Not sure if I agree with school personnel carrying guns, but if they decide to go that way, many schools already have retired Police Officers on their security teams. Those folks are already qualified and legal to carry concealed weapons on school grounds. In addition, most keep their concealed weapons permit up to date to carry under the Federal law which allows them to carry nationwide. The Federal permit requires periodic qualification. So, if the school systems in Va decide to arm school personnel, that could be done on a limited basis at zero cost and training due to the fact that some are already trained, quailified, and legal. Not saying I agree with this, just saying it is a legal option.

Obviously the only reasonable solution is to arm the children. But all the gun-control knuckleheads think that's too dangerous for some reason.

Really...I thought only active law enforcement could carry a gun on school grounds and only as part of their duties. I have never heard of retired police officers being exempt from the "no guns on school property laws". Can you cite the code section for this?

GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really...I thought only active law enforcement
> could carry a gun on school grounds and only as
> part of their duties. I have never heard of
> retired police officers being exempt from the "no
> guns on school property laws". Can you cite the
> code section for this?

I'm not the OP, so I may be wrong in interpreting what the OP said.

I don't think the OP was saying this is already going on, but that some school security are former law enforcement and therefore already have the qualifications to carry a weapon. So it would be cheap and easy if or when school systems choose to allow weapons on school grounds.

If he is claiming that they already do, I sure hope he's wrong.

um, school resource officers are currently armed - AS THEY ARE POLICE OFFICERS OF THE FCPD

you guys do know that, right?

http://www.fcps.edu/emergencyplan/measures.shtml

My bad.......

"Not the OP" is exactly right.

The Federal Law (HR 218) trumps any existing state law with a few exceptions.. One of those exceptions is that states can prohibit the carrying of guns on school grounds.

All I was trying to say was....if the schools in Va decided to arm someone in the schools, it would make sense to go with the retired cops there since they are qualified already. Most carry a concealed weapon under the Federal Law Enforcement Safety act (HR218). That act requires periodic training and fire arm qualification, so they would be the easiest to make the transition.

Sorry for the confusion.

Gordon Blvd....

Yes.....I know School Resource officers are armed, I used to be one, but not every school in Fairfax County has a SRO. This post refers to those schools without SRO's or those schools that would want to add to their security by arming additional personnel.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> um, school resource officers are currently armed -
> AS THEY ARE POLICE OFFICERS OF THE FCPD
>
> you guys do know that, right?
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/emergencyplan/measures.shtml


Um yeah...notice I said "active police officers" which would be a SRO.

However...do you have any idea how often a SRO is not in the school during the day? They have court and etc they also must go to.

And have you ever seen some of the SROs in the northern VA schools? Some are good officers I am sure but a lot of them are there to hide.

None* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure if I agree with school personnel carrying
> guns, but if they decide to go that way, many
> schools already have retired Police Officers on
> their security teams. Those folks are already
> qualified and legal to carry concealed weapons on
> school grounds. In addition, most keep their
> concealed weapons permit up to date to carry under
> the Federal law which allows them to carry
> nationwide. The Federal permit requires periodic
> qualification. So, if the school systems in Va
> decide to arm school personnel, that could be done
> on a limited basis at zero cost and training due
> to the fact that some are already trained,
> quailified, and legal. Not saying I agree with
> this, just saying it is a legal option.


There's no such thing as a Federal concealed-carry permit.

Thanks for the bullshit.

The prohibition on carrying firearms within 1000 feet of a school contained within the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act (which authorizes on-duty law enforcement officers to carry firearms in such circumstances) still applies to off-duty and retired law enforcement officers who would otherwise be allowed to carry firearms under LEOSA. So, "NO" to your original point, and....

THERE IS NO FUCKING PERMIT!!!!!!!

@GFR - The SRO's I've meet seem to be cops trained to work specifically with schools and children and the like. Kinda like a cop with "special training" or something like that. Not too sure why yr trying to clown on them. What would any of them have to "hide"? Not any more than any other cop LoLz
@none* - yr post is the first to mention schools with/without SRO's. And I should point out that ALL schools in FCPS are assigned SROS, just not all schools have one PERMANENTLY BASED at their location 24/7.

edit - anyways, I think each school jurisdiction should decide EXACTLY how much security each school needs. If some pissant little town in Texas is cool with arming teachers, no biggie to me. However, our jurisdiction and ones similar in nature to it in terms of size and quality I think would be better served by a professional level policing force, the numbers of which I have no idea would best serve the community. Is it necessary of EVERY FCPS school to have an officer 24/7? I really dont know. Would I like for that to be the case? CERTAINLY! But I dont know if that is a physical and financial reality without Federal Assistance, that's for sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2012 10:02PM by Gordon Blvd.

Amazingly, I work at a place that has an armed guard, and every day that I walk in the door, I'm not freaked out. I

s something wrong with me???

LWMvk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amazingly, I work at a place that has an armed
> guard, and every day that I walk in the door, I'm
> not freaked out. I
>
> s something wrong with me???

But how safe are you is the question. The armed guard at Columbine didn't prevent the killings and either did all the VA Tech Police on campus, not to mention an entire army at Ft Hood, all of whom were allowed to bring unregistered weapons on base (before the shooting). Maybe the answer isn't more guns, but fewer.

Wingtips.....always....wingtips....please.....always wingtips.....please

read the concealed carry laws. a permit holder can bring a gun on school grounds, but only in the parking lot, and must stay inside their vehicle. once the exit their vehicle, its a violation of the law.this is so they can pick up or drop off their kids without having to leave their firearm at home. only police officer's, current or retired can carry on school grounds. retired police officers are treated just like current police officer's. they carry creditials that are issued by the department they retired from, and that gives them the authority to carry anywhere. most departments around the nova area, still require retired officer's to qualify every year in order to carry using their retired police officer credentials. a trained security is not allowed to carry on school grounds either, even if in uniform and open carry. only police officer's.

Gunny Sergeant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LWMvk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Amazingly, I work at a place that has an armed
> > guard, and every day that I walk in the door,
> I'm
> > not freaked out. I
> >
> > s something wrong with me???
>
> But how safe are you is the question. The armed
> guard at Columbine didn't prevent the killings and
> either did all the VA Tech Police on campus, not
> to mention an entire army at Ft Hood, all of whom
> were allowed to bring unregistered weapons on base
> (before the shooting). Maybe the answer isn't
> more guns, but fewer.

There were and are very strict restrictions on who could carry a weapon on base, which is why none of the victims or anyone around them was armed. Thank and fuck you for trying to spread misinformation.

5-0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> read the concealed carry laws. a permit holder can
> bring a gun on school grounds, but only in the
> parking lot, and must stay inside their vehicle.
> once the exit their vehicle, its a violation of
> the law.this is so they can pick up or drop off
> their kids without having to leave their firearm
> at home. only police officer's, current or retired
> can carry on school grounds. retired police
> officers are treated just like current police
> officer's. they carry creditials that are issued
> by the department they retired from, and that
> gives them the authority to carry anywhere. most
> departments around the nova area, still require
> retired officer's to qualify every year in order
> to carry using their retired police officer
> credentials. a trained security is not allowed to
> carry on school grounds either, even if in uniform
> and open carry. only police officer's.


Sorry, retired police officers who do not work at the school in a security
capacity CANNOT by law carry firearms on school grounds. That's federal law, which trumps whatever loosey-goosey arrangement the state may have in place.

Whattttt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> There's no such thing as a Federal concealed-carry
> permit.
>
> Thanks for the bullshit.


Yes there is for LEOs only. Its not something the general public can get

Gunny Sergeant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LWMvk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Amazingly, I work at a place that has an armed
> > guard, and every day that I walk in the door,
> I'm
> > not freaked out. I
> >
> > s something wrong with me???
>
> But how safe are you is the question. The armed
> guard at Columbine didn't prevent the killings and
> either did all the VA Tech Police on campus, not
> to mention an entire army at Ft Hood, all of whom
> were allowed to bring unregistered weapons on base
> (before the shooting). Maybe the answer isn't
> more guns, but fewer.

The soldiers at Ft Hood werent armed. No the guard at Columbine didnt happen to help but there was another shooting after that stopped by and Assistant Principle who got his gun out of his car. For Tech campus police are no different than normal police. They arent in the buildings and had to respond to the calls just like the normal police do.

Armed guards wont stop every shooting. But if a shooting is going to happen I would much rather have someone armed there who could potentially stop it than having nothing that can stop it hoping to still be alive 20-30 minutes later when the police finally get there to do something

Some states allow people to carry on school grounds. Utah for example. Never had any shootings in thir schools and the most recent attempt there ended with an armed citizen wetaking them down quickly. And despite the laws thousands of people like me and my wife carry everywhere we go. Including ours kids classrooms when w are parent chaperones. I realize some of you have a party line dictating your commen sense for you, but if a gunman entered your Childs classroom, can you really daddy you would have your child cowing under a desk waiting to die than a trained armed teacher giving then a fighting chance to

tjd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some states allow people to carry on school
> grounds. Utah for example.


Doesn't matter. The Federal law says no guns at school.

not true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whattttt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > There's no such thing as a Federal
> concealed-carry
> > permit.
> >
> > Thanks for the bullshit.
>
>
> Yes there is for LEOs only. Its not something the
> general public can get


NO. BULLSHIT. There is no fucking federal permit. What happens is if a retired LEO is arrested or in danger of arrest, he has to prove that he qualifies under the Federal Law Enforcement Safety Act. There's been at least one case where someone later found to qualify under the act was able to recover a substantial monetary settlemnt after suing for false arrest.

There is no fucking federal permit!

Whatttt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tjd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Some states allow people to carry on school
> > grounds. Utah for example.
>
>
> Doesn't matter. The Federal law says no guns at
> school.


The Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990 (18 U.S.C. § 922(q)) states:

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

(3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;

(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or

(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.

(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

Whatttt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not true Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Whattttt Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > There's no such thing as a Federal
> > concealed-carry
> > > permit.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the bullshit.
> >
> >
> > Yes there is for LEOs only. Its not something
> the
> > general public can get
>
>
> NO. BULLSHIT. There is no fucking federal permit.
> What happens is if a retired LEO is arrested or
> in danger of arrest, he has to prove that he
> qualifies under the Federal Law Enforcement Safety
> Act. There's been at least one case where someone
> later found to qualify under the act was able to
> recover a substantial monetary settlemnt after
> suing for false arrest.
>
> There is no fucking federal permit!

You can say it all you want it doesnt make it true

> > What happens is if a retired LEO is arrested
> or
> > in danger of arrest, he has to prove that he
> > qualifies under the Federal Law Enforcement
> Safety
> > Act. There's been at least one case where
> someone
> > later found to qualify under the act was able
> to
> > recover a substantial monetary settlemnt after
> > suing for false arrest.
> >
> > There is no fucking federal permit!
>
> You can say it all you want it doesnt make it true

Why don't you be a good lad and tell the class what agency issues this permit?

BECAUSE YOU CAN'T.

Whattttt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > What happens is if a retired LEO is arrested
> > or
> > > in danger of arrest, he has to prove that he
> > > qualifies under the Federal Law Enforcement
> > Safety
> > > Act. There's been at least one case where
> > someone
> > > later found to qualify under the act was able
> > to
> > > recover a substantial monetary settlemnt
> after
> > > suing for false arrest.
> > >
> > > There is no fucking federal permit!
> >
> > You can say it all you want it doesnt make it
> true
>
> Why don't you be a good lad and tell the class
> what agency issues this permit?
>
> BECAUSE YOU CAN'T.


Since you're slow, I'll make it easy on you:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#federal-concealed-permit

"Q: Does the Federal Government issue a license or permit to carry a concealed weapon?

No. Neither ATF nor any other Federal agency issues such a permit or license."

Gee, I guess saying it made it true. You can suck me now. G'won, you know you want to.

Whatttttt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whattttt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > > What happens is if a retired LEO is
> arrested
> > > or
> > > > in danger of arrest, he has to prove that
> he
> > > > qualifies under the Federal Law Enforcement
> > > Safety
> > > > Act. There's been at least one case where
> > > someone
> > > > later found to qualify under the act was
> able
> > > to
> > > > recover a substantial monetary settlemnt
> > after
> > > > suing for false arrest.
> > > >
> > > > There is no fucking federal permit!
> > >
> > > You can say it all you want it doesnt make it
> > true
> >
> > Why don't you be a good lad and tell the class
> > what agency issues this permit?
> >
> > BECAUSE YOU CAN'T.
>
>
> Since you're slow, I'll make it easy on you:
>
> http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#feder
> al-concealed-permit
>
> "Q: Does the Federal Government issue a license or
> permit to carry a concealed weapon?
>
> No. Neither ATF nor any other Federal agency
> issues such a permit or license."
>
> Gee, I guess saying it made it true. You can suck
> me now. G'won, you know you want to.

Im glad you pulled up a CIVILIAN Q&A. ITS NOT FOR CIVILIANS for the 100th time. Its probably not even issued by a federal agency but THERE IS a national CC permit LEOs can get.

I dont care if you believe me or not, believe what you want it wont change the reality

Well, we agree on one thing. I don't care if I believe you or not either.

So, still waiting for you to name the agency that issues this IMAGINARY PERMIT THAT DOESN'T EXIST.

C'mon, try. Pretend you're pushing out a real big dump. Try.


>Im glad you pulled up a CIVILIAN Q&A.

"No. Neither ATF nor any other Federal agency
issues such a permit or license."

It's not a "civilian Q&A". It's an ATF website aimed at ANYONE interested in applying for a FFL, including LEOs. Your stupidity is mind-boggling.


"Its probably not even issued by a federal agency but THERE IS a national CC permit LEOs can get."

So now you're saying there's a permit not issued by the federal government that trumps state law like only the federal government can do? Do you fantasize about your mother with that brain?

There is NO SUCH PERMIT!

Do you understand the degree to which you are talking bullshit?

A retired office is issued a permit from their department. That permit is good under HR218 as long as the officer carrying it meets the qualifications under HR218. an Active police officer does not physically carry a permit, they have their credentials.....the retired officers concealed weapons permit and the active officers credentials allow both to carry concealed under under the same law (HR218).

"Whattttttt" if that is what you are trying to say, then I agree.

I do not think there is a "physical" Federal permit issued by anyone......the officers permit from his department is what he carrys under the Federal law (HR218).

And no.....for those dumbasses that cannot read......HR218 does not allow a retired officer to carry concealed on school grounds......I never said it did.

my friend is a retired cop, to comply he must qualify once a year and also carry a department issued card that shows he is retired.

School Obama's Daughters Attend Has 11 Armed Guards (Not counting Secret Service)

It seems that Sidwell has always had armed security, even before
they started attending. I wonder how many other private schools for
the kids of the rich and famous have the same? Something to look into.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/23/School-Obama-s-Daughters-Attend-Has-11-Armed-Guards-Not-Counting-Secret-Service

HoldOnEric Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> School Obama's Daughters Attend Has 11 Armed
> Guards (Not counting Secret Service)
>
> It seems that Sidwell has always had armed
> security, even before
> they started attending. I wonder how many other
> private schools for
> the kids of the rich and famous have the same?
> Something to look into.
>
> http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/23
> /School-Obama-s-Daughters-Attend-Has-11-Armed-Guar
> ds-Not-Counting-Secret-Service


Yes, but that's only for us rich folks. You peasants don't merit such protection for your rat-like, disposable offspring. Now go laugh at the NRA for suggesting it.

I wonder if David Gregory would be willing to explain this one?

"Such a person must possess either:
* photographic ID issued by their previous agency that indicates that they have, in the previous 12 months, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training as established by the agency to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm, or
* both of:
o photographic ID issued by their previous agency, and
o a certification issued by the State in which they live, or by a certified firearms instructor (qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State) that indicates that they have, in the previous 12 months, been tested or otherwise found by the State (or a certified firearms instructor) to have met either:
+ the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training, as established by the State, to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
+ if the State has not established such standards, standards set by any law enforcement agency within that State to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm."

As for retired LEO carrying on school property, see:

"Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about H.R. 218/S. 1132". Website of the Fraternal Order of Police. Fraternal Order of Police. http://www.fop.net/legislative/issues/hr218/hr218faq.pdf.


To sum up, NO FUCKING FEDERAL PERMIT EXISTS! and...

a permit from the former employer is not necessary.

Whattttt


No one is as fucking ignorant as you so I will stop trying to explain this to you.

You are right.....

When you get your brains blown out by a retired cop carrying a permit under federal Law HR218, expalin it to him....

What an idiot.

Im done

I guess I was ignorant of how stupid you are. I'm not arguing that the law doesn't exist, you incredibly dense faggot, I'm just saying that THERE IS NO FUCKING FEDERAL PERMIT.

Whereas you say that there is a federal permit, but not one issued by the federal government, and you don't know who issues it. You are one seriously mongoloid pedophile. Plus from your last post you're clearly a jock sniffer. I bet you squeezed out quite the rope of sperm after you typed that one.

Glad to hear you're done. Your unbelievable stupidity was threatening to become tedious.

Exception ii of the statute referenced above is for concealed carry permit holders, provided the permit was issued by the state that the school is in. The reason CC holders can't carry in school zones is usually a state GFSZ act.

My daughters teacher doesn't even want an insulin pen in her classroom. I can barely even guess what she would think about a gun in the school.