I see posts where people trying to bash someone will attack their perceived income. Things like, "Yeah, and I bet you don't make more than $60K a year" or, "I'd expect a comment like that from someone making under $75,000".

So, what is a decent household income in Fairfax County? Thoughts?

Household as in 2 wage earners? $150K minimum.

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Household as in 2 wage earners? $150K minimum.


Pfffft, 150k with two earners? You must be one of the poor folks.

If you are not in a high pay field such as CEO or patent attorney, the easy answer is just compare your pay with what a federal employee makes. Traditionally fed employees made less than the private sector, though your mileage may vary.

Most jobs around here are at least a GS-13 entry level. In the Northern VA, Washington, Baltimore area the federal pay for regular average type work is:
GS-13: $89,033 - $115,742
GS-14: $105,211 - $136,771
GS-15: $128,758 - $$155,500

The SES pay is higher still. There has not been a pay raise in a couple years so employees have instead been getting bumped to higher step levels within each grade or to a higher grade. So in some agencies you will see a lot of people clustered at the higher end of these grades.

Basically, if you are an entry, mid, or senior-level worker making less than 80% of the GS 13, 14, or 15 max pay, you are behind the curve.

That would be:
0 - 2 yrs = ~$93,000
5 - 7 yrs = ~$109,416
10 + yrs = ~$124,400

The 80% of federal pay is just a conservative estimate, and some would argue it should be 110% or 120%. Either way, $75,000 is not good. This is all for an individual, not a household.

A household is a household. It doesn't matter whether there is one wage earner (single, married, kids, etc) or twenty. So what is decent money in FFX Co for a household? I'd say $200K. If you're single making that or more, you're living large. If you married and have kids, you can afford a good house in a nice neighborhood, decent vacations, nice cars and have a little left over for savings if you're pulling down $200K or more. Less than $100K and you're starting to get into middle or lower middle class.

easy anser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are not in a high pay field such as CEO or
> patent attorney, the easy answer is just compare
> your pay with what a federal employee makes.
> Traditionally fed employees made less than the
> private sector, though your mileage may vary.
>
> Most jobs around here are at least a GS-13 entry
> level. In the Northern VA, Washington, Baltimore
> area the federal pay for regular average type work
> is:
> GS-13: $89,033 - $115,742
> GS-14: $105,211 - $136,771
> GS-15: $128,758 - $$155,500
>
> The SES pay is higher still. There has not been a
> pay raise in a couple years so employees have
> instead been getting bumped to higher step levels
> within each grade or to a higher grade. So in
> some agencies you will see a lot of people
> clustered at the higher end of these grades.
>
> Basically, if you are an entry, mid, or
> senior-level worker making less than 80% of the GS
> 13, 14, or 15 max pay, you are behind the curve.
>
> That would be:
> 0 - 2 yrs = ~$93,000
> 5 - 7 yrs = ~$109,416
> 10 + yrs = ~$124,400
>
> The 80% of federal pay is just a conservative
> estimate, and some would argue it should be 110%
> or 120%. Either way, $75,000 is not good. This
> is all for an individual, not a household.


Well, looks like i'm fucked.

There's a lot of wrong information in "easy anser"s post.

GS 13-15 account for less than 20% of the Federal workforce, though the percentage in this area probably is considerably higher.

I'd question the idea of comparing my salary to theirs to decide if I was "doing okay", anyway.

The best thing you can do is price your needs, and see if your salary meets them with at least 10-20% to spare.

A single person can do just fine on $50-75k. They won't be dining at restaraunts every night, or living alone in a 2,000 sq.ft. single family home, but they can be perfectly comfortable, just the same. I could easily point to families of four in this area that live on less than that.

So don't look at your salary as a competition. Look at it in the context of your own wants and needs.

easy anser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are not in a high pay field such as CEO or
> patent attorney, the easy answer is just compare
> your pay with what a federal employee makes.
> Traditionally fed employees made less than the
> private sector, though your mileage may vary.
>
> Most jobs around here are at least a GS-13 entry
> level. In the Northern VA, Washington, Baltimore
> area the federal pay for regular average type work
> is:
> GS-13: $89,033 - $115,742
> GS-14: $105,211 - $136,771
> GS-15: $128,758 - $$155,500
>
> The SES pay is higher still. There has not been a
> pay raise in a couple years so employees have
> instead been getting bumped to higher step levels
> within each grade or to a higher grade. So in
> some agencies you will see a lot of people
> clustered at the higher end of these grades.
>
> Basically, if you are an entry, mid, or
> senior-level worker making less than 80% of the GS
> 13, 14, or 15 max pay, you are behind the curve.
>
> That would be:
> 0 - 2 yrs = ~$93,000
> 5 - 7 yrs = ~$109,416
> 10 + yrs = ~$124,400
>
> The 80% of federal pay is just a conservative
> estimate, and some would argue it should be 110%
> or 120%. Either way, $75,000 is not good. This
> is all for an individual, not a household.


Excellent analysis - right on the money.

> ...A single person can do just fine on $50-75k. They won't be
> dining at restaraunts every night, or living alone in a 2,000 sq.ft.
> single family home, but they can be perfectly comfortable, just the same...

My family could easily survive (WITH savings as well) with a $60k/month post-tax income.

There is merit to living in the same house for more than 3 years and not buying new cars until...you know...a new car is necessary...

Hi Jinx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A household is a household. It doesn't matter
> whether there is one wage earner (single, married,
> kids, etc) or twenty. So what is decent money in
> FFX Co for a household? I'd say $200K. If you're
> single making that or more, you're living large.
> If you married and have kids, you can afford a
> good house in a nice neighborhood, decent
> vacations, nice cars and have a little left over
> for savings if you're pulling down $200K or more.
> Less than $100K and you're starting to get into
> middle or lower middle class.

Hey, dumbass, the point was being made for a single wage earner, not a household.

Don't respond and argue the point because you'll only be confirming that you're a fucking idiot.

I'm in my thirties, divorced, making around $190,000 and I have hard time getting by in FFX. Yes, Boo hoo, I know. No alimony, child support is very reasonable. Yes, I eat out all the time, but I drive an affordable German car. This county is expensive. Taxes and everything just kill you. I want to send my kids to private school, but I don't make enough right now.

Olde Farte, II Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > ...A single person can do just fine on $50-75k.
> They won't be
> > dining at restaraunts every night, or living
> alone in a 2,000 sq.ft.
> > single family home, but they can be perfectly
> comfortable, just the same...
>
> My family could easily survive (WITH savings as
> well) with a $60k/month post-tax income.
>
> There is merit to living in the same house for
> more than 3 years and not buying new cars
> until...you know...a new car is necessary...

Well I guess so........$60K/month is a yearly salary of $720,000.00!

Olde Farte, II Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > ...A single person can do just fine on $50-75k.
> They won't be
> > dining at restaraunts every night, or living
> alone in a 2,000 sq.ft.
> > single family home, but they can be perfectly
> comfortable, just the same...
>
> My family could easily survive (WITH savings as
> well) with a $60k/month post-tax income.
>
> There is merit to living in the same house for
> more than 3 years and not buying new cars
> until...you know...a new car is necessary...

I think most families would find it pretty easy to get by on $60,000 a month!
It seems that people in this county are either uber wealthy, or their kids are qualifying for free/reduced lunches in the schools....

Guyhjhg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm in my thirties, divorced, making around
> $190,000 and I have hard time getting by in FFX.
> Yes, Boo hoo, I know. No alimony, child support
> is very reasonable. Yes, I eat out all the time,
> but I drive an affordable German car. This county
> is expensive. Taxes and everything just kill you.
> I want to send my kids to private school, but I
> don't make enough right now.


You are gay! and faggot!!

Guyhjhg, what kind of jobs pay $190,000?

Looking at it competitively is just a way to estimate if you are getting fairly compensated. Since there are so many federal workers it makes sense to use them as a yardstick. I'm sure there are more higher GS scale people in Fairfax County, but this is the area in question.

I am single, get $120k gross and only make $75k post tax etc. I am barely squeeking by, not even saving much. The federal pay sounds a little better; I am looking on USAJobs now.

I think if you are below 62K you qualify for rental assistance and other public assistance in FFX. That should tell you all need to know.

poor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guyhjhg, what kind of jobs pay $190,000?
>
> Looking at it competitively is just a way to
> estimate if you are getting fairly compensated.
> Since there are so many federal workers it makes
> sense to use them as a yardstick. I'm sure there
> are more higher GS scale people in Fairfax County,
> but this is the area in question.
>
> I am single, get $120k gross and only make $75k
> post tax etc. I am barely squeeking by, not even
> saving much. The federal pay sounds a little
> better; I am looking on USAJobs now.


190k is achieved by Sr. Level IT work, having a niche qualification/skillset with education/certifications/experience to back it.

I'm VERY close to 190k myself and also in my 30's. Same thing, Sr. Level IT work (contractor)

Mac2U Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think if you are below 62K you qualify for
> rental assistance and other public assistance in
> FFX. That should tell you all need to know


Last I checked for a single person it was $43,500..or maybe $44,500.
The rent's too damn high.

I have not seen that kind of money for sr. level IT work. Any particular skills that would earn that? Or is it due to the size of the contractor? In fact according to the surveys I've seen it looks like $150 is about the top unless it is a CIO or other management responsibility.

A lot of the answer to 'how much is enough' depends on your housing needs. Most people with kids want to own their own house in a decent neighborhood. That will cost at least 500K around here - probably more. If you buy now (with a modest down payment), you will have a huge mortgage. If you bought 20 years ago, your purchase price was about half what it is now. It makes a big difference.

Most people around here are terribly spoiled. They don't understand the difference between needs and wants, and they don't want for much - probably at the expense of savings. The rest of the country does not live like this. The rest of the world would be horrified at our extravagance.

poor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have not seen that kind of money for sr. level
> IT work.

That's because the guys who are posting actual numbers are more like freaking frill-necked lizards.

poor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have not seen that kind of money for sr. level
> IT work. Any particular skills that would earn
> that? Or is it due to the size of the contractor?
> In fact according to the surveys I've seen it
> looks like $150 is about the top unless it is a
> CIO or other management responsibility.

Online surveys don't account for rare skill sets in cutting edge technology and high level clearances.

FYI, all Sr Level IT positions carry some type of Management responsibility.

poor is right, $150k is about tops for a senior level IT position. You have to be in an executive track for IT to go much higher than that. Some specialty positions, tech fellowships, etc. might pay more but that would not be standard.

A household income of $160k (two incomes with kids) is comfortable in the Chantilly area. Different parts of the county are more expensive (Langley, Great Falls) or less expensive (Kingstowne).

Frill-neckers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> poor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have not seen that kind of money for sr.
> level
> > IT work.
>
> That's because the guys who are posting actual
> numbers are more like freaking frill-necked
> lizards.

Please explain. I would wear neck frills if it pays $190k or even $170k. What kind of work/skills, and what type of contractors, large, medium, niche, or what?

It almost goes without saying that nearly everybody around here has a high-level clearance. What are these mysterious high level jobs paying over $150k? I have been hard pressed to see even close to that -- but there are tons of low-ball offers. And actually in my observations most of the management job holders seem to have somewhat less than cutting edge technical skills.

Sr Developer / Sr Software Architect - 145-160k
Medical Sales - 130-250k
Software Sales - 120-250k
IT Program Manager - 145-160k


And then there are the lawyers (disgusting these people should die)

First Year Associate - 120-145k
Partner Attorney - 300-800k

Sales people = shit.
I would rather eat noodles all week than be labeled in sales..Lowest form of scum.

poor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guyhjhg, what kind of jobs pay $190,000?
>
> Looking at it competitively is just a way to
> estimate if you are getting fairly compensated.
> Since there are so many federal workers it makes
> sense to use them as a yardstick. I'm sure there
> are more higher GS scale people in Fairfax County,
> but this is the area in question.
>
> I am single, get $120k gross and only make $75k
> post tax etc. I am barely squeeking by, not even
> saving much. The federal pay sounds a little
> better; I am looking on USAJobs now.

I have a govt job (with a pension), but we are not GS. We are on Bands. The top band at my agency is $280,000+ easy. Exactly 40 hour weeks and no stupid IT work and just a public trust bankground check clearance (if that's even considered a clearance).

Above 150k info Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sr Developer / Sr Software Architect - 145-160k
> Medical Sales - 130-250k
> Software Sales - 120-250k
> IT Program Manager - 145-160k
>
>
> And then there are the lawyers (disgusting these
> people should die)
>
> First Year Associate - 120-145k
> Partner Attorney - 300-800k

Thanks. About $150k or less commonly $160k is the highest I have seen in IT, apart from commission sales. Software sales might be an option but it is very unpredictable. Screw it I should just give up and go back to law school...

Hi Jinx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you married and have kids, you can afford a
> good house in a nice neighborhood, decent
> vacations, nice cars and have a little left over
> for savings if you're pulling down $200K or more.
> Less than $100K and you're starting to get into
> middle or lower middle class.

We are a family of three and my DW and I have a combined gross income of about $147k. We have a good house in a nice neighborhood, but it has taken us 20 years to get here. It didn't happen overnight.

@tgbwc: What is DW? Do you mean wife? Please then just say wife.

$147k for two incomes (or three, depending on how old your child is), after 20 years, is not much money in this area. Considering that, I salute you for sticking it out and working to provide for your family. I know people (mostly teachers and professors) who live outside New York City, also a high cost of living area, and don't make much money but find creative ways to make it stretch. Around here, there are unavoidable expenses like gas, and even utilities aren't cheap; but I think people spend unnecessarily on things they think they need but don't, like overly large houses, fancy cell phone plans, and going out to eat all the time.

Ghghj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> poor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guyhjhg, what kind of jobs pay $190,000?
> >
> > Looking at it competitively is just a way to
> > estimate if you are getting fairly compensated.
>
> > Since there are so many federal workers it
> makes
> > sense to use them as a yardstick. I'm sure
> there
> > are more higher GS scale people in Fairfax
> County,
> > but this is the area in question.
> >
> > I am single, get $120k gross and only make $75k
> > post tax etc. I am barely squeeking by, not
> even
> > saving much. The federal pay sounds a little
> > better; I am looking on USAJobs now.
>
> I have a govt job (with a pension), but we are not
> GS. We are on Bands. The top band at my agency
> is $280,000+ easy. Exactly 40 hour weeks and no
> stupid IT work and just a public trust bankground
> check clearance (if that's even considered a
> clearance).


Bullshit.

Ghghj Wrote:
> I have a govt job (with a pension), but we are not
> GS. We are on Bands. The top band at my agency
> is $280,000+ easy. Exactly 40 hour weeks and no
> stupid IT work and just a public trust bankground
> check clearance (if that's even considered a
> clearance).


Bullshit.

As a matter of federal law, the only people in the government earning that kind of money are medical professionals and certain othe professionals in quasi-government entities such as the SEC or FDIC.

Wario Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @tgbwc: What is DW? Do you mean wife? Please then
> just say wife.
>
> $147k for two incomes (or three, depending on how
> old your child is), after 20 years, is not much
> money in this area. Considering that, I salute you
> for sticking it out and working to provide for
> your family. I know people (mostly teachers and
> professors) who live outside New York City, also a
> high cost of living area, and don't make much
> money but find creative ways to make it stretch.
> Around here, there are unavoidable expenses like
> gas, and even utilities aren't cheap; but I think
> people spend unnecessarily on things they think
> they need but don't, like overly large houses,
> fancy cell phone plans, and going out to eat all
> the time.

Yes. Wife. Sorry about that.
It's not a lot of money for this area, I agree. We both work for FCPS (the overpaid teachers we so often read about). No complaints here. We have gone from an apartment, to buying a 2 bedroom condo, to a house and commuting, and now an older home with short commutes. We prioritize, budget, and it works.

Lying tool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > I have a govt job (with a pension), but we are
> not
> > GS. We are on Bands. The top band at my
> agency
> > is $280,000+ easy. Exactly 40 hour weeks and
> no
> > stupid IT work and just a public trust
> bankground
> > check clearance (if that's even considered a
> > clearance).
>
>
> Bullshit.

Yeah there are only a few agencies that have bands. Since it is public trust, not IT, it is not in IC or DHS. That leaves FAA, IRS, GAO, NIST, and maybe others? Could be some cushy 40-hr per week job at NIST that requires a PhD?

I think decent money is anything about $50,000/year. I make about $47,000 a year and get by just fine in Fairfax.

native fairfax guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think decent money is anything about
> $50,000/year. I make about $47,000 a year and get
> by just fine in Fairfax.


No way. How much do you pay for rent/mortgage? For most people $47k before taxes, insurance, 401k would not cover housing and utilities. Sure, it is probably possible to survive on $25,000 or less, if you share housing with others, eat very cheap (or free), and don't incur any expenses. But that is a completely different question.

Depending on your housing expense, decent money is more like $200k for a household.

poor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It almost goes without saying that nearly
> everybody around here has a high-level clearance.
> What are these mysterious high level jobs paying
> over $150k? I have been hard pressed to see even
> close to that -- but there are tons of low-ball
> offers. And actually in my observations most of
> the management job holders seem to have somewhat
> less than cutting edge technical skills.

It took me a couple of months to complete a job search. I noticed that, this time around, there were many low-ball offers. Several offers were less than what I was making a dozen years ago, with a dozen fewer years of experience, and with only a secret clearance. I'm convinced that salaries are on the decline in general, but these fools are jumping on the bandwagon and are beating the horse to death.

I think the jobs paying over $150k require someone to be at or near the top of the game in clearances (SCI, and likely a polygraph), years of experience (15+), education (Masters or higher), and maybe certifications. Certifications have lost value now that everybody has shown up for the gold rush.

The law of supply and demand applies perfectly here. If you have abilities/talent/clearances that they need and few others have, scoring high is very possible. If you're fighting for jobs with MCSEs and Security+ people, the glut in supply will drive your salary down.

The whole concept of "decent income" in any one place is extremely subjective. How many people are you supporting? What are your standards for housing, automobiles, and general lifestyle? For every person that thinks they make decent money, someone in a different lifestyle can't imagine having that much income - while someone else can't understand how you survive that way. I have seen many people increase their income by $10k only to increase their lifestyle cost by 15%.

I make 58k a year, own a 2,000 sqft home (inside the beltway), and get by just fine in Fairfax. How often are you paying for hookers and blow if you are barely squeezing by with 190k? Why are you spending that much?


Mortgage - $1500(120k down, borrowing 260k @3.15%, bought in 2010), Commuting costs - $400, Food/personal goods - $1000 = $2900~ a month, give or take a couple hundred. My annual cost of living, is right around 35k. Now since your a high roller we will just double or triple all my expenses, you should still be living comfortably and not squeezing by.

Sounds like the German cars and the Mcmansions are the things that are making it hard for you guys. Do you really need that 5,000 sqft cookie cutter house sitting on a 8,000 sqft lot? The HELOC you took out in 06 for the Porsche wasn't probably wasn't such a good idea either.

*Zelinsky* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> easy anser Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you are not in a high pay field such as CEO
> or
> > patent attorney, the easy answer is just
> compare
> > your pay with what a federal employee makes.
> > Traditionally fed employees made less than the
> > private sector, though your mileage may vary.
> >
> > Most jobs around here are at least a GS-13
> entry
> > level. In the Northern VA, Washington,
> Baltimore
> > area the federal pay for regular average type
> work
> > is:
> > GS-13: $89,033 - $115,742
> > GS-14: $105,211 - $136,771
> > GS-15: $128,758 - $$155,500
> >
> > The SES pay is higher still. There has not been
> a
> > pay raise in a couple years so employees have
> > instead been getting bumped to higher step
> levels
> > within each grade or to a higher grade. So in
> > some agencies you will see a lot of people
> > clustered at the higher end of these grades.
> >
> > Basically, if you are an entry, mid, or
> > senior-level worker making less than 80% of the
> GS
> > 13, 14, or 15 max pay, you are behind the
> curve.
> >
> > That would be:
> > 0 - 2 yrs = ~$93,000
> > 5 - 7 yrs = ~$109,416
> > 10 + yrs = ~$124,400
> >
> > The 80% of federal pay is just a conservative
> > estimate, and some would argue it should be
> 110%
> > or 120%. Either way, $75,000 is not good.
> This
> > is all for an individual, not a household.
>
>
> Excellent analysis - right on the money.

Except for the basic premise that GS-13 is the entry level for most Govt. jobs, which is more like GS-5/7/9. But aside from a faulty basic premise...ohh, wait, it can't be right on the money with a faulty basic premise

poor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Above 150k info Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sr Developer / Sr Software Architect - 145-160k
> > Medical Sales - 130-250k
> > Software Sales - 120-250k
> > IT Program Manager - 145-160k
> >
> >
> > And then there are the lawyers (disgusting
> these
> > people should die)
> >
> > First Year Associate - 120-145k
> > Partner Attorney - 300-800k
>
> Thanks. About $150k or less commonly $160k is the
> highest I have seen in IT, apart from commission
> sales. Software sales might be an option but it
> is very unpredictable. Screw it I should just
> give up and go back to law school...

Bad idea--go back to law school and take on $150K-$225K in debt to cover tuition, etc., and enter a market that is so glutted that you will be competing against attorneys with many years of experience to get a GS-9 in the Government, or resort to ambulance chasing.

I have structured my financial affairs so that I have less than $8,000 per year income. Two axioms: ABCD and "if you can't hold it you don't own it."

%%%%%%%%%%%

I have free and clear assets between $1.5 and 5.0 MM. And no debt.

Only if you are a wage slave (and quite likely, also a debt serf) is income relevant.

Not to rub it in but I'd choose my financial picture over yours any day.

ASsets minus liabilities is what matters. Can you pay your bills with your own money? Save if not invest? And still have -- your own money -- to enjoy life?

I don't care what your income is if nine-tenths of it goes to service debt.

A point of view you might consider, attorneys and physicians are well educated, well-paid white collar working class.

If the purchasing power across the population is diminishing, and it is, how will their clients afford to pay them? I don't think being paid in chickens is what they have in mind.

Final thought: what happens to YOUR standard of living when the countries that make everything we buy stop accepting U$D in payment? Demand to be paid in their own currency or in gold. That is already happening. Your standard of living plummets and won't be coming back. Are you ready for that?

ABCD = anything bernanke can't destroy

You'reFullOfShit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ghghj Wrote:
> > I have a govt job (with a pension), but we are
> not
> > GS. We are on Bands. The top band at my
> agency
> > is $280,000+ easy. Exactly 40 hour weeks and
> no
> > stupid IT work and just a public trust
> bankground
> > check clearance (if that's even considered a
> > clearance).
>
>
> Bullshit.
>
> As a matter of federal law, the only people in the
> government earning that kind of money are medical
> professionals and certain othe professionals in
> quasi-government entities such as the SEC or FDIC.

Exactly, I'm one of those people at those places. Okay, you're right, I was bullshitting a little about the "exactly 40 hour weeks". The real number is 20% lower (except for me). Ever try contacting a co-worker on their WAH day?? What a joke.

your cheap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> native fairfax guy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think decent money is anything about
> > $50,000/year. I make about $47,000 a year and
> get
> > by just fine in Fairfax.
>
>
> No way. How much do you pay for rent/mortgage?
> For most people $47k before taxes, insurance, 401k
> would not cover housing and utilities. Sure, it
> is probably possible to survive on $25,000 or
> less, if you share housing with others, eat very
> cheap (or free), and don't incur any expenses.
> But that is a completely different question.
>

I work with people who do fine making between $45-50k a year. It's not so hard to believe. Some of them have a roommate.

When I was single, I was making ~$42k/year (as entry level GS employee, so yes...that other guy's logic is seriously flawed if he thinks "entry level" is a GS13).

Had no problem whatsoever with living by myself in Vienna...Definitely didn't need $100k+ to do it!

1 Year later, wife and I make a combined $90k and just bought a $450k+ house.

It absolutely boggles my mind when people say they can't live on less than $200k/year...

I would think that under 80k for a single person would be poverty level for Fairfax county. It is always kind of sad seeing a grown, educated man having to live in a townhouse community but that is the reality of the situation around here if you do not want a 1+ hour commute.
Decent money around here is 150k for a single person 200k for a couple and 250k+ for a family.

gmu grad99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would think that under 80k for a single person
> would be poverty level for Fairfax county. It is
> always kind of sad seeing a grown, educated man
> having to live in a townhouse community but that
> is the reality of the situation around here if you
> do not want a 1+ hour commute.
> Decent money around here is 150k for a single
> person 200k for a couple and 250k+ for a family.


yeah, If you're nigga rich. fucking idiot.

gmu grad99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would think that under 80k for a single person
> would be poverty level for Fairfax county. It is
> always kind of sad seeing a grown, educated man
> having to live in a townhouse community but that
> is the reality of the situation around here if you
> do not want a 1+ hour commute.
> Decent money around here is 150k for a single
> person 200k for a couple and 250k+ for a family.

Would you believe that some people LIKE TH living? No yard (to speak of) to maintain, little sidewalk to keep clear of the 4 inches of snow we get each year, they can close off the levels they aren't using--no need to heat a basement rec room if you live on the main floor only!

Well Im glad to see that everyone has a clearance, makes 150K, complains about it, and thinks that everyone else is poor. Get back to work you pricks, since thats all that matters around here. PS- someones probably inside your wife right now.

The answer is, it depends. How many kids do you have? How much credit card debt do you have? Student loans? Car payments? Mortgage?

It's all about living within your means. My wife and I (we're 30) make over 200k combined, but we have kids (daycare is a bitch), plus a car payment, plus my wife's debt from before we got married. I'm not complaining, because these are the decisions we have made. But 200k is not so much from my POV. However, if we didn't have debt to worry about paying down every month, the 200k would be comfy.

choices Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gmu grad99 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I would think that under 80k for a single
> person
> > would be poverty level for Fairfax county. It
> is
> > always kind of sad seeing a grown, educated man
> > having to live in a townhouse community but
> that
> > is the reality of the situation around here if
> you
> > do not want a 1+ hour commute.
> > Decent money around here is 150k for a single
> > person 200k for a couple and 250k+ for a
> family.
>
> Would you believe that some people LIKE TH living?
> No yard (to speak of) to maintain, little
> sidewalk to keep clear of the 4 inches of snow we
> get each year, they can close off the levels they
> aren't using--no need to heat a basement rec room
> if you live on the main floor only!


I did the town home thing a couple of times. Even the so-called upscale town home communities suck. They are noisy, lack privacy and parking wars and petty crime are a constant issue. Life is too short for that crap.

gury Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well Im glad to see that everyone has a clearance,
> makes 150K, complains about it, and thinks that
> everyone else is poor. Get back to work you
> pricks, since thats all that matters around here.
> PS- someones probably inside your wife right now.


Probably not - because my wife and I both work from home with no commute and each of us make over 150k, for a household income of 300k+.

While I rake in the dough and have no commute, you can go back to eating a dick and standing in line for Gov handouts.

Uncle Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> *Zelinsky* Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > easy anser Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If you are not in a high pay field such as
> CEO
> > or
> > > patent attorney, the easy answer is just
> > compare
> > > your pay with what a federal employee makes.
> > > Traditionally fed employees made less than
> the
> > > private sector, though your mileage may vary.
> > >
> > > Most jobs around here are at least a GS-13
> > entry
> > > level. In the Northern VA, Washington,
> > Baltimore
> > > area the federal pay for regular average type
> > work
> > > is:
> > > GS-13: $89,033 - $115,742
> > > GS-14: $105,211 - $136,771
> > > GS-15: $128,758 - $$155,500
> > >
> > > The SES pay is higher still. There has not
> been
> > a
> > > pay raise in a couple years so employees have
> > > instead been getting bumped to higher step
> > levels
> > > within each grade or to a higher grade. So
> in
> > > some agencies you will see a lot of people
> > > clustered at the higher end of these grades.
> > >
> > > Basically, if you are an entry, mid, or
> > > senior-level worker making less than 80% of
> the
> > GS
> > > 13, 14, or 15 max pay, you are behind the
> > curve.
> > >
> > > That would be:
> > > 0 - 2 yrs = ~$93,000
> > > 5 - 7 yrs = ~$109,416
> > > 10 + yrs = ~$124,400
> > >
> > > The 80% of federal pay is just a conservative
> > > estimate, and some would argue it should be
> > 110%
> > > or 120%. Either way, $75,000 is not good.
> > This
> > > is all for an individual, not a household.
> >
> >
> > Excellent analysis - right on the money.
>
> Except for the basic premise that GS-13 is the
> entry level for most Govt. jobs, which is more
> like GS-5/7/9. But aside from a faulty basic
> premise...ohh, wait, it can't be right on the
> money with a faulty basic premise


It's not faulty. You missed the part about being in Fairfax County. For a high-school diploma holder in Montana, a GS-5 is entry level. This is not Montana, nor even Prince George's. I have personally never encountered any GS-5 living in Fairfax County. In fact I'm not even sure if I ever meet any GS-5 employees (or any under GS-9) at the agencies I have worked.

For a Fairfax County resident a GS-13 is an entry level or low level position, for someone with military or less than 2 years of experience and master's degree or a good quality undergrad education.

LOLOLOLzzz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gury Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well Im glad to see that everyone has a
> clearance,
> > makes 150K, complains about it, and thinks that
> > everyone else is poor. Get back to work you
> > pricks, since thats all that matters around
> here.
> > PS- someones probably inside your wife right
> now.
>
>
> Probably not - because my wife and I both work
> from home with no commute and each of us make over
> 150k, for a household income of 300k+.
>
> While I rake in the dough and have no commute, you
> can go back to eating a dick and standing in line
> for Gov handouts.


You don't make that much. why do you lie?

Want to go back to the 150k glass ceiling thing

Its very true

Any of the defense conractors/consultants/IT shops/Gov will pay you up to 150k realiatviely easily

You work 10 years 22-32 you can hit that

Now as a 32 year old I dont see a path anymore

There are about 10 of us fighting for 2 spots to make it to the next level and its complete bs.

Im not complaining 150k is plenty for me. Just curious about what it takes to break through the Fairfax glass ceiling.

I need about 2.5k to live on 1k for rent and 1.5k for everything else the rest I am just investing and saving. You can live around here on 50-60k

This thread just confirms the fact that Gubment employees are grossly overpaid hacks.

Comparing to the feds you have to factor in that their benefits are worth $50-100K on top of a regular salary.

The best rule in this area is that you should be making double your age in your 20s, triple your age in your 30s, and quadruple your age in your 40s. At that point you top out unless you own your own company.

comparer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Comparing to the feds you have to factor in that
> their benefits are worth $50-100K on top of a
> regular salary.
>
> The best rule in this area is that you should be
> making double your age in your 20s, triple your
> age in your 30s, and quadruple your age in your
> 40s. At that point you top out unless you own
> your own company.

There are plenty of exceptions to that "rule".

At age 22, I made $22.5k.
Now at 42, I make $77k.

I'm set to make about $176K this year. I'm 38. Is it bad that I feel like I'm not making shit? I need to make about $350K to afford to live in the neighborhood I want to live in.

tgbwc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> comparer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Comparing to the feds you have to factor in
> that
> > their benefits are worth $50-100K on top of a
> > regular salary.
> >
> > The best rule in this area is that you should
> be
> > making double your age in your 20s, triple your
> > age in your 30s, and quadruple your age in your
> > 40s. At that point you top out unless you own
> > your own company.
>
> There are plenty of exceptions to that "rule".
>
> At age 22, I made $22.5k.
> Now at 42, I make $77k.


You are not an exception, you are a loser.

losser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tgbwc Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > comparer Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Comparing to the feds you have to factor in
> > that
> > > their benefits are worth $50-100K on top of a
> > > regular salary.
> > >
> > > The best rule in this area is that you should
> > be
> > > making double your age in your 20s, triple
> your
> > > age in your 30s, and quadruple your age in
> your
> > > 40s. At that point you top out unless you
> own
> > > your own company.
> >
> > There are plenty of exceptions to that "rule".
> >
> > At age 22, I made $22.5k.
> > Now at 42, I make $77k.
>
>
> You are not an exception, you are a loser.

Of course I disagree with being a loser. It's not the highest pay, but there are other perks. The pay is for 39 weeks of work.

the glass ceiling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Want to go back to the 150k glass ceiling thing
>
> Its very true
>
> Any of the defense conractors/consultants/IT
> shops/Gov will pay you up to 150k realiatviely
> easily
>
> You work 10 years 22-32 you can hit that
>
> Now as a 32 year old I dont see a path anymore
>
> There are about 10 of us fighting for 2 spots to
> make it to the next level and its complete bs.
>
> Im not complaining 150k is plenty for me. Just
> curious about what it takes to break through the
> Fairfax glass ceiling.
>
> I need about 2.5k to live on 1k for rent and 1.5k
> for everything else the rest I am just investing
> and saving. You can live around here on 50-60k

You think that's bad. Wait till your forties when you become obsolete and the offers dry up.

Save Now Wrote:
-----
>
> You think that's bad. Wait till your forties when
> you become obsolete and the offers dry up.


Best advice given on this subject. I was fucking kicking ass on a software program making good money, that shit went away, I'm still able to pay the bills, but I was lucky. And yes, you can get fucked hard if you are not careful in your 40's.
Government people should be ok because they don't do shit anway.

drag getting old Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Save Now Wrote:
> -----
>
> Best advice given on this subject. I was fucking
> kicking ass on a software program making good
> money, that shit went away, I'm still able to pay
> the bills, but I was lucky. And yes, you can get
> fucked hard if you are not careful in your 40's.
> Government people should be ok because they don't
> do shit anway.

There's an economic downturn every eight to ten years. Each downturn is where the shit goes away and people get fucked hard. I have cruised through three of them so far, but I have no doubt the hardest one so far is coming in 2018 or so. (the current mess seems like it is dragging on longer) I haven't needed luck so far, but I might need it next time.

I have a bro-in-law that got fucked in the early 90s recession, the dotcom bust, and the current recession/depression. He's middle management. Stay the fuck away from middle management. Remember Office Space? "Well look, I already told you! I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to! I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?"

The way I see it - you don't get fucked because just because you're in your 40s. You get fucked at any age if you stop learning, growing, trying, busting your ass. and maintaining good career contracts.

I won't disclose too much about my career choices here. Generally speaking, I worked hard to master one aspect of IT and kept leveraging that to learn other aspects. One example would be starting out working on desktop PCs, then servers, then storage, then security, then networking, then databases, then programming. Don't just know about this stuff - have experience - earn certifications - take accredited classes. The best part is doing our job really well and being able to help (or call bullshit) on the DBAs or network engineers that are supporting your project.

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread just confirms the fact that Gubment
> employees are grossly overpaid hacks.


Classic case of penis envy.

By the way, GS-13 is entry level. If you're packing a PhD.

"So, what is a decent household income in Fairfax County? Thoughts?"

I've lived on my own here for 15 years. You can survive comfortably on $30-40k if single, with no debts, and don't mind living with other people. The breaking point is about $50-60k. So $75k is about average or "decent"

Some of the answers provided to this post are cause for greater concern about this area than the $$$.

I only make 250k a year, I am struggling to pay the bills, Fairfax is so expensive. You need to make at least 600k a year to live comfortably around here.

600k a year?! Maybe if you wanna live on a diet of cup-o- noodles and drive some old beater around town. To live comfortably in Fairfax you need at least $950,000.

150k istops for IT for the most part.
As an independent consultant you can get up to 95-100 an hour.
These gigs are usually short term - 6 months to a year. No benefits or paid vacation, in addition to being taxed 15% of income to Social Security.

Government Contractor billing rates to the govt are typically 150-175 if they want to remain competitive. So not seeing how anyone could make > 150k with benefits and remain profitable to their firm.

80000 last year delivering mail. 50 hour work weeks and lots of walking but a decent job.

Actually I make a decent living without any gov handouts. No, I do not make the 150 that your arrogant fat ass makes, and I'm ok with it. My point is that there is more to life than "raking in the dough", and people like yourself get a false sense of greatness from it. Your douchey post proves that your ego is out of wack and you suck at life, so thanks for helping me prove my point.

Congratulations on the awesome career, but being such a huge asshole is far worse than making < 150 and / or having to commute, neither of which are as big a deal as you think. Maybe some time outside of the house or away from the wife would help, you sheltered prick!

Me: GS 14 Step 8
Girlfriend: GS 14 Step 5

Early 40's to late 30's both of us + no kids + living in Fairfax = BANK MONEY!!!!

You can't get rich working for the government, but you can get comfortable if you are intelligent, have some people skills, and are willing to work to establish and maintain an actual expertise.

These days I do have to laugh of course at all the whizbang buffoons who used to chide ten years ago that you couldn't make any real money in the public sector, but who now have to go around whining that government workers are overpaid. This is what myopic clownbot-losers look like!

mail man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 80000 last year delivering mail. 50 hour work
> weeks and lots of walking but a decent job.

Isnt the Post Office broke?

Oh deary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 600k a year?! Maybe if you wanna live on a diet of
> cup-o- noodles and drive some old beater around
> town. To live comfortably in Fairfax you need at
> least $950,000.


I'm amazed at how people can stretch a buck. A wife and two kids - you need over $1M/year in Fairfax just to get by.

living large Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Me: GS 14 Step 8
> Girlfriend: GS 14 Step 5
>
> Early 40's to late 30's both of us + no kids +
> living in Fairfax = BANK MONEY!!!!


Damn, not bad!!! Almost 250K a year and no kids. You got to be having some serious $$$$ in your pockets. Guess the furloughs won't be affecting you too hard.

LowKee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "So, what is a decent household income in Fairfax
> County? Thoughts?"
>
> I've lived on my own here for 15 years. You can
> survive comfortably on $30-40k if single, with no
> debts, and don't mind living with other people.
> The breaking point is about $50-60k. So $75k is
> about average or "decent"
>
> Some of the answers provided to this post are
> cause for greater concern about this area than the
> $$$.

i concur. there are plenty of options in Fairfax County within these ranges that would sustain a person without resorting to "ghetto" living. $75k is decent living in Fairfax County, so long as there are no large debts owed. a family of four, with two wage earners at $75k, can afford a single-family home in a nice neighborhood in a good school district. that's been my experience anyhow.

let's break down some monthly expenses for a single person, no kids:

eating at the palm every night of the week: 3000/mo
cocaine habit: 2000/mo
payments on your leased 7 series bmw: 800/mo
mortgage for 5000/sqft, 5 br, 5 ba house in langley: $7000/mo
walking around money: 3000/mo (sometimes you just need to spend $100 every single day on shit)

total: $189,600

so yeah, you're gonna be hard pressed to make $190,000 work in this area. have a kid and you might have to cut back on the cocaine. fuck kids.

A lot of these numbers being thrown around here are ridiculous or your standard of "decent" is very high.
I'm single, have a 3 bedroom condo in FFx, 2006 Acura (not great by any means, but not bad), can take several trips a year, pretty much can do whatever I want. I make about 70k now, but was doing ok making a little more than 50k. And if you're single and still young, might as well get a roommate, saves you even more money.
The problems start once you start having kids. Daycare costs alone will kick your ass.

guest555 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lot of these numbers being thrown around here
> are ridiculous or your standard of "decent" is
> very high.
> I'm single, have a 3 bedroom condo in FFx, 2006
> Acura (not great by any means, but not bad), can
> take several trips a year, pretty much can do
> whatever I want. I make about 70k now, but was
> doing ok making a little more than 50k. And if
> you're single and still young, might as well get a
> roommate, saves you even more money.
> The problems start once you start having kids.
> Daycare costs alone will kick your ass.


Hell yes!!! Daycare providers have to be sitting pretty! They and insurance companies rule the world/make all the decisions that you have to live by, LOL! Can't tell you how many families I know where (usually) the wife works solely to provide the health insurance for the family, otherwise almost her entire salary goes to pay for the daycare for the kids that require the health insurance!

agreed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> guest555 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A lot of these numbers being thrown around here
> > are ridiculous or your standard of "decent" is
> > very high.
> > I'm single, have a 3 bedroom condo in FFx, 2006
> > Acura (not great by any means, but not bad),
> can
> > take several trips a year, pretty much can do
> > whatever I want. I make about 70k now, but was
> > doing ok making a little more than 50k. And if
> > you're single and still young, might as well get
> a
> > roommate, saves you even more money.
> > The problems start once you start having kids.
> > Daycare costs alone will kick your ass.
>
>
> Hell yes!!! Daycare providers have to be sitting
> pretty! They and insurance companies rule the
> world/make all the decisions that you have to live
> by, LOL! Can't tell you how many families I know
> where (usually) the wife works solely to provide
> the health insurance for the family, otherwise
> almost her entire salary goes to pay for the
> daycare for the kids that require the health
> insurance!


Then How can so many illegal spics have a min of three kids in tow, and afford to live in this area?

You guys are so ridiculous.
I live in Centreville, make 70k, stay at home wife, and 2 kids.
We live comfortably, 2 new cars, My house is paid off. we have vacations.
I dont understand how you can be making 150 alone and complaining that its not enough.
What do you have, a heroine addiction?

But How? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> agreed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > guest555 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > A lot of these numbers being thrown around
> here
> > > are ridiculous or your standard of "decent"
> is
> > > very high.
> > > I'm single, have a 3 bedroom condo in FFx,
> 2006
> > > Acura (not great by any means, but not bad),
> > can
> > > take several trips a year, pretty much can do
> > > whatever I want. I make about 70k now, but
> was
> > > doing ok making a little more than 50k. And
> if
> > > you're single and still young, might as well
> get
> > a
> > > roommate, saves you even more money.
> > > The problems start once you start having
> kids.
> > > Daycare costs alone will kick your ass.
> >
> >
> > Hell yes!!! Daycare providers have to be
> sitting
> > pretty! They and insurance companies rule the
> > world/make all the decisions that you have to
> live
> > by, LOL! Can't tell you how many families I
> know
> > where (usually) the wife works solely to
> provide
> > the health insurance for the family, otherwise
> > almost her entire salary goes to pay for the
> > daycare for the kids that require the health
> > insurance!
>
>
> Then How can so many illegal spics have a min of
> three kids in tow, and afford to live in this
> area?


Section 8, free/reduced lunches, Medicaid, food stamps, the list goes on and on...

I know most people on here are trolls -- perhaps half of you are the same person for all I know but this really isn't that complicated. It doesn't cost all that much to live here. It's all about living within your means. The further from DC you live, the cheaper things become -- housing, gas, and even food.

You can buy a Honda Civic for under 20k new, rent an apartment for $1200-1500 a month, and buy groceries/cook your own food & still go out. Your monthly costs with a car payment are probably $2500-3000. You can easily handle all of this + other expenses, taxes, etc on say $60k/year total. You can get a tiny apartment far out for probably under 1k or get a roomate and pay $750. You can buy a used car in decent shape for even cheaper. I'm sure you could live just fine on $45k now.

To say you could get by on $90k, $125k, or more is called making poor choices and not managing your wealth (or lack thereof) very well.

The other thing is that many people around here are contractors.

They wave their "salary" around like a big peni$ but fail to mention that they don't get benefits. No health, No dental. No disablity. Gotta buy it all yourself.

It's a great deal if your spouse is a W-2 employee and gets benefits, but you can't compare W-2 to 1099 without disclosing you are talking 1099.

Paul B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The other thing is that many people around here
> are contractors.
>
> They wave their "salary" around like a big peni$
> but fail to mention that they don't get benefits.
> No health, No dental. No disablity. Gotta buy it
> all yourself.
>
> It's a great deal if your spouse is a W-2 employee
> and gets benefits, but you can't compare W-2 to
> 1099 without disclosing you are talking 1099.


Typical clueless fed. Only a small percentage of contractors are 1099. Many contractors have benefits that match up nicely with the feds, many choose to take the extra salary rather than the benefits because they can get a better deal on their own. Feds, for the most part, play by the same rules. Contractors are often free to negotiate their own deals.

I was a fed but I got board reading the Washington Post for a living, so I quit and got a job that is a 1000x more demanding but I don't feel like a loser every day driving home from another 6-7 hours of doing nothing.