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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Gun deaths, lets keep it in perspective [NHTSA Traffic Deaths Report]
Posted by:
ReadingIsFundamental
()
Date: July 24, 2012 02:13PM
7,630 traffic deaths occured in the first three months of 2012. Some of those accidents, like the 14 killed in a pickup truck accident in Texas last week, kill more in a single event than most "massacres" that are played over and over on the news.
Politicians come out of the woodwork. Mayors demand something be done.
And yet here we have this other cause of death that is much worse, kills more people, and isn't covered by a Consitutional right. Why don't we go after that one with bans? Vehicles are much more deadly than firearms, yet we allow 16-year-olds to control them.
Why are stern-faced national politicians so bent over gun deaths when we have several times more traffic deaths? Why not address traffic deaths and fix that before attacking the Bill of Rights, especially when there is clear evidence that relaxing gun laws reduces gun crime?
(NHTSA numbers source - http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120720/AUTO01/207200430/1361/U.S.-traffic-deaths-jump-13.5-percent-in-2012 )
Politicians come out of the woodwork. Mayors demand something be done.
And yet here we have this other cause of death that is much worse, kills more people, and isn't covered by a Consitutional right. Why don't we go after that one with bans? Vehicles are much more deadly than firearms, yet we allow 16-year-olds to control them.
Why are stern-faced national politicians so bent over gun deaths when we have several times more traffic deaths? Why not address traffic deaths and fix that before attacking the Bill of Rights, especially when there is clear evidence that relaxing gun laws reduces gun crime?
(NHTSA numbers source - http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120720/AUTO01/207200430/1361/U.S.-traffic-deaths-jump-13.5-percent-in-2012 )
Re: Gun deaths, lets keep it in perspective [NHTSA Traffic Deaths Report]
Posted by:
Devil Advocate
()
Date: July 24, 2012 02:39PM
Im assuming because most traffic deaths are the result of and accident, where as gun deaths are typically intentional.
In which case you could argue knives as a better argument though.....because stabbing deaths are typically intentional.
In which case you could argue knives as a better argument though.....because stabbing deaths are typically intentional.
Re: Gun deaths, lets keep it in perspective [NHTSA Traffic Deaths Report]
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: July 24, 2012 02:49PM
It's a dumb comparison. When I get in a vehicle, I am choosing to run that risk. I'm not choosing to get shot by some crazy fucker in a movie theater.
Also note that the per capita gun deaths in your chart drop at the same time the Brady Bill was enacted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Handgun_Violence_Prevention_Act
And began to rise again in 2004 after the expiration of the Assault Weapons Ban.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban
Sounds to me like you are making the argument for more gun control.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Also note that the per capita gun deaths in your chart drop at the same time the Brady Bill was enacted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Handgun_Violence_Prevention_Act
And began to rise again in 2004 after the expiration of the Assault Weapons Ban.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban
Sounds to me like you are making the argument for more gun control.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: Gun deaths, lets keep it in perspective [NHTSA Traffic Deaths Report]
Posted by:
no
()
Date: July 24, 2012 07:12PM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a dumb comparison. When I get in a vehicle, I
> am choosing to run that risk. I'm not choosing to
> get shot by some crazy fucker in a movie theater.
>
>
> Also note that the per capita gun deaths in your
> chart drop at the same time the Brady Bill was
> enacted.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Handgun_Violenc
> e_Prevention_Act
>
> And began to rise again in 2004 after the
> expiration of the Assault Weapons Ban.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban
>
> Sounds to me like you are making the argument for
> more gun control.
Nice point, except for the fact that you ignored the part about ALL crime dropping during those years. And how gun crime is the highest in places where guns are banned
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a dumb comparison. When I get in a vehicle, I
> am choosing to run that risk. I'm not choosing to
> get shot by some crazy fucker in a movie theater.
>
>
> Also note that the per capita gun deaths in your
> chart drop at the same time the Brady Bill was
> enacted.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Handgun_Violenc
> e_Prevention_Act
>
> And began to rise again in 2004 after the
> expiration of the Assault Weapons Ban.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban
>
> Sounds to me like you are making the argument for
> more gun control.
Nice point, except for the fact that you ignored the part about ALL crime dropping during those years. And how gun crime is the highest in places where guns are banned
Re: Gun deaths, lets keep it in perspective [NHTSA Traffic Deaths Report]
Posted by:
justsayin
()
Date: July 24, 2012 07:19PM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I get in a vehicle, I
> am choosing to run that risk. I'm not choosing to
> get shot by some crazy fucker in a movie theater.
When I get into a vehicle, I'm not electing to take the risk of being killed by a drunk driver any more than someone going to a movie elects to take the risk of being shot. Both are unfortunate possibilities we now know.
2009 saw 10,839 drunk driving deaths, 2009 saw 9,146 murders by firearm. That is an apples-to-apples comparison of someone taking an action that harms another. Drunk driving has an 18+% lead.
People who have killed others in a DUI event are not blocked from buying alcohol, while violent criminals are blocked from buying firearms.
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I get in a vehicle, I
> am choosing to run that risk. I'm not choosing to
> get shot by some crazy fucker in a movie theater.
When I get into a vehicle, I'm not electing to take the risk of being killed by a drunk driver any more than someone going to a movie elects to take the risk of being shot. Both are unfortunate possibilities we now know.
2009 saw 10,839 drunk driving deaths, 2009 saw 9,146 murders by firearm. That is an apples-to-apples comparison of someone taking an action that harms another. Drunk driving has an 18+% lead.
People who have killed others in a DUI event are not blocked from buying alcohol, while violent criminals are blocked from buying firearms.
Re: Gun deaths, lets keep it in perspective [NHTSA Traffic Deaths Report]
Posted by:
trogdor!
()
Date: July 24, 2012 09:38PM
justsayin Wrote:
> 2009 saw 10,839 drunk driving deaths, 2009 saw
> 9,146 murders by firearm. That is an
> apples-to-apples comparison of someone taking an
> action that harms another. Drunk driving has an
> 18+% lead.
>
> People who have killed others in a DUI event are
> not blocked from buying alcohol, while violent
> criminals are blocked from buying firearms.
And lets not forget all the people who:
A: Commit suicide by alcohol
B: Commit other violent crimes (assault, rape, murder, etc) after getting a good buzz on.
I mean look at this: Alcohol kills more than AIDS, TB or violence: WHO
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/us-alcohol-idUSTRE71A2FM20110211
"Approximately 2.5 million people die each year from alcohol related causes, the WHO said in its "Global Status Report on Alcohol and Health."
If it saves the life of just one child....
And what socially redeeming value does alcohol have? And there's no constitutional issues with banning it either.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 09:39PM by trogdor!.
> 2009 saw 10,839 drunk driving deaths, 2009 saw
> 9,146 murders by firearm. That is an
> apples-to-apples comparison of someone taking an
> action that harms another. Drunk driving has an
> 18+% lead.
>
> People who have killed others in a DUI event are
> not blocked from buying alcohol, while violent
> criminals are blocked from buying firearms.
And lets not forget all the people who:
A: Commit suicide by alcohol
B: Commit other violent crimes (assault, rape, murder, etc) after getting a good buzz on.
I mean look at this: Alcohol kills more than AIDS, TB or violence: WHO
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/us-alcohol-idUSTRE71A2FM20110211
"Approximately 2.5 million people die each year from alcohol related causes, the WHO said in its "Global Status Report on Alcohol and Health."
If it saves the life of just one child....
And what socially redeeming value does alcohol have? And there's no constitutional issues with banning it either.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 09:39PM by trogdor!.
Re: Gun deaths, lets keep it in perspective [NHTSA Traffic Deaths Report]
Posted by:
1920s
()
Date: July 25, 2012 02:09AM
trogdor! Wrote:
> And what socially redeeming value does alcohol
> have? And there's no constitutional issues with
> banning it either.
Apparently you ignore everything that happened before you born. You should look up the 1920s. Specifically 1919-1933
> And what socially redeeming value does alcohol
> have? And there's no constitutional issues with
> banning it either.
Apparently you ignore everything that happened before you born. You should look up the 1920s. Specifically 1919-1933
Re: Gun deaths, lets keep it in perspective [NHTSA Traffic Deaths Report]
Posted by:
trogdor!
()
Date: July 25, 2012 08:31AM
1920s Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently you ignore everything that happened
> before you born. You should look up the 1920s.
> Specifically 1919-1933
I'm aware, obviously. The point is that (1) banning something doesn't make it magically go away, and (2) If we're going to start banning things to "save lives", lets start with something that kills more people, has no constitutional hurdles and has no socially redeeming value (remember there's grape juice, which provides the same benefits as wine, without the risk of alcoholism).
When alcohol is brought up, which is _clearly_ a massive killer of both of innocent people (DUI accidents) and alcoholics, the safety first crowd suddenly get's cold feet. They don't want to ban *that* for some reason.
I'm sure it's because they like to have a cold beer while ranting about how we need to ban these dangerous guns.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently you ignore everything that happened
> before you born. You should look up the 1920s.
> Specifically 1919-1933
I'm aware, obviously. The point is that (1) banning something doesn't make it magically go away, and (2) If we're going to start banning things to "save lives", lets start with something that kills more people, has no constitutional hurdles and has no socially redeeming value (remember there's grape juice, which provides the same benefits as wine, without the risk of alcoholism).
When alcohol is brought up, which is _clearly_ a massive killer of both of innocent people (DUI accidents) and alcoholics, the safety first crowd suddenly get's cold feet. They don't want to ban *that* for some reason.
I'm sure it's because they like to have a cold beer while ranting about how we need to ban these dangerous guns.