Bob McDonnell Finds New and Innovative Way to Hurt NOVA

Tysons Engineer

See the original article at TheTysonsCorner.com

In a previous post we noted our reluctance to give carte blanche to an administration who has been all but malicious towards Northern Virginia’s state funding needs, all the while reaping a disproportionate amount of revenue from our region. Well the state found one item they could gauge us on even more. Congratulations NOVA, your governor wants to weaken you with one more twist of the knife.

The weapon of choice? The gas tax. No, the state GOP doesn’t want to raise the gas tax in order to pay for pet projects… don’t worry there will still be plenty of pet projects … instead they want to get rid of the gas tax all together. I know your first reaction, finally lower costing gas. If you really think that the fuel providers are going to reflect this lower price instead of taking most of it as a windfall profit, then I have a nice property in Florida I’d like to sell you.

Beyond the fact that this will do nothing for what it costs to buy gas in our region, an element tied closer to regional influence than the gas tax, it will harm NOVA by increasing the per resident ratio of funds that comes from us.

Fairfax County and Arlington County drive less untolled road miles per capita than any other counties in the State. These two counties also constitute the least transportation funding from State sources per capita than any other counties in Virginia. Finally, these two counties are the highest Consumer Price Index counties in the state and therefore are the most punished for any increases in the sales tax.

The Great Job Creator Bob McDonnell would have you believe that this new form of tax will be more equitable for payment of future transit projects. Interesting… except for the fact that this administration has all but spurned mass transit projects and instead supported multi-billion dollar highway expansion boondoggles for private interests.

If in fact Governor McDonnell was interested in tying a revenue source to pay for transit, he would remove, all together, any state level tax collection for any county that wants to opt out. In return the state would be lifted of any obligation for any transportation project funding in that jurisdiction. Now each county will pay for what it wants and be held more accountable for it by those who are affected. Fairfax could generate the same amount of funding for transportation it currently receives from the state with a gas tax of less than 6 cents per gallon (nearly 1/3 of what the current tax rate is)… that is how bad the situation has become.

Of Course the GOP would never let their little cash cow in Fairfax and Arlington get away with such a maneuver. Instead of practicing good conservative values, they would rather be hypocritical and steal money from NOVA to pay for projects in jurisdictions that not only wouldn’t be able to afford the project, but in many cases directly opposes the highway sprawl.

What is it that conservatives usually say? More governance locally is always better… something about how less government dictation from above is good for citizens?

I guess McDonnell and the GOP legislature never got that memo.

This is the fact sheet for anyone who wants more information

http://www.governor.virginia.gov/news/viewRelease.cfm?id=1588

You did notice the other part of the story in which the sales tax would be raised & a greater % of all collections would go to transportation, right? Or are you just a terminal DNC shill?

Oh, right - you're a Dem shill. Next time pimp your own link elsewhere...

And you did read the entire post right? The part where I said that the sales tax doesnt correctly relate to transportation needs and disproportionately attacks Northern Virginia since things cost more here than in bum-F virginia right?

Also, you have no idea what political leaning I have. I believe in local governance, something that conservatives use to believe in. How is opposing stealing from Fairfax to pay poor jurisdictions to have massive projects like the Coalfields expressways that they cant afford otherwise, a liberal shill?

Please dear friend, tell me in all your excellent knowledge, how that makes one a liberal and not a conservative.

Republican idiot, you dont even realize your party is becoming socialist.

You mean the part where higher costs should be covered by (gasp) higher collections?

FWIW, where was your ire when TK said "'I think the right way to solve this problem is without a gas tax' Kaine said of Virginia's need to improve its transportation infrastructure."(WTOP, 4/25/06)"

Whine, whine, whine. NoVa gets trans. tax $$$, and whaddwe get? HOT lanes & Metro to Dulles. Flippin brilliant white elephants that we, VA taxpayers, will be covering for decades...

You've posted here & at others (CDF for example) w/your political leanings. You don't believe in anything less than massive government projects with restrictions on how people live.

Are you dense? Seriously I can't believe there are functional human beings this stupid.

You call ME the liberal shill... then say that NOVA should be taxed so that it can pay for poor areas of the state. HAHAHA THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF SOCIALISM YOU FREAKIN MORON.

Secondly, when did I say I am opposed to a proper tax to pay for costs? If you knew anything you would know I am in favor of the tax district for Tysons which directly pays for transportation within Tysons. The point is when government controls from above, it usually ends poorly and hurts the people who are ignored.

The state gives back 19 cents on the dollar of what it collects from Fairfax. 19 cents. The reason we have a shortfall in transportation funding. 19 f-ing cents.

We wouldnt have to raise the gas tax if Richmond would stop robbing us.

The HOT lanes are a private toll road, Richmond didnt help us pay for any of it. All the while plenty of NOVA money went towards the 1.4 billion dollar 460 expansion between to the metropolis of Suffolk.

And as far as the Silver Line? We received 150 million from the State, on a 3 billion dollar project. Wooptie F-ing Doo. I'd rather have control of my own gas taxes.

You are an idiot who knows nothing about the ideology you supposedly support.

And yet YOU are the one who is proposing that Richmond tell us how much money they will take, increase our taxes, and give us less money.

You are hilarious.

Please give me one, just one f-ing example, of how I wanted the federal government to tell me how to live you moron. You dense piece of crap

Income redistribution.

You've been pushing big projects here (and there) for years, so don't suddenly try to deny it (heck, it's even on your "bleg), and yes, governments do propose takings and spendings - it's called "taxes" and "expenditures". Here's a flash for you - that's not new.
Oh, and love the ad hominem. Really supports your (alleged) point.

Barry Obummer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Income redistribution.


You mean Bob Mcbummer? Redistributing the wealth of NOVA to Goochland, Wise County and Richmond?

My last 3 major articles on policy

1) Remove height restrictions allows for better market capitalism. IE remove government restriction = good for economy. Oh yea a HUGE LIBERAL I AM! Look at how socialist I am proposing less regulation

2) Opposing the rise of a gas tax to pay for pet projects and subsidies in areas that cant afford them. WOOOOOO!!!! LOOK AT ME GO WITH ALL THIS LIBERAL PROPAGANDA!

3) Freedoms in Alternative Land uses, once again removing regulations that arbitrarily disallow land owners to use their property in non-peak hours for revenue sources.

The problem is, you are a moron and have never had an intelligent thought in your life. That is why you think somehow that I am for big government oversight and dictating how people should live.

You Moron

You know what's really funny? Someone pretending to be a PE who can't even elucidate a simple disagreement over a political policy w/o simpleton namecalling.
You're a PE? I'm an NBA center...

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You've been pushing big projects here (and there)
> for years, so don't suddenly try to deny it (heck,
> it's even on your "bleg), and yes, governments do
> propose takings and spendings - it's called
> "taxes" and "expenditures". Here's a flash for you
> - that's not new.
> Oh, and love the ad hominem. Really supports your
> (alleged) point.

Are you a fucking moron? You think that "big projects" mean liberal? News flash you troglodyte, that was one of Reagan's biggest policy positions. How about Eisenhower, he thought big and built a highway system.

And are you trying to talk down to me? I am pretty sure you are the one who sounds like a dumbass here. Taxes and expenditures. Hey moron, I am for taxes. I am for them being collected by the county instead of a state that doesnt send it back to the region it takes it from.

Do you get that? Are you seriously this dense to not realize I am the conservative and you are the idiot little troll liberal?

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know what's really funny? Someone pretending
> to be a PE who can't even elucidate a simple
> disagreement over a political policy w/o simpleton
> namecalling.
> You're a PE? I'm an NBA center...


I give respect to people who deserve it, not those who lie about my political or philosophical stance you loser of this debate. And yes I am a P.E. something you will never be because you clearly can't focus longer than 2 minutes on any single subject.

Do you actually have a defense for your socialist support of stealing from Fairfax? or Are you just someone who blindly defends the (R) next to anyones name?

Even funnier is that you'll be back on CDF claiming that the "intolerant hatred" or some such is why FU will "collapse" (your assertion on one of CDFs countless dumped FU threads), when the only one w/intolerance, threats, and general namecalling is...

you.

And I do note that you're unable to comment @ Tim Kaine...

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even funnier is that you'll be back on CDF
> claiming that the "intolerant hatred" or some such
> is why FU will "collapse" (your assertion on one
> of CDFs countless dumped FU threads), when the
> only one w/intolerance, threats, and general
> namecalling is...
>
> you.

So you dont have a defense for your idiotic stance on why Richmond should be allowed to steal even more money from us?

Cool. Obfuscation at its best.

When I wrote that F-U was turning into a hell hole. Someone had taken over all threads and was corrupting them. People were particularly being racist and posting pictures of dead people. I stand by that assertion, and it is a good sign that Cary put an end to all of that crap because this forum has shown its benefit since that time.

Oh, and you'll see me @ the next Wizards game - I'll be the one @ the top of the key...


:)

Taxes = stealing in your world, huh?
What happens when you don't get your allowance? Is that stealing too?

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And I do note that you're unable to comment @ Tim
> Kaine...

Haha interesting clipping. He also proposed, as I do, that each county be allowed to excise their own taxes locally (something the state currently does not allow) in place of those state wide taxes. That way the funds raised locally would be spent on local projects that help that county.

Anything else jackass? Or are you just a worthless (R) shill who doesnt even realize the republican party has splintered and been taken over by jackals?

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxes = stealing in your world, huh?
> What happens when you don't get your allowance? Is
> that stealing too?


You are a freaking moron. It is stealing when taxes of 11 billion dollars are taken from Nova, and only 2 billion dollars comes back to this area.

It is stealing when the state has a 500 million dollar surplus at the same time, and yet says that they cant help pay for the Silver Line any more, therefore requiring toll roads to increase and therefore causing businesses to suffer.

Get it?

I am not against taxes, I am against arbitrary taxes without representation or rightful return. Get it moron?

So you're agreeing w/the Administration that more taxes would be a good thing. Why the namecalling?

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, and you'll see me @ the next Wizards game -
> I'll be the one @ the top of the key...
>
>
> :)


What the hell does that even mean? You are the shooting guard for the Wizards? I care why, that team sucks.

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you're agreeing w/the Administration that more
> taxes would be a good thing. Why the namecalling?


Are you seriously this fuckin dense.

Dude before you attack someone, read what they fucking say. I dont want to be a jerk to you, but you come out and attack me without even understanding my stance? Its in the damn editorial post.

I am fine with people paying their fair share. Things cost money, good things sometimes cost alot of money.

What I am against is that money being excised by a higher government level than necessary, and then going to pay for pet projects instead of returning to the people who pay the taxes in greater amounts than for instance Wise County Virginia.

Get it?

Keep the same level of gas tax, have the same level of sales tax even that he proposes. I dont care about that. What I care about is that Richmond ultimately gets this money and then mis spends it. It should remain local.

Replace the 17 cent state wide gas tax, with a 17 cent Fairfax gas tax. In return the state would no longer build roads for fairfax (something they aren't doing anyways) and therefore Fairfax would spend its own money for its own transportation.

Now please, tell me, in what dictionary that is not conservative values.

In fact, with that method, the gas tax on residents could be LOWERED and still provide the same transportation funding we currently attain, if we remove Richmond from the picture. We could lower the tax 11 cents per gallon. AGAIN another thing that Conservatives support (lower taxes).

So again, please tell me what part of that is not conservative?

Also,

I do apologize for cursing and getting agitated to the point of losing my cool. Its been a rough day, but you should really avoid trying to paint people with broad brushes.

I'm not a liberal shill, Im not a conservative shill. I am a person who has lived in Fairfax for three decades and loves this area even though there are plenty of things that need to be fixed. I think one of the biggest problems with this area has been our lack of caring about issues like this one... then we wait 5 years down the line and complain that there is no money for the orange line to be expanded, or new road connections, or a new east west highway which is badly needed. When you come out and attack me as being a particular political stance (one that I am actually not by the way) it discredits my ability to think for myself, and that is just as bad of an attack as calling someone else names.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 07:50PM by Tysons Engineer.

Ahh, the City-Data posters are slowly migrating here.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In fact, with that method, the gas tax on
> residents could be LOWERED and still provide the
> same transportation funding we currently attain,
> if we remove Richmond from the picture. We could
> lower the tax 11 cents per gallon. AGAIN another
> thing that Conservatives support (lower taxes).
>
> So again, please tell me what part of that is not
> conservative?
>
> Also,
>
> I do apologize for cursing and getting agitated to
> the point of losing my cool. Its been a rough day,
> but you should really avoid trying to paint people
> with broad brushes.
>
> I'm not a liberal shill, Im not a conservative
> shill. I am a person who has lived in Fairfax for
> three decades and loves this area even though
> there are plenty of things that need to be fixed.
> I think one of the biggest problems with this area
> has been our lack of caring about issues like this
> one... then we wait 5 years down the line and
> complain that there is no money for the orange
> line to be expanded, or new road connections, or a
> new east west highway which is badly needed. When
> you come out and attack me as being a particular
> political stance (one that I am actually not by
> the way) it discredits my ability to think for
> myself, and that is just as bad of an attack as
> calling someone else names.


Quit complaining and pay your 'fair share' homes.

There's a brother in Petersburg who needs it more than you do.

TE, you lost me at the name calling. If you really want to sell your ideas, perhaps follow Brian Schoeneman's lead here and respectfully debate your positions with supporting facts. Name calling scores zero points.

Cheers!

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Replace the 17 cent state wide gas tax, with a 17
> cent Fairfax gas tax. In return the state would no
> longer build roads for fairfax (something they
> aren't doing anyways) and therefore Fairfax would
> spend its own money for its own transportation.
>
> Now please, tell me, in what dictionary that is
> not conservative values.

Because they are full of shit. Decentralization, low taxes, lower spending are all part of the GOP platform, but in reality result in less importance for federal/state politicians. On the Hill, those guys call for spending cuts all day but when there is a hint it will affect the base in their state/district, suddenly those cuts aren't so important.

Removing Fairfax, Loudoun, and Arlington from the general transportation fund by letting them keep their own taxes would cripple Richmond's ability to build useless project in other parts of the Commonwealth. These guys may be "conservative", but they aren't dumb enough to give up a chance to deliver some pork and get re-elected.

This plan is another slap to Northern VA, particularly areas where people drive less because of Metro or "urban" development. So now, the guy in Vienna who lives near Metro and only drives 50 miles a month is going to contribute more to transportation because he makes $120k a year and buys more stuff than the hillbilly in Goochland County who drives all over in his pickup truck but only makes $30k a year and buys a proportionately less amount of stuff.

Either way, making it purely about overall spending, by tying it to the sales tax, means Northern VA continues to be the piggy bank. Probably even more so. Statistically most people drive 10-12k miles a year. I'm sure income affects that a little, but people need to drive to get to work and everywhere else. You make room in the budget for gas. Not everything else, that is where higher income people will be paying for most of this.

Except for the "Jane, you ignorant slut" name calling, this is one of the better threads here. Better be careful or this place will get a good reputation.

Priapus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except for the "Jane, you ignorant slut" name
> calling, this is one of the better threads here.
> Better be careful or this place will get a good
> reputation.


In my defense, I am Dan Akroid

.
Attachments:

The usual "everyone else is a redneck/whateverracistcommentTEmakes/FFaX would be sooooo coool as a state by itself" garbage.

Oh, and lots of "facts" that TE can't prove, either...

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The usual "everyone else is a
> redneck/whateverracistcommentTEmakes/FFaX would be
> sooooo coool as a state by itself" garbage.
>
> Oh, and lots of "facts" that TE can't prove,
> either...

Awww what's wrong? The Republican governor is an embarrassment and you can't defend the policies so you wanna attack me?

Jess1 (R) - That's all you are because you refuse to think for yourself.

NOVA would be better independent from the state because the state uses us as their purse pocket all the while demonizing us for being socialist whackjobs, of which we are not (clearly since the Governor is the one who is using our money to fund poor rural parts of the state).

Now Jess1, in my calmest least irritated and suffering a fool voice I can muster up, please tell me which facts i can't prove. Go ahead and list them and I will do all the hard work and prove them for you from actual budgetary and demographic sources with all of those sources cited so that even you can understand it.

Jess1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The usual "everyone else is a
> redneck/whateverracistcommentTEmakes/FFaX would be
> sooooo coool as a state by itself" garbage.
>
> Oh, and lots of "facts" that TE can't prove,
> either...

And don't call me a racist you insolent little brat, you can't find a single damn thing Ive ever said in my life that is racist. Go ahead find one time I called anyone a redneck or other derogatory term based in race.

You however are a jackass. I have no qualms in saying that to you because if it smells like one and looks like one then it likely is one.

Nah, it's just po'd that dad won't relinquish the computer...

Funny rants, though incoherent, and not up to GB's caliber.

Here's the point of the plan - the gas tax is dying. It's dying on the federal level, and it's dying on the state level. The point behind the proposal is to get rid of the gas tax because it's not a long term funding solution for transportation and to get a dedicated funding source that's tied to the economy, doesn't require politically unpopular tinkering, and will actually increase money going to infrastructure.

That's what the plan does. We get the lock box for transportation many of us have been calling for. We get more dedicated revenue for transportation. It's tied to the economy, so when the economy does well, the revenues increase. Right now, the gas tax is the same as it has been for twenty years, because it's politically impossible to increase.

As for fairness, that's a very, very tough problem. I campaigned on letting localities opt out of the state road system and manage their own secondary repairs, with block grants from the state similar to the LCI used for education. I still believe in that, and there's no reason why that couldn't be done down the road if it becomes politically feasible to do so.

The bottom line on taxes is simple: Northern Virginia is always going to be paying the price for being affluent and we're always going to be footing the bill for the folks downstate. Our property taxes are double many jurisdictions in Virginia. That's a problem we are probably never going to be able to solve.

As for spurning mass transit, the plan includes money for Dulles Rail. Besides, I have never understood why folks want so much money for transit when hardly any one uses it. Yes, we need to fund metro and VRE, but the reality is only about 4.5% of Virginians use mass transit. 91% drive. And mass transit sucks up money that could be better spent on new roads and maintenance on existing roads.

Nobody should expect that gas prices will go down under this plan, and that's not the point of it. The point is to get a dedicated revenue stream that isn't drying up for transportation.

This isn't a bad plan. In fact, it's one of the only really fresh ideas for overhauling our transportation funding any governor has had in quite a long time. It deserves more study.

Tell that to the 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the afternoon on the Orange Line where the trains and crammed like a tokyo transit car. The reason why only 4.5% of virginians use mass transit is because only around that % live within reasonable distance to reliable service. That is the strangest reasoning I have ever heard anyone use.

In Arlington Single Occupant vehicles constitute only 60% of trips, that a sizable amount of the population coming off of congested roads, not only saving on maintenance cost but on the need to expand costly roads.

The reason you don't understand transit is because you likely live in a transit desert, no where near any transit options that help you.

So the gas tax is running out of money so lets kill it. How about we act like grown ups who dont suck the balls of Exxon, and tie gas price to the current price instead of an arbitrary number set in 1992. Boom, problem solved. But I do agree that each county should be allowed to get out of any Richmond based idea. Fairfax spends too much money in other areas

I live ten minutes from the Vienna metro. I use it all the time. Arlington is not average - not in Northern Virginia and not in the rest of the Commonwealth either. You can't compare it with Fairfax, Loudoun, or any other part of Northern Virginia (except Alexandria).

Again, compared to roads, transit is underutilized. 4.5% of Virginians on transit vs. 91% in cars. I've been on the Metro during rush hour about a thousand times. Sure, it's crowded. So is 66, 495, 50, 29, 267, and every other road in the entire area. Worse.

Tying the gas tax to the current price doesn't solve the problem - the problem is people are buying less gas, period. Demand is down. Cars get better gas mileage, more people have hybrids and alternative energy vehicles, and CAFE standards are mandated to go up. Just raising the gas tax won't solve that problem, besides the fact that it's politically impossible. Democrats have been pushing to raise the gas tax for 20 years and they've never been successful at it.

It's time to do something different.

Just thought i'd give props to a GOP politician, for one of the few times ever. Took some balls to propose something semi-bold. Pissed of Grover, that's always good. I wouldn't vote for McDonnell for dog-catcher after all that transvaginal craziness but this proposal took a bit of courage.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live ten minutes from the Vienna metro. I use it
> all the time. Arlington is not average - not in
> Northern Virginia and not in the rest of the
> Commonwealth either. You can't compare it with
> Fairfax, Loudoun, or any other part of Northern
> Virginia (except Alexandria).
>
> Again, compared to roads, transit is
> underutilized. 4.5% of Virginians on transit vs.
> 91% in cars. I've been on the Metro during rush
> hour about a thousand times. Sure, it's crowded.
> So is 66, 495, 50, 29, 267, and every other road
> in the entire area. Worse.
>
> Tying the gas tax to the current price doesn't
> solve the problem - the problem is people are
> buying less gas, period. Demand is down. Cars get
> better gas mileage, more people have hybrids and
> alternative energy vehicles, and CAFE standards
> are mandated to go up. Just raising the gas tax
> won't solve that problem, besides the fact that
> it's politically impossible. Democrats have been
> pushing to raise the gas tax for 20 years and
> they've never been successful at it.
>
> It's time to do something different.

Ok... thats fine, but then why not just apply the same sales tax to gas also then? Remove gas tax, apply current sales tax to gas.

5% on $3.40 gas = 17 cents

But his proposal is a COMPLETE removal of all gas users liabilities. That is stupid. Thats just a concession to oil companies for more profits. On top of that, even though he's removing the gas tax he is still punishing people who use less gas, even though the people who use more gas no longer are punished.

$100 on alternative vehicles is the equivalent of 500 gallons of gas based on the 17 cent gas tax. 500 gallons is what the typical NOVA resident uses. So he's taking away this tax on people who drive normal vehicles, but essentially reattributing the now defunct tax onto people who dont drive normal vehicles.

Please tell me how that is bold?

And about being bold? He's not raising taxes, he's just shifting around who pays for taxes. 0.8% sales tax increase hurts NOVA residents alot more than Central Virginias (the ones who use the roads the most), and he removes any benefits from that increase by removing all together the gas tax.

He's an ass hat

We've never taxed gas that way, and setting up systems to do that would add additional costs to small business owners in order to comply. Removing the gas tax costs nothing, and adding additional sales tax to retailers who already collect it will cost nothing. That's probably why they didn't do it.

The gas tax shouldn't be used to try to curb behavior. People don't make their driving decisions based on how much tax is on their gas. They make those decisions based on how much gas overall costs. This isn't about punishing or rewarding behavior. People who buy fuel efficient cars buy less gas overall, and that is their reward. The gas tax repeal doesn't impact oil companies at all - they don't pay the gas tax. The retailers who sell the gas at the pumps, mostly small business franchisees, are the ones who pay the tax, because they're the ones who collect it.

I can understand your argument on the $100 for alternative fuel vehicles. That does make sense, since those folks would be captured under a sales tax system even if they weren't buying gasoline. I can only conclude that this provision is temporary and designed to recoup lost revenue to folks who bought electric cars and haven't had to pay fuel taxes at all. There aren't that many out there, because there aren't that many pure electric cars on the roads. I don't believe this provision includes hybrids. Just Smartcars, Volts and Leafs. I can't imagine this provision would add much in terms of revenue.

It's bold because of exactly what you said - he's adjusting the tax burden and creating a new dedicated funding stream for transportation to replace an old, dying one. If adopted, we'd be the only state in the Union without a gas tax at the state level. And, unlike the gas tax, a sales tax increase dedicated to transportation doesn't need to be indexed to inflation, and nobody has to vote on it every year to increase the funding. It goes up or down naturally based on the state of the economy. That's innovative, both politically and in policy terms. The overall plan does represent a tax increase - fees are going up, online purchases are going to begin to be taxed, and many folks who haven't paid gas taxes will now be directly paying for roads. It's a completely new approach to transportation funding.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jess1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The usual "everyone else is a
> > redneck/whateverracistcommentTEmakes/FFaX would
> be
> > sooooo coool as a state by itself" garbage.
> >
> > Oh, and lots of "facts" that TE can't prove,
> > either...
>
> And don't call me a racist you insolent little
> brat, you can't find a single damn thing Ive ever
> said in my life that is racist. Go ahead find one
> time I called anyone a redneck or other derogatory
> term based in race.
>
> You however are a jackass. I have no qualms in
> saying that to you because if it smells like one
> and looks like one then it likely is one.


I bet you have one tight and shiny hole. let me poke it. i want to put my object into it.

Replacing the tax on fuel with an increase in the sales tax shifts the burden of maintaining our roads from the drivers who use them (and the passengers and goods that traverse the roads) to all VA residents and deals a particulartly hard blow to NOVA, the wealthiest part of VA.

Bobby Mac Hate NOVA.

Every Virginia resident benefits from the roads. Every Virginia resident should pay for them. We already pay more under the gas tax because we have more residents than the rest of the state.

Bobby Mac is from NOVA, no reason for him to hate NOVA.

"...but the reality is only about 4.5% of Virginians use mass transit."

This is not kosher. Has about the same impact as me saying 99% of Virginians have no access to mass transit. To use this truthfully you should give the percentage of Virginians within Metro's sphere of access. Which would be a much higher percentage.

Either way imagine all the people in those crammed trains driving on your already clogged roads.

My solution. Toll at the beltway. Just a thought...

"Every Virginia resident benefits from the roads. Every Virginia resident should pay for them."

The problem with this is that now every Virginia resident will benefit yet a majority of it will be funded by NOVA. That's not fair.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every Virginia resident benefits from the roads.
> Every Virginia resident should pay for them. We
> already pay more under the gas tax because we have
> more residents than the rest of the state.
>
> Bobby Mac is from NOVA, no reason for him to hate
> NOVA.

Brian, this is the kind of horse shit that passes as an argument. The point is who benefits at what percentage. A person who uses roads only 5% of the time does not benefit as much from road spending as a person who uses it 95% of the time. What kind of crap argument is it to say that everyone pay the same amount for roads you jackass.

This might surprise you but some of us made good choices in life and dont have to depend on cars for every god damn activity. We already pay fares for our transit, as well as general funds from our real estate and our sales tax etc. The roads should be primarily funded by cars ass wipe. Bar none.

If you want to stop funding transit via gas tax, ok, then take that amount of gas tax and add whatever the difference in that is to the sales tax, but dont start giving us the pile of horse shit argument you are making.

Bobby mac is from NOVA, who the fuck cares if he is. Lots of people come from different parts and then go on to fuck em over for political gain. He is trying to be the first republican to remove a gas tax - next line of the story, he actually raised taxes to do it... but that wont matter, the first line is all that matters in his national aspirations.

Fuck bobby mac and his less than 5% of road spending in Fairfax, Arlington, and Loudoun. Fuck that noise.

Love NOVA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "...but the reality is only about 4.5% of
> Virginians use mass transit."
>
> This is not kosher. Has about the same impact as
> me saying 99% of Virginians have no access to mass
> transit. To use this truthfully you should give
> the percentage of Virginians within Metro's sphere
> of access. Which would be a much higher
> percentage.
>
> Either way imagine all the people in those crammed
> trains driving on your already clogged roads.
>
> My solution. Toll at the beltway. Just a
> thought...

According to the Department of Rail and Public Transportation, 80% of Virginians live in communities with transit services. The 4.5% number I got from an article written by Dr. Ron Utt of the Heritage Institute that I rebutted when he criticized the plan.

Transit is more than Metro. It's buses, rail and light rail, too.

Love NOVA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Every Virginia resident benefits from the roads.
> Every Virginia resident should pay for them."
>
> The problem with this is that now every Virginia
> resident will benefit yet a majority of it will be
> funded by NOVA. That's not fair.

This is a problem in a lot of areas. We pay more in income taxes than the rest of Virginia already does. We probably pay more in terms of the gas tax, too. We are only 33% of the residents of the Commonwealth, but we fund the rest of the state. That's not going to change, regardless of the plan.

This statement is the problem Wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------
> Brian, this is the kind of horse shit that passes
> as an argument. The point is who benefits at what
> percentage. A person who uses roads only 5% of the
> time does not benefit as much from road spending
> as a person who uses it 95% of the time. What kind
> of crap argument is it to say that everyone pay
> the same amount for roads you jackass.
>
> This might surprise you but some of us made good
> choices in life and dont have to depend on cars
> for every god damn activity. We already pay fares
> for our transit, as well as general funds from our
> real estate and our sales tax etc. The roads
> should be primarily funded by cars ass wipe. Bar
> none.
>
> If you want to stop funding transit via gas tax,
> ok, then take that amount of gas tax and add
> whatever the difference in that is to the sales
> tax, but dont start giving us the pile of horse
> shit argument you are making.
>
> Bobby mac is from NOVA, who the fuck cares if he
> is. Lots of people come from different parts and
> then go on to fuck em over for political gain. He
> is trying to be the first republican to remove a
> gas tax - next line of the story, he actually
> raised taxes to do it... but that wont matter, the
> first line is all that matters in his national
> aspirations.
>
> Fuck bobby mac and his less than 5% of road
> spending in Fairfax, Arlington, and Loudoun. Fuck
> that noise.

There is no way to determine how much somebody uses the roads, because everything you do is tied to transportation. Even a shut in who can't drive benefits from the roads. Folks who drive will pay more under the plan in the form of increased car registration fees. Those who don't but still benefit from mass transit or from commerce on roads will pay their fair share now. If you're 600 pounds and never leave the house, the pizza man has to drive to bring you your meatlover's pie. You still get the benefit of roads he had to pay for. And the cost of your meal doesn't cover it.

Your fares for transit don't come close to paying for what it costs to keep those systems running. If it did, we'd be paying $20 one-way from Vienna into the city. And yes, you're already paying some taxes, but so is everyone else. The gas tax only captures folks who drive, but everyone - and I mean absolutely everyone - benefits from the roads, and there's no reason why we all shouldn't pay for them. You're complaining about fairness when the guy who is paying the gas tax now is paying for a bunch of free riders who don't pay as much as he does in. And people are complaining about fairness?

I recognize the complaints about NOVA getting screwed. I'm not a fan of the fact that our revenue flows downstate when it comes to transportation money (hell, every kind of tax money), and I campaigned hard against that. Nobody cared.

The bottom line is the gas tax is dying, and we have massive liabilities in our transportation infrastructure we've got to fix. This is the first and only plan I've seen from anybody that can be called leadership on the issue. I give the Governor credit for it.

You know whats a better percentage you should learn Brian?

0.4%

Thats the percentage of people whose vehicles don't use traditional fuel or diesel in the state of Virginia you fuckin moron.

You say theres no accurate way to tell who uses the roads. Fuck you, there is its called how much gas you buy. The vehicles you are pretending are robbing the system are not even close to being a significant amount. Its far smaller than the percentage of people who use transit and should not have to pay for roads.

You argue everyone uses the roads for products? Well fuck face, this bill continues to hold on to all commercial vehicles tax/fuel costs. Those costs are incorporated into the product. This plan double taxes us for buying something.

Lastly, this is nothing but an attack on NOVA.

The average fairfax resident drives 35 miles per day. The average fairfax resident uses 1.8 gallons per day. That means the average Fairfax resident pays about 22 cents per day in gas tax. Over the course of the year that is $80

The average resident of Orange County drives 45 miles per day. The average resident uses 2.0 gallons per day. That means they pay about 34 cents per day in gas tax. Over hte course of the year that is $124

The average Fairfax resident might spend 15,000 per year on sales tax eligible items (easily). The new tax is 0.8% higher. That is $120. The average orange county resident will spend half of what a Fairfax resident will ($60)

This plan is punishing Fairfax for doing well in life, while giving rural virginia a break on their unsustainable love of gasoline. Derrrr big trucks derrrrrr

I can't stand McDonnel and his good ole' republicans buddies in the state legislator.

They haven't shit but increased taxes and tolls!

vehicle mileage tax and tax on gross weight.

Hey fuck face Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know whats a better percentage you should
> learn Brian?
>
> 0.4%
> Thats the percentage of people whose vehicles
> don't use traditional fuel or diesel in the state
> of Virginia you fuckin moron.

wow................less that half a percent. Nice shootin', Tex. Yep, whole debate should revolve around that .4%. Thanks from pointing that out o_0


@Brian - I'm not sold, m'man. Just uncomfortable with a change like that. I guess I like having a low sales tax............................ But I'll still listen - maybe y'all will change my mind, I dunno.

Hey fuck face Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know whats a better percentage you should
> learn Brian?
>
> 0.4%
>
> Thats the percentage of people whose vehicles
> don't use traditional fuel or diesel in the state
> of Virginia you fuckin moron.

So...what's your point? This isn't about making sure folks like me who drive hybrids or folks who drive Chevy Volts are paying their fair share. It's not even about the fair share at all. It's about the fact that the gas tax is dying, it's not a viable long-term revenue source, and we need to replace it.

> You say theres no accurate way to tell who uses
> the roads. Fuck you, there is its called how much
> gas you buy. The vehicles you are pretending are
> robbing the system are not even close to being a
> significant amount. Its far smaller than the
> percentage of people who use transit and should
> not have to pay for roads.

That's nonsense. You ride the bus every day, you're using roads. You take metro every day, the guy driving your train either took the bus or drove to get there. He used the roads. The guy who rides a bike uses the roads. The shut in who gets his meals-on-wheels meal every day gets fed by a guy who uses the roads. The service workers fixing your heat, your electricity, your cable, your phone, they all use roads.

Everyone uses roads and everyone who engages in any kind of commerce benefits from those roads.

> You argue everyone uses the roads for products?
> Well fuck face, this bill continues to hold on to
> all commercial vehicles tax/fuel costs. Those
> costs are incorporated into the product. This plan
> double taxes us for buying something.

There's already double taxation - the guy who buys gas is getting double taxed right now. Your biggest complaint seems to be that you've found a way to get around without a car and now you're going to have to pay for the roads. Sorry. Time to pay the piper.

Commercial vehicles that use gasoline won't be subject to the gas tax. Trucks that use diesel will still pay the fuel tax on diesel, but that's because the big trucks that run on diesel are responsible for something like 70% of the wear and tear on roads - the amount they pay in fuel taxes and that we receive from the federal apportionment system for them doesn't begin to cover the damage they do. So they don't get a pass. That's fair.

> Lastly, this is nothing but an attack on NOVA.
>
> The average fairfax resident drives 35 miles per
> day. The average fairfax resident uses 1.8 gallons
> per day. That means the average Fairfax resident
> pays about 22 cents per day in gas tax. Over the
> course of the year that is $80
>
> The average resident of Orange County drives 45
> miles per day. The average resident uses 2.0
> gallons per day. That means they pay about 34
> cents per day in gas tax. Over hte course of the
> year that is $124
>
> The average Fairfax resident might spend 15,000
> per year on sales tax eligible items (easily). The
> new tax is 0.8% higher. That is $120. The average
> orange county resident will spend half of what a
> Fairfax resident will ($60)
>
> This plan is punishing Fairfax for doing well in
> life, while giving rural virginia a break on their
> unsustainable love of gasoline. Derrrr big trucks
> derrrrrr

No plan is going to be fair to Fairfax or Northern Virginia. The tax system as it currently exists isn't fair, and we don't represent enough of the state to change it without help from folks in the rest of Virginia, who have their own axes to grind. The current system isn't fair either.

That's a different problem to solve. The immediate problem is how we get needed money for transportation, how we do it long-term in a sustainable and politically feasible way. The gas tax doesn't work anymore. This is the only solution I've seen that is remotely plausible.

Gordon, our sales tax will still be lower than DC (6%), Maryland (6%), West Virginia (6%), Tennessee (7%) and most of North Carolina (4.5% state, but each county adds its own, the average is around 7%).

The debate isn't about capturing alternative fuel drivers. It's about paying for transportation long term. The gas tax is dying a slow death and we need to find a way to replace it now.

The only other alternative that's being talked about is a mileage tax - you want the Feds to have a meter in your car to see how much you've driven and then make you pay a fee every year on your taxes, so be it. I'm not interested in that. This is a better, less invasive, actually implementable proposal.

No one uses it? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell that to the 3 hours in the morning and 3
> hours in the afternoon on the Orange Line where
> the trains and crammed like a Tokyo transit car.

Imagine a future where Metro runs like "It's a Small World" at Disney.

Tysons Engineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Republican idiot, you dont even realize your party is becoming socialist.

> The Great Job Creator Bob McDonnell would have you believe that this new form of tax will be more equitable for payment of future transit projects.

> You mean Bob Mcbummer? Redistributing the wealth of NOVA to Goochland, Wise County and Richmond?

> Anything else jackass? Or are you just a worthless (R) shill who doesnt even realize the republican party has splintered and been taken over by jackals?

>Awww what's wrong? The Republican governor is an embarrassment and you can't defend the policies so you wanna attack me?

> Also, you have no idea what political leaning I have.


Yes, I do have an idea what political leaning you have.

What I don't know is why you can't string together a few sentences on your website or here without correcting the spelling, grammar, or punctuation.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just raising the gas tax
> won't solve that problem, besides the fact that
> it's politically impossible. Democrats have been
> pushing to raise the gas tax for 20 years and
> they've never been successful at it.
>
> It's time to do something different.

No, it's time to actually man up and do whatever it takes to raise the gas tax. It's still best (=the least inaccurate, if you like) way to correlate usage. The raise will increase the revenue AND will keep incentive for more efficiency in all its forms.

Disclaimer: my commute is 100+ miles/day, so such increase will affect me directly, and I'm willing to accept it.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just raising the gas tax
> > won't solve that problem, besides the fact that
> > it's politically impossible. Democrats have
> been
> > pushing to raise the gas tax for 20 years and
> > they've never been successful at it.
> >
> > It's time to do something different.
>
> No, it's time to actually man up and do whatever
> it takes to raise the gas tax. It's still best
> (=the least inaccurate, if you like) way to
> correlate usage. The raise will increase the
> revenue AND will keep incentive for more
> efficiency in all its forms.
>
> Disclaimer: my commute is 100+ miles/day, so such
> increase will affect me directly, and I'm willing
> to accept it.

Raising the gas tax is not a long term solution, and it's simply not going to happen while Republicans control the House of Delegates. It hasn't been raised in 20 years, and it's won't be raised any time soon.

This plan is the best chance to get a new revenue stream for transportation and it has the benefit of never needing to be voted on again.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taxpayer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Just raising the gas tax
> > > won't solve that problem, besides the fact
> that
> > > it's politically impossible. Democrats have
> > been
> > > pushing to raise the gas tax for 20 years and
> > > they've never been successful at it.
> > >
> > > It's time to do something different.
> >
> > No, it's time to actually man up and do
> whatever
> > it takes to raise the gas tax. It's still best
> > (=the least inaccurate, if you like) way to
> > correlate usage. The raise will increase the
> > revenue AND will keep incentive for more
> > efficiency in all its forms.
> >
> > Disclaimer: my commute is 100+ miles/day, so
> such
> > increase will affect me directly, and I'm
> willing
> > to accept it.
>
> Raising the gas tax is not a long term solution,
> and it's simply not going to happen while
> Republicans control the House of Delegates. It
> hasn't been raised in 20 years, and it's won't be
> raised any time soon.
>
> This plan is the best chance to get a new revenue
> stream for transportation and it has the benefit
> of never needing to be voted on again.

Great, I'm tired of Virginia being a national laughing stock for political bills to garner our governor acknowledgment from tea baggers anyways.

Transvaginal Ultra sound, making abortion clinics illegal via zoning regulation not for actual operation or practices, and now this idiotic gas tax plan.

Solution? Vote out as many republican legislature members and the next governor and put in people who arent pandering to idiot masses.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This plan is the best chance to get a new revenue
> stream for transportation and it has the benefit
> of never needing to be voted on again.

Why is it better if you make more dependent on the state of economy? It's not like roads will deteriorate less and will require much less maintenance if economy slows down and consequently reduce your tax revenue. People don't drive less, and nature doesn't stop. So what will happen is just like with property taxes you'll have to raise the sales tax to compensate it, driving consumers elsewhere - and remember, more and more Internet sales will be taxed in future based on locality.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This plan is the best chance to get a new
> revenue
> > stream for transportation and it has the
> benefit
> > of never needing to be voted on again.
>
> Why is it better if you make more dependent on the
> state of economy? It's not like roads will
> deteriorate less and will require much less
> maintenance if economy slows down and consequently
> reduce your tax revenue. People don't drive less,
> and nature doesn't stop. So what will happen is
> just like with property taxes you'll have to raise
> the sales tax to compensate it, driving consumers
> elsewhere - and remember, more and more Internet
> sales will be taxed in future based on locality.

What it means is that in good times and as the economy naturally expands, which it typically does even in bad times, the amount of taxes generated will go up automatically, as people buy more stuff. It's not a per gallon set fee that is gradually eaten away as demand falls or as inflation reduces the buying power of the dollar.

We haven't raised the sales tax in Virginia since 2004, and before that it was 1986. We haven't raised the gas tax since 1986, either. Raising taxes in Virginia is a big deal and happen rarely on taxes as sweeping as either of those. Doing this now means the likelihood we have to raise taxes again is relatively small.

Our sales taxes are still lower than all our surrounding neighbors, so there's no reason to think this is going to drive off consumers (most of whom don't shop based on sales taxes, anyway).

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taxpayer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This plan is the best chance to get a new
> > revenue
> > > stream for transportation and it has the
> > benefit
> > > of never needing to be voted on again.
> >
> > Why is it better if you make more dependent on
> the
> > state of economy? It's not like roads will
> > deteriorate less and will require much less
> > maintenance if economy slows down and
> consequently
> > reduce your tax revenue. People don't drive
> less,
> > and nature doesn't stop. So what will happen is
> > just like with property taxes you'll have to
> raise
> > the sales tax to compensate it, driving
> consumers
> > elsewhere - and remember, more and more
> Internet
> > sales will be taxed in future based on
> locality.
>
> What it means is that in good times and as the
> economy naturally expands, which it typically does
> even in bad times, the amount of taxes generated
> will go up automatically, as people buy more
> stuff. It's not a per gallon set fee that is
> gradually eaten away as demand falls or as
> inflation reduces the buying power of the dollar.
>
>
> We haven't raised the sales tax in Virginia since
> 2004, and before that it was 1986. We haven't
> raised the gas tax since 1986, either. Raising
> taxes in Virginia is a big deal and happen rarely
> on taxes as sweeping as either of those. Doing
> this now means the likelihood we have to raise
> taxes again is relatively small.
>
> Our sales taxes are still lower than all our
> surrounding neighbors, so there's no reason to
> think this is going to drive off consumers (most
> of whom don't shop based on sales taxes, anyway).


No deal unless each county holds on to its own sales tax. We already see all of our sales tax fucking spent on all the rural parts that cant raise a damn dollar if they had to. We are not the bank roll. Thats fine if you wanna switch to sales tax. Btw you could just set the gas tax at 5.0% and do the same thing you still havent answered that. We are not increasing taxes on Fairfax just so 460 cant wider than it needs to be. Fairfax sales tax increase should go towards Fairfax transportation. This governor is an asshole who will not spend equitably, instead we get massive tolls and the rest of the state gets free shit. Socialism for all (R) as long as the socialists vote republican right?

Danville can suck it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > taxpayer Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > This plan is the best chance to get a new
> > > revenue
> > > > stream for transportation and it has the
> > > benefit
> > > > of never needing to be voted on again.
> > >
> > > Why is it better if you make more dependent
> on
> > the
> > > state of economy? It's not like roads will
> > > deteriorate less and will require much less
> > > maintenance if economy slows down and
> > consequently
> > > reduce your tax revenue. People don't drive
> > less,
> > > and nature doesn't stop. So what will happen
> is
> > > just like with property taxes you'll have to
> > raise
> > > the sales tax to compensate it, driving
> > consumers
> > > elsewhere - and remember, more and more
> > Internet
> > > sales will be taxed in future based on
> > locality.
> >
> > What it means is that in good times and as the
> > economy naturally expands, which it typically
> does
> > even in bad times, the amount of taxes
> generated
> > will go up automatically, as people buy more
> > stuff. It's not a per gallon set fee that is
> > gradually eaten away as demand falls or as
> > inflation reduces the buying power of the
> dollar.
> >
> >
> > We haven't raised the sales tax in Virginia
> since
> > 2004, and before that it was 1986. We haven't
> > raised the gas tax since 1986, either. Raising
> > taxes in Virginia is a big deal and happen
> rarely
> > on taxes as sweeping as either of those. Doing
> > this now means the likelihood we have to raise
> > taxes again is relatively small.
> >
> > Our sales taxes are still lower than all our
> > surrounding neighbors, so there's no reason to
> > think this is going to drive off consumers
> (most
> > of whom don't shop based on sales taxes,
> anyway).
>
>
> No deal unless each county holds on to its own
> sales tax. We already see all of our sales tax
> fucking spent on all the rural parts that cant
> raise a damn dollar if they had to. We are not the
> bank roll. Thats fine if you wanna switch to sales
> tax. Btw you could just set the gas tax at 5.0%
> and do the same thing you still havent answered
> that. We are not increasing taxes on Fairfax just
> so 460 cant wider than it needs to be. Fairfax
> sales tax increase should go towards Fairfax
> transportation. This governor is an asshole who
> will not spend equitably, instead we get massive
> tolls and the rest of the state gets free shit.
> Socialism for all (R) as long as the socialists
> vote republican right?

First of all, I'm 100% in favor of localities keeping more of the sales tax than they already get. We currently get 1% of the 5% sales tax. I proposed when I ran that Northern Virginia get to keep an extra .25% of the sales tax generated in Northern Virginia earmarked for local transportation needs.

I did answer why it would not be cost effective to just charge 5% sales tax on gas - the systems aren't set up to tax that way. It would require every gas vendor to upgrade their pumps to do that. Burdening small businesses isn't the way to go when we make this transition. And as demand for gas continues to diminish, you have the same problem you already have with the gas tax now.

The Governor can't force the legislature to devolve all taxes back on the localities. The Governor doesn't write the budget himself. Yes, we are a donor region - we always have been, and we probably always will be.

But hey - maybe if we elected a few more Republicans up here, we'd have a critical mass large enough to roll the downstate folks. I made that argument when I ran, too.

The gas tax should be increased instead of being abolished.We have enough roads now and they are not well maintained.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did answer why it would not be cost effective to
> just charge 5% sales tax on gas - the systems
> aren't set up to tax that way. It would require
> every gas vendor to upgrade their pumps to do
> that. Burdening small businesses isn't the way to
> go when we make this transition.

Please, don't offend mine and others' intelligence with such arguments; when needed, you'd care less about tech. difficulties (nonexistent in this case, btw), small budinesses, etc. etc. Listen, I vote R, but rhetoric like yours is what pushes voters elsewhere. Also, while sales taxes in the neighboring states are higher, they have many more exemptions, and very likely on average a houshold pays the same, if not less, than in VA.

Taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I did answer why it would not be cost effective
> to
> > just charge 5% sales tax on gas - the systems
> > aren't set up to tax that way. It would require
> > every gas vendor to upgrade their pumps to do
> > that. Burdening small businesses isn't the way
> to
> > go when we make this transition.
>
> Please, don't offend mine and others' intelligence
> with such arguments; when needed, you'd care less
> about tech. difficulties (nonexistent in this
> case, btw), small budinesses, etc. etc. Listen, I
> vote R, but rhetoric like yours is what pushes
> voters elsewhere. Also, while sales taxes in the
> neighboring states are higher, they have many more
> exemptions, and very likely on average a houshold
> pays the same, if not less, than in VA.

That's ridiculous. Small businesses matter, and I wouldn't have made the argument if I didn't think it was valid.

What rhetoric is pushing anyone elsewhere? I'm trying to explain why this move is necessary, why it's a long-term replacement for the gas tax and why it's better than other options. I spent most of my campaign talking about transportation and how we need to fix it. The Governor's plan is the first really new idea anyone has had that doesn't involve a Big Brother style mileage tax out there.

There is no way that jurisdictions like Maryland and DC have lower taxes on anything than we do. I already quoted all of the percentages earlier here. The only state where our base sales tax is higher is North Carolina, but they allow localities to establish their own sales taxes, so their average tax is higher than ours. The point of going to 5.8% and not something higher is specifically to keep our tax burden lower than our competitors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2013 11:05PM by BrianSchoeneman.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxpayer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I did answer why it would not be cost
> effective
> > to
> > > just charge 5% sales tax on gas - the systems
> > > aren't set up to tax that way. It would
> require
> > > every gas vendor to upgrade their pumps to do
> > > that. Burdening small businesses isn't the
> way
> > to
> > > go when we make this transition.
> >
> > Please, don't offend mine and others'
> intelligence
> > with such arguments; when needed, you'd care
> less
> > about tech. difficulties (nonexistent in this
> > case, btw), small budinesses, etc. etc. Listen,
> I
> > vote R, but rhetoric like yours is what pushes
> > voters elsewhere. Also, while sales taxes in
> the
> > neighboring states are higher, they have many
> more
> > exemptions, and very likely on average a
> houshold
> > pays the same, if not less, than in VA.
>
> That's ridiculous. Small businesses matter, and I
> wouldn't have made the argument if I didn't think
> it was valid.
>
> What rhetoric is pushing anyone elsewhere? I'm
> trying to explain why this move is necessary, why
> it's a long-term replacement for the gas tax and
> why it's better than other options. I spent most
> of my campaign talking about transportation and
> how we need to fix it. The Governor's plan is the
> first really new idea anyone has had that doesn't
> involve a Big Brother style mileage tax out there.
>
>
> There is no way that jurisdictions like Maryland
> and DC have lower taxes on anything than we do. I
> already quoted all of the percentages earlier
> here. The only state where our base sales tax is
> higher is North Carolina, but they allow
> localities to establish their own sales taxes, so
> their average tax is higher than ours. The point
> of going to 5.8% and not something higher is
> specifically to keep our tax burden lower than our
> competitors.


Thanks Brian. I am now voting Democratic.

A new Quinnipiac survey holds some good news for Virginia Republican Gov. Bob McDonnell. He has a 53-26 percent job approval rating, one of the highest in any of the seven states polled.

According to Quinnipiac University, women approve of McDonnell 48-26 percent, while men approve 59-27 percent. White voters approve 58-25 percent, while black voters approve 41-32 percent. And young voters, ages 18 to 34, approve 48-44 percent.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That's ridiculous. Small businesses matter, and I
> wouldn't have made the argument if I didn't think
> it was valid.

honesty, folks - he's a republican. you really think he's anti business of any kind? :)


> What rhetoric is pushing anyone elsewhere? I'm
> trying to explain why this move is necessary, why
> it's a long-term replacement for the gas tax and
> why it's better than other options. I spent most
> of my campaign talking about transportation and
> how we need to fix it. The Governor's plan is the
> first really new idea anyone has had that doesn't
> involve a Big Brother style mileage tax out there.

it's different, I'll give you that LoLz. And yeah, it's funny to see ppl blame you for the reasons you are giving - like you personally are gonna profit from this or something LoLz

> There is no way that jurisdictions like Maryland
> and DC have lower taxes on anything than we do. I
> already quoted all of the percentages earlier
> here. The only state where our base sales tax is
> higher is North Carolina, but they allow
> localities to establish their own sales taxes, so
> their average tax is higher than ours. The point
> of going to 5.8% and not something higher is
> specifically to keep our tax burden lower than our
> competitors.

ROFLMAO@anyone who thinks The People's Republic of Maryland (ha ha just kiddin ya, you jousters you) or DC has less taxes - when it comes to 95, the taxes go up the more you go up LoLz

still not sold though, Brian. To me, it seems like the tax burden is being shifted from business and more onto the little ppl in the long run and that's just not my thing.

@taxpayer - Brian's not lying. He doesnt control how gas pumps are programmed or how the industry as a whole is run but it's cute to watch you think he does LoLz. Anywho, yeah, gas is not "sales taxed" by percentage but by a set amount. ALL states and the Fed do it this way. Why, I dont know. But I do know it would cost a HELL OF A LOT to change the computer programming on all those prcing systems. Seriously, it would be like paying to reprogram your cable box to show the time in analog instead of digital. Not cost effective, yo.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > That's ridiculous. Small businesses matter, and
> I
> > wouldn't have made the argument if I didn't
> think
> > it was valid.
>
> honesty, folks - he's a republican. you really
> think he's anti business of any kind? :)
>
>
> > What rhetoric is pushing anyone elsewhere? I'm
> > trying to explain why this move is necessary,
> why
> > it's a long-term replacement for the gas tax
> and
> > why it's better than other options. I spent
> most
> > of my campaign talking about transportation and
> > how we need to fix it. The Governor's plan is
> the
> > first really new idea anyone has had that
> doesn't
> > involve a Big Brother style mileage tax out
> there.
>
> it's different, I'll give you that LoLz. And
> yeah, it's funny to see ppl blame you for the
> reasons you are giving - like you personally are
> gonna profit from this or something LoLz
>
> > There is no way that jurisdictions like
> Maryland
> > and DC have lower taxes on anything than we do.
> I
> > already quoted all of the percentages earlier
> > here. The only state where our base sales tax
> is
> > higher is North Carolina, but they allow
> > localities to establish their own sales taxes,
> so
> > their average tax is higher than ours. The
> point
> > of going to 5.8% and not something higher is
> > specifically to keep our tax burden lower than
> our
> > competitors.
>
> ROFLMAO@anyone who thinks The People's Republic of
> Maryland (ha ha just kiddin ya, you jousters you)
> or DC has less taxes - when it comes to 95, the
> taxes go up the more you go up LoLz
>
> still not sold though, Brian. To me, it seems
> like the tax burden is being shifted from business
> and more onto the little ppl in the long run and
> that's just not my thing.
>
> @taxpayer - Brian's not lying. He doesnt control
> how gas pumps are programmed or how the industry
> as a whole is run but it's cute to watch you think
> he does LoLz. Anywho, yeah, gas is not "sales
> taxed" by percentage but by a set amount. ALL
> states and the Fed do it this way. Why, I dont
> know. But I do know it would cost a HELL OF A LOT
> to change the computer programming on all those
> prcing systems. Seriously, it would be like
> paying to reprogram your cable box to show the
> time in analog instead of digital. Not cost
> effective, yo.




And let God sortit out.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no way that jurisdictions like Maryland
> and DC have lower taxes on anything than we do. I
> already quoted all of the percentages earlier
> here. The only state where our base sales tax is
> higher is North Carolina, but they allow
> localities to establish their own sales taxes, so
> their average tax is higher than ours. The point
> of going to 5.8% and not something higher is
> specifically to keep our tax burden lower than our
> competitors.

This rhetoric. While MD has higher sales tax rate, many items are exempt (food, medicine, etc.) and these items constitute significant percentage of a household expenses. VA has some exemptions too, but when we look at the aggregated spending and amount of sales tax paid, the effective rates are comparable if not in favor MD. Just like with vehicles, where you initial expense - sales tax - is lower in VA, but over a period of ownership VA taxes it back via property taxes.

Bottom line, you can't take certain numbers out of context, add 'we care about small business' with some BS about cost of replacing pumps to accommodate changes in gas tax, and expect not to be called out.

The movement from one tax to another is just a shell game. One way or another they are going to get us to pay more taxes---because the need for roads/maintenance does not get lower. Wouldn't it make more sense just to accept that this is happening, raise the gas tax and maybe add the $100 to the hybrid vehicles? Putting a tax on all sales and then promising to use it for roads sounds fraught with peril.

But then Chairman McDonnell wouldnt be able to go back to his big RNC meetings of governors and national leaders and say he was the first state to remove the gas tax ,though only a technicality

Everything this fake non-business friendly ass hat has done is wrought with political ambition not what is best for the state. He is forcing businesses to pay more and more towards transportation which has traditionally been the role of government so that he can pretend he has a surplus last year by playing a shell game with general funds.

Get it?

Hes a fraud and he has been riding the coat tails of our regions economic dominance for the past 20 years, our educated work force, and YES the fact that the federal government is in a major way incorporated into NOVA. I have seen nothing from him that has brought a single damn job or beneficial economic condition to Virginia

DearLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But then Chairman McDonnell wouldnt be able to go
> back to his big RNC meetings of governors and
> national leaders and say he was the first state to
> remove the gas tax ,though only a technicality
>
> Everything this fake non-business friendly ass hat
> has done is wrought with political ambition not
> what is best for the state. He is forcing
> businesses to pay more and more towards
> transportation which has traditionally been the
> role of government so that he can pretend he has a
> surplus last year by playing a shell game with
> general funds.
>
> Get it?
>
> Hes a fraud and he has been riding the coat tails
> of our regions economic dominance for the past 20
> years, our educated work force, and YES the fact
> that the federal government is in a major way
> incorporated into NOVA. I have seen nothing from
> him that has brought a single damn job or
> beneficial economic condition to Virginia

But no, the economic success of Virginia is due to Bob McDonnell and the GOP's policies! No way it has anything to do with the Federal Government being located across the Potomac.

And the GOP is against redistributing wealth, but Arlington, Fairfax, and Loudoun counties get something like $0.19 back on the dollar in taxes. $0.81 of every Northern VA dollar "redistributed" elsewhere.

We should secede from Virginia and form our own state. We can take Charlottesville with us.