Hey there's a checkpoint on 28 going north getting off of 66. Be careful out there

Yeah, don't want to go there it's a huge one

Fairfax County Police officers will be joined by Virginia State Troopers from Division VII, in conducting a larger-than-usual sobriety checkpoint to deter and apprehend intoxicated drivers on Saturday, June 20 from midnight until 3 a.m. Sunday in the Sully Police District.

What could people do to really make those things ineffective?

I'm against drunk driving, and I'm against child molestors, and I'm against illegal drugs, but I'm also against police intrusions against law abiding citizens in the name of "protecting you from (any of the evil fears mentioned above)"

Could some sort of flash-mob sort of thing bog down a checkpoint to the point where it creates so much traffic that the bosses and county officials deem them ineffective and even counterproductive? If thousands of drivers get stopped, and huge mile long backups occur, and only 1 or 2 drunk drivers get nabbed, wouldn't someone with even a marginal amount of reason or logic say that they are useless and actually cost more than the benefits?

I'm all for increased patrols targetting drunk drivers. I just don't like the "police state" taste that these checkpoints leave in my mouth, figuratively speaking.

I'm all for arresting criminals. I just don't like it when they use things like "drunk drivers" or "pedophiles" or "terrorism" as ways to increase police powers against average, law-abiding citizens.

I especially don't like how so many weak-willed, fearful people will defend these practices by saying ignorant shit like "if you aren't doing (name the crime) you have nothing to worry about". Because I remember a time in this country where I didn't have to worry about being stopped and questioned by the police for the very reason that I am not committing any crimes. That argument of "if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you don't have anything to worry about" doesn't even hold water. I don't need to be hassled by the cops for the very reason that I'm not doing anything wrong. If I display suspicious behavior, then the cops need to stop me. If not, they should allow me my freedom and liberty and leave me alone.

Stopping hundreds of people under the guise of "stopping drunk drivers" is like having the police search every home in a neighborhood in hopes of finding at least one resident in possession of drugs, or illegal weapons, or whatever.

I wonder how long before people are manipulated by fear into believing that this is a good idea, too?

Right the fuck on man. I can't believe these things are legal. when they stop you (and i know this for a fact) you are under arrest by the very deffinition of the term. Total bullshit. It would never happen, but it would be funny as hell if everybody just kept on driving right through it.

Noob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right the fuck on man. I can't believe these
> things are legal. when they stop you (and i know
> this for a fact) you are under arrest by the very
> deffinition of the term. Total bullshit. It would
> never happen, but it would be funny as hell if
> everybody just kept on driving right through it.

I like the way you are thinking.

However, we wouldn't want to create a situation where a police officer or a law-abiding citizen is put into a dangerous situation.

Rolling through a checkpoint without stopping is dangerous for all parties. An unaware cop or even a cop that tries to stop the driver might get run over. It is also possible that a trigger happy cop might pull an IHOP on the driver.

Don't forget, the individual cops are just people like you and me, they aren't the problem, they just work for a system that seeks more power and control over time. Most cops even acknowledge that they work for a broken system, but they all have altruistic reasons for being cops.

I'm just thinking there must be a way for people to express their unease with police checkpoints by overwhelming those checkpoints.

This site points out where they are. If enough sober, licensed, no-outstanding-warrant people make a point of taking a joyride through these checkpoints, raising the ratio of people stopped to arrests, it might prove them to be useless or not cost-benefitial.

Anyone else have more refined ideas?

They would move. It wasn't a serious idea hence the precursor "it would be funny as hell if" you see. If you are looking for a refined idea, i suggest you look elsewhere. Why this forum is full of nothing but redneck racists.

It won't work. The police do not set a quota and only sit at the checkpoints until a predetermined time. If 1000 people get through in 3 hours, then if 1500 people show up all that will happen is 500 of them sit there for nothing. I'm with you in spirit tho.

A better idea would be to get all those volunteer harassers to invest a little money each in a warning system and tell the whole world where the police are doing checks. If NOBODY showed up for the checks, then that would be a screaming message that they are a waste.

Keep in mind, when the press release comes out this week with the stats, the checkpoint will be considered a success by the police and advocates if even one person was arrested for intoxicated driving. So, the opposite of your strategy is the answer.. deprive them of even the one person.

And before pgens jumps in, I meant quota at the checkpoints... even he can see they take place for a specific length of time no matter what.

Like you say, they don't set a quota. They run the checkpoint for a set amount of time.

Sometimes, they might stop 100 cars. Other times they might stop 1,000 cars, and close up shop with a mile-long backup that suddenly just dissipates because the cops haul ass back to their stations or the donut shop.

My point is, if the stats can be tweaked by flash-mobbing the checkpoint with legal upstanding drivers, so that the ratio of people stopped to drunk drivers and other "miscellaneous arrests" is so high that it becomes statistically ineffective, someone is going to say they don't work.

If the cops set up a checkpoint on Gallows and Old Lee, they will probably have several hundred cars roll through in the 3 hours they are there. Flash-mobbing that checkpoint may only create a more noticeable backup while the throughput stays about the same (but it would still influence the ratio of stopped cars to arrests.)

If the cops set up a checkpoint at Beulah and Browns Mill, they might normally stop a few dozen cars, but with a "flash-mob" they could be busy the entire time with legal, sober, drivers.

But the point isn't to overwhelm them, per se, it is to flood the checkpoint with law abiding drivers, driving down the number of scofflaws, making their arrest ratios seem meaningless or ineffective.

This sort of idea can't be perfected by a person who had a few drinks and is tapping away on a keyboard late on a saturday night/sunday morning. It's just a genesis, a beginning of an idea. It needs to be added onto and refined.

I still don't think it would work. Have you looked at the stats? The number of people busted even now for anything is so small as to make unlikely you will be able to stop the ordinary people who aren't involved in your game from being busted (your game doesn't work if you can't prevent the general public from driving into the checkpoint... at that point you lose the controlled element you need to make your point). Also, it's not likely you could get together a thousand people who are fully documented in all ways, unexpired, and totally aware of their status, with no warrants or outstanding overdue anything. More than a few of your cohorts would be busted statistically for SOMETHING. The police are proud of the fact that these stops turn out to be mostly about busting suspended licenses and expired stickers so taunting them that they don't catch many drunk drivers doesn't work,.

Also, the stats for those checkpoints say many hundreds of people are pulled over at each one, not "dozens". You won't be able to achieve your objective because the only places they hold them at are already heavy through-points. I understand your reasoning but it's not realistic. The better use of the communication technology you would have to use to draw the people to the checkpoint, should instead be used to keep as many people away from it as possible.

And I assure you I haven't been drinking. I just woke up from a ten hour nap and to boot I am aware of all the facts involved in the things you are theorizing about. But, I like to theorize so have at it and I will continue to peck away until a workable scenario exists.

Flash mobbing a checkpoint? Have fun wasting gas while sitting there bored to tears.

Hey, instead of "mobbing"...why not just everybody stay the fuck home? Or take a walk or ride a bike. 'Murca's love affair with the automobile needs to end anyway.

The cops would think, "Damn, we held a sobriety check point, and nobody came!".

I wonder how long before people are manipulated by fear into believing that this is a good idea, too?

Unfortunately the people have been manipulated by fear. The daily obscenity of what goes on at every airport is more evidence of it. Anyone can be detained for 24 hours at the whim of some government rent-a-cop.

The last thing the county needs is more drunks on the road, but I am of the strong opinion that the checkpoints are invasive and the current BAC level of .08 is far too low. I shouldn't really share this information with random strangers, but here is a foolproof way to beat a DUI in any state.

Prepare a solution of equal parts bleach, vinegar and octane booster(any brand will do) Mix these together and then find a VERY HARD SHELLED candy or gum, Jolly Ranchers or Lifesavers worker. Allow the candy to soak in the solution at least 48 hours then seal the candy in a plastic bag and take with you in the car.

Keep this candy nearby. If you've had a little too much to drink and get pulled, pop one into your mouth but do not, I REPEAT DO NOT CHEW. Just hold in your mouth so the officer cannot see and when you are give the breathalyzer BLOW AS HARD AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. I am not a chemist but the solution on the candy will put you BAC at .50 or above. Now that means you'll have to take a trip to the station for another test. Your not out of the water but follow closely.


You'll have to do a little more reading, but at the station, insist you are a hemophiliac or a Christian Scientist and absolutely cannot be poked with needles. Be cool and consent to a urinalisys. When the tester produces the cup, say that you ALWAYS number one and number two at the same time, would an officer mind holding the cup while you take a dump? Inform the arresting officer you are a female to male trangender and you need a female officer at least present.

Again, I know drunk driving is a bad thing but so s police so I hope this helps.

What's worse:

1. A drunk guy driving on a familiar major road with stoplights.

2. A drunk guy driving down unfamiliar side roads with no stop lights, near houses, to avoid a DUI checkpoint.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

3) A drunk guy who garners 3 DUIs in a 10 year period, but finds a place of solace online where he can crow about it.

______________________________________________
I have had to change the addresses to my retaliatory blogs over half a dozen times.

I don't have any problem with checkpoints themselves, only their effectiveness... I just think they are a waste of time and resources.

We'll get the stats on this one and it will be almost a thousand cars stopped and one or two DWI's. Contrast that with their MUCH more effective targeted enforcement, where the cops are on the road and may stop a hundred people but forty of those will be DWI's and most of the rest will be other charges.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still don't think it would work. Have you
> looked at the stats? The number of people busted
> even now for anything is so small as to make
> unlikely you will be able to stop the ordinary
> people who aren't involved in your game from being
> busted (your game doesn't work if you can't
> prevent the general public from driving into the
> checkpoint... at that point you lose the
> controlled element you need to make your point).
> Also, it's not likely you could get together a
> thousand people who are fully documented in all
> ways, unexpired, and totally aware of their
> status, with no warrants or outstanding overdue
> anything. More than a few of your cohorts would be
> busted statistically for SOMETHING. The police
> are proud of the fact that these stops turn out to
> be mostly about busting suspended licenses and
> expired stickers so taunting them that they don't
> catch many drunk drivers doesn't work,.
>
> Also, the stats for those checkpoints say many
> hundreds of people are pulled over at each one,
> not "dozens". You won't be able to achieve your
> objective because the only places they hold them
> at are already heavy through-points. I
> understand your reasoning but it's not realistic.
> The better use of the communication technology you
> would have to use to draw the people to the
> checkpoint, should instead be used to keep as many
> people away from it as possible.
>
> And I assure you I haven't been drinking. I just
> woke up from a ten hour nap and to boot I am aware
> of all the facts involved in the things you are
> theorizing about. But, I like to theorize so have
> at it and I will continue to peck away until a
> workable scenario exists.


I'd venture a guess that any "flash mob" of a checkpoint that contained a high saturation of FFXU posters would most likely result in the promotion and civic lauding of all officers involved, once all the paperwork was finished.

I'm just sayin....

There is no "proof" that checkpoints save lives, only the certain logical knowledge that they do. If we did a better job as participatory citizens, castigating as social outcasts those who continue to drink and drive (or drink and fight, etc.) some of the "violations" of our "civil liberties" would be largely unnecessary. But we don't, so they are. To the lowest common denominator of human behavior we all must tread...

Pet peeve, I know. We all have 'em. So flame away. Even you, Ink-tard.

______________________________________________
I have had to change the addresses to my retaliatory blogs over half a dozen times.

People make stupid mistakes, DUIs are just one of them. One time is enough, two times you should be locked up for at least six months, and the third time you should be brought before a firing squad.

Fail Safe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People make stupid mistakes, DUIs are just one of
> them. One time is enough, two times you should be
> locked up for at least six months, and the third
> time you should be brought before a firing squad.


And apparently to a select few mentally unbalanced asswipes, posting within 4 minutes of you means I AM you.

I'm just sayin....LOL

______________________________________________
I have had to change the addresses to my retaliatory blogs over half a dozen times.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2009 05:12PM by fairfaxdude.

I think the checkpoints are great. Police all stuck,sitting in one location, GREAT!

Everytime one these checkpoints goes up I always get a text or call from somebody who has gone threw one. Word of these checkpoints spreads like wild fire to nearby bars and parties. Just do what everybody else does and go around them,

I'd rather have all the cops sitting in one place I know then driving around not knowing where they are.

As for the flash mob, the rule at most roadblocks is that if traffic backs up more then ten minutes they open the roadblock up until traffic is back to normal.

The checkpoints are not so much to "catch DUI's" as they are highly visible signs that the police are doing something about drunk driving and deter.

Didn't the Nazi's also have checkpoints?

The stats for the June 12th Sobriety Check Point (SCP) (Reston District) a few weeks ago was 792 stopped with two arrests and three miscellaneous offenses. Nine Officers and six auxiliary Officers participated.

The May 29th Sobriety Check Point (SCP) in McLean (Dranesville District) had only 537 motorists pass through with only one arrest and a miscellaneous charge.

Again, Eight Officers and six Auxiliary Officers were used for three hours.

792/2
537/1

These, in my opinion, is a piss-poor ratios.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still don't think it would work. Have you
> looked at the stats? The number of people busted
> even now for anything is so small as to make
> unlikely you will be able to stop the ordinary
> people who aren't involved in your game from being
> busted (your game doesn't work if you can't
> prevent the general public from driving into the
> checkpoint... at that point you lose the
> controlled element you need to make your point).

I see your point. Since the stats are already miserable, there's not much point in trying to make them any worse. How much worse could they get.

> And I assure you I haven't been drinking. I just
> woke up from a ten hour nap and to boot I am aware
> of all the facts involved in the things you are
> theorizing about. But, I like to theorize so have
> at it and I will continue to peck away until a
> workable scenario exists.

I wasn't accusing you of having a few drinks. I was talking about myself. I had 3 beers while watching a movie before I came onto this forum last night.