Cornerstone Wrote:
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> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For those of you tired of the bickering between
> me
> > and Mr. Rat (I know I am)...here is an article
> I
> > found very interesting and some what
> balanced....
> >
> >
>
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19
>
> > 152.htm
> >
> > the part I found most interesting is...the
> > nation's prisons now hold about 150,000 armed
> > robbers, 125,000 murderers, and 100,000 sex
> > offenders—enough violent criminals to populate
> a
> > medium-sized city such as Cincinnati. Few would
> > dispute the need to remove these people from
> > society. The level of violent crime in the
> United
> > States, despite recent declines, still dwarfs
> that
> > in Western Europe. But the proportion of
> offenders
> > being sent to prison each year for violent
> crimes
> > has actually fallen during the prison boom. In
> > 1980 about half the people entering state
> prison
> > were violent offenders; in 1995 less than a
> third
> > had been convicted of a violent crime. The
> > enormous increase in America's inmate
> population
> > can be explained in large part by the sentences
> > given to people who have committed nonviolent
> > offenses. Crimes that in other countries would
> > usually lead to community service, fines, or
> drug
> > treatment—or would not be considered crimes at
> > all—in the United States now lead to a prison
> > term, by far the most expensive form of
> > punishment. "No matter what the question has
> been
> > in American criminal justice over the last
> > generation," says Franklin E. Zimring, the
> > director of the Earl Warren Legal Institute,
> > "prison has been the answer."
>
> I don't know why I try, bit I will regardless. In
> previous posts, Vince, you have interpreted my
> correction of your facts an attack on you. I am
> going to dispute your facts here as well, but
> please don't interpret it as an attack on you. I
> am sure you have thicker skin than that.
>
> 1) In your previous post, you indicate that 1 in
> 100 are in jail. That statistic only applies to
> adult males. So, in reality, if you take the
> population as a whole, 1 in 100 Americans are not
> in jail, just 1 in 100 of American adult males.
> Small distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.
>
>
> 2) I find the author's statement, "n 1980 about
> half the people entering state prison were violent
> offenders; in 1995 less than a third had been
> convicted of a violent crime" highly specious and
> dubious. He offers no source or citation to back
> up his claim. The DoJ Bureau of Justice
> Statistics (BJS)keeps track of the exact same
> information that your quoted author misrepresents.
> However, BJS comes up with a highly different
> number. According to BJS, 47% of people in state
> prison in 1995 were violent offenders and in 2004,
> 52% of state prisoners were convicted of violent
> offenses. I'd be interested to see the authors
> sources. Interestingly enough, there is actually
> a smaller percentage in prison for drug offenses
> in 2004 than there was in 1995.
>
> 3) A full 1/3 of the total number of prisoners
> cited in the author's report are serving time in a
> local jail. While yes, they are technically
> "behind bars," it is a far cry from state or
> federal prison. These could be people serving DUI
> time, awaiting deportation, being in the drunk
> tank for a night, serving a two week sentence on
> work release, etc. Local jails do not produce the
> hardened criminals. To include this number in the
> overall population is a bit disingenuous and
> misleading.
>
> 4) To answer Gravis' question about numbers: In
> 2004, 633,700 individuals were incarcerated in
> state prisons for violent offenses; 265,600
> individuals were incarcerated in state prisons for
> property offenses; 249,400 individuals were
> incarcerated in state prisons for drug offenses;
> and 88,900 individuals were incarcerated in state
> prisons for public order offenses.
all good points...thank you for a calm and thought out response. The topic deserves more investigation in my opinion. My opinion is that everytime we declare "war" on any anything...drugs...crime...Iraq...minorities end up taking a misproportionate hit on the chin. If I was a minority Id be even more suspicious and critical of all these well intentioned initiatives.