Cop shot dude in his house when he opened the door. Now they just let him die.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2013 05:03PM by 6X.

6X Wrote:
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> Cop shot dude in his house when he opened the
> door. Now just let him die.

And let that be a lesson to criminals!

WTF? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 6X Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cop shot dude in his house when he opened the
> > door. Now just let him die.
>
> And let that be a lesson to criminals!


Don't open the door with anything in your hands that might look like a gun even if you are just holding it by your side. It only takes 7 mins to bleed to death. It's been over 20mins.

Tippys Taco

Link?

Missing Link Wrote:
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> Link?


I am the link. Looks like there is no need to take him to the hospital....RIP dude

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Shots-Fired-at-Springfield-Va-Home-221693811.html

Dude is toast.

Suspect in Fairfax Co. Barricade Situation Dead
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Shots-Fired-at-Springfield-Va-Home-221693811.html

Fairfax County Police confirmed the suspect in a Springfield, Va. barricade Thursday was shot and killed by officers.

Crews were dispatched to the 7900 block of Pebble Brook Court around 2:30 p.m. for a domestic disturbance. Police say an individual inside the home refused to let officers inside, and police fired one shot inside the home at around 3:30 p.m.

The home's front door was knocked in by a police tanker as SWAT team members made their way inside at approximately 5 p.m. Officials later confirmed the gunshot fired by police earlier in the afternoon had killed the suspect.

Police say residents around the area had been told to stay inside their homes.
Attachments:

Dey used dat truk to open nigga's doe!

That is not West Springfield. It's at the southern end of what can be considered the Springfield area, almost Lorton.

looks like a matruss on the ground near the front door. Probably was kicked out and went off

The report says that the cops were called for a "domestic disturbance".

But, the man was alone.

How does THAT work?

They shot a guy who was alone in his home????

Easier than keeping Walmart parking lot clear of punk ass kids. Guy was hoarding donuts.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2013 10:39PM by chuckhoffmann.

Need answers as to why they killed the man.
They aren't saying much, and its probly for a reason

Nothing in any of the news reports that John Geer showed any sort of weapon, or advanced toward them. Police will need some time to develop their justification story.

chuckhoffmann Wrote:
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> Colleen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The report says that the cops were called for a
> > "domestic disturbance".
> >
> > But, the man was alone.
> >
> > How does THAT work?
> >
> > They shot a guy who was alone in his home????
>
> Either another person who lived in the house fled
> the scene, or Geer was causing such a commotion
> that someone else in the neighborhood called the
> cops.
>
> There's a Maura Harrington listed at the same
> address, 7907 Pebble Brook Court, as the decedent,
> John Geer. Maybe he got in a fight with his
> girlfriend, she ran off and called the cops,
> helpfully letting them know that Geer had guns in
> the house.

I think of course there were guns in the house. A report said his common law wife is a DEA agent. Most of them are armed.

Also, a report on the 11:00 news (Channel 4) last night was speculating that his wife and children will be grieving. They also said there was a 911 call from a woman.

With the info right now, this seems quite fishy.

Was he set up? Dunno. But the cops still shot a guy who was alone in his house. I'd like to know more about that 911 call...like who made it and why.

Then I'd like to know why they shot a guy alone in his home.

I understand that when cops respond to a call knowing that arms are available to the person about whom the caller is complaining, they are more on guard; but that doesn't justify killing a man in his home. It's not illegal to have legally obtained arms (and there's no info that any arms there were illegal) in one's home...yet.

Militant cops. I bet the Department would buy fully loaded Abram tanks if they had they were allowed to.

Rumor is that the guy was holding a handful of blueberries. As everyone knows, that's presenting an imminent danger to the entire community. Clearly the shooting was justified.

The girl friend or wife left the house and went to the neighbors house. Not sure why she called the police or why they shot him in his home.

it could be an eviction

if you refuse a false eviction notice, even if you are legally correct, they will come shoot you

that's on the "human watch list" of course. very popular in texas recently

ooooh a woman !!! well woman are evil that explains the whole thing.

no way to say if it's justified. did he harm the woman or did she lie to get him in trouble becasue she's a total bitch?

we'll never know probably. they likely aren't releasing details. but who knows!

if the individual in the dwelling is know to have a gun and is reported for making

threats and if police arrive and order the person out of the house and the person

refuses and is seen carrying and or pointing the gun at police officers, they (the police) are

justified to shoot back. Unfortunately avoinding a deadly shot is not a predictability with guns, even for an expert shooter.

I live in this area and the last gun shooting by police that was fatal was outside Kay Jenning Toyota in I think 2011 or 2012. The man came at the Police Officer with a knife.

Paul, are you saying that simply being REPORTED for making a threat (no confirmation), refusing entrance without a warrant, and CARRYING a gun justifies a non- judicial death sentence?

I think you'd be more comfortable living in a totalitarian state, like North Korea. Living in a nation with our Constitution appears to disagree with you.

Wazzat Wrote:
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> Paul, are you saying that simply being REPORTED
> for making a threat (no confirmation), refusing
> entrance without a warrant, and CARRYING a gun
> justifies a non- judicial death sentence?
>
> I think you'd be more comfortable living in a
> totalitarian state, like North Korea. Living in a
> nation with our Constitution appears to disagree
> with you.

It's disgusting, I agree. But let's save our outrage for when they tell us the offending officer will be allowed back on duty. Who knows what the DA will do to this one. After firing that last guy, it's up in the air. Though in that case he would deserve criminal charges...

When we stop paying attention, say a month from now, FCPD will list the reason why the cops MURDERED this guy.

Then an investigation will reveal that the shooting was justified.

I guess until this police brutality hits us personally, we just won't give a shit about other people.

We don't know all the facts associated with this case. To accuse anyone of murder without knowing the barest of facts, and calling it "police brutality" is completely ridiculous. How would you like it if someone charged you with murder based on the same lack of evidence that was presented in the online articles?

Another botched and murderous police action by the FCPD, a bunch of keystone cops.

Because its personnel spend 75% of their on-duty time attempting to ensnare drivers on their way to work edging 10 MPH over the speed limit in order to make up for lost time sitting in traffic, the FCPD has no real training or experience when it comes to ACTUAL troublesome police action.

One shot and a kill. The victim: a man standing in his own doorway. It will take three months for the FCPD and the County Attorney to cook up a story, whitewash the investigation, and exonerate all involved. Where was the gun. Hey officers, we only need one left behind, not 23.

Seriously-shut the fuck up already stoner.

Awesome Wrote:
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> Seriously-shut the fuck up already stoner.

If he's a stoner, then you're a fascist.

assumptions Wrote:
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> We don't know all the facts associated with this
> case. To accuse anyone of murder without knowing
> the barest of facts, and calling it "police
> brutality" is completely ridiculous. How would
> you like it if someone charged you with murder
> based on the same lack of evidence that was
> presented in the online articles?


Exactly. Just like they handled my case. Besides, I'm still dead.

If it was justified, then why aren't the cops saying the guys aimed a weapon at them, etc or some other BS.

Just like the dangerous 100lb asian woman at costco holding the pizza cutter.

I bet the spouse/girlfriend is regretting calling the cops now.

That type of response to just a domestic dispute call? A little excessive don't you think?. WOW, he as a single firearm. What a threat to several(most likely dozens) of Trained Armed Officers. Lets also call in Swat, and a damn armored vehicle while were at it. Ridicules.

Welcome to the militarization of American Police.

Civil war is on the way. You can be sure about that. There are many well trained and well armed civilians out there ready to fight to defend the constitution.

1776!

Crunked Up FCPD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another botched and murderous police action by the
> FCPD, a bunch of keystone cops.
>
> Because its personnel spend 75% of their on-duty
> time attempting to ensnare drivers on their way to
> work edging 10 MPH over the speed limit in order
> to make up for lost time sitting in traffic, the
> FCPD has no real training or experience when it
> comes to ACTUAL troublesome police action.
>
> One shot and a kill. The victim: a man standing
> in his own doorway. It will take three months for
> the FCPD and the County Attorney to cook up a
> story, whitewash the investigation, and exonerate
> all involved. Where was the gun. Hey officers,
> we only need one left behind, not 23.


One shot with one hit is actually really good for a patrol cop.

Geography Stickler Wrote:
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> That is not West Springfield. It's at the
> southern end of what can be considered the
> Springfield area, almost Lorton.


You an idiot....its is the West Springfield police station area. There is no "almost Lorton" police station.

Does anybody have any real info on what really happened? Anybody witness it? I think 6X has the best info as it sounds it he was listening to the police radio on his scanner. The press release put out had so little information that the police would have been better off not putting out a press release at all.

So 6X....what did the radio say when the cops sent there? What were the cops saying before the guy got shot? Was the guy threatening to shoot his wife? shoot the police? Himself? what was being said?

look-I wasn't there. Neither were any of you. And I don't care about cops one way or the other. They, like the postman, serve a civil purpose. So be it.

But I'm not gonna rant about what they did, because I have no idea. Does the FCPD screw up? Of course they do. Every police dept does. I do know this, if the SWAT team was there, with a freaking tank I'm guessing this dipshit was probably going nuts inside, seeing as how it takes a SWAT team hours to mobilize, not seconds. I also know if the cops surround your house and you are stupid enough to answer the door with a gun in your hand, you are gonna get shot. People who just scream police brutality without actually knowing what happened are just people who hate cops because of their own reasons, usually involving them being arrested for doing something stupid.

You don't like FCPD? Fine, move somewhere else. Don't like cops at all? Move to Afghanistan. But honestly you just have zero credibility when you start talking about police states and police brutality when you don't have a damn clue what actually went down. View is pretty clear from the couch I guess.

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anybody have any real info on what really
> happened? Anybody witness it? I think 6X has the
> best info as it sounds it he was listening to the
> police radio on his scanner. The press release put
> out had so little information that the police
> would have been better off not putting out a press
> release at all.
>
> So 6X....what did the radio say when the cops sent
> there? What were the cops saying before the guy
> got shot? Was the guy threatening to shoot his
> wife? shoot the police? Himself? what was being
> said?


I'm sorry I don't have all the info I did not have the scanner on. I turned it on after he was shot. The cops said he was holding something in his hand pointed down. They think it was a gun 357. He then grabed his side as he was shot and went back inside and closed the door and died.

I used to live in a townhouse community off of the parkway near Rolling Road.

About 3 years ago, a neighbor several houses away was having some sort of mental breakdown.

The cops were called and I am not kidding --they sent the SWAT team in. We are talking full gear, commandos, like we would see when we invade Syria next week.

The old guy could not have been less physically threatening-no weapon. He ended up in the back yard of his house which backs up to woods-so he was behind the houses. The SWAT guys tackled the guy--I am shocked he wasn't killed just by the sheer force.

My point is this, I saw first hand how nutty these FCPD guys are.

Go FOIA the times the chopper is called out and for the stupid reasons. Car thefts, kids breaking into schools.

THEY HAVE TOO MANY EXPENSIVE TOYS provided by the taxpayers and feel compelled to use them.

THEY HAVE ZERO...repeat ZERO common sense.

assumptions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We don't know all the facts associated with this
> case. To accuse anyone of murder without knowing
> the barest of facts, and calling it "police
> brutality" is completely ridiculous. How would
> you like it if someone charged you with murder
> based on the same lack of evidence that was
> presented in the online articles?


Its up to the cops to justify the use of force. In cases when it was justified its blatently obvious: He had a gun, there were hostages, he was threatening people with a weapon ect.

Hes the problem with the entire incident. BY THEIR OWN REPORTS the guy was killed when a cop shot a bullet into the house. They werent making entry, there was no exchange of gun fire, no one in danger, the cop just decided to take a shot at the guy and kill him and did.

It really is as simple as he fired a shot into the house for no reason and it killed the guy. That makes you a murderer. No lucky for the cop he works for FCPD so he wont even get suspended and theres a better chance of the Nationals Redskins and Capitals all having undefeated seasons in the same year through the championship than there is of him ever facing charges.

This reminds me of the time the cops shot and killed that girl that was eating potatoe chips because she had her hand in the bag and they could not see it.
Attachments:

Posted by: OverseaObserver ()
Date: August 30, 2013 02:34PM

Civil war is on the way. You can be sure about that. There are many well trained and well armed civilians out there ready to fight to defend the constitution.

1776!


Hey genius 1776 was the American Revolution not Civil War. Dumb shit.

...from someone who was about 150 yards away when he got shot. He had his hands in the air when the police were at his door before they shot him. The witness did not see the actual shooting but only heard it. The witness turned and saw the man turn away and close his door. The cops then told everyone in the neighborhood to go inside. The cavalry was called in. I feel really bad for the guy's family and his close neighbors. The neighborhood looked like a war zone last night.

I'm interested to hear if he was in fact holding a gun. I fear we may never know for sure. Either way it's a horrible situation for all involved.

What I've heard... Wrote:
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> I'm interested to hear if he was in fact holding a
> gun. I fear we may never know for sure. Either way
> it's a horrible situation for all involved.


I feel like they would have immediately released that fact if he was since that would justify it. Generally the longer it takes for the explanation the more likely a cover up is going on.

Even then it wouldnt make sense to fire a single shot and then go back and wait. More than 1 shot would have been fired and they would have moved in when they saw him go down.

This reeks of his gun going off by accident (which theres no excuse for) or he just felt like doing it and it seemed like a good idea at the time to take a shot at him (again no excuse).

Well aware of that, buddy. However, what is coming will be categorized as a civil war. Through which, we shall achieve what was achieved in 1776. Didn't get the gist of what i was saying.



Dumb shit.

I think you may be correct about the cop's gun going off on accident. I hate to speculate but this incident hits close to home. My further speculation is that the cop who shot him went to St. Raymond's shortly afterward to either pray or confess. I listened to the scanner app on my way home and heard one asking what the name of that church was. Pure speculation though.

History Lesson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Posted by: OverseaObserver ()
> Date: August 30, 2013 02:34PM
>
> Civil war is on the way. You can be sure about
> that. There are many well trained and well armed
> civilians out there ready to fight to defend the
> constitution.
>
> 1776!
>
>
> Hey genius 1776 was the American Revolution not
> Civil War. Dumb shit.


Well aware of that, buddy. However, what is coming will be categorized as a civil war. Through which, we shall achieve what was achieved in 1776. Didn't get the gist of what i was saying.



Dumb shit.

OverseaObserver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> History Lesson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Posted by: OverseaObserver ()
> > Date: August 30, 2013 02:34PM
> >
> > Civil war is on the way. You can be sure about
> > that. There are many well trained and well
> armed
> > civilians out there ready to fight to defend
> the
> > constitution.
> >
> > 1776!
> >
> >
> > Hey genius 1776 was the American Revolution not
> > Civil War. Dumb shit.
>
>
> Well aware of that, buddy. However, what is coming
> will be categorized as a civil war. Through which,
> we shall achieve what was achieved in 1776. Didn't
> get the gist of what i was saying.
>
>
>
> Dumb shit.


What is coming in actuality, is the mixture of the two. Plus WW3 going on at the same time.

What I've heard... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you may be correct about the cop's gun
> going off on accident. I hate to speculate but
> this incident hits close to home. My further
> speculation is that the cop who shot him went to
> St. Raymond's shortly afterward to either pray or
> confess. I listened to the scanner app on my way
> home and heard one asking what the name of that
> church was. Pure speculation though.


Im honestly not sure what would be worse an accidental shooting or if he did just randomly decide to take a shot.

A single shot though has accident written all over it. The only time you hear about single shot police shootings are when a sniper does it. The lack of immediate information though is a tell tale sign something went wrong or someone acted inappropriately.

Assuming it was an accident he needs to lose his badge at the very least. Anyone else would be in jail for years if they accidentally killed someone.

Someone above mentioned to wait and see what the DA would do since the last time the cop was actually fired, but they only did that because the Feds were threatening an investigation of their own. FCPD had all intention of leaving him on duty until the Feds threatened involvement, hence it was many months later they acted. A Federal investigation would have ended in charges and likely meant that they would have looked into past shootings as well for cover ups. If the Feds stay out of it expect nothing to happen other than a slap on the wrist.

Crunked Up FCPD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another botched and murderous police action by the
> FCPD, a bunch of keystone cops.
>
> Because its personnel spend 75% of their on-duty
> time attempting to ensnare drivers on their way to
> work edging 10 MPH over the speed limit in order
> to make up for lost time sitting in traffic, the
> FCPD has no real training or experience when it
> comes to ACTUAL troublesome police action.
>
> One shot and a kill. The victim: a man standing
> in his own doorway. It will take three months for
> the FCPD and the County Attorney to cook up a
> story, whitewash the investigation, and exonerate
> all involved. Where was the gun. Hey officers,
> we only need one left behind, not 23.

Police aren't perfect, and FCPD does have some officers that are less than exemplary. However, when you compare them to other departments of the same size, you'll realize they are far from "the Keystone Cops." I'd trust them a lot more, than some local yokel out in the middle of nowhere, or one of the batshit crazy NYPD or LAPD folks.

Officer Involved Shooting in Springfield Area
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/news-releases/2013/082913oispebblebrook.htm

Fairfax County Police Department
Public Information Office
4100 Chain Bridge Road, Fairfax, Va. 22030
703-246-2253. TTY 703-204-2264. Fax 703-246-4253
FCPD-PIO@fairfaxcounty.gov
www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police
News Release: E132412019/(7)
August 29, 2013


Officer Involved Shooting in Springfield Area

West Springfield Police District - Police are investigating an officer involved shooting that occurred this afternoon. Around 2:40 p.m. officers responded to a domestic dispute in the 7900 block of Pebble Brook Court involving a man whom the complainant advised was armed with a firearm. Upon arrival of police, several officers encountered the complainant outside the residence. The officers conducted negotiations with the man at the front door of the residence and they attempted to have him come out of the home peacefully. During the negotiations a patrol officer fired a single shot that struck the man. The man then barricaded himself inside the residence.

For the purpose of rendering aid, the police hostage rescue vehicle was utilized to allow a safe approach and entry into the residence. Once inside, tactical officers found the man deceased.

The decedent has been identified as 46-year-old John Geer. The officer involved was placed on routine administrative leave while the investigation continues.

All information provided in this release is based on preliminary investigation and may be subject to revision as the investigation continues.



###


To request this information in an alternate format, call the Public Information Office at 703.246.2253. TTY 703-204-2264

Tough One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Police aren't perfect, and FCPD does have some
> officers that are less than exemplary. However,
> when you compare them to other departments of the
> same size, you'll realize they are far from "the
> Keystone Cops." I'd trust them a lot more, than
> some local yokel out in the middle of nowhere, or
> one of the batshit crazy NYPD or LAPD folks.

LAPD and NYPD actually have real crime they constantly deal with. That said they also suffer from the same mentality that FCPD does in the sense that once you have the badge youre untouchable so they never weed out the bad cops and have a militaristic view of their job. At least with them though you can understand how they got to that point, how FCPD did in a low crime area is a completely different guess.

The local "yokel" is far less likely to view his role as a military occupier and have the us vs them mentality the bigger departments do. They of course will also have their share of bad cops but compared to this area they generally arent out trying to make everyone a criminal.

FCPD arent keystone cops and there are a lot of good ones, but as a whole theyre far closer to the keystone cops than the ultra professional elite organization they think they are.

A while ago the FCPD pounded on more door in the wee hours of the morning, woke me up, and forcefully demanded to search the house. When I asked if they had a warrant, and they said they did not, I told them they could not enter. I suppose I should be glad they did not kill me.

Getting back to this thread, if this was an accidental shooting, at some point the citizens of Fairfax will have to determine how frequently they will accept having the police kill someone who is not a threat. Such killings have happened before in Fairfax. If it happened again, what frequency is acceptable? One police caused death every 5 years? 10? 20?

Here's a suggestion: drive the number of deaths to zero by eliminating the root cause, the militarization of the police. Turn them from an occupying force to people who protect and serve.

Policy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Getting back to this thread, if this was an
> accidental shooting, at some point the citizens of
> Fairfax will have to determine how frequently they
> will accept having the police kill someone who is
> not a threat. Such killings have happened before
> in Fairfax. If it happened again, what frequency
> is acceptable? One police caused death every 5
> years? 10? 20?

How about we start using the same standard that everyone is held accountable too. A police caused death is acceptable as long as its necessary. The frequency is irrelevant only the justification matters. If they have to shoot and kill someone every week so be it, but an accidental death/unjustified shooting is never acceptable.

Frankly only getting fired is getting off easy, anyone else would be in jail for years. Its sad that we hold the military to a higher use of force standard than we do the police.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2013 10:39PM by chuckhoffmann.

I am wondering if it was a regular officer who shot the man or was it the SWAT team, or is the SWAT unit there to enter later?

If it was SWAT my guess it would be a sniper shot and that would be if the man had a weapon training it out the window or door on police, if not then anything goes.

Anyone watched the homemade/cell phone footage the media is playing? I can't watch it, because my computer is acting up.

chuckhoffmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The only FCPD officer ever fired for being
> involved in a fatal shooting was David Scott
> Ziants, who shot David Masters on November 13,
> 2009, and that took an 18 month investigation to
> resolve.

The only reason he was even fired was because the FEDs threatened to launch their own investigation. FCPD was going to do nothing and leave him on duty but with the threat of the FED investigation they fired him. They know the FEDs investigation would have ended in criminal charges and would have looked at past shootings for the systematic cover up we all know they engage in.

Essentially they just fired him to save the department the massive embarrassment and firings that would have resulted. You could literally make a career as a lawyer just representing people wrongfully killed/shot by FCPD. Its so bad even Forbes ran an article about how no FCPD officer has ever been charged for a murder in an unjustified shooting.

> No FCPD officer has ever been criminally charged
> for an on-duty shooting, even in cases where the
> person shot was found to be unarmed or was a
> bystander.

Thats also a huge problem. They have no shortage of wrongful shootings and have paid out 10s of millions over the years yet no one is ever held accountable and often times they go on to get promotions.

Theres absolutely no accountability for their actions making them above the law. Thats not how it should be. If you wrongfully kill someone the very minimal thing that needs to happen is you get fired and thank god you arent spending the next few years if not decades of your life in jail.

They should have the same standards everyone else has. If the shootings justified theres nothing to worry about. If youre the type to be trigger happy or accidentally shoot a weapon you need to find a new line of work and depending on the individual circumstances need to spend some time behind bars.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2013 10:40PM by chuckhoffmann.

You're mostly a bunch of fucking gossip monger vultures! The "estranged girlfriend" called 911 when she arrived home from work and daw the dude throwing all her shit on the front lawn. He was violently, dangerously drunk. She did not "conveniently" let the police know he had weapons;it's a standard question the dispatcher asks on a 911 call of this nature. Get it straight or don't spew shit you fucking morond

Nope sorry. Dude was 'old dominion' whiter than white

Who the hell can you trust anymore- this world has gone just completely mad.This hits too freaking close to home to me, wait- Springfield IS my hometown of 42 yrs now. I am not sure of ALL complete details, but excuse me if there was a 911 call made in report and Mr. John Greer was in his home-alone, refused entrance into the home due to no warrant or cause (he was alone)-showed no just cause to be a threat to on scene officers- Excuse me but this cop should go DOWN, with no lessened charges bared and yes, absolutely - get the death penalty in Murder in the first degree w/no trial and no time delayed. No excuse- or public safety defense. he chose his profession in a act of duty to serve citizens- of all dispositions and rights as human beings. Instead, took law into his own hands and killed this man. Never mind the soured relationship/domestic dispute. Let us not forget, this man was a father. For the record 1/3 persons suffer from some form of mental depression. It should have been treated as such, with the fullest of safety precautions, but not at the disposal of someone's LIFE!!!!!!!! I don't know this person, his family- but I am very saddened for his family, and what- at this point- points in every direction as a true lack of justice. Horrified at the cost of someone's life.

It's not about law books/laws/by laws- and the wading through, it's about facts and human compassion-professional acts in accordance of. With everything stacked currently in what has been released, AP and as this case is in under investigation-FED protection, staging etc etc etc-We all know what's to be expected in outcome- but it certainly won't bring Mr. John Geer back-Father/Son/Brother to his "family". Imagine for a minute-what pain they are experiencing in this presently & ahead.

What I've heard... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you may be correct about the cop's gun
> going off on accident. I hate to speculate but
> this incident hits close to home. My further
> speculation is that the cop who shot him went to
> St. Raymond's shortly afterward to either pray or
> confess. I listened to the scanner app on my way
> home and heard one asking what the name of that
> church was. Pure speculation though.


Complete made up bullshit

I knew a John Geer at Jeb Stuart HS in the early 80's, I wonder if it's the same guy. He would be around 46 now. RIP dude.

OverseaObserver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That type of response to just a domestic dispute
> call? A little excessive don't you think?. WOW, he
> as a single firearm. What a threat to several(most
> likely dozens) of Trained Armed Officers. Lets
> also call in Swat, and a damn armored vehicle
> while were at it. Ridicules.
>
> Welcome to the militarization of American Police.

We are missing the point here.

The point is look at that Armored vehicle. I saw it on the news report last night. It looks just like a tank. Is it a tank? I want more information....

The 2 seconds I saw that vehicle on the news it showed it has "Fairfax County" written on the front.

Yo, Yo, Yo! We got a tank. How bad ass is that? Look out Loudoun County. You better be nice to us. We got a tank and are not affraid to use it.

Does anyone have any information on our tank? I am really excitted about this.

Piece of shit thug motherfucker pussy fucking FAIRFUX county cop!

Let me guess, the fuckin trigger happy murderer that shot this man will be be found justified by the crooked piece of crap Commonwealth's Attorney.

Welcome to the United Police States of America!

"Do what we say or we'll execute you!"

This crap all started after 9/11 and the massive influx of federal money to local police departments. This money was used to purchase assault rifles and paramilitary training. Now, add to the mix the hiring of former military who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, many of whom have been in numerous firefights and are comfortable discharging weapons at people, and you've got quite a problem for the local civilian population.

And citizens are perfectly within their rights to not only own firearms but also to have a falling out with their spouse.
What, the police consider that an excuse to barge into the situation and shoot the man in cold blood.
If the dude was a danger to his girlfriend or someone else he would have already shot someone or brandished before the cops even knew there was a scorned bitch seeking retaliation by telling the cops "oh he's armed".
I as a citizen feel much more in danger with the cops behaving this way.
And you pussy ass citizens will just look the other way. Fuck That!
If the article in the Compost is inaccurate, then the Compost should be held criminally responsible for inciting such anger in me and a few other citizens who are fucking fed up with lies from the mainstream.
If the article in the Compost is accurate, then the Commonwealth's Attorney better find the cop criminally responsible for a minimum of murder in the second degree. If this is just pushed under the rug like other murders and murder cover-ups by The Fairfax County judicial system, then Fairfax county will become a dangerous place to live.
If reporters get away with inciting the public and/or the law breaks the law and gets away with it, then there is no law.
Get this SHIT RIGHT MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!

WTF, over? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to the United Police States of America!
>
> "Do what we say or we'll execute you!"
>
> This crap all started after 9/11 and the massive
> influx of federal money to local police
> departments. This money was used to purchase
> assault rifles and paramilitary training. Now, add
> to the mix the hiring of former military who
> served in Iraq and Afghanistan, many of whom have
> been in numerous firefights and are comfortable
> discharging weapons at people, and you've got
> quite a problem for the local civilian population.

I wont comment on whether the use of a gun was justified but I do agree with the police now being a paramilitary group. I see metro cops with full auto rifles and cringe when I think of the devastation they can cause with one burst of the rifle.
I wonder how much is really needed like a tank and is it justifiably used or used because it has to be justified.

Should the police ignore an armed man who threatens to use his firearms to kill people because he's angry at the world because of some failed boyfriend-girlfriend relationship?

Should they just walk away and just hope he calms down? What would the liability be if the police just walked away and the man decides to take his guns and rage outside?

The police HAS to take action in a volatile situation like this. First off, the man needed to be contained at the house and not allowed to leave else he becomes a public menace. He may be the nicest person in the world, but in a time of mental crisis, a person can feel like there is no point in living and may feel the need to lash out.

Secondly, the police need to talk the man down. Ask him to put away his firearms and voluntarily go with the police to get the psychiatric counseling that he desperately needs. From all accounts on the news, the police spent 40 minutes trying to negotiate a surrender. 40 minutes? That certainly does not sound like a "militant police department" that just looks for an excuse to shoot people.

Everyone seems to want to hang the police for doing their job. The officer or officers who fired the shot were put in a situation that no one wants to be in. Those officers have families. Those officers have friends. Those officers took an oath to protect the public. And yes, that same oath binds an officer into taking someone's life if his life or someone else's life is in danger.

The bottom line? A man was in mental crisis. The police are sent in to deal with the crisis. The man was armed with a firearm and put the officers in a situation where they had to choose between his life and their own as well as the public's safety. There are no winners.

Pray for the family of the deceased, but let us not forget to pray for the officer or officers that had to make that split second decision. That officer or officers will forever be traumatized and will second guess themselves for the rest of their lives.

Bottom Line Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should the police ignore an armed man who
> threatens to use his firearms to kill people
> because he's angry at the world because of some
> failed boyfriend-girlfriend relationship?
>
> Should they just walk away and just hope he calms
> down? What would the liability be if the police
> just walked away and the man decides to take his
> guns and rage outside?
>
> The police HAS to take action in a volatile
> situation like this. First off, the man needed to
> be contained at the house and not allowed to leave
> else he becomes a public menace. He may be the
> nicest person in the world, but in a time of
> mental crisis, a person can feel like there is no
> point in living and may feel the need to lash out.
>
>
> Secondly, the police need to talk the man down.
> Ask him to put away his firearms and voluntarily
> go with the police to get the psychiatric
> counseling that he desperately needs. From all
> accounts on the news, the police spent 40 minutes
> trying to negotiate a surrender. 40 minutes?
> That certainly does not sound like a "militant
> police department" that just looks for an excuse
> to shoot people.
>
> Everyone seems to want to hang the police for
> doing their job. The officer or officers who
> fired the shot were put in a situation that no one
> wants to be in. Those officers have families.
> Those officers have friends. Those officers took
> an oath to protect the public. And yes, that same
> oath binds an officer into taking someone's life
> if his life or someone else's life is in danger.
>
> The bottom line? A man was in mental crisis. The
> police are sent in to deal with the crisis. The
> man was armed with a firearm and put the officers
> in a situation where they had to choose between
> his life and their own as well as the public's
> safety. There are no winners.
>
> Pray for the family of the deceased, but let us
> not forget to pray for the officer or officers
> that had to make that split second decision. That
> officer or officers will forever be traumatized
> and will second guess themselves for the rest of
> their lives.


Where's the information that allows you to conclude that Geer threatened to harm anyone. let alone kill them, or even kill them with a firearm?


Where'd the information that allows you to conclude that Geer was armed?

Where's the information that Geer was armed when he was shot when standing in the threshold of his own home?

What law dictates that a person who is unarmed and in their own home and not breaking a law which requires that person to "surrender" to the police?

Finally, please cite the law that says a couple cannot argue with each other, and cite the law that gives cops the duty of resolving a couple's argument?

TIA

As long as we have dingbat citizens like "BOTTOM LINE" nothing will change and actually the gestapo police situation will get worse.
Thank you Colleen for bringing some sane reasoning to this horrible tragic murder (if the Compost reporter was accurate)

"Bottom Line" if your family member was on the receiving end of that bullet you would see how wrong you are!!!!

Bottom Line Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should the police ignore an armed man who
> threatens to use his firearms to kill people
> because he's angry at the world because of some
> failed boyfriend-girlfriend relationship?
>
> Should they just walk away and just hope he calms
> down? What would the liability be if the police
> just walked away and the man decides to take his
> guns and rage outside?
>
> The police HAS to take action in a volatile
> situation like this. First off, the man needed to
> be contained at the house and not allowed to leave
> else he becomes a public menace. He may be the
> nicest person in the world, but in a time of
> mental crisis, a person can feel like there is no
> point in living and may feel the need to lash out.
>
>
> Secondly, the police need to talk the man down.
> Ask him to put away his firearms and voluntarily
> go with the police to get the psychiatric
> counseling that he desperately needs. From all
> accounts on the news, the police spent 40 minutes
> trying to negotiate a surrender. 40 minutes?
> That certainly does not sound like a "militant
> police department" that just looks for an excuse
> to shoot people.
>
> Everyone seems to want to hang the police for
> doing their job. The officer or officers who
> fired the shot were put in a situation that no one
> wants to be in. Those officers have families.
> Those officers have friends. Those officers took
> an oath to protect the public. And yes, that same
> oath binds an officer into taking someone's life
> if his life or someone else's life is in danger.
>
> The bottom line? A man was in mental crisis. The
> police are sent in to deal with the crisis. The
> man was armed with a firearm and put the officers
> in a situation where they had to choose between
> his life and their own as well as the public's
> safety. There are no winners.
>
> Pray for the family of the deceased, but let us
> not forget to pray for the officer or officers
> that had to make that split second decision. That
> officer or officers will forever be traumatized
> and will second guess themselves for the rest of
> their lives.

You left out the part where a single foot patrol officer fired a single shot at the very start. It wasnt during a breaching situation where we brandished a gun, it wasnt a sniper shot, it was either a mistake or a because I felt like it shot. You dont engage someone by firing a single shot and backing off.

The officer should second guess themselves for it and they should do the honorable thing and give up their badge before it has to be taken from them for an unjustified shooting.

You can try and spin the situation all you want facts dont support your claims. If the guy was armed the first thing the police would have done is released how he was armed to justify the shooting, they didnt.

You may be okay with Judge Dredd type police, the rest of us arent.

Policy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A while ago the FCPD pounded on more door in the
> wee hours of the morning, woke me up, and
> forcefully demanded to search the house. When I
> asked if they had a warrant, and they said they
> did not, I told them they could not enter. I
> suppose I should be glad they did not kill me.
>
> Getting back to this thread, if this was an
> accidental shooting, at some point the citizens of
> Fairfax will have to determine how frequently they
> will accept having the police kill someone who is
> not a threat. Such killings have happened before
> in Fairfax. If it happened again, what frequency
> is acceptable? One police caused death every 5
> years? 10? 20?
>
> Here's a suggestion: drive the number of deaths to
> zero by eliminating the root cause, the
> militarization of the police. Turn them from an
> occupying force to people who protect and serve.


This is a bull shit story. I don't doubt that the police came to your house but why don't you tell the other half of the story about why they were there?

They didn't pick your house out of thousands to visit in the middle of the night.

Where's the information that he was armed and threatened to use that firearm? We all have to wait for it. The police has a "wonderful" policy (the sarcasm is intended) for never releasing information about an ongoing investigation. What typically happens in our society is that public opinion start to form prior to all the facts being known.

Is it wrong of me to assume the man was angry and armed based solely on the 911 radio traffic heard on the scanner? Maybe. But if so, it's just as wrong to assume that the man was UNARMED and was shot solely because he had an argument with his girlfriend. Which is the more likely scenario?

The bottom line is that some people are so willing to criticize based on beliefs rather than the facts. But that is human nature. We are impatient.

Botton Line Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where's the information that he was armed and
> threatened to use that firearm? We all have to
> wait for it. The police has a "wonderful" policy
> (the sarcasm is intended) for never releasing
> information about an ongoing investigation. What
> typically happens in our society is that public
> opinion start to form prior to all the facts being
> known.

Bullshit, they released information about taking down an armed suspect immediately. They only time theyre quiet is when something went wrong or they did something wrong. They arent chasing suspects everything is over.

> Is it wrong of me to assume the man was angry and
> armed based solely on the 911 radio traffic heard
> on the scanner? Maybe. But if so, it's just as
> wrong to assume that the man was UNARMED and was
> shot solely because he had an argument with his
> girlfriend. Which is the more likely scenario?

No the facts tell us that. Someone whose armed doesnt not shoot back after a shots fired at him. Police dont shoot a single shot from a handgun at an armed suspect ever. Taking the shot right off the bat wouldnt have been their first option for someone in their house alone.

> The bottom line is that some people are so willing
> to criticize based on beliefs rather than the
> facts. But that is human nature. We are
> impatient.


The bottom line is the facts dont line up with your account of it. Nor does the action of the police.

The real bottom line is for whatever reason youre trying to justify what they did which theres no justification for. A cop approached the house and either took a shot for no reason or accidentally took one. Either way his time with a badge should be done

Colleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bottom Line Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Should the police ignore an armed man who
> > threatens to use his firearms to kill people
> > because he's angry at the world because of some
> > failed boyfriend-girlfriend relationship?
> >
> > Should they just walk away and just hope he
> calms
> > down? What would the liability be if the
> police
> > just walked away and the man decides to take
> his
> > guns and rage outside?
> >
> > The police HAS to take action in a volatile
> > situation like this. First off, the man needed
> to
> > be contained at the house and not allowed to
> leave
> > else he becomes a public menace. He may be the
> > nicest person in the world, but in a time of
> > mental crisis, a person can feel like there is
> no
> > point in living and may feel the need to lash
> out.
> >
> >
> > Secondly, the police need to talk the man down.
>
> > Ask him to put away his firearms and
> voluntarily
> > go with the police to get the psychiatric
> > counseling that he desperately needs. From all
> > accounts on the news, the police spent 40
> minutes
> > trying to negotiate a surrender. 40 minutes?
> > That certainly does not sound like a "militant
> > police department" that just looks for an
> excuse
> > to shoot people.
> >
> > Everyone seems to want to hang the police for
> > doing their job. The officer or officers who
> > fired the shot were put in a situation that no
> one
> > wants to be in. Those officers have families.
> > Those officers have friends. Those officers
> took
> > an oath to protect the public. And yes, that
> same
> > oath binds an officer into taking someone's
> life
> > if his life or someone else's life is in
> danger.
> >
> > The bottom line? A man was in mental crisis.
> The
> > police are sent in to deal with the crisis.
> The
> > man was armed with a firearm and put the
> officers
> > in a situation where they had to choose between
> > his life and their own as well as the public's
> > safety. There are no winners.
> >
> > Pray for the family of the deceased, but let us
> > not forget to pray for the officer or officers
> > that had to make that split second decision.
> That
> > officer or officers will forever be traumatized
> > and will second guess themselves for the rest
> of
> > their lives.
>
>
> Where's the information that allows you to
> conclude that Geer threatened to harm anyone. let
> alone kill them, or even kill them with a
> firearm?
>
>
> Where'd the information that allows you to
> conclude that Geer was armed?
>
> Where's the information that Geer was armed when
> he was shot when standing in the threshold of his
> own home?
>
> What law dictates that a person who is unarmed and
> in their own home and not breaking a law which
> requires that person to "surrender" to the
> police?
>
> Finally, please cite the law that says a couple
> cannot argue with each other, and cite the law
> that gives cops the duty of resolving a couple's
> argument?
>
> TIA

Well since you're too lazy to look up the VA state code here they are...

§ 15.2-1704. Powers and duties of police force.

A. The police force of a locality is hereby invested with all the power and authority which formerly belonged to the office of constable at common law and is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime, the apprehension of criminals, the safeguard of life and property, the preservation of peace and the enforcement of state and local laws, regulations, and ordinances.

B. A police officer has no authority in civil matters, except (i) to execute and serve temporary detention and emergency custody orders and any other powers granted to law-enforcement officers in § 16.1-340, 16.1-340.1, 37.2-808, or 37.2-809, (ii) to serve an order of protection pursuant to §§ 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, and 16.1-279.1, (iii) to execute all warrants or summons as may be placed in his hands by any magistrate serving the locality and to make due return thereof, and (iv) to deliver, serve, execute, and enforce orders of isolation and quarantine issued pursuant to §§ 32.1-48.09, 32.1-48.012, and 32.1-48.014 and to deliver, serve, execute, and enforce an emergency custody order issued pursuant to § 32.1-48.02. A town police officer, after receiving training under subdivision 8 of § 9.1-102, may, with the concurrence of the local sheriff, also serve civil papers, and make return thereof, only when the town is the plaintiff and the defendant can be found within the corporate limits of the town.

(Code 1950, § 15-557; 1960, c. 167; 1962, c. 623, § 15.1-138; 1982, c. 38; 1984, c. 661; 1992, cc. 729, 742; 1995, c. 844; 1997, c. 587; 1998, c. 425; 1999, c. 495; 2007, c. 724; 2008, cc. 551, 691; 2010, cc. 778, 825.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

§ 18.2-479.1. Resisting arrest; fleeing from a law-enforcement officer; penalty.

A. Any person who intentionally prevents or attempts to prevent a law-enforcement officer from lawfully arresting him, with or without a warrant, is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. For purposes of this section, intentionally preventing or attempting to prevent a lawful arrest means fleeing from a law-enforcement officer when (i) the officer applies physical force to the person, or (ii) the officer communicates to the person that he is under arrest and (a) the officer has the legal authority and the immediate physical ability to place the person under arrest, and (b) a reasonable person who receives such communication knows or should know that he is not free to leave.

(2003, cc. 112, 805.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
use of lethal force...

§ 18.2-308. Carrying concealed weapons; exceptions; penalty.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature. It shall be an affirmative defense to a violation of clause (i) regarding a handgun, that a person had been issued, at the time of the offense, a valid concealed handgun permit.

B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.

C. Except as provided in subsection A of § 18.2-308.012, this section shall not apply to:

1. Any person while in his own place of business;

2. Any law-enforcement officer, wherever such law-enforcement officer may travel in the Commonwealth;

3. Any person who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

4. Any regularly enrolled member of a weapons collecting organization who is at, or going to or from, a bona fide weapons exhibition, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

6. Any person actually engaged in lawful hunting, as authorized by the Board of Game and Inland Fisheries, under inclement weather conditions necessitating temporary protection of his firearm from those conditions, provided that possession of a handgun while engaged in lawful hunting shall not be construed as hunting with a handgun if the person hunting is carrying a valid concealed handgun permit;

7. Any State Police officer retired from the Department of State Police, any officer retired from the Division of Capitol Police, any local law-enforcement officer, auxiliary police officer or animal control officer retired from a police department or sheriff's office within the Commonwealth, any special agent retired from the State Corporation Commission or the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, any conservation police officer retired from the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries, any Virginia Marine Police officer retired from the Law Enforcement Division of the Virginia Marine Resources Commission, any campus police officer appointed under Chapter 17 (§ 23-232 et seq.) of Title 23 retired from a campus police department, and any retired investigator of the security division of the State Lottery Department, other than an officer or agent terminated for cause, (i) with a service-related disability; (ii) following at least 15 years of service with any such law-enforcement agency, board or any combination thereof; (iii) who has reached 55 years of age; or (iv) who is on long-term leave from such law-enforcement agency or board due to a service-related injury, provided such officer carries with him written proof of consultation with and favorable review of the need to carry a concealed handgun issued by the chief law-enforcement officer of the last such agency from which the officer retired or the agency that employs the officer or, in the case of special agents, issued by the State Corporation Commission or the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board. A copy of the proof of consultation and favorable review shall be forwarded by the chief or the Board to the Department of State Police for entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network. The chief law-enforcement officer shall not without cause withhold such written proof if the retired law-enforcement officer otherwise meets the requirements of this section. An officer set forth in clause (iv) who receives written proof of consultation to carry a concealed handgun shall surrender such proof of consultation upon return to work or upon termination of employment with the law-enforcement agency. Notice of the surrender shall be forwarded to the Department of State Police for entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network. However, if such officer retires on disability because of the service-related injury, and would be eligible under clause (i) for written proof of consultation to carry a concealed handgun, he may retain the previously issued written proof of consultation. A retired law-enforcement officer who receives proof of consultation and favorable review pursuant to this subdivision is authorized to carry a concealed handgun in the same manner as a law-enforcement officer authorized to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to subdivision 2.

7a. Any person who is eligible for retirement with at least 20 years of service with a law-enforcement agency or board mentioned in subdivision 7 who has resigned in good standing from such law-enforcement agency or board to accept a position covered by a retirement system that is authorized under Title 51.1, provided such person carries with him written proof of consultation with and favorable review of the need to carry a concealed handgun issued by the chief law-enforcement officer of the agency from which he resigned or, in the case of special agents, issued by the State Corporation Commission or the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board. A copy of the proof of consultation and favorable review shall be forwarded by the chief, Board or Commission to the Department of State Police for entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network. The chief law-enforcement officer shall not without cause withhold such written proof if the law-enforcement officer otherwise meets the requirements of this section.

For purposes of applying the reciprocity provisions of § 18.2-308.014, any person granted the privilege to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to subdivision 7 or this subdivision, while carrying the proof of consultation and favorable review required, shall be deemed to have been issued a concealed handgun permit.

For purposes of complying with the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, a retired or resigned law-enforcement officer who receives proof of consultation and review pursuant to subdivision 7 or this subdivision shall have the opportunity to annually participate, at the retired or resigned law-enforcement officer's expense, in the same training and testing to carry firearms as is required of active law-enforcement officers in the Commonwealth. If such retired or resigned law-enforcement officer meets the training and qualification standards, the chief law-enforcement officer shall issue the retired or resigned officer certification, valid one year from the date of issuance, indicating that the retired or resigned officer has met the standards of the agency to carry a firearm;

8. Any State Police officer who is a member of the organized reserve forces of any of the armed services of the United States, national guard, or naval militia, while such officer is called to active military duty, provided such officer carries with him written proof of consultation with and favorable review of the need to carry a concealed handgun issued by the Superintendent of State Police. The proof of consultation and favorable review shall be valid as long as the officer is on active military duty and shall expire when the officer returns to active law-enforcement duty. The issuance of the proof of consultation and favorable review shall be entered into the Virginia Criminal Information Network. The Superintendent of State Police shall not without cause withhold such written proof if the officer is in good standing and is qualified to carry a weapon while on active law-enforcement duty.

For purposes of applying the reciprocity provisions of § 18.2-308.014, any person granted the privilege to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to this subdivision, while carrying the proof of consultation and favorable review required, shall be deemed to have been issued a concealed handgun permit;

9. Any attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth, wherever such attorney may travel in the Commonwealth;

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel; and

11. Any enrolled participant of a firearms training course who is at, or going to or from, a training location, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported.

D. This section shall also not apply to any of the following individuals while in the discharge of their official duties, or while in transit to or from such duties:

1. Carriers of the United States mail;

2. Officers or guards of any state correctional institution;

3. Conservators of the peace, except that an attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth may carry a concealed handgun pursuant to subdivision C 9. However, the following conservators of the peace shall not be permitted to carry a concealed handgun without obtaining a permit as provided in this article: (i) notaries public; (ii) registrars; (iii) drivers, operators or other persons in charge of any motor vehicle carrier of passengers for hire; or (iv) commissioners in chancery;

4. Noncustodial employees of the Department of Corrections designated to carry weapons by the Director of the Department of Corrections pursuant to § 53.1-29; and

5. Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-269; 1960, c. 358; 1964, c. 130; 1975, cc. 14, 15, 594; 1976, c. 302; 1978, c. 715; 1979, c. 642; 1980, c. 238; 1981, c. 376; 1982, cc. 71, 553; 1983, c. 529; 1984, cc. 360, 720; 1985, c. 427; 1986, cc. 57, 451, 625, 641; 1987, cc. 592, 707; 1988, cc. 359, 793; 1989, cc. 538, 542; 1990, cc. 640, 648, 825; 1991, c. 637; 1992, cc. 510, 705; 1993, cc. 748, 861; 1994, cc. 375, 697; 1995, c. 829; 1997, cc. 916, 921, 922; 1998, cc. 662, 670, 846, 847; 1999, cc. 628, 666, 679; 2001, cc. 25, 384, 657; 2002, cc. 699, 728, 826; 2004, cc. 355, 423, 462, 876, 885, 900, 901, 903, 905, 926, 995, 1012; 2005, cc. 344, 420, 424, 441, 839; 2006, c. 886; 2007, cc. 87, 272, 408, 455; 2008, cc. 69, 75, 80, 309, 464, 742; 2009, cc. 235, 779, 780; 2010, cc. 387, 433, 576, 586, 602, 677, 700, 709, 740, 741, 754, 841, 863; 2011, cc. 231, 234, 384, 410; 2012, cc. 132, 175, 291, 557, 776; 2013, cc. 559, 746.)

Cool.

Now, where is the information that Geer did any of that.

TIA.

Nice effort, though.

Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Botton Line Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Where's the information that he was armed and
> > threatened to use that firearm? We all have to
> > wait for it. The police has a "wonderful"
> policy
> > (the sarcasm is intended) for never releasing
> > information about an ongoing investigation.
> What
> > typically happens in our society is that public
> > opinion start to form prior to all the facts
> being
> > known.
>
> Bullshit, they released information about taking
> down an armed suspect immediately. They only time
> theyre quiet is when something went wrong or they
> did something wrong. They arent chasing suspects
> everything is over.
>
> > Is it wrong of me to assume the man was angry
> and
> > armed based solely on the 911 radio traffic
> heard
> > on the scanner? Maybe. But if so, it's just
> as
> > wrong to assume that the man was UNARMED and
> was
> > shot solely because he had an argument with his
> > girlfriend. Which is the more likely scenario?
>
> No the facts tell us that. Someone whose armed
> doesnt not shoot back after a shots fired at him.
> Police dont shoot a single shot from a handgun at
> an armed suspect ever. Taking the shot right off
> the bat wouldnt have been their first option for
> someone in their house alone.
>
> > The bottom line is that some people are so
> willing
> > to criticize based on beliefs rather than the
> > facts. But that is human nature. We are
> > impatient.
>
>
> The bottom line is the facts dont line up with
> your account of it. Nor does the action of the
> police.
>
> The real bottom line is for whatever reason youre
> trying to justify what they did which theres no
> justification for. A cop approached the house and
> either took a shot for no reason or accidentally
> took one. Either way his time with a badge should
> be done

Well remember, if the police think or feel they are being threatened they are protected under VA state code to respond with force. I don't think that's the case here though. Sounds more like one cop fire unnecessarily. I'll be interested in seeing what they turn up.

Someone wanted to know why the police have the legal right and obligation for taking this man in custody. Take a gander at 37.2-808. The police can take someone into immediate custody if the signs of mental crisis are present in front of them. This is not to say that the man was mentally ill. Only that he was in crisis and posed a threat to himself or society at the time.

For those who have already formed their opinion before the facts are layed out, I pity you because you live in a world of hate and mistrust. Stereotyping is stereotyping. Whether it's race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or, in this case, occupation. If you think you can do better, take the oath and pledge yourself to protect the public. Men and woman, much braver than me I must confess, took that pledge. And this is how we thank them?

If the officer or officers were in the wrong, they will suffer the consequences. The bottom line is that we SHOULD base our opinions after ALL the facts are known.

So bottom line, am I correct that your position is that if someone who the police deem to be in mental crisis does not come out of their home after 40 minutes, the police are justified in killing them?

Clarified Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Well remember, if the police think or feel they
> are being threatened they are protected under VA
> state code to respond with force. I don't think
> that's the case here though. Sounds more like one
> cop fire unnecessarily. I'll be interested in
> seeing what they turn up.


While thats true the single shot doesnt support that. If police are firing because they feel threatened or someones waiving a weapon at them its multiple shots especially for someone alone in a house not 1. The cop at Costco shot 5 times point blank, this guy shot once. The only time youll ever see single shots fired when police have decided to take someone out is from a sniper or an accident. He also wouldnt have been the only one shooting.

That will probably end up being the cover story though the video is going to tear that apart.

Bottom Line Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> For those who have already formed their opinion
> before the facts are layed out, I pity you because
> you live in a world of hate and mistrust.
> Stereotyping is stereotyping. Whether it's race,
> ethnicity, sexual orientation, or, in this case,
> occupation. If you think you can do better, take
> the oath and pledge yourself to protect the
> public. Men and woman, much braver than me I must
> confess, took that pledge. And this is how we
> thank them?

Get off the soap box its Fairfax County not inner city Detroit. Facts are already present, theres their report, the lack of information that would justify it, and a video. Someone kicking there girl friend out of the house isnt signs of mental distress. The shot was fired from outside the house when the guy was in the house alone. He wasnt out being a public threat.

> If the officer or officers were in the wrong, they
> will suffer the consequences. The bottom line is
> that we SHOULD base our opinions after ALL the
> facts are known.


No they wont its FCPD. They have NEVER in their entire history ever charged an officer in a wrongful death shooting. They only recently fired one because of threats of a Federal Investigation. Enough people like you think its okay for Police to gun down citizens for reason that nothing ever happens to them. Hell they dont even remove SWAT officers from the SWAT team when they wrongfully kill someone and pay out millions because of it.

You seem to be the only one having trouble with the facts making things up to justify it.

FYI its up to a cop to justify his shot not the other way around. Every shooting is assumed wrong until proven right hence the automatic suspensions and their weapons being taken. Its just that in FCPD its only a formality and youll be back on duty regardless of what they find

This reminds me of Die Hard 1. The FCPD has got themselves an RV taking down shitty Springfield townhouses and not the Nakatomi Center.


Anonymous-one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OverseaObserver Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That type of response to just a domestic
> dispute
> > call? A little excessive don't you think?. WOW,
> he
> > as a single firearm. What a threat to
> several(most
> > likely dozens) of Trained Armed Officers. Lets
> > also call in Swat, and a damn armored vehicle
> > while were at it. Ridicules.
> >
> > Welcome to the militarization of American
> Police.
>
> We are missing the point here.
>
> The point is look at that Armored vehicle. I saw
> it on the news report last night. It looks just
> like a tank. Is it a tank? I want more
> information....
>
> The 2 seconds I saw that vehicle on the news it
> showed it has "Fairfax County" written on the
> front.
>
> Yo, Yo, Yo! We got a tank. How bad ass is that?
> Look out Loudoun County. You better be nice to us.
> We got a tank and are not affraid to use it.
>
> Does anyone have any information on our tank? I am
> really excitted about this.

How many white people are the police going to kill, without repurcussions?..................the gambling family, Ashley McIntosh, and does anyone know if this was a white guy? Sounds like it.

Seargent Richard THIEL and his band of Merry Morons were in on this!
Thruout the region the local Sherriff /Police Dept . ' s are starting to hiring thementally disabled and letting them losse on patrol in the streets which is resulting in an entire labrynth of highly punishing effects to the average citizen! Its like some form, sort of revenge of the nerds thing being implemented to punish even more, the average tax paying citizens!

Bottom Line Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone wanted to know why the police have the
> legal right and obligation for taking this man in
> custody. Take a gander at 37.2-808. The police
> can take someone into immediate custody if the
> signs of mental crisis are present in front of
> them. This is not to say that the man was mentally
> ill. Only that he was in crisis and posed a
> threat to himself or society at the time.
>
> For those who have already formed their opinion
> before the facts are layed out, I pity you because
> you live in a world of hate and mistrust.
> Stereotyping is stereotyping. Whether it's race,
> ethnicity, sexual orientation, or, in this case,
> occupation. If you think you can do better, take
> the oath and pledge yourself to protect the
> public. Men and woman, much braver than me I must
> confess, took that pledge. And this is how we
> thank them?
>
> If the officer or officers were in the wrong, they
> will suffer the consequences. The bottom line is
> that we SHOULD base our opinions after ALL the
> facts are known.

Yes.

BottomLine- You are missing the point- there has been no proof of Geer being armed, the caller his common law wife- made the 911 call, who also happens to work for the DEA. Who by every sound of what has leaked out in the media-also abused in this case who she knew. Hello?!? A freakin' tank in a townhouse development in Fairfax Co.?!?18 police cars-k-9's -helicopters. The call to 911 was made indicating her partner was alone in the dwelling-again!!! Hello?!?

There are legal sworn statements this poor Man, was in no mental condition of threat. He was accepting the news of the relationship end/drunk.
Those guns more than likely were her's. Never mind this fact- there are ways/tactics where officers are trained to handle mental crisis case/domestic dispute based calls and killing someone who posed as no threat by, as we know it-was being armed here. Also Geer had no records of assault/threat behavior.Given media recorded and released to the public- there were several officers within close proximity to have humanely tasered Mr. John Geer. Obviously if they found to BE ABLE TO TALK TO MR JOHN GEER FOR 40-50 MINUTES, it speaks for itself he was cooperating enough for Fairfax County to have used better judgement, professional handling of/on this truly tragic loss. No life would have had to end by the person responsible, on the other end of this gun.


What exactly and why are you trying to justify-there is some kind of act cause for the loss of this Man's life- a Father/Son/Friend, a human being- a LIFE, much like each and every one of us?
A Man died due to the mis-use/conduct of law enforcement/law system in our community of Fairfax County.

BottomLine- in of itself is a bold self-righteous name to have picked. Much like your "weak" posts without validations.

Bottom Line Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Should they just walk away and just hope he calms
> down?

Yes.

Establish a perimeter and call in the negotiating team.

Agreed.

Par for the course for the Fourth-Reich Nazi SS (otherwise known as the Fairfax County Police Dept). Go look it up, no cop has EVER been convicted of wrongful death in the 73 year HISTORY of the FCPD. If you believe that is fair and just, you must already be goose-steppin' by now.

Trust me, GET OUT of Nova while you can and see how nice it is somewhere else. Fairfax County used to be great, now it is an overcrowded HELLPIT with a NAZI SS police force just dying to use their $300,000 "water cannon" to diperse a crowd that will never happen...

PATHETIC!!

Man would I like to see that cop have to check into the FCDC (jail) and be told that his prescription meds aren't coming, he has to sleep on a cold concrete slab and "no donuts, but heres your LOAF for dinner"....wouldn't that be sweet?


Of course it will never happen, Fairfax cops have carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they please and you can see why when you read the posts on here by all of these vindictive, redneck NAZIS.

You will reap what you sow, COUNT ON IT!!

Bottom Line Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone wanted to know why the police have the
> legal right and obligation for taking this man in
> custody. Take a gander at 37.2-808. The police
> can take someone into immediate custody if the
> signs of mental crisis are present in front of
> them. This is not to say that the man was mentally
> ill. Only that he was in crisis and posed a
> threat to himself or society at the time.

****I get it now. The cop had to MURDER him so he wasn't a threat to his own safety. Mission accomplished I guess.

Geez...

Bottom Line, don't listen to these a-holes. They are a bunch of hatemongers who hate the system, no matter what you say. What you are saying makes sense...IF the man had a gun in his hand and IF he pointed it at the police. Are there any witnesess out there that actually saw it happen? The news video didn't show the shooting. Probably too graphic. 6x mentioned he had a 357, but Geer had the gun pointed down? Did anyone see him lift up his arm? Did anyone hear what was said right before the shot? I'm looking for real witnesses that were there. Everyone else with a preconceived notion about "what really happened" without being there need to STFU.

Really the worst police department in the country full of wannabes mall cops. I pray there will be a FBI or justice dept investigation of the FCPD and they shut the fucker down.

I went to Jeb Stuart too. I was wondering if this is the same guy who graduated from there in 85.

I came to this site because I saw the article in the paper and wanted to see if there was any more local information, since I live in Springfield.

If I am following correctly, it sounds like there was a distraught possibly intoxicated man throwing his girlfriends stuff on the front lawn and she called 911. Certainly that is a problem/ domestic dispute. But things like this happen all the time unfortunately, and people can act like idiots especially when relationships and alcohol are involved. It is certainly normal to call the cops when things like this happen.

What concerns me is that a tank and helicopter showed up! Do we really think that is going to help the situation, or perhaps just maybe, it might make a mentally distraught person completely lose it. When things like this used to happen, you sent a couple squad cars and told the person to go inside and cool off. Maybe there was more involved due to the presence of firearms...I don't know.

But, still, honestly, a tank for a domestic? I really think it is time that Fairfax County reevaluate when they are using their equipment and in what situations. I can't believe more people aren't concerned about this.

Nothappyaboutthetank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I came to this site because I saw the article in
> the paper and wanted to see if there was any more
> local information, since I live in Springfield.
>
> If I am following correctly, it sounds like there
> was a distraught possibly intoxicated man throwing
> his girlfriends stuff on the front lawn and she
> called 911. Certainly that is a problem/ domestic
> dispute. But things like this happen all the time
> unfortunately, and people can act like idiots
> especially when relationships and alcohol are
> involved. It is certainly normal to call the cops
> when things like this happen.
>
> What concerns me is that a tank and helicopter
> showed up! Do we really think that is going to
> help the situation, or perhaps just maybe, it
> might make a mentally distraught person completely
> lose it. When things like this used to happen,
> you sent a couple squad cars and told the person
> to go inside and cool off. Maybe there was more
> involved due to the presence of firearms...I don't
> know.
>
> But, still, honestly, a tank for a domestic? I
> really think it is time that Fairfax County
> reevaluate when they are using their equipment and
> in what situations. I can't believe more people
> aren't concerned about this.

It's not a tank, its a tanker (see the picture above). It's an armored vehicle designed to protect the occupants (police) and used to storm reinforced structures. In this case, it may seem like overkill (pardon the pun), but here's the score... Us=1, Scumbags=0, so stop complaining.

I know the cops have a lot of latitude and there really is no need for proof of anything during these sorts of operations...that's for the trial, IF there is (or would have been) one.


But, there sure as HELL is a need for probable cause for the actions of the police. And, with the info out there right now, there is zero probable cause for their actions in this matter. One would think any probable cause for the cops' actions would be released in a press release to quell the concerns of other citizens...IF they had any probable cause, that is.

The single shot is strange as well. Usually in cop stand off situations, if there's a shot, it's followed by tons of other shots by the cops. That didn't happen. The cops didn't react to the shot...maybe because they knew it was coming...like a sniper.

All speculation, admittedly, but the current info out on the situation leaves for many questions that need answering.

For those who are complaining about folks jumping to conclusions against the cops, that's fine to be that way and I agree. I don't believe there is enough information to the public to CONCLUDE much of anything. There certainly is enough info to question a lot, though.

And, if the citizenry does not just question, but demands, the accountability of those who we entrust to protect (and serve) us, then we open ourselves up to errosion of and even a surrender our inherent civil rights.

Demanding accountability, especially accountability in life and death situations, is not just a right of the citizenry, it's a duty for those of us who value protection of civil rights.

Expect a multi-million dollar settlement of YOUR Taxpayer money for the out of control FCPD with the dude's family with zero admission of wrongdoing. Money that could have gone to better schools or lower taxes. Now they'll just be setting up more speed traps and issuing more parking tickets. Such Total BULLSHIT!!

Jdkkc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Expect a multi-million dollar settlement of YOUR
> Taxpayer money for the out of control FCPD with
> the dude's family with zero admission of
> wrongdoing. Money that could have gone to better
> schools or lower taxes. Now they'll just be
> setting up more speed traps and issuing more
> parking tickets. Such Total BULLSHIT!!


That would be the standard result of this yearly occurrence. Anytime they ask for money money on a ballot vote no, theyd have all the money they could ever want if they werent always paying out lawsuits for people theyve murdered or crashing helicopters because they never untied it.

adfadsfasdfasdf: ""US =1, Scumbags=0, so stop complaining."

_______

Thanks adfadsfasdfasdf.....you just provided the PERFECT example of the Nazi Redneck mentality that pervades Fairfax County: It's OK for a warrantless cop to murder you despite the fact that you have committed NO crime or even been charged with one. Also, if you read this thread you'll see that your "us" is about 3 people out of 100.

Here's hoping your house is mowed down by a police tank next....I'll be the one sitting there eating popcorn watching you bleed out.

@adfadsfasdfasdf: You are a unfortunate waste of perfectly good oyxgen...

The girlfriend was there! If the police overstepped their duties, she would have been all over the news telling everyone how f'ed up the police handled the situation. God, I can't believe I live in the same country with these paranoid conspiracy theorists. Guess I should have known. This IS the Fairfax Underground after all...

Another Police Shooting in Fairfax Co.(West Springfield)
Posted by: Dana Montgomery ()
Date: September 01, 2013 03:39PM

The girlfriend was there! If the police overstepped their duties, she would have been all over the news telling everyone how f'ed up the police handled the situation
_____________

Yeah, that is *just* what her lawyer would advise her to do....wake up and pull your head out of your ass already...

Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarified Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Well remember, if the police think or feel they
> > are being threatened they are protected under
> VA
> > state code to respond with force. I don't think
> > that's the case here though. Sounds more like
> one
> > cop fire unnecessarily. I'll be interested in
> > seeing what they turn up.
>
>
> While thats true the single shot doesnt support
> that. If police are firing because they feel
> threatened or someones waiving a weapon at them
> its multiple shots especially for someone alone in
> a house not 1. The cop at Costco shot 5 times
> point blank, this guy shot once. The only time
> youll ever see single shots fired when police have
> decided to take someone out is from a sniper or an
> accident. He also wouldnt have been the only one
> shooting.
>
> That will probably end up being the cover story
> though the video is going to tear that apart.

The video was only shown on WRC, and only the most exciting extracts, which aren't really that exciting. (A couple of cops behind a tree, another cop pointing his gun at Geer.)

The person who took the video probably offered to sell it to WRC, but most news organizations are surprisingly low rent and since the video didn't contain a "weenie" (the guy with a gun in his hand or the guy actually being shot by the cop) they declined the purchase.

How WRC got the footage they did use is an old con. The guy offered to sell WRC the video, and the reporter or producer said "we need to show this to people back at the station before we can make an offer" so the guy stupidly allowed their cameraman to record it off the screen. WRC then used that recording in their report, and didn't have to pay the guy a dime.

Even when TV stations do pay for footage, they're ridiculously tight about it. The best you can hope for is maybe a few hundred bucks.

FreedomLvr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> adfadsfasdfasdf: ""US =1, Scumbags=0, so stop
> complaining."
>
> _______
>
> Thanks adfadsfasdfasdf.....you just provided the
> PERFECT example of the Nazi Redneck mentality that
> pervades Fairfax County: It's OK for a
> warrantless cop to murder you despite the fact
> that you have committed NO crime or even been
> charged with one. Also, if you read this thread
> you'll see that your "us" is about 3 people out of
> 100.
>
> Here's hoping your house is mowed down by a police
> tank next....I'll be the one sitting there eating
> popcorn watching you bleed out.
>
> @adfadsfasdfasdf: You are a unfortunate waste of
> perfectly good oyxgen...

So sad, yet another liberal rooting for the bad guys, but will complain in another thread about how the police aren't doing much for the community. I hope a black or hispanic crook ass rapes you in front of your family.

DMblows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, that is *just* what her lawyer would advise
> her to do....wake up and pull your head out of
> your ass already...

Doubt it, a lawyer would usually try to get public opinion on her side for an incident as public as this. In the weeks that follow, I can imagine her issuing some sort of statement.

This was the only "John Geer" in the arrest/ticket search, nothing major, just traffic violations.

"GEER ","JOHN ","B","040"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","01/05/2006","NO/STATE INSPECTION "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","040"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","01/08/2005","DRIVE-OL RVKD/SUSP "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","040"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","07/28/2006","EXPIRED STATE REGISTRATION "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","040"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","09/26/2006","OPERATE UNLICENSED VEHICLE "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","041"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","05/01/2007","NO/STATE INSPECTION "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","041"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","05/01/2007","OPERATE UNLICENSED VEHICLE "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","042"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","07/28/2008","EXPIRED STATE LIC PLATE "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","042"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","07/28/2008","FAIL WEAR SAFETY BELT "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","042"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","07/28/2008","NO/STATE INSPECTION "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","043"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","08/03/2009","DRIVE-OL RVKD/SUSP "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","043"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","08/03/2009","FAIL OBEY HWY SIGN "
"GEER ","JOHN ","B","043"," 7907","PEBBLEBROOK ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","08/03/2009","FAIL WEAR SAFETY BELT "

adfadsfasdfasdf: "So sad, yet another liberal rooting for the bad guys"
________________

Hey prick...I am a libertarian conservative, not a liberal. That means I QUESTION authority from time to time. You really ought to try it sometime you sorry piece of excrement!! 8-)

*******************************


adfadsfasdfasdf: I hope a black or hispanic crook ass rapes you in front of your family.
______________

Sounds like YOU are the one rooting for the bad guys, not me. And you are a redneck bigot, too, congrats!! 8-)

The "witness" saw everything including the shot fired which makes your account wrong putting you in the same category as the rest of those posting. Those who know very little about what they are talking about, know nothing about John, and nothing about the circumstances . John's hands were up because they were on top of the storm door. He was shot in the chest while slowly lowering his hands. He had no weapon in his possession and there was no weapon within his reach. This was an execution of a good man who, at that point, had broken no law. A depressed man that refused to come out of his house and refused to let police in without cause.

What I've heard... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...from someone who was about 150 yards away when
> he got shot. He had his hands in the air when the
> police were at his door before they shot him. The
> witness did not see the actual shooting but only
> heard it. The witness turned and saw the man turn
> away and close his door. The cops then told
> everyone in the neighborhood to go inside. The
> cavalry was called in. I feel really bad for the
> guy's family and his close neighbors. The
> neighborhood looked like a war zone last night.
>
> I'm interested to hear if he was in fact holding a
> gun. I fear we may never know for sure. Either way
> it's a horrible situation for all involved.

YOU WANT THE FACTS ?

The "witness" saw everything including the shot fired, which makes your account wrong putting you in the same category as the rest of those posting. Those who know very little about what they are talking about, know nothing about John, and nothing about the circumstances. John's hands were up because they were on top of the storm door. He was shot in the chest while slowly lowering his hands. His palms were against the screen as he lowered his hands. He had no weapon in his possession and there was no weapon within his reach. This was an execution of a good man who, at that point, had broken no law. A depressed man that refused to come out of his house and refused to let police in without cause.

Let me address some other points. He was not violent. He was not being evicted. His girlfriend is not a DEA agent. There are NO police reports that have stated he had something in his hand. HIS HANDS WERE CLEARLY EMPTY ! He owned guns but was not holding or displaying a weapon of any kind. The closest weapon was a holstered revolver laying at the base of the stairs in the house well out of his immediate reach and not in the view of an police officers.

In my opinion, there are to many facts already known that will prevent this from being labeled as justified or allowing it to be swept under the rug.

Stay tuned !

GoFugYourself Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> adfadsfasdfasdf: "So sad, yet another liberal
> rooting for the bad guys"
> ________________
>
> Hey prick...I am a libertarian conservative, not a
> liberal. That means I QUESTION authority from
> time to time. You really ought to try it sometime
> you sorry piece of excrement!! 8-)
>
> *******************************
>
>
> adfadsfasdfasdf: I hope a black or hispanic crook
> ass rapes you in front of your family.
> ______________
>
> Sounds like YOU are the one rooting for the bad
> guys, not me. And you are a redneck bigot, too,
> congrats!! 8-)

libertarian conservative = wasted vote and a pointless party.

Wow,that's a lot of tickets. Shows that he thumbs his nose at even simple laws.

adfadsfasdfasdf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So sad, yet another liberal rooting for the bad
> guys, but will complain in another thread about
> how the police aren't doing much for the
> community. I hope a black or hispanic crook ass
> rapes you in front of your family.


Your on a small island on this one. Liberals are more likely to be fine with an over reaching over aggressive government.

No one has a problem with cops shooting people that needed to be shot. Thats not the case here. It wasnt a raid on a drug house, it wasnt taking down the mob or gangs, it was just a guy in his house who got killed in a way that makes 0 tactical sense.

Trying to lump it together with all crime is the same race baiting crap the Al Sharptons of the world do. Every situation is different and independent of the others. If anything I would question your true conservationism if youre advocating never questioning the actions of police, especially a department with a long history of this.

Yawn....are you all still making up what could be or could have been based upon the lack of information from the police? Its easy...FOIA the 911 call and the computer traffic. I think that would provide a lot of details that are missing from here.

But hell... I was not there but dam if the po po didn't kill another black man.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2013 10:42PM by chuckhoffmann.

adfadsfasdfasdf: "libertarian conservative = wasted vote and a pointless party."

___________________

Hey prick....you're missing my point, you were DEAD wrong about my political leanings just like you are DEAD wrong about this case.

Give up already....geez, I'm actually starting to feel a little sorry for you....

TheDickWon'tQuit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> adfadsfasdfasdf: "libertarian conservative =
> wasted vote and a pointless party."
>
> ___________________
>
> Hey prick....you're missing my point, you were
> DEAD wrong about my political leanings just like
> you are DEAD wrong about this case.
>
> Give up already....geez, I'm actually starting to
> feel a little sorry for you....

Just as the suspect was "Dead Wrong" about not cooperating with the police? Hey, I love that Libertarian president, oh wait, there never has been one. Too bad, so sad, you must be a Redskins fan too.

Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> adfadsfasdfasdf Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > So sad, yet another liberal rooting for the bad
> > guys, but will complain in another thread about
> > how the police aren't doing much for the
> > community. I hope a black or hispanic crook ass
> > rapes you in front of your family.
>
>
> Your on a small island on this one. Liberals are
> more likely to be fine with an over reaching over
> aggressive government.
>
> No one has a problem with cops shooting people
> that needed to be shot. Thats not the case here.
> It wasnt a raid on a drug house, it wasnt taking
> down the mob or gangs, it was just a guy in his
> house who got killed in a way that makes 0
> tactical sense.
>
> Trying to lump it together with all crime is the
> same race baiting crap the Al Sharptons of the
> world do. Every situation is different and
> independent of the others. If anything I would
> question your true conservationism if youre
> advocating never questioning the actions of
> police, especially a department with a long
> history of this.

You're right on this one, Liberals will do nothing about an overeaching government. As for the police, I applaud them for taking out the suspect with just one shot, normally 5 or 6 of them open up with about 70 rounds. Thanks for saving the tax payers thousands of dollars, instead of taking care of some crack head negro that would have been a burden on the system.

Officer Involved Shooting in Springfield Area
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/news-releases/2013/082913oispebblebrook.htm

Fairfax County Police Department
Public Information Office
4100 Chain Bridge Road, Fairfax, Va. 22030
703-246-2253. TTY 703-204-2264. Fax 703-246-4253
FCPD-PIO@fairfaxcounty.gov
www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police
News Release: E132412019/(7)
August 29, 2013

Officer Involved Shooting in Springfield Area

West Springfield Police District - Police are investigating an officer involved shooting that occurred this afternoon. Around 2:40 p.m. officers responded to a domestic dispute in the 7900 block of Pebble Brook Court involving a man whom the complainant advised was armed with a firearm. Upon arrival of police, several officers encountered the complainant outside the residence. The officers conducted negotiations with the man at the front door of the residence and they attempted to have him come out of the home peacefully. During the negotiations a patrol officer fired a single shot that struck the man. The man then barricaded himself inside the residence.

For the purpose of rendering aid, the police hostage rescue vehicle was utilized to allow a safe approach and entry into the residence. Once inside, tactical officers found the man deceased.

The decedent has been identified as 46-year-old John Geer. The officer involved was placed on routine administrative leave while the investigation continues.

All information provided in this release is based on preliminary investigation and may be subject to revision as the investigation continues.

###

To request this information in an alternate format, call the Public Information Office at 703.246.2253. TTY 703-204-2264

I speak from a point of view of someone that lives in Fairfax County, have called 911 Fairfax county police for domestic violence on more than several occasions. I have a daughter with the man germane to my case and a 26 year relationship with him. I lived in fear for many years and suffered many beating which went unreported. In my case when calling 911 the officers came to the residence, spoke to my spouse who was too barricaded himself in the house (the only difference he did NOT open the door.) When the police asked me if there were weapons, I honestly said, I don't know, there were knives I knew of from the kitchen. After several minutes of speaking with my spouse barricaded in the house, the officers suggested I find somewhere else to be for the duration. About 3 weeks went by and the police arrested my spouse outside, finally mowing the grass. I also speak from a perspective of knowing John and the family and I believe the police, Fairfax police, could have handled this situation much differently and not escalated this event for a totally different outcome, one in which could have saved the life of John. The same highly trained policeman that came to my door and helped me a few years ago was not the same trained police man that visited John's door. I believe there could have been a different protocol or outcome in this situation. I do hope the investigation is forth right and honest for all the loved ones involved.

Hard to believe someone had to die after looking at the video. We don't know what was said, but it sure like the officer with the gun should have been able to tell whether the man was armed or not. And even if he was, unless there was some aggressive action why not shot teargas in the house or something more passive, rather than shooting him and then breaking down the door.

Best not to judge too harshly either way at this point until more is known, but the police seem to be a little over the top in this sort of situation recently. Perhaps too much government money giving them too many toys they want to play with.

The timeline also raises questions. Police arrive at about 2:40. They say they spend about 40-50 minuted negotiating with him before the shooting occurs. They "ram" into the house at about 4:30 (they took what looks like a tank and busted open the front of the house), which means about an hour passed between the shooting and entering the house.

One sure hopes that Geer was killed instantly instead of bleeding to death during the hour when they planned and executed a military style assault.

FreedomLvr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> adfadsfasdfasdf: ""US =1, Scumbags=0, so stop
> complaining."
>
> _______
>
> Thanks adfadsfasdfasdf.....you just provided the
> PERFECT example of the Nazi Redneck mentality that
> pervades Fairfax County: It's OK for a
> warrantless cop to murder you despite the fact
> that you have committed NO crime or even been
> charged with one. Also, if you read this thread
> you'll see that your "us" is about 3 people out of
> 100.
>
> Here's hoping your house is mowed down by a police
> tank next....I'll be the one sitting there eating
> popcorn watching you bleed out.
>

Man I love all the Monday morning quarter backs. First of all more police officers are killed on domestic violence/disturbance calls than any other type. Second, (by limited information released to this point) when a suspect lowers his hand 6 inches, what do you think police officers are going to do?!?! They are trained to shoot to kill, not wound, in order to protect themselves. An officer isn't going to be able to tell if a suspect has a concealed weapon under his clothes. Not to mention when the suspect retreated back into his home and closed the door, they have know way of knowing of the door was boobytrapped. Or of the suspect was waiting to shoot an officer that comes thru the door. Hence why SWAT Team made a tactical entry. You all think you can do better, train for 2 years, strap on the uniform and badge and see how you would do.

FreedomLvr you are completed retarded.

NBC4 has a video that was taken by a neighbor...

Man Fatally Shot During Fairfax Co. Standoff ID'd
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Shots-Fired-at-Springfield-Va-Home-221693811.html

Police have released the name of the man killed during a barricade situation in Springfield, Va. Thursday.

Fairfax County Police were dispatched to the 7900 block of Pebble Brook Court around 2:30 p.m. for a domestic disturbance and a possibly armed individual.

In amateur video from the scene obtained exclusively by News4, the suspect is seen at the front door of his home while officers, K-9 units and SWAT team members surround the area.

"He refused to come outside and he would not allow officers inside," Fairfax County Police officer Bud Walker said.

The man, identified as 46-year-old John Geer, negotiated with police for about 40 minutes before a patrol officer fired a single shot into the home and struck Geer.

Geer then barricaded himself inside the home.

In order to help him, the home's front door was knocked in by a police tanker, and SWAT team members made their way inside at approximately 5 p.m. Officials later confirmed the gunshot fired by police earlier in the afternoon had killed the suspect.

Erica Epps told News4 she has been neighbors with Geer for nine years.

"I feel really bad for the wife and children, we know the kids," Epps said. "[He seemed] like a good guy."

Police have not said why shots were fired into the home or what they found inside upon entry.

The patrol officer who fired the shot has been placed on administrative leave while an investigation is conducted.
Attachments:

Just so I'm clear. These things will get you killed by cops or cop wanna bes.

1. Looking suspicious
2. Sudden movements.
3. Shiny objects.
4. Someone calling the cops and saying you have a gun on your own property.

Dana Montgomery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The girlfriend was there! If the police
> overstepped their duties, she would have been all
> over the news telling everyone how f'ed up the
> police handled the situation. God, I can't
> believe I live in the same country with these
> paranoid conspiracy theorists. Guess I should
> have known. This IS the Fairfax Underground after
> all...

If his commonlaw wife was DEA agent, then most likely "there were guns in the house" referred to HER firearm and would've been unloaded as DEA agents are trained to do. Sigh this looks like a horrible over-reaction to situation where he was distraught at her leaving him but a threat only to himself. OMG and it's not like he had a hostage, so why do you call it "negotiated for xx minutes." so then he "moves his (empty) hands down about six inches" ... because they were tired? to open the door? but he's killed like he's a violent criminal? he's in his own house, NO Record of any violence, yet he's gunned down because he won't come outside or let police in, but wants to talk to them thru screen door? until they shoot him?! OMG.

"When officers arrived, they began negotiating with Geer to come out of the home, but he refused. Don Geer was too far away to hear the conversation, but he said that at some point, his son stood with empty hands resting near the top of a screen door while several officers were positioned on the front lawn with their guns drawn.

When John Geer slowly moved his hands down about six inches, an officer fired a shot, Don Geer said."

The Wall Street Journal ran an op-ed on the militarization of the police a few weeks ago. I recommend it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904.html?KEYWORDS=police+militarization

A few years ago in the Alexandria section of Fairfax, a neighbor called the police alleging that 5-7 teenagers were playing loud music and suspected that they were drinking beer (I know this because I saw the report on a laptop when the first two officers arrived). The police "sealed the perimeter" to prevent the kids from escaping. Within 15 minutes, there were at least 15 squad cars and at least 25 officers. The trunks to some of the cars were open to allow quick access to weapons. Parents began arriving when they received panicky phone calls from their children inside the house. The police refused to allow the parents to get their children and blocked the children from coming out to their parents. One asked what the probable cause was, and was threatened with arrest. After an hour and the police had secured their positions, two officers went on the porch and announced they smelled marijuana. No one else could detect that smell, and they were likely lying so they could break the door down. Parents were literally begging the police to tone it down, they were terrifying the kids and were creating a really dangerous situation. To say it was tense was a major understatement. Turned out to be 5 teenagers 16 and 17 years old, and 2 of them blew .02 (meaning they probably had a beer). I went home that night angry and relieved because there easily could have been a shooting of an unarmed teenager who had panicked by the ridiculous show of force. In retrospect, I should have filmed it. Some of the parents told stories that the police painted this picture of potentially Lesson learned. I tell this story to suggest that the police policy of responding with overwhelming force to everything is a disturbing trend, and there have been several police shooting that were questionable, although the police were cleared because they had a good faith belief that a person may have had a gun.

not to make it a race issue, but unfortunately that is the reality for most african americans. I don't advocate martial law, or having a "police state" or any of those extremes. At the same time, if I'm pulled over for talking on the phone while driving, I pull over,turn of the car, roll down my windows and put my hands on the car door where the officer can see them. I've experienced and heard of enough cops just looking for "a reason" to know better than to give them one.

When the police are pointing weapons at you, it's not a good idea to move your hands down six inches, as the article says the victim did. You're supposed to put your hands "Up".

The police had no right to demand that the man exit his home and accept their "help" He apparently made no threats, the only thing he did was toss out his girlfriend's possessions rather than letting her pack and move them after she rejected him.

There in no mention of him wanting to harm himself or others.

The police caused the situation, they escalated the situation and they handled it poorly

I usually support the police, but in this case heads need to roll

sgoewey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dana Montgomery Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The girlfriend was there! If the police
> > overstepped their duties, she would have been
> all
> > over the news telling everyone how f'ed up the
> > police handled the situation. God, I can't
> > believe I live in the same country with these
> > paranoid conspiracy theorists. Guess I should
> > have known. This IS the Fairfax Underground
> after
> > all...
>
> If his commonlaw wife was DEA agent, then most
> likely "there were guns in the house" referred to
> HER firearm and would've been unloaded as DEA
> agents are trained to do. Sigh this looks like a
> horrible over-reaction to situation where he was
> distraught at her leaving him but a threat only to
> himself. OMG and it's not like he had a hostage,
> so why do you call it "negotiated for xx minutes."
> so then he "moves his (empty) hands down about six
> inches" ... because they were tired? to open the
> door? but he's killed like he's a violent
> criminal? he's in his own house, NO Record of any
> violence, yet he's gunned down because he won't
> come outside or let police in, but wants to talk
> to them thru screen door? until they shoot him?!
> OMG.

"toss out his girlfriend's possessions rather than letting her pack and move them after she rejected him. "

And he was so polite about it that she had to call the police and advise them (perhaps because of his extreme and out of character behavior) that he had access to weapons. I dunno why you tell the police something like that unless you're scared. I don't think they brought the swat team because of grass stains on her blouses. They responded to a domestic "disagreement" where a woman was felling threatened by a man who was/may have been armed.

FreedomLvr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > adfadsfasdfasdf: ""US =1, Scumbags=0, so stop
> > complaining."
> >
> > _______
> >
> > Thanks adfadsfasdfasdf.....you just provided
> the
> > PERFECT example of the Nazi Redneck mentality
> that
> > pervades Fairfax County: It's OK for a
> > warrantless cop to murder you despite the fact
> > that you have committed NO crime or even been
> > charged with one. Also, if you read this thread
> > you'll see that your "us" is about 3 people out
> of
> > 100.
> >
> > Here's hoping your house is mowed down by a
> police
> > tank next....I'll be the one sitting there
> eating
> > popcorn watching you bleed out.

Thanks for supporting a shitty political party and wife beaters. You have zero credibility sir.

Stopthenannystate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The police had no right to demand that the man
> exit his home and accept their "help" He
> apparently made no threats, the only thing he did
> was toss out his girlfriend's possessions rather
> than letting her pack and move them after she
> rejected him.
>
> There in no mention of him wanting to harm himself
> or others.
>
> The police caused the situation, they escalated
> the situation and they handled it poorly
>
> I usually support the police, but in this case
> heads need to roll

they were responding to a domestic call, where the woman claimed that the person she was calling about had a gun. I can agree that they may have overreacted by bringing the swat team. But how many times do you hear of these types of domestic situations end up with one or both parties dead. I don't think that the gentleman should have died because he and his girl had a fight. But I read posts on hear all the time regarding stories of a cop shooting or shooting at an inner city kid who chose to run as the officer approached. Most of those post are about how you shouldn't try to run from police,you should obey police instructions (especially when they got the toolies out), and how only a guilty person would try to evade/escape the police. I'm not judging this guy. I've read some posts here that say he was a wonderful man, and I'm sure he'll be missed. I guess i can see how difficult the police's job can be at times. A tragedy though no doubt.

Why the police must show up with SWAT gear and demolition armaments is completely beyond me. The jilted girlfriend is not a credible source, yet the police take her word for it that a weapon will be involved in the situation that was escalated not by the dead guy but by the police. The police true spin on this will no doubt find a way to blame the victim, as they always blame the victim.

Our County is becoming a militarized zone right under our noses. Unless the County's voters reject SWAT resolution of a disputed domestic conflict, you can expect more use of SWAT teams to protect the police from situations they are paid to resolve peaceably.

I have known John for 20 years, he was a good guy. He was a son, a father. a husband and a friend to many. What happened was completely unnecessary. I hope a thorough investigation is conducted!

Just curious about who the poster thinks was the criminal in this particular case. Severe lack of empathy in this country. A little sympathy and no one dies. County attorneys are unemployed; ambulance chasers are frustrated, and best of all, I don't waste time reading about this or wondering if it could happen to someone I know.

lilhollywood10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stopthenannystate Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The police had no right to demand that the man
> > exit his home and accept their "help" He
> > apparently made no threats, the only thing he
> did
> > was toss out his girlfriend's possessions
> rather
> > than letting her pack and move them after she
> > rejected him.
> >
> > There in no mention of him wanting to harm
> himself
> > or others.
> >
> > The police caused the situation, they escalated
> > the situation and they handled it poorly
> >
> > I usually support the police, but in this case
> > heads need to roll
>
> they were responding to a domestic call, where the
> woman claimed that the person she was calling
> about had a gun. I can agree that they may have
> overreacted by bringing the swat team. But how
> many times do you hear of these types of domestic
> situations end up with one or both parties dead. I
> don't think that the gentleman should have died
> because he and his girl had a fight. But I read
> posts on hear all the time regarding stories of a
> cop shooting or shooting at an inner city kid who
> chose to run as the officer approached. Most of
> those post are about how you shouldn't try to run
> from police,you should obey police instructions
> (especially when they got the toolies out), and
> how only a guilty person would try to evade/escape
> the police. I'm not judging this guy. I've read
> some posts here that say he was a wonderful man,
> and I'm sure he'll be missed. I guess i can see
> how difficult the police's job can be at times. A
> tragedy though no doubt.

The police had nothing to go on other than hearsay. If he in fact had no guns but his girlfriend told the police that he did. Do you think the outcome would have been the same? I think so.

It's a different type of situation of course, but with incidents like this, the recent case in VA where a deputy went home and returned with his gun and killed a young unarmed man after an argument on the street, the two cases in Frederick where they basically strangled a young man with Down syndrome in a movie theater, and another in the middle of the night, in his house in a Swat type raid, when they could have easily gone to his day job at a gas station and arrested him, all points to the need for a serious conversation about how things should be handled across the country. My nephew is a policeman and I appreciate the difficulty of their job, but death at the hands of our protectors is unconscionable.

My second issue is this: Are police using paramilitary methods of response as a result of the increasing fervor and rhetoric of 2nd right amendment solutions by right wing echo chambers?

The NRA's stance that everyone should own a gun and be ready to use it has put police at a clear disadvantage when dealing with situations where the person is known to be packin'.

The life of the shooting officer is going to be interesting for the next few months. Particularly if they found the body of Mr. Geer was indeed unarmed. And what harm was he doing anyone? He threw the Girlfriend's clothes out, and it doesn't say he harmed anyone. She is the one who called police to say, "He's armed!" Now he's dead, and I hope she's satisfied.

tojo45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a different type of situation of course, but
> with incidents like this, the recent case in VA
> where a deputy went home and returned with his gun
> and killed a young unarmed man after an argument
> on the street, the two cases in Frederick where
> they basically strangled a young man with Down
> syndrome in a movie theater, and another in the
> middle of the night, in his house in a Swat type
> raid, when they could have easily gone to his day
> job at a gas station and arrested him, all points
> to the need for a serious conversation about how
> things should be handled across the country. My
> nephew is a policeman and I appreciate the
> difficulty of their job, but death at the hands of
> our protectors is unconscionable.

Unfortunately you missed another recent one involving the woman police shot in the Costco. Four deputies had her surrounded and couldn't take her alive

goldfish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tojo45 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's a different type of situation of course,
> but
> > with incidents like this, the recent case in VA
> > where a deputy went home and returned with his
> gun
> > and killed a young unarmed man after an
> argument
> > on the street, the two cases in Frederick
> where
> > they basically strangled a young man with Down
> > syndrome in a movie theater, and another in the
> > middle of the night, in his house in a Swat
> type
> > raid, when they could have easily gone to his
> day
> > job at a gas station and arrested him, all
> points
> > to the need for a serious conversation about
> how
> > things should be handled across the country.
> My
> > nephew is a policeman and I appreciate the
> > difficulty of their job, but death at the hands
> of
> > our protectors is unconscionable.
>
> Unfortunately you missed another recent one
> involving the woman police shot in the Costco.
> Four deputies had her surrounded and couldn't take
> her alive

Pretty laughable. I'm 66 and pretty sure that I could have come out of that with less than a scrape all by myself. Any rational man or woman would have been more successful in defusing the Costco situation. All she had for a weapon was a "Pizza Cutter".

rwilliams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The NRA's stance that everyone should own a gun
> and be ready to use it has put police at a clear
> disadvantage when dealing with situations where
> the person is known to be packin'.

This has nothing to do with the NRA, and everything to do with a police force that is too hyped up on acting like the military

mentholatum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goldfish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tojo45 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It's a different type of situation of course,
> > but
> > > with incidents like this, the recent case in
> VA
> > > where a deputy went home and returned with
> his
> > gun
> > > and killed a young unarmed man after an
> > argument
> > > on the street, the two cases in Frederick
> > where
> > > they basically strangled a young man with
> Down
> > > syndrome in a movie theater, and another in
> the
> > > middle of the night, in his house in a Swat
> > type
> > > raid, when they could have easily gone to his
> > day
> > > job at a gas station and arrested him, all
> > points
> > > to the need for a serious conversation about
> > how
> > > things should be handled across the country.
>
> > My
> > > nephew is a policeman and I appreciate the
> > > difficulty of their job, but death at the
> hands
> > of
> > > our protectors is unconscionable.
> >
> > Unfortunately you missed another recent one
> > involving the woman police shot in the Costco.
> > Four deputies had her surrounded and couldn't
> take
> > her alive
>
> Pretty laughable. I'm 66 and pretty sure that I
> could have come out of that with less than a
> scrape all by myself. Any rational man or woman
> would have been more successful in defusing the
> Costco situation. All she had for a weapon was a
> "Pizza Cutter".

In the case of the Costco shooting the lady was carrying a large knife/pizza cutter, not to be confused with the small round ones that most people think of. Not that this justifies her shooting, but I wanted everyone to realize what it was she was carrying to avoid confusion.

When Fairfax Police use terms such as "Barricaded himself", arrive to every situation with a SWAT team, use paramilitary tactical methods, and treat every situation as if it were the Battle of the Bulge, we know we have to have a serious discussion.

GRILLADES Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rwilliams Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The NRA's stance that everyone should own a gun
> > and be ready to use it has put police at a
> clear
> > disadvantage when dealing with situations where
> > the person is known to be packin'.
>
> This has nothing to do with the NRA, and
> everything to do with a police force that is too
> hyped up on acting like the military


On a recent NPR program, the Concord, NH, police chief said he doesn't feel any threat at all when he sees a citizen openly carrying a handgun or carrying concealed. The police chief of my town teaches the legal part of the local firearms safety course and advocates concealed carry. I know other police officers to support open and concealed carry.

The Concord police chief also said in response to a caller's statement about there being an "arms race" between civilians and the police that there is no "arms race" between the police and armed civilians. He said that over the years the rate of gun ownership has increased while the rate of firearms crimes has decreased in the U.S.

Summerrd7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I speak from a point of view of someone that lives
> in Fairfax County, have called 911 Fairfax county
> police for domestic violence on more than several
> occasions. I have a daughter with the man germane
> to my case and a 26 year relationship with him. I
> lived in fear for many years and suffered many
> beating which went unreported. In my case when
> calling 911 the officers came to the residence,
> spoke to my spouse who was too barricaded himself
> in the house (the only difference he did NOT open
> the door.) When the police asked me if there were
> weapons, I honestly said, I don't know, there were
> knives I knew of from the kitchen. After several
> minutes of speaking with my spouse barricaded in
> the house, the officers suggested I find somewhere
> else to be for the duration. About 3 weeks went
> by and the police arrested my spouse outside,
> finally mowing the grass. I also speak from a
> perspective of knowing John and the family and I
> believe the police, Fairfax police, could have
> handled this situation much differently and not
> escalated this event for a totally different
> outcome, one in which could have saved the life of
> John. The same highly trained policeman that came
> to my door and helped me a few years ago was not
> the same trained police man that visited John's
> door. I believe there could have been a different
> protocol or outcome in this situation. I do hope
> the investigation is forth right and honest for
> all the loved ones involved.

A couple of points need to be made...

1). For domestic related incidents the police can't assume that "Things will be alright" and come back in a few weeks to talk to the persons involved. In the past, there have been cases where one spouse murdered the other not long after the reported incident.

2). The police were talking to the guy and he just stood there at his front door for a while. He didn't cooperate with police. He stood there at the door for what? 20-30 minutes plus? The police told him to get on the ground, that's so they can check him for weapons, etc. He did none of that.

The moral of the story is this, under the Va state code, you have to cooperate with police. When you don't, bad things happen.

cssnms Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have known John for 20 years, he was a good guy.
> He was a son, a father. a husband and a friend
> to many. What happened was completely
> unnecessary. I hope a thorough investigation is
> conducted!

He wasn't a husband, he and the woman were Common-law, that means he and his girlfriend were never married they just lived together for a long time. He also apparently was ignorant that he was supposed to cooperate with police.

***Note: I want to make it clear that despite my negativity towards the victim for being so goddamned stupid, I don't feel he should have been shot. I do feel that he contributed alot to this situation, as well as his "Common-Law Wife".

NBC4 video Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NBC4 has a video that was taken by a neighbor...
>
> Man Fatally Shot During Fairfax Co. Standoff ID'd
> http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Shots-Fire
> d-at-Springfield-Va-Home-221693811.html
>
> Police have released the name of the man killed
> during a barricade situation in Springfield, Va.
> Thursday.
>
> Fairfax County Police were dispatched to the 7900
> block of Pebble Brook Court around 2:30 p.m. for a
> domestic disturbance and a possibly armed
> individual.
>
> In amateur video from the scene obtained
> exclusively by News4, the suspect is seen at the
> front door of his home while officers, K-9 units
> and SWAT team members surround the area.
>
> "He refused to come outside and he would not allow
> officers inside," Fairfax County Police officer
> Bud Walker said.
>
> The man, identified as 46-year-old John Geer,
> negotiated with police for about 40 minutes before
> a patrol officer fired a single shot into the home
> and struck Geer.
>
> Geer then barricaded himself inside the home.
>
> In order to help him, the home's front door was
> knocked in by a police tanker, and SWAT team
> members made their way inside at approximately 5
> p.m. Officials later confirmed the gunshot fired
> by police earlier in the afternoon had killed the
> suspect.
>
> Erica Epps told News4 she has been neighbors with
> Geer for nine years.
>
> "I feel really bad for the wife and children, we
> know the kids," Epps said. "[He seemed] like a
> good guy."
>
> Police have not said why shots were fired into the
> home or what they found inside upon entry.
>
> The patrol officer who fired the shot has been
> placed on administrative leave while an
> investigation is conducted.

Thanks for posting this video link from the neighbor. Check out the cop behind the tree with the gun pointed on Geer. Notice how Geer ignores everything they tell him to do? I saw a few posts where somene said he couldn't hear them. That's 100% bullshit. When the cops show up at your door to investigate a call, you do what they tell you to do. You don't stand at your front door and play filibuster. Unmarried but shacked up with a hoe, multiple kids by multiple women? People thinking this is such a great guy? Armed or not, playing games with the police is what got him shot.

> Thanks for posting this video link from the
> neighbor. Check out the cop behind the tree with
> the gun pointed on Geer. Notice how Geer ignores
> everything they tell him to do? I saw a few posts
> where somene said he couldn't hear them. That's
> 100% bullshit. When the cops show up at your door
> to investigate a call, you do what they tell you
> to do. You don't stand at your front door and play
> filibuster. Unmarried but shacked up with a hoe,
> multiple kids by multiple women? People thinking
> this is such a great guy? Armed or not, playing
> games with the police is what got him shot.

Your an absolute idiot !..With your strong command of Ebonics, its apparent how sharp you are. But I will try to go slow so you can follow along.

He had been "shacked up" for 25 years. The "hoe" is a programmer for the DEA probably making more money in a month then you make in a year. Both children came from the same mother. So before you pass your judgment from behind the grill at McDonalds, you may want to take a closer look in the mirror

Before letting that dribble flow from your empty head, try commenting on the facts. A distraught, depressed UNARMED man was shot while standing in the doorway of his own home. This was a man who needed help, not a bullet.

asfadsfasdfadfas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Armed or not, playing games with the police is
> what got him shot.

"Zee penalty for disobeying zee police, is DEATH!"

Man, you would've fit right in with the SS.

On second thought, they might've been too lenient for you.

The Hard Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> asfadsfasdfadfas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Armed or not, playing games with the police is
> > what got him shot.
>
> "Zee penalty for disobeying zee police, is
> DEATH!"
>
> Man, you would've fit right in with the SS.
>
> On second thought, they might've been too lenient
> for you.

It is when you're the suspect of a reported crime, in this case a domestic dispute where you're throwing your common-law wife's clothes on the front lawn and there are reports of you running around with a gun. Trust me, allow the police to do their jobs and for God's sake don't make any sudden moves.

Helium Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your an absolute idiot !..With your strong command
> of Ebonics, its apparent how sharp you are. But I
> will try to go slow so you can follow along.
>
> He had been "shacked up" for 25 years. The "hoe"
> is a programmer for the DEA probably making more
> money in a month then you make in a year. Both
> children came from the same mother. So before you
> pass your judgment from behind the grill at
> McDonalds, you may want to take a closer look in
> the mirror
>
> Before letting that dribble flow from your empty
> head, try commenting on the facts. A distraught,
> depressed UNARMED man was shot while standing in
> the doorway of his own home. This was a man who
> needed help, not a bullet.

She's still a hoe. Being unmarried and with a black guy for 25 years, and she was a DEA agent huh? Which means the house had firearms. "A distraught, depressed UNARMED man". True it looks like he was unarmed, but it also looks like he wasn't very smart. When a cop has a gun pointed at you, you lay down and allow them to do their job.
Attachments:

Why all the fuss? Another negro got plugged by the police, since when is that a crime?

Helium Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Thanks for posting this video link from the
> > neighbor. Check out the cop behind the tree
> with
> > the gun pointed on Geer. Notice how Geer
> ignores
> > everything they tell him to do? I saw a few
> posts
> > where somene said he couldn't hear them. That's
> > 100% bullshit. When the cops show up at your
> door
> > to investigate a call, you do what they tell
> you
> > to do. You don't stand at your front door and
> play
> > filibuster. Unmarried but shacked up with a
> hoe,
> > multiple kids by multiple women? People
> thinking
> > this is such a great guy? Armed or not, playing
> > games with the police is what got him shot.
>
> Your an absolute idiot !..With your strong command
> of Ebonics, its apparent how sharp you are. But I
> will try to go slow so you can follow along.
>
> He had been "shacked up" for 25 years. The "hoe"
> is a programmer for the DEA probably making more
> money in a month then you make in a year. Both
> children came from the same mother. So before you
> pass your judgment from behind the grill at
> McDonalds, you may want to take a closer look in
> the mirror
>
> Before letting that dribble flow from your empty
> head, try commenting on the facts. A distraught,
> depressed UNARMED man was shot while standing in
> the doorway of his own home. This was a man who
> needed help, not a bullet.

He did get help, he ate a bullet. Problem solved.

The problem here is that black people think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want. Guess what black people? You can't.

I am disgusted by the comments on this page and the rascist remarks that abound here. A non-lethal (peaceful) solution was always clearly available and has worked effectively in the past. Ladies and gentlemen, I present the N-Trap309...
Attachments:

Why do you think he's black? I never met him, but I have met one of his daughters - which is why it would surprise me if he were not white

Dude was white not that it matters. That is racist.

If you know the dead man and his 'girl friend' (what's her name anyway?) go ahead and post pictures of both. Else STFU.

MP5N Wrote:

> Man I love all the Monday morning quarter backs.
> First of all more police officers are killed on
> domestic violence/disturbance calls than any other
> type. Second, (by limited information released to
> this point) when a suspect lowers his hand 6
> inches, what do you think police officers are
> going to do?!?! They are trained to shoot to
> kill, not wound, in order to protect themselves.
> An officer isn't going to be able to tell if a
> suspect has a concealed weapon under his clothes.
> Not to mention when the suspect retreated back
> into his home and closed the door, they have know
> way of knowing of the door was boobytrapped. Or
> of the suspect was waiting to shoot an officer
> that comes thru the door. Hence why SWAT Team
> made a tactical entry. You all think you can do
> better, train for 2 years, strap on the uniform
> and badge and see how you would do.
>
> FreedomLvr you are completed retarded.

_________

I notice that you keep throwing around the word "suspect". So why don't you tell us ALL EXACTLY what crime this guy was "suspected" of committing? Go ahead, give it a try you dimwitted ass hat, we are ALL listening!!!

I think there is a big misunderstanding here. The man shot in Springfield was white, not black. The black male that was shot by police wasn't even in this state (this time).

A man's home is his castle, remember that old saying? I guess that doesn't pertain if the castle is in the Fourth Reich (Fairfax County).

FFXBlows -FaceIt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A man's home is his castle, remember that old
> saying? I guess that doesn't pertain if the
> castle is in the Fourth Reich (Fairfax County).

LOL, that's a poor analogy. Only Lords lived in castles. Are you suggesting that we go back to a feudal system or a monarchy? Do us all a favor and go back to Russia you fucking communist.

I see this incident as a symptom of the evils in our society. Where one wrong leads to another to another. Let us banish the anger and hatred from our hearts and pray for peace and justice.

Increase, O God, the spirit of neighborliness among all who dwell on earth, that in peril we may uphold one another, in suffering tend one another, and in loneliness befriend one another. Grant us brave and enduring hearts that we may be strengthened, until the strife of these days be ended and you give peace in our time; through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let us be filled with the presence of your great compassion toward ourselves and toward all living beings.

Realizing that we are all nourished from the same source of life, may we so live that others be not deprived of air, food, water, shelter, or the chance to live.

With humility, let us work and pray for the establishment of peace in our hearts and peace on earth. Justice for one and Justice for all through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Attachments:

MP5N Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Man I love all the Monday morning quarter backs.
> First of all more police officers are killed on
> domestic violence/disturbance calls than any other
> type.

False its traffic stops and police in Fairfax County dont get killed this isnt LA or Detroit or Chicago.

>Second, (by limited information released to
> this point) when a suspect lowers his hand 6
> inches, what do you think police officers are
> going to do?!?!

Not panic and fire a single shot or accidentally have their gun go off. Can you tell me what part of the academy theyre taught when facing an armed suspect to only have a single officer with a hand gun fire a single round at a barricaded suspect whose alone?

>They are trained to shoot to
> kill, not wound, in order to protect themselves.

Irrelevant to what happened. Everyone with a brain knows if you shoot its too kill, the shot should have never been taken.

> An officer isn't going to be able to tell if a
> suspect has a concealed weapon under his clothes.

So now youre advocating them just shooting everyone and sorting it out later because they could have a concealed weapon?

> Not to mention when the suspect retreated back
> into his home and closed the door, they have know
> way of knowing of the door was boobytrapped.

Again Fairfax county, not Baghdad or a Baltimore Drug tower. Almost a completely retarded argument on your part because they broke the door down anyway.

>Or
> of the suspect was waiting to shoot an officer
> that comes thru the door. Hence why SWAT Team
> made a tactical entry.

Did you miss the part about a patrolmen shooting the guy an hour earlier for no reason?

>You all think you can do
> better, train for 2 years, strap on the uniform
> and badge and see how you would do.

They dont train for 2 years the academy isnt even close to half that time.

Wow, I just listened to the scanner recorded tape. The long time girlfriend, 24yrs. call 911 because He was throwing her things around the house as she was moving out. The guns are all locked in the safe & no know drug or alcohol is envoled. How it got to "he has been hit"? I don't know. Kinda F'd Up.

6X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, I just listened to the scanner recorded tape.
> The long time girlfriend, 24yrs. call 911 because
> He was throwing her things around the house as she
> was moving out. The guns are all locked in the
> safe & no know drug or alcohol is envoled. How it
> got to "he has been hit"? I don't know. Kinda F'd
> Up.

Can you post it up here for us to listen to?

I will try see if this works.
Attachments:

6X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will try see if this works.

That didn't work, try uploading it here and then share the link.

http://picosong.com/

Here's another question. The patrol officer shot him, he retreated and shut and locked his door. Since when is that a barricade? Also, the cop knew he hit him, he saw him grab his side. The cops waited for over an hour until they entered and let the paramedics go in to him. The told the news the SWAT truck busted down the door so that they could help him. BULLSHIT! They waited over an hour. He had a .40 caliber shot to the chest. He bled to death in a few minutes. If they wanted to help him, why didn't they go in and get him help? It looked like they had half of the county here.

No such thing as "common law" spouse in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Dummie should have cooperated

Fact Check2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No such thing as "common law" spouse in the
> Commonwealth of Virginia. Dummie should have
> cooperated


Not true. You cant start a common law marriage in VA but if you had one in another state and move to VA its still valid.

Getting your first statement wrong doesnt make an incorrect second statement surprising

http://www.broadcastify.com/archives/feed/6164/?rl=rr

Final Solution Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bottom Line Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Should they just walk away and just hope he
> calms
> > down?
>
> Yes.
>
> Establish a perimeter and call in the negotiating
> team.

Um, hello? That's exactly what they did. You saw officers around the back and officers in the front. One officer was negotiating while the other officers were probably trained to watch for weapons. As to why there was only one shot? Is it possible that only one officer was in the position to see a gun in his hand? Surely the cops in the back couldn't. I'd be more worried if the cops all started shooting the house at once. Again, I'm playing devil's advocate and everything on this thread is pure speculation. But guess what? We all have the right to name call and point out how "stupid" someone is because of a difference of opinion. Me personally? I'm sick of the argument that someone is "within their rights" to do this or that. The poor man was within his rights to own or have firearms. The poor man was within his rights to get angry at his girlfriend (or wife). The poor man was within his rights to not surrender to the police. But where did exercising all these rights lead him in the end? If anyone finds himself or herself in the same position as this poor man, toss ego to the side and think about your family. Don't become a martyr for people to talk about on this website or any others.

Bottom Line Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Um, hello? That's exactly what they did. You saw
> officers around the back and officers in the
> front. One officer was negotiating while the
> other officers were probably trained to watch for
> weapons.

Yes if you ignore the fact they killed him during that thats what they did. Kind of a big detail.

> As to why there was only one shot? Is
> it possible that only one officer was in the
> position to see a gun in his hand? Surely the
> cops in the back couldn't.

No its not possible. Had that been the case multiple shots would have been fired. NOTHING in their training says fire a single shot from a handgun. Look at any police shooting in the country where someone pulls a weapons, multiple shots every time and usually from everyone there. Only snipers take a single shot.

Furthermore they always immediately release if someone had a weapon, it justifies a shooting. They havent meaning there was no weapon.

> I'd be more worried if
> the cops all started shooting the house at once.
> Again, I'm playing devil's advocate and everything
> on this thread is pure speculation. But guess
> what?

Not really we know a lot of facts and their silence on the issue speaks volumes about what really happened. Whenever they go dead quiet its not good for the police. Theres no pending investigation they have to keep from tipping a suspect off the guy is dead. T

>We all have the right to name call and
> point out how "stupid" someone is because of a
> difference of opinion. Me personally? I'm sick
> of the argument that someone is "within their
> rights" to do this or that. The poor man was
> within his rights to own or have firearms. The
> poor man was within his rights to get angry at his
> girlfriend (or wife). The poor man was within his
> rights to not surrender to the police. But where
> did exercising all these rights lead him in the
> end?

To being murdered. Im sorry youre sick of people having rights. North Korea is a great place to move is you dont value individual rights. Your own admission stats the guy was within his rights, the cops were not within theirs to take that shot.

> If anyone finds himself or herself in the
> same position as this poor man, toss ego to the
> side and think about your family. Don't become a
> martyr for people to talk about on this website or
> any others.

None of that justifies the police murdering someone because he wouldnt just blindly follow unlawful orders. Its perfectly legal to throw someone out of your house. If something is broken in the process thats a civil matter not criminal. It turned into a pissing contest where the cops were going to assert their authority for no reason other than they could. Its all the us vs them mentality they have.

As long as enough people like you make excuses for them acting like a Marine Unit kicking down doors in Baghdad they will continue to do so and it will only get worse. Actually I take that back, the military holds a higher use of force standard and court martials people who dont meet it

Dummie still should have listened.

Sounds like someone needs to move to Canada or Syria or something.

Terrible analogy Wrote:
LOL, that's a poor analogy. Only Lords lived in
> castles. Are you suggesting that we go back to a
> feudal system or a monarchy? Do us all a favor and
> go back to Russia you fucking communist.


_________

Why Yes I am advocating that a feudal or monarchical system be implemented in America forthwith!!!....you have me all figured out, Einstein!!

Dude....it is an OLD EXPRESSION. You would have to be on bathsalts to take the way you did. Go eat a 9MM barrel and get back to us, K? 8-)

1. County attorney will find no wrongdoing.

2. FCPD will be cleared of another f*ck-up, which it royally specializes in.

3. Taxpayers will have to foot the bill for the $2-3 million wrongful death settlement that will ultimately be litigated and agreed to out of court.

FCPD shoots.
Taxpayers pay.

Remember the IHOP.

Davey Crrockett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. County attorney will find no wrongdoing.
>
> 2. FCPD will be cleared of another f*ck-up, which
> it royally specializes in.
>
> 3. Taxpayers will have to foot the bill for the
> $2-3 million wrongful death settlement that will
> ultimately be litigated and agreed to out of
> court.
>
> FCPD shoots.
> Taxpayers pay.
>
> Remember the IHOP.


IHOP was Alexandria City fucktard.

Thanks for all the info. i knew John for a period of time and learned of his death through a mutual contact. I was shocked by the news as it seemed so out of character that he would be caught up in a stand off with police. Searching for answers, I listened to the radio scanner archive posted here and Confirmed the following from the previous post:

*the first call that came in was from the girlfriend. The info relayed to officers was that he was tossing her stuff around, tosssing it out, that she was in the process of moving out. The dispatcher said there were no drugs or alcohol, two guns in a locked gun safe.
*approximately 10-15 minutes lapse and you hear an officer state he "won't come out" and then you hear them state that Geer says he is armed with a gun and wont hesitate to use it against them if necessary. various officers state this to dispatch. One officer is going next door to the neighbor's house to speak to the girlfriend.

...

gilligan's island Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for all the info. i knew John for a period
> of time and learned of his death through a mutual
> contact. I was shocked by the news as it seemed
> so out of character that he would be caught up in
> a stand off with police. Searching for answers, I
> listened to the radio scanner archive posted here
> and Confirmed the following from the previous
> post:
>
> *the first call that came in was from the
> girlfriend. The info relayed to officers was that
> he was tossing her stuff around, tosssing it out,
> that she was in the process of moving out. The
> dispatcher said there were no drugs or alcohol,
> two guns in a locked gun safe.
> *approximately 10-15 minutes lapse and you hear an
> officer state he "won't come out" and then you
> hear them state that Geer says he is armed with a
> gun and wont hesitate to use it against them if
> necessary. various officers state this to
> dispatch. One officer is going next door to the
> neighbor's house to speak to the girlfriend.
>
> ...


Do not forget that the cops have computers in their cars. Most of the information on calls are sent to the officers via the computer. They may have been a lot of additional information that officers got that was not in the radio traffic. You need to have both the radio traffic and the computer traffic to get a better picture of what was going on.

Liberal Logic 27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fact Check2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No such thing as "common law" spouse in the
> > Commonwealth of Virginia. Dummie should have
> > cooperated
>
>
> Not true. You cant start a common law marriage in
> VA but if you had one in another state and move to
> VA its still valid.
>
> Getting your first statement wrong doesnt make an
> incorrect second statement surprising

That's correct, it used to be different some years ago (7 years together = Common Law Marriage), but not anymore since the law has since changed...

Marriage in Virginia
http://www.vsb.org/site/publications/marriage-in-virginia

3. Does Virginia have "Common Law Marriages?"
No. A common law marriage is one by agreement of two people who consider themselves married without any formal ceremony or license and hold themselves out as married. Such arrangements are not marriages in Virginia, but they will be recognized here if they were valid in the state where they took place and if they were between people who would have been eligible to marry under Virginia law.

gilligan's island Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for all the info. i knew John for a period
> of time and learned of his death through a mutual
> contact. I was shocked by the news as it seemed
> so out of character that he would be caught up in
> a stand off with police. Searching for answers, I
> listened to the radio scanner archive posted here
> and Confirmed the following from the previous
> post:
>
> *the first call that came in was from the
> girlfriend. The info relayed to officers was that
> he was tossing her stuff around, tosssing it out,
> that she was in the process of moving out. The
> dispatcher said there were no drugs or alcohol,
> two guns in a locked gun safe.
> *approximately 10-15 minutes lapse and you hear an
> officer state he "won't come out" and then you
> hear them state that Geer says he is armed with a
> gun and wont hesitate to use it against them if
> necessary. various officers state this to
> dispatch. One officer is going next door to the
> neighbor's house to speak to the girlfriend.
>
> ...

Thanks for posting that 6X, anyone can download it now and listen to it.

The moral of this story? Never put your trust in a woman. Take a lesson from Samson. OH and yes, listen to the police and no sudden moves.

From the Post:

A Springfield man who was killed by a Fairfax County police officer during a standoff at his home Thursday was not carrying a gun at the time of the shooting, but one was found nearby afterward, his father said a detective had told him.

John Geer, 46, was shot after officers tried, without success, for 50 minutes to persuade him to leave his Pebble Brook Court home, police said. Officers had been called to the scene by Geer’s girlfriend, who police said had reported that he was armed.

Geer’s father, Don Geer, was outside the home as officers talked with his son. He has said he watched as his son stood with empty hands resting on top of a screen door at the front door. When John Geer lowered his hands about six inches, his father said, one officer opened fire, and John Geer was hit. He retreated into the home, where a SWAT team later found him dead.

Don Geer said Tuesday that a detective investigating the case told him that his son was not holding a gun at the time of the shooting and that he did not have one on his person. Geer said the detective told him that officers found a holstered handgun on a stairway landing that is a “couple of steps” from the front door.

Geer said the officer should not have shot his son.

“If he doesn’t have a weapon in his immediate possession, the officer should not have fired,” Don Geer said. “He would have to have turned around, bent over and then picked up the gun to present a threat. It’s pretty hard to say the shooting was justifiable.”

Geer said he could not hear the conversation between the officers and his son before the shooting. He said the detective declined to say what had transpired.

County Police Chief Edwin C. Roessler Jr. expressed his condolences Tuesday for John Geer’s death, but he declined to comment on the facts of the case. “My commitment is that a thorough investigation will be conducted,” he said.

Police have not said whether John Geer was armed or why the officer opened fire, and they have declined to discuss the conversation between John Geer and the officers before the shooting.

On the day of the shooting, John Geer was distraught that his girlfriend — the mother of his two teenage daughters — planned to leave him, and he had been throwing her belongings out of the house, his father said.

John Geer, a kitchen designer and installer, had never been convicted of a violent crime in Fairfax County.

Davey Crrockett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. County attorney will find no wrongdoing.
>
> 2. FCPD will be cleared of another f*ck-up, which
> it royally specializes in.
>
> 3. Taxpayers will have to foot the bill for the
> $2-3 million wrongful death settlement that will
> ultimately be litigated and agreed to out of
> court.
>
> FCPD shoots.
> Taxpayers pay.
>
> Remember the IHOP.


Cool story bro,,except the IHOP is in the City of Alexandria and the cop was an off duty Alexandria cop, nice try though

Dad speaks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the Post:
>
> Don Geer said Tuesday that a detective
> investigating the case told him that his son was
> not holding a gun at the time of the shooting and
> that he did not have one on his person. Geer said
> the detective told him that officers found a
> holstered handgun on a stairway landing that is a
> “couple of steps” from the front door.

And there we go...One bullet later and it was all over.

SpeedLimit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow,that's a lot of tickets. Shows that he thumbs
> his nose at even simple laws.


or he got harrassed.

This is really scary. While I generally have been impressed with FCPD, this and the other case involving the shooting of a gambling suspect, are reminders that more safeguards need to be put into place.

For this case, its time for the Commonwealth Attorney of Virginia, along with prosecutors from other jurisdictions to conduct this investigation. This really sucks.

FCPD has a longstanding policy of limiting negotiations to 45 minutes, after which they are authorized and required to terminate negotiations "with extreme prejudice". After all, the coffee and donuts are not getting any fresher, and the police need to get back on traffic duty to meet their revenue-generation quotas.

Cops make EVERY situation worse.

Cops make EVERY situation worse.

Cops make EVERY situation worse.

Cops make EVERY situation worse.

FCPD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPD has a longstanding policy of limiting
> negotiations to 45 minutes, after which they are
> authorized and required to terminate negotiations
> "with extreme prejudice". After all, the coffee
> and donuts are not getting any fresher, and the
> police need to get back on traffic duty to meet
> their revenue-generation quotas.


I hear about how all the FCPD does is write tickets to generate revenue. I see it in threads over and over again. Does anybody know how much money the county receives from all these tickets? I am sure the real amount has to be somewhere. I am sure somebody here knows where to look. Would be interesting to see what the figure is.

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I hear about how all the FCPD does is write
> tickets to generate revenue. I see it in threads
> over and over again. Does anybody know how much
> money the county receives from all these tickets?
> I am sure the real amount has to be somewhere. I
> am sure somebody here knows where to look. Would
> be interesting to see what the figure is.


Its not as easy to figure out as you might think for the money they actually get. Some people dont pay, some tickets get thrown out, some judges adjust the fine amount, even people that are paying can get extended times too ect.

That said its an impressive amount. 2k+ officers expected to write 20+ tickets a month with the motorcycle divisions expected to write 40+ a month and youre talking upwards of 50K tickets every month. Even at an average ticket cost of 20 dollars thats a million dollars a month and thats an extremely low estimate. The average ticket is probably around 50 dollars is not higher so probably somewhere between 5 to 10 million a month. If they arent bringing in 100 million or more a year theyre getting within spitting distance.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2013 10:48PM by chuckhoffmann.

I continued listening to the audio archive of the scanner, though have not yet finished hearing what transpired in the 50+ minutes after he was shot.

At one point, an officer relayed that the GF said Geer told her he had a gun and was 45 seconds away from blowing his brains out. Geer's friend also confirmed he had a gun. The dispatcher said something like, "Suicide by Cop"... I actually sensed this intel was the turning point that day.

At this point, two k-9 units were sent and evenutally directed to take position in the rear of the property. Much of the exchanges are about officers and their positions... they also request a hostage negotiator, etc.

At one point, you hear a officer "confirm that we still have direct contact with him; 740 bravo has him at gunpoint he has his hands up in the air but he is still inside the house... he says if anyone comes in through the back door he is going to escalate so don't try to enter the back door..." Another officer says, "we just want to get perimeter of backside, no entry at this point..."

At one point you hear an officer provide an update on the types of known guns in the house, according to the GF--2 handguns, a shot gun and a semi-automatic, which he referenced today.

At one point you hear an officer state, "subject has advised he has a gun in close proximity to him"

And later I heard... [undecipherable] ..."lower waistband on his back."

One officer asks: "has the GF stated has he been drinking?" Response: she is not sure, he is a alcoholic, and has started drinking more often again now that she has told him she would be leaving...

You hear one officer approximately state, "we have the front covered if he goes toward the bravo side we are going to take him, if he goes to the delta side he is all yours."

And finally... "he's down inside the house."
and
"open door... he's hit... door's closed... we don't know whether he's moving around or not..."

and some immediate confusion

"have rescue staged at top of street" and "we don't know the situation inside the residence"... and "we don't know whether he initiated that and shot himself"... and "shot was from an officer--he did not fire..."

and then they begin trying to make contact with him.

..."trying to reach him by phone if not successful were going to make a PA announcement..." and "If you make a pa announcement, his name is John."

You later here them state he's not answering the landline or his cell.

I dozed off to sleep at some point last night so I haven't heard it in its entirety yet.

I hope this helps fill in so many of the gaps.

"Cop shot dude in his house when he opened the door. Now they just let him die."

they say the officers were threatened with a fire arm

i hope they did shoot him.

he's an enemy combatant at that stage, if he's pointing weapons at the police.

only thing is being a relationship issue they should have known he'd be acting crazy and gave him time to calm down. but for all we know he threated the girlfriend or they did give him time.

i'm sick of them going soft on marauders (ie, armed bank robbers). stupid

r.i.p. but don't come back, if your using weapons to get what you want

liberal logic 27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Its not as easy to figure out as you might think
> for the money they actually get. Some people dont
> pay, some tickets get thrown out, some judges
> adjust the fine amount, even people that are
> paying can get extended times too ect.

Yes...You are correct.... but this has nothing to do with the actual amount of money the county gets each year form tickets. At some point the money that is collected is split up and the county gets their share. This figure is out there somewhere.

> That said its an impressive amount. 2k+ officers
> expected to write 20+ tickets a month with the
> motorcycle divisions expected to write 40+ a month
> and youre talking upwards of 50K tickets every
> month.

Um..first the Fairfax County Police only has about 1300 officers, not 2000 plus. Of the roughly 1300, only about 700 officers are patrol officers. 20 tickets a month? Last time I had to sit in traffic court, most officers had just a few tickets but a couple officers seemed to have a lot so I guess it evens out.

> Even at an average ticket cost of 20
> dollars thats a million dollars a month and thats
> an extremely low estimate. The average ticket is
> probably around 50 dollars is not higher so
> probably somewhere between 5 to 10 million a
> month. If they arent bringing in 100 million or
> more a year theyre getting within spitting
> distance.

Um..you do know the county does not get the whole amount of the fines? They only get a percentage of the actual fines.

SO.. I would really like to know the actual dollar amount turned over to the county from the court system resulting from traffic fines collected. The amount has to be somewhere in the court or county annual reports.

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Um..first the Fairfax County Police only has about
> 1300 officers, not 2000 plus. Of the roughly 1300,
> only about 700 officers are patrol officers. 20
> tickets a month? Last time I had to sit in traffic
> court, most officers had just a few tickets but a
> couple officers seemed to have a lot so I guess it
> evens out.


You really think officers have 1 traffic court day a month? In 2011 the traffic division alone wrote over 11k tickets.

Its very standard knowledge that police in NOVA are expected to write 20+ tickets a month to meet their quota, if youre motorcycle is over 40 since thats all they do. If they have to stand out on the corner writing expired tag or inspection tickets they do, especially in Vienna. In 2011 they issued almost 25k tickets or over 2k a month so you can do the math for how that breaks down per officer.

Yes I understand the money gets split up some, the point was its a huge pot of revenue theyre generating. That doesnt even count the tickets or revenue from inspecting semis or the over 40k parking tickets on top of that. Its by far and away what they do the most of. Its all in their annual reports they release every year, their closure rates on a lot of crimes arent very good either for how light the workload is for most crimes. How do you only close 73% of bank robbberies, its all on video.

fuck shit fuck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cops make EVERY situation worse.

Not this time. LOL

incorrect assumption Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used to live in a townhouse community off of the
> parkway near Rolling Road.
>
> About 3 years ago, a neighbor several houses away
> was having some sort of mental breakdown.
>
> The cops were called and I am not kidding --they
> sent the SWAT team in. We are talking full gear,
> commandos, like we would see when we invade Syria
> next week.
>
> The old guy could not have been less physically
> threatening-no weapon. He ended up in the back
> yard of his house which backs up to woods-so he
> was behind the houses. The SWAT guys tackled the
> guy--I am shocked he wasn't killed just by the
> sheer force.
>
> My point is this, I saw first hand how nutty these
> FCPD guys are.
>
> Go FOIA the times the chopper is called out and
> for the stupid reasons. Car thefts, kids breaking
> into schools.
>
> THEY HAVE TOO MANY EXPENSIVE TOYS provided by the
> taxpayers and feel compelled to use them.
>
> THEY HAVE ZERO...repeat ZERO common sense.


You have no idea what was said in the phone call that got the police response. Ever hear of a mental breakdown by the slang term "going postal"? Officers are protecting themselves

Have to love all the Monday morning quarterbacks who would shit their pants if ever put in a stressful situation. They have all the answers. Get over it.

MONDAY AN QB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have to love all the Monday morning quarterbacks
> who would shit their pants if ever put in a
> stressful situation.

You mean like the cop who killed the guy for no reason?

Tough One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is really scary. While I generally have been
> impressed with FCPD, this and the other case
> involving the shooting of a gambling suspect, are
> reminders that more safeguards need to be put into
> place.
>
> For this case, its time for the Commonwealth
> Attorney of Virginia, along with prosecutors from
> other jurisdictions to conduct this investigation.
> This really sucks.

How so? The guy had a gun on the staircase behind him and was talking crazy to the police. They shot him. Problem solved. Stupid people like this deserved to be shot. No wonder his common-law wife was leaving his ass.

On a side note, here's something to cheer you up...

A woman calls 911 saying she can't unlock herself out of her car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATMSKQJGK24

From the fairfax connection....

#On Aug. 29, another civilian was shot to death in a situation that, on the face of it, did not justify the use of lethal force. Mr. John Geer was shot to death standing in the doorway of his home with no visible weapon according to reports from his father and neighbors.

#Once again, the police are silent on what happened. The story is all too familiar. Several men armed with the weapons of war, in full battle gear, shout orders at a suspect and shoot the person to death. It has all the feel of a military strike, not civilian law enforcement protecting the public. Lethal force seems almost standard procedure, not the last resort it should be. Consider:

#police are called to the scene by someone reporting a domestic disturbance and a man who may have a gun;

#Mr. Geer has no record of violence and no weapons are visible, according to witnesses promptly ordered to leave the area—for their safety presumably;

#the Fairfax County PD SWAT officers talk to and shout orders to the lone man standing in his doorway in shorts to come outside. He does not and shots are fired by an officer police refuse to identify. The suspect is quite dead when police ram their way into his home;

#then, police throw the shroud of secrecy over the scene and the story of what happened. There is no official public report, no explanation by FCPD of what led to the shooting, and the officer’s name is not disclosed.

#Witnesses and neighbors who spoke to the press say they do not understand why it was necessary to shoot Mr. Geer. He wasn’t armed, had never been a problem and certainly posed no threat to the heavily armed officers. (In fact, a detective said a gun was found in a holster some distance from where he stood.)

#What happened next is also all too familiar. The police say the shooter is on administrative leave pending an investigation by … his fellow officers. In the 71-year history of the FCPD, there has never been independent investigation or review by a third party of killings by FCPD officers in the line of duty. And, in the 71 years, no shooter has ever been charged with, much less convicted of, any wrongdoing. I outlined several other recent, troubling cases in a prior column.

#The Virginia Citizens Coalition for Police Accountability has long advocated creation of a Citizens Review Board of the sort working in over 125 large jurisdictions around the country. Such boards in fact serve both the public interest and the police officers in getting at the truth. It likely would be a rare case when such review turned up wrongdoing by our otherwise well-trained corps. It would be healthy for officers to understand that as public servants paid by the citizens, they are accountable to the public, especially when they use lethal force.

#A few years ago, Fairfax Board of Supervisors Chairman Sharon Bulova said, “I look forward to working with the chief to create a Citizen Review Board in Fairfax County.” Supervisors John Foust and Penny Gross also expressed support for civilian review. Hunter Mill Supervisor Hudgins regrettably refused to respond when asked, according to CCPA. The initiative went nowhere. What is the board afraid of? Action by the supervisors to protect the public and stop putting the county police above the law is long overdue.

Whysoquiet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the fairfax connection....
>
> #On Aug. 29, another civilian was shot to death in
> a situation that, on the face of it, did not
> justify the use of lethal force. Mr. John Geer was
> shot to death standing in the doorway of his home
> with no visible weapon according to reports from
> his father and neighbors.

Go listen to the audio above, he had the gun on the staircase behind him and the door and had threatened to use it. Watch the video, they tried to get him out of the house, and then he flinched to fast and they shot him. Good riddance!

Well... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whysoquiet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > From the fairfax connection....
> >
> > #On Aug. 29, another civilian was shot to death
> in
> > a situation that, on the face of it, did not
> > justify the use of lethal force. Mr. John Geer
> was
> > shot to death standing in the doorway of his
> home
> > with no visible weapon according to reports
> from
> > his father and neighbors.
>
> Go listen to the audio above, he had the gun on
> the staircase behind him and the door and had
> threatened to use it. Watch the video, they tried
> to get him out of the house, and then he flinched
> to fast and they shot him. Good riddance!

Youre an idiot. He didnt have a gun on him. He couldnt even reach it. They shot him by accident or for the hell of it this is nothing but a cover story.

They dont fire a single shot from a hand gun then let him retreat TOWARD the weapon without firing again if they shot because they thought he was pulling a gun.

I really hate it when people make shit up or get the facts wrong and then try to pass them off as what happened. Lets address each of the listed points

Whysoquiet Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> #On Aug. 29, another civilian was shot to death in
> a situation that, on the face of it, did not
> justify the use of lethal force. Mr. John Geer was
> shot to death standing in the doorway of his home
> with no visible weapon according to reports from
> his father and neighbors.

This appears correct on the face of it. However this is based upon his father and a few witnesses that do not have all the information or did not see everything. I am NOT suggesting this was a good shooting, just the people making these statements do not have complete information to say IF this was justifiable or not.

> #Once again, the police are silent on what
> happened.

Yes..its called its under investigation. They do not release everything until they have completed the investigation. It takes time to do. Its the same thing for every investigation. Examples would be the 16yo Mclean HS student found dead or the guy that killed his wife threw her in the river. These are just 2 recent cases of people unhappy about the police not releasing information on the time line the cry babies want.

> Several men armed with the weapons of war, in full battle
> gear, shout orders at a suspect and shoot the
> person to death. It has all the feel of a military
> strike, not civilian law enforcement protecting
> the public. Lethal force seems almost standard
> procedure, not the last resort it should be.
> Consider:

Not sure what this idiot considers "full battle gear and weapons of war". A patrol officer wearing a standard patrol uniform with his standard hand gun? OK, my bad, he is right. A handgun is an evil weapon of war. The only officers at the event prior to the guy being shot in a non standard uniform was the K9 officers. They do wear green tactical type uniforms which is their standard uniform for their job due to the nature of what they do.

> #police are called to the scene by someone
> reporting a domestic disturbance and a man who may
> have a gun;

So its the police fault the girlfriend called saying he had a gun? Is there more information or claims the girlfriend made not made public yet? Maybe somebody should FIOA all the phone calls made from the house, girlfriend, and the calls police made to the house.

Often in these type of events, there are threats made of shooting somebody. Either people threaten to shoot the woman, the officers, or kill themselves. No idea if this was the case but what was being said in the phone call? Strange the girlfriend has never publicly said what she was telling the dispatchers.

> #Mr. Geer has no record of violence and no weapons
> are visible, according to witnesses promptly
> ordered to leave the area—for their safety
> presumably;

All the witnesses could see was a guy standing in his door way. They could not see what he may of had inside the door way or maybe in his waist band. I do not know and neither do the witnesses. And yes the police do clear the area when possible when dealing with a possible armed subject. That's standard as people have tendency to be hit with bullets. Just ask New York city.

> #the Fairfax County PD SWAT officers talk to and
> shout orders to the lone man standing in his
> doorway in shorts to come outside.

SWAT team was not even there before guy was shot.

> He does not and shots are fired by an officer police refuse to
> identify. The suspect is quite dead when police
> ram their way into his home;

I think you are trying to say the guy didn't do what the officer was telling him so he was shot and now the police refuse to identify the officer?

Police have not said yet why the guy was shot and who the officer was. Correct because ITS UNDER INVESTIAGTION. Officers names are not released until the commonwealth attorney's office gets the case and completes their review. This is an improvement actually. The FCPD would never release an officers name involved in a shooting. They now release it after the criminal investigation is completed.

> #then, police throw the shroud of secrecy over the
> scene and the story of what happened. There is no
> official public report, no explanation by FCPD of
> what led to the shooting, and the officer’s name
> is not disclosed.

See above

> #Witnesses and neighbors who spoke to the press
> say they do not understand why it was necessary to
> shoot Mr. Geer. He wasn’t armed, had never been
> a problem and certainly posed no threat to the
> heavily armed officers. (In fact, a detective said
> a gun was found in a holster some distance from
> where he stood.)

I think everything here has been covered already.

> #What happened next is also all too familiar. The
> police say the shooter is on administrative leave
> pending an investigation by … his fellow
> officers. In the 71-year history of the FCPD,
> there has never been independent investigation or
> review by a third party of killings by FCPD
> officers in the line of duty. And, in the 71
> years, no shooter has ever been charged with, much
> less convicted of, any wrongdoing. I outlined
> several other recent, troubling cases in a prior
> column.

This is actually not true. Some of the cases have been independently reviewed by outsiders. It does not make the news if there is nothing there for them to make the news about. The commonwealth attorney also reviews every single case and he is the person and the only person that determines if a shooting is justifiable and if the case should go before a grand jury. It is not up to the police.

As a long time tax paying resident of the county, I only recall two shootings that really had issues. Some people may want to claim more but sorry, you point a gun at the police then they have the right to shoot you.

One case was Dr. Culosi(sorry if I misspelled his name). This was an accidental shooting. Opinions vary on a lot of factors but when it comes down to it, the SWAT officer that killed the doctor did so by accident. That officer had nothing to do with other factors such as the investigation and the use of the SWAT team to start with. None of it had anything to do with the facts considered by the commonwealth when determining to charge him or not. The Department was also very quick to come out and admit it was an accident. They never ever tired to even justify the shooting. From the start they said what it was. The second was the guy on Richmond Highway a couple of years ago that was crazy. Sorry, I do not recall his name or the office's that was involved. This officer was cleared criminally by the commonwealth attorney's office. He was not cleared by the police department and fired for breaking department rules. This case should have probably been presented to a grand jury by the commonwealth but he decided not to. He has never publicly stated why, at least that I have heard. The police department again did not cover anything up. They investigated what happened, presented the case with the evidence to the prosecutor. The police department then fired the officer. The cops can not say no, we are going to charge him after the prosecutor says no. Little known fact is the commonwealth approves any charges prior to anybody being charged with homicide. Every single case.

> #The Virginia Citizens Coalition for Police
> Accountability has long advocated creation of a
> Citizens Review Board of the sort working in over
> 125 large jurisdictions around the country. Such
> boards in fact serve both the public interest and
> the police officers in getting at the truth. It
> likely would be a rare case when such review
> turned up wrongdoing by our otherwise well-trained
> corps. It would be healthy for officers to
> understand that as public servants paid by the
> citizens, they are accountable to the public,
> especially when they use lethal force.

This is complete BS pushed by this group. Most if not all these review boards have caused bigger issues with in the departments and "communities that the boards serve". And lets please look at who makes up this group. Lets ask ourselves what groups are partners with them. How about the history of the people who started it. Most, if not all, are anti police to start with. Some of the residents who started this group here have some very colorful history with the police. It would be nice if they police did talk more because it would be funny to see these peoples reaction.
>
> #A few years ago, Fairfax Board of Supervisors
> Chairman Sharon Bulova said, “I look forward to
> working with the chief to create a Citizen Review
> Board in Fairfax County.” Supervisors John Foust
> and Penny Gross also expressed support for
> civilian review. Hunter Mill Supervisor Hudgins
> regrettably refused to respond when asked,
> according to CCPA. The initiative went nowhere.
> What is the board afraid of? Action by the
> supervisors to protect the public and stop putting
> the county police above the law is long overdue.


Um..none of the board members want anything to do with creating this review broad. They will not say it in public. They will not say it in private to this group. They are politicians after all. They know the results the group would have. No fully informed resident, that is not anti police, wants it either. But keep crying and spending your money.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2013 02:56PM by Mr GFR.

Liberal Logic 28 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Whysoquiet Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > From the fairfax connection....
> > >
> > > #On Aug. 29, another civilian was shot to
> death
> > in
> > > a situation that, on the face of it, did not
> > > justify the use of lethal force. Mr. John
> Geer
> > was
> > > shot to death standing in the doorway of his
> > home
> > > with no visible weapon according to reports
> > from
> > > his father and neighbors.
> >
> > Go listen to the audio above, he had the gun on
> > the staircase behind him and the door and had
> > threatened to use it. Watch the video, they
> tried
> > to get him out of the house, and then he
> flinched
> > to fast and they shot him. Good riddance!
>
> Youre an idiot. He didnt have a gun on him. He
> couldnt even reach it. They shot him by accident
> or for the hell of it this is nothing but a cover
> story.
>
> They dont fire a single shot from a hand gun then
> let him retreat TOWARD the weapon without firing
> again if they shot because they thought he was
> pulling a gun.

Well what can we say, the officer should have aimed higher for his head. Bing, bang, boom, game over.

So, which are you: current law enforcement, retired law enforcement, or family of law enforcement?

Fairfax County is one of only a few comparable jurisdictions that do not have a citizens review board or some mechanism of public accountability or oversight over its police force. Internal review may actually be just as effective as citizen review in terms of reducing police misconduct; but citizen review boards are much, much more effective at winning public trust in a police department than a closed, internal review process is.

At the very least, the department has an obvious problem communicating to the public.

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really hate it when people make shit up or get
> the facts wrong and then try to pass them off as
> what happened. Lets address each of the listed
> points
>
> Whysoquiet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >
> > #On Aug. 29, another civilian was shot to death
> in
> > a situation that, on the face of it, did not
> > justify the use of lethal force. Mr. John Geer
> was
> > shot to death standing in the doorway of his
> home
> > with no visible weapon according to reports
> from
> > his father and neighbors.
>
> This appears correct on the face of it. However
> this is based upon his father and a few witnesses
> that do not have all the information or did not
> see everything. I am NOT suggesting this was a
> good shooting, just the people making these
> statements do not have complete information to say
> IF this was justifiable or not.
>
> > #Once again, the police are silent on what
> > happened.
>
> Yes..its called its under investigation. They do
> not release everything until they have completed
> the investigation. It takes time to do. Its the
> same thing for every investigation. Examples would
> be the 16yo Mclean HS student found dead or the
> guy that killed his wife threw her in the river.
> These are just 2 recent cases of people unhappy
> about the police not releasing information on the
> time line the cry babies want.
>
> > Several men armed with the weapons of war, in
> full battle
> > gear, shout orders at a suspect and shoot the
> > person to death. It has all the feel of a
> military
> > strike, not civilian law enforcement protecting
> > the public. Lethal force seems almost standard
> > procedure, not the last resort it should be.
> > Consider:
>
> Not sure what this idiot considers "full battle
> gear and weapons of war". A patrol officer wearing
> a standard patrol uniform with his standard hand
> gun? OK, my bad, he is right. A handgun is an evil
> weapon of war. The only officers at the event
> prior to the guy being shot in a non standard
> uniform was the K9 officers. They do wear green
> tactical type uniforms which is their standard
> uniform for their job due to the nature of what
> they do.
>
> > #police are called to the scene by someone
> > reporting a domestic disturbance and a man who
> may
> > have a gun;
>
> So its the police fault the girlfriend called
> saying he had a gun? Is there more information or
> claims the girlfriend made not made public yet?
> Maybe somebody should FIOA all the phone calls
> made from the house, girlfriend, and the calls
> police made to the house.
>
> Often in these type of events, there are threats
> made of shooting somebody. Either people threaten
> to shoot the woman, the officers, or kill
> themselves. No idea if this was the case but what
> was being said in the phone call? Strange the
> girlfriend has never publicly said what she was
> telling the dispatchers.
>
> > #Mr. Geer has no record of violence and no
> weapons
> > are visible, according to witnesses promptly
> > ordered to leave the area—for their safety
> > presumably;
>
> All the witnesses could see was a guy standing in
> his door way. They could not see what he may of
> had inside the door way or maybe in his waist
> band. I do not know and neither do the witnesses.
> And yes the police do clear the area when possible
> when dealing with a possible armed subject. That's
> standard as people have tendency to be hit with
> bullets. Just ask New York city.
>
> > #the Fairfax County PD SWAT officers talk to
> and
> > shout orders to the lone man standing in his
> > doorway in shorts to come outside.
>
> SWAT team was not even there before guy was shot.
>
>
> > He does not and shots are fired by an officer
> police refuse to
> > identify. The suspect is quite dead when police
> > ram their way into his home;
>
> I think you are trying to say the guy didn't do
> what the officer was telling him so he was shot
> and now the police refuse to identify the officer?
>
>
> Police have not said yet why the guy was shot and
> who the officer was. Correct because ITS UNDER
> INVESTIAGTION. Officers names are not released
> until the commonwealth attorney's office gets the
> case and completes their review. This is an
> improvement actually. The FCPD would never release
> an officers name involved in a shooting. They now
> release it after the criminal investigation is
> completed.
>
> > #then, police throw the shroud of secrecy over
> the
> > scene and the story of what happened. There is
> no
> > official public report, no explanation by FCPD
> of
> > what led to the shooting, and the officer’s
> name
> > is not disclosed.
>
> See above
>
> > #Witnesses and neighbors who spoke to the press
> > say they do not understand why it was necessary
> to
> > shoot Mr. Geer. He wasn’t armed, had never
> been
> > a problem and certainly posed no threat to the
> > heavily armed officers. (In fact, a detective
> said
> > a gun was found in a holster some distance from
> > where he stood.)
>
> I think everything here has been covered already.
>
> > #What happened next is also all too familiar.
> The
> > police say the shooter is on administrative
> leave
> > pending an investigation by … his fellow
> > officers. In the 71-year history of the FCPD,
> > there has never been independent investigation
> or
> > review by a third party of killings by FCPD
> > officers in the line of duty. And, in the 71
> > years, no shooter has ever been charged with,
> much
> > less convicted of, any wrongdoing. I outlined
> > several other recent, troubling cases in a
> prior
> > column.
>
> This is actually not true. Some of the cases have
> been independently reviewed by outsiders. It does
> not make the news if there is nothing there for
> them to make the news about. The commonwealth
> attorney also reviews every single case and he is
> the person and the only person that determines if
> a shooting is justifiable and if the case should
> go before a grand jury. It is not up to the
> police.
>
> As a long time tax paying resident of the county,
> I only recall two shootings that really had
> issues. Some people may want to claim more but
> sorry, you point a gun at the police then they
> have the right to shoot you.
>
> One case was Dr. Culosi(sorry if I misspelled his
> name). This was an accidental shooting. Opinions
> vary on a lot of factors but when it comes down to
> it, the SWAT officer that killed the doctor did so
> by accident. That officer had nothing to do with
> other factors such as the investigation and the
> use of the SWAT team to start with. None of it had
> anything to do with the facts considered by the
> commonwealth when determining to charge him or
> not. The Department was also very quick to come
> out and admit it was an accident. They never ever
> tired to even justify the shooting. From the start
> they said what it was. The second was the guy on
> Richmond Highway a couple of years ago that was
> crazy. Sorry, I do not recall his name or the
> office's that was involved. This officer was
> cleared criminally by the commonwealth attorney's
> office. He was not cleared by the police
> department and fired for breaking department
> rules. This case should have probably been
> presented to a grand jury by the commonwealth but
> he decided not to. He has never publicly stated
> why, at least that I have heard. The police
> department again did not cover anything up. They
> investigated what happened, presented the case
> with the evidence to the prosecutor. The police
> department then fired the officer. The cops can
> not say no, we are going to charge him after the
> prosecutor says no. Little known fact is the
> commonwealth approves any charges prior to anybody
> being charged with homicide. Every single case.
>
> > #The Virginia Citizens Coalition for Police
> > Accountability has long advocated creation of a
> > Citizens Review Board of the sort working in
> over
> > 125 large jurisdictions around the country.
> Such
> > boards in fact serve both the public interest
> and
> > the police officers in getting at the truth. It
> > likely would be a rare case when such review
> > turned up wrongdoing by our otherwise
> well-trained
> > corps. It would be healthy for officers to
> > understand that as public servants paid by the
> > citizens, they are accountable to the public,
> > especially when they use lethal force.
>
> This is complete BS pushed by this group. Most if
> not all these review boards have caused bigger
> issues with in the departments and "communities
> that the boards serve". And lets please look at
> who makes up this group. Lets ask ourselves what
> groups are partners with them. How about the
> history of the people who started it. Most, if not
> all, are anti police to start with. Some of the
> residents who started this group here have some
> very colorful history with the police. It would be
> nice if they police did talk more because it would
> be funny to see these peoples reaction.
> >
> > #A few years ago, Fairfax Board of Supervisors
> > Chairman Sharon Bulova said, “I look forward
> to
> > working with the chief to create a Citizen
> Review
> > Board in Fairfax County.” Supervisors John
> Foust
> > and Penny Gross also expressed support for
> > civilian review. Hunter Mill Supervisor Hudgins
> > regrettably refused to respond when asked,
> > according to CCPA. The initiative went nowhere.
> > What is the board afraid of? Action by the
> > supervisors to protect the public and stop
> putting
> > the county police above the law is long
> overdue.
>
>
> Um..none of the board members want anything to do
> with creating this review broad. They will not say
> it in public. They will not say it in private to
> this group. They are politicians after all. They
> know the results the group would have. No fully
> informed resident, that is not anti police, wants
> it either. But keep crying and spending your
> money.

...
Attachments:

To GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, which are you: current law enforcement,
> retired law enforcement, or family of law
> enforcement?

Well who are you? I am neither a cop or family member of one. I do have a close friend who is a cop and a neighbor that is also a cop. I discuss things with them a lot. Its very interesting having talked with them about a large range of subjects over the years. I spend a lot of time studying legal issues and the law. I have received and taught police training for my job, no I'm not a security guard. Enough about that. I stay very much informed into what is going on where I live. I post in some of the police related threads to try to clear up misinformation or down right wrong information.

> Fairfax County is one of only a few comparable
> jurisdictions that do not have a citizens review
> board or some mechanism of public accountability
> or oversight over its police force. Internal
> review may actually be just as effective as
> citizen review in terms of reducing police
> misconduct; but citizen review boards are much,
> much more effective at winning public trust in a
> police department than a closed, internal review
> process is.

Just who are you comparing them to? Have citizen review broads helped in some departments? Yes they have in some cases where the departments had a long history of corruption and other issues. Have citizen review broads caused more issues in other departments. Yes, more then they have helped. Fairfax County Police does not have these issues or even come close. Have there been some cases that some people want to jump up and down about crying foul? sure there has been. They have even fucked up a few times. But look at the history of the department. The vast majority of criminal wrong done has been investigated by themselves. They have had no issues prosecuting or firing people that needed it. The FBI has even reviewed some of these cases and had no issues with how the cases were investigated and the conclusions made.

Maybe you should learn how things work better. Ever single possible criminal investigation conducted on an officer is reviewed with the commonwealth attorney. The commonwealth then decides if charges should be filed or not. He alone decides this. The police can not over rule his decision. Then a internal investigation is conducted after and only after the criminal investigation is completed. This would be the IA investigation. Most of the time the IA investigation is done by another person then the person who did the criminal investigation, Why do you ask, because of how the laws are written. Do not forget that a cop has all the same rights as you do under the 4th, 5th, 6th, etc amendments in the criminal investigation. They do not have them under the internal investigation.

Then you have to deal with the personnel regulations of the county and employment laws. The cop can get fired by the department. The department can then be told they have to rehire the cop by the county because they do not feel like the "wrong doing" was enough to be fired for. Are there officers who have jobs currently because of this? a few.

Do some officers screw up? Hell Yes

Do some do things wrong? Yup

Do some break the law? Yes

But the department looks into every single case. They then discipline the officers and some even get fired. Some are found of no wrong doing. Do the vast majority of people not understand the process, yup which causes misunderstandings. Is there a lot of misinformation out there that people believe, yup.

> At the very least, the department has an obvious
> problem communicating to the public.

I agree with you on this. They do a very piss poor job all the way around on this which even causes more issues. It starts as soon as the event starts and they release poorly written press releases or officers do interviews for the press. Some things to remember is the people doing these interviews and press releases are not involved in the cases/events. The only information they have is given to them by supervisors. Sometimes this information is even wrong do to the confusion of what is going on. Also remember the police do not know everything right away, it takes time to figure things out and conduct the investigations. After the first day or two the police stop releasing information until the investigation is done. People then scream there is a "cover up" because the police are not talking or releasing more information. Most of the time they do not have any more information to release. Its the same for any case be it a rape, murder, or a officer involved shooting. Sometimes they do release some press releases with updates but that is only in rare cases. Most of these cases they really are not even releasing new information, they are just clarifying what was released at first. Also releasing to much information then can cause issues prosecuting the case.

Lets look at this case for an example: the officer involved is under a criminal investigation. It is done by the homicide team. The officer has the same protections as you which means he can tell the other cops he has nothing to say to them or he wants his lawyer. NO IDEA IF THIS EVEN HAPPENED IN THIS CASE. Well guess what, he can not be interviewed at that point. This is why it can take a while. The cop is put on administrative leave. Why, because he is under criminal investigation and should not be working until he is cleared or something else. The Neff case is another example. She was charged and going though the court process. She is on administrative leave or restricted duty until the case is over. Why? because she really cant do here job until the court case is over. They department also cannot fire her until the court case is over. Why, because its the county regulations.

Also some things falls under personnel regulations on what type of information can be released. This is county regulations and not police department rules.

People may not agree with this stuff but this is how its done. Its done this way for good reasons based upon laws or regulations. Not everybody will agree with this but then I don't agree with how banks do their business, lawyers do theirs, or the medical insurance industry. But that's my opinion.

Let me ask you this...

Who would be on a "civilian" review broad?

What power would they have?

What information would they have access to?

Who would over see them?

What standards would they be held to?

Who is going to pay for it? How much will it cost?

Lets have a frank discussion on the review broad you want so everybody can see what the issues would be with having one. Maybe you have a plan that would work but I have never seen one yet that would not cause more issues here in the county. Remember, LA, DC, Philadelphia, New York are not in Virginia (some of these places the broads are a joke or failure). They have different state laws and/or county regulations.

So please provide how you envision this would work here for all us residents of the county. Lets discuss how this would affect the county, residents, and the police department. Then lets see who really thinks is a good idea.

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Just who are you comparing them to? Have citizen
> review broads helped in some departments? Yes they
> have in some cases where the departments had a
> long history of corruption and other issues. Have
> citizen review broads caused more issues in other
> departments. Yes, more then they have helped.
> Fairfax County Police does not have these issues
> or even come close.

Fairfax County Police do without a doubt have a long history of inaction and cover ups when their officers unlawfully kill someone. In they 70+ year history they have NEVER charged an officer in a crime for a shooting but theys paid out 10s of millions in probably the last decade alone.

They didnt even remove the SWAT officer from the SWAT unit when he shot that guy by mistake. The only reason the guy was fired a year or two ago after 18 months of inaction was because the Feds said theyd seen enough and were going to open their own investigation which would have resulted in looking at past instances as well. He was fired to save themselves nothing more. Had the Feds not threatened to get involved he would still be on duty today.

There is no possible way to objectively look at the history of unjustified shootings and say there isnt a systemic problem where they dont hold their officers accountable for anything. Most places an unlawful killing is almost assured to be an automatic firing if not criminal charges as well, for FCPD it means youll get a slap on the wrist if that and the family will get paid a couple million that theyll then ask for a budget increase to compensate for.

Liberal Logic 28 Wrote:

> Fairfax County Police do without a doubt have a
> long history of inaction and cover ups when their
> officers unlawfully kill someone. In they 70+
> year history they have NEVER charged an officer in
> a crime for a shooting but theys paid out 10s of
> millions in probably the last decade alone.

Please list the shootings and we can discuss them. There are two I know of as I have stated before. The eye doctor one. There was no cover up. You want to claim there was a cover concerning the shooting then explain your claim. The 2nd one was done on Richmond highway with the nut. Again, no cover up. That cop was fired.

You miss the point that the cops do not decide to charge somebody, ITS THE COMMONWEALTH ATTORNEY.

10s or millions? DO you have something to support your claim?

I recall just reading how the FBI has never ruled a shooting involving an on duty agent as not being justified its history.

> They didnt even remove the SWAT officer from the
> SWAT unit when he shot that guy by mistake. The
> only reason the guy was fired a year or two ago
> after 18 months of inaction was because the Feds
> said theyd seen enough and were going to open
> their own investigation which would have resulted
> in looking at past instances as well. He was
> fired to save themselves nothing more. Had the
> Feds not threatened to get involved he would still
> be on duty today.

You have some facts confused here. The SWAT officer was removed from the SWAT team once the all the investigations were completed. He was not removed right away but then again he was not doing SWAT stuff during that time anyways, he was sitting in an office. He was never fired and is still an officer. He is no longer on the SWAT team. I have my own feelings into this but it was all done with in the state law and county regulations.

The cop from the Rt 1 shooting was fired. Again, the commonwealth decided not to charge him. Why, no idea. The police department found him in violation of department rules and fired him. As far as I know, no law suit was ever filed by the family nor has any money ever been paid reference this shooting. It would have been in the paper if it had. A lawyer was trying to sue on behalf of the family, who did not hire him and the family wanted nothing to do with it. I have not heard of the status on this case as there was a question if the lawyer could even file the suit.

Where do you get the story the Feds threatened to get involved? No really, because I had heard the feds had looked at other cases but never the Rt 1 shooting. So do you have something to back this up?

> There is no possible way to objectively look at
> the history of unjustified shootings and say there
> isnt a systemic problem where they dont hold their
> officers accountable for anything. Most places an
> unlawful killing is almost assured to be an
> automatic firing if not criminal charges as well,
> for FCPD it means youll get a slap on the wrist if
> that and the family will get paid a couple million
> that theyll then ask for a budget increase to
> compensate for.

Read above. What history are you referring to?

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Please list the shootings and we can discuss them.
> There are two I know of as I have stated before.
> The eye doctor one. There was no cover up. You
> want to claim there was a cover concerning the
> shooting then explain your claim. The 2nd one was
> done on Richmond highway with the nut. Again, no
> cover up. That cop was fired.

He was fired because of the Feds threatening to get involved. It took over a year to make the decision, they werent investigating for a year. It happened in what 09 and he was fired in 2011.

> You miss the point that the cops do not decide to
> charge somebody, ITS THE COMMONWEALTH ATTORNEY.

Not if the police hand them a report saying it was fine.

> 10s or millions? DO you have something to support
> your claim?

The eye doctor was almost 3 million alone, the 09 one would have been millions as well if/when they sue, this one will likely be millions too. In 06 there was once that struck and killed a guy on a bicycle but they wont say anything about that. I know there was at least one in 2001, one in 87, two in 79, ome in 78, one in 74 and quite a few in 66 as well. This has been going on for decades.

Thats just the off the top of my head, they have a 70 year history. Im sure theres a lot more but its not something theyre going to advertise and they always do their best to keep everything confidential.

> I recall just reading how the FBI has never ruled
> a shooting involving an on duty agent as not being
> justified its history.

That may be the case, which would be a problem for them as well if that werent true. Considering the type of work they do theres a chance that could be true, if its not though that culture needs to change as well. Just because you have a badge doesnt mean you should get away with murder.

Lack of accountability is a becoming a problem for police forces across the country. Theres a lot of good cops, but a lot of bad ones as well. The bad ones arent being weeded out which is why youre seeing these things more and more.


> You have some facts confused here. The SWAT
> officer was removed from the SWAT team once the
> all the investigations were completed. He was not
> removed right away but then again he was not doing
> SWAT stuff during that time anyways, he was
> sitting in an office. He was never fired and is
> still an officer. He is no longer on the SWAT
> team. I have my own feelings into this but it was
> all done with in the state law and county
> regulations.

Public pressure got him off it, but it wasnt automatic like it should have been. He may be a good guy that made a mistake, but Im sorry his mistake took a mans life. If anyone else did that they would be in jail for years yet he still has his job. Initially FCPD just wanted to suspend him for three weeks and call it even but the Culosi family wouldnt accept that.

At the very minimum an unlawful killing mistake or not should be an automatic firing. Really charges should be filed considering a life was taken, but a firing has to be the minimal action that is taken short of proving your gun malfunctioned and went off on its own which we know wasnt the case.

It may have been within regulations but that really shows how systemic the problem is. Thats essentially state sanctioned murder when theres no consequences for the action. The last thing you want is a police force feeling theyre above the law or they arent accountable for their actions. Its breeds an us vs them mentality some officers like to display. Again theres good cops, but the bad ones dont get weeded out like they should be.

> The cop from the Rt 1 shooting was fired. Again,
> the commonwealth decided not to charge him. Why,
> no idea. The police department found him in
> violation of department rules and fired him. As
> far as I know, no law suit was ever filed by the
> family nor has any money ever been paid reference
> this shooting. It would have been in the paper if
> it had. A lawyer was trying to sue on behalf of
> the family, who did not hire him and the family
> wanted nothing to do with it. I have not heard of
> the status on this case as there was a question if
> the lawyer could even file the suit.

Again it just shows how deep the problem runs that the Fairfax Commonwealth Attorny wont file charges. FCPD fought tooth and nail to even prevent that officers name from being released.

> Where do you get the story the Feds threatened to
> get involved? No really, because I had heard the
> feds had looked at other cases but never the Rt 1
> shooting. So do you have something to back this
> up?

Saw it in an article about it it may have been Forbes that had it but cant remember. Threatened was probably the wrong word, it was probably described more as were considering because it had been well over a year with no action taken and in the end took 18 months to fire him.


> Read above. What history are you referring to?


Their extensive history of killing unarmed civilians with little or no consequences that you can find if you put the effort into it. They bury the information so you have to look for it but can find old articles dating back to at least the 60s and Im sure it happened in the 50s as well.

If you want you can even find all the brutality ones beating handcuffed suspects, or officers lying under oath and being admonished by the court, arresting people for drinking in bars, special treatment for DUIs for officers and their wives,

Five months after Fairfax police killed John Geer, more delays ahead in resolving case
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/02/07/five-months-after-fairfax-police-killed-john-geer-more-delays-ahead-in-resolving-case/

On a sunny afternoon in late August, a distraught John B. Geer stood in the doorway of his Springfield townhouse and chatted for close to 50 minutes with two Fairfax County police officers, who had their guns drawn and were trying to get him to come out of the house. Then one of the officers fired one shot into Geer’s chest and killed him. For the first time here, we will hear a detailed version of the shooting from a close friend of Geer’s who saw the whole thing.

More than five months later, Geer’s family and friends, his neighbors and fellow taxpayers have no idea why this happened. And now they are in for a longer wait. On Thursday, Fairfax County Commonwealth’s Attorney Raymond F. Morrogh said his office had two potential conflicts of interest in the case, which he declined to describe, and sent the case to the U.S. attorney in Alexandria for further review. This is justice further delayed, and The Post’s Justin Jouvenal has the family’s reaction here.

Legal conflicts aside, this case never seemed that complicated, compared with some of the other high-profile police shootings in Fairfax County in recent years. One shooter, one victim, in broad daylight, about 15 feet apart, with three or four officers and perhaps a half dozen citizens in the Springfield cul de sac watching. Morrogh told me Thursday that he had been waiting for all the reports from the Fairfax homicide unit, which investigates its own police shootings as it does all shootings in the county, and that “I understand the family wants it resolved.” He said he was still receiving reports as recently as last week, and that he hadn’t gotten the autopsy report until December.

But he said there was “a potential conflict with one of the witnesses and this office,” another conflict “concerns some information and I just can’t get it,” so he sent the case to the feds. He could not explain what the conflicts are, or why it is keeping him from making a decision, and presumably we will learn all that down the road. Acting U.S. Attorney Dana Boente said he could not even confirm he was handling the case, much less estimate how long it would take the Justice Department to look into the Fairfax prosecutor’s office’s problem. Morrogh said it was possible the feds could determine there were no conflicts and the case would return to him, or it could stay with Boente for a final decision on charging the still unnamed officer.

This means more waiting for people like Jeff Stewart, Geer’s best friend, who stood about 70 yards from the shooting and couldn’t believe it as he watched it unfold. It also means more delay on another crucial question: Why did the Fairfax police wait an hour after the officer shot Geer in the chest before going in to render aid? That was not a decision made by the patrol officers who responded to the call, but likely was made due to safety concerns because Geer had told police he had a gun, and they were waiting for SWAT officers and other technology before entering his home on Pebble Brook Court, not far from Pohick Road in the Pohick Hills neighborhood.

“I’m happy it’s getting an independent, supplemental look,” Stewart said Thursday night, about the case moving from Fairfax to the feds. “Maybe we can get some answers. If this had been two citizens, how long do you think this would have taken before one was in a jail cell? This is confusing and frustrating.”

Earlier Thursday, Stewart recounted how he had spoken with Geer, 46, his longtime friend, co-worker, and former neighbor on Pebble Brook Court around 10 a.m. on August 29, and they’d decided to go hit some golf balls later at Burke Lake. Geer was a kitchen designer and builder. Stewart said he called Geer again around 11:30 a.m. to say he was ready to go and Geer told him, “I’m not going to be able to go golfing.”

His girlfriend and mother of his two children, Maura Harrington, had informed him that she was moving out, and Geer had responded by tossing her belongings on to the front yard, Stewart said. He also had begun drinking, Stewart said. Harrington came home to retrieve their two daughters and when he refused to calm down, she called police, Stewart said.

The police came around 2:40 p.m., police officials said, asked Geer to come out of the house and he refused. He had told them he had a gun, Stewart said, though he was wearing a white shirt and gym shorts and it didn’t appear to be on him. When Stewart got there, he stood next to a police officer about 70 yards away.

“John was stalemating them and he thought he had it under control,” Stewart said. “‘I’m not coming out, you’re not coming in,’” Stewart said Geer was telling them. “He’s talking to them very calmly.” Two officers stood, with guns drawn, in front of him, and two more officers were crouched behind them.

“He’s got his hands on the top of the storm door, and it’s open about six inches,” Stewart said. He said Geer’s gun was holstered, in the house, on the floor. “All of a sudden he starts lowering his hands. His hands move down the door, level with his face, and the cops shot him once in the chest.” He said he could tell from where Geer clutched his body that was where he’d been hit.

“I turned to the officer next to me,” Stewart said, “and said, ‘You guys just shot an unarmed man.’” Stewart wondered, “What could [Geer] have possibly said that made that officer feel his life was in danger?

Geer turned, closed the door and went inside. The officers used a bullhorn to try to convince Geer to come out, but he did not. Stewart said he asked the police why they didn’t go in to help the man they’d just shot, and “they said they heard him inside the house. Well they didn’t hear him for very long, not by the evidence I saw when I cleaned up.”

Stewart said it took an hour for SWAT officers, a mobile command center and a small tank to arrive on Pebble Brook, and that he couldn’t believe they weren’t going in. “I drew the floor plan [of Geer's house] for the entry team,” Stewart said. He said he told the officers, “I don’t think this is necessary. He’s either bleeding to death or he’s dead.”

The police made entry at 4:30 p.m., about an hour after the officer shot Geer. Geer was dead.

The next day, Stewart returned to clean up the scene behind the front door. He said the blood told the story. After Geer was shot, “he spun into the door, pulled it shut with his left hand, and collapsed immediately,” Stewart said the blood trail indicated. “Then he got up, you can see the bloody handprints, went about three feet, and collapsed again.” And his body was found less than five feet from where he’d been shot, Stewart said.

The police won’t discuss the specifics of the case while it’s under investigation. After the criminal investigation is completed and ruled upon by prosecutors, the internal affairs investigation formally begins, though they have already taken some statements from witnesses. Chief Edward Roessler Jr. said Thursday he has met with the Geer family, expressed his condolences, and “I’ve communicated with the family a few times afterwards. It’s my goal to hold myself accountable to them, to communicate with them and they have my contact information. I’ve been trying to keep them in the loop as best I can, that’s my responsibility to them.”

With these actions, Roessler is following in the footsteps of his predecessor, David Rohrer, who spoke repeatedly with the family of optometrist Salvatore Culosi, killed in January 2006 by Officer DeVal Bullock, and he traveled to Fredericksburg to personally apologize to the ex-wife and stepdaughter of David Masters, killed in November 2009 by Officer David Scott Ziants. Both officers were cleared of criminal liability by the Fairfax prosecutors, but Rohrer suspended Bullock for three weeks without pay and took him off the SWAT team, and he fired Ziants. As with Geer, both Culosi and Masters were unarmed.

But this case is still in its early stage, and this stage has lasted longer than any other police shooting in the 15 years I’ve been covering Fairfax. Morrogh and his predecessor, Robert F. Horan Jr., typically have ruled on officer-involved killings in about two months. In the Culosi case, Horan cleared Bullock in two months, saying the shooting was accidental. In the Masters case, Morrogh cleared Ziants in two and a half months, ruling that Ziants believed Masters was armed and attempting to run over another officer. And in the most complex police shooting case, where a Prince George’s County officer shot and killed Prince Jones near Falls Church in September 2000, Horan cleared Officer Carlton Jones in less than two months. In other cases where the decedents were armed and aggressive, Morrogh has ruled as quickly as one month and long as three and a half months. Since 2006, there have been 15 fatal shootings by Fairfax police officers, including Geer, and the other 14 were all ruled justifiable. No fatal shooting by a Fairfax officer has ever been found unjustifiable by a Fairfax prosecutor in the department’s 74-year history.

Morrogh said he wasn’t intentionally delaying anything. “I did the best I could as quickly as I could,” the prosecutor said, “and I just couldn’t rush it. No one’s doing anything nefarious. In fairness to everybody, I need to see in writing what’s occurred, I want to see the reports, I want to see the pictures.” He said the police “worked as expeditiously as possible,” and that he got his first reports in November, but when he had everything, “It couldn’t be resolved. Whoever makes the decision has to consider this additional material” which he hasn’t been able to get due to the unspecified conflict. “I don’t have everything I need to make the decision,” so Boente will decide whether Morrogh gets that material, or handles it himself.

Meanwhile, others are weighing in. Fairfax Supervisor Pat Herrity (R-Springfield) said, “It’s taking longer than I would like to get to an answer. I think we owe it to the Geers to get them an answer.” Herrity said that “I have talked to Ray [Morrogh] about it. His response is he wants to take the time it takes to get it right.”

Michael Lieberman, a lawyer representing Geer’s estate, said he filed a notice of claim with Fairfax County on Tuesday, a legal requirement to preserve the ability to sue. He also said he filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the county seeking the police reports and the name of the officer, and was told they would not be released, per Fairfax’s longstanding policy of not releasing such information during an investigation. They may be turned over during subsequent civil litigation, as they were in the Culosi lawsuit, which Lieberman also handled. In that case, Fairfax’s legal department put the Culosis through nearly five years of legal torment, battling the victim’s parents with motions and appeals, before finally agreeing to pay a $2 million settlement on the eve of trial in 2011.

Lieberman said Thursday night that he’d heard from Morrogh about sending the case to the U.S. attorney and the possible conflicts of interest, and he did not know what Morrogh was referring to when discussing the conflicts.

The unnamed officer who shot Geer is also waiting for a resolution, and remains on administrative duty with pay. Fairfax lawyer John Carroll, who represents the Fairfax police union, is representing the officer and said he could not comment on the case.

John B. Geer, 46, was shot and killed by a Fairfax County police officer in August 2013 while standing in the doorway of his Springfield townhouse.
Attachments:

To GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, which are you: current law enforcement,
> retired law enforcement, or family of law
> enforcement?

Well who are you? I am neither a cop or family member of one. I do have a close friend who is a cop and a neighbor that is also a cop. I discuss things with them a lot. Its very interesting having talked with them about a large range of subjects over the years. I spend a lot of time studying legal issues and the law. I have received and taught police training for my job, no I'm not a security guard. Enough about that. I stay very much informed into what is going on where I live. I post in some of the police related threads to try to clear up misinformation or down right wrong information.


MR. GFR, YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT. WITH ALL THE SPECIFICS YOU ARE QUOTING, YOU ARE A FAIRFAX COUNTY POLICE OFFICER...........OR YOUR NEIGHBOR IS IN IA AND HE GIVING YOU PRIVELEGED INFORMATION IN VIOLATION OF DEPARTMENTAL POLICY. SO WHO IS YOUR NEIGHBOR? INITIALS WOULD BE FINE SINCE IT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO VERIFY. OTHERWISE, I CALL BULLSHIT THAT YOU ARE NOT A FAIRFAX COUNTY POLICE OFFICER. OR YOU ARE PART OF THE PROPAGANDA MACHINE OF FAIRFAX COUNTY POLICE AND COME ON THIS WEBSITE SIMPLY TO TRY TO DISCREDIT POSTS AND SHOW THE POLICE IN A GOOD LIGHT.

Posted by: Mr GFR ()

The cop from the Rt 1 shooting was fired. Again, the commonwealth decided not to charge him. Why, no idea. The police department found him in violation of department rules and fired him.

MR. GFR FORGOT THE BEST PART OF THE ABOVE STATEMENT. AFTER THIS OFFICER WAS FIRED, THE HEAD OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS (ED O'CARROL IS THE RUMOR) WAS TALKING TO ANOTHER OFFICER. RUMOR IS THAT HE SAID THAT THE OFFICER SHOULD HAVE APPEALED THE DECISION........BECAUSE THE OFFICER WOULD HAVE WON AND GOT HIS JOB BACK. THIS JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT THE DEPARTMENT DOES CAVE IN TO POLITICAL PRESSURE AND MANUFACTURES SO-CALLED EVIDENCE TO SCREW THE OFFICER. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THE OFFICER SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FIRED, BUT FOR THE HEAD OF IA TO SAY THAT CIVIL SERVICE WOULD HAVE GIVEN THE OFFICER HIS JOB BACK IS A CLEAR INDICATION THAT IA DOES SOME SCREWED UP SHIT.

You're calling Mr. GFR a cop for "all the specifics he he quoting" but you know of rumors from the department's I.A.?

What GFR says is totally true. He just left out the one part of the story. He is either a cop or his IA neighbor told him. Which is it? He said he is not a cop. So his IA cop neighbor is talking? Or he lied, and is a Cop. Just saying.

Where is the Justice for John Geer? FCPD has stonewalled and now has turned over the Investigation to the Feds. How complicated can this be? A cop shot an unarmed man in the middle of the day in front of witnesses!

They all knew he was unarmed! His father was standing there, his buddy was standing there. The cop who shot him, murdered him in cold blood and should be punished. NOW FCPD is complicit in denying John Geer and his family timely Justice by delaying and now passing the investigation over to the Feds. This happened last August!

We need a Police Review Board that is independent and answers to the Board of Supervisors! This case alones demands it be set up and in acted to review cases along with the FCPD. Justice delayed is Justice Denied!

How can this be happening in Fairfax County in this day and age?

Ten months of silence in the Fairfax police shooting death of John Geer

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/07/08/ten-months-of-silence-in-the-fairfax-police-shooting-death-of-john-geer/

"Several law enforcement sources have indicated to me that the officer involved in the case may have had undisclosed issues of his own, that Morrogh (Commonwealth's Attorney) sought his personnel files and that the police refused to hand it over."
Wait, the police are withholding information from lawful authorities and getting away with it? Shocking ...

"In addition, the officer who did not fire his weapon while standing next to the shooter may have prior perjury issues, one source said."
Perjury issues? A police officer? Nah, you don't say!

The Feds have sat on this for over 5 months now, so I'm sure that means there's nothing serious behind the blue wall the FFX Co. cops have erected.

You asked a question in May about John Geer.

Where are the trolls that talk about worm food, etc.

So tired of the crap

"... gunned down by an unnamed officer, who remains on paid desk duty."
So at least the killer is being productive!

"Morrogh said last week that he could not discuss the case since he was no longer investigating it. Acting U.S. Attorney Dana Boente said he could not even confirm the case’s existence. Fairfax County police Chief Edwin Roessler Jr. said that the FBI was reviewing the case, but had no more information than that."

That's 3 very well paid, powerful men who are taking no responsibility for their own actions or the actions their organizations.

They should be ashamed of themselves, but good men no longer reach these high offices. If we care about our Republic, severe repercussions are in mandatory!

In 6 days, it will be one whole year since:
- Geer was shot at the threshold of his home with his hands up
- The police let him bleed-out for an hour, giving no aid
- They drove a tank through his front door, followed up with an assault team

AND NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED.

Thank God it was just a white guy.
Nigger Mike Brown gets top billing but white people don't garner any attention unless they shoot criminal niggers.
If this guy was a nigger, the whole country would no his name. And that's a fact, jack!

Happy Anniversary! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In 6 days, it will be one whole year since:
> - Geer was shot at the threshold of his home with
> his hands up
> - The police let him bleed-out for an hour, giving
> no aid
> - They drove a tank through his front door,
> followed up with an assault team
>
> AND NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED.

and what did the guy do? I mean, why did police want him? I missed this at the time and it will take too long to go through this thread and look through articles. Can you just tell me?

This thread was posted last year!
It is dead and gone!
Get a life, TERD ball!
Attachments:

LAST YEARS POSTED THREAD? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread was posted last year!
> It is dead and gone!
> Get a life, TERD ball!

Reading comprehension apparently isn't a requirement to join FCPD.
The shooting happened a year ago and STILL there are no answers. That's the point.
Let's try to find out why there are no answers:
- Fairfax prosecutor Ray Morrogh sought the shooter's personnel files and the police refused to hand it over.
- Morrogh said there was “a potential conflict with one of the witnesses and this office”
- The officer who did not fire his weapon while standing next to the shooter may have prior PERJURY issues
- Morrogh booted the case to federal prosecutors
- U.S. Attorney Dana Boente said he could not even confirm the case’s existence
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/07/08/ten-months-of-silence-in-the-fairfax-police-shooting-death-of-john-geer/

So that blue wall is just as dirty and effective as we all knew. This is a simple thing situation: Lying cops covering up for their inept friends who can't control their trigger fingers.

What a disgrace!

LAST YEARS POSTED THREAD? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread was posted last year!
> It is dead and gone!
> Get a life, TERD ball!


*TURD

yG3Np Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LAST YEARS POSTED THREAD? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This thread was posted last year!
> > It is dead and gone!
> > Get a life, TERD ball!
>
> Reading comprehension apparently isn't a
> requirement to join FCPD.
> The shooting happened a year ago and STILL there
> are no answers. That's the point.
> Let's try to find out why there are no answers:
> - Fairfax prosecutor Ray Morrogh sought the
> shooter's personnel files and the police refused
> to hand it over.
> - Morrogh said there was “a potential conflict
> with one of the witnesses and this office”
> - The officer who did not fire his weapon while
> standing next to the shooter may have prior
> PERJURY issues
> - Morrogh booted the case to federal prosecutors
> - U.S. Attorney Dana Boente said he could not even
> confirm the case’s existence
> Source:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/
> 07/08/ten-months-of-silence-in-the-fairfax-police-
> shooting-death-of-john-geer/
>
> So that blue wall is just as dirty and effective
> as we all knew. This is a simple thing situation:
> Lying cops covering up for their inept friends who
> can't control their trigger fingers.
>
> What a disgrace!


Exactly correct. The Police Chief and IA will not discipline the officer because in doing so, it will say that the officer was wrong and it was an illegal shooting. So the cop keeps his job. Now on the other hand, if they indict the cop on charges, FCPD will say that the officer was in the wrong and fire him. BLAH BLAH BLAH. It is all politics and nobody has a hair on their ass to do the right thing. Basically, FCPD does what it wants-when it wants. SAD.

So what is happening with this Murder by Cop case? The last we heard it was kicked from Fairfax County to the Feds. So has it just languished with the Feds in hope it will be forgotten? Anyone have any info?

Do we need to riot and loot the local 7 Eleven and Best Buy to get some movement... That's it!! lets all meet at Fairfax Corner.. have a couple of Vendi Lattes and loot REI and Arhous until we get some answers

Latest news please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what is happening with this Murder by Cop case?
> The last we heard it was kicked from Fairfax
> County to the Feds. So has it just languished
> with the Feds in hope it will be forgotten?
> Anyone have any info?
>
> Do we need to riot and loot the local 7 Eleven and
> Best Buy to get some movement... That's it!!
> lets all meet at Fairfax Corner.. have a couple of
> Vendi Lattes and loot REI and Arhous until we get
> some answers

Who cares? Witnesses stated the cops explicitly said that if he dropped his hands they'd open fire. He decided to drop his hands and he got hit by the solitary round fired. This doesn't happen to people that listen. Defend him all you want, but in the end he killed himself.

It's been precisely 1 year since the unarmed John Geer was shot with his hands up at the door to his own home.
No investigative information has been released (including any present officers' names) because the cops have perjury issues (shocker!) and therefore the Commonwealth's Attorney passed the buck to the feds.
Have the feds done anything in the past 7 months since they got the case? Nah. Doing "work" isn't exactly their M.O.
Look on the bright side though,the FCPD ninja team got a chance to use their tank to knock down an innocent person's front door :-)

I wonder why there is no rioting and looting?

Hmmmm.......... Sharpton and Jesse don't give a shit about white folk.

Sounds about right given the state of things

One Year Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's been precisely 1 year since the unarmed John
> Geer was shot with his hands up at the door to his
> own home.
> No investigative information has been released
> (including any present officers' names) because
> the cops have perjury issues (shocker!) and
> therefore the Commonwealth's Attorney passed the
> buck to the feds.
> Have the feds done anything in the past 7 months
> since they got the case? Nah. Doing "work" isn't
> exactly their M.O.
> Look on the bright side though,the FCPD ninja team
> got a chance to use their tank to knock down an
> innocent person's front door :-)
> src="http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uplo
> ads/2013/10/JohnGeer11.jpg" alt="Hey John, Whatcha
> Doin In There?">

This makes me so sad.
I've been a victim of ffcpd perjury so I totally feel ya. Now I'm watching ffcpd militarize their department... Just glad we moved out to the mountains.

Everything is out the window now that FCPD is so short on personnel. Officers are quitting the department in droves, and they can't recruit enough new people, so they've removed the written exam from the application process to help attract more ethnic minorities that they feel wouldn't normally pass the exam. Basically if you can run a 2 minute physical course and have never killed anyone you can get hired there now. So remember, the next cop that shoots someone may not be able to spell "gun."

Fairfax County hires former Mark McGwire lawyer in John Geer police shooting case:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/11/25/fairfax-county-hires-former-mark-mcgwire-lawyer-in-john-geer-police-shooting-case/

What a waste of money. I'd stop paying my property taxes in protest, but I'm sure FCPD would show up at my home, shoot me in my threshold, let me bleed out for an hour, knock down my door with a tank, and then cover the whole thing up.

Ain't Nobody Got Time Fo Dat!

Like the guys on fox news said he should stayed at his house and watch tv nothing would of happen he made abad choice

By now you've heard the man wasn't armed! He owned guns apparantly, thats it.

There was NO PORBABLE cause to have him come out of his house nor let entry. No warrant - you don't aim your weapon at a man at his door , especially if his hands are up! The police report says he was shot and then barricaded himslef within. All he did was was close his door after being shot for NOOOOOOOO REASON!

http://patch.com/virginia/kingstowne/man-dies-in-policeinvolved-shooting-in-springfield

According to the release, a patrol officer fired a single shot at some point during the negotiation. The shot struck the man, and he then barricaded himself inside the residence.