Was this local business intially called Hudson Bay Outfitters only forced to change name to Hudson Trail after the original Hudson Bay company got wind of the name?

Does HTO have those special sales anymore?

Still the same, good, well trained folks. You are gonna pay more, but they know their stuff, and are active participants in whatever area, biking, kayaking, etc, where they work. They still have sales thru email

HTO is for granola eating, crackle-berry hazelnut latte drinking adventure sport poseurs...

HTO is REI's bitch.

REI is a corporate giant, that doesn't have local flavor. Therefore it ain't REI's bitch, although might be REI'd out like Walmart has killed small businesses

Local flavor? Where the fuck do you think this is? We ain't had local flavor here since the late 1700's...

Everything in this region COMES from some fucking place else! Except the half-smoke apparently...

Who gives a hiking fuck about local flavor? If you want to shop at a store for 13 year old anal pirates, shop at HTO. If you want to shop at a legit outdoor store, where the average employee's adventures have taken them beyond...oh say...Great Fucking Falls...then you can shop at the better store. That would be REI.

Local flavor...local fucking flavor...How'd does HTO's ass taste? Local flavor...

Hi Rear Admiral,

After fucking your mom, ie. local flavor, I've determined that you are a Internet tough guy lmao. Most of the folks at HTO have gone a bit further than Great Falls knucklehead.

Local flavor, FFX has plenty of it. We have history, a shitload of stuff to do, both recreation wise and other outdoor excursions, and exciting happenings at the Lamb Center. Is that where you are located?

Hi again Rear Admiral Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Rear Admiral,
>
> After fucking your mom, ie. local flavor, I've
> determined that you are a Internet tough guy lmao.
> Most of the folks at HTO have gone a bit further
> than Great Falls knucklehead.
>
> Local flavor, FFX has plenty of it. We have
> history, a shitload of stuff to do, both
> recreation wise and other outdoor excursions, and
> exciting happenings at the Lamb Center. Is that
> where you are located?

Agreed, there's lots of history here. There is not however, local flavor as it relates to retail. Not good retail...try to keep up with the original discussion...

HTO is excellent retail. Local and been around for 30 plus years. Excellent employees, who are well trained, informative, and yes you will pay for it. As for other retailers and businesses, FFX is the world hdqtrs for a lot of folks, and business such as malls and commerce areas play a huge part of the local economy. Is that what you are looking for? I like REI too, its just not a local biz. They also cost even more than HTO most of the time.

Okay there then Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HTO is excellent retail. Local and been around for
> 30 plus years. Excellent employees, who are well
> trained, informative, and yes you will pay for it.

They've been around for years because they've had no competition. With REI in the marketplace, HTO will be gone in 2 years. It's no different then what happened with Circuit City when Best Buy moved into town. And yes, I know Circuit City was based in Richmond...and yes, I know Richmond is not NOVA.

> As for other retailers and businesses, FFX is the
> world hdqtrs for a lot of folks, and business such
> as malls and commerce areas play a huge part of
> the local economy. Is that what you are looking
> for? I like REI too, its just not a local biz.
> They also cost even more than HTO most of the
> time.

This is 2011. With most, not all, retail stores these days there is typically a direct connection between price and quality. This conversation was not about who has the best prices. This conversation was about the best store.

And again, world view is important to me. Perhaps it's not important to you. If I'm trekking for a month in Africa, I want to consult with someone who has actually been there. The chances that I can walk in and find someone with that experience at HTO is less (not impossible) than at REI.

If you're looking to save a few bucks, and you're only going for a day trip to the Shennandoahs...HTO is the store for you.

I like HTO, enjoy shopping at a local business however their rewards program is HORRIBLE. REI's reward system is easier to use and redeem points.

REI has been in the market place for years but HTO still survives...

To answer your question, Yes.

Admiral Robert Peary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HTO is for granola eating, crackle-berry hazelnut
> latte drinking adventure sport poseurs...
>
> HTO is REI's bitch.



There are plenty of granola eating, crackle-berry hazelnut latte drinking adventure sport poseurs at REI. Especially around this area, I'd wager the vast majority of REI customers are yuppies with outdoors experience little more than driving their Subarus out to walk their golden retrievers around Big Meadows, or use their $300 boots to hike Whiteoak... once.



Admiral Robert Peary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to shop at a
> legit outdoor store, where the average employee's
> adventures have taken them beyond...oh say...Great
> Fucking Falls...then you can shop at the better
> store. That would be REI.


There have been some seriously hardcore HTO employees. I see a lot of softie, light-loafered fatbodies staffing the local REIs. In one store in particular, the majority of REI staff are nothing but lisping gear queer bicyclists, not exactly tough SOBs just back from bagging some Munroes or climbing McKinley.


I'm stating my observations of 20+ years of going to both HTO and REI for my gear.

Both are very good. Sure the $ amount is enormous but at both places you get the expertise, ie. fittings of backpacks and other equipment you wouldn't get at a walmart or dicks sporting goods store.

That alone is worth the extra cost. Also, their equipment is higher quality. HTO and REI both serve a purpose and at both I've run into some serious trekkers that have traversed the globe in a number of conditions. Good folks at both, REI is obviously a bit more corporate, and better for camping, hiking, while HTO has the edge on cycles/knives.

REI is for yuppie posers who want to look like they're outdoorsy and athletic.

"They've been around for years because they've had no competition. With REI in the marketplace, HTO will be gone in 2 years"

Hasn't HTO and REI been in the d.c. market for about 10 years now, what's happens in 2 years that causes the demise of HTO?

Doe anyone know where I can find a Hudson Bay Outfitters branded shirt?? Trying to track one down for my dad who used to frequent the shop back in the day, and would love to snag one pre Hudson Trail Outfitters namechange.

sir hilary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "They've been around for years because they've had
> no competition. With REI in the marketplace, HTO
> will be gone in 2 years"
>
> Hasn't HTO and REI been in the d.c. market for
> about 10 years now, what's happens in 2 years that
> causes the demise of HTO?


HTO has been in the D.C. area for like 30 years now.

Oh and I've been a little further than Great Fucking Falls. I spent awhile hiking, fishing and such in Alaska

Both REI and HTO are great. They both have everything anyone would need for any outdoor activities that you'd do within a six hour drive of DC. As for all you snot-nosed Everest climbers who look down on people who enjoy the outdoors rather than view it as some kind of pissing contest, maybe you can find some other way to compensate for your small dicks.

It's shocking that the REI shoppers, a majority being the "anti-corporation", "buy local" type of folks (frauds), would choose to shop at the larger, more corporate outdoors store rather than the smaller local chain.

And how could you have an issue with HTO's rewards program??? For instance...I bought a $900 bike at HTO, as a rewards member I got a $20 voucher for my next purchase. Present voucher, get $$$ off. Seems pretty simple. No? Where'd you get lost, Einstein?

As far as employee knowledge, between the two Fairfax stores, I give the edge to HTO, though I haven't really found any type of "expert" at either one. After all, this is Fairfax, it's the fucking suburbs and everyone here likes air conditioning and comfy couches.

Most of the kids at REI give me the "My parents paid for me to backpack Europe when I graduated, so I'm an experienced outdoors person", type vibe. Not to mention, REI is always full of Asian women, head-scarf wearing women and soccer moms, because it's "cool" to be outdoorsy and "environmentally aware" now, and we display our commitment to the planet by spending way too much money on a fucking shirt at an outdoors store, going across the street to buy a $5 coffee/milkshake, then hopping back into our BMW/Lexus/Mercedes and heading to our humble 4,000 sq ft abode shared by a family of two. Oh, we set the AC at 68 and leave the lights on too...

Back to the OP...I don't know what "special sales" are specifically, but I've found much, much, MUCH better deals at HTO than you ever will at REI.

And to everyone else, if you're choosing REI of HTO for your fall fleece to wear in your BMW convertible...Good.

My only gripe about HTO and REI is that they don't sell guns or ammo.

Well Idiots my experience has been exactly the opposite. A company I used to work for bought $2-3k in equipment and supplies each spring. REI's staff was usually fairly cooperative and reliable, and they readily exchanged items. The year we tried HTO was another story. They told us they had items they didn't have, store staff was not cooperative in locating items and they kept trying to "upgrade" us. This was 5 years ago so maybe things have changed.

I wouldn't touch HTO for bikes or certain other items. Their return policy is "NO RETURNS/EXCHANGES ON ANY NEW OR USED CYCLING, SNOWSPORT, WATERSPORT OR CLIMBING EQUIPMENT". REI's policy is "Every item you purchase at REI is 100% satisfaction guaranteed. You can return or exchange your item by mail or at any of our retail locations, regardless of whether you made your purchase online, by mail or in an REI store." $500-1,000 is too much money to be spending not to be able to test out the bike first. As for 'expertise' it seems like when I was at HTO the kid who was fitting boots or running the register was also the one selling the bikes, so I'd probably opt for a bike shop over either REI or HTO if I needed expertise.

I do like HTO for hiking boots.

HTO has this return policy for a reason.

The items for which they don't accept returns are items that could save your life, or, items if damaged, could lead to injury or the end of your life.

Say I buy a CC Mountain bike from HTO and take it to Snowshoe, take it off some pretty big drops and just generally use the bike for something other than it was built for. I decide I don't like the bike and return it. Little do I know about a few hairline fractures on the frame welds from the misuse i just put it through. HTO accepts the return and gives you your money back, examines the bike and puts it back on the shelf as the fractures can't be found by the naked eye. Some poor fuck buys the bike and takes it to FountainHead. The first log pile the poor fuck goes over, the frame splits, poor fuck gets an aluminum bar to the anus and breaks a leg. Next thing you know, HTO and the bike manufacturer get sued.

-OR-


I buy a kayak, take it out, run it over some rocks, wearing a few spots of the hull thin, or even creating a crack.
Again, I return it. The damage isn't detected, the boat is put back on the shelf and resold. Someone buys kayak, takes it out, runs over another rock or branch and the minor damage that the previous owner caused become more severe, the boat starts taking water and someone is swimming back to shore. Maybe the can't even swim and the dumbass drowns. Who's liable? Who's getting sued?

...And I can't even get started on why a company shouldn't accept climbing equipment returns!!!

It's all about liability. I don't blame HTO for not accepting returns on these things. If you're gonna buy a $1,000+ boat/bike/whatever, and aren't sure that it's exactly what you want, you're a douchebag anyway!

Hey, Bill N...You wanna buy some used climbing equipment? We'll just take that shit straight to El Capitan. After all, REI has a 100% satisfaction guarantee...and I guarantee your family can bury you in that Mountain Hardwear parka you just bought from REI.

I thought HTO had closed already. Is it still there at Fairfax Circle? In my opinion anyone who goes to a retail store for advice on outdoor gear deserves the luck-of-the-draw, potentially commission-biased info that they get. Do your research online and most likely you will enter the store more informed on the item of interest than anyone who works there. Both REI and HTO should also be avoided if you're interested in a specialty activity for which there already exist shops that are exclusively devoted. There are many excellent kayaking shops in the area, though mostly in Maryland.

HTO is great for camping / firequest gear.

Hey ...is an asshole (aka HTO employee)-Your argument MIGHT have some validity if we were only talking about new equipment. However if you read the HTO policy carefully you would note it says "ANY NEW OR USED". If HTO isn't taking returns solely because they are concerned about the safety of their customers, why are they willing to sell used items? Notice it also does not differentiate between items being returned unused and those being returned used, again indicating that it isn't just about safety.

The policies in my post were direct copies from HTO and REI's websites. After your HELPFUL post I checked a few others online. Performance Bicycle's policy said "If an item does not meet your expectations, just send it back and we will promptly replace, refund, or credit your account - whichever you prefer." Revolution Cycles and Spokes Etc. say they will give refunds or exchanges on unused items but impose restrictions on returns of used items.

Return policies aren't everything. However you have five companies selling bikes and HTO's policies are more restrictive than the rest.

And thanks for that "douchbag" comment. It confirms that we made the right choice in going around the corner and buying my son's bike from Performance a couple of years back.

I would like to give HTO more of my business but their selection is not as good as REI, nor, as stated above, is thier rewards program or return policy.

Overall i just find the store the be depressing, the music, the employees, the parking lot.

I have some friends that frequent the HTO locaton in DC or right around DC, they seem to have a higher opinion of the store. Maybe the other locations are just better for whatever reason.

Whatever happened to the Appalachian Outfitters located at 123 & Huntermills Road?

AO closed down years ago. The obit for the founder can be found at http://www.sungazette.net/mclean-greatfalls-vienna-oakton/news/appalachian-outfitters-founder-remembered-for-distinguished-career/article_55f31904-609c-52a0-be95-49a95bc2b1c0.html

The Appalachian Outfitters building was actually an old schoolhouse. It was stripped down to its original form, and moved a few blocks away to park land on Hunter Mill Road.

One day it will be turned into a historical site.

I know it's cool on FU to be snarky and all, but REI sells the best outdoor gear (plus some wannabe clothing/filler), and has well-informed staff. Not only do they know what they're talking about, they never try to sell stuff you don't need, and the Fairfax bike shop is outstanding.

REI rocks.

I find that the seven corners staff is more knowledgeable than the Fairfax staff. I may be wrong but they also seem to have a wider inventory. And I feel like less of a yuppie when I shop at that location.

I meant the Bailey's Crossroads location, my bad

did Col. Couch own AO the last few years of its existence? I kind of thought he sold the business to a young lady but maintained ownership of the building and land in Oakton. I got the feeling the young lady got in over her head with AO with either business dropping off significantly and carrying very little inventory or perhaps vice a versa. I thought she just ended up walking away one day?

old times good times Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> did Col. Couch own AO the last few years of its
> existence? I kind of thought he sold the business
> to a young lady but maintained ownership of the
> building and land in Oakton. I got the feeling
> the young lady got in over her head with AO with
> either business dropping off significantly and
> carrying very little inventory or perhaps vice a
> versa. I thought she just ended up walking away
> one day?


I remember there being a sign hanging from the building right before it closed saying something like "Those who lose their vision, go out of business" then a tree fell down on the building.

That's funny, because I can't remember the last time I saw used gear for sale at HTO...or REI or Performance for that matter. My guess is that the larger retailers like Performance or REI have agreements where they can send returns back to the manufacturer for credit or replacement. HTO, being a small, local chain doesn't have that luxury, thus they can't accept returns on specific items and safely try to resell them.

It's just like BUYING LOCAL, William. Do you want to pay a little more knowing that you're supporting a local business who truly does have a better rewards program, and from my experience, better service, or do you wanna just piss away your money at a shit store like Performance, or a store that has traveled so far away from their original intent, like REI?

Also, if you hadn't noticed, I'm an asshole. I won't shop at REI. Not because of anything that REI did, or anything they don't offer (though HTO prices are much better) but simply because of the type of people I see when I go there. The local animals have made a mockery of REI and the outdoor products that they sell. It's just like the fucking Patagonia store in Georgetown. An outdoor store...in Georgetown? Nothing but the upper crust there buying expensive outdoor clothing that will never even see a spec of dirt.

It's also quite humorous that you think I'm an HTO employee. Well, you're blowing your little load over REI, Performance, etc. That must mean that you have a part time job at each of those retailers if you feel so strongly about them!

And for the record...Performance Bike next to HTO...second worst bike shop I've ever been to, right behind Spokes at 29/50 in Fairfax. They must have ignored you at HTO because you carry the scent of "douchebag" with you...

Go ahead and rely on your return policy William. Personally, if I'm spending hundreds of dollars on something I'm going to be damned certain I make the correct decision the first time. And if I'm spending 100's of dollars on something and it breaks under normal use during the first 30-60-90 days, you can be damn sure that they will be accepting a return WHEREVER the item was purchased.

Bill N Has The Clap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And if I'm spending 100's of dollars on something
> and it breaks under normal use during the first
> 30-60-90 days, you can be damn sure that they will
> be accepting a return WHEREVER the item was
> purchased.

Not if you bought it at HTO you won't!

Bill N Has The Clap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, if you hadn't noticed, I'm an asshole. I
> won't shop at REI. Not because of anything that
> REI did, or anything they don't offer (though HTO
> prices are much better) but simply because of the
> type of people I see when I go there. The local
> animals have made a mockery of REI and the outdoor
> products that they sell. It's just like the
> fucking Patagonia store in Georgetown. An outdoor
> store...in Georgetown? Nothing but the upper
> crust there buying expensive outdoor clothing that
> will never even see a spec of dirt.

Clearly this isn't about HTO, their local origin,or their return policy. It's about YoU. So what if some, even most of those folk who are buying stuff at REI or Patagonia or I suspect even HTO will never see a spec of dirt. Their purchases will help sustain stores that will sell to those who do. Seems to me though that someone with your viewpoint would love to have REIs and Patagonias out there so they would keep all of us clap ridden asses out of YOUR store.

In summary:
I've generally had good experiences buying stuff at REI.
I had a bad experience buying stuff at HTO ca. 5 years ago, even though my company was spending some serious money.
HTO has more restrictive return policies than its competitors when it comes to items such as bikes, etc.
I am apparently a douchbag who has 4 part time jobs at different bike shops.
"Idiots" aka "Bill N is..." aka "Bill N has..." is a self admitted asshole.

My work here is done.

Damn Billy, you got me there...I may as well give up now.

What is this secret company you worked for and what was the gear purchased at this sizable expense? You're being all hush-hush about it. I'm thinking maybe you work for the CIA or FBI...

Or...you work for some accounting firm just had to order a buch of matching, company color better sweaters for that treacherous journey from the parking lot to your cubicle...

And I'm 99% sure that if you purchase a product that turns out to be defective HTO will exchange the item, so none of that "Not if you buys it HTO!! Lolz!!" shit...The "No returns..." goes for indecisive fucks that want to demo the whole bike section for a week at a time each before changing their Mind about the whole purchase.

My done is work here...