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MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: shootingtime ()
Date: August 24, 2012 10:15AM


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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Mr. Pointy Cap ()
Date: August 24, 2012 10:20AM

Guarantee it's a non-white...

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: August 24, 2012 10:23AM

How could this happen in NYC? They have such strict controls over handguns...

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Evil is pink on the inside ()
Date: August 24, 2012 10:26AM

Mr. Pointy Cap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guarantee it's a non-white...



The last four have been committed by crackers
Betting on the odds?
Killing is killing. Race doesn't matter.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: DHS buddy ()
Date: August 24, 2012 10:43AM

Good thing we have counterterrorism. You know if we cut spending on counterterrorism, this will happen all over the country and it'll be your fault.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Olde Farte, II ()
Date: August 24, 2012 10:46AM

Apparently a "workplace incident" - guy ran after and shot a co-worker then went (further) postal and shot into a bunch of pedestrians before getting shot himself by police.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: All is lost ()
Date: August 24, 2012 10:52AM

DHS buddy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good thing we have counterterrorism. You know if
> we cut spending on counterterrorism, this will
> happen all over the country and it'll be your
> fault.


Go hide in your basement. And get the facts straight before you post.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Lester ()
Date: August 24, 2012 11:13AM

State Senator Malcolm Smith, who had been in the area, told Eyewitness News that a recently fired store worker shot his former manager to death and then randomly opened fired on others near the Empire State Building.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8785101

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: _WHITEY_ ()
Date: August 24, 2012 11:17AM

CONFIRMED

HE WAS A WHITEY

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: RomneyCare ()
Date: August 24, 2012 11:24AM

Fucking gun nutz!

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: DHS buddy ()
Date: August 24, 2012 11:31AM

Some of the victims were shot by police in the firefight. ROFL.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: TheNorthman ()
Date: August 24, 2012 11:41AM

When was the last time the perpetrator of something like this was anything but a white male?

Answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan

Born in the US, of Palestinian descent. Although this guy was in contact with Anwar Al-Awlaki (AQAP) and was most definitely linked to international terrorism…so strictly speaking I don’t know if you would put this in the same catergory as the VA Tech, Columbine or Batman massacres.

**Edit and of course the VA tech massacre…so I have changed my position. This is not a “white only” phenomena.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 11:47AM by TheNorthman.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: NRA Nut ()
Date: August 24, 2012 11:42AM

DHS buddy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of the victims were shot by police in the
> firefight. ROFL.


So apparently the cops killed two innocent people. Ooops!

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Ralph Pootawn ()
Date: August 24, 2012 12:03PM

But guns are illegal in NYC!

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: DHS Buddy ()
Date: August 24, 2012 12:03PM

The two victims' ties to Occupy Empire State Building makes it okay.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Alias ()
Date: August 24, 2012 12:07PM

HA!

The shooter was a ladies' handbag designer.

He's gay!!

Another gay liberal clinging to his purse and his gun.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Fed Up ()
Date: August 24, 2012 12:19PM

Let the false piety of the NRA begin. God forbid we should use this as a springboard for a rational discussion of gun control. Gee...if only the tourists had had guns too.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Red Herring ()
Date: August 24, 2012 12:37PM

Fed Up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let the false piety of the NRA begin. God forbid
> we should use this as a springboard for a rational
> discussion of gun control. Gee...if only the
> tourists had had guns too.

Can you imagine a bunch of gun nuts pulling out guns and shooting up a NYC street. Then police show up and off the all the hand gun owners.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Rednecked ()
Date: August 24, 2012 12:38PM


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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Vexxxed ()
Date: August 24, 2012 12:49PM

Fed Up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let the false piety of the NRA begin. God forbid
> we should use this as a springboard for a rational
> discussion of gun control. Gee...if only the
> tourists had had guns too.


In order for a rational discussion of gun control, one would first want gun control at all.

Does it appear to you that the majority in this country want control?

If it does, I suggest you continue your research.

A dozen nuts, or even a thousand nuts with guns does not justify the disarming of 300,000,000 people.

Deal with it..........by moving to Norway where killing 77 people gets you ten years in jail.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: meh ()
Date: August 24, 2012 01:17PM

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fed Up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Let the false piety of the NRA begin. God
> forbid
> > we should use this as a springboard for a
> rational
> > discussion of gun control. Gee...if only the
> > tourists had had guns too.
>
>
> In order for a rational discussion of gun control,
> one would first want gun control at all.
>
> Does it appear to you that the majority in this
> country want control?
>
> If it does, I suggest you continue your research.
>
> A dozen nuts, or even a thousand nuts with guns
> does not justify the disarming of 300,000,000
> people.
>
> Deal with it..........by moving to Norway where
> killing 77 people gets you ten years in jail.

21 years, and their system works more on reforming the criminal rather than punishing the criminal.

it's like dogs. you teach a dog with positive reinforcement you will have a well behaved dog all the time. if you teach your dog with negative reinforcement, they will just try to get into the trash when you are not looking. sure, the dog knows it wrong and will put his ears down when he's caught, but that won't stop repeat offenses.

Norway is also top 5 in the world on the quality of life index... US is like 15th?
Moving to Norway would be a good idea if you could afford it.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Leftist Gorilla ()
Date: August 24, 2012 02:45PM

Wait...I don't understand...I thought the Right has said that by enabling citizens to carry guns that this would mean there'd be lots of people to assist the PD in bringing shooters like this down before they hurt anyone. Where were all the "perfectly legal and registered gun owners" on this one?

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: You're right ()
Date: August 24, 2012 02:48PM

If only those wounded citizens had guns. They could've defended themselves against the rampaging New York City police.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Leftist Dumb Ass ()
Date: August 24, 2012 03:12PM

Leftist Gorilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wait...I don't understand...I thought the Right
> has said that by enabling citizens to carry guns
> that this would mean there'd be lots of people to
> assist the PD in bringing shooters like this down
> before they hurt anyone. Where were all the
> "perfectly legal and registered gun owners" on
> this one?


No kidding you do not understand dumb ass. NYC has some of the toughest antigun laws. It is ILLEGAL for citizens to carry firearms in NYC.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Riddle Me This ()
Date: August 24, 2012 03:19PM

Chicago, New York and Washington DC have some of the toughest Antigun Laws right now but yet has far more gun violence then other citys that do not have such antigun laws.I guess the gun laws work great. So lets make more of them because that will work so well. Maybe they need to enforce the current laws and fix their justice system. Maybe they need to get tougher mandatory jail time for people caught with illegal guns. Say MANDATORY 10 years if convicted with illegal gun. Make it so the judge or DA can not reduce it. See what would happen.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: It's Official... ()
Date: August 24, 2012 04:09PM

...all of the civilian woundings were caused by the police. At least the perp -Jeffrey Johnson- had the courtesy of shooting at the cops. NYPD can't shoot for shit, apparently.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Leftist Gorilla ()
Date: August 24, 2012 04:10PM

Leftist Dumb Ass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is ILLEGAL for citizens to carry firearms in NYC.

Oh, ok...so, I guess the shooter wasn't aware of this then, huh? You sure are a dumb ass...

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Lester ()
Date: August 24, 2012 04:28PM

"Most licenses issued in New York City are for on-premises possession only, for self-defense within the home or business."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York#New_York_City

It seems someone who worked at a store could've successfully applied for a gun license.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Left is Lost ()
Date: August 24, 2012 04:32PM

Leftist Gorilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leftist Dumb Ass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is ILLEGAL for citizens to carry firearms in
> NYC.
>
> Oh, ok...so, I guess the shooter wasn't aware of
> this then, huh? You sure are a dumb ass...


^ LOL! Typical.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Brian C ()
Date: August 24, 2012 04:55PM

Empire State Building shooter right after the cops took him down - forwarded from friends in NYC.
Attachments:
2xb3s.jpg

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 24, 2012 05:15PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How could this happen in NYC? They have such
> strict controls over handguns...


You mean to tell me that some one whose willing to kill people for no reason has no respect for the handgun ban?

I cant believe a murderer wouldnt respect other laws.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: tingly leg ()
Date: August 24, 2012 05:18PM

Has the media blamed the Tea Party yet?

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: JenK ()
Date: August 24, 2012 05:37PM

Leftist Dumb Ass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No kidding you do not understand dumb ass. NYC has
> some of the toughest antigun laws. It is ILLEGAL
> for citizens to carry firearms in NYC.

It is ILLEGAL to drive drunk, to smoke pot, to rob someone, the list just goes on and on and on.....but these things are done over and over everyday. What does that matter in reality? This guy obviously didn't care....what if another random person had been carring their gun and shot this guy as soon as he started? Would you be attacking them or praising them? Just curious.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Brian C ()
Date: August 24, 2012 05:46PM

Here's a pic of the victim he shot
Attachments:
GUwVn.jpg

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: August 24, 2012 07:07PM

Leftist Gorilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where were all the
> "perfectly legal and registered gun owners" on
> this one?

Obeying the law and staying out of jail, like most citizens. Bloomberg doesn't want any legal guns, and his disarmed populace in NYC obviously couldn't defend themselves. The cops had to shoot up a city block to take a single criminal down, that's what you get when you disarm law-abiding citizens. People who choose not to obey laws get free "God Mode" like in video games. Same reason why a friggin box cutter was all that was needed to kill thousands on 9/11. Systematic resistance to self-defense means it ain't there the rare times it is needed.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: August 24, 2012 07:11PM

Talk about breaking stereotypes; the fashion designer turned shooter was using a .45 ACP......and he didn't surrender like the Batman shooter, he engaged the NYPD after killing his boss.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 24, 2012 07:16PM

JenK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It is ILLEGAL to drive drunk, to smoke pot, to rob
> someone, the list just goes on and on and
> on.....but these things are done over and over
> everyday. What does that matter in reality? This
> guy obviously didn't care....what if another
> random person had been carring their gun and shot
> this guy as soon as he started? Would you be
> attacking them or praising them? Just curious.

Thats not an argument. Guns get you years in jail. Law abiding citizens dont illegally carry guns. I like how you lump gun owners in with a murdering criminal.

If someone happened to shoot him people would think he was a hero and NYC wouldnt care and would charge him with every gun law they can and hed spend the next decade in jail.

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old school shooting death
Posted by: Lester ()
Date: August 25, 2012 10:33AM

In the movies these days, the shooter would've jumped back as if the thrust of the bullet would propel his body in the air.


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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: HappyDave ()
Date: August 25, 2012 10:41AM

Fucking bitch walking with the little girl in the blue shirt abandons her when the shit goes down.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: August 25, 2012 11:02AM

So according to CNN, all nine bystanders wounded were from NYPD gunfire; the shooter only shot his boss, nothing else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2012 11:03AM by eesh.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Warhawk ()
Date: August 25, 2012 11:03AM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So according to CNN, all nine bystanders wounded
> were from NYPD gunfire; the shooter only shot his
> victim, nothing else.


Either the police are piss poorly trained in aiming or they got a little overzealous.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: tomahawk ()
Date: August 25, 2012 12:13PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So according to CNN, all nine bystanders wounded
> were from NYPD gunfire; the shooter only shot his
> boss, nothing else.

LOL I bet we won't see Bloomberg whining about cops having too many guns, though.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 25, 2012 03:09PM

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So according to CNN, all nine bystanders
> wounded
> > were from NYPD gunfire; the shooter only shot
> his
> > victim, nothing else.
>
>
> Either the police are piss poorly trained in
> aiming or they got a little overzealous.


Training is probably a big issue. NYPD police have to buy their own guns, I doubt theres a ton of money for training ammo in the budget

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: JenK ()
Date: August 25, 2012 03:20PM

bans dont do anything Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JenK Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > It is ILLEGAL to drive drunk, to smoke pot, to
> rob
> > someone, the list just goes on and on and
> > on.....but these things are done over and over
> > everyday. What does that matter in reality?
> This
> > guy obviously didn't care....what if another
> > random person had been carring their gun and
> shot
> > this guy as soon as he started? Would you be
> > attacking them or praising them? Just curious.
>
> Thats not an argument. Guns get you years in
> jail. Law abiding citizens dont illegally carry
> guns. I like how you lump gun owners in with a
> murdering criminal.
>
> If someone happened to shoot him people would
> think he was a hero and NYC wouldnt care and would
> charge him with every gun law they can and hed
> spend the next decade in jail.


What part of it is "not an argument"? Law abiding citizens don't drive drunk, do drugs, etc. Or are you saying they do because it's less jail time?

Because you just made my point exactly. If a "law abiding citizen w/a gun" (even if carring it was illegal for them too) had shot him and no one had been shot by police, he'd be a hero...not in my opinion, the reality is he'd be a criminal who was breaking the law by carring his own gun. It's funny what you can make work in your head even if its wrong.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 25, 2012 03:51PM

JenK Wrote:

> What part of it is "not an argument"? Law abiding
> citizens don't drive drunk, do drugs, etc. Or are
> you saying they do because it's less jail time?

Im saying that yes people are more likely to break a law if the punishment isnt that bad. DUIs are just terrible judgement from being impaired and kind of in a class of their own. But yes with guns your talking about years in jail and being labeled a felony often times as opposed to a fine if you get caught with weed.

> Because you just made my point exactly. If a "law
> abiding citizen w/a gun" (even if carring it was
> illegal for them too) had shot him and no one had
> been shot by police, he'd be a hero...not in my
> opinion, the reality is he'd be a criminal who was
> breaking the law by carring his own gun. It's
> funny what you can make work in your head even if
> its wrong.

I cant even begin to fathom how you can say someone that shoots and kills someone on a shooting spree isnt a hero.

Thats not entirely accurate. You can transport guns through states regardless of their laws as long as you dont stop. For example they could be coming from VA to go to Vermont or some other gun friendly state and as long as they didnt stop in NY wouldnt be breaking the law. They could have been driving through seen the shooting and stopped to help. Once they stop theyve broken the law, but theyre stopping to save lives. Id take my chances with a jury on that one. But more importantly just as a human being. If you have the means to stop a killer you should regardless of consequences. I would love to see the PR from that one. "NY City jails hero who stopped Empire State Shooter". Someone would pardon him if nothing more than political gain.

Also if you are a leo in any state or federal agency you can get national cc permits where you can carry a gun in any state regardless of their laws as well. So yes a cop from another state could have been around with his gun and would in fact be a law abiding citizen carrying a gun in NYC.

You seem to be missing the fact theres different degrees of breaking the law. If breaking it in any way shape or form is your definition of not being law abiding then no one is a law abiding citizen. Driving in the left lane in VA is illegal, if youve ever done that by your standard youre not a law abiding citizen. Theres a million illegal things people do every single day that are against the law but the police dont enforce very often. Should you carry guns in NYC no, but if you have one for whatever reason and someones on a shooting spree you should absolutely be a human being and do what you can to stop it and save lives

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: tomahawk ()
Date: August 25, 2012 05:25PM

The cops, having shot innocent bystanders, will no doubt say they they were in the right and refuse to apologize unless some higher up orders them to.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: 2 cents ()
Date: August 25, 2012 06:09PM

I wonder how many lawsuits will come out of this.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: friskydingo ()
Date: August 25, 2012 06:12PM

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When was the last time the perpetrator of
> something like this was anything but a white
> male?
>
> Answer:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan
>
> Born in the US, of Palestinian descent. Although
> this guy was in contact with Anwar Al-Awlaki
> (AQAP) and was most definitely linked to
> international terrorism…so strictly speaking I
> don’t know if you would put this in the same
> catergory as the VA Tech, Columbine or Batman
> massacres.
>
> **Edit and of course the VA tech massacre…so I
> have changed my position. This is not a “white
> only” phenomena.


Don't forget the DC sniper(s)

 

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: tomahawk ()
Date: August 25, 2012 06:21PM

This wasn't a mass shooting. The guy murdered his former boss, and then the cops showed up and shot all the bystanders.

Were all the cops white?

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: NYC guy ()
Date: August 25, 2012 06:31PM

The cops confronted him after the construction worker fingered him.



The shooter emerged from the curbside and waved the gun at the cops.

No choice but to shoot.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: August 25, 2012 07:52PM

bans dont do anything Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Training is probably a big issue. NYPD police
> have to buy their own guns
, I doubt theres a ton
> of money for training ammo in the budget




WTF are you talking about?

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: friskydingo ()
Date: August 25, 2012 07:55PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bans dont do anything Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Training is probably a big issue. NYPD police
> > have to buy their own guns, I doubt theres a
> ton
> > of money for training ammo in the budget
>
>
>
>
> WTF are you talking about?


I've heard that also, dunno if its true tho.

 

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 25, 2012 08:03PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bans dont do anything Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Training is probably a big issue. NYPD police
> > have to buy their own guns, I doubt theres a
> ton
> > of money for training ammo in the budget
>
>
>
>
> WTF are you talking about?

NYPD officers have to buy their own guns. Its self explanatory.

They get a list they can chose from and a certain amount of money that doesnt cover the entire cost if they still get any money at all for their guns.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: August 25, 2012 08:10PM

bans dont do anything Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> NYPD officers have to buy their own guns. Its
> self explanatory.



Bullshit!



> They get a list they can chose from



Yes, they do get a choice....I have heard this. I know when they graduate the academy they can choose a Glock or Smith & Wesson.....officers that graduated the academy before '92 or '93 can still carry Smith & Wesson Model 10s.


It doesn't mean they have to pay for their firearm. They get a clothing allowance, but that isn't for their duty weapons.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: Vexxxed ()
Date: August 25, 2012 09:15PM

In the initial chaos Friday, it wasn't clear whether Johnson or the officers were responsible for the trail of wounded, but based on ballistic and other evidence, "it appears that all nine of the victims were struck either by fragments or by bullets fired by police," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly told reporters on Saturday at a community event in Harlem.

He reiterated that the officers appeared to have no choice but to shoot Johnson, whose body had 10 bullets wounds in the chest, arms and legs.

"I believe it was handled well, considering those stupid civilians had to be shot in order to get us a clear shot at the suspect" Kelly said.

(some of the last line above may or may not be in the original copy but you can bet your ass that's what happened.)

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: tomahawk ()
Date: August 25, 2012 09:20PM

Those shooting victims should thank those brave officers for shooting them to protect them from the guy with a gun.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: August 25, 2012 09:22PM

Sounds like the handbag designer was the better shot than the trained police officers....he had a .45 with an eight round magazine, at least five rounds went into his boss.....yet nine bystanders were wounded. It doesn't look good for the NYPD.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: JenK ()
Date: August 25, 2012 09:45PM

>"I cant even begin to fathom how you can say someone that shoots and kills someone on a shooting spree isnt a hero."

-It wasn't a "spree", it seems he shot one person, then showed the gun to officers, yadayadayada. I'm still waiting to hear the total of people he shot as opposed to the NYCpolice.

>"Thats not entirely accurate. You can transport guns through states regardless of their laws as long as you dont stop. For example they could be coming from VA to go to Vermont or some other gun friendly state and as long as they didnt stop in NY wouldnt be breaking the law. They could have been driving through seen the shooting and stopped to help. Once they stop theyve broken the law, but theyre stopping to save lives. Id take my chances with a jury on that one. But more importantly just as a human being. If you have the means to stop a killer you should regardless of consequences. I would love to see the PR from that one. "NY City jails hero who stopped Empire State Shooter". Someone would pardon him if nothing more than political gain."

-So you're saying it's ok to pardon someone who pulled out his gun and shot a man he saw w/a gun...ok, that sounds real smart. (but then again, Idk how far he was from where he shot his boss, did the police see this, did the other citizens? The vid looks as if no one noticed til shooting began, via cops. I think it was actually said he was pointed out to cops, you think theyd notice if he were in the midst of a "shooting spree")

>"Also if you are a leo in any state or federal agency you can get national cc permits where you can carry a gun in any state regardless of their laws as well. So yes a cop from another state could have been around with his gun and would in fact be a law abiding citizen carrying a gun in NYC."

-You're stretching now. That's a big one to hope for. Coulda, woulda, shoulda never DID a damn thing. But I'm sure it's likely that happens all the time...............................

>"You seem to be missing the fact theres different degrees of breaking the law. If breaking it in any way shape or form is your definition of not being law abiding then no one is a law abiding citizen. Driving in the left lane in VA is illegal, if youve ever done that by your standard youre not a law abiding citizen. Theres a million illegal things people do every single day that are against the law but the police dont enforce very often. Should you carry guns in NYC no, but if you have one for whatever reason and someones on a shooting spree you should absolutely be a human being and do what you can to stop it and save lives"

-So what you're saying is its ok not to abide the law as long as you're not breaking any 'major' ones? If I know I'm going to get drunk at a bar, still drive home, have an accident and kill 4 people(including a 3yr old) That's ok? Your argument has a shitty basis here. Just because people break the law in varing degrees does not make them better. Yes, pot may only get me a slap on the wrist, so if I smoke it and drive home, no biggie...if I smoke it, pass out driving and kill a family, I guess youd still be on my side, I mean, it's not like the pot carried a jail term or anything......stupid stupid point to make!!! And I'm still trying to figure out who's life got saved here....

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: friskydingo ()
Date: August 25, 2012 09:47PM

TLDR

 

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 25, 2012 09:58PM

JenK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> -It wasn't a "spree", it seems he shot one person,
> then showed the gun to officers, yadayadayada.
> I'm still waiting to hear the total of people he
> shot as opposed to the NYCpolice.

Which is to many, had they not shot or been there you dont know what he would have done. Either way killing 1 person for no reason is still too many

> -So you're saying it's ok to pardon someone who
> pulled out his gun and shot a man he saw w/a
> gun...ok, that sounds real smart. (but then
> again, Idk how far he was from where he shot his
> boss, did the police see this, did the other
> citizens? The vid looks as if no one noticed til
> shooting began, via cops. I think it was actually
> said he was pointed out to cops, you think theyd
> notice if he were in the midst of a "shooting
> spree")

If he was actively shooting people yes or threatening people with it yes. If your in VA no you dont just shoot people who have a gun on their hip. If your in an office building and someone is pointing it around shooting or threatening to shoot people then yes it is. Things arent black and white. I cant tell you every instance its okay and every instance its not.

> -You're stretching now. That's a big one to hope
> for. Coulda, woulda, shoulda never DID a damn
> thing. But I'm sure it's likely that happens all
> the time...............................

Wasnt a stretch just stating facts. Cops can carry anywhere. At the end of the day the only person responsible for this shooting is the shooter himself.

> -So what you're saying is its ok not to abide the
> law as long as you're not breaking any 'major'
> ones? If I know I'm going to get drunk at a bar,
> still drive home, have an accident and kill 4
> people(including a 3yr old) That's ok? Your
> argument has a shitty basis here. Just because
> people break the law in varing degrees does not
> make them better. Yes, pot may only get me a slap
> on the wrist, so if I smoke it and drive home, no
> biggie...if I smoke it, pass out driving and kill
> a family, I guess youd still be on my side, I
> mean, it's not like the pot carried a jail term or
> anything......stupid stupid point to make!!! And
> I'm still trying to figure out who's life got
> saved here....

I never said DUIs are okay or driving drunk is okay I was saying why it happens, doesnt mean they shouldnt be punished if caught.

You have a holier than now attitude that youve never broken a single law in your life, I can assure you you have. Do you live in va? If so if youve ever had sex youve broken the law. If youve ever given a bj youve broken the law. If youve driven in the left lane youve broken the law. If you havent gotten out of the way to allow a car to pass you in the left lane youve broken the law.

At no point was I ever defending driving drunk and theres no way any reasonable person could have come to that conclusion. I was just pointing out how your argument has been that all laws are created equal, they arent. Despite what you may think you have in fact broken many laws in your life and will continue to do so on a daily basis. Does that mean youre the same as the shooter because according to you you seem to want to lump everyone whose ever broken 1 law into the same category

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 25, 2012 10:00PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bans dont do anything Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > NYPD officers have to buy their own guns. Its
> > self explanatory.
>
>
>
> Bullshit!


Yea I should believe you over cops then.

Believe it or dont doesnt change what actually happens and is no sweat off my back. If they do get issued guns its a new policy at the very least but I doubt theyve changed anything

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: August 25, 2012 10:02PM

bans dont do anything Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > bans dont do anything Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > NYPD officers have to buy their own guns.
> Its
> > > self explanatory.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bullshit!
>
>
> Yea I should believe you over cops then.
>
> Believe it or dont doesnt change what actually
> happens and is no sweat off my back. If they do
> get issued guns its a new policy at the very least
> but I doubt theyve changed anything





You don't know what you are talking about. I guess you think they buy their own cruisers too, huh?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 25, 2012 10:09PM

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bans dont do anything Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > eesh Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > bans dont do anything Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > > NYPD officers have to buy their own guns.
> > Its
> > > > self explanatory.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bullshit!
> >
> >
> > Yea I should believe you over cops then.
> >
> > Believe it or dont doesnt change what actually
> > happens and is no sweat off my back. If they
> do
> > get issued guns its a new policy at the very
> least
> > but I doubt theyve changed anything
>
>
>
>
> You don't know what you are talking about. I guess
> you think they buy their own cruisers too, huh?


Nope but theres no reason to waste any time arguing with an internet know it all

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: August 25, 2012 10:13PM

bans dont do anything Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Nope but theres no reason to waste any time
> arguing with an internet know it all




When you can provide a link, preferably from nyc.gov that details how their officers have to purchase their own firearms, let me know.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: friskydingo ()
Date: August 25, 2012 10:49PM

Been doing some reading, eesh is correct, they have a choice of several weapons that are department issued.

They are allowed to purchase an off duty weapon from a specific list and the weapon cannot be modified. I'm guessing this is the case because of nyc's gun control laws.

I found this info on a police forum that supposedly only allows verifiable cops to post. How they verify I do not know.

http://www.realpolice.net/forums/archive/t-23400.html

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2012 10:58PM by friskydingo.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 25, 2012 10:57PM

friskydingo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been doing some reading, eesh is correct, they
> have a choice of several weapons that are
> department issued.
>
> They are allowed to purchase an off duty weapon
> from a specific list and it cannot be modified.
> I'm guessing this is the case because of nyc's gun
> control laws.
>
> I found this info on a police forum that
> supposedly only allows verifiable cops to post.
> How they verify I do not know.
>
> http://www.realpolice.net/forums/archive/t-23400.
> html


They do have a list to chose from. Never argued that.

The only way you will know where the funding from the weapons comes from is to apply. They wont tell you that information on their website just like local police wont tell their quotas on it. Youll learn it during the process.

Theres no way they verify on that site, if it was that legit it wouldnt be an open forum.

But like I said doesnt change what actually happens. Ill believe my cop friends over eesh but everyones free to believe what they want which is the last thing Ill say on the subject.

Either way Bloomburgs nanny state clearly cant prevent criminals from doing what they want

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: friskydingo ()
Date: August 25, 2012 11:02PM

The posters on that forum go into much much detail, I tend to believe them.

Earlier I said that I also had once heard that the nyc police purchased their own side arms. I heard that from a cop as well. Perhaps that was the case in the past or something.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2012 11:02PM by friskydingo.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 25, 2012 11:28PM

friskydingo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The posters on that forum go into much much
> detail, I tend to believe them.
>
> Earlier I said that I also had once heard that the
> nyc police purchased their own side arms. I heard
> that from a cop as well. Perhaps that was the case
> in the past or something

It is possible they changed it I cant say for sure.

It is pretty absurd to expect them to do that.

My general impression is its one of the worst to work for in terms of getting supplied and paid back for them, but the best to work for in the sense their union is so strong its impossible to get fired. Some cops got caught using hookers on duty and were just reassigned to desk jobs thanks to the union

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: JenK ()
Date: August 26, 2012 04:29PM

"I never said DUIs are okay or driving drunk is okay I was saying why it happens, doesnt mean they shouldnt be punished if caught."

-That is not saying it's ok? Again, it's fine if you don't get caught. What if said shooter had just headed home and there was no more conflict? If he managed "not to get caught" after shooting his boss, would that make it ok? As far as I'm concerned, yes, drunk drivers(caught or not!) are in the same damn catagory as a murderer, they just don't hae a specific target in mind when they lose control of their car one day!


"You have a holier than now attitude that youve never broken a single law in your life, I can assure you you have. Do you live in va? If so if youve ever had sex youve broken the law. If youve ever given a bj youve broken the law. If youve driven in the left lane youve broken the law. If you havent gotten out of the way to allow a car to pass you in the left lane youve broken the law."

-Oh yes, I got pregnant at 16 and I'm sure I gave him a bj more than once...married to the same man I was dating then. Will that ever kill someone? I'm really curious that you're using 100yr old sex laws in an argument that a stranger breaking the law by having a gun would have been a hero to have shot this guy. Again, how MANY people did the "guy on a spree" shoot? You're ignoring facts to call me stupid.

"At no point was I ever defending driving drunk and theres no way any reasonable person could have come to that conclusion. I was just pointing out how your argument has been that all laws are created equal, they arent. Despite what you may think you have in fact broken many laws in your life and will continue to do so on a daily basis. Does that mean youre the same as the shooter because according to you you seem to want to lump everyone whose ever broken 1 law into the same category"

-I mentioned drunk driving, posession of drugs and robbery and that got YOU on a holier than thou tirade about all law-breakers not being equal. You say a reasonable person couldn't come to that conclusion, I say you're doing something illegal on a regular basis(not that you'll admit what) but it's not "as bad" as it could be....let me guess, you hae an ounce of weed for "medicinial" use and that's cool cause it should be legal, it's only a plant......*sigh* and I just went and lumped you into the shooter catagory...sorry buddy, take another hit before you reply, it'll mellow you out.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: bans dont do anything ()
Date: August 26, 2012 05:09PM

JenK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> -That is not saying it's ok? Again, it's fine if
> you don't get caught. What if said shooter had
> just headed home and there was no more conflict?
> If he managed "not to get caught" after shooting
> his boss, would that make it ok? As far as I'm
> concerned, yes, drunk drivers(caught or not!) are
> in the same damn catagory as a murderer, they just
> don't hae a specific target in mind when they lose
> control of their car one day!

How dense are you. You have to be caught to be punished.

Furthermore you are incredibly quick to judge other people yet feel the laws dont apply to you. Just breaking all kinds of laws left and right yet somehow youre supposed to be better than everyone else as you believe in no tolerance of breaking the law at all? Look in the mirror first before you want to start making statements about others

You could have gotten and STD and been spreading it around with all your sex or killed someone giving them AIDs. Just like you dont care if someone kills someone or not theyre just as bad as a murderer to you, I dont care that you didnt give anyone AIDs you could have. See how stupid that sounds? Thats what you sound like.

> -Oh yes, I got pregnant at 16 and I'm sure I gave
> him a bj more than once...married to the same man
> I was dating then. Will that ever kill someone?
> I'm really curious that you're using 100yr old sex
> laws in an argument that a stranger breaking the
> law by having a gun would have been a hero to have
> shot this guy. Again, how MANY people did the
> "guy on a spree" shoot? You're ignoring facts to
> call me stupid.

By your own standards no one should take you seriously. Youre a criminal. Youve made it perfect clear if you break any law youre a criminal. Furthermore you made it perfectly clear above as far as youre concerned you dont care if people get caught or not theyre a criminal just for doing it. The same standards you have been applying to everything else apply to you as well.

I havent ignored any facts. Youre dense because you took a simple factual statement and are trying to turn this into youre own personal crusade to say someone who drives drunk is as bad as a murderer even if they got lucky and got home. Its absolutely insane. If you dont murder someone you arent as bad as a murderer period.

If someone had a gun and can stop a murderer theyre a hero if they do so end of story.

> -I mentioned drunk driving, posession of drugs and
> robbery and that got YOU on a holier than thou
> tirade about all law-breakers not being equal.
> You say a reasonable person couldn't come to that
> conclusion, I say you're doing something illegal
> on a regular basis(not that you'll admit what) but
> it's not "as bad" as it could be....let me guess,
> you hae an ounce of weed for "medicinial" use and
> that's cool cause it should be legal, it's only a
> plant......*sigh* and I just went and lumped you
> into the shooter catagory...sorry buddy, take
> another hit before you reply, it'll mellow you
> out.

Ah and now that youve been exposed for how dumb your argument is you resort to personal attacks. I dont touch drugs or do anything illegal. Being in the criminal justice field I just understand not all criminals are alike. Not everyone should be locked up for minor things.

By your own standards you should be behind bars

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: August 27, 2012 09:44AM

This is baffling... why were the police taking head shots and not going center-mass? No wonder so many bystanders were hit. I can't believe NYC police are trained to take head shots, especially in a crowded area.



http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/26/13490305-police-empire-state-shooter-was-losing-his-apartment?lite

Ercolino died of multiple gunshot wounds to the head. He was shot five times in the head and face, according to the medical examiner. He also had a superficial wound to chest that may have been result of a ricochet of one of the shots to the head.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: August 27, 2012 09:48AM

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is baffling... why were the police taking
> head shots and not going center-mass? No wonder
> so many bystanders were hit. I can't believe NYC
> police are trained to take head shots, especially
> in a crowded area.




Another thing is NYPD requires their duty weapons to be double action only and modified with a 12 pound trigger pull. It's very difficult to make accurate shots DAO with such a ridiculous trigger.



http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/foghorn/nypds-choice-of-firearm-may-have-contributed-to-the-terrible-shooting/

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: August 27, 2012 10:04AM

Heavy trigger DAO is very hard to shoot, done it and don't like it. Using that in a stressful situation for head shots is insane. They might as well have started shooting the bystanders before the guy showed up.

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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: icametoheal guns for all ()
Date: August 27, 2012 12:33PM


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Re: MASS SHOOTING AT EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.....BREAKING
Posted by: tomahawk ()
Date: August 27, 2012 05:42PM


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