Commercial Development at Dulles Airport May Impede Herndon’s Metro Station Area Plan
http://herndon.patch.com/blog_posts/commercial-development-at-dulles-airport-may-impede-herndons-metro-station-area-plan#photo-13397403

Just think what a cargo hub would do to the traffic on the roadways?

Looks like MWAA's stewardship made our local airports less competitive, and now they are looking at sources of income other than more air fare fees. Maybe somebody should have said something when MWAA made the Silver Line a double priced mess, for which MWAA must pay 4.2% of the resulting cost (and we will pay most of the rest). MWAA was already struggling with the cost of its AeroTrain (completed in 2010), and now the Silver Line is more expense.

So, surprise!!! Now we are going to be competing with MWAA, that has hundreds of acres of pristine land, for development dollars. Isn't that just grand. And now we can pay to expand the roads to support a cargo hub to serve that development too. What, ROADS? Yes, roads. Of course, one of these days we are likely to be paying for a government freight rail line there, too. Oh well!

Correction - MWAA pays 4.1%. Also, this 4.1% must come from non-Dulles Toll Road toll funds.
...

Don't hold your breath on a government freight rail link to IAD. Freight rail in the US is totally in private hands and makes a good profit. For example, Norfolk Southern (NS) , for example, is building an intermodal (container - truck and rail) terminal on Charlotte Airport property. Conversations with NS for a presentation I'm making to a Railway Age and Marine Log intermodal conference in Baltimore in April indicate they expect little rail-air interface there. According to the NY -NJ Port Authority Newark Airport is adjacent to a maritime terminal and rail line but there usually is little direct rail interface at an airport. Don't expect it at IAD soon - a new line would have to be built up here from around Manassas. Dulles has been a major cargo terminal for years for stuff like Maryland crabs to Europe but as Northern VA is not a manufacturing center cargo "hub" here would be mainly aircraft to aircraft except for specialized commodities. The big issue is that MWAA should not be running a toll road or a commuter rail access - Newark and Chicago airports don't run their rail or highway access. Why does our authority?
...

Good information, Mark - thanks.

Some years back, MWAA got the Dulles Rail / Silver Line project going, with its proposal to manage construction, and pay mostly with Dulles Toll Road toll funds.
http://www.mwaa.com/file/CorridorProposal.pdf

At the time, the toll increases that would be needed were made to seem small, so a lot of people thought that was a good idea. Now, of course, we have discovered that the toll increases will be so great, that Virginia is giving 300 million taxpayer dollars to bail out this rail line that hasn't even opened yet. I keep pointing out that the design-build costs of the Dulles Rail / Silver Line are about two times what they should be, resulting in crippling costs and huge finance costs as well, but nobody seems to care. They'll care pretty soon, as the tolls and taxes go up, and the services go down - but by then, it will be too late to do anything but pay.
...

I like this statement Bob: "Now we are going to be competing with MWAA, that has hundreds of acres of pristine land, for development dollars. Isn't that just grand." Incidentally, this FAA Reauthorization Act giving MWAA the power to commercially develop Dulles was signed into law in February of 2012 but MWAA didn't mention this to anyone during the time opting in/opting out of Phase 2 was being debated. Now that Fairfax and Loudon are locked in MWAA suddenly springs this on everyone. My research subsequent to the article indicates that the Secretary of Transportation will sign the lease amendment. Our only hope is to get Governor McDonnell to put the brakes on this and give us time to voice our concerns.

Fuck Herndoras and their "plans".

They also have their panties in a bunch because WaWa is going to build a station on Rte 606 in Loudoun County about 1/10 mile from the Herndon border. Herndon is complaining this will also screw up their metro plans.

I guess I am missing something, perhaps someone can help me out here. Isn't the area they are describing in Herndon already developed? There's lots of office buildings, hotels, and other things in that space already. What exactly would this impede?

"The Town of Herndon would have a difficult time attracting new businesses here when a business owner could simply travel a couple of miles up the road to undeveloped, essentially tax-free property."


Something tells me trying to open businesses up on a small bit of land right by the airport which is largely only accessible by the toll road isn't going to be a big winner. I doubt this will really impact anything if it even happens.

On a side note, the Dulles Corridor Metrorail project website is a complete abomination. Not just in looks but more importantly in the information it has on it. What a joke. Wikipedia is 100x more informative & useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_%28Washington_Metro%29

lolwtf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The Town of Herndon would have a difficult time
> attracting new businesses here when a business
> owner could simply travel a couple of miles up the
> road to undeveloped, essentially tax-free
> property."

If the town of Herndon has problems attracting new businesses its because they're the town of Herndon, don't blame airport development.

Its widely know that Herndon is one of the worst places in Nova to start a business. Bunch of regulation-happy fascists who will hinder you every step of the way.

One thing to determine is the identities of the groups and individuals who would benefit from this particular little MWAA land deal.

Meanwhile, Mr Potter has been President and Chief Executive Officer of MWAA since June, 2011; Mr. Curto was appointed to the MWAA Board in January, 2011, and has been the Board Chairman since November, 2011; Mr. Davis was appointed to the MWAA Board in November, 2010, and has been the Board Vice Chairman since April, 2011.

These guys were not schoolkids, and they did not just get appointed or hired to the MWAA board yesterday. All three of these guys should have been removed from MWAA along with the others that were shown the door. But all they got was a few minutes of embarrassment in front of a Congressional Committee in November 2012.

Here is a nice summary of important points from the November 16, 2012 Congressional hearing.
http://youtu.be/25nTDQvy5F4

Despite that, for some mysterious reason they were spared, and they retained their high positions.

Given their high positions at MWAA, something tells me that these three had, and still have, a great deal of influence over what the Board sees, considers, and decides. As for the Congressional games, one may not need to look much further than their Congressional oversight committee. They looked Very Stern at the hearing, but they have done NOTHING.

They plan a mixed-use development at the airport. Mixed use means people will live there. Who the fuck would want to live at an airport (besides people who like planes, or pilots/flight attendants)? There is a lot of noise associated with an airport as well as bright lights all night. I would think they might have a problem getting people to live there.

A convention center would be cool though.

How come everytime this guy posts anywhere he is always against MWAA. Did they fire him or something? Did they touch his no no spot? Why you mad bro?

The Loudoun County rail tax districts are related to this mystery.

Loudoun May Pitch Tax District to Pay for Rail
Consultant to Help Craft Proposal to Present to Board of Supervisors
loudouni.com, June 7, 2010
By Jason Jacks
(Article was originally located here, but loudini.com is gone now.)
http://www.loudouni.com/news/2010-06-04/loudoun-may-pitch-tax-district-pay-rail#comment-4204

In this article, nearby landowners H. Chris Antigone of Dulles Gateway Associates, and Eric Wells, CEO of WestDulles Properties, were quoted as being surprised to learn of a rail tax district. Other nearby landowners were reported not to have responded to emailed questions about that. However, Loudoun BOS Chairman Scott York said that the BOS would be exploring all options, including a tax district. Loudoun’s Deputy CFO Ben Mays was quoted saying the taxing options would be limited until business developed around the Rt 606 and Rt 772 stations. And the article said that a consultant was preparing a report for the LC BOS. So people had to have been looking closely at the Rt 606 location issue at that time.

But then, Loudoun County's rail tax districts completely vanished from all discussion for two years, not to reappear until just before Loudoun County's final Phase 2 decision on July 3, 2012.

Given the situation that Loudoun County faces now because of MWAA's development plans, one really has to wonder about that. Was it just a pro-rail agenda, or was it worse than that?

Looking at a Google map, it seems to me that the land at the north end of Dulles Airport, containing the WMATA rail yard that is planned there, and the Metrorail station and the Metro parking garage that are planned there, and the commercial zone that is being contemplated around the generally south side of the intersection of the Dulles Greenway and Old Ox Road, should be ceded to Loudoun County, and taxed and maintained by Loudoun County. The Airports Authority has shown itself to be incompetent and unworthy to manage the Dulles Rail / Silver Line Metrorail project, and I do not think it should be managing this commercial zone either.

The property was condemned and taken for an average of $500 per acre around 1960; it should be ceded and returned to Loudoun County at a comparable price now, allowing for land value inflation since 1960.

There will be limits to the height of anything that can be built on that land, because it is about a mile and a half north of the northern end of the Dulles Airport runways. This will also make it a very noisy place. But, it is generally unimproved, open land, ideal for development, it is at a limited access road ramp and a future Metrorail station. It will be worth the price to Loudoun County, I think, and the collection of Loudoun County business, rail district and general land taxation there will make the arrangement more fair to surrounding municipalities.

Also, the land generally to the west side of the Rt 606-Dulles Greenway interchange should be ceded to Loudoun County as well..
...

Loudoun Opt Out was aware of this MWAA land development scheme and let the Loudoun Board of Supervisors know about it well in advance of their vote. Chairman Scott York denied there was anything in the works, but the developers claim to have been working with county staff on these plans for years. Sen. Black introduced legislation to place a legislative check on Gov. McDonnell's approval of the amendment, but it was killed in committee. http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?131+sum+SB1362

How could Chairman Scott deny anything was in the works after the FAA Act had been signed in Feb. 2012 giving MWAA the power to commercially develop Dulles? Sen. Black's bill may have gone too far. The Governor would not allow his discretion to be encumbered by having lease amendments subject to General Assembly approval. I would hope the Governor would impose conditions based upon his own initiative given that the Commonwealth of Virginia has exempted MWAA from taxes. That gives the citizens of Virginia the right to say that any commercial development will have conditions attached to it. The Federal law can't mandate that Virginia sign the lease amendment as is.

Daniel Davies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Loudoun Opt Out was aware of this MWAA land
> development scheme and let the Loudoun Board of
> Supervisors know about it well in advance of their
> vote. Chairman Scott York denied there was
> anything in the works, but the developers claim to
> have been working with county staff on these plans
> for years. Sen. Black introduced legislation to
> place a legislative check on Gov. McDonnell's
> approval of the amendment, but it was killed in
> committee.
> http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?131+su
> m+SB1362

Is there anyway that MWAA and the Dulles airport tax free status can be overturned or amended so that any new business that opens on airport property that has no direct effect on flights could be taxed by Loudoun County? Dave or Bob help me out here

Certainly our government and its managing agencies such as MWAA should not be in the commercial real estate business. The land should be returned fairly to private ownership.

I think that any Airport property that is contemplated for use as commercial land, should be ceded to its original owners, their successors and heirs, if such can be found, as private land in Loudoun or Fairfax County as appropriate according to its exact location, at a per-acre price equivalent to the average $500 per acre that was paid when it was taken around 1960, allowing for the increase in the value of unimproved land, with appropriate allowance for improvements such as homes, barns, etc, that its owners might have had on the land when it was taken, all of this at present rates equivalent to its zoning and use when it as taken around 1960. If such original owners, successors and heirs can not be found, or do not wish to repurchase the land, then the property can be auctioned at rates appropriate to their commercial value today, as private land in Loudoun or Fairfax County as appropriate according to its exact location. The ceded land would then be governed and taxed according to the laws of Loudoun and Fairfax Counties, with any additional regulations appropriate to its proximity to an airport and its runways, etc.

Joe,

First of all the Virginia code would have to be amended by the General Assembly. Va. Code Sec. 5.1-172. Exemption from Taxation states that MWAA "shall not be required to pay any taxes or assessments upon the airports or any property acquired or used by the Authority under the provisions of this act or upon the income therefrom." With regard to Business Professional and Occupational License taxes, as well as zoning regulation, I don't think those would apply to MWAA absent the approval of the Federal government which actually owns the property and is just leasing it to MWAA. I have been told several times now that MWAA would have to pay some type of payment in lieu of Fairfax and Loudoun County property taxes on leasehold improvements but no one has shown me any code sections or any other proof that MWAA is subject to county taxes.

Thanks Dave, I'll read the code. If I can find anything about the amending of it I will e-mail Wolf, Kaine and Warner. Fat chance i know but got to keep trying. Wouldn't it be sweet if Virginia could buy the land from the feds then the BOS could start telling Jack Potter to take it or leave it like he did with the Silver Line negoations!

I hope they do the right thing. But I don't think they will... I think you had better put some serious political pressure on these guys, or they'll flim-flam you in a hot second..

Kaine is the one who gave MWAA the Dulles Toll Road, and helped get this disaster started in the first place, and Warner was brought in to support the Rail project back when it almost got scuttled.

Governor McDonnell made some noises, but in the end he said NOTHING about the excessive prices that are very visible in this rail project, particularly the 2.4X price estimate for the Rt 28 station, and the 2X price estimate for the five Phase 2 parking garages.

In my opinion, all three of these guys will be perfectly happy with MWAA ripping this region off, as long as it benefits them and their parties. And I think MWAA knows this, and has a trick 'solution' planned. And although that 'solution' will fool enough people long enough to get approved, ultimately it won't make Northern Virginia very happy at all.

Thanks.

That's a lot of property sitting vacant and not providing tax revenue.
I did send letters and received the usual canned response but will endeaver to perservere. Where is Minchew and his eminent domain buddies or is that just for the so-called little people that he breaks out eminent domain?

Bob you seem to be good with numbers so please correct me if I make a mistake here. Say there is 550 acres at the airport at a value of 100k per acre equals 1,235 dollars a year per acre, times 550 acres that's 6792,50 dollars per year per acre, over 50 years that's 33,962,500 dollars laying fallow because it's federal property leased by the MWAA.

People should BEWARE. Businesses and developers are going to be playing every game to push for gold-rush level development on the airport land under MWAA. Money doesn't talk - it swears.

Loudoun County bought a 101.3-acre parcel in Ashburn for $13.5 million in 2004, and sold 75.4 acres of it in 2012 for $20 million. $20 million for 75.4 acres is $265,252 an acre for unimproved land. So unimproved land around there might sell for about $265,000 per acre.

If such land is developed and close to an active Metrorail station, its value will be much higher, and of course tax assessment will be higher. I saw a tax estimate for this property of $200,000 a year just as vacant land - for 75.4 acres, that's about $2,652 tax per acre every year, for unimproved land - and I saw a tax estimate for this property of $16 million a year (for 75.4 acres, that's $212,202 tax per acre every year) once it is in operation.

I think that much of the higher tax figure would be state and federal tax, so I am not certain how much of that figure the Counties will receive, and I also read that this particular land was gerrymandered out of the rail tax district at the last minute. Still, this example shows how much money Loudoun and Fairfax Counties stand to lose if such properties are instead leased on federal land by MWAA, in unfair competitive conditions.

joe brewer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks.
>
> That's a lot of property sitting vacant and not
> providing tax revenue.
> I did send letters and received the usual canned
> response but will endeaver to perservere. Where is
> Minchew and his eminent domain buddies or is that
> just for the so-called little people that he
> breaks out eminent domain?
>
> Bob you seem to be good with numbers so please
> correct me if I make a mistake here. Say there is
> 550 acres at the airport at a value of 100k per
> acre equals 1,235 dollars a year per acre, times
> 550 acres that's 6792,50 dollars per year per
> acre, over 50 years that's 33,962,500 dollars
> laying fallow because it's federal property leased
> by the MWAA.

Joe,

This week I am sending letters to Governor McDonnell, Senators Kaine and Warner and Congressmen Wolf and Connolly. If MWAA wants to be a commercial developer, it should be subject to the same regulations and laws that other commercial developers are, i.e. no unfair advantages! It's too bad the Loudoun County and Fairfax County Board of Supervisors are asleep at the switch on this issue. I can only presume that the various members of these boards don't have any business experience and don't realize how having tax-exempt status and being exempt from zoning regulations would confer an advantage on any entity wanting to commercially develop land.

Unless you know that they have no business experience I would leave that part out Dave. Helping with the facts and the reminder of said is the way to go. I think the people are the ones who are asleep or do not have any business experience otherwise that be raising their voice and sending e-mails. I did get a reply from senator but it was his canned talking points mostly about the sequester. Good Luck!

Politicians just want to get their hands on this money for their parties. They may push MWAA out of the way, but the money will still be stolen from the Counties if it benefits the parties. Loudoun County will suffer the worst - but its so-called 'leaders' will do just fine, for some mysterious reason. The news media will of course talk about jobs. Any questions about double prices will of course be met with the usual 'whistle and look the other way' response that we always see.

Watch for gold-rush overdevelopment, followed by lackluster business, followed by our so-called 'leaders' saying "Ohhhh, ain't it awful! Who could have FORESEEN this?" - and the news media will just be reporting the Metro breakdowns.

Yep, you're right Bob. Surprise, surprise, the Silver Line has been delayed (again).

Silver Line opening delayed until January
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1218980.html

Yes, thank you I know. I commented on that thread this morning. Our "Friend" has been commenting again the Metro Rail Projects.

The statement in the article is misleading. The businesses themselves would pay the normal income and business license taxes but MWAA itself is still tax exempt under state and Federal law. Everything I said in my Connection article remains true:

"MWAA is tax-exempt under both Virginia and federal law and thus can unfairly compete with private landowners. MWAA does not pay state or federal income taxes, county business license taxes, or county real estate taxes. Any businesses that locate on the Dulles Airport property won’t be part of a special Phase II tax district and won’t pay a dime toward defraying the cost of building the Metro Silver Line. As if that isn’t enough, MWAA is not subject to county zoning laws and has no incentive to offer “proffers” which are voluntary agreements by a landowner to go above and beyond what zoning laws require, e.g. planting additional trees in a development."

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2013/mar/26/letterairport-authority-gets-business/

Sean Connaughton from the Govenors office sent me a reply that it is a federal issue and that there is nothing that the state can do about the taxes on the property.

He is wrong on two fronts. Whether he knows he is wrong is a different story. First, Virginia granted MWAA exemption from STATE income taxes. We can take that exemption away now that MWAA has decided to become a commercial venture rather than merely running an airport. Two, Virginia could attach conditions to the MWAA lease amendment if we wanted to. Virginia governors must sign, and have signed, every amendment to MWAA's lease with the Federal government.

If Leesburg Today was correct in that April 4, 2013 report 'Metro Garage Proposals Head for Hearing' saying that federal legislation has granted MWAA the ability to build non-aviation uses on its property, by teaming with a developer to lease the property for taxable development, then I'd like to know how and to whom the taxation would be assigned. Would the land be treated as though it is taxable by the state and county that surrounds it? And how would MWAA benefit from that? I think I smell another lie - much like the story about how the lack of any solid Tifia loan agreement isn't important, even though we have already contracted for part of Phase 2 - because no big Phase 2 construction will happen very soon. We are just being strung along, I think, until it is too late.

Metro Garage Proposals Head For Hearing
Leesburg Today, April 4, 2013
http://www.leesburgtoday.com/news/metro-garage-proposals-head-for-hearing/article_44d08a80-9d31-11e2-9fba-001a4bcf887a.html

Also please note that Virginia independently granted a state income tax exemption to MWAA pursuant to Va. Code § 5.1-172. Virginia can take away this exemption from state income tax now that MWAA has decided to become a for-profit commercial entity rather than a mere steward of Dulles Airport.

Interesting reading

http://www.bruhns.us/civic/DullesRail/Dulles-Rail---Silver-Line-overcost-report---Bruhns.pdf

I noticed the dulles worldwide project that was coming has all but stopped. Anyone know what the status is? it looked like a nice project with some new restaurants on 28.

Dulles Worldwide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I noticed the dulles worldwide project that was
> coming has all but stopped. Anyone know what the
> status is? it looked like a nice project with some
> new restaurants on 28.

This is why
http://www.leesburgtoday.com/news/dulles-world-phasing-changes-clear-committee/article_f490514e-bc03-11e2-b272-001a4bcf887a.html

Dulles World Phasing Changes Clear Committee
http://www.leesburgtoday.com/news/dulles-world-phasing-changes-clear-committee/article_f490514e-bc03-11e2-b272-001a4bcf887a.html

Although it was far from unanimous, the proposed changes to the phasing of Dulles World along Rt. 28—to accelerate construction of the development’s residential units—have passed the muster of the Transportation/Land Use Committee and are headed to the full Board of Supervisors.

The committee voted 3-2 Friday to forward the application with a recommendation of approval. The action signaled a change from the discussion at the full board last month, when supervisors called the plan a “bait and switch” from what was promised by the developer and a majority of the board indicated they were unlikely to support the changes.

With only three supervisors in support during the committee meeting, approval from the full board is far from certain, but it seems some supervisors were pleased by a decision by the developer to commit to build at least 30,000 square feet of retail uses on the ground floor of the multi-family units. The developer also would be required to finish construction of the interchange at Rt. 28 and Innovation Avenue before the first occupancy permit is issued.

Supervisor Suzanne Volpe (R-Algonkian) noted that many decisions were made before this board took office, including the adoption of new Rt. 28 development policies and approval of several rezoning in the area. Those items, along with the impact of the tax districts designed to pay for the construction and operation of Metro’s Silver Line in Loudoun, create a situation where the county has to work with the landowners in the area.

“One thing I know my constituent are looking for is for the tax districts to be successful. And that it not falling on the backs of people as far away as Lovettsville, Bluemont and Lowes Island,” Volpe said. “We have to look at the realities, we have to get road infrastructure built, and we have to get buildings on the ground to have this tax district be successful or it will fall on all of our backs.”

Volpe, Chairman Scott K. York (R-At Large) and Supervisor Geary Higgins (R-Catoctin) supported the application during the committee’s review, but Higgins noted he was “reserving final judgment” until the application came before the full board.

Dulles World was approved by the previous Board of Supervisors for more than 3 million square feet of office space; a hotel; more than 400,000 square feet of retail; and 1,265 multi-family units. It was pitched as a premier commercial development project that would capitalize on the proximity of the Metro rail stations, with residential units that would appeal to the young professional, thereby limiting the impact on schools and other county resources.

The 1,265 units are planned to be 900 square feet each and are estimated to create approximately 235 new school children for the county.

The proposed changes would not alter the development totals—only the order and timing of construction.

Under the new request, Dulles World is seeking to break the phasing of their development into several parts. As proposed by the Planning Commission, the first portion of development would allow for up to 475 multi-family residences with only the newly promised 30,000 square feet of retail required. Then developer would be able to build another 275 residential with 500,000 square feet of non-residential space, of which 250,000 must be office. Once the developer reaches 1 million square feet of non-residential, 500,000 square feet of which must be office development, it will be able to build an addition 275 residential units. Finally, once 1.5 million square feet of non-residential development is constructed, the final 240 residential units may be built. The remaining development on the property would be non-residential to meet the final build out numbers.

Supervisors Janet Clarke (R-Blue Ridge) and Ken Reid (R-Leesburg) repeated concerns expressed last month that the requested changes were coming too soon and would not guarantee the delivery of the commercial-based development promised by Dulles World.

“It’s only been two years [since the development was approved],” Clarke said. “I just cannot understand why now suddenly you need this change. The economy is picking up. Metro is a great attraction.”

Clarke said she had been told that “you need residential before you can attract the retail,” and noted that was a familiar refrain recently. But she pointed out other developments that are being successful in the current market. “This is just too many residential units being moved up too soon.”

Loudoun Supervisors Approve Kincora Proffer Changes To Get Roadwork Under Way
http://www.leesburgtoday.com/news/loudoun-supervisors-approve-kincora-proffer-changes-to-get-roadwork-under/article_bc254e20-d43d-11e2-b061-0019bb2963f4.html

Construction of a critical missing link in the Ashburn-area road network could be under construction as early as August, following action by the Board of Supervisors last night.

The vote to approve changes to the Kincora Village proffers was the last step needed to seal a deal with the Virginia Resources Authority for a $36 million loan from the Virginia Transportation Infrastructure Bank to complete the four-lane extension of Pacific Boulevard from Gloucester Parkway north to Russell Branch Parkway. In conjunction with the construction of the Gloucester Parkway link between Pacific Boulevard and Loudoun County Parkway—a project to be funded by the county and repaid by the developer—road improvements are expected to take as many as 15,000 vehicle trips off Waxpool Road each day by providing a new east-west route for Ashburn residents.

The loan will be repaid by those who purchase homes in Kincora Village and a key change in the proffers is to allow the developers to build residential units more quickly. Phasing limits that linked construction of residential units to the developer’s progress in building commercial buildings were removed.

The developers can build 1,300 multifamily units but must pay $5,462 for each as debt service on the state loan. Additionally, the development will have 100 price-controlled affordable dwelling units that will not be subject to the fee. A per-square-foot assessment on commercial property also will be used to repay the loan as well as reimburse the county for the Gloucester extension.

The 62-acre property is located at the southwest quadrant of the Rt. 28/Rt. 7 interchange and was rezoned for development of a mixed-use town center in 2009. The changes approved Wednesday also remove plans for construction of a baseball stadium on the property, reflecting action earlier this year allowing VIP Sports & Entertainment to build its stadium for the Loudoun Hounds in the One Loudoun development instead.

County planners raised concerns about a number of elements in the proffer changes, including the elimination of the phasing limits, increasing the maximum size of freestanding commercial centers from 60,000 square feet to 90,000 square feet, and reducing in the minimum height of buildings along Rt. 28.

Supervisors supporting the package of changes said the trade-offs were well worth it for area residents.

“The application allows us to start construction of Gloucester Parkway from Loudoun County Parkway to Rt. 28 at Nokes Boulevard in eight to 12 months. The alternatives is 10 to 15 years,” Supervisor Ralph Bouna (R-Ashburn) said, noting the high priority the board has put on completing missing links in the road network and the importance of addressing congestion on Waxpool Road.

Supervisor Eugene Delgaudio (R-Sterling) voted against the changes, saying the project had changed from what he had supported earlier.

Supervisors Janet Clarke (R-Blue Ridge), Shawn Williams (R-Broad Run) and Geary Higgins (R-Catoctin) were absent from the meeting.

Kincora Developer Mike Scott said he expects the state loan to close next month and for work to begin in August.

Current plans call for the Pacific Boulevard and Gloucester links to be completed by 2015.

One outstanding issue is the final alignment of Pacific Boulevard. The current plan would cut through a residence adjacent to the Kincora property and the homeowners have developed an alternative to move the roadway away from the home. County Chairman Scott K. York (R-At Large) said he hoped the Virginia Department of Transportation would consider the alternative.

Kincora Road Plan

This shows the road work planned as part of the Kincora development.
Attachments:

So much for public input on Kincora huh? Did not take long once the shovels hit for the stadium did it. It was 12 million for 2/3rds of a mile on Pacific Blvd so we are getting what, 2 milers worth of road here or is it cheaper for Kincora to build roads so they get more road for their money?

2018 is when the Silver Line is due to roll by Herndon.
You can follow its progress on the Dulles Corridor Rail Project website at
http://www.dullesmetro.com/stations/herndon.cfm.html

Good ideas are good ideas, and I don't want to torpedo them. I wish I could have stopped the cost-skyrocketeers from handing us a double price on a premature rail line, in the Silver Line project - but I'm afraid they got away with it, because the community here doesn't understand what is happening.

So now, the challenge is to make the best of this situation.

We have a number of buildings close to the coming Herndon Metrorail station, and people will want to build more. Have we made the best arrangements for this? How might that be improved? I thought it was a good idea to allow big high density close to the rail station, tapering down to existing levels on the north side near Herndon residences. Several mistakes happened while making this plan - do we have this right, now?

It's a long walk from the Herndon Parkway down to the station's northern access point. Have we made the best arrangement there?

Will traffic to and from the station overload the Herndon Parkway? That traffic will greatly increase because of the station, and because of huge development just west of Herndon. Is there more we can do?

Somebody is plagiarizing posts from Patch, and I suppose other news and discussion websites, and posting them here as though they were made here. This thread is full of them. Also, some of the posts were edited before being posted here.

Sometimes I wonder whether this sort of thing is done for the purpose of destroying a particular discussion site, or whether it is just aimed at breaking up discussion of a particular subject. Either way, it's not good.

Bob Bruhns Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somebody is plagiarizing posts from Patch, and I
> suppose other news and discussion websites, and
> posting them here as though they were made here.
> This thread is full of them. Also, some of the
> posts were edited before being posted here.
>
> Sometimes I wonder whether this sort of thing is
> done for the purpose of destroying a particular
> discussion site, or whether it is just aimed at
> breaking up discussion of a particular subject.
> Either way, it's not good.


Well plagiarizing is never a good thing, but Bob I've gotta tell you. I never even knew you existed until I saw these posts and the articles/blogs you've done. This is very compelling stuff, I hope you plan on putting up your own material here, this site would benefit much from it I think.

aasdfasfdfd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Bruhns Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Somebody is plagiarizing posts from Patch, and
> I
> > suppose other news and discussion websites, and
> > posting them here as though they were made here.
>
> > This thread is full of them. Also, some of the
> > posts were edited before being posted here.
> >
> > Sometimes I wonder whether this sort of thing
> is
> > done for the purpose of destroying a particular
> > discussion site, or whether it is just aimed at
> > breaking up discussion of a particular subject.
>
> > Either way, it's not good.
>
>
> Well plagiarizing is never a good thing, but Bob
> I've gotta tell you. I never even knew you existed
> until I saw these posts and the articles/blogs
> you've done. This is very compelling stuff, I hope
> you plan on putting up your own material here,
> this site would benefit much from it I think.


Sure

Bob's afraid to post anything on the Underground. He knows everyone would tear apart his bullshit nonsense in 3.5 seconds. This man has no facts, just lots and lots of conspiracy theories with links he copies and pastes from other newspapers.

Well it doesn't look like that has been happening, stix impersonator.

What are you - are you somebody who is still angry about being busted on another website for your misbehavior years ago, are you a real estate person who always had ulterior motives, are you an agent of some crooked company that wants to make more profit at public expense, did I upset you with my reports about Bilderberg, maybe you are a political operative who got Very Upset that a friend won the Republican Primary and bumped out Mr. May, or what?

Nobody much reads sites like this, because too many dirtbags like you can spew a fountain of fake names, and drag the whole site down to the level of a middle school playground brawl. It's a big turnoff to people who are actually, you know, intelligent and serious. Maybe I booted you off of a website because of your addiction to that kind of behavior. Who knows. More to the point, who cares? Why don't you give it up and see if you can, you know, maybe get a life?

Bob, judging by this picture of you and the bullshit you spill, I'm guessing your the world's oldest virgin.
Attachments:

Thanks, aasdfasdf.

People typically don't notice the things I talk about - and even if they do, they do nothing about it. All I can do is embarrass the bad guys once in a while, but they still usually manage to laugh all the way to the bank.

The problem is the public - they don't know or care, so jerks like this impersonator often carry the day.

There seem to be some serious people on this board despite the noise fro impersonators and other trolls. A few software upgrades could make a world of difference.

Actually, impersonator, I think that's a really good pic. There are plenty of worse ones out there. But watch out - because you never know when a camera might catch YOU.

Bob Bruhns Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, aasdfasdf.
>
> People typically don't notice the things I talk
> about - and even if they do, they do nothing about
> it. All I can do is embarrass the bad guys once
> in a while, but they still usually manage to laugh
> all the way to the bank.
>
> The problem is the public - they don't know or
> care, so jerks like this impersonator often carry
> the day.
>
> There seem to be some serious people on this board
> despite the noise fro impersonators and other
> trolls. A few software upgrades could make a
> world of difference.

I think its really because you have to look for your articles. You should really consider starting a thread here on the site. I think you'll find the audience to be vocal. (see this thread for example).

Actually, the vast majority of posts in this thread were plagiarized from Dave Webster's Blog on Herndon Patch.

http://herndon.patch.com/groups/dave-websters-blog/p/bp--commercial-development-at-dulles-airport-may-impe1048f8627c

This pattern is also visible in several other threads - they are actually transcribed articles and comments from one or another Patch, or some other news source. (For this reason, several threads should be deleted.) Real people saw outdated information and thought some jerk had just composed the posts - but the posts were months or years old.

Back to this thread - other than posts transcribed at a rate of about one every three minutes from the aforementioned Patch blog, there were a few impersonator posts responding now and then within about four minutes of some other post, and posts from one or another names of the moment. Clearly the troll(s) virtually live here.

In some of the other threads, I did see one or two posters stand up to the troll(s). I don't mean to give offense, but in general, mostly I'm seeing a nearly pointless troll playground with only a few possibly real people scattered here and there. Why people would hang out in such an environment, I am not sure.

Make it harder on the trolls - make class 1 accounts that have to register with a genuine ISP e-mail address with e-mail verification, and introduce an account activation delay, limit the number and frequency of posts for new users, and delete the account and make them start over with the activation delay and new-account post limitations if they abuse the site - and do all that, plus impose much greater limitations on throw-away e-mail account registrants (sorry, they need to be class 2 and lower users if they need to be so anonymous) - and things might improve.

Come on, we've all been down this road. What will happen here at election time, and every time there is anything serious going on (meaning every time the site might actually be useful), is that trolls, dingbats, party operatives and various special and commercial interests and their paid disruptors will tear the place up just like they do everywhere else, but of course worse than the other places, because they can post garbage from a fountain of fake user names, totally at whim. That is the single worst thing that a discussion site can allow, and (sorry) we see the results here just as we have seen them in site after site in the past: stupid obscene elementary and middle-school schoolyard nonsense (and little else). Hence somebody apparently found it necessary to plagiarize the articles and posts from Patch, etc, and make wildly ridiculous attacks on people, in order to draw people in and try to stir up any interest. The plagiarism is plain stupid, and it's a legal issue that the site owner might want to take seriously. The personal attacks are pretty low as well, and it's certainly not desirable discussion companions who have nothing better to do than spew that kind of stuff.

Probably some imbecile will now post some stupid animated gif to demonstrate his/her brilliance and superiority, just like we got sick of seeing - years ago - in place after place that are now... history, if not a bad memory. Who are these losers, anyway? They seem to be everywhere, like mosquitos. Why not put up the equivalent of a mosquito net? I'm amazed that spammers haven't plastered the place with the brain-dead ads for purses and boots, and fake conversational post nonsense for some dating site, porn site or some such, that have ruined so many other sites.

I think this is all some kind of scam to drum up publicity for the Patch. I like the Patch myself and read it almost every day. Funny thing though, I never heard of you Bob until I saw your articles "mysteriously" popping up here. Could that have been you or a Bob Bruhn's groupie?

Congratulations, so-called "Patch Reader", that's an excellent example of a cheap shot, and probably your highest achievement since you flunked kindergarten. Also, you bungled my name.

You may be 'in your element' doing this sort of nonsense here - but in the real world, Patch gets plenty of readers from word of mouth, and from the appearance of its many articles in web searches. I can't speak for Patch, because I don't work there - but I am confident that it doesn't _want_ the losers who never noticed it in any web search before, and only happened to hear about it while basking in the Bronx Cheers and various catcalls here, and THEN decided to go post garbage on it.

As for me, I'm more interested in getting people to wake up to the exponentially exploding ripoffs that are chappening now that mommy and daddy don't run things any more, and the government has gone rogue. If some moron like you wants to cast aspersions at me, it's just another day from my perspective.

I think either someone wants to discredit and/or disrupt this website, or (more likely) someone wants to promote it, and get in the news, etc. It's just silly, self-serving nonsense to be a legend in his/her own mind.

Gee, the post-a-minute charade has paused. How about that. Running out of fake names or something? Or just getting tired of the pointless game?

I've been temporarily fascinated by the strange circus here, but I'm already tiring of it and heading for the door. I was curious to see whether I might have gotten an intelligent reply - but all there was, was simply more of the same worthless trash.

Enjoy.

Bob Bruhns Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for me, I'm more interested in getting people
> to wake up to the exponentially exploding ripoffs
> that are chappening now that mommy and daddy don't
> run things any more, and the government has gone
> rogue. If some moron like you wants to cast
> aspersions at me, it's just another day from my
> perspective.

What do you mean? What ripoffs?

What's Chappening!! Oooo... Raj, I'm tellin' Momma.