I'm trying to understand who the customer is who will ride from Dulles to downtown on a subway train after flying on a plane to get here...Obviously, the project is underway and the airport was initially built with the understanding that eventually rail service would connect Dulles to downtown. But, here's a sampling of current transportation options, fares and times:

Washington Flyer Taxi
From Dulles Airport to my office near 18th and K is $56 + $10 tip totalling $66. The trip takes approximately an hour, more or less depending on the time of day/traffic/weather. Taxis available 24 hours a day, no reservations needed.

Washington Flyer Bus
The bus goes from Dulles to West Falls Church Metro Station. The cost for the bus is $10 and it takes 30 minutes. Then another $3.50 in MetroRail fare and another 20 minute ride to Farragut West closest to my office. $13.50 total and about 50 minutes, plus time waiting for the transfer at West Falls Church. The bus and rail do NOT run 24 hours a day, no reservations needed.

SuperShuttle Van
$30 + $6 tip totalling $36 and like the Washington Flyer Taxi COULD take about an hour. However, you will likely be sharing the van with other annoying travellers and will make many stops on the way to downtown DC. Then again, you may not...but the point is, you'll never know until you board. Not sure on the operational hours and reservations are recommended.

SuperShuttle Sedan Service
Private car, I'm assuming a clean, Lincoln Towncar. $109 plus $22 tip totalling $131 and again about an hour to downtown DC but you won't be sharing your ride and won't be stopping except for your final destination. Also not sure on the operational hours and I'm sure reservations would be required for such a specialized service.

Current METRORail fare from Franconia-Springfield to Largo Town Center
The fares on the silver line have not yet been announced but, for sake of comparison I ran the above trip which is one end of the blue line to the other. I'm guessing the silver line + orange line transfer to downtown DC won't be as long but the fare for that blue line trip is $5.20 and 64 minutes.

What will happen when the silver line opens? Will travellers (both locals and foreigners) flock to the Metro? Will taxis, vans and car services adjust their prices? If so, fares will go up or down? If no adjustment, why not? Discuss...

I think the primary users would be tourists. They would like the idea of getting on 1 train and not having to get off until they reach their destination. But, if they have a lot of luggage, they will not want to ride the metro. Or maybe they will, and it will fuck over everyone else becuase they will obstruct all the seats with their baggage.

Most other big cities that people want to travel to, both in the US and internationally have a rail line connecting the airport with the downtown area. So perhaps tourists will like it instead of having to figure out all the confusing transportation options there are now. I suppose forigners probably have more trouble figuing out how to get to DC from Dulles than people from the rest of the US.

We must remember of course that the metro will also bring people from DC out here. This could be a problem if the gangs of DC and PG county come to Tysons area, one of the last not-ghetto malls and business areas. I hope Fairfax County and the mall managers will keep that under control. It would be a damn shame to see Tysons I and II become Springfield Mall.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2012 09:04PM by KeepOnTruckin.

The end is near. if the illegal spics don't fuck it up first, the negro will.

I expect a shitload of bags ont he silver line. Combine all the luggage from the airport with shopping bags from Tyson's, its going to be a complete clusterfuck.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the primary users would be tourists. They
> would like the idea of getting on 1 train and not
> having to get off until they reach their
> destination. But, if they have a lot of luggage,
> they will not want to ride the metro. Or maybe
> they will, and it will fuck over everyone else
> becuase they will obstruct all the seats with
> their baggage.
>
> Most other big cities that people want to travel
> to, both in the US and internationally have a rail
> line connecting the airport with the downtown
> area. So perhaps tourists will like it instead of
> having to figure out all the confusing
> transportation options there are now. I suppose
> forigners probably have more trouble figuing out
> how to get to DC from Dulles than people from the
> rest of the US.
>
> We must remember of course that the metro will
> also bring people from DC out here. This could be
> a problem if the gangs of DC and PG county come to
> Tysons area, one of the last not-ghetto malls and
> business areas. I hope Fairfax County and the mall
> managers will keep that under control. It would be
> a damn shame to see Tysons I and II become
> Springfield Mall.

Meh...let the malls and their high prices and poor service burn in the 12th ring of hell. They've had their day.

I can order anything I want off the interwebz and have it delivered right to my door and never have to burn any gas going to the mall, deal with my car getting dinged, over-priced poorly prepared food, hypersexed inappropriately dressed pre-teens, drugged out teens, odorous Hispanics and Latinos, armed and dangerous Blacks, drooling retards, cranky seniors on their stupid fucking mall walks, aloof non-anally interested MILFs and finally all of the obnoxiously hirsuite Arabs running their mortgaged to the hilt carts selling shit that no one has ever bought ever.

Online Shopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meh...let the malls and their high prices and poor
> service burn in the 12th ring of hell. They've had
> their day.
>
> I can order anything I want off the interwebz and
> have it delivered right to my door and never have
> to burn any gas going to the mall, deal with my
> car getting dinged, over-priced poorly prepared
> food, hypersexed inappropriately dressed
> pre-teens, drugged out teens, odorous Hispanics
> and Latinos, armed and dangerous Blacks, drooling
> retards, cranky seniors on their stupid fucking
> mall walks, aloof non-anally interested MILFs and
> finally all of the obnoxiously hirsuite Arabs
> running their mortgaged to the hilt carts selling
> shit that no one has ever bought ever.


When a big-ass retail center is being built, would you prefer it contain a mall or an Amazon distribution center? Which do you think will attract more housing, business, etc to the surrouding area?

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Online Shopper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Meh...let the malls and their high prices and
> poor
> > service burn in the 12th ring of hell. They've
> had
> > their day.
> >
> > I can order anything I want off the interwebz
> and
> > have it delivered right to my door and never
> have
> > to burn any gas going to the mall, deal with my
> > car getting dinged, over-priced poorly prepared
> > food, hypersexed inappropriately dressed
> > pre-teens, drugged out teens, odorous Hispanics
> > and Latinos, armed and dangerous Blacks,
> drooling
> > retards, cranky seniors on their stupid fucking
> > mall walks, aloof non-anally interested MILFs
> and
> > finally all of the obnoxiously hirsuite Arabs
> > running their mortgaged to the hilt carts
> selling
> > shit that no one has ever bought ever.
>
>
> When a big-ass retail center is being built, would
> you prefer it contain a mall or an Amazon
> distribution center? Which do you think will
> attract more housing, business, etc to the
> surrouding area?

I'll take the Amazon distribution center. Actually, we already have one in Chantilly. Besides, we don't need things in the 703 to generate housing or business. What we need...and I'm surprised you didn't know this...are more roads to support the people, business and housing that's ALREADY here. Then and only then can we talk about additional expansion.

It would only make to much sense to have a dedicated light rail train from Union station to Dulles

As usual, the DC area manages to fuck up transportation planning. The Silver Line as planned stinks. It will take forever to get from Dulles to Arlington or DC because you will need to stop everywhere in between. The smarter move would have been an express line hitting Dulles, maybe Tysons, Rosslyn and then somewhere in DC. But what does the govt care? They'll just hit us up for more taxes, fares and tolls when it is a disaster. They already show they don't care by handing over the work to the company best known for the Boston "Big Dig" project without competitive bidding. Nevermind that the biggest winner here is MWAA and they haven't even been asked to raise passenger facility charges to pay for anything. Bottom line, this is being done so developers can make money. Fuck the commuter and tax payer.

Online Shopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Online Shopper Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Meh...let the malls and their high prices and
> > poor
> > > service burn in the 12th ring of hell.
> They've
> > had
> > > their day.
> > >
> > > I can order anything I want off the interwebz
> > and
> > > have it delivered right to my door and never
> > have
> > > to burn any gas going to the mall, deal with
> my
> > > car getting dinged, over-priced poorly
> prepared
> > > food, hypersexed inappropriately dressed
> > > pre-teens, drugged out teens, odorous
> Hispanics
> > > and Latinos, armed and dangerous Blacks,
> > drooling
> > > retards, cranky seniors on their stupid
> fucking
> > > mall walks, aloof non-anally interested MILFs
> > and
> > > finally all of the obnoxiously hirsuite Arabs
> > > running their mortgaged to the hilt carts
> > selling
> > > shit that no one has ever bought ever.
> >
> >
> > When a big-ass retail center is being built,
> would
> > you prefer it contain a mall or an Amazon
> > distribution center? Which do you think will
> > attract more housing, business, etc to the
> > surrouding area?
>
> I'll take the Amazon distribution center.
> Actually, we already have one in Chantilly.
> Besides, we don't need things in the 703 to
> generate housing or business. What we need...and
> I'm surprised you didn't know this...are more
> roads to support the people, business and housing
> that's ALREADY here. Then and only then can we
> talk about additional expansion.

and thanks to that distribution center, come 2013 amazon sales in VA will add state sales tax.
woop woop

Anyone whose driven on 267 east in the morning rush should understand the need for the silver line.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the primary users would be tourists.

And area residents looking to avoid the ridiculous parking situation out there.

Phase 1 of the Silver Line ends at Wiehle, Phase 2 ends in Ashburn and will be complete by 2016. The line won't just end at Dulles. Lots of people going from there to Tysons every day.

Yet they refuse to bring Metro past Vienna, there is huge need to extend that sucker out to at least centreville

NOVACommuter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Washington Flyer Taxi
> From Dulles Airport to my office near 18th and K
> is $56 + $10 tip totalling $66.

$10? You are a cheap bastard.

That is close to a 20% tip. Good enough for a cab driver.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Silver line= fine. But I-66 cooridor also needs extending. "I-66" to Gainsville NOW!!!

Pinhead the Cenobite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is close to a 20% tip. Good enough for a cab
> driver.


Close ain't 20%. Given the fact those cabbies have to go all the way back to Dulles without a fare, they deserve a full 20%. In that situation, I'd give the guy $70 and call it a day. He likely needs the $4 more than I do.

I 66 would've made far more sense - especially as it (I66) was orignially designed (in spots) to allow metro "retrofitting", but that idea was slowly dropped...
To Dulles is a waste - according to DC's own tourist information, this is a "drive" destination area, with a low % of fly in - especially to Dulles. A light rail is needed for tourist business - how many families w/kids & stacks of luggage will fit on Metro cars? This isn't the LIRR to Penn Station, or even MARTA from Hartsfield...

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I 66 would've made far more sense - especially as
> it (I66) was orignially designed (in spots) to
> allow metro "retrofitting", but that idea was
> slowly dropped...
> To Dulles is a waste - according to DC's own
> tourist information, this is a "drive" destination
> area, with a low % of fly in - especially to
> Dulles. A light rail is needed for tourist
> business - how many families w/kids & stacks of
> luggage will fit on Metro cars? This isn't the
> LIRR to Penn Station, or even MARTA from
> Hartsfield...

Its not all about catering to families. Is there even a study on what % of air traffic is families vs business/couples/individual air travelers?

If your a family of 4 flying out of Dulles, then metro will not be a good option for you so take your car or cab. Nothing is ever going to be a one size fits all.

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> To Dulles is a waste - according to DC's own
> tourist information, this is a "drive" destination
> area, with a low % of fly in -

It wasn't built to improve tourist infrastructure. Its purpose was to link the Dulles corridor "business district" to the metro rail system and spur higher-density development in places like Tysons and Reston. This was built with local residents and commerce in mind, not tourism.

Extend Orange out I-66 !!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Silver line= fine. But I-66 cooridor also needs
> extending. "I-66" to Gainsville NOW!!!

Absolutely the right move. You put stations at Fair Oaks, Fair Lakes, Centreville, 234, and Gainesville.

Not Cheap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pinhead the Cenobite Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That is close to a 20% tip. Good enough for a
> cab
> > driver.
>
>
> Close ain't 20%. Given the fact those cabbies
> have to go all the way back to Dulles without a
> fare, they deserve a full 20%. In that situation,
> I'd give the guy $70 and call it a day. He likely
> needs the $4 more than I do.


The extra money will just go to his terrorist cell at his Mosque!

I know what the current excuses (er, rationales) for extension into Tysons are - that's why I66 would've made more sense.
Hay, yes,there are demographic studies - and most Dulles air traffic is connection/international and dispersal (that means travellers aren't headed to one specific destination). OTOH, there is a good deal of business flight travel to DC - and it's at National (over 80%, w/the balance being tourist into DC).

As to spurring "high density" - I have to laugh. Seriously. Do those (incl. Fairfax "supervisors") who say/type that ever travel thru RTC/TC? How much more "high density" is it supposed to get? According to the County's own study the corridor from Marshall HS to the DTR is just as dense as parts of Manhattan...

Personally I think it's a great idea and I don't think too many people will mind the commute time considering there are very few options to get into DC. As the OP pointed out the quickest ways to get there are often the most expensive. While living in Europe I loved the concept of taking a train or a subway to the airport which made so much sense.

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> As to spurring "high density" - I have to laugh.
> Seriously. Do those (incl. Fairfax "supervisors")
> who say/type that ever travel thru RTC/TC? How
> much more "high density" is it supposed to get?
> According to the County's own study the corridor
> from Marshall HS to the DTR is just as dense as
> parts of Manhattan...

Not sure what "DTR" is but I haven't seen any neighborhood around FFX that even bares a remote resemblance to Manhattan. For as jam-packed as Tysons Corner is, only about 20k people live there. I expect that places like Pike 7 Plaza and the shopping center where Marshalls is won't exist in 10 years. Those properties will be high rise offices & condos. I'd also expect to see alot of stuff pop up around Whiele Ave. This won't happen overnight, but these areas will look alot different 20 years from now, because of the metro.

It's mostly commuter rail beyond Tysons Corner. I don't see myself walking the 30 minutes to an hour multiple times daily to use the Metro. To use it to get to any of the other stations on the Orange/Silver line, each trip would take a couple of hours out of the day, not including the time spent at the destination to conduct business. I think it could've easily been cut off at Tysons Corner and the rest of the line set up for express commuter bus service. The remainder of the Silver Line is going to serve mostly as a backbone for the bus services that need to be grow to support Loudoun and Western Fairfax.

Bob in Southeast Loudoun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Extend Orange out I-66 !!! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Silver line= fine. But I-66 cooridor also
> needs
> > extending. "I-66" to Gainsville NOW!!!
>
> Absolutely the right move. You put stations at
> Fair Oaks, Fair Lakes, Centreville, 234, and
> Gainesville.
________________________________

LOL and i would pity all those poor suckers jumping on in gainesville. a gainesville to metrocenter commute, on the orange line, would be the suckiest of suck.

I thought there was already a mass transit/rail option for the good folk of Gainesville - VRE.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Pinhead the Cenobite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought there was already a mass transit/rail
> option for the good folk of Gainesville - VRE.

There is but i think it comes close to the capacity needed.

Might have 3-4 trains a day, each carrying a few hundred people. I could be wrong but doesn't seem like much to me.

Hay Zeus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pinhead the Cenobite Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I thought there was already a mass transit/rail
> > option for the good folk of Gainesville - VRE.
>
> There is but i think it comes close to the
> capacity needed.
>
> Might have 3-4 trains a day, each carrying a few
> hundred people. I could be wrong but doesn't seem
> like much to me.

________________________

schedule looks like they have 6 morning runs out of manassas, between 5 and 8, with 2 afternoon ones.

There's a huge towncenter at 66 going up in Gainesville. Is the new VRE station going there when it's approved?

Here's what's going to happen once the Silver Line is operational. One Blue and Orange Line train will be taken out of service because of the Silver Line train. This has already been mentioned by Metro. So, anyone riding the Blue and Orange Line, expect longer wait times and even more crowed trains because of the elimination of the other trains.

Metro down I-66 was talked about but in reality everyone knew that it was not going to happen. just talked about it to appease the public.

"Metro down I-66 was talked about but in reality everyone knew that it was not going to happen"

??? Last time I checked Metro is still in the middle of I66. FWIW, it was still in the works until the final route was forced to turn south @ Centreville - note the straight & even westbound incline from the 50 interchange just happens to match the max grade for Metro...

From "Roads to the Future", part of the Coleman decision:

"Provide right-of-way in the median for Metro without cost, and "assist the Metro system through complete construction of the median to the point that rails could be placed by the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority with minimal construction expense", and provide other assistance to Metro construction, all as set forth in the Final Four Lane Supplemental EIS"

Online Shopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll take the Amazon distribution center.
> Actually, we already have one in Chantilly.
> Besides, we don't need things in the 703 to
> generate housing or business. What we need...and
> I'm surprised you didn't know this...are more
> roads to support the people, business and housing
> that's ALREADY here. Then and only then can we
> talk about additional expansion.


I agree about more roads. In fact, I think the number one most useful road that could be built is the so-called Techway. Basically it would extend Rt 28 north and build a bridge over the potomac, and connect to the ICC in Maryland. VDOT did a study that found a huge percentage of people were driving on the DTR, north on 495 over American Legion Bridge, and back up 270. And same thing with Maryland drivers in the opposite directions. I think if this bridge was built, a huge amount of traffic would be taken off of the DTR and 495 in from Tysons to 270.
Hell, they wouln't even need Metro to Dulles anymore becuase of all the traffic that would be gone.

As for Metro down 66, yeah they talked about it but realistically, how can they put it in without adding a third track past Vienna? Trains are full at Vienna or WFC every morning. If the line was extended even to Centreville, there would be no space on the trains by the time it got to Vienna. And those fuckers in Arlington would never allow the construction of a third track.
Any expansion of metro down i-66 would surely involve a station at Fair Oaks Mall. Sure this would be very convenient for a lot of people, shoppers and commuters (think of how much parking there is and can be built at Fair Oaks) but you again have the issue of DC's gangs coming out and jacking everyone at the mall and making it ghetto.

I think a seperate express bus or light rail line could be built from Gainesville to City of Fairfax, on new lanes in I-66 median, and then find some way to get it into DC on its own dedicated lanes or rails.

Any of the other proposed routes would've been better than the debt sandwich future residents will be eating. Fairfax County demo studies for the past two decades indicate that there is more "cross" traffic (commuters in every direction) than the classic "suburb/city" two way flow - and trying to force people into that pattern will mean fewer paying passengers than expected (whodathunkthat? Oh, wait - that's the same in every new suburban rail line), higher operating costs, and a greater burden on future taxpayers.

Quote

the so-called Techway. Basically it would extend Rt 28 north and build a bridge over the potomac, and connect to the ICC in Maryland. VDOT did a study that found a huge percentage of people were driving on the DTR, north on 495 over American Legion Bridge, and back up 270.

this is such a no brainer. it's inexcusable that there's no bridge between the beltway and leesburg.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jess1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > As to spurring "high density" - I have to
> laugh.
> > Seriously. Do those (incl. Fairfax
> "supervisors")
> > who say/type that ever travel thru RTC/TC? How
> > much more "high density" is it supposed to get?
> > According to the County's own study the
> corridor
> > from Marshall HS to the DTR is just as dense as
> > parts of Manhattan...
>
> Not sure what "DTR" is but I haven't seen any
> neighborhood around FFX that even bares a remote
> resemblance to Manhattan. For as jam-packed as
> Tysons Corner is, only about 20k people live
> there. I expect that places like Pike 7 Plaza and
> the shopping center where Marshalls is won't exist
> in 10 years. Those properties will be high rise
> offices & condos. I'd also expect to see alot of
> stuff pop up around Whiele Ave. This won't happen
> overnight, but these areas will look alot
> different 20 years from now, because of the metro.

Meeper...the DTR = Dulles Toll Road.

Descrambler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Meeper...the DTR = Dulles Toll Road.


Yeah I got it soon after I wrote that. I thought he was referring to "DownTown Reston" or something.

As far as my 'high density' comment, I saw something earlier that said Herndon approved the construction of 15-story buildings near the future Herndon metro station.

Penny Pincher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NOVACommuter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Washington Flyer Taxi
> > From Dulles Airport to my office near 18th and
> K
> > is $56 + $10 tip totalling $66.
>
> $10? You are a cheap bastard.

For what it's worth, if there are extenuating circumstances such as foul weather, or the driver doesn't behave like a racer behind the wheel or the driver actually gets off his ass and helps me with my bags, etc. then I tip more.

I was seeking a standard tip of 20%. In the future, I'll tip $11.20 making the total trip $67.20.

curmudgeon1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the so-called Techway. Basically it would extend
> Rt 28 north and build a bridge over the potomac,
> and connect to the ICC in Maryland. VDOT did a
> study that found a huge percentage of people were
> driving on the DTR, north on 495 over American
> Legion Bridge, and back up 270.
>
> this is such a no brainer. it's inexcusable that
> there's no bridge between the beltway and
> leesburg.

Maryland doesn't want it for 2 reasons -

1) Even fewer people would work in Maryland if it were easier to get to Va.
2) Deers and duckies in their "Agricultural Reserve" (read 5 acre farmette mansion district...) might get scared.

The farmette guys have so much pull that there have actually been proposals to build the MD side with no exits between 270 and the river.

WestfieldDad Wrote:

>
> Maryland doesn't want it for 2 reasons -
>
> 1) Even fewer people would work in Maryland if it
> were easier to get to Va.
> 2) Deers and duckies in their "Agricultural
> Reserve" (read 5 acre farmette mansion
> district...) might get scared.
>
> The farmette guys have so much pull that there
> have actually been proposals to build the MD side
> with no exits between 270 and the river.

Sounds great! Less traffic getting on and off, which causes delays. They will be cursing themselves on a daily basis when they have to drive 10 miles north to get on the highway and go back south.
5 years later MD will end up building the exits at great taxpayer expense. But who cares, as long as we Virginians dont pay it

But what about all of the houses in the way?

It amazes me how many people are still left who ignorantly think that public transit is somehow the gateway to crime. Who takes Metro home from ripping off your house? The fools who jack people in the malls don't depend on metro to do it, either they take their car or they took the bus before. And oh, the other blatant racism on this page is completely unacceptable anyway.

Gone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And oh, the other blatant racism on this
> page is completely unacceptable anyway.

Unacceptable to YOU perhaps. But YOU can go fuck yourself.

Racism is awesome.

And its an integral part of FFU. If you don't like it you can get out.

You've still got to get to the Metro and/or the Silver line to ride it. Many more local people will not be in walking distance and will still need taxis to go to and from the nearby new Silver line Metro stations. Many folks in the suburbs have few to no reasonable or convenient choices to even consider bus stops.

A lot more people will be motivated to take Metro to Dulles rather than drive. They will save many $$$ by not having to pay high daily airport parking rates.