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Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Tire Consumer ()
Date: July 23, 2012 05:00PM

I just bought 4 tires for my wife's car and the shop wanted to charge me additional to have them filled with nitrogen instead of air. I went with air. You know...the same way I have for the last I dunno'...27 fucking years, ya' know?

If you drive a racecar...on a track...nitrogen is an excellent choice. But not on the minivan...

Are people really opting for this on their street cars? Thoughts?

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: N3 ()
Date: July 23, 2012 05:03PM

Yes. And, yes, it's kinda silly.

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: NO!! ()
Date: July 23, 2012 05:23PM

OH GOD DONT CHANGE THINGS!

The way we did things 27 years ago must still be the best way!!!!

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Green Caps ()
Date: July 23, 2012 05:30PM

NO!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OH GOD DONT CHANGE THINGS!
>
> The way we did things 27 years ago must still be
> the best way!!!!


Or maybe you just learn not to be a sucker for stuff like this over the years.

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: July 23, 2012 05:49PM

The main arguments I've heard in favor of it are that 1) nitrogen is probably more stable that regular air, 2) it doesn't have moisture in it where normal air does have small amounts of water vapor, and 3) nitrogen is supposedly less likely to migrate through tires than oxygen. Now here are the counterarguments: a) Did we really have that many tire problems from water vapor, oxygen and other substances found in atmosphere? b) Normal air is already roughly 80% nitrogen. c) If your dealer doesn't handle it right you are going to end up with a certain amount of non-nitrogen in your tires anyways. Proper nitrogen inflation involves filling and purging the tires in order to reduce non-nitrogen to a minimum, and on a humid day I would wonder how well even this process is at purging moisture. d) If you have to add air you are probably going to be putting in 'atmosphere' so you will be diluting the nitrogen over time.

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: friskydingo ()
Date: July 23, 2012 05:57PM

Considering that plain old, regular, air that we breath is 76% nitrogen, Id say its a rip off.

 

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Vexxxed ()
Date: July 23, 2012 05:58PM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The main arguments I've heard in favor of it are
> that 1) nitrogen is probably more stable that
> regular air, 2) it doesn't have moisture in it
> where normal air does have small amounts of water
> vapor, and 3) nitrogen is supposedly less likely
> to migrate through tires than oxygen. Now here
> are the counterarguments: a) Did we really have
> that many tire problems from water vapor, oxygen
> and other substances found in atmosphere? b)
> Normal air is already roughly 80% nitrogen. c) If
> your dealer doesn't handle it right you are going
> to end up with a certain amount of non-nitrogen in
> your tires anyways. Proper nitrogen inflation
> involves filling and purging the tires in order to
> reduce non-nitrogen to a minimum, and on a humid
> day I would wonder how well even this process is
> at purging moisture. d) If you have to add air
> you are probably going to be putting in
> 'atmosphere' so you will be diluting the nitrogen
> over time.


One thing that has changed over the years does make nitrogen favorable for inflating tires.

Aluminum rims. Water plus heat on aluminum equals corrosion. Corrosion where the tire bead meets the rim will make the aluminum expand. When it expands, "air" escapes. Having already been through this with my wife's car, Goodyear outlets charge $30 per wheel to sand down and seal a corroded rim bead.

More and more new cars are coming from the factory with nitrogen already in the tires.

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Tiredz ()
Date: July 23, 2012 06:00PM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The main arguments I've heard in favor of it are
> that 1) nitrogen is probably more stable that
> regular air, 2) it doesn't have moisture in it
> where normal air does have small amounts of water
> vapor, and 3) nitrogen is supposedly less likely
> to migrate through tires than oxygen. Now here
> are the counterarguments: a) Did we really have
> that many tire problems from water vapor, oxygen
> and other substances found in atmosphere? b)
> Normal air is already roughly 80% nitrogen. c) If
> your dealer doesn't handle it right you are going
> to end up with a certain amount of non-nitrogen in
> your tires anyways. Proper nitrogen inflation
> involves filling and purging the tires in order to
> reduce non-nitrogen to a minimum, and on a humid
> day I would wonder how well even this process is
> at purging moisture. d) If you have to add air
> you are probably going to be putting in
> 'atmosphere' so you will be diluting the nitrogen
> over time.


The idea isn't so much to use nitrogen per se; rather, it's to minimize or eliminate O2. There are applications where it's possible to get a sealed environment were it really is a benefit (e.g., in binoculars, scopes, and other optics so they don't fog) or where you have some specific potential reaction that you're attempting to avoid with O2 or other oxidizers. But a tire on a passenger car isn't really that place.

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Naaaa ()
Date: July 23, 2012 06:59PM

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> One thing that has changed over the years does
> make nitrogen favorable for inflating tires.
>
> Aluminum rims. Water plus heat on aluminum equals
> corrosion. Corrosion where the tire bead meets
> the rim will make the aluminum expand. When it
> expands, "air" escapes. Having already been
> through this with my wife's car, Goodyear outlets
> charge $30 per wheel to sand down and seal a
> corroded rim bead.
>
> More and more new cars are coming from the factory
> with nitrogen already in the tires.


There were plenty of aluminum wheels around in 1980s and as a kid working in a tire shop at the time I changed plenty of them. Never recall any issues with maintaining a bead or unusual corrosion. If anything much less so versus old steel wheels which you'd expect given that they'd react in the same way much faster and to a greater extent. Further evidenced by the fact that there are literally millions of cars with aluminum wheels running around these days which are not using nitrogen and which do not have such a problem.

If you're having/had some issue like that then it's likely that there's something else going on and more a coincidence that they just happened to have put nitrogen whenever they fixed that or something specific to your wheels.

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Warhawk ()
Date: July 23, 2012 07:13PM

Pfffttt...everyone knows that nitrogen in your tires will make your sportscar or SUV perform better in the snow.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Vexxxed ()
Date: July 23, 2012 07:59PM

Naaaa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There were plenty of aluminum wheels around in
> 1980s and as a kid working in a tire shop at the
> time I changed plenty of them. Never recall any
> issues with maintaining a bead or unusual
> corrosion. If anything much less so versus old
> steel wheels which you'd expect given that they'd
> react in the same way much faster and to a greater
> extent. Further evidenced by the fact that there
> are literally millions of cars with aluminum
> wheels running around these days which are not
> using nitrogen and which do not have such a
> problem.
>
> If you're having/had some issue like that then
> it's likely that there's something else going on
> and more a coincidence that they just happened to
> have put nitrogen whenever they fixed that or
> something specific to your wheels.

The Goodyear dealership has a price hanging on the wall specific to the problem I had. I doubt they put it up there just for me. It's a Lincoln LS with factory wheels on it. It still doesn't have nitrogen in the tires.

Oh yeah, there's about a zillion websites out there that explain the exact same problem I had. Here's one.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair-questions/4302788

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Vexxxed ()
Date: July 23, 2012 08:01PM

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pfffttt...everyone knows that nitrogen in your
> tires will make your sportscar or SUV perform
> better in the snow.


I put helium in mine so I can laugh while I blast past those idiots doing 40 over the posted speed limit in my all wheel drive Audi.

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Stinky Beast ()
Date: July 23, 2012 08:02PM

NO!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OH GOD DONT CHANGE THINGS!
>
> The way we did things 27 years ago must still be
> the best way!!!!

{Shakes Mangy Fist} EVERYTHING WAS BETTER BEFORE!

So, the way we do things today must be the ONLY way, huh? Celebrate some diversity, pigfucker...

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Naaaa ()
Date: July 23, 2012 09:36PM

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Oh yeah, there's about a zillion websites out
> there that explain the exact same problem I had.
> Here's one.
>
>
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair
> -questions/4302788


No, there are a zillion web sites talking about using nitrogen in tires generally not about the 'exact same problem' that you had.

Actually, the more that I look at this the more that it appears to be a coordinated marketing campaign that's sponsored by the makers of the nitrogen fill systems and their marketing association(s) to sell the equipment into service centers as a profit center for the retailer. It's complete with the typical captive associations and "institutes" all of which reference one another and all of which trace back to the same groups selling the equipment. E.g.,

Who is the Get Nitrogen Institute?

The Get Nitrogen Institute is located in Denver, Colo., and is sponsored by:

• Parker Hannifin Corp.
• Branick Industries Inc.
• Champion — Gardner Denver Inc.
• Costco
• Myers Tire Supply Co.
• Tire Retread and Repair Information Bureau (TRIB)
• Tire Service Equipment Mfg. Co. Inc.
• Ingersoll Rand
• Haltec Corp.


Very similar to the "Top Tier" gas marketing campaign. Not to say that there aren't potentially some benefits but marginal at best and pretty much intended as nothing more than just something else to sell people.

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: NO!! ()
Date: July 23, 2012 09:37PM

Obviously if I'm fucking pigs, that's pretty diverse!
Stinky Beast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NO!! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OH GOD DONT CHANGE THINGS!
> >
> > The way we did things 27 years ago must still
> be
> > the best way!!!!
>
> {Shakes Mangy Fist} EVERYTHING WAS BETTER BEFORE!
>
> So, the way we do things today must be the ONLY
> way, huh? Celebrate some diversity, pigfucker...

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: Fact Checker ()
Date: July 23, 2012 10:44PM

NO!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obviously if I'm fucking pigs, that's pretty
> diverse!
> Stinky Beast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NO!! Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > OH GOD DONT CHANGE THINGS!
> > >
> > > The way we did things 27 years ago must
> still
> > be
> > > the best way!!!!
> >
> > {Shakes Mangy Fist} EVERYTHING WAS BETTER
> BEFORE!
> >
> > So, the way we do things today must be the ONLY
> > way, huh? Celebrate some diversity, pigfucker...

Nope...fail. If ALL you're fucking is pigs? Not so much diversity there...

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Re: Nitrogen in my car's tires? WTF?
Posted by: wheelman ()
Date: July 23, 2012 10:53PM

the Exxon station in Springfield used to put an oxide mixture in your tires FOR FREE if you asked them. byproduct of phosphorous, mixed with clean oxygen substance. low-heat pressure, gas turbine, and safe against rubber. tires would last 10,000 miles longer turning on that stuff.

sadly they stopped because of the EPA and higher regulations (you can thank Clinton for that one!)

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