There's an article from yesterday on washingtonpost.com titled, "Fairfax County teachers propose cutting ‘extras’ in protest". Clearly, considering the timing, this is intended to stoke fear amongst the parents and pressure the Board of Supervisors to increase the school budget which may ultimately lead to a higher tax rate, in addition to the increased assessments.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/va/

"Teachers will work to the rule"???? Does that mean the ones that bug out during their "planning period" will actually stay and "plan"?

I am all for teacher raises. The teachers deserve them! There would be money for the raises if they cut back on the waste (and there is more than enough waste to pay for the raises). Will the new superintendent and the school board have the fortitude to do what needs to be done? Sadly, no. It's the same old game. Meet the new players, same as the old players. Same strategy, same outcomes, same frustrations.

Keep in mind this is one group of teachers in one school out of 196 schools and centers.

Maybe they are just warning us before they leave for Falls Church, Arlington, Alexandria or Prince William.

When Karen Garza and the clowns on the school board plan to eliminate turf fields, football, cheerleading, marching band and so on then it might be time to consider some of these increases. But for now, let the teachers live with the decisions made by their leaders.

And, tell Garza and the rest "not just no, but HELL FUCKING no" to any possible tax increase. Who wants to pay for turf fields that benefit helicopter parents and the elite in their private athletic clubs?

Why not give them an increase? I mean, that last budget increase brought up test scores, right? In all seriousness, the BoS should be taking money from the schools until they see an increase in education.
Everyone talks about giving teachers raises but when you look at their hourly rate they aren't doing too bad, especially when you account for how many extra days off they have had this year, with more surely to come this week.

Teachers just want the step increases that they are supposed to receive. They are not asking for more then that. Thousands of people come to fcps under the impression that there is a pay scale. I don't think that many would enter such a thankless and disrespected profession for a terminal $57000 a year. The BOS and school board need to scrap the pay scale and stop lying. I wonder how many teachers there would be in this area after that?!?!?

Teachers have a set contract time. However we stay later for things like back to school nights and staff meetings. We also do things like grading and writing references. I am at school past my contract time 95% of the time. I have 80 kids a day in three classes with one planning period of 90 minutes. It isn't enough time to get things done. Plus you add in getting pulled for things like proctoring SOL's or IEP meetings during planning and we really cant get things done. Work to the Rule means we actually leave at our contract time. We don't skip school or not do our planning period. We get as much done as possible in our contract time. And for the record, we don't have two months of paid vacation in the summer, its unpaid leave which is used by many teachers to either work in another job or to do unpaid training.

tgb Wrote:
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> Keep in mind this is one group of teachers in one
> school out of 196 schools and centers.


Yeah! All the other teachers are perfectly content to have not received a pay raise for five years!
Some of you high and mighty pricks, especially you stay at home types who do nothing but sit around and helicopter over your kids, would do well to remember that some of your property value is derived from the quality of the public schools.

However, I am not the type to throw bombs without offering a solution . Mr. McKay says, " The victims in that situation will be the kids in our school system" if teachers "Work to the rule". Of course, teachers' children are already victims since their parents can't get a raise, but I digress. There is a simple solution, and it is this: cancel all high school sports programs until the budget situation is rectified. This will save the county tons of money in transportation, equipment, and upkeep. Plus, community groups can rent the vacant fields for an additional source of revenue. If Mr. McKay practices what he preaches, he will surely concede that removing sports, which benefits only a small population of the overall student body in a given school, and giving the money saved to teachers in order to placate them would be a great way to look out for ALL students. Happier teachers, no work to the rule, students benefitting= a win. Many countries in Europe don't have interscholastic competitions, and in many sports college recruiting happens elsewhere: school sports are just for fun. Is the "fun" of a small segment of the student population more worthwhile than providing a good education for the whole population? Surely, Mr.Mcay will agree with me.

maybetheyleave Wrote:
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> Maybe they are just warning us before they leave
> for Falls Church, Arlington, Alexandria or Prince
> William.


Yes they can be added to the waiting list in those jurisdictions, wont happen, they wont leave. Just as Fairfax has an applicant waiting list for teachers. Many young teachers would be more than willing just to have their jobs. For those of us that have lived here a good while, its the scheduled crying wolf with union cheerleaders at the helm.

Kroy38 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's an article from yesterday on
> washingtonpost.com titled, "Fairfax County
> teachers propose cutting ‘extras’ in protest".
> Clearly, considering the timing, this is intended
> to stoke fear amongst the parents and pressure the
> Board of Supervisors to increase the school budget
> which may ultimately lead to a higher tax rate, in
> addition to the increased assessments.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/va/


I would say it is the Board of Supervisors who are causing the fear, by predicting the results of the vote before they take it. It is hypocritical for all of the armchair decision makers and clock punchers to even talk. Ask any teacher you know, when is the last time you surfed the web at work.

For those who say of course just pay the teachers.

You realize that as real estate owners you are agreeing to pay between $150-250 per year additional in new real estate taxes per household forever to sustain this?

You are already going to pay an additional $300/year in real estate taxes in 2014 because your assessments have increased in the past year. It will take a tax rate increase above the current rate to pay for additional teacher salaries.

>
>
> Yes they can be added to the waiting list in those
> jurisdictions, wont happen, they wont leave. Just
> as Fairfax has an applicant waiting list for
> teachers. Many young teachers would be more than
> willing just to have their jobs. For those of us
> that have lived here a good while, its the
> scheduled crying wolf with union cheerleaders at
> the helm.

Actually, FCPS have a significant shortage of teachers for their critical fill positions (i.e., autism, math, sciences, spl/OT, sped in general). These teachers are in very high demand AND they are heading to Arlington, etc. Why wouldn't they?? My principal was just talking about how difficult it is to fill an autism position with an effective teacher. These teachers have to be applied behavioral analysis therapists AND special educators.

One year, the science dept up and quit bc they had enough of the principal so that shortage was self inflicted by the school system.

there are young teachers who would love a full time job in any of those subjects.

the long list of subs are college grads who cannot find jobs anywhere else.

teachers deserve raises, take the artificial turf field money and use it to pay the teachers.

teachers teach 3 classes a day.

people in the general workforce work a full 8 hour day, they attend night meetings, they finish work at home at night, they work every day in the summer and hence get paid for it, they work on teacher work days, they work on some fcps holidays, they work on fcps snow days, women are expected to dress nicely, function at work despite all of the kid disruptions from the fcps schedule, and make all the loss time work into a two weeks of vacation time a here.

some teachers make a pretty good salary all things considered.

hmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> there are young teachers who would love a full
> time job in any of those subjects.


Really!? Are you sure?? Where is your data? I'm pretty sure that it is just your opinion, which is worthless.

Haha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > there are young teachers who would love a full
> > time job in any of those subjects.
>
>
> Really!? Are you sure?? Where is your data? I'm
> pretty sure that it is just your opinion, which is
> worthless.


yes I am sure, get out of your ignorant fcps bubble and step into the real world for one day

yes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Haha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmm Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > there are young teachers who would love a
> full
> > > time job in any of those subjects.
> >
> >
> > Really!? Are you sure?? Where is your data? I'm
> > pretty sure that it is just your opinion, which
> is
> > worthless.
>
>
> yes I am sure, get out of your ignorant fcps
> bubble and step into the real world for one day

Again - you are just using your opinion. I have lived in several countries, earned several advanced degrees, and this is my third career. Who is the ignorant one here?? It is clearly you. Stop ASSuming that you know a person based on their job title. Idiot.

"Maybe they are just warning us before they leave for Falls Church, Arlington, Alexandria or Prince William."

Which, of course, are all hiring huge numbers...

Oh, wait. They're not? You mean there are so many Longwood grads out there looking for .edu jobs that supply > demand? Whodathunkit?

If you think a first year teacher out of Longwood is equal to an experienced (at least 5 years) teacher, you know very little about education. If you don't care about more than a warm body in front of your children, go ahead and keep the pay low and keep the turnover high as teachers will stay only long enough to realize that they can move on to other higher paying and more appreciated careers (especially those with science and math degrees). There is a shortage of science and math teachers. Many of those teachers are teaching outside of their college areas of study (they did not major in those areas). Some people posting here need a reality check.

There are any number of shortages out there, but teachers aren't in short supply. Sucks, huh?

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

Mark Twain

TO ALL THE EINSTEINS OUT THERE (the noveau riche that hoarde their money):Keep pushing your luck. When you end up with all these private charter schools taking your public funds with NO obligation to be transparent with their salaries...THEN you will REALLY know how expensive it can get. Think your doctor. Right now public salaries are public UNLESS you are a charter school then you don't have to disclose salaries. Those CEOs and COOs make $1 million combined for ONE school. It makes the teacher in FCPS asking for a reasonable average salary of $65 K...very fair indeed. Watch what you wish for or you will have NO voice at all. Do you really want to corporatize/walmartize EVERYTHING?!?!?

I think it's fair for the teachers to request a reasonable salary increase.

What's not fair is to generalize Fairfax County as 'the noveau riche that hoarde their money'. Yes there are affluent neighborhoods and yes it has a high ranking amongst other counties. However, what about the residents that are putting in 60-80 hour weeks with zero pay raise, the elderly, or the sick who own homes and just saw their assessments skyrocket? These probably aren't the majority, but they're far from the few too.

Pubic opinion will turn against the teachers harshly if they take this to the extreme or show disrespect towards their employers, Fairfax County. They need to do a better job of proposing new revenue sources.

Parents can do better at showing appreciation too and work towards minimizing time beyond the contract when the teachers feel slighted. Maybe volunteer to chaperone for them, one less e-mail nagging about grades, or sending their kid in with a restaurant gift card once in a while.

Funny haha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Haha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > hmm Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > >
> > > > there are young teachers who would love a
> > full
> > > > time job in any of those subjects.
> > >
> > >
> > > Really!? Are you sure?? Where is your data?
> I'm
> > > pretty sure that it is just your opinion,
> which
> > is
> > > worthless.
> >
> >
> > yes I am sure, get out of your ignorant fcps
> > bubble and step into the real world for one day
>
> Again - you are just using your opinion. I have
> lived in several countries, earned several
> advanced degrees, and this is my third career. Who
> is the ignorant one here?? It is clearly you. Stop
> ASSuming that you know a person based on their job
> title. Idiot.



you are an ass. many people come from foreign countries and understand how the American system fits in with other nations. shove your advanced degrees up your ass because you have no common sense. elimination of college recommendation letters will not fix the shortage of autism teachers. there have been a shortage of good math and science teachers for the past 20 years because Fairfax county focused on history and remained in denial about the poor math program in the country's elite school system. the day of reckoning is here, indian and Asian kids are kicking the butts of white kids, and refusing to help with the science fair will not help the special ed classrooms.

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Maybe they are just warning us before they leave
> for Falls Church, Arlington, Alexandria or Prince
> William."
>
> Which, of course, are all hiring huge numbers...
>
> Oh, wait. They're not? You mean there are so many
> Longwood grads out there looking for .edu jobs
> that supply > demand? Whodathunkit?


All jurisdictions have skyrocketing enrollment (that means more students to the slower of you). Fairfax is going to increase class size and cut positions while giving no cost of living raises. There are plenty of jobs out there for teachers - we will lose good teachers and our class sizes will increase. End of the world? Not at all but it will reduce property taxes as the school system becomes weaker.

^property Values (taxes will have to rise as property value goes down)

Full disclosure: I'm a teacher. I am in my 7th year of teaching after careers in the military and private enterprise. I do it because I want to. Despite my previous experience, FCPS pays me only on years of teaching, so I make about 57000. I live in FFX Co and do not want my property taxes to increase -- it will offset any raise I get as a result.

OK, here's my "thought experiment":

Let's say you had $2.2B (or whatever the Board of Supervisors comes up with for the transfer) and all the physical property OWNED by FCPS, and the debt on outstanding bond issues. Your goal: educate 180,000 students. How would you budget the money? This is my proposal:

1.Budget the debt service and facilities cost (they are recurring obligations)
2. Budget all the REQUIREMENTS from outside authorities: Virginia DOE and US Dept of Education
3. Staff the schools to meet these requirements first. This will drive classes and class sizes to those required by the Commonwealth. Budget a decent pay scale with reasonable increases.
4. Staff the administration of each school based on the requirements.
5. Budget transportation cost and vehicle maintenance and renewal
6. Budget food service and school based maintenance
7. required support functions: HR, comptroller, SOME IT,and purchasing.

This is really all the county MUST DO. Everything else are things the county WANTS TO DO. The sum of these things is probably less than $2.2B. With the remaining money, prioritize everything else:
a. Gatehouse staff -su
b. Superintendents office and clusters
c. special programs
d. sports
e. music
f. arts
g. field trips
h. school personnel who do not spend their time in the classroom.
i. leased facilities

If a-h cannot be afforded, cut it. If a-h can generate income to pay for itself, keep it. Result: We probably can educate the kids, live within in our budget and keep the backbone of the school system motivated. Many things that the community wants will be cut.

I believe that the school system is in crisis because we lost sight of the core function: education. The money should be spent as close to the classroom as possible. We ARE in in crisis, and it requires some back to basics thinking.

Teachers would be much better off advocating "teachers first", instead of sticking with the unions and the Gatehouse position that we must have the full 5%+ transfer increase. We should cut ties and advocate a complete overhaul of the entrenched programs listed above and try to live within our means while getting a raise and focusing more on education.

you actually make sense.

the school system does not have a good accounting system and therefore does not know where the money is going.

the uncontrolled illegal immigration has overwhelmed the people supporting the school system.

continuation of free benefits to this increasing population and complaining that there aren't enough teachers to help this populations takes away from the ability to give raises to the other core teachers.

the school system will not disclose how many administrators work out of gatehouse or why they are needed.

music and sports and largely supported by the parents via boosters. trips are funded exclusively through fund raising.

the extra aides are needed because of the increased mental health, iep, esol requests.

the screening process for need based services should be evaluated.

everyone assumes that the rest of the workforce, excluding teachers, is married to a rich doctor or lawyer. this is incorrect. parents work to pay their mortgages, many people have lost jobs, we still have to support our children.

"the uncontrolled illegal immigration has overwhelmed the people supporting the school system."


Right there is the heart of the issue.

> you are an ass. many people come from foreign
> countries and understand how the American system
> fits in with other nations. shove your advanced
> degrees up your ass because you have no common
> sense. elimination of college recommendation
> letters will not fix the shortage of autism
> teachers. there have been a shortage of good math
> and science teachers for the past 20 years because
> Fairfax county focused on history and remained in
> denial about the poor math program in the
> country's elite school system. the day of
> reckoning is here, indian and Asian kids are
> kicking the butts of white kids, and refusing to
> help with the science fair will not help the
> special ed classrooms.



As if I thought an autism teacher would fix the college letter problem...

You are so disillusioned that I think you would be better served continuing your tantrum in your cubical/mother's basement.

Have fun in your tiny world.

wrong again

you have no idea how the school system fits in

.
Attachments:

The only "fear" here is that you are going to get what you pay for--freeze the salaries and tell them they are "lucky to have a job" means you get 7:10 to 2:40 and nothing else

teachers deserve a raise, true.

but raising taxes isn't the answer.

cut out the crap spending that goes on in the county.

school administrators are pushing teachers to lobby for increased taxes.

well, instead they should lobby for the end to wasteful spending. too many adminsitrators in the school system. too many sub school principals. too many "counselors". too much double-dipping.

The answer is SO simple. DUMP TRANSPORTATION (other than that required by law)!!!

This would save at least $100 million per year. Enough to fund significant teacher raises.

The bus fleet is so old that transportation is going to collapse anyway. Why wait? Sell the bus fleet for scrap, fire the drivers, and spend the savings on things that directly affect students and learning. It's a no brainer!

PSSST...Just wait until they start the high schools later. FCPS is gonna need a whole lot more buses! They will be making more cuts. But, let's be sure Dr. Garza keeps driving that new Acura. In fact, I think I'd be interested in having all perks disclosed, especially take home vehicles. Seems to me if you are a highly paid, you could drive your own car and pay it's expenses like other employees must do.

Step 1:
Get together and vote out the SOL tests. This costs us all to over test kids, especially here in Fairfax County. What do we really want to know, anyhow? Why not do sample testing, anyhow? Maybe tests them all at 2 points throughout their career. This would save us tons of money.
- Kiss off the test manufacturer for the state. Let us make it. Have a panel of teachers, community people, and parents create the test.
- Wouldn't need to update computers as much for those fancy online questions. The PISA test we all moan about that our kids do bad on (compared to the rest of the world) is all paper pencil. WTF do we need some tetsing company telling us that because Johnny has drag and drop the dot that the test is so much harder?

Step 2:
Get rid of as much paper as possible. The schools send home more paper than you can believe. Seriously, each kid is probably $20 in paper, plus the copier and all that comes with it, the electricity, etc. And that is per year! It's probably cheaper to buy the kid a device and fund some wireless plans than that.

Step 3:
Not that I want to drive kids around more, but we need to solve some of this equation by asking for money to transport kids.

So, here is my math:

Charge .75 per day for riding the bus for 180 days.

180 * .75 = $135 per year.

135 x 120,000 kids (subtracted 1/3 for special ed kids, low income, etc.) = 16.2 million per year


Pretty sure we can charge to bus kids based on Virginia Law.

Step 4
Charge to advertise. I mean, start with the local companies and allow them to put up signs or sponsor a stadium or something. I doubt our kids really would care and they are pretty bombarded with ads anyhow. I also think they are supposed to be learning about advertisement, too.

Step 5
Start charging more for community use of facilities.

Ok, so those are my 5 steps. I think this could save (or off-set by earning) close to 25 million per year. It's not much, but it is a start and could get raises every couple of years for teachers.

Across the river in Montgomery Co., politicians not only make unsustainable promises, they make donations to the teachers union's PAC for its endorsement. You know that's where these little socialists want to take us. State control by the party's elites.

Some places to start:

FLES 5 million
Busing for AAP 4.4 Million
Busing for elementary magnets .5 million
TJ admissions office .5M
TJ transportation 1.2 Million
magnet schools $800K plus
AAP 10 million
FLimmersion 2.1 Million
5.6 professional development
IB high school 3million for less than 6000 students--AP is about the same for almost 3 times the number of kids
MS IB 1M
untold millions for Gatehouse personnel with vague explanations

I read somewhere last week that FCPS spends 19 Million on subs--many of those days are for teachers who are in training.

I want good schools. However, if I have to trim my budget to pay taxes, I want my money being put to good use. Not "nice to have".

All jurisdictions have skyrocketing enrollment

Er, no.

ok, so say a teacher salary is $50K from late August to late June.

during these 10 months, there are 2 fall teacher days, columbus day, veterans day, thanksgiving and the day after, Christmas break, new years day, inauguration day, king day, 2 teacher work days, presidents day, spring break, memorial day, 2 weeks in june for picnics and party after the testing is done.

add in the snow days, say 3 in a given year, this year was an exception. add in the vacation and sick time that is allowed.

forgetting about the unpaid 2 months in the summer, getting paid for all that time off seems like a pretty good deal.

this is not to say that teachers don't deserve a raise for putting up with all the other bullcrap.

I love how people think a teacher work day is a day off.

Wow, the BOS ended up advertising the higher tax rate this week. Do we know which Board members voted for and against this move???

so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok, so say a teacher salary is $50K from late
> August to late June.
>
> during these 10 months, there are 2 fall teacher
> days, columbus day, veterans day, thanksgiving and
> the day after, Christmas break, new years day,
> inauguration day, king day, 2 teacher work days,
> presidents day, spring break, memorial day, 2
> weeks in june for picnics and party after the
> testing is done.
>
> add in the snow days, say 3 in a given year, this
> year was an exception. add in the vacation and
> sick time that is allowed.
>
> forgetting about the unpaid 2 months in the
> summer, getting paid for all that time off seems
> like a pretty good deal.
>
> this is not to say that teachers don't deserve a
> raise for putting up with all the other bullcrap.

50K divided by duty days of approximately 185 (less with all the snow days, but lets not count those) is $270/day. An 8 hour day makes that $33.75 an hour, before benefits.

Now, if you wanted to work a typical private sector job of 2080/year, at that hourly rate your make $70K year. And for that, when it snowed you'd be expected to get to work anyway or work from home.

Seems to me 70K per year annualized to teach the same subject year after year, with summers off, is a pretty good deal.

It's a damn good deal. "teachers" are little more than babysitters. Parents want to ditch the kids for a few hours, so it's "here ya go, and I don't want to hear a whimper from anyone".
The other side of the equation is that County continues to raise & spend monies like the proverbial drunken sailor, but when the crunch comes, it's threaten the base with "teachers, Police, Fire, and other services" - but hey, we need more mouthbreathers in the Taj playing solitaire 8 hours/day.

do the math - you just showed that teachers have unpaid leave for the summer. They don't get 70k, they get 50k. In order to make up the difference they have to work another job.

Teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> do the math - you just showed that teachers have
> unpaid leave for the summer. They don't get 70k,
> they get 50k. In order to make up the difference
> they have to work another job.


oooohhhhh - another job? How horrible. In your 2.5 months off in the summer? That's like losing a limb or something. To have to WORK to get PAID.

Teachers are paid on an annualized rate of 70K/year if they get paid 50K for the school year. They are free to work or not work in the summer - if they don't, why is that the taxpayers problem? We don't give park rangers or lifeguards raises because they don't work all winter.

I love how you added a month to the summer off. We work till the end of June and go back mid August. My point was that we have the summer off unpaid, and if we want more money we need to get a second job. I'm sorry you took it as me wanting more taxpayer money to do nothing.

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a damn good deal. "teachers" are little more
> than babysitters. Parents want to ditch the kids
> for a few hours, so it's "here ya go, and I don't
> want to hear a whimper from anyone".
> The other side of the equation is that County
> continues to raise & spend monies like the
> proverbial drunken sailor, but when the crunch
> comes, it's threaten the base with "teachers,
> Police, Fire, and other services" - but hey, we
> need more mouthbreathers in the Taj playing
> solitaire 8 hours/day.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Don't you know yet? Things are not true just because you believe them. Where is your evidence? When is the last time you were actually in a school. My guess - About 10 years ago, right before you graduated. I am positive that you don't have kids in the school system. Thank goodness. If you do luck into having children somehow, please send them to Catholic school.

but hysterically funny. No, really.

Though it would be a bit interesting if you ever posted something even remotely related to a given topic.

But hey, throw up some big graphics again or something, 'kay?

the garza bitch is from mexico or close enough. she's here to attack the usa.

do Ukrainian teachers complain if the make $57,000 USD / yr ?

do mexian teachers complain if the make $57,000 USD / yr ?

do even australian teachers complain if the make $57,000 USD / yr ?

-------------------------------------
BECAUSE SHE CAME TO GET MONEY SHE'LL GET IT OR HURT YOU

that is her "argument"

full of faulty logic. she's a marauder. get her out.

------------------------------------
i'm having medical difficulties i'm so harassed and oppressed by family and fairfax county. both which sued me without an iota of reason. after years: i'm saying fuck you PROVE IT. and i'm suing them.

serious medical difficulties due to these torturing facists.

as in - unsure how to end my days thinking about that serious.

IT IS NOT A JOKE

i'm not only sick of government that decides it's own pay

i'm doing my part TO GET RID OF THE BITCH FROM HELL

btw. that serious g.i. problems.

due to malnutrtion and being forced to stay in a dusty concrete room. harassed and prosecuted if i leave it: by fx. co., and family. if i wish to work. even take a walk.

they refuse to mediate or budge an inch on any of the abuses or lack of freedoms. i have court papers and or physical evidences showing it.

and i already had disability. the bitch.

i've been hospitalized for poisoning (not to mention traumatic injuries) i didn't do to myself 2x.

this is a damn hit that is below the belt

no i wouldn't put money on they aren't poisoning me.

i've been poisoned seriously 2x, hospitalized. i've had murder attempts on me by family and maybe fairfax.

i done with people stealing and defaming me. i'm done with them cheating in court.

done any way you cut it.

----------------------
we all know she's only about jose's making more way for jose's dick.

and bull o va too. they haven't a moral strand or fiber.

they belong in prison moreso than many of the women they put in there. ALLOT more.

Teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> do the math - you just showed that teachers have
> unpaid leave for the summer. They don't get 70k,
> they get 50k. In order to make up the difference
> they have to work another job.


no kidding, if I didn't work in the summer, I would not get paid, it would be called unpaid leave for unpaid work. why is this a sticking point with teachers?

many teachers work on snow days, they definitely work on teacher work days, they work at night, they don't get much lunch time, they attend special events.

many non-teachers work on snow days, they work on teacher work days, they work at night, they work through lunch, they volunteer at events in support of the school and their own children.

teachers work hard. period. no one should dispute this fact.

however, people should keep in mind that the private sector imploded and teachers are doing better than a lot of others. many people have not gotten raises in 8 years, their health insurance has gone up, college costs of gone up, gas has gone up, meds have gone up, food has gone up. teachers are not an isolated segment of the population who cannot make ends meet.

tgb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keep in mind this is one group of teachers in one
> school out of 196 schools and centers.


Actually, I've heard that a notice went to all teachers and staff within the FCPS. They were all encouraged to speak out.

These protestors have no concept of finances. If they wanted to get serious to protest about something, then they should have focused on the higher-salaried administrative positions within the FCPS. It's those people who work at Gatehouse day in and day out - the intellectual types who keep working on matrixes for the educators to follow ... yet have such lofty goals, one could spend the whole day trying just to achieve the results.

What happened to regular teaching? The roadblocks have to be cleared out of the way so that students can get a proper education instead of trying to derail and cripple their brains.

1. In the meeting at McLean HS, the term "work to the rule" was never mentioned by any of those interviewed.
2. Teachers work 10 month contracts. There is no "two and one half months off" in the summer. This year they will be off June 24 to August 25 - thus off July and one week in June and three in August - two months.
3. As the general public cannot seem to fathom that the pay is for 10 months only, suggest they publish an hourly rate of pay for all teachers working their 8 hours in the building so those who think they are getting cheated by paying the salaries can compare their hourly pay to that of teachers.
4. As most teachers do take work home, do work on weekends, do work during school holidays, suggest they bill FCPS for all such work, or simply not do it.

That would not be working to the rule, it would be working for what you are paid for in the minds of the public.

Teachers work a 194 day contract. That comes to less than 39 weeks. That comes to more than 13 weeks off. The poster above left out the holidays and weeks off in December and April. They may only get two months in the summer, but few other jobs offer three weeks off during the year plus many federal holidays.

There are many jobs that demand work outside of work hours. Those are called professions. Teaching used to be a profession before the unions got hold of it.

p.s. I taught for many years. I do agree that teaching is a difficult job and that teachers deserve more pay. However, they do get three months off. NOt just all in the summer.

Debbie Downer Democrat XXX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tgb Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

> Actually, I've heard that a notice went to all
> teachers and staff within the FCPS. They were all
> encouraged to speak out.
>

Karen Garza, Community Organizer. Nice.

4 items to consider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 4. As most teachers do take work home, do work on
> weekends, do work during school holidays, suggest
> they bill FCPS for all such work, or simply not do
> it.


This is such BS. My experience with FCPS teachers is that vast majority do the bare minimum. Maybe there's one dedicated teacher per grade (maybe) who really puts in an extra effort. For the rest, the ass rockets go off with the last bell - no evening work, e-mails, etc.

The best example I can give is Blackboard. Ask about anything and the usual answer is 'It's on Blackboard'. Well, about half the time it's not - the level of adoption of that expensive technology is pathetic. That is not the work people work are working day and night on educational excellence.

According to the latest Washington Post article they are considering a meal tax in addition to the raised assessments and proposed raised tax rates! I'm sure Garza would find something to do with the extra $$$.

the raised tax assessments will force the families who are on the brink to seek free lunch and other free services. then the school system will ask for more money because the needs have gone up. it is a vicious circle.

I have more of an issue with county government workers (federal contractors) sitting on their ass. Especially IT Administrators.........

The teacher argument is old.... taxes will always increase. Good schools keep property values up.

You need good public schools if you want to maintain or increase property values. There are plenty of examples in Maryland and Virginia of jurisdictions with second rate school systems and lower property values as a direct result of having second rate schools. I can't think of a better tax investment than putting money into our schools. If FCPS can't find a way to pay deserving teachers, those teachers will find their way to other school systems who will pay them for their hard work. It's as simple as that.

The problem isn't the lack of funds. It is how the funds are used. Get rid of Gatehouse specialists that don't teach and create more work for teachers. Get rid of special programs that require busing to schools outside the neighborhoods. Get rid of unnecessary programs--FLES and immersion.
All of those cuts would lower administrative costs and lower the number of teachers. Then, pay teachers more. Problem solved.

No, the problem is delusional whiners, like yourself, who believe that a 185,000 student school district runs itself. It's not Gatehouse specialists creating more work for teachers, it's hairbrained legislation, like no child left behind and the ridiculous SOL's, that have teachers handcuffed and constantly scurrying to teach to the lowest common denominator. This county is adding 20,000 new students next year and you are proposing to have fewer teachers teaching them? Yes, you're delusional.

FCPS is up 30K in 15 Years, blowhard. 156K to 179K isn't exactly "explosive" or even "serious" growth, unlike that mole on your face.

The issue isn't FCPS, though - it's the COUNTY, who's spending $$$$ everywhere else like it's f'ing water.


http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2002/100_largest/table_app_a_1.asp

You need good public schools if you want to maintain or increase property values"

??? It's the opposite. A rising economy = more revenue = more available for schools. Do you seriously believe that FFX schools were better than decent in the 70s/80s?

Why not start by getting $16MM conservation easement money back from Salona boondoggle. Not only did they get fat stacks they got long term property tax break - double boondoggle.

response to unreality:

Read the post. It said get rid of FLES teachers, Gatehouse specialists who don't teach and make more work for teachers, quit busing AAP and magnet schools. Get rod of immersion--which also requires extra teachers. Take the savings and give it to the classroom teachers who TEACH. Not to specialists in Gatehouse and instructional coaches.
You have no idea how many "teachers" never see kids.

jo blo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have more of an issue with county government
> workers (federal contractors) sitting on their
> ass. Especially IT Administrators.........
>
> The teacher argument is old.... taxes will always
> increase. Good schools keep property values up.


you missed the point. yes good schools keep property values up. when shopping for a house, the price will correlate to the school. the higher the price, the fewer free lunchers.

taxes are going up because fcps wastes the money. increasing taxes means increasing waste?

why did the student population boom? where is the growth? ever wonder why they keep re-drawing the boundaries? to balance the free lunchers? increasing taxes means increasing free give aways.

if you give it away for free while requiring little proof, they will keep coming.

Enough is Enough of this gilded lily FCPS. Good schools = property tax value = Crap! There are $$ jobs here because of Uncle Sam thats why people are here. Fairfax has been throwing money at the schools for 40 years now.

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa746.pdf
Attachments:

I am an elementary school teacher. If you have not taught in the last 5 years, or had kids in K-6, then you don't really know what is going on at the lower levels.

First, the SOL standards have gotten much harder. Do you know what a composite number is? Do you know how sound wave frequency and pitch are related? What is difference between Hertz and decibels? Can you identify all the parts of the ocean floor? Can you determine the mean, median, mode and range of a set of numbers? These are fifth grade standards. I teach my students things I learned in middle and high school.

Secondly, the SOL tests have been gotten harder (increased rigor). Sometimes the student has to choose the "BEST" answer or some questions have 2 correct answers. There are a lot of questions which say - "Which are not true?" the word "false" is never used. The questions are intentionally confusing.

As a teacher, not only do I not get raises, I take home less money this year than last. Does that seem right?

We are required by our principal to take classes after school. So after working all day, we get into our cars and drive to a class that will go from 4:30 to 7:30. We don't get paid; we don't get comp time, but we do get homework. We are treated like we don't know anything.

Then we have co-workers, coaches, math specialists, and reading specialists who do very little, if any, teaching. We feel like they are spies and we know they report back to the principal. I am a taxpayer in Fairfax County and I hate the idea that my taxes are paying a coach who has not taught in years! Now, it is March and theses people are coming into our classrooms to "help" us.

Each year, people who don't teach, come up with activities for us to do. In our spare time we should call parents, plan, make copies, get books for our guided reading groups, organize science materials and update blackboard. Some teachers at my school have days with no breaks the entire day except during their 30 minute lunch.

Then there are the meetings! We have two hour long CLT meetings a week ( one for reading and one for math)where we discuss what we are teaching. There are very strict guidelines about pacing. If we miss school due to snow days, too bad, the coach reminds us that we need to test our students. Then we have faculty meetings almost every Monday. Once a marking period, we meet to discuss "data," not children, "data." While we meet, the taxpayers are paying subs to teach our students.

I think I can say that most,if not all, teachers just want time to teach and plan. We didn't go into the profession to make money, but who wants to take home less money each month.

Shame on the Board of Supervisors!

My principal loves to remind us that we are salaried employees! Therefore, she can make us take classes after school and go to meetings at night.

Many principals give us work/books to read and blog about over the summer. We get e-mails everyday with opportunities for professional development after school, on weekends and during the summer. No pay or comp time.

Another point,we do get the summer off, but we do NOT get paid during those months.

tired teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> First, the SOL standards have gotten much harder.
> Do you know what a composite number is? Do you
> know how sound wave frequency and pitch are
> related? What is difference between Hertz and
> decibels? Can you identify all the parts of the
> ocean floor? Can you determine the mean, median,
> mode and range of a set of numbers? These are
> fifth grade standards. I teach my students things
> I learned in middle and high school.

Yes, I can. And I could before fifth grade as I went to independent schools where teachers taught rather than bitched and tried to blackmail parents with threats of increased taxation.

6dGPn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tired teacher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > First, the SOL standards have gotten much
> harder.
> > Do you know what a composite number is? Do you
> > know how sound wave frequency and pitch are
> > related? What is difference between Hertz and
> > decibels? Can you identify all the parts of the
> > ocean floor? Can you determine the mean,
> median,
> > mode and range of a set of numbers? These are
> > fifth grade standards. I teach my students
> things
> > I learned in middle and high school.
>
> Yes, I can. And I could before fifth grade as I
> went to independent schools where teachers taught
> rather than bitched and tried to blackmail parents
> with threats of increased taxation.

Plus our school was all Asians and Caucasians. And not full of illegal immigrants and half-retarded "you-know-whats."

Fire the coaches, knock all of that crap off.

Hire teachers who know what pitch and frequency are. Forget hiring the ones who are really volleyball coaches.

Cancel football.

Cancel the turf fields.

Ban Boosterthon.

Then take a look at the schools.

In the meantime, though, no more money. Vote McElveen, Kaufax, Moon, Storck, Reed and the rest of the fools off of the school board. Any Board of Supervisors member agreeing to tax increases should be voted off as well.

Plain and simple, the schools waste a lot of money on side issue silliness and there's nothing to show for it.

solutions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fire the coaches, knock all of that crap off.
>
> Hire teachers who know what pitch and frequency
> are. Forget hiring the ones who are really
> volleyball coaches.
>
> Cancel football.
>
> Cancel the turf fields.
>
> Ban Boosterthon.
>
> Then take a look at the schools.
>
> In the meantime, though, no more money. Vote
> McElveen, Kaufax, Moon, Storck, Reed and the rest
> of the fools off of the school board. Any Board of
> Supervisors member agreeing to tax increases
> should be voted off as well.
>
> Plain and simple, the schools waste a lot of money
> on side issue silliness and there's nothing to
> show for it.


That's actually quite reasonable.

In addition? Deport the illegal immigrants. And start imprisoning those who break the law by employing them.

We all make less money this year. New tax rules. Not unique to teachers.

Not unique to teachers."

But we're special! See, I've got a whole line of "teachers are special" mugs lined up on the window sill over there. Plus, there's all kinds of "teachers are special" goodies that students bring to me 'cause they just LOOOOOVE me.

Tired - I wish more teachers would publicly push back against the FCPS administration bureaucracy that is crippling instruction time and wearing down the teachers. I have witnessed over the last 10-12 years an increasing testing/documentation regime being put on teachers virtually none of which has anything to do with actually teaching and improving my kids education.

We all know about the wasteful bureaucracy. We need to let the school board and board of supervisors know what we think: knock it off, or we'll elect people who will.

The excesses of Jack Dale were awful, Karen Garza is worse. She should be sent packing back to Texas. Patty Reed wants taxation power for the board, why, to pay for turf fields? Vote her out of office. Sharon Bulova wants to spend more on the schools, she wants to raise taxes? Vote her out as well.

All of these people have email. Email them and tell them that they can start looking for something else to do if things don't change quickly.

tired teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am an elementary school teacher. If you have
> not taught in the last 5 years, or had kids in
> K-6, then you don't really know what is going on
> at the lower levels.
>
> First, the SOL standards have gotten much harder.
> Do you know what a composite number is? Do you
> know how sound wave frequency and pitch are
> related? What is difference between Hertz and
> decibels? Can you identify all the parts of the
> ocean floor? Can you determine the mean, median,
> mode and range of a set of numbers? These are
> fifth grade standards. I teach my students things
> I learned in middle and high school.

None of those are terribly complicated and all seem reasonable things for fifth graders to know.

Sooooo in other words...

1) You bind and hobble your students with your own low expectations

and/or

2) You are too stupid to understand the material

So WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING "TEACHING?"

It's telling that the tired bitch couldn't even respond.

FCPS: peddling the the soft bigotry low expectations.

Make fun of teachers all you want. I came to teaching from a wall street law firm. I loved working with kids and did a great job. I grew to hate all of the non classroom expectations/requirements and finally left after 9 years. Parents were very upset that I left and I was replaced by a brand new teacher. Excellent teachers are being pushed away by administrators who have their heads up their asses much to the detriment of the kids. I would rather not work than teach under current circumstances. And I am lucky, others can't afford not to work and most likely your kids suffer due to their states of mind.

First - the reason why we're bringing home less money this year ( about $120 in my monthly paycheck) is that McDonnell cut the VRS input that the state used to contribute...now employees must contribute a larger share into VRS. This was "offset" by the 2% raise that we were given 2 years ago. So in effect, while we thought we were bringing home a little more 2 years ago was because we would eventually have it taken back to go into VRS.

Second- check out the story on the front of this morning's Style section about McLean HS. Just thought it was interesting, considering that McLean was involved in this thread.

Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We all make less money this year. New tax rules.
> Not unique to teachers.


Interesting what Sharon Bulova said about other county agencies losing money to prop up the school budget. It would be interesting if it were the other way around. When will the idiots in this county start believing that schools can still operate within their budget if they were made to. The scare tactics proliferated by the teachers unions are very self serving.

If I were a teacher I would cease doing anything not considered part of the job. Why should they? We basically are telling them they are suckers to do the extra work and in fact they are. I have kids in elementary school and I appreciate the teachers but I would not blame them for teaching, grading and going home. Period.

Also if I were in FFX Id be looking at every other school system for a job and leave when I got hired in a county were they at least give cost of living increases.

If I were a teacher I would cease doing anything not considered part of the job. Why should they? We basically are telling them they are suckers to do the extra work and in fact they are. I have kids in elementary school and I appreciate the teachers but I would not blame them for teaching, grading and going home. Period.

Also if I were in FFX Id be looking at every other school system for a job and leave when I got hired in a county were they at least give cost of living increases.

If I were a teacher I would cease doing anything not considered part of the job. Why should they? We basically are telling them they are suckers to do the extra work and in fact they are. I have kids in elementary school and I appreciate the teachers but I would not blame them for teaching, grading and going home. Period.

Also if I were in FFX Id be looking at every other school system for a job and leave when I got hired in a county were they at least give cost of living increases.

^and I got it to post 3 times biaaaatches!

Teachers are indeed looking at other places to teach in the area that pay better. I've been teaching for 20 years, have Masters and Ed. S. degrees. If I were teaching in Montgomery Co. MD, i'd make a little more than 19K more this year, If I were teaching in Arlington County, I'd be making almost 21K more. No, the contract time and benefits are not the same, but that's still quite a discrepancy.

Please do leave, they can hire someone at an entry level step and save us tax payers lots of money, and enjoy your 1 1/2 hour commute.

If they cancelled the turf fields and band trips, there would be plenty of money for some raises. Sorry, can't have it all. Dr. Karen "Cowgirl" Garza says we need turf, and lots of it.

Another teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teachers are indeed looking at other places to
> teach in the area that pay better. I've been
> teaching for 20 years, have Masters and Ed. S.
> degrees. If I were teaching in Montgomery Co. MD,
> i'd make a little more than 19K more this year, If
> I were teaching in Arlington County, I'd be making
> almost 21K more. No, the contract time and
> benefits are not the same, but that's still quite
> a discrepancy.

Sorry to tell you this but that's a bad idea for multiple reasons, particularly the fact that you would lose ground with pension benefits (which are still very generous. Also, with a few exceptions, you'd face tougher demographics for teaching in MCPS schools and many Arlington and Alexandria schools (like DC, that's why they pay more). And then there's the commute, assuming you live in or near Ffx Co. I speak from the experiences of 3 teachers who were much, much better off teaching in FCPS. There's good reasons why there's no shortage of applicants for FCPS teaching jobs; I know 2 teachers who hope to land one of these jobs.

"If they cancelled the turf fields and band trips, there would be plenty of money for some raises. Sorry, can't have it all. Dr. Karen "Cowgirl" Garza says we need turf, and lots of it."

Can you give data to back that up? Can't speak to turf fields, but I'm pretty sure the band pays for its own trips. Seems to me that I have given money for fundraisers for turf.

Actually, Fairfax County has no shortage of "tougher demographics". Part of my fascination about this thread that has centered arough McLean, turf fields and band trips is that I teach in the "other Fairfax". Oh yes, there are indeed schools where a majority of students qualify for free/reduced lunch because their family lives below the poverty level, where white students are a fraction of the population, and where english is a second language schoolwide. Check out "school profiles" on the fcps.edu site for schools in Alexandria, Springfield and Falks Church.

reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "If they cancelled the turf fields and band trips,
> there would be plenty of money for some raises.
> Sorry, can't have it all. Dr. Karen "Cowgirl"
> Garza says we need turf, and lots of it."
>
> Can you give data to back that up? Can't speak to
> turf fields, but I'm pretty sure the band pays for
> its own trips. Seems to me that I have given
> money for fundraisers for turf.

He's just a blowhard on an anti-school, anti-turf crusade. The turf debate is a shell game. The county wants the fields and wants to put them at schools. It offers the schools some additional allotment of funds if they use them to fund turf fields. If it wasn't for the turf fields the schools wouldn't be getting the money. The reason the county is doing it that way is they want school boosters to raise part of the cost for constructing the fields. It has worked at some schools, but not at others.

And it is my understanding that bands pay for their own trips, uniforms and a number of other expenses. Music instructor salaries are paid for by the county, so I guess if we killed band, orchestra and chorus a typical high school might have three other teachers.

What's really assblindingly stupid about all of this is the idea that "county budget" = "teacher salary".

It's not. Even. Close. One could cut the rest of the county budget w/the proverbial cleaver, saving taxpayers millions, while increasing FCPS's budget. Face it - schools ought to be the vast majority of any local budget - but not in Fairfax!