of not reporting GPAs is unclear; if I had to guess, I'd suspect it's either because FCPS is tired of having to explain the many flavors of GPA to parents and/or is tired of having parents complain about it not matching their own calculations (OK, those are sort of the same, but different manifestations). It might be intended to somehow reduce stress, though I fail to see how it would achieve that. In any case, as already explained, it makes no difference to college applications, and no difference to the students' ability to compete with each other.

How this translates to making classes pass/fail is a leap of logic I can't begin to fathom. Can you explain?

So far, your GPA in this thread is 0.0.

You don't think kids at TJ compare GPAs? What year did you graduate? After I left, some kids started a college stats Web site, where among other things, they self-reported GPAs and what colleges accepted them.

You are clueless.

Eastsider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't think kids at TJ compare GPAs? What
> year did you graduate? After I left, some kids
> started a college stats Web site, where among
> other things, they self-reported GPAs and what
> colleges accepted them.

One more time: how does that relate to the transcript? Unless the transcripts are being posted BY FCPS, there's no relevance.

> You are clueless.

Please see me after class.

Not putting it on the transcript DEEMPHASIZES its importance. How can you argue otherwise?

I'm done with you in this thread, anonytroll. Please, by all means, have the last word...

Eastsider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not putting it on the transcript DEEMPHASIZES its
> importance. How can you argue otherwise?

Did I argue that? I don't believe so.

> I'm done with you in this thread, anonytroll.
> Please, by all means, have the last word...

Hmm, I note for the record that you appear to be equally anonymous.

In any case, you still haven't answered how removing GPA from the transcript maps to making classes pass/fail. Or are you unable to remember what caused that leap of logic?

The administration is not doing this to hurt the students. They are simply trying to cut down on the fuss associated with the GPA, which is expected to describe a college applicant in one number. The colleges still know how to determine who the best students are, and scholarships will still be awarded based on the secondary school report. Dr. Glazier, the principal, has explained that this change will allow students to take classes they are interested in while not worrying about the hit their GPA will take for unweighted classes. Basically, he's tired of overstressed kids piling on AP classes that they don't even care about just to obtain the grade boost. I think that this is a bold but well thought out move by the principal that will provide a better learning environment at the school.

It would be nice if this were true. But it isn't. TJ administrators are beginning to acknowledge that eliminating the weighted GPA from TJ student transcripts will hurt TJ kids applying to some colleges and for some scholarships, after getting feedback from colleges and doing more thorough research on what other magnet high schools have done.

Admittedly, the current FCPS weighting will induce some TJ students to substitute weighted for unweighted courses. Unweighted science electives may have fewer students, as GPA-conscious TJ students opt for AP courses or honors-weighted courses over unweighted classes like DNA Science, organic chemistry or computational physics, among others.

There's a much better way to address this problem. Just weight TJ's math/science electives based on their relative difficulty. Courses that are college-level should be weighted as much as AP classes. And TJ science/tech courses that are not as rigorous or challenging as AP courses shouldn't get as much weight as the AP or other college-level courses. If they are taught at an honors level, they deserve honors weighting. But giving the same implicit weight to all TJ classes makes no sense, whether that implicit weight is zero (the no GPA proposal) or that implicit weight is 0.5 (one proposal floated at a TJ PTSA meeting).


TJkid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The colleges still know how to determine
> who the best students are, and scholarships will
> still be awarded based on the secondary school
> report. Dr. Glazier, the principal, has explained
> that this change will allow students to take
> classes they are interested in while not worrying
> about the hit their GPA will take for unweighted
> classes. Basically, he's tired of overstressed
> kids piling on AP classes that they don't even
> care about just to obtain the grade boost. I think
> that this is a bold but well thought out move by
> the principal that will provide a better learning
> environment at the school.

Why not remove all weighting and make sure to label the GPA on the transcript as "unweighted"? I always thought it was ridiculous to report a GPA higher than 4.0 out of 4.0.

Students who think they can take advantage of such a change by enrolling in easier classes will be in for a surprise when they apply to colleges.

Have weighted grades, as to the students in all other counties and states. Why shouldn't students at TJ be treated the same as every other student, and have weighted grades. I don't think that students should be penalized just because they are geeks at TJ.

I don't want my son to apply to TJ if they are going through with this crazy idea of no GPA at TJ. When will they decide? I won't let my kid go there if they do this so I don't want to waste money on the application. Anyone know when they will decide what they're doing?

I think the no GPA thing at TJ is silly, but I think choosing not to attend TJ because the school won't report GPAs is sillier.

GPA or no GPA, TJ is an incredibly special place.

My son attended TJ and while he did very well academically he was never happy there. He looks back and wished he attended his base school. TJ is not for everyone and you give up a whole lot socially. I really don't think the TJ reputation helped him in college admissions.

SCREW TJ.

momtj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My son attended TJ and while he did very well
> academically he was never happy there. He looks
> back and wished he attended his base school. TJ is
> not for everyone and you give up a whole lot
> socially. I really don't think the TJ reputation
> helped him in college admissions.


Unless you are in the top 20 graduating at TJ, your child is probably better off at the base high school.

TJreputation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> momtj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My son attended TJ and while he did very well
> > academically he was never happy there. He looks
> > back and wished he attended his base school. TJ
> is
> > not for everyone and you give up a whole lot
> > socially. I really don't think the TJ
> reputation
> > helped him in college admissions.
>
>
> Unless you are in the top 20 graduating at TJ,
> your child is probably better off at the base high
> school.



As a TJ alumn, I have to say that this is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read.

Students at TJ already have more $ allocated per pupil than other FCPS students who are non-disabled or economically disadvantaged. How much more for a TJ student than the regular education student at Madison, Mclean, or Chantilly? The student who takes AP's , does clubs and sports. How many TJ students actually are enrolled in the advanced classes NOT found at any other FCPS high school?

8th period, the bus, underpopulated sports teams [football], lower staffing ratios, school board time. Plus the state contributes to TJ.

This isn't accurate. FCPS provides significant subsidies to Academies at six FCPS high schools and for IB program costs at eight FCPS high schools. Plus, FCPS provides more funding at "special needs" high schools, which I believe include Stuart, Mt. Vernon, Falls Church, Annandale, West Potomac, Edison, South Lakes, and Marshall. The schools that get fewer resources per student from FCPS generally have AP classes, don't have Academies, and aren't on the special needs list.

TJ already gets more $ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Students at TJ already have more $ allocated per
> pupil than other FCPS students who are
> non-disabled or economically disadvantaged. How
> much more for a TJ student than the regular
> education student at Madison, Mclean, or
> Chantilly? The student who takes AP's , does clubs
> and sports. How many TJ students actually are
> enrolled in the advanced classes NOT found at any
> other FCPS high school?
>
> 8th period, the bus, underpopulated sports teams ,
> lower staffing ratios, school board time. Plus
> the state contributes to TJ.

Students from all FCPS schools attend the academy programs.

IB is no more subsidized than AP is subsidized. FCPS pays for both programs. IB costs more because it is a program no just a test at the end of a one-year class.

TJ does receive more than other schools for staffing and texts/supplies.

Whoever wrote this is being utterly bitter, biased, and does not have their facts straight. http://www.tjhsst.edu/curriculum/dss/docs/fcpsprofile_2010.pdf. Every FCPS public school has the same grading/weighting system.This is not accurate; Thomas Jefferson does not hate Asians (that was honestly rude and unnecessary), and for all we know you yourself could be a Thomas Jefferson applicant who did not make it taking out their resentment. Colleges are actually impressed and respect Thomas Jefferson. A professional would not make racist and stereotypical remarks about the student body at Jefferson. Even IF they ever decided to do something like this, the people TJ was meant for would still apply; TJ isn't just for the GPA or the "I went to TJ".. it is intended to be a challenging place for those interested in science, technology, and math.
P.S. FCPS students to 'FCPS discriminates', go get your facts straight.

ok so i go to tj. I'm white. This is off-topic, but I have something to say about all the racist comments.

More asains apply to Tj then other racial groups. Also based on statistics asians get better test scores. I'm not saying that all asians are smart, but there is more of a cultural push for them to try harder to get better scores.

Based on statistics Hispanics and Blacks get worse test scores. This is not because they are stupid. In my opinion every race is as smart as another, but social pressures and what is expected change how these students preform.

In the book Freakanomics, they did an experiment looking at the test scores of black and white students. In kindergarten the scores were even, but once second grade came around blacks were not preforming as well. This supports the idea of social pressure causing the grade difference.

Also not that many blacks and hispanics apply. Tj's job is to pick the brightest students with a range of interests. It's harder for them to do that when they don't have as much to pick from.

~I feel bad for the asain that was probably much smarter than i am that didn't get in because they already had too many asians in the school.

I also apologize to those who TJ kids act condescending to... yah some of us do it. I don't think it's the right thing to do (I try not to do it) These kids would think they're better than other people whether they go to tj or not. if they can't gloat because they go to tj it would be them gloating about the fact that they think they're smarter than someone else.

Anyone who thinks that EVERY admissions director in the United States doesn't know exactly how competitive and excellent TJ is as one of the top five public high schools in the US, if not the world, is a moron. They know exactly how much weight to give the grades they see; they don't need a number to make that decision for them.

Not to mention the incredible amount of donations that the school gets.
TJ is more funded than other schools. TJ also staffs more school psychologists than other, via floaters or full-timers, due to the overwhelming need. TJ kids can get bussed in to school from anywhere in the County.
That is an overwhelming amount of funding for one school.


Real Facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Students from all FCPS schools attend the academy
> programs.
>
> IB is no more subsidized than AP is subsidized.
> FCPS pays for both programs. IB costs more
> because it is a program no just a test at the end
> of a one-year class.
>
> TJ does receive more than other schools for
> staffing and texts/supplies.

TJ is more funded than all the other FCPS high schools....more than Langley? Has a newer building, better bus schedules and newer trailers than the other high schools? Please cite your source for that claim.

"Overwhelming need" for school psychologists at TJ? These comments are just spin and designed to paint TJ in an unflattering light. Typical.

cite the source Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ is more funded than all the other FCPS high
> schools....more than Langley? Has a newer
> building, better bus schedules and newer trailers
> than the other high schools? Please cite your
> source for that claim.
>
> "Overwhelming need" for school psychologists at
> TJ? These comments are just spin and designed to
> paint TJ in an unflattering light. Typical.


South Lakes provides a better educational experience.

Guess I'd rather be involved with South Lakes than spoiled Great Falls kids at Langley.

cite the source Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ is more funded than all the other FCPS high
> schools....more than Langley? Has a newer
> building, better bus schedules and newer trailers
> than the other high schools? Please cite your
> source for that claim.

Well, I don't know about funding, bus schedules or trailers, but Langley was built in 1965. Since T.J. didn't exist when I was a student at Langley, I doubt it was built before the mid-1980s. I think that makes it newer than most, if not all, of the other high schools in the county.

Momma Bear Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ also
> staffs more school psychologists than other, via
> floaters or full-timers, due to the overwhelming
> need.

I'm curious about this one too. What is "overwhelming need" supposed to mean?

NegativeDreamStealer,

TJ occupies a building that was built in the mid-1960s. Fairfax Co. sent the regular high school kids from Thomas Jefferson to Annandale starting in the late 1980s.

Ah, got it. Thanks.

Momma Bear Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to mention the incredible amount of donations
> that the school gets.
> TJ is more funded than other schools. TJ also
> staffs more school psychologists than other, via
> floaters or full-timers, due to the overwhelming
> need. TJ kids can get bussed in to school from
> anywhere in the County.
> That is an overwhelming amount of funding for one
> school.
>

It is also an overwhelming amount of achievement for one school. Most would say it evens out.

OH YES! And one more thing!
Attachments:

Asians parents just push their kids to get in. I know some of them who have graduated from TJ and completely left science area. After they become become more knowledgeable they know that science is not for them!

I still don't understand why TJ has created, and is creating, such an amount of tension. I believe that every person in our area should be proud that we have an amazing opportunity available for science, technology, and math. This is a unique school, that has a unique student body... and "Asian" shouldn't be such a problem for people. A lot of Asians who immigrated to America did so because they had limited opportunities for themselves and their children in their home countries. They only want their children to receive the best that they can, and for a lot of students, that is TJ.

I understand that many feel that their educational opportunities are over if they don't make it in to TJ, but all of the high schools in Fairfax County,especially, and Northern Virginia are excellent. FCPS does not neglect other schools because their focus is on TJ. Like I said, I think as a community we should be proud of TJ and the talent that passes through. But not all of the talent in our area DOES pass through. I think it is important for people to realize that, too. Many students in other high schools could excel greatly at TJ. But only so many students can attend.

And to the people who feel that TJ recieves extensive donations and parental support, I'm sorry your school doesn't have strong enough roots to be able to go to the community.

I am a white student at TJ, and I realize the great representation of Asians, but that does not mean that if you were to walk down the hallway it would be a rarity to see diversity in our students. In my opinion, people (as demonstrated by many previous posts) comfort themselves, and find security in confirming their misconceptions through the ranting and biased OPINIONS of others.

TJreputation Wrote:

>
> Unless you are in the top 20 graduating at TJ,
> your child is probably better off at the base high
> school.


I'm a little late getting to this thread, but echoing someone earlier, this had to be one of the more ridiculous things I've read here.

Well, until I read this:

Don't want him to go Wrote:

> I don't want my son to apply to TJ if they are
> going through with this crazy idea of no GPA at TJ.
> When will they decide? I won't let my kid go there
> if they do this so I don't want to waste money on
> the application. Anyone know when they will decide
> what they're doing?

If TJ is the right fit for your kid (which is a decent chance if accepted - but not guaranteed), then you are hosing him by letting this issue cloud your judgment.




Seriously all - there are some schools out there with crazy grade scales, e.g. classes can get up to 6.0's. I mean, a kid with straight B's or worse could have a "4.0" at some schools. You just have to trust colleges and scholarships are aware of this and take it into account. Good news - top colleges definitely do! Took me awhile to realize, but your actual GPA "number" is only important to *you*, and not really anyone else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2010 02:16AM by snowdenscold.

snowdenscold Wrote:

> Took me awhile to realize,
> but your actual GPA "number" is only important to
> *you*, and not really anyone else.


I'm glad that someone here understands. Unlike the rest of these ignorant posters who are being persuaded by the bitter opinions of others. Thank you snowdenscold. Thank you.

thats not true, GPA still shows up. i go to TJ so i would know. Don't be whining just because your child or children didnt get in. If you have so much complaints. Why dont your go to court instead of trying to onvince others about this.

Are you sure you go to TJ? You write like you text? Why?

tjkid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thats not true, GPA still shows up. i go to TJ so
> i would know. Don't be whining just because your
> child or children didnt get in. If you have so
> much complaints. Why dont your go to court instead
> of trying to onvince others about this.

Clearly you were not admitted based on the strength of your English scores.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2010 07:41PM by Teh King.

YALL NEEDSTA STOP COMPLANIN CUZ I DONE WENT TO DEM TJ AND DEM HARVARD AFTA AND DIS SHIT IZ SO HOT TJ IS DA BEST DONT BE HATIN

TJ kids piss me off anyways. "What you do Friday night?" I Ask, "homework" they reply. Want to hang out, I ask. Homework they reply. I just want to make it clear that in the end, are you going to remember that A you got in Calculus. No, so yeah. Yes, strive for good grades but dont get caught up. I wish TJ didnt exist actually. It just breeds competition, something that this area is obviously lacking.....And if you cant detect sarcasm then.......

What this all amounts to is the recognition that TJ doesn't need GPAs, as everyone knows that the calibre of students there is so much higher than average public schools and most private schools as well. So the real issue isn't the GPA while there but getting in to begin with. Think about it, kids that go to St. Stephens/St. Agnes, or The Albin School, or Sidwell Friends aren't necessarily smarter than other kids it's that they come from money and prestige, whereas at TJ, they are just a lot smarter as a whole than any other school!

I know it's a tough pill to swallow but in all honesty let's face it, TJ kids are elite.

"TJ kids are elite." BULL SHIT. TJ is a school that is designed to educate kids with a special interest in math, science and technology. It is not a school that is intended to turn out kids with special interests in Farsi, Polly Sci, Fine Arts or sports. A friend of mine had two sons. One was top of his class, seriously involved in a variety of activities, some at a regional or national level, kicked ass on his SATs and could get into almost any school he wanted. The other went to TJ and barely made it into Tech. The difference is that the underachiever was seriously interested in math, while the other's attentions were devoted elsewhere. And before you start knocking St. Stephens/St. Agnes, or The Albin School, or Sidwell Friends, consider how many of your classmates come from moneyed parents who were willing to spend the $$$ for those TJ prep classes and all of those science, math and tech resume buffers.

The reason that most high schools in Fairfax weight advanced courses is so that you don't have some kid deciding to pass up taking Calculus because he might end up getting a lower GPA than someone that took weightlifting. TJ doesn't have a gut path, so there isn't much incentive to weight grades. I suppose there are colleges that might look at straight GPA in evaluating candidates, but most of the schools my eldest applied to ask you to restate your GPA on a 4 point scale.

Oh and Latisha, I believe you are mistaking TJ with TC.

Bill, don't you think that TJ kids are generally smarter than kids at other schools?

> ...smarter...

His point was they're math/science weenies, not something equally valid like, say, chamber music weenies.

[BTW, I personally think schools like TJ are grossly over-rated - not because their students are fantastic, but because long after the students leave TJ they're not significantly - if at all - better off than their non-TJ peers. That is to say, why bother?]

State School Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > ...smarter...
>
> His point was they're math/science weenies, not
> something equally valid like, say, chamber music
> weenies.
>
>BTW, I personally think schools like TJ are grossly over-rated - not because their >students are fantastic, but because long after the students leave TJ they're not >significantly - if at all - better off than their non-TJ peers. That is to say, why >bother?

I've worked side-by-side with several TJ grad (and some of them subsequent UVA grads). Smart fellas? Surely, all of them are. Are they heads and shoulders above their professional peers and 'knocking the cover off the ball'? Not really.

That's not funny, give us a blake!

TJ is Elite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill, don't you think that TJ kids are generally
> smarter than kids at other schools?

I should just leave it at what Teh King and State School Grad said, but since I didn't graduate from TJ, here it goes....

Smarter than WHICH kids at other schools? The assumption is that if you took TJ kids and put them into any other FCHS they would be in the top of their class. This may be true for a number of them. However there are also a number that wouldn't make the top 10%, top quarter, or depending on the school the top third. TJ has a number of very smart kids. (I've employed a couple of them.) However what really differentiates TJ from other high schools is (i) the absence of dummies and (ii) a curriculum that is oriented towards the kids' interests.

First of all, these one-off anecdotal stories of "well I knew kids A and B who did/didn't go to TJ and did/didn't get into schools X and Y" are not that useful. Of course there will always be outliers. That's why people consider useful statistics like "medians" and "upper and lower quartiles".

Second, the idea that all kids who go to TJ are math and science geeks who aren't well-rounded in any way is not true. Yes, you can find many kids who might fit that description, but you could find just as many who don't. TJ has a fairly strong music and arts program (especially for a 'tech' school) and many students have passions and interests (that continue on into college) outside of math and science.

As a related aside, in the '99-'00 school year, TJ had the first chair Violin (concertmaster), first chair Viola, and first chair Cello in All-STATE orchestra.

You have zeroed in on music because it was used as a single example of what TJ isn't necessarily tops with. Stop. You missed the point.

Few arguments are as insulting as the "mere anecdotal evidence" line, but since we are playing that game, why is the fact that in one particular year TJ had 3 top orchestra musicians any more valid? As the old saying goes, there are three types of lies: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics...or to put it another way an anecdote is nothing more than a valid observation by someone who's opinion you don't value.

Don't turn this into something it isn't. Well rounded kids and kids who excel in non-math-science-technology areas can get into TJ, but that isn't what gets them there (which is a credit to TJ's admissions staff). Likewise there are large numbers of top performing kids in this county who do not go to TJ. Going to TJ does not necessarily mean you are "elite". Which brings me back to the point of the thread. One purpose of a GPA is to allow comparisons between students. When students pursue course paths with differing levels of difficulty a straight GPA comparison is less valid. Where, as at TJ, students generally pursue course paths of about equal difficulty, straight GPA comparisons are more valid. Weighting GPAs is merely a way to deal with the problem of comparing students pursuing course paths with differing levels of difficulty. Since this problem is less acute at TJ, the solution is not needed.

Shut up and stop whining or go back to your base school. Nobody cares.

Lol!

It is unfair to say all kids at TJ pursue the same level of difficulty in their academics. Not only unfair, but complete bullshit.

At TJ, no matter what courses you take, you will be challenged, but some student skirt by on the bare minimum, while other students receive less sleep than their own unweighted GPA. As one of the students who (i) Took summer chem (a hellish course cramming Honors chemistry into 5 weeks) and (ii) Enrolled in AP chem and AP Bio (At TJ website, AP expectations for courses are as follows: AP Bio: 6-8 hours per week studying to perform well, and AP Chem: 3-5 hours per week to perform well), and (iii) Doing 3 sports for TJ after school, I can honestly say that it is frustrating to come to school after getting 3 hours of sleep per night and seeing my friends complaining about sleeping at 12 AM. However, more frustrating is seeing my base school friends complaining about sleep at 11 PM.

Although you make the argument that some children at TJ would not excel at other schools, also think to yourselves that the percentage of kids at TJ that WOULDN'T excel at another school is probably dwarfed by children who WOULD excel at any other school in the county. Also, going to TJ, it is hard to get into elite colleges while competing with some of the "elite" children. Some children are 6 years ahead of base school children in math. The math courses said people take as freshmen are courses some kids will take in college, or even not take at all. So is it fair to compare a child who works 2-3 hours per night to a kid who works 6 hours a night but gets lower grades because of more challenging courses?

You can NEVER get back your youth. My kids are smart but I think they should have fun too.

You will not see this till you are at least 40 but life is made for living and learning. I went to Harvard but I still had fun.

You sound hard up and dull. Don't spoil your youth. I know you cannot think beyond today. We all did it but not the at the pace you are going now.