We may have reached our limits of knowledge.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203430404577096330121408786.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLETopStories



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2011 11:47AM by mcsmack.

mcsmack Wrote:
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> We may have reached our limits of knowledge.

I think that was the tagline from the last GOP debate.

TheMeeper Wrote:
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> mcsmack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We may have reached our limits of knowledge.
>
> I think that was the tagline from the last GOP
> debate.


Nice jab. Also could be the tagline for this forum. Talk about an abyss. Cary needs to clean house.0 dialogue, 0 intelligence, trolls running everywhere, long time serious posters fleeing.

It's starting to look like the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

TheMeeper Wrote:
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> mcsmack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We may have reached our limits of knowledge.
>
> I think that was the tagline from the last GOP
> debate.

Yeah!

I don't really get why anyone would think that we've "reached the limits of our knowledge" with the discovery of the Higgs boson. If anything, this discovery will help pave the way for us to use dual-positive, top-spin singularities to produce the off-set Tipler sinusoid described by John Titor.

Nerd alert!

Can someone please explain to me why any of this really matters?

What kind of technological advances will come from this?

Sometimes I think all these scientist, such as Stepthan Hawking have fucking clue what they are talking about. All they have done is colude amongst eachother, manage to convince the rest of us they are smarter then us and are just lying about black holes, inner space, worm holes and other dimensions. It the greatest inside joke ever.

mcsmack Wrote:
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> We may have reached our limits of knowledge.
>
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702034
> 30404577096330121408786.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLETopS
> tories

This doesn't say anything. It just says that they've done more experiments that may help them with further experiments to determine whether or not the Higgs boson even exists.

That's like saying scientists may have discovered information that will lead them to further experiments to determine if life exists on other planets.

Call me when the theory becomes a fact.

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Hay Zeus Wrote:
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> Nerd alert!
>
> Can someone please explain to me why any of this
> really matters?
>
> What kind of technological advances will come from
> this?
>
> Sometimes I think all these scientist, such as
> Stepthan Hawking have fucking clue what they are
> talking about. All they have done is colude
> amongst eachother, manage to convince the rest of
> us they are smarter then us and are just lying
> about black holes, inner space, worm holes and
> other dimensions. It the greatest inside joke
> ever.

I'm sure the same remarks were made about the works of Galileo and Newton.

TheMeeper Wrote:
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> I'm sure the same remarks were made about the
> works of Galileo and Newton.

Nobody can deny Newton's revolutionary breakthroughs in the field of Figology. They laughed at him, but WHO'S LAUGHING NOW?

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

TheMeeper Wrote:
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>
> I'm sure the same remarks were made about the
> works of Galileo and Newton.


Just because someone claims to be smart does not make it so.

mcsmack Wrote:
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> We may have reached our limits of knowledge.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.
Attachments:

I've asked the same question. At a cost of app $5 billion what will be our return? maybe we will find out how to manipulate sub atomic particles to some benefit? Who knows. It is possible that given enough power they may be able to create "mini" black holes.

Highly improbable they'll find the answer to the modern "dark matter" theory but if they wind up bending time and space we could be talking "time machine".

Hay Zeus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheMeeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I'm sure the same remarks were made about the
> > works of Galileo and Newton.
>
>
> Just because someone claims to be smart does not
> make it so.

And where have you ever seen Hawking come out and say "I'm smart"?

If you think these folks don't have a clue, proven them wrong. That's the way science works.

mcsmack Wrote:
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>
> maybe we will find out how to manipulate sub atomic particles to
> some benefit? Who knows.

Quantum computing will be an evolutionary step for humanity.

TheMeeper Wrote:
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>
> And where have you ever seen Hawking come out and
> say "I'm smart"?
>
> If you think these folks don't have a clue, proven
> them wrong. That's the way science works.

Meep, lighten up buddy and stop being a stick in the mudd. I'm being quasi serious here.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've asked the same question. At a cost of app $5
> billion what will be our return? maybe we will
> find out how to manipulate sub atomic particles to
> some benefit? Who knows. It is possible that given
> enough power they may be able to create "mini"
> black holes.
>
> Highly improbable they'll find the answer to the
> modern "dark matter" theory but if they wind up
> bending time and space we could be talking "time
> machine".

I'm sure people felt the same way about electricity or the telephone at first.

I seriously doubt that anybody but the people actually working there and their scientific peers have a clue what's really going on. Us feebs can understand the concept of "smashing atoms at really high speeds to see what happens," but I just don't think we have the insight or knowledge to understand the potential applications. Not even me, who knows everything about everything.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

mcsmack Wrote:
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> I've asked the same question. At a cost of app $5
> billion what will be our return?




I don't know where CERN gets every cent of their funding, but don't say "our return" as if they are obligated to provide Mcsmack with a cost-benefit analysis. It's not your money.

What has amazed me, is that the vast majority of new discoveries quickly move from their intended hopes/purpose to being used as a weapon of some sort.

I am not really versed in a lot of science or what paths it has taken in modern times...I defer to those "in the know" to come up with some examples of the "break-through to weapon" syndrome I mentioned above...

The obvious, and I would guess most well known, is the splitting of the atom --- Atomic Bomb.

Any others from the scientifically gifted, or informed, out there?

A Minor Threat

postpoppunk Wrote:
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> What has amazed me, is that the vast majority of
> new discoveries quickly move from their intended
> hopes/purpose to being used as a weapon of some
> sort.
>
> I am not really versed in a lot of science or what
> paths it has taken in modern times...I defer to
> those "in the know" to come up with some examples
> of the "break-through to weapon" syndrome I
> mentioned above...
>
> The obvious, and I would guess most well known, is
> the splitting of the atom --- Atomic Bomb.
>
> Any others from the scientifically gifted, or
> informed, out there?




Actually the research that went into the atomic bomb led directly to the development of the electron microscope, which has greatly advanced medicine over the decades.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2011 09:21PM by eesh.

God is real

eesh Wrote:
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> Actually the research that went into the atomic
> bomb led directly to the development of the
> electron microscope, which has greatly advanced
> medicine over the decades.

Cool - I should have included positive advances also...but again, that was AFTER the development of the weapon.

Beyond espionage, I do not think that the telephone (you can give the scientific term associated with it) has ever really been modified into a weapon.

A Minor Threat

postpoppunk Wrote:
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> What has amazed me, is that the vast majority of
> new discoveries quickly move from their intended
> hopes/purpose to being used as a weapon of some
> sort.
>
> I am not really versed in a lot of science or what
> paths it has taken in modern times...I defer to
> those "in the know" to come up with some examples
> of the "break-through to weapon" syndrome I
> mentioned above...
>
> The obvious, and I would guess most well known, is
> the splitting of the atom --- Atomic Bomb.
>
> Any others from the scientifically gifted, or
> informed, out there?

Irrelevant. There have also been a lot of significant advancements that started from military applications. Plus, the large hadron collider is about 17 miles around. Pretty hard to miniaturize that into a bomb.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
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> Irrelevant.


What I posted is not "irrelevant" in any way, shape or form...

It was, and is, an OBSERVATION that is factual.

It was not a mandate against science, I did not even read the link.

For something to be irrelevant, it would need to be measured against something else, or to some standard line of thinking...my statement was not and is a generalization of an OBJECTIVE OBSERVATION.






Meph - I know you still have the unearned, undeserved and unwarranted fantasies of being somehow superior to most, but I can assure you that in my case --- you will fall very short.

I have ran your sorry "puppy-dog" ass out of here once (Along with that cunt GordonBlvd)..lets be civil this time so you can enjoy some time here on FFXU.

A Minor Threat



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2011 10:19PM by postpoppunk.

postpoppunk Wrote:
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> I have ran your sorry "puppy-dog" ass out of here
> once (Along with that cunt GordonBlvd)..lets be
> civil this time so you can enjoy some time here on
> FFXU.

LOL! You're still stupid.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

postpoppunk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Meph - I know you still have the unearned,
> undeserved and unwarranted fantasies of being
> somehow superior to most, but I can assure you
> that in my case --- you will fall very short.
>
> I have ran your sorry "puppy-dog" ass out of here
> once (Along with that cunt GordonBlvd)..lets be
> civil this time so you can enjoy some time here on
> FFXU.


I like this guy.

So say they do find evidence of the Higgs boson and can then prove Peter Higgs theory that this particle gives everything its mass. Then what? What type of advances could be made with this information?

BB*X Wrote:
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> So say they do find evidence of the Higgs boson
> and can then prove Peter Higgs theory that this
> particle gives everything its mass. Then what?
> What type of advances could be made with this
> information?


The applications are basically unknown. Just as the discovery of electricity had no immediate application. There was no way for them to know that electricity would be used to power iPhones, start car engines, broadcast TV signals, etc. etc.

I dont frequent FFU very often anymore, for obvious reasons, so I was surprised to find a thread like this. Good to see an interesting thread. I would say Meeper has it right, but I'll add that the advances made by discovering the Higgs are unimaginable at this point. Before anything discovered can be used, it has to be harnessed and controlled, which is a long way away.

The first thing that comes to my mind is matter transfer (think Star Trek transporter). Knowing how matter is constructed is the first step in storage, transfer and restoring.
I also think what they learn from this could help in discovering new forms of energy (food, electrical or otherwise).

The Higgs boson may also give a glimpse into time and how things began. One of the main purposes of CERN is to understand how we got here.

Numbers I too don't visit this site much anymore...occasional lurk...but that's neither here nor there.

McSmack - good post - though I disagree we have reached the limits of our knowledge there is so much we still do not know. But this is nonetheless a profound step in science. Even say with the so called god particle there is so little we actually know and only suppositional at that - should be interested to bear out.

Britdrnva~ Wrote:
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> Numbers I too don't visit this site much
> anymore...occasional lurk...but that's neither
> here nor there.
>
> McSmack - good post - though I disagree we have
> reached the limits of our knowledge there is so
> much we still do not know. But this is
> nonetheless a profound step in science. Even say
> with the so called god particle there is so little
> we actually know and only suppositional at that -
> should be interested to bear out.

In 50 years people will take for granted technology we don't fully understand now. Same with this generation's elderly and computers.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
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> In 50 years people will take for granted technology we don't fully understand now. Same with this generation's elderly and computers.

+1

mcsmack is some stupid fuckin old guy

Britdrnva~ Wrote:
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> Numbers I too don't visit this site much
> anymore...occasional lurk...but that's neither
> here nor there.
>
> McSmack - good post - though I disagree we have
> reached the limits of our knowledge there is so
> much we still do not know. But this is
> nonetheless a profound step in science. Even say
> with the so called god particle there is so little
> we actually know and only suppositional at that -
> should be interested to bear out.

Point taken. However I did say "we may have reached our limits." I should have said "We may be getting close to reaching our limits."

Theoretically we should be able to infinitely divide particles.It has always amazed me how we can look out at the universe inconceivably with no end. We must also look in at matter the same way. Subatomic matter with no end. We should be able to look in as far as we can look out theoretically.

Theoretically there will always be something to discover.

Right now it seems nature will never allow us interstellar or galactic travel.Current technology through gravitational assists, e.t.a.would be 19,000 years to the Alpha Centauri star system. By the time we arrived the human race could be extinct

Nuclear Pulse Propulsion theoretically could reduce travel time to 85 years.

It seems insurmountable looking outward and forward. I'm saying ultimate subatomic exploration is just as challenging. People make the mistake of thinking since it is in the laboratory, capturing the science of creating matter is more likely.

There are obstacles just as large in subatomic particle exploration as in interstellar.

Regardless the more we discover through efforts like CERN the more it seems to confirm existence of matter alone is miraculous. Let alone life.

Good to see you post again! People have been asking about you.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2011 11:02AM by mcsmack.

nomatopoeias Wrote:
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> God is real


Cool story bro

In no way could we consider this to be the "god" particle. It's nothing but an experiment that will answer questions. We can only make assumptions or educated guesses about the history of the universe. Our knowledge bottlenecks with our current body/brain structure that only allows us to be conscious to a certain amount of knowledge. The actual structure of the universe may not make sense to us, and trying to make any sense of it may push us further apart from the truth.

I don't believe even god, itself, has discovered the universe itself. God is a form of intelligence, since we assume "it" makes judgement, and causes reactions with reason. So within existence god is a creation itself. Only difference between god and us is the amount of knowledge we consume versus "it".

Firrat Wrote:
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> Our knowledge bottlenecks with our
> current body/brain structure that only allows us
> to be conscious to a certain amount of knowledge.




Please tell me you don't believe in transhumanism.

> In no way could we consider this to be the "god" particle.

They're not referring to it as "god" in a theistic sense. It's just an expression.

eesh Wrote:
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> Firrat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Our knowledge bottlenecks with our
> > current body/brain structure that only allows
> us
> > to be conscious to a certain amount of
> knowledge.
>
>
>
>
> Please tell me you don't believe in transhumanism.

First time hearing about it. I Googled it, and it sounds interesting. It's a group of people who want to help advance achieve greater biological structure. of the human race, with today's knowledge.

Doctors, researchers, Engineers, etc. could be considered to be trans humanists.

TheMeeper Wrote:
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> > In no way could we consider this to be the
> "god" particle.
>
> They're not referring to it as "god" in a theistic
> sense. It's just an expression.

The religious believe that we're going too far, and that we are crossing the line with God. I don't believe we have gone far enough, and that we are lagging behind the knowledge curve as a race.

Firrat Wrote:
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>
> The religious believe that we're going too far,
> and that we are crossing the line with God.

Religious people are pretty stupid when it comes to comprehending the real world and should be treated as fools.

Firrat Wrote:
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> The religious believe that we're going too far,
> and that we are crossing the line with God. I
> don't believe we have gone far enough, and that we
> are lagging behind the knowledge curve as a race.


Where exactly is "the line" with God? Didn't we do that a long time ago at the tree of knowledge?

"This is God speaking!! You people are becoming too intelligent and need to be punished. I've told you a thousand times to stay dumb and worship me, but you just didn't listen. I think another great flood is in order. This time Noah will be replaced with the Westboro Baptist people and Pat Robertson. Everyone else will suffer and die. Hahahhahahahahah!!"

Thou shalt not exceed 4 teraelectronvolts.

- God

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Firrat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > The religious believe that we're going too far,
> > and that we are crossing the line with God.
>
> Religious people are pretty stupid when it comes
> to comprehending the real world and should be
> treated as fools.

I'm religious or believe in God and I don't think we can go far enough in scientific discovery. God gave us our inquisitive nature and wants the individual to attain the highest levels of knowledge possible. It actually is our duty. "To whom much is given, much is expected".

I only draw the lines morally concerning issues respecting the life he has given us. For example harvesting fetal stem cells for research. There are better methods than to assume we are no different than all other life forms on earth and hacking away at the most innocent among us. Wild animals eat their young, we should not.

mcsmack Wrote:
> I'm religious or believe in God and I don't think we can go far enough in scientific discovery

Your religion (assuming it's Abrahamic) tells you that god created everything in the universe in 6 days; something that is easily refuted by science. The very nature of scientific discovery disproves what you claim to believe in.

mcsmack Wrote:
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> I only draw the lines morally concerning issues
> respecting the life he has given us. For example
> harvesting fetal stem cells for research.

How do you know that God isn't up there tearing His Holy Hair out in frustration over the fact that He gave us the intelligence to utilize stem cells to help humanity, only to have frauds and charlatans tell us that it's against His Will? It still amazes me how anybody can pretend to know His thoughts on a particular subject.

> Wild animals eat their young, we should not.

Who's eating babies? Who's eating stem cells, for that matter?

Which is worse: an abortion where the fetus is just thrown away like a cancerous tumor, or an abortion where cells are harvested that could save the life of someone that one day cures AIDS?

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Which is worse: a Jew thrown into the oven like garbage, or a Jew whose body parts are harvested that could save the life of someone that one day cures AIDS?

Peter Singer Wrote:
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> Which is worse: a Jew thrown into the oven like
> garbage, or a Jew whose body parts are harvested
> that could save the life of someone that one day
> cures AIDS?

Are you comparing the legal act of abortion in modern-day America to the illegal genocide of millions during ethnic cleansing under a fascist German government around seventy years ago? Seriously?

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Peter Singer Wrote:
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> Which is worse: a Jew thrown into the oven like
> garbage, or a Jew whose body parts are harvested
> that could save the life of someone that one day
> cures AIDS?


^ anonymous Glenn Beck post