We had some people from the county in the house on another issue and when they came in they said we were hoarding (tons of books everywhere).
We are not selling books, these are "tools of the trade" for a writer. We ran out of bookshelf space and started using the floor...we are now boxing them.

My questions involve individual personal property rights vs. the rights of the county to come in and dictate what we should / can have in our own home.
Are they going to try to tell me how many books we are allowed to have ?
Do I have to let the inspector in ? Where is he or she allowed to look ?
Can they go into closets etc. without a warrant?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

DO NOT LET THEM IN WITHOUT A WARRANT! LET ME REPEAT MYSELF THEY NEED A WARRANT!

Do not let them in without a warrant.

Good luck with the county. If they think you are hoarding they can send someone to your house to inspect. If you have kids you better make sure your house is tidy.

Good luck.

If they insist on coming in without a warrant doesn't that constitute an illegal search? Then isn't anything obtained "poison fruit" ? Can they take pictures? What about "Pursuit of Happiness" especially since we are not hurting or affecting anyone.

Thanks

I am obviously new to this, but something seems wrong since we own the house and "they" do not own us.

warant!

cover all your windows and screw everyone.
I had a neighbor that had a sink leak that came into my house. townhouse community.
I had to get the county to shut her water off. She didn't let anyone in. Then she was showering at the local gym. eventually after all this suffering. the county made it in using a health dept justilyfation.
finally ater 4 months of crying for ever. FXX county made it in. the house was full of stuff. As long as you don't have animals. yo can have as many books as you want. You don't even have to live there. You can tell the county that you live at your girlfriends house.
All starts with having pets and they can bring cruelty crap and make it inside. once inside. The start calling everyone they can.
just like when the fire dpt is working on a house fire. they can force their way in next door. Then once they find the kiddy porn. they call everyone else . no warant needed.

if you have kids of pets.
they can bring social services and animal control.
they will take pics of all
then youre screw.

Is anyone out there a lawyer who can tell me they need a warrant ?
I don't want any vengeful county people on me because I wasn't sure.
Any links to warrant info ?
Thanks

Q1 maybe maybe not its not a yes or no issue. If they can see it from outside though they dont need one

They need a warrant to enter unless there is probable cause that a crime has been committed, or unless you voluntarily allow them to enter. Beyond that, they can enter with good cause as a Fire Marshall to check on fire hazards, as a Health Inspector, or as Animal Control to see if an animal is being abused.

In any case, they'll knock first... unless you're running a meth lab.

Put up blinds, tidy up the house, and keep it relatively clean.

The first people said that the books are a fire hazard, I checked and found out it is extremely hard to get a closed book to burn. We also have a number of religious icons which were commented on as well, what about religious freedom ?

Thanks

again it depends. if you have an HOA your freedoms are what they tell you they are unless you want to battle it out in court

Are you the one who has the huge scary Madonna in your back yard? I am sorry but she needs to go. She is horrid.

Someone called the Co. on us & told them I had 34 people living in My house. I don't but I would not let them in. So they watched us for weeks & harassed us. I had to put up No Trespassing signs to keep them off my property. I can only think the the person that called was the same person or his Mother that I had to put in jail for bank fraud around the same time. She had never been to my house but used the Co. for revenge.

I don't read books, I BURN them!

YOu can leave or stay in the house while we light them up.

Guy Montag

You're not Mooslim are you? Far too dangerous to have around...

Q1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The first people said that the books are a fire
> hazard, I checked and found out it is extremely
> hard to get a closed book to burn. We also have a
> number of religious icons which were commented on
> as well, what about religious freedom ?
>
> Thanks

What was the first issue that the County was in your home for?
Are you the home owner or do you rent?

There is a blight law on the books. The only thing that I know bout it, is if the County cleans up your stuff; they make you reimbure them at one hundred percent.
That could be $100. per hour or more knowing the county!

You might want to contact a legal person for advise!


-------------------------------------------------------
> We had some people from the county in the house on
> another issue and when they came in they said we
> were hoarding (tons of books everywhere).
> We are not selling books, these are "tools of the
> trade" for a writer. We ran out of bookshelf space
> and started using the floor...we are now boxing
> them.
>
> My questions involve individual personal property
> rights vs. the rights of the county to come in and
> dictate what we should / can have in our own
> home.
> Are they going to try to tell me how many books we
> are allowed to have ?
> Do I have to let the inspector in ? Where is he or
> she allowed to look ?
> Can they go into closets etc. without a warrant?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks

You said in the very beginning you invited them into your house to look at something else. Once they were in your house they observed a situation; they can follow-up on that issue but you can require them to present a judge/magistrate's order (warrant). Did they just comment while there or have they followed up? Unless you presented a seriour fire hazard you will probably not hear from them again. What were they there for in the first place?

From FFC Website: Upon receiving a report of suspected hoarding, an inspection and evaluation are made to determine if the property is safe. Next, county agencies representing the Fairfax County Hoarding Task Force are consulted. Task Force members work together to address the issues and offer compassionate, supportive services.

If the property is determined to be a health or safety hazard to the resident or the community, the property will need to be cleaned. In extreme cases, the resident(s) may need to relocate while the problems are corrected.

The most common conditions that result from long-term hoarding violate laws and ordinances that were created to ensure the safety of the public and the preservation of property.

In Fairfax County, the following local and state laws and ordinances are in effect:

•Fire Prevention Code
•Virginia Maintenance Code (PDF)
•Health and Safety Menace Code
•Zoning Ordinance
•Animal Control Regulations

Does the Fire Marshall need a warrant to come in ?
Thanks

P.S. I never invited them in they just presumed and came in...one had a giun
Thanks

I looked up blight, are books now "Junk" ?
Thanks

No we are not Mooslim, what are you ? Are you next?
Thanks

Blight law info is wrong
thanks
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/code/property/blight/

-------------------------------------------------------
> No we are not Mooslim,

I used to drink skim milk. I've now switched to 2 percent. Does that make me a Mooheavy?

I followed the link that Q1 posted on blight. So, it's not a matter of blight.

Why would they say hoarding?
Storing books on the floor may not be hoarding unless it endangers you/ your family in one way or another.

This sounds like pure harrassment on the 'jailed' person's/ family member's part.

Good luck to you!

When You Suspect Hoarding... If you suspect a hoarding situation in your neighborhood, it is recommended that you do not attempt to clean up the house or solve the person's hoarding problem. The best action you can take is to contact us.

If you think a family member might be a hoarder, it is recommended you seek professional help for that person or professional guidance for yourself in handling the situation. Generally speaking, hoarders may have a mental illness or a medical condition that needs evaluation and treatment.

Hoarders are unaware that their lifestyle is a problem and rarely seek treatment. Typically it is difficult to change this type of behavior without professional assistance. Consult a mental health or medical professional, or contact us for recommendations and referrals.

Upon receiving a report of suspected hoarding, an inspection and evaluation are made to determine if the property is safe. Next, county agencies representing the Fairfax County Hoarding Task Force are consulted. Task Force members work together to address the issues and offer compassionate, supportive services.

If the property is determined to be a health or safety hazard to the resident or the community, the property will need to be cleaned. In extreme cases, the resident(s) may need to relocate while the problems are corrected.

What's a "giun"? It sounds Japanese.

What did they presume? You had to indicate that it was ok
for them to come in. Did you open the door and invite them
or otherwise indicate they could enter? If you didn't want
them in, why would you not step onto the porch and talk there?
I've done that in dealing with the police. Other times I've
had them come in to talk, depending on the situation. And
I'm not even a hoarder...



Q1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P.S. I never invited them in they just presumed
> and came in...one had a giun
> Thanks

Oops Gun hit the i next to the u...
Thanks

you know, we can all guess what's going on all day long - would be easier if you just gave us pics of what the County was talking about when you say "hoarding", OP..............

Q1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oops Gun hit the i next to the u...
> Thanks

OK, "gun". Now we're getting somewhere. But you didn't
cite the county official as a police officer, so I'll assume
he/she was not in uniform. Did this person point the gun at
you or use it in an attempt to intimidate you? How do you
know they had a gun? What identification did they show or did
they just push their way in while showing they had a gun?
Are you sure they really were from the county? Maybe you were
just the victim of a home invasion and didn't realize it.
We need to hear the whole story and don't leave out details
such as what they were wearing - hoodies, maybe?

Sounds like they were a bunch of anti-religious neat-niks!
Merry Maids maybe? If books don't fall under the "blight"
definition, maybe they're just anti-book as well.

I'd recommend a gun bigger than they were carrying.

When the county person calls to arrange an appointment to come see the house how do I answer that we do not want them to come without provoking them?
Do I just say that everything is cleaned up and there is no need for them to come by. I have the feeling that if they come in it will be the beginning of a long line of county people who need to inspect everything. I am sure every one of them will find "problems" to prove they are "doing their job" thoroughly to their bosses.
Thanks

When they knock, just meet them on your porch or lawn and politely decline their entry. using the personal privacy and property reason. Assure them that their is no problem with a fire load etc, etc..

Look at yourself tthough, dude. If someone was concerned enough to drop a dime on you, your place may be a hazard. If it's not, you shouldn't have much to hide, even if the home visit is intrusive and excessive.My guess is that you have let things get way out of control and that you are embarrassed so badly that you are denying to yourself there is a problem. I know it will be a bitch to clean up, but maybe thats what you need to do.



Get some help. I fucking hate hoarders, and would never want you for a neighbor, I guarantee.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

My two cents, having experience in dealing with a hoarder and the physical effect of his hoarding on his house:

Q1, you say you ran out of shelf space and started piling books on the floor.

Something like this is okay.


Something like this or worse, and in several rooms, is not okay.


Depending on factors like how many books you have piled up and in how many rooms, the condition and age of your house, and any other fundamental structure problems, your house could potentially be hazardous. I imagine thousands of books stacked everywhere would put a rather heavy stress on the support beams.

County officials are obligated to make sure it is safe for you to be in your own home. Now, whether they are accurate in their assessment, or just making a mountain out of a molehill, we can't be sure, because we only know your side of the story.

Just putting this out there: how do you keep the house clean with all the books in the way? Maybe there is more cause for alarm than just "piles of books".

You say you're already boxing everything up, right? Then you should be happy to allow them in for a visit, so you can prove that you're already alleviating the situation yourself. No need to be so defensive or paranoid, unless there is a bigger problem you are trying to hide...? In which case, it would be wise to accept the help now, before the amount gets so out of control that you lose all of your possessions and possibly even the house itself.

From FFC Website:

Upon receiving a report of $u$pected hoarding, an in$pection and evaluation are made to determine if the property i$ $afe. Next, county agencie$ repre$enting the Fairfax County Hoarding Ta$k Force are con$ulted. Ta$k Force member$ work together to addre$$ the i$$ue$ and offer compa$$ionate, $upportive $ervice$.

If the property i$ determined to be a health or $afety hazard to the re$ident or the community, the property will need to be cleaned. In extreme ca$e$, the re$ident($) may need to relocate while the problem$ are corrected.

The mo$t common condition$ that re$ult from long-term hoarding violate law$ and ordinance$ that were created to en$ure the $afety of the public and the pre$ervation of property.

In Fairfax County, the following local and $tate law$ and ordinance$ are in effect:
we get your money one way or another.

Q1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Did you ever have a lot of people living with you? The first time the County came was because someone told FX. that you had a lot of people living with you.

Do a lot of people reside in your house?

(I used to keep books until I found many of them were getting little tiny bugs. Like 'flour bugs'-- not book bugs.) I didn't want that in the house, so got rid of many of my books.

Good luck to you!

You have the following rights in Fairfax County. Pay high taxes and keep your mouth shut. Thats it.

Sounds more like you were given sound advise, not a threat so chill the fuck out

if you didn't live like a shit rat perhaps you wouldn't of had the comment

if it was THAT bad where someone made a comment, perhaps you need to re evaluate your self and living conditions......

just sayin'

Warrant or gtfo

This is what I imagine when someone says "Just sayin'" on the internet... and I love it.

Under our constitution of the united states of america no code law or anyone can legally make u do anything u dont want to on your property as long as its not illegal.
Out 4th and 5th amendments protect us from illega search and sezuire as well as protecting ur property life and liberty u can fight any state or county statue that violates those rights because any state or county city ordinance that is not pprotecting those rights are illegal no authority is allowed to tell u what car u can have parked or how high ur grass is tthat is a clear violation of ur 5th amendment rights and can be fought in court and if need be taken to a higher court ur property is yours and if u own it can legally park or do what u want that is legal and does not violate legal laws do not let them in on or arounf your property!!! Post no tresspassing and take it to court get a attourney if u cant afford one go to your nearest local law aids that help people who cant afford them its called legal aid here no one including law code or any enforcment or the powers thar be can violate your rights on your property take them to court do not lay down do research and learn about protecting your rights.. people just assume that the higher powers can do what they want because they voted it in at a council meeting what is and isnt allowed on your property completly illegal and contradicting to our constitution!!

You have the right to deny entry into your home. THe problem is, if you let code compliance into your home for say, a property maintenance violation like hoarding books, the inspector is also a fire marshal, building inspector, zoning enforcement agent or all of the above and can issue a notice of violation for anything they find wrong in your house or on your property. If the inspector tries to intimdate you, call the office and report that. Don't be a pussy, stand up for yourself.

The inspector will get an administrative warrant to simply enter your home with police assistance. It is easy. If somebody complains about your house and there is a violation on their word, the inspector will get it. Better to play nice than be a jerk.

There have been certain instances of Hoarding, usually the most severe are cause for action, A hoarder will usually not only have their house filled, but vehicle as well, so its apparent from Outside the dwelling. I know of a instance where the Home Owner also owned a automotive shop and had tires stacked throughout the Townhouse.Now you could argue its my house, but when you are in a situation of a townhouse you also effect your neighbors, and the potential to cause harm in the event of an Emergency to the first responder's. Common sense would say, if you dont have clear walking areas maybe you should pick up the house, Clutter is not hoarding, Also your collection could shelter many different Rodents, and that also could effect your neighbors,In the end the life you might save by cleaning up your house is yours. I dont know how many books a writer needs for reference materials, of how many different books a writer writes at a time,
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