$60 million in fines. Four years, no bowl bids. Vacate all wins going back to 1998. Ouch!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Anything short of the death penalty for 1-3 years is worthless. Let the meathead mentality of PSU live on forever.

I thought it would be more punishment, like NO football for 4 years or something.

too little Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anything short of the death penalty for 1-3 years
> is worthless. Let the meathead mentality of PSU
> live on forever.


This is pretty much a death penalty. They will have no decent recruits for four years. It will take them 10 years to be relevant again.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> too little Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anything short of the death penalty for 1-3
> years
> > is worthless. Let the meathead mentality of
> PSU
> > live on forever.
>
>
> This is pretty much a death penalty. They will
> have no decent recruits for four years. It will
> take them 10 years to be relevant again.


No, it is not pretty much a death penalty. Optically speaking this puts PSU's criminal behavior on par with students cheating, taking money, recruiting violations, etc. If it is functioning as "pretty much a death penalty" then why not give the actual death penalty? Oh yeah, because it isn't "pretty much a death penalty." It isn't a slap on the wrist, but it falls well short of the punishment they deserve. The Big 10 should step in and send a message to the NCAA and the nation and kick them out of the conference.

Whew, all this talk about the "death penalty" made me worry that they might do something like put Daniel Snyder in charge of the team. Looks like they got a slap on the wrist here.

It might be a boon for the ACC. They've already lost one or two commits to UNC. Penn State recruits heavily in the mid-Atlantic. Maryland, UVA, VT, and UNC might be able to pick up some top recruits.

NCAA President Mark Emmert made the announcement Monday morning that the program would be hit with a four-year postseason ban and a $60 million fine.

In addition, the school will be forced to cut 10 scholarships for this season and 20 scholarships for the following four years.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/story/2012-07-23/ncaa-penn-state-punishment-sanctions/56427630/1

They got off light in the scholarship reduction.

Lester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They've already lost one or two commits to UNC.

So these kids passed on PSU to go to UNC where sanctions were just handed down on them a couple of months ago? Friggin geniuses there....

Maybe Maryland will be able to pick of some of these recruits and be relevant again.

Ralph Pootawn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe Maryland will be able to pick of some of
> these recruits and be relevant again.


Until Randy Edsall pisses them off and they quit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Also, Pitt joins a year early in 2013.

PSU often poaches recruits from Maryland's backyard.

I heard there's also something about limits on other schools scholarship transfers from Penn State.

How about a different look at the way NCAA penalizes "programs"?

Is it possible that the way the NCAA penalizes programs now, they do more to penalize past and future players that may have had little, or most likely, nothing to do with the violations? Vacating past victories? Sure, that affects JoePa, but does it also a much greater affect on 100's of past players who were doing what they should have been doing, and knew nothing about the issues? Does cutting future scholarships hurts both current players and high school kids who wanted to go to Penn State? And then, how does that help? Do those players help prevent something like this in the future? How?

The way the NFL penalized the Saints, is that more in line with justice? They went after the coaches who knew (or should have known) and the players directly involved.

Too often, in college, it seems coaches who are involved in some sort of scandal just up and leave, get another high paying job, while the previous and future players pay.

What about bigger financial penalties, and mandated future payments to charities, etc? Why not let the kids keep playing, let the program keep making money (which by the way supports other sports) and have some of that future revenue go to a related charity?

Is the argument that this is a way to get control of a program that has too much power, etc., isn't that reactive? If that is what this is all about, that is, getting "control of a program", shouldn't the NCAA start now, at many programs? Surely, there are other programs where the coach and athletic departments yields incredible power over an administration and community in a similar fashion, right?

Why wait until after the fact, and think it is only at Penn State that something like this could happen?

Why think it just college football or sports where something like this could happen?

another way Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about a different look at the way NCAA
> penalizes "programs"?
>
> Is it possible that the way the NCAA penalizes
> programs now, they do more to penalize past and
> future players that may have had little, or most
> likely, nothing to do with the violations?
> Vacating past victories? Sure, that affects JoePa,
> but does it also a much greater affect on 100's of
> past players who were doing what they should have
> been doing, and knew nothing about the issues?
> Does cutting future scholarships hurts both
> current players and high school kids who wanted to
> go to Penn State? And then, how does that help? Do
> those players help prevent something like this in
> the future? How?
>
> The way the NFL penalized the Saints, is that more
> in line with justice? They went after the coaches
> who knew (or should have known) and the players
> directly involved.
>
> Too often, in college, it seems coaches who are
> involved in some sort of scandal just up and
> leave, get another high paying job, while the
> previous and future players pay.
>
> What about bigger financial penalties, and
> mandated future payments to charities, etc? Why
> not let the kids keep playing, let the program
> keep making money (which by the way supports other
> sports) and have some of that future revenue go to
> a related charity?
>
> Is the argument that this is a way to get control
> of a program that has too much power, etc., isn't
> that reactive? If that is what this is all about,
> that is, getting "control of a program", shouldn't
> the NCAA start now, at many programs? Surely,
> there are other programs where the coach and
> athletic departments yields incredible power over
> an administration and community in a similar
> fashion, right?
>
> Why wait until after the fact, and think it is
> only at Penn State that something like this could
> happen?
>
> Why think it just college football or sports where
> something like this could happen?


You must be a kid toucher. Only a kid toucher would have symapthy for the program.

ewwww Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> another way Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How about a different look at the way NCAA
> > penalizes "programs"?
> >
> > Is it possible that the way the NCAA penalizes
> > programs now, they do more to penalize past and
> > future players that may have had little, or
> most
> > likely, nothing to do with the violations?
> > Vacating past victories? Sure, that affects
> JoePa,
> > but does it also a much greater affect on 100's
> of
> > past players who were doing what they should
> have
> > been doing, and knew nothing about the issues?
> > Does cutting future scholarships hurts both
> > current players and high school kids who wanted
> to
> > go to Penn State? And then, how does that help?
> Do
> > those players help prevent something like this
> in
> > the future? How?
> >
> > The way the NFL penalized the Saints, is that
> more
> > in line with justice? They went after the
> coaches
> > who knew (or should have known) and the players
> > directly involved.
> >
> > Too often, in college, it seems coaches who are
> > involved in some sort of scandal just up and
> > leave, get another high paying job, while the
> > previous and future players pay.
> >
> > What about bigger financial penalties, and
> > mandated future payments to charities, etc? Why
> > not let the kids keep playing, let the program
> > keep making money (which by the way supports
> other
> > sports) and have some of that future revenue go
> to
> > a related charity?
> >
> > Is the argument that this is a way to get
> control
> > of a program that has too much power, etc.,
> isn't
> > that reactive? If that is what this is all
> about,
> > that is, getting "control of a program",
> shouldn't
> > the NCAA start now, at many programs? Surely,
> > there are other programs where the coach and
> > athletic departments yields incredible power
> over
> > an administration and community in a similar
> > fashion, right?
> >
> > Why wait until after the fact, and think it is
> > only at Penn State that something like this
> could
> > happen?
> >
> > Why think it just college football or sports
> where
> > something like this could happen?
>
>
> You must be a kid toucher. Only a kid toucher
> would have symapthy for the program.


You must be an idiot.

Nowhere in the line of questioning was sympathy expressed for anybody or anything.

To the contrary, a more effective line of punsihment was offered for consideration.

doh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You must be an idiot.
>
> Nowhere in the line of questioning was sympathy
> expressed for anybody or anything.
>
> To the contrary, a more effective line of
> punsihment was offered for consideration.


If my more effective you mean a lesser punishment then yes, you'd be correct. Moron.

mo mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You must be an idiot.
> >
> > Nowhere in the line of questioning was sympathy
> > expressed for anybody or anything.
> >
> > To the contrary, a more effective line of
> > punsihment was offered for consideration.
>
>
> If my more effective you mean a lesser punishment
> then yes, you'd be correct. Moron.


No, I don't think he means "my more effective".

mo mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You must be an idiot.
> >
> > Nowhere in the line of questioning was sympathy
> > expressed for anybody or anything.
> >
> > To the contrary, a more effective line of
> > punsihment was offered for consideration.
>
>
> If my more effective you mean a lesser punishment
> then yes, you'd be correct. Moron.


So, you think that 1) vacating the victories of a dead man 2) vacating victories of 100's of players who had nothing to do with this tragedy, and probably won't do anything in the future about child sex abuse and 3) cutting scholarships of high school kids who might have gone to Penn State (some of whom are still in the 9th and 10th grade) is more effective than heavily penalizing future cash flows (and using those moneys for charity programs)?

Sure, by doing so, Penn State will probably make less money, but that money simply goes away...pooof...it won't go towards charity.

Why not punish those directly involved, and take advantage of future cash flows and put that money to good use?

BOTTOMLINE OF THE $60 MILLION FINE IS.........

HIGHER COSTS ACROSS THE BOARD AT PSU(i.e. tuition, books, food, apparel, etc etc)

WAY TO FUCK IT UP FOR PSU SANDUSKY AND THE OTHER PEOPLE!!!!

Hardly a hammer. 60 million they can make up in one year of sales and products. They needed a suspension. That is what other teams have gotten for recruting violations. Typical NCAA takes it easy on a favorite.
Then those assholes in the town whinning how much money they will lose in business if PS is suspended. Forget all about the child molesting in favor of the dollars.

Here is the NCAA for you. Put a Native American on your uniform and you are banned from championship play. Rape young boys and cover it up all the way to the top and lose four bowl games.

Classy.

At least they decided to put the nail in JoePa's legacy by taking away 1/4 of his wins. He let kids get fucked in the ass and now he's getting fucked.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

miami joe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hardly a hammer. 60 million they can make up in
> one year of sales and products. They needed a
> suspension. That is what other teams have gotten
> for recruting violations. Typical NCAA takes it
> easy on a favorite.
> Then those assholes in the town whinning how much
> money they will lose in business if PS is
> suspended. Forget all about the child molesting in
> favor of the dollars.


Suspensions hurt past and future players (including those on other PS teams that rely on football revenue to fund their sports), while usually not doing much to the real source of the problems.

In this case, JoePa is dead, so he ain't getting hurt, Sandusky is in jail and facing the legal system, so if he gives a dam that PS is losing those victories he is focused on the wrong thing.

The one thing right about this is the fine.

Keep the scholarships, keep the victories, increase the fine. Maybe $60 million to start, and then $15 million a year for the next 5 years.

Now, you've got $135 million to go to charity.

And no, I am not a Penn State fan. Just think there are better ways to "punish" college football programs than the way they do it now, ways that actually punish the bad guys, hit the colleges where it counts ($$$$) and get some money out of it that can go to some good.

How is going to help things to say to all the members of the 2005 Penn State football team that now you are 0-12? How does it help things to say to some freshman in high school, don't think about going to Penn State in 4 years, because they aren't going to have enough scholarships?

You scare University Admins when you say, if your teams f up, you're going to pay.

"Emmert told Y! Sports that a multi-year suspension of the football program was "vigorously discussed" with members of the Division I Board of Directors. Ultimately, Penn State's willingness to take its medicine ? commissioning, accepting and making public the damaging Freeh Commission report, and accepting massive NCAA penalties without due process ? helped save the school from a complete shutdown of football for a season or longer, Emmert said.

"The resolve demonstrated by Penn State to get past this was very important in people's minds," he said."

Their penalty is only a slight step up from what USC got for Reggie Bush which makes it a joke.

If not the death penalty should have been no scholarships for 5 years, any money that the football team makes has to be given directly to other sports or charity and not be allowed to be used to improve the program, no bowls/tv/sponsorships, no players able to win any awards during that time, and the only way they are allowed to stay active is if paternos name is completely removed from the campus. No more paterno library.

And of course penn state jumped at the chance to accept what they were given because they knew they were getting off easy

my my my my Wrote:

> And no, I am not a Penn State fan. Just think
> there are better ways to "punish" college football
> programs than the way they do it now, ways that
> actually punish the bad guys, hit the colleges
> where it counts ($$$$) and get some money out of
> it that can go to some good.
>
> How is going to help things to say to all the
> members of the 2005 Penn State football team that
> now you are 0-12? How does it help things to say
> to some freshman in high school, don't think about
> going to Penn State in 4 years, because they
> aren't going to have enough scholarships?
>
> You scare University Admins when you say, if your
> teams f up, you're going to pay.


The point isnt the penalty on the current players. They are all free to leave. If you can play at PSU you can play other places. This is the only case im in favor of things like this. Generally I agree there gone who cares. But the SCHOOL covered up kids being molested.

You have to send a strong clear message that if you even consider covering something like this up to protect your sports program the hammer will be brought down so hard no one will ever consider a cover up again. Frankly this didnt go far enough

I went to a Big 10 school and sent an email to the AD to boot PSU out of the conference. Told quite a few other alumni to do the same. If you went to a Big 10 school think about doing the same thing.

Should have been more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my my my my Wrote:
>
> > And no, I am not a Penn State fan. Just think
> > there are better ways to "punish" college
> football
> > programs than the way they do it now, ways that
> > actually punish the bad guys, hit the colleges
> > where it counts ($$$$) and get some money out
> of
> > it that can go to some good.
> >
> > How is going to help things to say to all the
> > members of the 2005 Penn State football team
> that
> > now you are 0-12? How does it help things to
> say
> > to some freshman in high school, don't think
> about
> > going to Penn State in 4 years, because they
> > aren't going to have enough scholarships?
> >
> > You scare University Admins when you say, if
> your
> > teams f up, you're going to pay.
>
>
> The point isnt the penalty on the current players.
> They are all free to leave. If you can play at
> PSU you can play other places. This is the only
> case im in favor of things like this. Generally I
> agree there gone who cares. But the SCHOOL
> covered up kids being molested.
>
> You have to send a strong clear message that if
> you even consider covering something like this up
> to protect your sports program the hammer will be
> brought down so hard no one will ever consider a
> cover up again. Frankly this didnt go far enough


I agree with you, and that is my point. Send a message to the school...not the players. The players didn't do this, and will most likely never be in a position to "fix" this...go after the school, the administrators who knew (even those who should have known) and $$$$.

Players didn't do anything, and aren't in a position to make changes. They can't pay a fine. Why go after them?

you got it Wrote:

> I agree with you, and that is my point. Send a
> message to the school...not the players. The
> players didn't do this, and will most likely never
> be in a position to "fix" this...go after the
> school, the administrators who knew (even those
> who should have known) and $$$$.
>
> Players didn't do anything, and aren't in a
> position to make changes. They can't pay a fine.
> Why go after them?


In this case because you have to to send the message to the school, the administrators and all the other programs. This all happened because of their beloved program, punishing it is the best way to make it hurt. 60 mil is nothing to psu their boosters could pay that off tomorrow if they really wanted too.

If the team gets off free and clear then those people who think the most important thing is the team and protecting the team this will happen again where they would rather take the blame then see their beloved team take a hit. The players can leave free and clear so its not that bad for them.

In the case of USC I couldnt agree more that was stupid. But this was so incredibly bad the team HAS to take a hit too. Instead of people being upset with the punishment they should be pissed at the people who covered it up and allowed it to happen. It also didnt help 2 days after chargers were filed they had sandusky as an honored guest at the game, then paterno says hell finish out the season, and the students basically had a pro child molestation rally.

If all you hit them with is a fine theyd still have their football. Plus a fine actually hurts students more as it takes away money from the actual school and research that can help people as opposed to forcing the football team to transfer if they want to

I still say a suspension is in order. A message needs to be sent to any other colleges what can happen. Penn State is full of arrogant assholes whining about how this will hurt innocent players. Well ok how about innocent little boys or dont they matter.
Absent the fine,which they will easily make up thanks to fat old white guy alumni, Penn St got a slap on the wrist. Penn St and the hanger on retards who populate the campus and town are a big bunch of dickwads who put football ahead of everything else in life and from what I have seen will continue to do so.
They learned nothing.

Of course, any coach who claims to have the most wins will have a giant asterisk next to his name. You can doctor the records, but JoePa still won those games, despite his moral failings.

As for PSU, the school is done. That 60 million won't be made up by selling merch or football stuff, and the program will never live this down. Now would be a good time for the school to focus on academics, like they should've anyway.

Why force the current football team to transfer? What did they do? What will they be able to do in the future to make sure Penn State runs a clean program?

Why take away the past players victories? What did they do? What will they be able to do in the future to make sure Penn State runs a clean program?

Why cut scholarships? What did a tenth grader that wants to go to Penn State do? What will a kid, who doesn't get a scholarship to Penn State, be able to do to make sure Penn State runs a clean program in the future?

Hit the school hard where it counts, make 'em pay a huge fine, and use that money for some good. The prospect of fines will make any administrator, board member, etc current and future, think real hard about looking the other way.

They are the ones responsible, not the players. They are the ones that will shape and enforce future policies, not the players.

you got it wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why force the current football team to transfer?
> What did they do? What will they be able to do in
> the future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> program?
>
> Why take away the past players victories? What did
> they do? What will they be able to do in the
> future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> program?
>
> Why cut scholarships? What did a tenth grader that
> wants to go to Penn State do? What will a kid, who
> doesn't get a scholarship to Penn State, be able
> to do to make sure Penn State runs a clean program
> in the future?
>
> Hit the school hard where it counts, make 'em pay
> a huge fine, and use that money for some good. The
> prospect of fines will make any administrator,
> board member, etc current and future, think real
> hard about looking the other way.
>
> They are the ones responsible, not the players.
> They are the ones that will shape and enforce
> future policies, not the players.


This is stupid. It is like saying don't punish teh poor line employees for teh CEOs mistakes when the company goes belly up. When the shit hits the fan, everyone has to pay the price - even the innocent.

miami joe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still say a suspension is in order. A message
> needs to be sent to any other colleges what can
> happen. Penn State is full of arrogant assholes
> whining about how this will hurt innocent players.
> Well ok how about innocent little boys or dont
> they matter.
> Absent the fine,which they will easily make up
> thanks to fat old white guy alumni, Penn St got a
> slap on the wrist. Penn St and the hanger on
> retards who populate the campus and town are a big
> bunch of dickwads who put football ahead of
> everything else in life and from what I have seen
> will continue to do so.
> They learned nothing.


If you think Penn State is the only place like this in the country, you ain't been around much.

If you think college football is the only institution in America where something like this can happen, you ain't been around much.

Yep, send a message. Money hurts. Players from a team ten years ago ain't gonna be able to do dick about this, and had nothing to do with it in the first place. Bigger fine. Who gives a fart about vacating wins? JoePa is dead.

you got it wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why force the current football team to transfer?
> What did they do? What will they be able to do in
> the future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> program?
>
> Why take away the past players victories? What did
> they do? What will they be able to do in the
> future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> program?
>
> Why cut scholarships? What did a tenth grader that
> wants to go to Penn State do? What will a kid, who
> doesn't get a scholarship to Penn State, be able
> to do to make sure Penn State runs a clean program
> in the future?
>
> Hit the school hard where it counts, make 'em pay
> a huge fine, and use that money for some good. The
> prospect of fines will make any administrator,
> board member, etc current and future, think real
> hard about looking the other way.
>
> They are the ones responsible, not the players.
> They are the ones that will shape and enforce
> future policies, not the players.


How hard is to comprehend that football is the most important thing to them. They covered up kids being raped to protect the program. If you dont punish the program they dont care.

How hard is it to also understand that youre complaining about punishing 80 kids, of which all incoming freshman knew this was coming and chose to go anyway, but your solution punishes the entire school/research projects/and anyone that would benefit from their research.

Give me 1 reason why everyone else should be punished and legitimate school work and research (the point of college in the first place) should be thrown under the bus to say you didnt hurt the precious football program that caused all this in the first place?

there should be an organized effort to vandalize the grave of Joe Paterno on a regular basis

erm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you got it wrong Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why force the current football team to
> transfer?
> > What did they do? What will they be able to do
> in
> > the future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> > program?
> >
> > Why take away the past players victories? What
> did
> > they do? What will they be able to do in the
> > future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> > program?
> >
> > Why cut scholarships? What did a tenth grader
> that
> > wants to go to Penn State do? What will a kid,
> who
> > doesn't get a scholarship to Penn State, be
> able
> > to do to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> program
> > in the future?
> >
> > Hit the school hard where it counts, make 'em
> pay
> > a huge fine, and use that money for some good.
> The
> > prospect of fines will make any administrator,
> > board member, etc current and future, think
> real
> > hard about looking the other way.
> >
> > They are the ones responsible, not the players.
> > They are the ones that will shape and enforce
> > future policies, not the players.
>
>
> This is stupid. It is like saying don't punish
> teh poor line employees for teh CEOs mistakes when
> the company goes belly up. When the shit hits the
> fan, everyone has to pay the price - even the
> innocent.


So, you're saying line employees SHOULD get punished, as well, when a CEO makes mistakes? Why would you do that? Should these innocent "line employees" go to jail as well? Do they also have to pay fines?

No, innocent line employees don't get punished. Sure, they suffer from collateral damage, and that is unfortunate. But no, innocents don't get punished directly.

Should have been more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you got it wrong Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why force the current football team to
> transfer?
> > What did they do? What will they be able to do
> in
> > the future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> > program?
> >
> > Why take away the past players victories? What
> did
> > they do? What will they be able to do in the
> > future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> > program?
> >
> > Why cut scholarships? What did a tenth grader
> that
> > wants to go to Penn State do? What will a kid,
> who
> > doesn't get a scholarship to Penn State, be
> able
> > to do to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> program
> > in the future?
> >
> > Hit the school hard where it counts, make 'em
> pay
> > a huge fine, and use that money for some good.
> The
> > prospect of fines will make any administrator,
> > board member, etc current and future, think
> real
> > hard about looking the other way.
> >
> > They are the ones responsible, not the players.
> > They are the ones that will shape and enforce
> > future policies, not the players.
>
>
> How hard is to comprehend that football is the
> most important thing to them. They covered up
> kids being raped to protect the program. If you
> dont punish the program they dont care.
>
> How hard is it to also understand that youre
> complaining about punishing 80 kids, of which all
> incoming freshman knew this was coming and chose
> to go anyway, but your solution punishes the
> entire school/research projects/and anyone that
> would benefit from their research.
>
> Give me 1 reason why everyone else should be
> punished and legitimate school work and research
> (the point of college in the first place) should
> be thrown under the bus to say you didnt hurt the
> precious football program that caused all this in
> the first place?


The money comes from the athletic budget. I don't know why I need to give you any reason "everyone else" should be punished, as that is not a position I've taken. The administrators who knew, or should have known, or should know in the future, should be made very aware that if their oversight is lacking, then a huge source of revenue for them will be altered significantly.

Just as I don't advocate the innocent football players from being punished, I don't advocate "everyone else" being punished, either.

Screw thos PS people. Still enough of the die hards around if they dug old Joe up they would give him a hummer on nationwide tv.

read Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The money comes from the athletic budget. I don't
> know why I need to give you any reason "everyone
> else" should be punished, as that is not a
> position I've taken. The administrators who knew,
> or should have known, or should know in the
> future, should be made very aware that if their
> oversight is lacking, then a huge source of
> revenue for them will be altered significantly.
>
> Just as I don't advocate the innocent football
> players from being punished, I don't advocate
> "everyone else" being punished, either.


No you have takem the position of everyone but the program should be punished cus thats where the money for a fine comes from.

You fine then 150 mil from the athletic department, congratulations you just ended all sports at psu so you could say you didnt punish the program responsible.

You could kill the football program and itll start back up again when allowed. All the money losing sports track and field, any womens sports, wrestling ect all would be cut to pay the fine and never brought back.

TAKING AWAY REVENUE FROM A SCHOOL IN A FINE TAKES IT AWAY FROM STUDENTS AND RESEARCH. This isnt rocket science. You charge them a fine the money doesnt magically appear to be paid. Budgets would be slashed everywhere to come up with the fine you want.

You literally are arguing that they shouldnt punish the players not involved by punishing everyone else instead.

No sports for a few years, cry me a river. PSU might have to resort to being a learning institution instead.

So, don't take money from the athletic department, because that might kill the revenue for STUDENTS AND RESEARCH, but, damage the football program so that it might not produce revenue for...STUDENTS AND RESEARCH?

What's it gonna be? What's your point?

And, no, I am not literally arguing they "should not punish the players not involved by punishing everyone else instead".

Not even close. I guess you missed my points about the fine coming from the athletic budget, and, limiting punishments to administrators that knew or should have known.

Sorry you missed those. Maybe I should have used ALL CAPS.

screw joe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No sports for a few years, cry me a river. PSU
> might have to resort to being a learning
> institution instead.


Hell, do away with all sports. But then you'll have people crying rivers, in all caps, about money for STUDENTS AND RESEARCH.

Fact is, football makes a load of money. You want to do away with that?

OK. Doesn't sound very smart to me, but maybe you've thought that out and it makes sense.

Or, let 'em make money, fine the hell out 'em, and use that money for other purposes.

That seems to make a little more sense to me than re-writing record books, and cutting scholarships. As if that will have a lasting positive impact.

too little Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anything short of the death penalty for 1-3 years
> is worthless. Let the meathead mentality of PSU
> live on forever.


QFT. They got off light. Fucking pederasts.

Need more cowbell and more all caps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, don't take money from the athletic department,
> because that might kill the revenue for STUDENTS
> AND RESEARCH, but, damage the football program so
> that it might not produce revenue for...STUDENTS
> AND RESEARCH?


Football produces money for athletics and not much else. Most of their money goes right back into the football program, how do you think the stadium was built, or their separate facilities for everything, or the jumbotron.

Youre the poster child for everything that was wrong at that school. Protect football at all costs.

The fact PSU people are so pissed about it shows its the perfect punishment. You want to make sure itll never happen again hit them where it hurts most.

The most comments I read about this everywhere the more PSU looks like a cult than a collage

slow down there Wrote:

> That seems to make a little more sense to me than
> re-writing record books, and cutting scholarships.
> As if that will have a lasting positive impact.


Nothing youve been saying has made any sense to anyone but PSU alums.

You clearly dont understand how funding or money works.

Should have been more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Need more cowbell and more all caps Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So, don't take money from the athletic
> department,
> > because that might kill the revenue for
> STUDENTS
> > AND RESEARCH, but, damage the football program
> so
> > that it might not produce revenue
> for...STUDENTS
> > AND RESEARCH?
>
>
> Football produces money for athletics and not much
> else. Most of their money goes right back into
> the football program, how do you think the stadium
> was built, or their separate facilities for
> everything, or the jumbotron.
>
> Youre the poster child for everything that was
> wrong at that school. Protect football at all
> costs.
>
> The fact PSU people are so pissed about it shows
> its the perfect punishment. You want to make sure
> itll never happen again hit them where it hurts
> most.
>
> The most comments I read about this everywhere the
> more PSU looks like a cult than a collage


Nope. Not trying to protect the program. Don't give a fart about said program.

Wherever the money from the football program goes is not the point. However, if you want to hurt the program, make 'em pay...money.

Vacating past wins, or cutting scholarships, also punishes greatly those who not only had nothing to do with the past, but will have little ability to shape the future relative to this type of thing.

That does really help the victims. Money, on the other hand, might.

I have merely been advocating a more effective punishment, one that actually punishes those responsible as opposed to those not responsible, one that will have a greater lasting impact, and one that might actually provide $$$ for charities and programs in the future.

Pretty simple. And let me say again, couldn't give a fart about the program. Just interested in a better punishment.

Hell, if you all are interested in dropping the bomb, as it seems you might be, why aren't you advocating shutting the freakin school down? After all, it appears that more than just the football program was involved. And what about those 90,000 fans? Many of them were students-punish those suckers, as well. What about those pro JoePa rallies...why don't you want to teach them a lesson? Like, if you were at one of those rallies, we're gonna vacate your previous 2 semesters of coursework and teach you sycophants a lesson.

Doesn't make much sense to me, but, that is where you folks are headed.

Should have been more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> slow down there Wrote:
>
> > That seems to make a little more sense to me
> than
> > re-writing record books, and cutting
> scholarships.
> > As if that will have a lasting positive impact.
>
>
> Nothing youve been saying has made any sense to
> anyone but PSU alums.
>
> You clearly dont understand how funding or money
> works.


As for your second notion, oh, no my dear friend. That is not true. I have been involved in university athletic fund raising for nearly 20 years.

I predict heavy levels of alcoholism in Happy Valley these next few years.

496 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I predict heavy levels of alcoholism in Happy
> Valley these next few years.

So, no change then?

don't get your line of reasoning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> erm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > you got it wrong Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Why force the current football team to
> > transfer?
> > > What did they do? What will they be able to
> do
> > in
> > > the future to make sure Penn State runs a
> clean
> > > program?
> > >
> > > Why take away the past players victories?
> What
> > did
> > > they do? What will they be able to do in the
> > > future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> > > program?
> > >
> > > Why cut scholarships? What did a tenth grader
> > that
> > > wants to go to Penn State do? What will a
> kid,
> > who
> > > doesn't get a scholarship to Penn State, be
> > able
> > > to do to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> > program
> > > in the future?
> > >
> > > Hit the school hard where it counts, make 'em
> > pay
> > > a huge fine, and use that money for some
> good.
> > The
> > > prospect of fines will make any
> administrator,
> > > board member, etc current and future, think
> > real
> > > hard about looking the other way.
> > >
> > > They are the ones responsible, not the
> players.
> > > They are the ones that will shape and enforce
> > > future policies, not the players.
> >
> >
> > This is stupid. It is like saying don't punish
> > teh poor line employees for teh CEOs mistakes
> when
> > the company goes belly up. When the shit hits
> the
> > fan, everyone has to pay the price - even the
> > innocent.
>
>
> So, you're saying line employees SHOULD get
> punished, as well, when a CEO makes mistakes? Why
> would you do that? Should these innocent "line
> employees" go to jail as well? Do they also have
> to pay fines?
>
> No, innocent line employees don't get punished.
> Sure, they suffer from collateral damage, and that
> is unfortunate. But no, innocents don't get
> punished directly.


They lose their job. Here, players are losing scholarships. Same diff. Collateral damage is the precise way to phrase this. Happens all the time.

tomahawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 496 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I predict heavy levels of alcoholism in Happy
> > Valley these next few years.
>
> So, no change then?


+1

I've been to Happy Valley. You have football, drinking and farm animals. A deadly combination.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

erm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> don't get your line of reasoning Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > erm Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > you got it wrong Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Why force the current football team to
> > > transfer?
> > > > What did they do? What will they be able to
> > do
> > > in
> > > > the future to make sure Penn State runs a
> > clean
> > > > program?
> > > >
> > > > Why take away the past players victories?
> > What
> > > did
> > > > they do? What will they be able to do in
> the
> > > > future to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> > > > program?
> > > >
> > > > Why cut scholarships? What did a tenth
> grader
> > > that
> > > > wants to go to Penn State do? What will a
> > kid,
> > > who
> > > > doesn't get a scholarship to Penn State, be
> > > able
> > > > to do to make sure Penn State runs a clean
> > > program
> > > > in the future?
> > > >
> > > > Hit the school hard where it counts, make
> 'em
> > > pay
> > > > a huge fine, and use that money for some
> > good.
> > > The
> > > > prospect of fines will make any
> > administrator,
> > > > board member, etc current and future, think
> > > real
> > > > hard about looking the other way.
> > > >
> > > > They are the ones responsible, not the
> > players.
> > > > They are the ones that will shape and
> enforce
> > > > future policies, not the players.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is stupid. It is like saying don't
> punish
> > > teh poor line employees for teh CEOs mistakes
> > when
> > > the company goes belly up. When the shit
> hits
> > the
> > > fan, everyone has to pay the price - even the
> > > innocent.
> >
> >
> > So, you're saying line employees SHOULD get
> > punished, as well, when a CEO makes mistakes?
> Why
> > would you do that? Should these innocent "line
> > employees" go to jail as well? Do they also
> have
> > to pay fines?
> >
> > No, innocent line employees don't get punished.
> > Sure, they suffer from collateral damage, and
> that
> > is unfortunate. But no, innocents don't get
> > punished directly.
>
>
> They lose their job. Here, players are losing
> scholarships. Same diff. Collateral damage is
> the precise way to phrase this. Happens all the
> time.


Collateral damage is the unintended, but some times necessary result of some other action.

Vacating victories or taking scholarships away is not collateral damage. It is THE penalty. Of course, where it might get confusing, and possibly resemble collateral damage, is that it penalizes those who had nothing to do with the crime, and penalizes those who have little ability to fix the problem going forward.

An example of collateral damage in this instance might be, if in fact they gave the program the death penalty, all the hotel owners in Happy Valley (and other service providers) who have counted on that revenue in the fall, lose the revenue.

That is collateral damage.